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Speaker 1: Hey, friends, it's Joshuam For this week's SYSK Selects. I've

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Speaker 1: chosen what makes Lead So Poisonous for twenty sixteen episode

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Speaker 1: that was recorded around the time of the Flint Water crisis,

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Speaker 1: which apparently is still going on. Sadly, this episode is

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Speaker 1: one of those ones that's filled with science culture, history,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. So I hope you really like it.

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Speaker 1: It's a good one.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with

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Speaker 1: Charles W Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's to my right. So

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Speaker 1: this is the stuff you should know.

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Speaker 2: It's right recording in a new pop up restaurant called

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Speaker 2: Jerry's Burrito Check.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jerry's eating a burrito right now, A frozen one.

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Speaker 1: I guess right. You didn't make that from scratch fresh

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Speaker 1: Jerry frozen burrito's fine with me, though, Yeah, some of them.

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Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with any frozen burrito ever created.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's this. They're very specific, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like a fresh burrito, but it's

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Speaker 2: its own thing that's still good.

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Speaker 1: Right, this should call it like a retete or something

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Speaker 1: weird like that something that differentiate it. You know, I

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Speaker 1: agree with you, man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but man, sometimes when that reefred bean pops out

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Speaker 2: and burns your mouth, yeah, that's just the best.

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Speaker 1: You have a hole in your in your on your

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Speaker 1: gums for a couple of days. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'll throw a little cheese on top too, to cool

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Speaker 2: it in the oven. No, to melt on top.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's an enchilada then, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Not really.

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Speaker 1: I think the enchilada makes the it's the sauce, right, Yeah, okay, that's.

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Speaker 2: What I'll say, swimming in sauce.

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Speaker 1: All right, enchilada sauce.

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Speaker 2: This may be your best intro yet Oa Chuck.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about lead today, that's right. Do you know

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Speaker 1: much about the Flint, Michigan lead poisoning scandal that happened

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Speaker 1: I should say blemish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I posted about it on our Facebook call a

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Speaker 2: couple of months ago and sort of was a part

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Speaker 2: of a lively discussion there. But only from that and

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Speaker 2: then this research.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, same here. I mean I was aware of it,

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Speaker 1: kind of, I didn't understand the details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But for those of.

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Speaker 1: You who don't who don't know about the Flint, Michigan

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Speaker 1: water poisoning, but Flint Michigan has faced a lot of

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Speaker 1: problems since the auto industry went away, but one of

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Speaker 1: them wasn't poor water quality. They actually, the people of

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Speaker 1: Flint actually paid i think the highest rate or among

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Speaker 1: the highest rates in the country to get their water.

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Speaker 1: Their water was pumped from Lake hereon through Detroit, and

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Speaker 1: Flint bought their water from Detroit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, get that good, clean Detroit water.

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Speaker 1: Right, You know you're in a pickle when you're buying

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Speaker 1: water from Detroit and that's the healthy water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So they're building a new pipeline from Lake Huron that

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Speaker 1: goes around Detroit, and Flint said we're going to get

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Speaker 1: in on that action. And Detroit said, oh yeah, well

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Speaker 1: we're can't linger contract. Rather than pay for a short

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Speaker 1: term contract with Detroit, the emergency manager, the basically the

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Speaker 1: emergency mayor appointed by the governor himself, said we're just

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Speaker 1: going to tap into the Flint River.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Not a good idea, as it turned out.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not because in Flint, Michigan, they were, among

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Speaker 1: other places, something called Buick City. Buick City was a

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Speaker 1: four hundred plus acre car manufacturing plant that made buicks,

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Speaker 1: and it really heavily polluted the river. So much so

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Speaker 1: that people in Flint, after just a few months of

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Speaker 1: drinking this water from the tap, started losing their hair.

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Speaker 2: Well right away. They said, this looks and taste awful.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's tastes of chlorine. And the reason it tasted

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Speaker 1: of chlorin is because there were e Coli break outbreaks

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Speaker 1: that they had to like treat the water with chlorine.

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Speaker 1: And then it also to some people it smelled like

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Speaker 1: sulfury as well. It looked, but people started losing hair,

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Speaker 1: started getting rashes. There there was one kid who had

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Speaker 1: an autoimmune disease already. He just stopped growing, and it

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Speaker 1: was it was bad news. But the people of Flint,

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Speaker 1: the Flint government, and the Michigan Environmental Protection Division basically

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Speaker 1: said no, we're following all the laws. Everything's fine with

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Speaker 1: the water. Just go back to sleep. Flint and Flint

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Speaker 1: did something different. A bunch of them taught themselves the

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Speaker 1: science of like water and sanitation and the drinking water laws.

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Speaker 1: They became basically citizen scientists, and they took it back

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Speaker 1: to the Flint government and the state government and said,

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Speaker 1: you guys are wrong. This is toxic water and we're

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Speaker 1: being poisoned, and you have to do something about it,

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Speaker 1: and they finally did well.

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Speaker 2: And I think the issue was don't play dumb. We know,

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Speaker 2: you know, like why are you making us tell you exactly?

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Speaker 1: And they kept that. Apparently the company line was no

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Speaker 1: that here's the science here, here the results of the tests.

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Speaker 1: But the tests were terrible. And if you want to

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Speaker 1: know all about it, there's a really really great article

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Speaker 1: on five point thirty eight dot com called what went

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Speaker 1: Wrong in Flint, and it just really chronicles everything very well.

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Speaker 1: But the big problem with Flint isn't that there was

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Speaker 1: chlorine in the water. It was that there was a

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Speaker 1: bunch of lead in the water.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why there's a bunch of lead in

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Speaker 1: the water is because there's lead pipes going to a

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Speaker 1: lot of houses in Flint, and the water that was

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Speaker 1: being pumped through those pipes was so corrosive that it

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Speaker 1: was bringing a bunch of lead with it and poisoning

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Speaker 1: the city of Flint for months.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the reason people use lead in pipes is

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Speaker 2: because it's not corrosive. Corrosive, that's how coros the water was. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: That really says something, it really does, And I guess

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Speaker 2: we'll loop back later and talk about the lawsuits and

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Speaker 2: all that stuff. Sure that sound good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great idea, kind of bookend it.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about lead itself, like, what's the problem

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Speaker 1: with lead? Where did it come from? And that whole

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Speaker 1: idea of using lead pipes is nothing new either, It's

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Speaker 1: actually pretty old, to tell you the truth.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, lad Well, the Romans, of course, were the

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Speaker 2: first to do almost everything, either Asians or Romans.

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Speaker 1: Sure, well, I don't know Africa, that's true. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: basically everybody except except Europe as the migration expanded exactly,

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Speaker 1: And don't forget all the innovations going on in meso

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Speaker 1: America as well.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to anyone who came before us. But it's

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Speaker 2: been going on since ancient times. Romans using lead as

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Speaker 2: lead piping for sewage draining and carrying water, even stored

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Speaker 2: water and containers lined with lead. And in fact, this

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Speaker 2: is pretty interesting. I think the English word for plumbing

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Speaker 2: and the chemical symbol pb that is led, comes from

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Speaker 2: the Latin word plumb bumb. Now plumb bumb is is

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Speaker 2: that plumber's crack?

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Speaker 1: Oh nice? If it wasn't it is officially now.

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Speaker 2: You know, my friend Eddie. His young daughter asked him

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Speaker 2: what plumbers crack? What was the other day and he said,

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Speaker 2: I said, what did you tell her? And he said, well,

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Speaker 2: you know told her what it was. He said, sometimes

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Speaker 2: plumbers they bend over a lot because pipes are below you,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes their pants sag a little. Then you see

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Speaker 2: their butt crack. Yeah, and she went, oh, okay.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I take issue with is the use

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Speaker 1: of the words.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, right all the times.

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Speaker 1: Other than that is a great explanation.

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Speaker 2: So the Latin plumb bomb, which means lead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which that has been mysterious to me for many decades.

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Speaker 1: PEB doesn't make any sense, Like why would they call

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Speaker 1: it PB?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's peani.

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Speaker 1: Lead right, and PB is you'll find it on the

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Speaker 1: periodic table. And the reason you'll find it on the

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Speaker 1: periodic table is because lead is an element, a heavy metal,

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Speaker 1: and it has all sorts of properties that make it

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Speaker 1: very desirable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really unique too, although.

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Speaker 1: Super super toxic as well.

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Speaker 2: Find Yeah, it's not often you can find something that

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Speaker 2: is super malleable and soft but also strong and dense.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, which makes lead perfect for water pipes. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: it's also it also resists corrosion, Like you said, so

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Speaker 1: you can run water through it, and as long as

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Speaker 1: the water is not super bad, the the lead won't rust.

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Speaker 1: It will leach lead into the water, but it still

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Speaker 1: won't rust, right, right. So it's also not very good

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Speaker 1: at conducting electricity, which makes lead very useful for other

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Speaker 1: things like soldering electrical connections. The electrical connection will remain

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Speaker 1: the thing that transmits the current, the lead won't. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you say soldier solder? Solder? Yeah, never heard

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Speaker 2: it pronounce that way.

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Speaker 1: How do you say it, solder solder? You gotta say

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Speaker 1: that l.

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Speaker 2: I think the el silent unless it's regional.

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Speaker 1: Maybe regional regional to my brain, I think solder.

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Speaker 2: You said that because you're from Toedo.

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Speaker 1: Right. So the use of the use of leg goes

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Speaker 1: back even before the Romans. Actually, but it first appeared

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Speaker 1: mostly in art like lead paint.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't like it They described in the articles

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Speaker 2: a novelty, and it was apparently it makes colors more

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Speaker 2: vibrant and it's less corrosive, which is why you still,

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Speaker 2: even in the United States, see lead paint on street

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Speaker 2: signs because it's less corrosive. Oh really, Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 2: they say. It's still used on signs.

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Speaker 1: Supposedly up until as recently as the nineties, and it

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Speaker 1: may still be going on depending on the country that

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Speaker 1: it's produced.

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Speaker 2: In.

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Speaker 1: The ink on the outside of a plastic bread bag

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Speaker 1: frequently has lead in it, or it used to, really,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't a problem unless the somebody kept the

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Speaker 1: bread bag and turned it inside out to store food in.

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Speaker 1: Then that food leached the lead out of the ink.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, it was actually like a big problem for

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Speaker 1: a while.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm not sure that it is anymore. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything recent. The most recent thing I saw was

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one saying that, yeah, it still happens, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's less expensive as a paint, which is another reason,

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Speaker 2: and the colors are more vivid apparently. But this hasn't

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Speaker 2: been a problem in the US for a while. But

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Speaker 2: in China they still use a lot of lead in paint,

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Speaker 2: and in two thousand and seven there were massive recalls

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Speaker 2: for everything from Dora the Explorer toys to Sesame Street

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Speaker 2: toys due to the fact that they had lead paint

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Speaker 2: on them and little kids put everything in their mouths,

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Speaker 2: including their toys because they're big dummies and they end

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Speaker 2: up eating lead, which is a big problem. So there

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Speaker 2: was a massive recall of Chinese products in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: seven because of this.

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Speaker 1: No, it was two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 2: What I say, ninety seven?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're hearkening back even further to the Urban Dance

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Speaker 1: Squad days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you look them up?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh, man, you're missing out.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's true.

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Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, why just because I like them now?

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Speaker 1: I remember them vaguely. Oh yeah, it wasn't like i'd

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Speaker 1: never heard of the Urban Dance Squad. No, you have

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Speaker 1: good taste of music.

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Speaker 2: Mental flows for the globe. Great, like a legitimately great album.

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Speaker 1: Of all right, I'll look it up. I'll look it up.

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Speaker 2: It's just weird that you say. You think you're not

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Speaker 2: missing out?

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Speaker 1: No, No, because I mean again, I remember Urban Dance

229
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Speaker 1: Squad for some reason. I put them in line with

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Speaker 1: like Spin Doctors in three eleven.

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Speaker 2: No, No, well, you know what I mean. Three eleven

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Speaker 2: could be slightly compared because they were kind of a

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Speaker 2: rock rap group, but they were Dutch. Urban Dance Squad

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Speaker 2: was yeah, oh okay, so that makes them cool in here.

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Speaker 1: Right, automatically. Yeah, somebody who just picked this up is like,

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Speaker 1: what are they talking about?

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Speaker 2: I know Enchilada's Urban Dance Squad. So lead paint in

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Speaker 2: the United States is well, it's still an issue in

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Speaker 2: some ways because older houses still have it. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: as of nineteen seventy eight, they said no more, get

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Speaker 2: the light out. That's right, and they define it as

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Speaker 2: any paint or surface coating that contains lead equal or

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Speaker 2: exceeding one milligram per square centimeter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically in nineteen seventy eight, it said, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to manufacture something for somebody's home that people

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Speaker 1: are generally going to come in contact with, most people

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Speaker 1: don't come in contact with street signs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the deal, right.

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Speaker 1: Then you can't have lead in it. But again, any

250
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Speaker 1: house built pre nineteen seventy eight, and there's plenty of

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Speaker 1: them out there, very likely has lead paint in it.

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Speaker 1: It also probably has lead pipes. Yeah, and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of lead around us all over the place in

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Speaker 1: places you wouldn't even think, like there's lead and leaded

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Speaker 1: glass like a glass, no, really like a glass you

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Speaker 1: like you might be using, you conceivably could be drinking

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Speaker 1: lead out of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, but you don't drink out of leaded glass.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. They use it to make regular plain old

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Speaker 1: dumb glass in a more like crystal. It gives it

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Speaker 1: like a ping when when you tap it. It makes

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Speaker 1: it the reflection a lot sharper. It also lowers the

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Speaker 1: melting point, so you know, if you put it in the oven,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't like right, but it's conceivably bad for you.

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Speaker 2: You know, who was on it long before the United

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Speaker 2: States government. Federal government was the city of Baltimore. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one, they banned lead pigment for interior paint,

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Speaker 2: very smart for their housing. And since the fifties it

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Speaker 2: had kind of been phased out in different parts of

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Speaker 2: the country. And then in nineteen seventy one we finally

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Speaker 2: got the Federal Lead Poisoning Prevention Act, and then it

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Speaker 2: took seven years after that to fully ban the paint

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Speaker 2: the paint lead paint.

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Speaker 1: Right. There's another big source of lead that was all

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Speaker 1: over the place in the twentieth century, and that was

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Speaker 1: in gasoline in cars. There was an additive in gasoline

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Speaker 1: that was added to gasoline called tetra ethyl lead, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you remember that, like you know, up with unleaded

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Speaker 2: or fully leaded right.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that they added lead to gas was

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Speaker 1: because there was a problem called knocking right where in

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Speaker 1: a high performance engine, when the gas entered the ignition chamber,

283
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Speaker 1: the combustion chamber, it may just get so amped up

284
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Speaker 1: that it would combust, it would ignite before it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to, and this would basically disrupt the movement of

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Speaker 1: the pistons. Right when they did that, they knocked, they pinged,

287
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Speaker 1: it did all sorts of bad stuff. The lead kept

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Speaker 1: the gas from combusting or igniting before it was meant to,

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Speaker 1: so it was a pretty great additive. The thing is,

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Speaker 1: we already knew that lead was not good for you

291
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Speaker 1: at the time, but we added it to gas anyway.

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Speaker 1: And then it was finally phased out in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: Starting in the seventies, i should say, because we started

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Speaker 1: adding catalytic converters to our cars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that helped that, and just our the process of

296
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Speaker 2: the chemical process of refining petroleum just advanced, so we

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00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 2: no longer needed it.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it wasn't just crummy gas. It was pretty

299
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: good gas. It didn't need lead. Yeah, if you run

300
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Speaker 1: leaded gas through a catalytic converter. It totally messes it up.

301
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Speaker 1: And the catalytic converters there to prevent emission, so you

302
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Speaker 1: take lead out of gas. The problem we found is

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Speaker 1: that during these few decades from like the twenties till

304
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Speaker 1: actually nineteen ninety six was the last year you could

305
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Speaker 1: have lead in your gas in the United States. Yeah,

306
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. During this period, basically all the cars

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Speaker 1: on the road were spewing lead lead vapors into the

308
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Speaker 1: atmosphere that would just go into the air and then

309
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Speaker 1: come back into the ground and settle in the soil

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Speaker 1: and water and your face.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had. I used leaded gas in my I

312
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 2: had to put it in my early VW Beetles that

313
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Speaker 2: I drove.

314
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had a couple of.

315
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Speaker 2: Old you know, vintage, well vintage. They bought them new.

316
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. My mom she bought a sixty eight

317
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 2: beetle brand new. Wow. That's when I drove when I

318
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Speaker 2: turned sixteen.

319
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Speaker 1: Wow, I think it was still around huh yeah, yeah. Nice.

320
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 2: You know, those things they never die if you take

321
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Speaker 2: care of them.

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00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 1: Did you like ever use duct tape or anything like

323
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: that on it?

324
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 2: No, but I did. Funny, you mentioned I had a

325
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 2: whole sizable hole in the rear floorboard. Yeah. That My

326
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 2: friends call it the Flintstones car because you could, like

327
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Speaker 2: you put your feet down and run.

328
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Speaker 1: So I did have a board, a running board, No,

329
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 1: just a board over the hole, but I mean you

330
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: could remove the board and run, Yeah, while you were

331
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Speaker 1: sitting in the back seat.

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Speaker 2: That's right, great car.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

334
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Speaker 2: Lead has been added to cosmetics over the years, jewelry, pottery,

335
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 2: and then today because everyone knows let is so such

336
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 2: a jerk. One of the only places you're going to

337
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 2: find it in the US at least is in your

338
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Speaker 2: car battery.

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00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: Your car, yeah, your car battery, or your laptop.

340
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, which is why it's really important to recycle

341
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 2: that car battery, don't or that laptop. Don't throw it

342
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 2: in the woods. Yeah, responsibly recycle your electronics and batteries.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. If there's one thing that we've learned since the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century is that lead has some serious staying power,

345
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,040
Speaker 1: and it has a very pesky tendency to get out

346
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 1: of wherever we put it, right. Yeah, and yeah, if

347
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 1: you put it in just a regular landfill that's not

348
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 1: designed to accept things like lead, it'll just leach into

349
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,119
Speaker 1: the ground water, and same thing with your e waste

350
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Speaker 1: your laptops, And the reason that they're used in laptops

351
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: is because the lead actually protects you from the radiation

352
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,679
Speaker 1: that would shoot out of your laptop screen into your face. Yeah,

353
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,640
Speaker 1: if it weren't for the toxic lead in there.

354
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,919
Speaker 2: That's right, glass cathode ray tubes like you find in

355
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: your computer laptop screen.

356
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

357
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about your laptop or your computer.

358
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, your monitor, Yeah, I'll bet there's but you should

359
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: lead in there.

360
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,679
Speaker 2: You should responsibly recycle your laptop too, for sure reasons.

361
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:01,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you did a.

362
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 2: What was it called electronics recycling?

363
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? What was it? Like? Just a thought or I

364
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 1: have no idea what you're talking about. You did a

365
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: video series where you like, now sure deep thoughts.

366
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,479
Speaker 2: No, I can't even remember I created the series.

367
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you did one on e recycling.

368
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but nobody cared or watch.

369
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: So the world was not saved.

370
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 2: Everyone said, Chuck quit doing it all right, Well, let's

371
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: take a break. I'm gonna go cry a teer for

372
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 2: a man. What was the name of that series?

373
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll go get forties and pour them

374
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: out on the Curb Forum.

375
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 2: All right, we'll be back in a second. All right, Josh,

376
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,360
Speaker 2: we've talked a lot about lead so far and Enchiladas

377
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 2: rock bands. Yeah, lead comes from the earth, though, let's

378
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 2: let's take it underground.

379
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not actually, I mean, it is naturally occurring,

380
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: but it doesn't naturally occur in its pure form.

381
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't just like dig down and you're like, hey,

382
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 2: there's a big hunk of lead, right, let me pull

383
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 2: it out.

384
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 1: Instead, lead atoms have I think four unpaired electrons maybe

385
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: in its outer shell. So it likes to form connections

386
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: with other things. So when you find lead in the earth,

387
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna find it in the form of an oxide

388
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 1: or a sulfide or something like that. Frequently it's combined

389
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 1: with silver, and so that means it has to be separated.

390
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 1: And even the Romans back in the day, which by

391
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: the way, these Roman lead pipes that they used for

392
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 1: baths and for sanitation and stuff still intact today.

393
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: You can still dig those up and beat people with them.

394
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 1: You could, they're so strong. That's the other place you'll

395
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 1: find a lead pipe is in the hand of some

396
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 1: dude coming at you.

397
00:19:58,800 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 2: Yea or a game of clue.

398
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's right. It was bent. Even the guy

399
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 1: was hit so hard with it. Yeah, kernel mustard. He

400
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,400
Speaker 1: was not to be trusted.

401
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 2: He was not. But yes, the Romans they had a

402
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: pretty ingenus man, they were so smart. They had a

403
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 2: pretty ingenious process called coupilation. The extent of that is

404
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 2: basically the idea is that some precious metals, I'm sorry,

405
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: precious metals, All precious metals won't oxidize, but dumb metals will.

406
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: So if you heat that junk up, it's going to separate.

407
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: Right, And they used it mostly to separate from silver.

408
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: But these days we get most of our lead from

409
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: something called galena, where a lead sulfide is found, right.

410
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and our process is sort of similar. It is

411
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: very like using heat to separate things.

412
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: And this actually very much resembles Do you remember our

413
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: waste gasification episode?

414
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could remember which one this evoked.

415
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was that one, because the process is very similar.

416
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: So you take some lead sulfide and you heat it

417
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: up in the air, so there's the presence of oxygen

418
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: and it converts into lead oxide and sulfur dioxide, right,

419
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: So you separate them out a little bit. Then you

420
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 1: take that lead oxide and you add carbon coke and

421
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: you again mix it with some air and as that happens,

422
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: the air combines with the oxide into car. No, the

423
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: carbon combines with the air and becomes carbon dioxide takes

424
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: all of the oxygen molecules from the lead atoms. So

425
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: the lead, basically what amounts of pure lead, becomes molten

426
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: and goes down to the bottom of the furnace and

427
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: carbon dioxide goes out into the atmosphere. It sounds like

428
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: a very safe process basically creating molten lead and carbon dioxide.

429
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's called roasting and smelting. And once that lead

430
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: sinks cools down, it's gonna it's called a pig. It's

431
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: just a big mesa lead basically.

432
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, like pig iron.

433
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's delicious. And then you have slag, which

434
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: is the non metallic byproduct of the smelting process. Yeah,

435
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: and you siphon and cool that down and it's waste product.

436
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: Yes.

437
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 2: And like I said, recycling your car battery is important

438
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 2: because there's also a process called secondary extraction where they

439
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 2: get that lead out of your battery. You can keep

440
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: using it exactly.

441
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: That's the other good thing about lead It is extremely

442
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: reusable because again, it has a lot of staying power.

443
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: So you're not going to use lead up right, you know,

444
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: which means you want to reuse it. Yes, we should

445
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: get to the point where we don't need to mine

446
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: any more lead or process any more lead. Just reuse

447
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: the lead we've got, yeah, or maybe find some great

448
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: substitute that isn't so toxic.

449
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: You know, you melt down those tiny Civil war figurines.

450
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, those guys?

451
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: Are those lead?

452
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: Sure?

453
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: Okay I thought they were. Yeah, So handling and painting

454
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: those with lead paint it's dangerous.

455
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, yes it is.

456
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: Is that why we're losing so many war figurine buffs?

457
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 2: I think so at an alarming rate.

458
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: That's why they all have like spittle and drool around

459
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: the corners of their mouths and like zone out while

460
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: they're painting.

461
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: Well, there's other reasons for that, but sure it contributes.

462
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: So okay, Chuck, you mentioned or we mentioned lead refining

463
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: and processing, smelting, roasting, that kind of stuff, right, that

464
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: does create emissions of not just carbon dioxide but also

465
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: lead vapor, which is not good stuff, and you want

466
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 1: to control that kind of stuff, but it is emitted,

467
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: and it used to be. Well, these days, lead emissions

468
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: from refining and processing are actually the number one source

469
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: of lead vapor emissions in the environment. Right but forty yeah,

470
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: about forty years ago, forty five years ago, that was

471
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: not the case. The case was all those cars driving

472
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: around on the streets emitting lead vapor.

473
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you used to account for about seventy eight percent

474
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: if it came from your automobile, and since the phasing

475
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 2: out and reversal, we know have fifty two percent coming

476
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: from the processing. And what is it down to road sources?

477
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: It's thirteen thirteen percent fuel combustion.

478
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, not bad, No, not bad. Still again, you basically

479
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: wanted it like zero. As we're finding, like the as

480
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: we'll see that that lead exposure in any amount is

481
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: not good and it gets it goes from not good

482
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: to really bad very quickly. Apparently.

483
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, let us know good. We mentioned

484
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: kids chewing on something with lead pain is not good.

485
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 2: If you're redoing your house and it's pre nineteen seventy eight,

486
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: you want to get a piece tested. You can't just

487
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: be like let me sand off, No, the paint on

488
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: this molding.

489
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: No, because again, even if you think you've cleaned it up,

490
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: there's still in there's lead right there, buddy. Yeah, that

491
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: you're not going to get rid of it. Apparently, Also,

492
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: open and closing your windows in a pre nineteen seventy

493
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: eight house can create lead dust.

494
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're lucky enough to be able to open

495
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 2: your windows. Sure that's a point minor sealed shut.

496
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, or a nail chot or what have you.

497
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just from years of painting basically with probably.

498
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: Lead paint guaranteed.

499
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: No, it's not. Actually we had it tested, Oh did you? Yeah?

500
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't one hundred percent lead paint, but.

501
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: You had to test it like all the way through, like.

502
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But what I'm saying is pre nineteen

503
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: seventy eight, it's not like the only paint that was used.

504
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: I know you're saying that's why you get it tested, right,

505
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: But did.

506
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: You get like all the layers underneath tested well for

507
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: any Yeah? Okay, that was my all the layers sound effect.

508
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: Like we hired a lead person.

509
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: I gotcha. Good good good. That makes me feel better. Yeah.

510
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: And if you want to if there is lead and

511
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: you want to get the lead out. You're going to

512
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: have to hire someone that knows what they're doing, and

513
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 2: oh yeah, they'll come in with their hazmat suits on

514
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: to do so.

515
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: Right. So you can also get it from plumbing, although

516
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: apparently with lead plumbing it's not quite as much of

517
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: a thread as you would think. You know, doesn't that

518
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: make you just want to like never drink water again?

519
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: Knowing that you have lead pipes in your house. You

520
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: shouldn't necessarily be worried because over the years, water sanitation

521
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: experts have figured out that if you have good water

522
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: that's non corrosive, it actually is not only non corrosive,

523
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: the water will leave behind a protective coating that coats

524
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: the inside of the pipes that it runs through. Over

525
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: the lead, Yes, nice, over whatever it is, but yeah,

526
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: it's going to leave a protective coat of other substances

527
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: that aren't toxic. It's going to form a barrier for

528
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: later water and the pipes. Right, And so you shouldn't

529
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: necessarily be freaked out if you have lead pipes coming

530
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: to your house, although I mean, you got the money,

531
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: there's definitely worse things you could spend your money on

532
00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 1: than replacing those pipes.

533
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know move to what copper PBC.

534
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: Well, copper can be a problem as well. There's actually

535
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: a copper lead rule that dictates how non corrosive city's

536
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: water has to be right to follow this rule, and

537
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: it's protecting not just against lead but copper. You don't

538
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: really want copper either, although it's not nearly as bad

539
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: for you as lead.

540
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: Interesting, So, if you have lead in your system, I mean,

541
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: it goes, it goes into your blood stream, doesn't matter

542
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: how it gets in there. If you inhale it, it'll

543
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: be absorbed through the capillaries and the lungs into the blood.

544
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: Or if you if you lick it, touch it, if

545
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 2: you lick it, yeah, it's gonna find its way into

546
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 2: your blood and you can. I mean it's really easy

547
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: to find out if you have lead in your blood.

548
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: You just get a blood test. I don't know why

549
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: they would do this other test. I don't either, And

550
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: not just a blood test unless it's like prohibitively expensive

551
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: or something.

552
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, the other test is called the zinc protoporphyn test,

553
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: and that's a byprop of red blood cells as they

554
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: break down in the presence of lead. So rather than

555
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: directly testing and it's not finding lead either. You're like

556
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: going around to see excuse me, lead, I want to

557
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: see if your shadowy is detectable.

558
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: And don't get it.

559
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: It makes zero sense because you.

560
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: Got to take your blood for that too. Write sure,

561
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: and it's not as accurate.

562
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But the lead blood

563
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: test is so easy that companies like three AM and

564
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: plenty of others sell home lead blood tests.

565
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: Oh that's nice.

566
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is nice unless you're the parent who is

567
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: freaked out giving one to your kid.

568
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: Well, that's true. You know, anything over equal to or

569
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: greater than five micrograms per desolet is bad if you're

570
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: a kid. If you're an adult, you can tolerate a

571
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: little bit more, but it's still distressing.

572
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: Right, And that's how it's expressed. So a microgram to

573
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: a desolader, which is what a tenth of a leader, right,

574
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: and so five is not good. Ten programs in a

575
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: destin leader is where demonstrable like behavioral and cognitive problems

576
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: start to develop.

577
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's serious trouble.

578
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: But the EPA has said that there's quote no demonstrated

579
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: safe concentration of lead and blood, like you shouldn't have

580
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: any in it. Right.

581
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: The problem is it's nothing but toxic to humans. There

582
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: is no benefit.

583
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about it in just a second.

584
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: But the problem with lead is that we're figuring out

585
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: that we shouldn't be exposed to it at all, while

586
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: we're also simultaneously figuring out that we have washed our

587
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: planet in it. Yeah, from the last like couple hundred years.

588
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, you want to take a break, Yeah, all right,

589
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: we'll come back and we'll talk about all kinds of

590
00:29:47,000 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: fun stuff. All right, So before I left it, Tea

591
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: is that there is no function for lead in the body.

592
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: It is nothing but toxic, and it the way it

593
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: behaves in your body in a negative way is really

594
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: interesting your body. And this happens a lot if youel

595
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: like we covered the body mistaking something for something else

596
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: quite a bit. Yeah, there should be a word for.

597
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: That case of mistaken identity.

598
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: I guess that's it. But the body treats lead like calcium,

599
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: So it's going to go where calcium goes in the body,

600
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: including your bones, which is super scary.

601
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, lead settles in very comfortably into calcium receptors and

602
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: it's not just bones, like that's what I always think

603
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: of when I think of calcium, like, well, you need

604
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: calcium because your bones will break, or you get rickets

605
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: if you don't have it or whatever. But calcium comes

606
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: in handy throughout your whole body. And one of the

607
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: big places that shows up is in calcium ions in

608
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: your neuronal activity. Right, Yeah, So when your neurons fire,

609
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: one of the ways that they fire is because the

610
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: neurons or the calcium ions get them all excited and

611
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: then boom, your neurons is fired. If lead is in

612
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: that calcium ion channel instead of calcium, that boo doesn't happen,

613
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, your neurons aren't firing as

614
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: much as they would if the lead wasn't present. And

615
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: now we have a big problem here.

616
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's especially big problem with children because children's

617
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: little brains are you know, we talked about plasticity before.

618
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: They're constantly forming these new neural connections, and any kind

619
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: of lead and the mistaken for calcium is going to

620
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: disrupt those connections. And so your child is literally their

621
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: brain isn't going to advance like it should.

622
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: Right exactly. Intellectually, the apparently emotional centers like the amygdala

623
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: can suffer. Yeah, it's been found to produce hyperactivity, antisocial behavior,

624
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: attention deficit disorder, all sorts of problems from the presence

625
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: of lead, right, And like you said, it's worse for

626
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: kids because their brains are still developing and forming. It's

627
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: bad for anybody, but it's definitely worse for kids. And

628
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: the other way that it affects kids is that so

629
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: the regions of their brains aren't developing correctly. But then simultaneously,

630
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: calcium is also important in the formation of myelin, which

631
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: is that protective sheath around the synapses between neurons. So

632
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: that's kind of like flimsy, which means that the neurons

633
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: aren't firing efficiently. So not only do you have brain

634
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: regions affected, but the communication between brain regions are affected

635
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: too in little kids. And the upshot is is that

636
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: it promotes all sorts of problems with cognitive and emotional

637
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: and behavioral development in children.

638
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like literally lower IQ scores.

639
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: And we should say that's just like the most prominent,

640
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: horrifying effective lead. There's a whole laundry list of other

641
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: things that can happen to you, like kidney failure, pain

642
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: in your bones and joints from all that lead settling

643
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: into where the calcium is supposed to go.

644
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, how about a decreased sex drive and sterility and

645
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: infertility for both men and women? What else? Diarrhea, lack

646
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: of appetite, constipation.

647
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: I think diarrhea is the least of your worries. If

648
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: you have a life blood.

649
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: High blood pressure, enlarged heart. It affects virtually every system

650
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: in your body basically.

651
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: And the reason why again is because it mimics or

652
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: it takes the place of calcium. And calcium is incredibly vital.

653
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: It's an extremely important mineral that you need found throughout

654
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: your body. And if a leg goes in is like ooh,

655
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm here instead. Yeah, it's not going to do the

656
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: stuff that the calcium is supposed to do, leading to

657
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: all this cascade of horrific problems.

658
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the other scary things is that

659
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: they unless you have acute lead poisoning, you may not know,

660
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: In fact, you probably won't know, yeah, that you're being

661
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: slowly poisoned, and you might just think, oh, I have

662
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: diarrhea and I don't feel like having sex much anymore, right,

663
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: And you might be slowly getting lead poisoning.

664
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you you just blame that on too many

665
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: buffalo wings. But boom, it's lead poison.

666
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: Take scare of both. Sure you remember being a kid

667
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: and like lead pencils, Like it was a big scare,

668
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: Like you know you got lead poisoning if you got

669
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: poked with a pencil.

670
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that, But then I also remember learning

671
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: that it's actually graphite used in pencils.

672
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should have by our age, you should have

673
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: David Reese on Oh yeah, how to sharpen a pencil? Man,

674
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: he can school you on some pencils.

675
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: He wrote a whole book on it, literally wrote the

676
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: book on pencil sharpening.

677
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. I still have let or I guess, graphite somewhere

678
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: in my hand from when I was jabbed very deep

679
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 2: with a pencil that broke off. Wow, and it never

680
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: left and there's still just looks like a little black freckle.

681
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: It's like you're in prison and got shanked.

682
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: I know, I can't find where it is shived.

683
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: I see it's right there.

684
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: No, this is scratch good. Try.

685
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: So we've talked about all the cognitive problems that can

686
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: come about in behavioral and emotional This orders that can

687
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: develop from lead. And this is like study after study

688
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: after study has found this. It's one of the big

689
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: reasons why there have been so many restrictions placed on

690
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: lead exposure. And recently some people have some researchers, including

691
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: a couple well, an economist I believe, and an epidemiologist

692
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: have kind of taken that idea that lead can create

693
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: all of these behavioral problems and any social behavioral problems

694
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: and extrapolated to this idea that there is a big

695
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: rise in the crime rate in the United States and

696
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: actually around the world that followed about twenty years the

697
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: same trajectory of the use of lead and gasoline.

698
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was super interesting article, very controversial, like when

699
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: it came well it still is, sure, but yeah, it's

700
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: very interesting.

701
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called lead America's Real Criminal Element. It was

702
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: in Mother Jones. It was written by Kevin Drum. He's

703
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: one of the all time greats working today. And I

704
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: think I've mentioned it before, but I strongly encourage anybody

705
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't even matter if lead's the most boring thing

706
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: in the world to you go read this article. You

707
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: will just be riveted by it. And Kevin Drum does

708
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: a lot of he does a very good job of

709
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: keeping his extrapolations down as low as possible, although anybody

710
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: can see by the evidence that he lays out that

711
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: this is it's pretty clear that lead is some sort

712
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: of culprit in this, and it's been shot down in

713
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: that there's this idea that the science isn't settled. I

714
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: suspect that it's the same mechanisms that force with climate denial, Like, oh,

715
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: unsettled science doesn't prove anything. If you look at all

716
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: the studies associated with this, the correlation between lead use

717
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 1: and gasoline and therefore led emissions in cars and criminal

718
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: activity and its decline again, it just follows it like

719
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: twenty years after. And the whole idea is that when

720
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: we started emitting led into the atmosphere, kids started suffering

721
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: these cognitive and antisocial behaviors. And then about twenty years

722
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: after these kids were born, they started actually carrying out

723
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: criminal activity, and we saw a tremendous rise and everything

724
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: from like murder to rape, to muggings to everything. And

725
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,479
Speaker 1: the article is too long to really go into detail. Again,

726
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: just i'd strongly urge anybody to go read it.

727
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the backlash that I've seen on the article

728
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: wasn't to me like it was all from scientists mainly. Yeah,

729
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: I read a few of them. They weren't poopooing the notion.

730
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 2: They said, what this means is it bears a lot

731
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: more investigation, but as much as you want. If you

732
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: can't replicate it, it's still possible confirmation bias or just

733
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: sure correlation and not causation, could be a host of

734
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: other issues into that.

735
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 1: It could be. And Kevin Jrum makes the same point.

736
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: He's like, there's also a rise in the use of

737
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: vinyl albums that followed roughly the same trajectory as well.

738
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, of course it needs more study

739
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: for sure.

740
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: Well this is this one scientist said, what you really

741
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 2: need to do is follow what he calls a cohort study,

742
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: when you actually follow individuals right along a long timeline. Yeah,

743
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: it's just a tough study. It's it bears a lot

744
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: of to prove something like this just takes a lot

745
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: more data than they have.

746
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: Right, And I think the guy you're referencing is Scott Firestone, who.

747
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,479
Speaker 2: Is Yeah, that was a good artist who.

748
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: Wrote on the Discover magazine blog and you know he

749
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: gives kudos to Drum, who definitely deserves it for basically

750
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: saying every time he says, you know it's it's it's

751
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: so obvious, you'd have to be just you know, have

752
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: your head in the sand to deny this. He does

753
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: say that yes, speaking scientifically, it does require more study.

754
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: Super interesting though, because the crime and Drum followed it

755
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: all over the world. He didn't just go to the

756
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: United States, and he saw the same thing in Canada

757
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: and Australia and Great Britain. And the good news is

758
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: if that is the case, then we should see crime dropping.

759
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: Well we have forever. Yeah, But the problem is is

760
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: that it also should get us to basically mitigate the

761
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: lead that is around, like in the soil and in

762
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: the water and everywhere in people's houses. And the dollar

763
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: amounts that he estimates it would cost are pretty prohibitive

764
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: at least as far as like the public will goes

765
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: from right now. But who knows. I mean, if enough

766
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: science is done on it, and you get the scientific

767
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: community vocally speaking about this, then maybe the public will

768
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: will change.

769
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. If you do have lead poisoning, you can get

770
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: on meds. There's a prescription called Susimer s U C

771
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: C I M E R.

772
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: That was beautiful.

773
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: Uh, it's that or Suckerer. I like how you said

774
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: they can reduce blood lead. There of course always side

775
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: effects with every medication. And if you work, if you've

776
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: like if there's been a disaster and you get toxic

777
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: lead in your body very quickly, right, they can use

778
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: something called uh Kelson collation collation therapy. Uh. And that's

779
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 2: when they use a collating agent. I'm not even going

780
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: to try. That's called E T A.

781
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to try it. Okay, ethyl lenidiamina tetricetic acid.

782
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 2: Hey, not bad if you like super quick.

783
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: I missed the last A. That's just a few letters

784
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: off from super califragilistic XP.

785
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: It looks like the alphabet when it's on paper. But uh,

786
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 2: we'll call it E D T A. And that's when

787
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: it's infused into the bloodstream and actually binds basically says

788
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: lead you're coming with me through the kidney out of

789
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: your body.

790
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: Right. But they use that when it's just an acute

791
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: toxic dose that that a person's been exposed to, if

792
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: a kid's been found to be poisoned with lead. Actually,

793
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: from what I read, one of the best treatments that

794
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: they'll carry out there. There'll be other stuff too, depending

795
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: on how bad it is, but a really good nutritious diet,

796
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: getting the kid foods that are high in things like

797
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: calcium and high in things like vitamin C that help

798
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: the body absorb calcium so that they can go displace

799
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: lead in the body. Because if you got lead and

800
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: you got calcium fighting for the for the same place,

801
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: if you can get the calcium in there, it's going

802
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: to displace the lead and then hopefully leave the body

803
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: like I'm going home.

804
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: That's gotta be hard on the kidney.

805
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: So I don't know, you, Yeah, I think if you

806
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: have an acute lead poisoning or a serious lead poisoning,

807
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: it's it's not good. But yeah, of course it'd be

808
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: hard on the kidneys because one of the things is

809
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: kidney fit.

810
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and anemia exactly. If lead is Lead is definitely

811
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: invariably in the ground and the groundwater and in the

812
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: soil around us. And that's a problem because it sort

813
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 2: of works this way up the food chain in a

814
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: weird way because what you have are these tiny organisms

815
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: it gets in their body, like plankton and microscopic plants

816
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: and they die, and then other things eat that their waste, right,

817
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 2: and then it just sort of like bigger animals come

818
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: along and keep eating these things.

819
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just humans that suffer from lead toxicity,

820
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: other animals too, even the small ones.

821
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: So should we talk about these Flint lawsuits a little? Yeah,

822
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: and then enchilattis and that will fully yep, well non toxicatus.

823
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,479
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on who manufactured it.

824
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 2: So I did some reading on the lawsuits. Right now,

825
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: there's more than a dozen and probably growing. I'm sure

826
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: a few of them are class action suits on behalf

827
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: of tens of thousands of Flint residents. And you know,

828
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: attorneys always look their chops when they hear stuff like this.

829
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: But there's some concerns. One is that the state of

830
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: Michigan is, like the city is broke, so don't even bother.

831
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: The state of Michigan may be an route to go

832
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: if you want to get a lot of money, but

833
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: then they say that'll just get pack passed along to

834
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 2: the taxpayer. And a lot of experts in the legal

835
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: world say that compensation is unlikely to begin with as

836
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: far as money goes, because of something couple of things.

837
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: One thing called sovereign immunity, which basically means the government

838
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: can say, you know, giving water to the citizens is

839
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: a core government function, so we're shielded legally from liability

840
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 2: for doing that improperly, so like you can't sue us,

841
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: we're trying to give you water. And the other thing

842
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: is specific causation has to be proved. So not only

843
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: do you have to prove that the lead came from

844
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: that water and not like the lead pipes in your

845
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: house or other like the lead paint in your wall,

846
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: maybe it has to come specifically from that Flint River water.

847
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: And you also have to prove that that directly led

848
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: to the problem that your kid is having, and not

849
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: you know, other things.

850
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things I read was that it's

851
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: very possible that the lead came from the pipes in

852
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: those people's houses, but that it's still on the provider

853
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: of the water. Because they were supposed to be following

854
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: corrosion protection techniques that they lied about following, they weren't

855
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: following them, so it got rid of that protective coating

856
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: that had been on the lead pipes before and was

857
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: bringing all that lead into people's homes directly. So it

858
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: may have been led from the people's homes, but it

859
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: was the corrosive nature of the terrible drinking water that

860
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: was being pumped through those that caused that lead to

861
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: be brought into the people's homes. And then again, on

862
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: top of it, the government was lying about using the

863
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: techniques that they were supposed to be using to prevent

864
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: that from happening. So now that they've switched back over

865
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: to Detroit water, it's going to take a while for

866
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: that protective film to develop on the pipes again. Right, So,

867
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: even now that the different water is coming through, it's

868
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: still lousy with lead. And the sad thing is that

869
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: some people in Flint are too poor to do anything

870
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: about it. They still need water, so they're still drinking

871
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: leaded water even though they know that it's going to

872
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: hurt them down the line.

873
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: Well, and it's sad that it sounds like getting real

874
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 2: compensation is maybe unlikely.

875
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because a lot of these people who have kids,

876
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: like if their kids suffer severe cognitive development problems, they're

877
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: gonna need help like the rest of their lives.

878
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. This one guy, he's a law professor specializing an

879
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: environmental law named Noah Hall. He says what the probably

880
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: the smart thing to do, if you really want to

881
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: help these people is set up do what they did

882
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: with the Deep Water Horizon spill and set up a

883
00:45:53,320 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: victim's compensation fund instead of doing it via lawsuit like legislature.

884
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: Maybe that would help.

885
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

886
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: He basically said what the state shouldn't do is fight this.

887
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: He's like, that would be big trouble. He said they

888
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: should set up some sort of fund so then they

889
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: look like the good guy still. But then I think

890
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: you don't get all the dirty details dragged out in

891
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: public like you would with a lass.

892
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, apparently they're already coming out anyway, like troves of

893
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: emails have been released. The governor set up a task

894
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: force to find out who is to blame, and they

895
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 1: turned around and they were like you, and.

896
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: He said, fire the task for right.

897
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: Exactly, You're all fired. Yeah. I don't know what's gonna happen,

898
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: but it's very scary public health scare.

899
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: Flint, I know, talk about a city that's been roughed

900
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: up over the years.

901
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 1: I know. Well, we're there with you, Flint, hanging there.

902
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about lead or Flint

903
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: or criminal activity. You can check out all these different

904
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: articles on the Internet and you can type lead into

905
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: the search bar House of Works dot com. I'll bring

906
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: up a pretty great article. Since I said pretty great article,

907
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: it's time for a listener. Man.

908
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to call this Finland Rules. Remember we did

909
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: the Dark Money podcast and I was like, what's a

910
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 2: good place that's not corrupt? I remember we heard from

911
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: a lot of people in Scandinavia. Hi, I'm an American

912
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: living in Helsinki for the last few years with my

913
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: Finnish husband. Chuck, you were right on the money when

914
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: you said there's very little political corruption here. Of course

915
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: there are some, because there are humans, after all, but

916
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 2: the level compared to the States is laughable. When I

917
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: asked my husband about it, he thought for a second.

918
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: Asked about corruption scandals, he said, a few years back,

919
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 2: there was something about a prime minister who accepted lumber

920
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: from a company to build his house. Huh, that was it.

921
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: It seems comical to me considering the States in an

922
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: election year. Also, the campaign season is a much shorter year,

923
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: and it's done a little different. A party runs there

924
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: at least five major parties. That's crazy in and of

925
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 2: itself sure like crazy good Yeah. Party runs in whichever

926
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 2: gets a majority, elects from its ranks the prime minister

927
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: and makes a cabinet out of a coalition of the

928
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: other parties which receive high numbers of votes. How about that,

929
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: Like you came in second.

930
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: You're on board too, I mean, come on, and here's

931
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: your participant.

932
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: Ribbon campaigns are paid for by disclosed donations and public funds.

933
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 2: He also made a comment about the high taxes here.

934
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: Many people, usually Americans, say that with distaste that the

935
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: taxes are so high here. But I've come to think

936
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,959
Speaker 2: very highly of it. I've discovered that I don't really

937
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: need another pair of jeans or a new jacket. What

938
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 2: I need is an educated society around me, and access

939
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 2: to quality healthcare and a truly equal society where everyone

940
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: is safe and has her basic needs met. That is

941
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: from Gabrielle. Wow, a lot of people hate your guts

942
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: for saying that, Gabrielle.

943
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: That is so brave of you. Thanks Gabrielle for writing in.

944
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how they say audios in Finland.

945
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: No, she's American.

946
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: Well, goodbye. Thank you for writing in. If you want

947
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us, You can tweak to

948
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: us at s ysk podcast. You can join us on

949
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know if you

950
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: can send us an email to Stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks

951
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: dot com and has always joined us on the web

952
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: at stuff youshould Know dot com.

953
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: You Know.

954
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

955
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

956
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.