WEBVTT - Oracle, OpenAI End Plans to Expand Flagship Data Center 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:13.680 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.520 from coast to coast, with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:22.599 and VLA low into San Francisco. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.680 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.560 I RAN chooses its new leader as the conflict spreads 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.440 further and sends oil prices jumping us. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.840 Oracle and OpenAI won't expand a flagship Texas data center 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.040 to two gigawatts. Oracle maintains the BIGAI buildout as intact. 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.360 An n Scale raises two billion dollars in new funding, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.160 valuing the UK based AI data center developer at fourteen 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:47.720 zero point six billion dollars. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.680 But we start ed just broadening the scope of the 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.959 market that we look at. At the moment, we're down 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.760 four tens percent. We are off of our lows and 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.520 the NASBAK one hundred. But once again, the conflict with 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.480 the Middle East, the fact that we're and what with 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.279 the RAN and that continues is still walking markets. We're 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.760 currently up ten percent when you're looking at New York crewed. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:07.679 If we're looking at Brent at one point and it 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.520 clicks one hundred and twenty dollars a barrel, there is 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.680 clear fear consuming asset classes that have lost that's six 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.640 trillion since the beginning of the conflict, and therefore we 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.039 want to bring in Bloomberg Washington correspondent Tyler Kendall for 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.039 a little bit more set the scene. What happened a 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.440 new leader and continuing barrage. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.120 Yeah, Hey Caroline, good morning. While at the moment, it 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.560 doesn't seem like there is any let up when it 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.880 comes to the conflict, and that a diplomatic off ramp 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.959 isn't on the table at the moment. In fact, we 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.920 heard from President Trump over the weekend threatening to widen 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.440 the war. In a post on truth Social he said 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.399 that the US was looking to expand its list of 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.160 targets as the President maintains that he is quote not 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.720 happy with the new Supreme Leader that has been chosen. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.400 Analysts say that the fact that the sun of the 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.280 late Supreme Leader is now the new one indicates that 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.480 the regime is going to continue its hardline stance. In fact, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.200 we heard from Iranian state media over the weekend after 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.920 the pick that the government maintains that it has enough 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.480 weapons stockpiles to sustain a high intensity conflict for the 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.079 next six months and that Iran will start to deploy 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.679 more advanced and longer range weapons. Of course, this is 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.680 all contributing to questions about the timeline here and what 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.360 will be sustained disruptions when it comes to the oil 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.840 market caroline. As you know, earlier this morning G seven 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.520 finance ministers had met, but the potential to tap a 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:33.720 coordinated release of strategic reserves. Ultimately French France's finance minister 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.000 came out and said that the group of countries was 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.160 not there yet, but the option still remains on the table. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.280 Tyler, the story in markets, stocks and bonds slide, but 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.320 really it's oil. Right, You either look at Brent or 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.480 West Texas. What's the President had to say about what 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.720 is happening in oil markets as a result of the 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:57.480 conflict in Iran. You know, energy affordability, oil prices a 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.040 thing central to his platform. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.000 Right, you're really threading the needle there, ed, because at 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.799 this point President Trump has downplayed the oil spike, telling 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.960 Americans to be patient and that ultimately it's not going 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.560 to be long sustained. We heard from the Energy Secretary 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.560 over the weekend in an interview saying that this is 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.000 not a long term conflict and other US officials have 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.040 said that this is going to be a short term 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.320 disruption in order for the long term gain of achieving 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.160 the US's objectives when it comes to Iran. Still, we 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.320 know that the White House has been trying to reassure 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.079 Americans when it comes to the economy before this conflict 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.080 even happened, and now as we see those higher prices 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.560 trickle down to retail gasoline, that's putting the White House 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.960 on the defense. Now our understanding is the administration is 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.560 looking at some potential options to help domestic consumers. There 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.840 had been reporting that the White House was set to 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.760 ask Congress for a gas tax holiday to help lower prices, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.480 but we haven't really seen that emerge either. It appears 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.560 that the Administration has taken off the table for now 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.600 tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reservement questions about its REPS punishment, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.040 which was really at this point leaving the administration to 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.320 have to reassure Americans that this ultimately is going to 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.520 be worth the long term success of the military campaign 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.240 and broader peace in the Middle East. 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.359 The President calling one hundred dollars oil a small price 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.240 to pay in the context of getting the war completed. 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.920 Bloomberg Stylo Kendl with the latest from DC Oil surges 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.320 past one hundred dollars as Saudi Arabia begins cutting production, 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.440 with storage facilities nearing capacity amid disruptions tied to the 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.760 straight of fuel moves, according. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:33.080 To a source. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.880 For more, let's talk about global energy the upheaval. Julianne Edwards, 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.560 the nuclear company chief development officer, is with us. So this, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.080 as Tyler put it, is a difficult need order thread 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.800 as well, because you know, long term you're going to 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.720 say that the war in Iram puts a spotlight on 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.200 American energy security. But you also have a firm grasp 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.160 with the data, right So tell us what you on 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.760 your desk are seeing right now in terms of oil 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.800 disruption and oil supply, and then we'll get to. 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:00.560 The UCULO part. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.599 Good morning and happy to see you guys this morning 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.599 from our nation's capital. Yes, we are watching the oil 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.599 prices continue to escalate. Our hope is that this will 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.839 have only an indirect effect for a short period of 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.040 time and that we will start to see resolution and 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:15.800 i RAN soon. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.760 But that being said, these are long term. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.800 Decision makings that occur with these infrastructure projects. And so 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.120 the fact is is that these disruptions that we're seeing 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.320 from these geopolitical tensions are going to have a direct 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.640 impact on our energy prices are oil and gas prices domestically, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.520 and why it's so critical to continue to invest domestically 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.280 in onshore capabilities related to baseload energy, related to on 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.720 shoring and manufacturing so that we're less vulnerable to these 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:45.640 market disruptions that can help it overseas. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.640 There's a note out there this morning from Jeffreys saying 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:53.599 that despite the sort of volatility and uncertainty, clients should 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.200 be encouraged to continue to stick with clean tech, you know, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.720 renewable tech stocks in that in that instance, do you 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.839 take a sort of reputational hit in the environment like 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.800 this for your industry when there is such a microfocus 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:08.239 on oil. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.040 I'm seeing the actual a pivot towards understanding the importance 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:14.880 of reliability and dependability. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:16.800 Nuclear energy has long. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:21.200 Been a backbone of our electricity system and producing electrons 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.919 for ninety to ninety five percent of the time, so 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.120 almost twenty four to seven power, and I'm seeing that 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.159 there's more of an understanding and an informative set of 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.600 policy making and tied to that versus its clean air attributes. 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.560 But it is no secret that nuclear energy is a 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:36.680 zero carbon. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.920 Source of electrons, but it is a base load source 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.200 that is dependable for sixty eighty years. And we're hoping 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.880 that this administration will continue to a push to investing 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.280 more into that infrastructure so that we can continue to 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.760 be resilient to times like these. 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:49.480 Jdian. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.680 How quickly can that sort of energy get online? Because 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:58.040 you're thinking about how currently useful technology can be deployed, 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.240 how currently useful is any that is an United States. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.080 These are long term capital projects. 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.279 I mean you're thinking you're looking at roughly two to 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.400 four years for pre development and then roughly a five 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.760 to eight year built cycle before you can put electrons 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.720 on the grid. But we're seeing in China that they're 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.400 able to build nuclear power plants in roughly seven years, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.080 and so the United States needs needs to keep up 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.680 and ensure that we continue to invest streamline regulatory and 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.800 that's actually why I'm here in our nation's capital today 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.040 at the Regulatory Information Conference, where we're seeing a strong 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.800 push and delivering on this administration's executive orders to have 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.600 more sensible regulations when it comes to nuclear energy. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.280 Go there about the seven years in China? Is that 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.000 just a quicker turnaround in terms of getting the ability 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.440 the capability of putting it in certain jurisdictions. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.360 Basically, the regulatory sign off is faster. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:50.480 That's a large component. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.400 You need to have sensible policy making and regulations that 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.560 are applied to these. You also have to have premier 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.000 locations that have access to water and. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.960 To the grid. And in China that's very much state 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:01.760 backed program. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.560 We're in the United States, it's a little bit government endorsed, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.600 but its industry led. And so we're seeing this administration 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.600 extend things like the investment tax credits, the production tax credits, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.160 and extending the timeline from the Loan Program Office. 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:15.920 These are all great things that are going to. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.480 Enable the industry to keep up with China and making 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.440 sure that we maintain our nuclear dominance. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.680 In October, we got an eighty billion dollar deal for 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.080 nuclear Right, you are a company that wants to develop 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.480 nuclear reactors. In fact, you're one of the name's few 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.920 names that wants to actually go out and develop a 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.839 big nuclear plant. What progress have you made on that? 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.320 What details can you share? And again in the context 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.439 of what's happening with the war in Iran, how is 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.800 that impacting your ability to execute on it. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.880 Our company has been laser focused on building the bench 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.679 strength and capability, a muscle that our country actually has 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.960 lost since we have not built any new reactors in 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.280 thirty years, with exception to the two plants down in Georgia. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:00.920 So we've been focusing on all the front and loading 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:06.400 activities required for megaprojects, so citing and characterizing land, making 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.440 sure that we're building out our governance, structure and capability set, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.000 especially working with the government closely and also working with 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.719 the design firms those design reactors like the ge and 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:17.839 Westinghouse of the world. 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.839 You've talked about US energy security, talked about how we're 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.240 seeing China revolve. Talked about Europe for a minute here 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.920 because it's interesting on this day. They're pitching an infrastructure 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.720 fund at the moment and billions in terms of almost 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.880 eight hundred and three billion dollars equivalent to try and 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.120 speed up their own infrastructure, maying it clean and make 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.160 it more effective. But how much we see in Europe ever, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:39.880 thinking more about nuclear. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.640 We're seeing a large uptick in activity in nuclear in Europe, 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.600 and I think what's driving a lot of that is 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:50.640 recognizing that national security and energy security are interconnected. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:52.920 We saw this really unfold as. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.440 They become became more vulnerable during the Ukraine War and 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.520 their overdependence on Russian gas started to create our abilities 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:01.120 in their system. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.440 So they want to make sure that they have their. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.840 Domestic manufacturing capability set for their own energy infrastructure and 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.679 less dependent on neighboring nations. So I think we're going 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:14.280 to see a rapid incline of building nuclear infrastructure in Europe, 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.160 especially Eastern Europe, and even in the Nordics. We're seeing 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:22.000 a large amount of activity eyeing to US technology wondering 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:23.840 when will our technology, if you're writing. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.800 And how quickly can we export that to those countries. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.959 Juliana Edwards of the Nuclear Company, thank you so much 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.600 for joining us today from DC. Meanwhile, coming up Ora 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.160 Cool Open AI have scrapped plans to expand the Stargate 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.720 Data Center project. We'll have the details of why and 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.160 what comes next up in the break. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.080 Is it a break? This is blit a beg tech. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.960 We have some breaking us crossing the Bloomberg terminal. Anthropic 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.079 has sued the Defense Department over being labeled a supply 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.440 chain risk red headline. Anthropic has sued the Defense Department 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.880 over being labeled supply chain risk, which happened at the 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.719 end of last week. You'll remember that we had reported 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.520 ongoing negotiations between Dario Amma Day, the CEO of and Thropic, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.080 and the Pentagon and Department of Defense and basically what 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.280 our redlines around Thropic in how their technology is used 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.080 throughout the hour. Carra, I'm sure we'll get more when 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.480 we have for somebody able to come to set and 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.040 we get more details in the suits filing, But that 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.040 is the headline for now. Another story that we are 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.160 across and working on, Oracle and open Ai won't expand 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.720 their flagship Texas data center from one point two gigawatts 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.960 to two gigawatts after negotiations stalled over financing and shifting 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.280 computing needs. Bloomberg reported that story on Friday. The existing 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.080 campus is still being built, an Oracle's broader agreement to 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.160 develop four point five gigawats of data center capacity for 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.200 open Ai remains on track. Developer Cruso is now seeking 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.640 a tenant for the shelved expansion, with Meta in talks 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:04.199 Nvidia helping facilitate discussions the most Brady Ford part of 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:05.800 the team that broake the story. A lot of names 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.320 in there, but that's the basics of it, right. There 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.040 was an expansion due to take place one point two 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.560 gig watts. Our understanding is it's not happening. The other details, As. 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.200 You said, it's a lot of names involved here, And 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.200 what this story really shows is that so much money 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.320 is tied up in these huge data center projects that 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.760 require some pretty tight logistics. In this specific case, the 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.280 flagship Stargate data center, they are going to expand it further. 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.800 Whether the negotiations had dragged on for months and months 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.120 and eventually Oracle and OI decided that they're not going 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:39.840 to take this additional capacity. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.680 Brady, what has Open AI and indeed Oracle's response been 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.880 to your reporting about how deeply aligned they are on 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:50.360 continuing to build infrastructure. 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.520 The message we've essentially received is that their overall work 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.800 together is still on track, and that is also our understanding. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.800 What is it in your regional story? Exactly? Yeah, please 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.480 carry on, yeah, exactly. 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.200 But I think what's interesting is just looking at, you know, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.360 how do these projects actually play out? 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:10.559 Right? 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.199 The big contract is there, but certain sites that they 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.880 thought they wanted maybe they don't. Right, and you think 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.479 about all the capital that's tied up in these projects, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.920 it's interesting to see how these are going to progress. 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.160 Most Bradie forward across that reporting along with Ed Ludlow 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:27.240 brilliant scoop. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:28.080 Thank you very much. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.680 Let's stick on oracle on the global race to build 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.480 out data centers with Anna Rathman, CEO of Grenadilla Advisory, 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.360 and talk to us about whether or not these sorts 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.520 of stories about the difficulty of actually ensuring you're building 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.840 where you want it, when you want it, it affects 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.080 the overall investment attitude you have towards the data center 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:46.560 build out. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:49.000 Hi, good morning. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.839 You know these are the type of stories that would 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.559 make the private credit investors a little bit nervous, right 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.920 because our private credit has been really into the infrastructure 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.320 bill out, the big players have been. But if there's 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.880 are hiccups like this where what you intended doesn't actually happen, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.160 of course meta may be coming in maybe a different story, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.920 but certainly what happens to your collateral, what happens to 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.400 the project? Is it going to keep going? I mean 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.880 this situation is different. But if it happens again, these 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.080 are the things that make people take a step back 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.040 and take a look at the private credit again. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.320 And certainly that has an impact on certain stocks like Well, Blue, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.240 Oul and others that are very much dependent on the 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.400 private credit story. But how much does it affect the 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.600 Oracle story. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.000 Oh, I think it impacts the Oracle story as well. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.080 I think this is the type of news that can 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:46.840 actually have investors actually stop because we're hearing about six 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.360 hundred and fifty billion dollars going into these AI projects, right, 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.240 and we haven't heard of big hiccups like this in 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.760 big names in Oracle and Open AI, and so I 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.120 think people will stopped, be stopping and taking a look 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.840 whether or not this is going to be a more 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.880 widespread thing, right, because there are data centers being built 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.320 everywhere and in some minds indiscriminately, right, So we may 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.400 be hearing more of this, and we may be hearing 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.000 of investors taking a pause. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.920 The macro point, right, is that there's so much money 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.400 tied up in what is something very complex to achieve 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:24.920 in terms of the build out. By the way, over 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.920 the weekend prior to the Oracle post, on x. The 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.160 Open AI executive whose response for infrastructure also posts and 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.160 explained they are not proceeding with the expansion there because 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.920 they put the resources into other sites, just as Brody 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.280 had explained in his reporting. But a part of it 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.920 is that capital tied up. I mean, do you see 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.680 that kind of anxiety focus on capital expenditures, focus on 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.520 the credit that's underpinning all of these projects. 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:52.280 Yeah, I mean there would be. 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.840 But I mean if you're worried about private credit, you 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.120 should also be worried about some of the equity that 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.080 is being tied up, right, I mean, we have to 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.320 think about the cap structure. This is we're I mean, 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.720 I keep saying, we're still in the nascent part of 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.440 AI development, even in the infrastructure part, which is why 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.920 the spend is so high. So it actually makes sense 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.520 that companies can change their minds and perhaps say, Okay, 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.840 we don't need this here anymore. Perhaps we're putting our 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.120 assets over there, and sometimes investors can remain stranded. So 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.080 I just think that this is part of the story 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.080 of being very very early in the AI story. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.520 One of the considerations of the market this morning as 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.800 it relates to Iran, is just generally, what will happen 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:41.560 with inflation across everything, energy, materials. You know, that to 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.920 me would really seem to be a factor when you're 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.520 building out massive infrastructure, data center infrastructure across the country, 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.480 to people start to remodel the costs of everything going 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:52.400 into this build out. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.880 You know, I think it's too early. I mean it's 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.200 been you know, eight nine days of war. The Trump 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.800 administrations says that it's going to be short term. I 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.080 don't know what that actually means. Does that mean a 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.000 few weeks, a few months, a few days. It is 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.560 sort of a wait and see thing. You know, Kinetic 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.760 war is completely unpredictable because you have people making decisions 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.760 out of existential fear. Right, So it could be tomorrow, 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.280 it could be, you know, several weeks from now. So 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.840 I think it's a little too early to be pricing 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.439 in such high inflation and maybe making changes to the 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.680 underwriting process and the models. It really is a wait 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.680 and see, maybe sometimes even by the hour. 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.000 Anna Rothband of Grende Dillar Advisory, thank you very much. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.840 Coming up next, we have more details on Anthropics suing 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.160 the Defense Department to carry You're also looking at other names. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.800 And other legal news, shares of Live Nation actually pushing 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.719 high on five point six percent. This is its ticket 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.920 Master subsidiary, along with Live Nation, have reached a settlement 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:53.719 with the federal anti trust authorities. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.840 The dj have been saying this Monday. It kind of. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.359 Throws a bit of a wrench in to this mid 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.439 trial of an anti trust case. It accuse the company, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.680 remember of illegally monopolizing the lie music industry. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:07.080 As a Bloomberg Tech. 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:19.240 Back to the breaking news just moments ago, Anthropic is 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.959 suing the Defense Department after it was labeled a supply 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.960 chain risk, a designation usually reserved for foreign advasarys. Let's 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.840 get to our AI editor Bloomberg Seth Figureman for more, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.480 and actually, what it is that Entropics challenging, it would 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.600 appear from the suits, is the Department's decision to shift 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:38.120 the contracts to others. 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:38.680 Essentially. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.359 Yeah, and what we're hearing from Anthropic here in a 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.200 statement as they're taking this step to protect their customers 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.159 and their business. At the same time, though, they're telling 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.560 us that they intend to pursue all avenues here to 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.440 track immediate this relationship with the government, including direct conversation 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.399 with the government. So they're not foreclosing the continuation and 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.560 talks here, but they are still pursuing litigation. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.919 These actions are unprecedented and unlawful, the company said in 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.280 the complaint that was filed over in San Francisco Federal court, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.480 and they say the constitution does not allow for the 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.080 government to wield its enormous power to punish a company 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.520 for its protected speech. What's been so extraordinary is the 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.920 way in which anthropobists continue to speak out against the government. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.600 Dario Amade basically told us already he was going to 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:26.120 go and do this. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:26.600 That's right. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.200 Yeah, they're clearly being outspoken and taking a stand on 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.200 this issue here. They're not just taking this sitting down. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.679 But it's clear behind the scenes that the tone might 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.720 be a little bit different privately, but they're looking for 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.639 a resolution. They're also not looking to just take this, 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:39.920 you know, sitting down. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.200 A part of what's happened in parallel stef in recent 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.520 days is that, you know, Open AI has negotiated with 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.439 the Department of Defense, you know, basically to come in, 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.199 do we know what the status quo is now, what 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.520 the latest is in where the department stands on its 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.440 AI tool policy, and who it's using. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.560 Yeah, I mean, the last we've heard is has been 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.560 seeking additional protections and safeguards for some of the same 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:07.320 concerns that Anthropic I previously raised publicly and privately. We 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.560 don't know yet if the Pentagon has agreed to all 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.200 those provisions, but it does seem that the tenor of 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.880 the debate between Opening AI and the Defense Department has 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.520 been much more civil in some respects and what we've 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:19.280 seen with Anthropic. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.560 But what about the reporting of how this is affecting 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.199 those that work for the businesses. A lot of these 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.199