1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of child 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: sexual abuse and attempted suicide. Please listen with caution and care. 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: Jason, we talk a lot about false confessions, and we 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: know how and why they happen. Is there a scenario 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 2: in which you would willfully confess to a crime like 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: a murder. 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 3: Well, I can envision the scenario which I would confess 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 3: to a murder that I didn't commit, and that would 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: be if I became so disoriented, scared, confused, lonely, and 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 3: just terrified of the people who we all believe are 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 3: there to protect us and to help us and to 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 3: find the truth when they turn on you. Sometimes people 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: see it as their only way out of that impossible situation. 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: And you're in that room and you're like, I don't 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: want to die, and maybe this will get sorted out 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: because I know I didn't do it. 17 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 4: And he kept saying, well, if you sign this, i'll 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 4: let you go home, and so I was like, but 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 4: this is not what happened. So we get me to 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 4: the chair and he hit me with a phone book 21 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 4: to wake me up. 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 5: He's like, sign this and we will. 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 4: Let you go. 24 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 5: I signed a paper and I never left prison. 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 6: From Love of for Good. 26 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today Sylvia Boykin. 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: On May fifteenth, nineteen ninety two, Sylvia Boykin went to 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: collect a drug debt from a woman named Burnetta Pope. 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Sylvia showed up at the house in North Philadelphia with 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: two men, Lamont Antoine Blackman, and Aaron Major. Burnetta owed 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Sylvia money, who in turn owed Antoine and Aaron as 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: well as other men who were higher up in the 33 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: drug network. But Burnetta was late in pain, so Sylvia 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: brought Antoine and erin to prove that she was trying 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: her best to obtain the debt. But things went horribly 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: wrong when they got there. Burnetta and her son Albert, 37 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: refused to pay. Exactly what happened next we may never know, 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: but gunfire erupted and Burnetta Pope was shot dead. Sylvia 39 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: was quickly arrested, charged and convicted of first degree murder. 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 6: But Sylvia did not shoot anybody. 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 5: I went there with no one chitches that no one 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 5: would get killed. I didn't kill anyone. I didn't order 43 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 5: for anyone to get killed. 44 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 4: I'm Sylvia Boaken, I'm sixty three, I'll be sixty four 45 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 4: in two days, and here I said thirty one years 46 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 4: later in a prison. 47 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: Sylvia Boykin was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on May twenty sixth, 48 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight. 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 6: She's the youngest of six kids. 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 4: So when I was born, all my sisters were grown 51 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 4: and they were having babies, so I grew up with 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 4: my nieces and nephews. 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: On the surface, Sylvia's life seemed great. She went to 54 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: Magnet Schools for kids with high IQs, and when she graduated, 55 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: she moved to Virginia for college, where she studied data 56 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: entry and medical administrative assistance. She had a good job 57 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: at the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond, Virginia was on 58 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: her way to greatness. But Sylvia wound up on a 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: different path, one of substance abuse and addiction. 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 5: Somewhere inside of me, I was running. 61 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 4: God always had his hands on me, but I was running, 62 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 4: and I was trying to I was trying to find 63 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 4: something to fix the pain because I was hurt, like 64 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: very bad, which is a really tough subject for me. 65 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: Sylvia's inner trauma and suffering it started when she was 66 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: a child and her grandfather sexually assaulted her. 67 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 4: He didn't actually like have sex with me, to penetrate 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 4: me anything, but he touched me in my private area. 69 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: But that was just like the beginning, you know, of 70 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 4: things that happened in my life. 71 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 5: As a child. 72 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: Then, at ten years old, she was raped by her 73 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: nineteen year old brother. 74 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 4: I had to go to the hospital, and I was 75 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 4: a very young girl, and at that time I was 76 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 4: stitched up, and I was told by my mother and 77 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 4: not to tell the police who did it because that 78 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 4: they would arrest my brother. 79 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: The assault and rape, plus the fact that her family 80 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: covered it all up, took a huge. 81 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 6: Toll on Sylvia. 82 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 4: After I was raped by my brother, I took my 83 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 4: mother's sleeping hills. 84 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 5: I tried to kill myself when I was ten. Yeah, 85 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 5: I took the whole bottle. 86 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, who found you? 87 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 4: My knee's Valerie, and she's like two years younger than me. 88 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 4: She found me and she went and got my sister. 89 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: They took me to the hospital. They pumped my stomach 90 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 4: and they put me in the children psych wood. 91 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: Sylvia's older sister, Teresa, was furious at the situation an 92 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: intent on making sure Sylvia would be safe going forward. 93 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: The whole family lived in a three story, do you 94 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: Sylvia lived on the first floor with her mother and brother. Well, 95 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: the rest of the family lived upstairs. Teresa lived on 96 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: the second floor. 97 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 4: She took me and wouldn't let me sleep downstairs in 98 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 4: my mother's part. She said, I couldn't stay down there. 99 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 4: She took me and so I stayed up in her 100 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 4: part until I healed up, till I got well. 101 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: And this isn't even the extent of Sylvia's suffering. Throughout 102 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: her childhood and adolescence, Sylvia was again molested numerous times 103 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: by close family friends. 104 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 5: So I went through a lot of. 105 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: Being raped and molested that I used to just go, 106 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 4: like get in the front of the church for altar 107 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: prayer and I would just stay there and pray, and 108 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 4: you know, I just wanted to like, why why did 109 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 4: these people do this to me? 110 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: Well, Sylvia's sisters tried to protect her from the sexual abuse. 111 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: Sylvia sought out coping mechanisms. 112 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 4: My sister she would she started, she would give me beer, 113 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 4: and sometimes she would give me strictest liquor called Macnoidan's 114 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: and she would give me some. 115 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: So, you know, do you think your need to escape 116 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: is kind of what led you to drug use. 117 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 4: Yes, I always felt like I needed to run away. 118 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 4: I needed to numb the pain. So I would always 119 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 4: be like the life of the party, like everybody wanted 120 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 4: like to be around me, And sometimes I think I 121 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 4: tried to ship my brain off from it. 122 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: Eventually, when she was seventeen years old, Sylvia met the 123 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: man who would become her first husband. She was motivated 124 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: to move forward past the trauma and build a normal life. 125 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: As a little girl, I'd always dream about just having 126 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 4: this beautiful home and children and a husband and just 127 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: being very happy. I used to always draw pictures like 128 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 4: that when I was little, with the sunshine and the 129 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 4: house with a talent and trees. 130 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 5: I used to always draw those pictures in school. 131 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: Sylvia ended up having three daughters, Penny, Tsha, and Kimberly. 132 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: She was seventeen and she had Penny, her oldest. Here's Penny. 133 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 7: She was reay, I would say, into our lives, meaning 134 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 7: she was you know that mom that was into you know, 135 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 7: the girl scouts, the PTA meetings. She was always you know, 136 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 7: into the family functions and you know, everything with us. 137 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: Sylvia tried her best to be a good mom and wife, 138 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: but the damage from her past experiences inevitably disrupted her 139 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: personal life. 140 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 4: I've been married four times already, but I could never maintain, 141 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 4: like keep them a marriage going. 142 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: As the distractions from her trauma became increasingly destructive, Sylvia 143 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: eventually started abusing hard drugs like crack. 144 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 6: Do you remember any of her drug use? 145 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 7: Yes, yes, I remember. She tried to keep it undercover, 146 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 7: but as me being the oldest of three girls, I 147 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 7: noticed a lot that was going on with her. 148 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: For example, Penny says she remembers late nights out and 149 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: a lot of trips in and out of the house. 150 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 7: She would be late for jobs. She would work jobs, 151 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 7: but she would be late or sometimes she would be tired, 152 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 7: and so we would have to fund for ourself. And 153 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 7: when I say fund for ourselves, get up and get 154 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 7: ready for school, I will be responsible making sure that 155 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 7: we got up for school, or making sure everything was 156 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 7: handled in the household. It was a lot because I 157 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 7: felt like it was unfair to me. And I would 158 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 7: say at that age, I had a lot of goals 159 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 7: for myself, a lot of things I wanted to do 160 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 7: out of life. I wanted to go places and do 161 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 7: things and be on my own and be able to 162 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 7: live my life. 163 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: But instead Penny would wind up permanently taking care of 164 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: her siblings. By nineteen ninety two, Sylvia was suffering from 165 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: a serious addiction to crack, and to finance her own addiction, 166 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: she was selling it for a network of street level 167 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: drug dealers. Sylvia says she sold crack to forty three 168 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: year old Burnetta Pope on a few occasions, but she 169 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: also felt sorry for Burnetta. She describes the house Burnetta 170 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: was staying in. 171 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 4: No furniture, no running water, the bathroom didn't work still 172 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 4: TV a few old cheers like Willie Nasby. I bought 173 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 4: her a sweatsuit to put on. I took food there 174 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 4: and gable food, and I had just recently met them 175 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: and they were very kind to me. 176 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: In May of nineteen ninety two, Sylvia was waiting on 177 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: seven dollars from Burnetta and then from the network, including 178 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: one of the bosses, Joseph, demanded she get the money. 179 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 5: I didn't know how the whole operation was working. 180 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 4: Allie knew that he would tell me to take stuff 181 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 4: to her and that I would go back to pick 182 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 4: up the money. 183 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: So she went to the place where she knew Burnetta 184 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: was staying. 185 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 5: I went around here to collect money for him. 186 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 4: She said that she didn't have the money and she 187 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: wasn't paying, and so I told him so. 188 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 5: The next day he told me to go back. 189 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: On May fifteenth, Sylvia smoked some crack, drank some booze, 190 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: and returned to the house. This time she brought seventeen 191 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: year old Lamont Antoine Blagman and nineteen year old Aaron Major. 192 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: These two were also part of the dealing network, and 193 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: Sylvia wanted to prove that she had actually been trying 194 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: to collect the money. She owed them all along. She 195 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: also thought their mail presence would persuade Burnetta into paying. 196 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: They all went in the same car together, Sylvia driving. 197 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: They found Brunetta at the house with a man and 198 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: her twenty six year old son, Albert. 199 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 4: I went in the house first to ask her for 200 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 4: the money. She said she wasn't going to pay the 201 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 4: money in whatever, So I went back out and I 202 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: told Anon Antoine that she said. Aaron Antoine went in 203 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 4: and I don't really know exactly what happened, but I 204 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 4: guess everybody started arguing and all I heard was a 205 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: couple of gunshots by Froze. I was scared and I 206 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 4: was like what happened, So they ran they left me. 207 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 4: I drove and when I went around the block, I 208 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 4: seen them. Then they got back in across me. 209 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: Even after what had just happened, Antoine and Aaron still 210 00:13:58,640 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: demanded their money. 211 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 5: So I went to ATM machine. 212 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 4: And I took the money out of my bank account 213 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 4: and I paid them. 214 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 6: Sylvia says she dropped them off and went home. 215 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: She had no idea the gunshots she heard were bullets 216 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: coming at the neck and leg of Burnetta Pope. This 217 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 218 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 219 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 220 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light 221 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 222 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 223 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 224 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. By the time 225 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: Sylvia got home, police were already waiting for her. They 226 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: asked her where she had been and what she knew 227 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: about her shooting. Sylvia was terrified. She denied knowing anything, 228 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: and she denied knowing Antoine and Aaron, but the police 229 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: had received word that Sylvia was at the house and 230 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a shooting. Burnetta Pope was now dead. 231 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: Her son Albert, had called nine one one and told 232 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: the police where Sylvia lived, so police knew that Sylvia 233 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: was lying and that she wasn't going to cooperate. Just 234 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: two hours after the incident, Sylvia was arrested for robbery, 235 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: reckless endangerment, and assault. When they got to the police station, 236 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: Detective Dennis Dusak questioned Sylvia about everything that transpired that night. 237 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 4: When he arrested me, he handcuffed me to a chair 238 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 4: for hours, and he kept adding to me what happened, 239 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 4: And I told him. 240 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 5: I didn't really know what happened. 241 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 4: And I was talking to him and I was scared 242 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 4: and I didn't know, you know, what to say or 243 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 4: what to do. And he wouldn't let me go to 244 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 4: the bathroom. He let me urinate on myself. 245 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: Then, she says, detective Dusak wrote out a statement for 246 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: her to sign. 247 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 4: I kept telling him I had three children at home, 248 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 4: and he kept saying, well, if you sign this, I'll 249 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 4: let you go home, and so I was like, but 250 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 4: this is not what happened. 251 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 5: So he kept me to the chair and then I 252 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 5: kept falling asleep and he hit me with a phone book. 253 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 5: There's a. 254 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 4: Paperbag phone book to wake me up. He's like, sign 255 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 4: this and we will let you go. I signed the 256 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 4: paper and I never left. 257 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: Prison after that interaction, Sylvia ended up being charged with 258 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: first degree murder on top of robbery, conspiracy, and possession 259 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: of instruments of a crime. Antoine and Aaron were also 260 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: charged with murder, robbery, and a host of other crimes. 261 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: The three of them went to trial on March twenty third, 262 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, and were all tried together. The prosecutor 263 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: was John Doyle. His argument was that Sylvia ordered Antoine 264 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: and Aaron to kill both Burnetta and her son Albert. 265 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: And Doyle developed this theory from Albert, who said that 266 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: even though she was unarmed, Sylvia ordered the hit on 267 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: their lives. 268 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 6: In fact, because it was. 269 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: Agreed that Sylvia was unarmed, Albert's statements were the main 270 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: reason prosecutors could even charge Sylvia with murder in the 271 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 1: first place. Prosecutor Doyle also presented Sylvia's signed statement, as 272 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: well as one from Aaron Major. There's no evidence that 273 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: Antoine Blackman signed a statement, but the defense council said 274 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: that the two statements that were presented were coerced. In fact, 275 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: on the stand, both Antoine and Aaron said that Sylvia 276 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: did not have a gun and did not order anyone 277 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: to shoot. 278 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 6: All three also. 279 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: Contended that Albert actually threatened them with a gun. First 280 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: forensics showed that Burnetta was shot by two different guns. 281 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: Although accounts of very the defense and prosecution agreed on 282 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: one thing. Sylvia did not have a gun and did 283 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: not shoot anyone. What was that like to see your 284 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: mom in cuffs and facing a murder trial? 285 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 6: I mean, that's I imagine it's really traumatizing. 286 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 7: Yes, it was, you know, not being able to touch 287 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 7: her or talk to her and seeing them question her. 288 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 7: And for me most because my grandmother was there and 289 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 7: at the time, my grandmother was starting to go through dementia, 290 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 7: so it was really hard. I think that was the 291 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 7: most for me watching my grandmother go through it, because 292 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 7: my grandmother would just burst out in court, just stand 293 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 7: up and scream and be like, you don't know what 294 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 7: you're doing or you don't know what you're talking about, 295 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 7: and just let my daughter go and and the things 296 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 7: that you're saying, she didn't do that, So yes, it 297 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 7: was really tough. 298 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: On April first, nineteen ninety four, Sylvia, along with Antoine 299 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: and Aaron, was convicted of first degree murder. Sixteen year 300 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: old Penny was now in charge of taking care of 301 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: her younger siblings, and it was hard. 302 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 7: I would tell friends like far as school jobs. When 303 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 7: they would asks about my mother, I would say that 304 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 7: my mother is still live in Virginia, so that did 305 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 7: not know that my mother was incarcerated. And I'm gonna 306 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 7: be honest, it was that love hate relationship. 307 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: Penny says it's been difficult to visit her mom in 308 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: prison over the years. 309 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 7: So to be honest. As a kid, we did go 310 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 7: a lot. It was a group that went up and 311 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 7: they took the children all the time. But as I 312 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 7: got older, I stopped going because I didn't like it 313 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 7: at all. I didn't like the way it felt to me. 314 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 7: I didn't like seeing my mother like that, so I 315 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 7: really didn't. I stop going a lot. 316 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: But now that she's an adult with children, Penny wants 317 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: her kids to have a relationship with their grandma, so 318 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: they visit her. 319 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 7: It's the only way for her to have a relationship 320 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 7: with them since the sac You know, she is a 321 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 7: lifer and unfortunately we grew up and we had kids 322 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 7: of our own, and that's the only way she would 323 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 7: have a bond with them and see them. 324 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Sylvia filed appeal after appeal to no avail. Neither 325 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: of her two attorneys were effective. Sylvia's trial attorney, Michael Wallace, 326 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: failed to file her appeal in a timely manner, so 327 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: he was unable to appeal to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. Eventually, 328 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: her rights to appeal were reinstated and she got a 329 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: new attorney, James Bruno, But the appeals that Bruno filed 330 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: were all denied and exhausted, leaving Sylvia very few options 331 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: for release, and Bruno had issues of his own. He 332 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: was later suspended from practicing law for violating rules of 333 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: professional conduct. Meanwhile, Antoine Blackman was released from prison on 334 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: his direct appeal in nineteen ninety seven. 335 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 8: One of the tragedies in this particular case is that 336 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 8: she never had adequate legal representation. 337 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 6: This is doctor Jill mccorkyl. 338 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 8: I'm a professor of sociology and criminology, at Villanova University, 339 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 8: and I'm also the founder and the executive director of 340 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 8: the Philadelphia Justice Project for Women and Girls. 341 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: Doctor McCorkle studies how mass incarceration intersects with gender and poverty. 342 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: She was looking into another similar case, a woman who 343 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: is not the shooter in a crime and also got 344 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: a life sentence when she came across Sylvia's case. 345 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 8: There are a number of women with similar kinds of 346 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 8: scenarios where it's the principal offender is a man. 347 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 1: She says, women are often at a unique disadvantage in 348 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: this situation. 349 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 8: They're unable to cooperate with police because usually they're scared 350 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 8: of retaliatory violence, and then you know, police and prosecutors 351 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 8: engage in a malicious prosecution. And so that's really how 352 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 8: I got to Sylvia. 353 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: Doctor mccorkyl believes that Sylvia would have and should have 354 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: been treated as a witness, and that it was Sylvia's 355 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: hesitancy to cooperate with police that got her the murder charge. 356 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: Remember when the police asked Sylvia what she knew about 357 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: the crime and if she knew Antoine and Aaron, she 358 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: said no. 359 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 4: I was scared, and I was like, what did they 360 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 4: go do something to my girls if I go tell 361 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 4: on him what happened. I was scared, like, I got 362 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 4: three girls at home that's alone, and I was afraid 363 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 4: that if I told on him, like it's something that 364 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: might happen to my daughters. 365 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: Doctor mccorkyl says that a lot of women like Sylvia, 366 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: who are vulnerable because of poverty, precarious lifestyles, drug and 367 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: alcohol abuse, and her domestic violence, are not in a 368 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: position where they can cooperate with police and prosecutors. 369 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 8: Puts them at risk. It often puts family members at risk, 370 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 8: and police and prosecutors, I'll say, I'll be as generous 371 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 8: as possible, misinterpret that hesitancy, and I think in some 372 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 8: cases honestly take that unwillingness to cooperate as an indicator 373 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 8: of criminal culpability and then hit them with elevated charges 374 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 8: to try to force their hand. And so, you know, 375 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 8: you can really look at these cases and see women 376 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 8: sort of situated between street violence and then what I 377 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 8: refer to as state violence, so that they're sort of 378 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 8: taking their chances either way. And those who are particularly 379 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 8: vulnerable to violence and retaliation are saying, all right, well, 380 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 8: you know I'm going to take my chances at trial 381 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 8: because it's better than taking my chances on the street. 382 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: Sylvia took those chances and they didn't land in her favor. 383 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: Albert's contention that Sylvia ordered the hit ended up being 384 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: her downfall, and doctor mccorky believes that Albert testified to 385 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: this because of pressure. 386 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 6: He faced at the time. 387 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: He had an open drug charge, and after he offered 388 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: up this information, he was able to plead a very 389 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: favorable and short sentence to his own case, even though 390 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: he never initially said that Sylvia ordered the shooting. But 391 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: doctor mccorky believes that Albert's testimony about Sylvia during the 392 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: trial is actually one of the most preposterous things about 393 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: Sylvia's case. 394 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 8: When Sylvia is initially arrested, she's arrested for robbery, maybe 395 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 8: simple assaul or aggravated assaults, nothing about murder. So even 396 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 8: when the police pick her up, there's no you know, 397 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 8: kind of framing of Sylvia as somehow this you know, 398 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 8: criminal master mind or street heavy ordering the execution of 399 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 8: the people in this house. Now, Albert testifies to that, 400 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 8: and I think probably does so because that's the only 401 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 8: way that prosecutors can can hook Sylvia on in any 402 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,239 Speaker 8: meaningful way. They need some kind of statement, you know, 403 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 8: going directly to her culpability. 404 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: Doctor McCorkle has studied crack cocaine markets in depth. She 405 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: says knowing their structure is key to understanding the forces 406 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: that led to Sylvia's conviction. 407 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 8: These markets are organized hierarchically and by gender. You know, 408 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 8: Sylvia is in her thirties at the time this goes down, 409 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 8: and so one of the things that prosecutors are doing 410 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 8: at trial is saying, here's this woman in her thirties 411 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 8: and she's got these two you know, teenagers, so she's 412 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 8: the adult, so therefore, you know, she must have been 413 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 8: in charge of this. But that's not how crack cocaine 414 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 8: markets work. These markets and particularly the responsibility for retaliation 415 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 8: and the responsibility for collecting debt is men's responsibility. So 416 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 8: you know, sort of gender segregation in the drug market. 417 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 8: So you know, women aren't the enforcers in these markets. 418 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 6: That's men. 419 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: Even though Antoine Blackman was eventually released from prison, doctor 420 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: mccorko believes him to be the likeliest shooter in this case. 421 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 8: The mythology on the street is, yeah, you give a 422 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 8: teenager the gun because they're not going to get as 423 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 8: lengthy a sentence as an adult Wood, Which is the 424 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 8: other reason that it's entirely plausible to me that blackman 425 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 8: is the shooter. He's the juvenile, and so that's certainly 426 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 8: not unusual. It was the norm to have a juvenile 427 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 8: be the shooter. So I can see major handing that 428 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 8: gun to blackmen. 429 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: Sylvia was left with a life without parole sentence, and 430 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: now with her appeals exhausted. 431 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 8: Where we're really left here is commutation. And I think 432 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 8: she deserves commutation on her merits, you know, without even 433 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 8: looking into the kind of specifics of all, right, well, 434 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 8: how culpable was she in this particular case. But I 435 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 8: think on her own merits, she deserves to have a 436 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 8: sentence commutation, which would release her from life in prison 437 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 8: without possibility of parole. It would allow her to go 438 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 8: home to her family. 439 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: Sylvia has made the best of her time in prison. 440 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 8: However, She's gotten, you know, multiple certifications, and she's got 441 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 8: three decades in Certainly, Sylvia has done everything that we 442 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 8: would expect someone to do over the duration of such 443 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 8: a long period of time. 444 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: Sylvia goes to church for weekly services, Bible study and prayer. 445 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: She has continued to develop her computer skills and she 446 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: studies entrepreneurship, but she especially enjoys being a certified peer specialist. 447 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 4: Train us to like sit down and to listen to people, 448 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 4: you know, so it's not like to tell them what 449 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 4: to do, but just to be listening and caring and 450 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 4: helping them to find their own answer. 451 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 5: And it makes you feel good. 452 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 4: Also, I try to help, like a lot of the 453 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 4: young people, I try to guide them. I try to 454 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 4: talk to them a lot about being here and going 455 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 4: home and making a change in their life. 456 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: Sylvia loves doing this and this is what she wants 457 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: to continue to do. Doctor McCorkle has also offered her 458 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: a position with the Philadelphia Justice Project for Women and Girls. 459 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 6: When she gets out. 460 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 8: We're going to have her be our ambassador and do 461 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 8: a lot of outreach to other incarcerated women. And certainly, 462 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 8: you know, there's there's no better expert both with respect 463 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 8: to these kinds of prosecutions, as well as you know, 464 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 8: an expert in what it means to be a woman, 465 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 8: to be a mother, to be a grandmother, Navigating decades 466 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 8: in prison. 467 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 4: I feel like after thirty one years in here that 468 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 4: I've came to know myself. I have so much that 469 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 4: I want to give back. I want to be able 470 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 4: to go out and to help young people. I want 471 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 4: to be able to tell my story that helps some 472 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 4: young girl know that no matter what happened in her life, 473 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 4: no matter if she was molested, no matter if somebody 474 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 4: you know led her down the wrong road to get 475 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 4: on drugs or to drink, that she can't change. 476 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: Sylvia is now sixty four and in declining health. Among 477 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: her ailments is psiatic nerve damage, arthritis, and herniated disks, 478 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: all of which cause her daily pain. 479 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 8: It is costing Pennsylvania taxpayers so much to lock up 480 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 8: a prison population that you know, twenty five percent of 481 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 8: them are fifty and older, and it's just incredibly expensive, 482 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 8: and so regardless of sort of where you're situated politically, 483 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 8: there's a recognition that we have got to get aging 484 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 8: people out of prison. 485 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: While Sylvia knows she's not directly responsible for Brunetta's death, 486 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: she still feels regret over what happened. 487 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 5: And I'm just so so sorry everyone that I heard 488 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 5: for a paid that I cost. 489 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 9: I'm very sorry for that. I wish I could take 490 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 9: it all back. I wish I could go back to 491 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 9: that day and two things are different. I would just 492 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 9: wish I could just go back. 493 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: In July twenty twenty one, doctor mccorkyl submitted a letter 494 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: to the Pennsylvania Board of Pardons urging them to grant 495 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: Sylvia commutation. Sylvia's case is up for review in October 496 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. She needs a majority of a five 497 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: person panel to move to the next round of voting, 498 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: where she will need all five votes to be free. 499 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: If you'd like to show your support for Sylvia, go 500 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: to free Sylvia boycrind dot com to sign a petition 501 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: calling for her commutation. 502 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 6: Next time. 503 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: On Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling, Troy Berner. 504 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 10: You know I didn't have nothing to do with it, 505 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 10: so you know, and they're not going to be to 506 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 10: find nobody to say I had nothing to do with it, 507 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 10: so you know, I held on to that, you know, 508 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 10: that belief on where they say the truth says you're free. 509 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 510 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 511 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: links in our bio to see how you can help. 512 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flahm and 513 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: Kevin Wurtis, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, 514 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonya Paul, with additional production 515 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: by Jeff Clyburn and Connor Hall. The music in this 516 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 517 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, 518 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at 519 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On 520 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both 521 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie 522 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 523 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one