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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Forget the

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Speaker 1: trusted apps, and powerful analytics used by the world's leading brands.

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Speaker 1: Sign up today for your one dollar per month trial

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Speaker 1: period at shopify dot com slash tech all lowercase that's

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Speaker 1: Shopify dot com slash tech. I listened to The Black

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Speaker 1: Guy Who Tips podcast because Rod and Karen are hot.

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Speaker 2: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of The Black Guy

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Speaker 2: Who Tips. I'm your host, Rod and I'm joined as

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Speaker 2: always by my co host Karen. And today there's no

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Speaker 2: rap intro, there's no witty upfront. We are actually put

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Speaker 2: in a previously recorded episode of Medium Talk, my spinoff show.

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Speaker 2: There's an interview show with our girl, Taoso, who is

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Speaker 2: an activist and like a public figure and a bunch

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Speaker 2: of other stuff. I mean, she's just she's out of

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Speaker 2: these streets, okay, doing the work at any rate. Tragedy

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Speaker 2: befail her her family home. Man and my student storm

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Speaker 2: destroyed her home, her family's home, and you know, she's

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Speaker 2: been trying to get that fixed up and stuff, and

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Speaker 2: I put a link to the GoFundMe that she has

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Speaker 2: for raising funds to try to, you know, help get this,

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Speaker 2: get her home.

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Speaker 3: Restored in her family taking care because you know, people

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Speaker 3: don't have.

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Speaker 2: Anywhere to stay, and I know people in communities are

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Speaker 2: coming together to help, which is so beautiful. And I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know what, we did a great interview a while

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Speaker 2: a while ago. It's just me and her, no caring,

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Speaker 2: but it was. It was a great interview a while ago.

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Speaker 2: And she's on those people that I'm like, yo, I

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Speaker 2: hope our audience can maybe go out there help if

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Speaker 2: you can. You know, we talk about activists all the

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Speaker 2: time and how they do so much stuff and it's

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Speaker 2: almost like a thankless job, you know, when you need

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Speaker 2: something all of a sudden, it's like, what the.

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Speaker 3: Fuck is this?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Anyway, man, she was a great interview. I think you

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Speaker 2: guys are gonna enjoy it just based off of that.

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Speaker 2: We talked for a long time. I know, only on

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Speaker 2: the schedule these things for an hour and we end

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Speaker 2: up talking almost two hours.

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Speaker 3: We had such a good time, So yeah, check it out.

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Speaker 2: Uh it we'll play it right after this little intro here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and don't forget to leave feedback

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Speaker 2: on the blackoutips dot com.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget.

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Speaker 2: You guys can uh email us all that type of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Leis Fostar reviews, appreciate it right. Takes time out to

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Speaker 2: do that and with no further delay. I enjoyed this

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Speaker 2: interview with TSO And if you can, if you have

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Speaker 2: the means and you can put a little something on it,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's extremely expensive to fix what's going on

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Speaker 2: in her house. Like when you go to the gofud

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Speaker 2: me and you see that first picture, you're gonna be like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what the hell?

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Speaker 3: Right? So yeah, man.

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Speaker 2: If you guys can chip in, every little bit counts

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Speaker 2: and spread the words, share the campaign online and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that with your social media.

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Speaker 3: All right, guys, enjoy this interview.

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Speaker 2: And if you premium and you heard it already before

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Speaker 2: listening again or we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: If you're not premium, Hey, this is what premium sounds like.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the so.

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Speaker 2: Many shows that we have and uh yeah, everybody else, thank.

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Speaker 5: You, you do us.

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Speaker 4: And that the leader said will use in their couplation,

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Speaker 4: the lender that will be not before amant of sums

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Speaker 4: on every night.

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Speaker 6: Da Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Medium Talk

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Speaker 6: on the Black Autist premium podcast network.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Rod and joined by a very special

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Speaker 2: guest today. I first came across this woman by looking

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Speaker 2: at Twitter when Bernie Sanders was speaking of net roots

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Speaker 2: and that was during a protest action and I went,

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Speaker 2: who is this with this fro on this day like

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Speaker 2: black power fits in the air, I was like, who

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Speaker 2: is that? And and people that know the history of

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Speaker 2: the show and Twitter and stuff know that I made

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Speaker 2: a joke about Bernie being so black because there was

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Speaker 2: a pushback towards these activists who were speaking out about

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Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter and say her name, and people got

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Speaker 2: so frustrated and mad at them, and they were just

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Speaker 2: Bernie marsh with King and so that started like a

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Speaker 2: whole thing. But since that time, I followed her on

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Speaker 2: Twitter and you know, just really been blown away by

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Speaker 2: her mind and I always love, you know, getting her

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Speaker 2: pin on things.

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Speaker 3: It's tia, oh soo, what's going on? Tya?

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Speaker 4: Hey, Rod, I'm so excited to be on the show today.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Oh.

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Speaker 3: No, thank you for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I've been just secretly stalking you for

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Speaker 2: for like two years now, so I'm happy to finally

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Speaker 2: you know, talk face to face, so to speak. So

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Speaker 2: you guys can find her work taoso dot net. You

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Speaker 2: also follow her on Twitter like I do, is at

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Speaker 2: tia underscore. Ohso, and and by the way, when I

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Speaker 2: followed you, I still remember being like, how does she

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Speaker 2: not have like a million followers? Like this is like

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Speaker 2: Twitter is just not a meritocracy, is what I'm saying, guys,

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Speaker 2: It's really.

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Speaker 4: Not a meritocracy. And then funny thing about that, I

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Speaker 4: had another like a personal Twitter, and then I made

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Speaker 4: that the Twitter account I used now after I went

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Speaker 4: to like a job search clinic and they were saying,

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Speaker 4: you got to have a professional Twitter. And so I

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Speaker 4: had more followers on my other Twitter, like my you know,

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Speaker 4: not politically correct Twitter. And then after we did the

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Speaker 4: net roots action, you know, I put one little tweet up,

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Speaker 4: like a little hint that is about to go down,

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Speaker 4: and it just blew up. And so now it's growing.

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Speaker 4: I haven't really tried to cultivate a following, and so

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Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, every follower I get is

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Speaker 4: organic and so that makes it feel good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you got and you have the blue check mark.

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Speaker 2: But you know it's just you know, as a person

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Speaker 2: of the check mark.

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Speaker 4: Blue check official, it's like a fraternity.

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Speaker 2: Us check these you know, we like to talk to

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Speaker 2: each other from time to time. And but yeah, I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you guys something. It ain't what it's cracked out

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Speaker 2: to be. Like, you end up on a lot of

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Speaker 2: people's lists that you're like, oh no, I wish you

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Speaker 2: didn't know I existed, right, You get on people's radar.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it's cool, like there are other you know, blue

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Speaker 4: check people that I feel like, you know, I get

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Speaker 4: to interact with and I would and if I didn't

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Speaker 4: have a Blue check And then there's you know, the

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Speaker 4: random trolls that pop. I was like, how you don't

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Speaker 4: have nothing else to do today?

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Yeah, I have so many filters on

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Speaker 2: at this point. I'm just like, I hope people I

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Speaker 2: love are trying to contact me.

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Speaker 3: And getting filtered out because I just can't take these folks.

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Speaker 2: Oh so, tiya, what led you to like activism as

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Speaker 2: like a cause and a lifestyle and all that stuff?

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Speaker 3: Like what's the origin story behind all that.

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Speaker 4: So my routs and activism really have to do with

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Speaker 4: number one being born and raised in Mesa, Arizona, which

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Speaker 4: for people who are not familiar, you know, Arizona is

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Speaker 4: a red state and Mesa is a very conservative place

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Speaker 4: where the people who control it are Mormon conservative people

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Speaker 4: and so very and very white, just you know, to

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Speaker 4: put it plainly. And so the neighborhood that I grew

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Speaker 4: up in was a historically segregated area. Basically there was

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Speaker 4: like the city line and then the unincorporated territory, and

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Speaker 4: they made all of the color people live in the

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Speaker 4: unincorporated territory. They called it Northtown, and so like that's

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Speaker 4: where my grandparents and my mom were raised up. And

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Speaker 4: so I was raised with kind of this you know,

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Speaker 4: awareness of like, look, this is where we live, this

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Speaker 4: is why you know this neighborhood is all black and brown.

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Speaker 4: And then my mom, ellen OsO, she was an acorn

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Speaker 4: organizer and just really active in the community, and so

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Speaker 4: she instilled in me the idea that if you want

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Speaker 4: a change to happen, you have the power. I have

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Speaker 4: the power, and I have the voice to speak up

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Speaker 4: and defend myself. And also, you know, she raised me

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Speaker 4: and my siblings to be that way because of how

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Speaker 4: really hostile, you know, looking back, she didn't use those words,

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Speaker 4: but the hostility of like growing up in a white

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Speaker 4: supremacist environment is like, you have to know how to

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Speaker 4: speak up for yourself because these white individuals will try

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Speaker 4: to take your humanity from you at every turn. And

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Speaker 4: so I had to use my voice to speak up

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Speaker 4: for myself many times, even as just a child in

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Speaker 4: the public school system there. And I have a kind

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Speaker 4: of a natural inclination toward standing up for what's right.

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Speaker 4: I was a tattletale growing up. So if I felt

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Speaker 4: like something wasn't right, or something was wrong, or I

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Speaker 4: heard somebody, you know, telling a fib I would be

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Speaker 4: naturally just out of my on my own accord, be like, no,

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Speaker 4: this is not what happened.

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Speaker 3: This is what happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a natural disdain for the tattletale, and

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Speaker 2: like even adults push that down on us, like it's children, like.

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Speaker 3: Don't be a tattletale.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time we're kinsing like stand up

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Speaker 2: for what's right, don't let anybody bully you.

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Speaker 3: Don't like such a mixed message, which is it?

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Speaker 4: So I didn't have the this I grew up, you know,

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Speaker 4: in the eighties before the snot stopped snitching, you know, campaign,

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Speaker 4: So I was my nickname was record, rewhind and replay.

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Speaker 4: I would literally tell the truth and the whole truth

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Speaker 4: at any given moment, like I had no filter. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's really how like that my natural inclination. And then

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Speaker 4: just how I was raised and being in a hostile environment,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's enough to radicalize anybody who's you know,

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Speaker 4: just even a little bit conscious. And then as a

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Speaker 4: teenager I got involved with kind of you know, diversity

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Speaker 4: and inclusion and leadership development programs. And then in twenty ten,

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Speaker 4: I was working in the arts and like public arts

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Speaker 4: advocacy and doing independent artist shows and just a part

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Speaker 4: of that world. And when SB ten seventy hit, just

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Speaker 4: me and my roommates, you know, two other black girls.

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Speaker 4: We happened to live in an area where Joe Arpayo,

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Speaker 4: the former Americapa County sheriff, used to do a lot

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Speaker 4: of his sweeps where he would literally just him and

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Speaker 4: his share of deputies would just pull over any brown

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Speaker 4: person and ask them about their citizenship and harassed them

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Speaker 4: and put them in like literal paddy wagons in the

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Speaker 4: parking lot of like grocery stores on random street corners,

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Speaker 4: and you know, being an activist in just my volunteer time,

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Speaker 4: you know, doing things like NAACP and other things like that.

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Speaker 4: I just knew that this was wrong, and so I

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Speaker 4: started to participate in the resistance that was happening in

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Speaker 4: Arizona that was led by Latino immigrant activists. I'm an

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Speaker 4: indigenous activist there, and that is how I ended up

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Speaker 4: meeting Opal Temetti, who's the executive director now a Black

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Speaker 4: Alliance for Just Immigration. She and I became friends and

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Speaker 4: a small group of us started talking about what it

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Speaker 4: would look like to organize in the black community in Phoenix.

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Speaker 4: And then eventually, just because of the political moment, you know,

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Speaker 4: her activism, our friendship, I ended up becoming a volunteer

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Speaker 4: and then organizing with Black Alliance for Just Immigration.

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Speaker 3: Wow. And there's a few things you hit on that one.

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Speaker 2: How'd your mom feel about you know, Agchorn being like

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Speaker 2: attacked and defunded and all that stuff during that scandal,

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Speaker 2: being that she worked for them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she was really upset. And I love that. You know,

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Speaker 4: my mom is not a scholar, are and wasn't you know,

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Speaker 4: a public activist at all. But her analysis was so

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Speaker 4: clear about how, you know, the takedown of Acorn was

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Speaker 4: really about consolidating conservative political power, and also the evidence

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Speaker 4: of how liberals just lack the courage of their convictions

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Speaker 4: to really stand up against really coordinated slander and smear

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Speaker 4: attacks by the right wing, and you know, just their

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Speaker 4: unwillingness to call out the fact that you know, you're

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Speaker 4: targeting this organization because they have uh in with in

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Speaker 4: their base is you know, grassroots, poor folks, people of color.

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Speaker 4: And the fact that Acorn was taken down the way

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Speaker 4: that it was and so swiftly and with no plan

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Speaker 4: of action to replace our you know, regroup. She was like,

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Speaker 4: you know, this is just a way the weakend the

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Speaker 4: progressive movement is. She is right about that, Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: It's weird because I feel like liberals or.

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Speaker 2: Like I guess the left or whatever is kind of

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Speaker 2: like Batman, where you know, like they won't kill and

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Speaker 2: they have rules and they won't violate the rules, and like,

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, there's a respect to

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Speaker 2: be had for the fact that you stand by your

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Speaker 2: integri and shit.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time there's like a it's like

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Speaker 3: but you're losing, you know, like like, yeah, it's not.

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Speaker 4: Tactical, so you have to have you can have morals,

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Speaker 4: but you also have to have tactics and strategy and

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Speaker 4: having the moral high ground but seeding actual material ground,

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Speaker 4: right and the site for justice. To me, it is

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Speaker 4: it's admirable morally and also I live in the marginalized

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Speaker 4: community that could really use a strong political.

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Speaker 3: Voice, right right, right, I'd rather win, you know, like.

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Speaker 2: Like Batman beats up the Joker and he never kills him,

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Speaker 2: so morally he's right, but then the Joker's back out

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Speaker 2: there killing people, right, So like I I'd rather win than.

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Speaker 3: Be kind of well, listen, it was kind of offensive

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Speaker 3: what you said. So we're gonna shut down.

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Speaker 2: I mean we you know, I remember when Van Jones

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Speaker 2: got let go Man, right, and I'm like.

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Speaker 3: But he didn't really say nothing. That wasn't anything, Like,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't that bad.

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Speaker 2: And now you look at, you know, the current occupants

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Speaker 2: of the White House and the things that are constantly said,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, they just care about winning, And unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it takes that sort of push back on.

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Speaker 3: The other side in order to gain any.

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Speaker 4: Ground, you know exactly, and if you notice, like the

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Speaker 4: Van Jones is an excellent example, I think there are

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Speaker 4: other examples of the kind of political casualties that the

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Speaker 4: left and liberals are willing to make, which is you know,

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Speaker 4: even touching on the net roots action and the whole

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Speaker 4: context of that and where we are now. The problem

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Speaker 4: is not that Van Jones actually was an issue. The

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Speaker 4: problem is that in order to try to appeal to

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Speaker 4: Middle American values and people's low sensibilities and understanding of politics,

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Speaker 4: they were willing to sacrifice Van Jones. They were willing

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Speaker 4: to sacrifice you know, Reverend Jeremiah right, because what the

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Speaker 4: coded language and the attacks on those activists and those

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Speaker 4: individuals is about being strong and black and political. And

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Speaker 4: you have to be palatable and black and political to

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Speaker 4: a certain extent the higher that you go up with

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Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. And so again it making those types

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Speaker 4: of concessions without having the plan how to you know,

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Speaker 4: invest in your base and strengthen your base. All you're

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Speaker 4: doing is seeding ground and seeding territory. So now Van

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Speaker 4: Jones is a pundit and an activist, and you know,

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Speaker 4: is in a whole different orientation to political activism and

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Speaker 4: resistance work. When if he had been able to remain

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Speaker 4: in the cabinet of the White House, who knows what

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Speaker 4: types of like deeply entrenched policy there would be on

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Speaker 4: the behalf of the most marginalized in our community. And

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Speaker 4: so that is really kind of textbook eret of what's

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Speaker 4: wrong with liberalism is that you're trying to play the middle.

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Speaker 4: You actually don't want to strongly represent or defend my

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Speaker 4: best interest if it's going to mean that you ruffle

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Speaker 4: the feathers of other white people.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's no there's no middle on some of this

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Speaker 2: stuff exactly. There's become like this false uh, like I

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Speaker 2: call it a performative impartiality, right, where yes, we have

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Speaker 2: to do the well, I mean, it's not like Trump

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Speaker 2: voters are always wrong or something like that. You know, like, well, well,

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Speaker 2: sometimes people do the right thing. Or let's bring on

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Speaker 2: a known bigoted racist like Jeffrey Lord and have him

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Speaker 2: have him argue with Van Jones every day of the.

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Speaker 3: Week, four hour.

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Speaker 2: And you're like, these things aren't like these aren't actual

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Speaker 2: too level talking playing fields where people are both using

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Speaker 2: facts and stuff.

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Speaker 3: This is more just us.

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Speaker 2: Pretending that they're that we can have a conversation when

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Speaker 2: there's no conversation to be had, And I feel like

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Speaker 2: that is something that as a you know, lifelong uh,

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Speaker 2: a person that is going to always probably vote Democrat

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Speaker 2: until I die because of you know, the way things

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Speaker 2: are set up in this country, the way my country

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Speaker 2: is set up, like I.

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Speaker 4: Probably set up it's gonna be a Democrat, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's gonna be real hard. I can't ever

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Speaker 2: see myself fulling the lever for a Republican. But like

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Speaker 2: it's kind of frustrating because, like I said, these conversations

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Speaker 2: quote unquote that play out does feel like the left

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Speaker 2: losers ground and it's hard to.

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Speaker 3: Defend any of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of which, you know, you brought up SB ten

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Speaker 2: seventy And for people that don't know what SB ten

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Speaker 2: seventy is, can you kind of like explain what it

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Speaker 2: was for Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So SB ten seventy was a piece of legislation

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Speaker 4: passed in the Arizona State legislature that made it a

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Speaker 4: state level felony to be undocumented, so to you know,

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Speaker 4: not have been naturalized or have some type of legal

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Speaker 4: immigration status current. And then it also made it compulsory

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Speaker 4: for law enforcement officers if they suspected for any reason

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Speaker 4: that you might be in the country undocumented, to question

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Speaker 4: you about your citizenship, and authorized law enforcement officials to

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Speaker 4: question people's citizenship. It did a lot of other things

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Speaker 4: that made it that made restrictions on what types of

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Speaker 4: state benefits people who are undocumented were able to access,

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Speaker 4: different types of contracts and things, and what a lot

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Speaker 4: of your listeners might not know. Just an education point

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Speaker 4: is that the American Legislative Exchange Council are ALEC, which

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Speaker 4: is a national policy think tank organization that lobbies and

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Speaker 4: helps to fund a lot of conservative legislators across the country.

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Speaker 4: That piece of legislation was written and crafted by ALEC,

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Speaker 4: and in particular Chris Koboc, who is now the person

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Speaker 4: who's over our voting rights in this country. SB ten

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Speaker 4: seventy is a piece of legislation that came out of

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Speaker 4: that conservative policy mail at ALEC and Arizona because it

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Speaker 4: has a super majority, GOP legislature is a testing ground

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Speaker 4: for a lot of conservative legislation because they're able to

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Speaker 4: get anything that they would like pass and so SB

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Speaker 4: ten seventy was one of those bills that they floated

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Speaker 4: in Arizona and got passed, and you know, in order

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Speaker 4: to try to make people's lives, you know, a live

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Speaker 4: in hell. Quite frankly, it's not really because Arizona was

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Speaker 4: so overrun by undocumented immigrants on welfare that you know,

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Speaker 4: the government was being bled dry. It's about controlling people

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Speaker 4: who are not white men.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: The thing too, is.

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Speaker 2: It's a unified issue for whiteness, right, like, yeah, hey,

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Speaker 2: here is another that we can pick on. And then

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Speaker 2: there's people that you know, normally wouldn't even be interested

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Speaker 2: in this stuff that are like, oh, someone I can

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Speaker 2: blame for everything wrong in my life or someone that

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 3: Feel superior to. Well, yeah, I'm on with this law.

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Speaker 2: And and I think there you know, it was you know,

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Speaker 2: undocumented people, but you know, other places it's been you know,

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Speaker 2: black people, it's been indigenous people. But it's always just

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Speaker 2: like i mean, the President of the United States at

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Speaker 2: this point, like it's it's a galvanizing cause to be

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Speaker 2: able to say, like what about these other people though,

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Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, yeah, you know what, I'll tolerate you,

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Speaker 2: I'll vote for you if if I get to feel

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Speaker 2: better than these people.

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Speaker 3: We covered so much stuff on the show at that time.

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Speaker 3: For Arizona. I just remember it was like a running.

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Speaker 2: Gag on the show just to be like like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, Arizona, they're trying to catch up with Florida.

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Speaker 3: You know, like, yeah, it was just so it was

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Speaker 3: so ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I mean it was I know, three

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Speaker 2: parts of the law was like struck down by a judge,

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Speaker 2: but still that all passed.

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Speaker 3: You know, like it's just sickens me. But you know,

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Speaker 3: it's also interesting that that was kind of a.

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Speaker 2: Start for your activism and it wasn't really about quote

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Speaker 2: unquote you specifically. You know, like a lot of people

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Speaker 2: don't even really get activated into that kind of stuff

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Speaker 2: until it's something that's directly affecting like them in particular.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that is an issue because you know, I

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Speaker 4: feel like, you know, activism wise, and it's fine to

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Speaker 4: be galvanized by something that impacts you directly. But that's

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Speaker 4: also a reason why I'm such an advocate and proponent

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Speaker 4: for political education, which is the work I'm transitioning into now,

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Speaker 4: because people have to understand systemic issues and they have

402
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Speaker 4: to understand the way that things actually do affect you.

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Speaker 4: And really, at the end of the day, we're all

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Speaker 4: connected that you know, society is an ecosystem. There's not

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Speaker 4: something happening to one person and it's not happening to me.

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Speaker 4: It's like, actually, there are impacts that are affecting everyone.

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Speaker 4: The reason why food prices are going up and other

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Speaker 4: issues that are connected towards us having working well supplied

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Speaker 4: labor industry was being affected to where you know, there

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Speaker 4: are farmers who don't have workers because of the attack

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Speaker 4: on immigrants. That doesn't have anything quote unquote to do

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Speaker 4: with somebody who's not an immigrant, but it does because

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Speaker 4: I also would like to have affordable food, you know.

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Speaker 4: So SB ten seventy was really personal to me, not

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Speaker 4: only because I grew up in a heavily you know,

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Speaker 4: Latino neighborhood, but also because legalized racial profiling isn't going

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Speaker 4: to be good for anybody who's not white. And I

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Speaker 4: could see the writer on the wall that if we

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Speaker 4: allow them to pass this law just because white people

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Speaker 4: are white people are very good at dog whistles, and

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Speaker 4: so just because somebody is saying Mexicans, Mexicans, Mexicans, we

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Speaker 4: got to get rid of them. They didn't write the

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Speaker 4: law against like SB ten seventy, they didn't write that

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Speaker 4: law against Mexicans. It said, if you who are suspected

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Speaker 4: of being in the country illegally, then the law enforcement

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Speaker 4: officer has the license to harass you. That sounds like

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Speaker 4: racial profiling. That is racial profiling, because how else can

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Speaker 4: that law be interpreted. And it's not that they're black.

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Speaker 4: People don't know they are mad undocumented Canadians and Irish

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Speaker 4: people all over the country, even in Arizona. Nobody's ever

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Speaker 4: going to ask them whether or not they're a citizen

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Speaker 4: because this is the United.

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Speaker 3: States, right exactly.

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Speaker 2: And then, you know, as a black person, I'm just

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Speaker 2: worried that, you know, I say the wrong thing, and

436
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: all of a sudden I started looking a little bit

437
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: of Mexican to this dude or whatever, you know, like,

438
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh boy, you got some mouthphone you.

439
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: I don't feel like you might not be from here,

440
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: you know, I.

441
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 4: Feel like you might not be from around here. And then,

442
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 4: you know, if you talk to black immigrant folks, that

443
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 4: is what happens is, you know, they start speaking with

444
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 4: their accent and the next thing, you know, depending on

445
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 4: the officer who they're interacting with the next thing. You know,

446
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 4: they are getting questioned.

447
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: Right exactly so that but I you know that intersectionality though,

448
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: like to be motivated by not just your plight but

449
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: just also the connection back to what will eventually come

450
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: to you, because I feel like that too. Like I

451
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: remember during the twenty sixteen election, people being like, you know,

452
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: I don't like Hillary Clinton, which you know, I understand

453
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that don't like Hillary Clinton, Like,

454
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna fight you on that, but I was like, yes,

455
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: but Trump is just worse, Like, at least for the

456
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: things I believe in, I can't imagine letting an open

457
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: bigot into an office.

458
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: I just couldn't.

459
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: I just I personally couldn't do it. But I remember

460
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: being like, even if I were to see that Hillary

461
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 2: Clinton is racially problematic towards black people, therefore whatever policy

462
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: she was gonna pass or whatever would be equally as

463
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: bad to Trump. Let's I'm not I don't think that's

464
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: the truth. But let's say I did think that was

465
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: the truth. I still have all these other people that

466
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: exists that I know are going to be affected negatively

467
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: because their policies do different right. So it's like at

468
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: this point, I'm not even really voting for myself. Like

469
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I don't want to live in a

470
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: world where I have to watch the progress that was

471
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: made in eight years for trans people, for.

472
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: For LGBTQ, marriage equality, for uh, for uh, you.

473
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: Know, the environment, right, Like I just didn't want to.

474
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: Write like like I care about Flint h I don't

475
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: live there, but I care like I you know, and

476
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't know, maybe we've kind of

477
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: lost that a little bit, or maybe we never really

478
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: had that, but.

479
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: Some of the discussion around it, it's almost like.

480
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: And maybe as a matter of fact, this will be

481
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: my next question, Like I think social media kind of

482
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: changed us a little bit, and that we all get

483
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: to kind of be the star of our own reality

484
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: show and our own pool bit, and we all get

485
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: to like soapbox for ourselves sometimes, and I think we

486
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: can become myopic that way, where it's like, well this

487
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: is how I feel, so then f everybody else, and

488
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: you know, like this is my issue, and my issue

489
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: is the most important, so nobody else's issues should matter.

490
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: Have you felt like social media change activism or change

491
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: the way people feel about it in the time that

492
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: you since like SB ten and whatnot.

493
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, I think I love the potential for social

494
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 4: media and the way that social media has allowed me

495
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 4: to be conscious of and also in some way support

496
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 4: activism and on causes that I'm not directly impacted by,

497
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 4: and also in areas where I don't live physically, so

498
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 4: you know, I learned about the killing of Oscar Grant

499
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: in Oakland. I learned about that from Twitter, you know,

500
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 4: the hashtag what's now you know, hashtag black Lives Matter

501
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 4: and other you know, issues fees must fall, like in

502
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: South Africa. I think that without social media. I know

503
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 4: that without social media, I wouldn't have been as aware

504
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: of these issues, and I wouldn't have been able to

505
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 4: connect and amplify and in some times, you know, participate

506
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 4: in activism and digital you know, advocacy, but also and

507
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 4: also social media. The kind of the legitimacy, you know,

508
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 4: the way that I feel like our human interaction works

509
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 4: and the way that our brains work. When you see

510
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: something written down or said, you know, on a video

511
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: that's coming through a platform, it legitimizes it in a

512
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 4: way to you, in a way that you know, somebody

513
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 4: you know on social media. On social media, it's like

514
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: a street corner. You know, a proselytizer and a pastor

515
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: are on the same like equal footing. Yes, yes, so

516
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: it's almost like and it's not that you know, different

517
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 4: voices shouldn't be amplified and validated. I just think that

518
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 4: are we weren't prepared to develop the kind of critical

519
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: thinking and analysis and filters to be able to really

520
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: sort information. And so that's what we see happening now

521
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: with you know, the way that Steve Bannon and you

522
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: know the Russian operators are able to manipulate people's attitudes

523
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: during the elections, is that the legitimacy that's given to

524
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 4: every voice that people come across means that if I

525
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 4: can get it in front of your eyes, I can

526
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 4: capture your attention, right, And so that is the The

527
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 4: danger is not the social media itself. The danger is

528
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: people's lack of critical thinking skills. It's people's the kind

529
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 4: of tendency to see something that is popular or how

530
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 4: many reachs, ugh, how many likes, And then also the

531
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 4: echo chamber because it's who you follow, right, so you're

532
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 4: curating the information, and so it's kind of a perfect

533
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 4: storm of helping to kind of make it seem as

534
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 4: though there's a certain opinion or a certain sentiment that

535
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 4: really isn't true our representative. The other thing about social

536
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 4: media is that, yes, there are millions of users, but

537
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 4: I don't know that it's actually representative of the average person. Right.

538
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 4: There are many people who aren't on social media or

539
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 4: they don't use it to talk politics that I think

540
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: that we really just don't know what their opinions really are,

541
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 4: and we also don't know whether or not they could

542
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 4: be persuaded differently, if we're only using social media type

543
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: platforms to interact with folks, to educate folks, to have

544
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: public discourse. You know, there used to be a lot

545
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 4: more kind of venues for political discourse. Like I was,

546
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 4: you know, we were interacting on Twitter a little bit

547
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 4: about you know, public debate. There used to be a

548
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 4: lot more public debate. There used to be a lot

549
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: more lectures. There used to be a lot more television

550
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 4: programs where people would you know, there's something to be

551
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 4: said for talking quietly. People used to like actually talk

552
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: quietly and dialogue, you know, on mainstream primetime television. And

553
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: it's not that they weren't having differing opinions, or that

554
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 4: everybody was a scholar. You know, they have Muhammad Ali.

555
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: You know, often on primetime television there used to be

556
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: a more open venue for a logical discourse. And then

557
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 4: that is what I think helped people to be able

558
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: to make up their own minds or understand issues in

559
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 4: a different way. And social media and the kind of

560
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: outrage politics and ratings, you know, manipulation that the mainstream

561
00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 4: you know, media outlets do, I think has contributed to,

562
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 4: you know, what the state of things are now.

563
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's a great point about the open

564
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: public debate too, because while there would be some gatekeeping

565
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: obviously to like who gets to be on TV and

566
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: who decided well, you know, like oh I took a

567
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: liking to uh, this particular person, so that person gets

568
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 2: to be on TV all time or whatever.

569
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 3: Right, but in general we have gone away from that.

570
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 2: I wonder how much of that is because now there's

571
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 2: so much more competition for eyes, like everything so monetized, everything,

572
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: such a spectacle, I.

573
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 4: Mean exactly, that monetization that capitalism.

574
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, like news has changed over our lifetime, right, Like, Yeah,

575
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: there was a time when you may have like a

576
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: sit down kind of uh interaction of let's bring on

577
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: these two black people and they're gonna discuss this, uh,

578
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: these current events or whatever.

579
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: And if that is, I don't think that's as as.

580
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: That gives as much attention now as if well, let's

581
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: bring on Jeffrey Lord.

582
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 3: And have him argue with Van Jones, that clip will

583
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: go viral, you know.

584
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: So I feel like the sensationalism around it because they

585
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: are selling ads.

586
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: They are you know that there is more competition now.

587
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: There's Hulu, Netflix twenty, there's probably like forty or fifty

588
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: cable TV stations now that have their own original program

589
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: and I wonder how much of that is just kind

590
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: of eroded the substance behind, you know, the value I

591
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: guess behind putting something of substance on.

592
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: Your TV, you know. And I do feel like in

593
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: a way like that stuff has moved to social media.

594
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: But as you brought up, the social media conversations are

595
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: very they're very loud in their own way, like people

596
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: aren't they are, yeah, like you're not using.

597
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: Your actual physical voice in it.

598
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: But the way people kind of attack each other and

599
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: it's more about winning and it's more about I don't know, getting.

600
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 3: The most like pats on the back and retweets and stuff.

601
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: It's very it's a very different type of arena to

602
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: have a conversation then, because I feel like in real life,

603
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 2: when I disagree with people, we're well, I would say,

604
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: for most people, when I disagree with them, we're not

605
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: that far apart.

606
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: Like the people that I do disagree with, Like if,

607
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: like if a.

608
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: Perfect example is socialism on Twitter, Like black socialism on

609
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: Twitter is very like loud and angry to me, like

610
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: towards like in my mind, I'm like, oh god, no,

611
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 2: I don't want any of that.

612
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: But then.

613
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, like when people people who are claiming, like I'm

614
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: a socialist, I'm black, and I'm mad about it, and

615
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: I'm like and I'm like, oh no, like that's what

616
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to be that, if that's what that is.

617
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 2: But then anytime I have a conversation with somebody off

618
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: Twitter and it's about that, or if I read a

619
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 2: book or something, and I'm like, oh no, no, no,

620
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: I can get with this.

621
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 3: I see why.

622
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that we can change our country

623
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: to this, Like I don't know if it's possible, but

624
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: I definitely understand the intent, and we honestly want the

625
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: same things like we Like, I.

626
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: Do want to live in a world where people don't

627
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: have to be poor, Like don't. I do want to

628
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: live in a world.

629
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: Where you know, you're not just picking winners and losers

630
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: money wise. I do want to live in a world

631
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: where I feel like marginalized people have a voice politically

632
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: as well as you know, just the right to live.

633
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: Like I don't want.

634
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 2: I don't want privatized prisons or like a prison industrial

635
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 2: complex in general. Like you know, there's things that I'm like, well, yeah,

636
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: who would be against that? I mean, at least as

637
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: a black person, I'm like, who will be against that?

638
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: But it's different, like I said, on social media, when

639
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: someone's like you idiot neoliberal shit, it's like, oh no,

640
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: I don't want to even talk to you about this, right,

641
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 2: I don't.

642
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: Even want to discuss this with you. You're calling me names, right, and.

643
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: So we are missing that.

644
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: Like I do feel like, if like if two people

645
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: that are fighting on Twitter sat down and were actually

646
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: like had a moderated debate or pan or something, I

647
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: know it wouldn't look like that.

648
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: So you're right, that is a I mean, when you

649
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 3: brought that up the other day, I was just like, yeah,

650
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: that that.

651
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: Is brilliant, Like we've never we haven't had that since

652
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: like James Baldwin and Malcolm X and.

653
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 4: You know, exactly since the sixties. The closest thing. I

654
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 4: was also thinking around the kind of the hip hop

655
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: activism era in the nineties, you know, interviews with like

656
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: sister Soljia and people like Kevin Powell and things like that,

657
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 4: Like it hasn't been since maybe I would say the

658
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: nineties where you would have like really like moderated widely

659
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 4: you know, wide public discourse on issues and not just

660
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 4: you know, kind of sound bites and again like this

661
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 4: back and forth. I also think that I've been really

662
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 4: looking into and discussing and trying to learn more about

663
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 4: this intersection around like tech and social justice because the

664
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 4: design of platforms like Twitter and Facebook and YouTube, the

665
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: monetization the algorithms you know, Instagram, also plays into those instincts, right,

666
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 4: and how our brains are wired for a gratification, for validation,

667
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 4: and so there's also something to be said about the

668
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 4: way that the platforms, the way that people interact with

669
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 4: these platforms that it's also feeding into that, and you know,

670
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 4: there are people spend millions of dollars, billions of dollars

671
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: around manipulating that without a lot of concern. I think

672
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 4: for the consequences. And I mean, and who knew that

673
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 4: the fallout from having a platform like Facebook? I remember

674
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 4: and Facebook, you know, launched and we got it at

675
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 4: Arizona State University in like two thousand and three, two

676
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 4: thousand and four. There's no way that I would have

677
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: known then that Facebook would be what it is now

678
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 4: today and would be responsible for, you know, influencing public

679
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: opinion about whether or not Hillary Clinton is a legitimate

680
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 4: political candidate.

681
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: And also like they took out ads for Black Lives

682
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 2: Matter that said the show like women holding guns and

683
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: stuff like.

684
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 4: Listen, no one could have listened. Who knew right knee

685
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 4: that you would be able to publish baseless information and

686
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 4: target people with it?

687
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 3: I thought, what was so interesting is.

688
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: Well, number one, I think what you and I are

689
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: both agreeing on is that we missed team Summit. Okay, guys, yes,

690
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: bring it back. Okay, I need it, Okay, I don't

691
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 2: even care. Yeah, I'll take adults like you can bring

692
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: the original cast back. Middle Age Summit and I'll still

693
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: watch it.

694
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 4: I love to be on an episode of Adult Summit, Okay,

695
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 4: come on, Like.

696
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: I would wear my dashiki for that guys. So uh

697
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 2: so there's that par And then also like the tech

698
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: in the Internet is a wild wild West, right and

699
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: I don't think, uh well, I don't think these companies

700
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: necessarily were malicious. I think their ineptitude and just not

701
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: knowing how bad things could get. It's absolutely still you know,

702
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: like the effect is still the same, like whether they

703
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: mean to or not, Like.

704
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: I don't think like.

705
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 4: Somebody who's not white, right and privilege might have thought

706
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 4: about it twice.

707
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was about to say, is is

708
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: the problem for me is that the people at the

709
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: top are white men typically, and the white white men

710
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: see the world is Richard Spencer is just as much

711
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 2: about freedom of speech as tooso is about freedom of

712
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: speech to them, like, those are just two sides of

713
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: a different coin, like and and that is how you

714
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: end up with what we have is that you know

715
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: Twitter now is I think right before I hopped on here,

716
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: they suspended Rose McGowan, who is an actress, the act yes,

717
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: who's speaking out against Harvey Weinstein. And Hollywood and this

718
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: environment that allowed this sexual predator to roam unchecked and

719
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: even enabled. They suspended her. Why, they just said she

720
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: violated the role. She suspended for twelve hours. She posted

721
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: a screenshot on Instagram or something, right, and they told

722
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: her she could either delete whatever the questionable tweets they

723
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: decided we're questionable, or or she could wait twelve hours

724
00:42:59,280 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: and she could.

725
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 3: Post me that's the environment that like there.

726
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: They don't see that as a biased environment, like white

727
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: men don't see that as a as an environment that

728
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 2: favors white men. The biggest sexual predator, UH, that is

729
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 2: also a president. They've never gonna they're never gonna suspend him.

730
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: Or they're never going to suspend his account, right.

731
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 3: No matter what he says, no matter what you know.

732
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: The Jamail Hill, you know, Jamail Hill gets suspended from ESPN,

733
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: and they ESPN doesn't see themselves as an extension of the.

734
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: Environment by suspending a Jamail Hill.

735
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: But allowing Sage still to talk bad about uh people

736
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: who protested at the airport when.

737
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 4: There was a banded listen. When I saw those tweets,

738
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know who safe still is.

739
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 4: I'm not a sports fan. Yeah, but who asked you?

740
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah? And like and for the record, like I like,

741
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 3: I just find the odd that he's allowed.

742
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: Who's a sports she's a sports personality, She's allowed to

743
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: get political in that moment. Jamel is political and right,

744
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 2: Jamel gets political and she has to pay. And there's

745
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: still they don't even see that that is a biased

746
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: like they see that as fairness, like, well, you know,

747
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: I look, she got too political. It's like, no, she's

748
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: all talking about stuff y'all don't agree with, Like that's

749
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 2: not the same.

750
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. I went to a form recently at

751
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 4: USC University of Southern California about sports and politics, and

752
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: there was an ESPN executive I think there also was

753
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 4: one of the panelists, and I think it's so interesting

754
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: that they want to say keep politics out of sports,

755
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 4: but it's very clearly a plantation. Really, all of America

756
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 4: is a plantation set up. And the idea that there's

757
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 4: anything neutral, I mean it's false. Like basically, white men

758
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 4: set up the parameters of what's new neutral and they

759
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 4: kind of locate themselves as the neutral party and everybody

760
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: else's bids exactly. And so that's why those algorithms are

761
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 4: set up. I don't know. I don't know what the

762
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 4: offending tweet was that Rose mcgallan tweeted. But I mean

763
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 4: there's plenty of trolls on Twitter Roman free and I

764
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 4: just don't see her I have been problematic.

765
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 3: I went through all her tweets and was just like,

766
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 3: I don't see any of them. What was the problem?

767
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: Like like, I went like, it's it's yeah, but Twitter

768
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: just decided at some point like these men feel attacked,

769
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 2: you gotta go.

770
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. Basically, it's a it's like it's like a crowdsource decision.

771
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, you got this many complaints and almost

772
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 4: like the volume of the complaints is what determined that

773
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 4: she should be suspended. That happens a lot on Facebook,

774
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 4: where it could just be a general post about Mike

775
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 4: Brown should have never have been murdered. White police officers

776
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 4: need to stop killing people indiscriminately. You banned? Yeah, what right?

777
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 2: They were like, it's racist. I've been banned a couple

778
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: of times. They're like, I'm like, what was One of

779
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: them was like I think I made a joke about

780
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: what was It was something like, uh, because I went

781
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 2: to the I was going to the Negro museums like

782
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 2: to call it. I was going to the Black Museum

783
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: in DC and I was like, oh yeah. When I

784
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: was in there, I didn't even see like a section

785
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: for the coons, and I like made a joke about, like,

786
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know Herman Kane or something, and

787
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: it was like you banned. I was like, I'm black,

788
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: Like I get to say it. Like I'm not saying

789
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 2: like I don't have much in this country, but I

790
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: feel like I get to be like can I say

791
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: the N word? I don't feel like y'all get to

792
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 2: tell me.

793
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 4: Y'all can't like you name Herman Kane when you made.

794
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: I probably did.

795
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 4: I don't even it's kind of like you was calling

796
00:46:59,120 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 4: them coon.

797
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I definitely was. I mean I don't.

798
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I understand the respectability behind it, and I

799
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: understand that it's offensive to some folks and they don't

800
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: like it, and I get it, but I know a

801
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: white person at Facebook don't get to the side.

802
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: That's all. Like if my mama came on the post

803
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: and said ride stop, go ahead to you, I'm.

804
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 4: Sorry, so please feelter my post through the black.

805
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like if my mom and my uncle wanted

806
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: to hop on my page. It'd be like, hey, can

807
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: you stop calling people?

808
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 3: Cause Okay, I get it.

809
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: But like if some if Larry in the Facebook the

810
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: department says I can't do it, I'm like.

811
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 3: No, you don't get to the side. It's our word.

812
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 4: It's like would she'd be like m m, that's not cool,

813
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 4: Like you don't.

814
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: Get to say yeah, you don't get to say it,

815
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: like somebody else got to decide. But that But that

816
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: is a very real thing though, because I've I mean,

817
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: like I said, I've been being multiple times like and

818
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: sometimes it's just for like white people, like white people

819
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: need to do this, and it's like racism, Like what.

820
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: We've done it.

821
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: This country has done such a disservice because we don't

822
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: educate anybody about racism beyond the surface. And historically, like

823
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 2: the United States, racism's rolling craft in the entire United

824
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: States and politically and everything. And so I feel like

825
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: we are now seeing so many people that literally just

826
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 2: don't know what racism is, Like white people don't even

827
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: know what it is and they and yet they're now

828
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: using they have these big platforms where there's black people

829
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: on them, and they have to deal with this stuff.

830
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: And now things are more public with social media, so

831
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: you can't hide your decisions anymore. And we're just seeing

832
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: how inept these people are because they're one. They haven't

833
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 2: been educated about it, they don't want to educate themselves,

834
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,240
Speaker 2: and they don't experience it. So to them, me saying

835
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: stuff like, you know, white people need to take responsibility

836
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: for electing Donald Trump, to them, that's racism. They think

837
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: that's the same as going all black people are thugs,

838
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: you know, like they think we're operating on equal plane

839
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: or not. And I think that's such a that's a

840
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: big hurdle for tech, as you said, when it comes

841
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: to social justice work and stuff.

842
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially because you know the coders and the developers,

843
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 4: they're coming in with limited knowledge and are the culture

844
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 4: in tech, and you know, the kind of tech bro

845
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 4: dude bro environment. I think also kind of squelches the

846
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 4: idea in the consciousness level. So people want to hold

847
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: on to their idea that the definition of racism is

848
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 4: about bad feelings and name calling and not systemic. Same

849
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 4: with sexism and gender issues, and so you have that

850
00:49:53,360 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 4: coupled with there being biased towards neutrality quo quote and fairness,

851
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 4: and so it is just as bad for you to

852
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 4: call somebody a white person as it is for you

853
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 4: to call somebody a nigger, and it is just false.

854
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 4: It is a false dichotomy that gets set up and

855
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 4: there aren't Another kind of larger piece of discourse that

856
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 4: I am very challenged and frustrated with is the idea

857
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 4: that there are sides, like there are human rights issues

858
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 4: that we're talking about and people are you know, being

859
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 4: activated by, and the idea that there are sides and

860
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 4: people kind of set up these false, you know, oppositional

861
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 4: dichotomies and give equal weight to both. You know, an

862
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 4: extreme opinion and a moderate opinion are a fact and

863
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 4: an opinion as though they're equally opposable, and give it

864
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 4: weight and value. Is a huge issue also because you

865
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 4: are not even able to argue our die on, you know,

866
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 4: in a in a genuine context, like whether or not

867
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 4: whether or not you are offended by my use of

868
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 4: the term white person. The use of the term white

869
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 4: person is not and has never been derogatory. It's a descriptor.

870
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 4: The use of the term nigger is, by the very

871
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 4: definition of it, derogatory. How is it being weighed equally,

872
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 4: except for if the person who typed the little words

873
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 4: in for the flagging right was like, oh yeah, white

874
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 4: person is just as bad.

875
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: It made you think of It makes me think of

876
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: the time Don Limit held up a sign that said

877
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: which of these is worse? And there was a Confederate

878
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: flag and the other one said the N word, And

879
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: you're like, Jesus, probably you know, probably the one you

880
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: can't say on TV. I would imagine the one that

881
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: you can't actually put on that is the one that's worse.

882
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 2: I mean, let's think about this. But yeah, but but that,

883
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: But that's that performative and partiality thing I was talking

884
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 2: about earlier.

885
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like that phrase. I'm gonna use that.

886
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, please have at it. Spread the word. Okay.

887
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: I I saw what I was watching The Daily Show,

888
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: which I still watch and I do love, and I

889
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: do think Trevor.

890
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 3: Noah is good. He's just he's getting there, guys.

891
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 4: Okay, he is, He's getting there.

892
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's new here, guys. He's a little clan

893
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: he's not American.

894
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 4: You give him a chance.

895
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 3: Like he's gonna have his moments, y'all. Like he's gonna

896
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: have his moments.

897
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 4: But also I think that there's this idea that a

898
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 4: black experience, that there is a universal black experience, right,

899
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 4: and so people try to question his blackness or the

900
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 4: authenticity of his black voice, and we need to really

901
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 4: break out of that because there's a lot of ways

902
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 4: to be black, including being you know, bi racial South

903
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 4: African immigrant. Like that's still his standpoint, is still valid,

904
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 4: and it's his doesn't take away from his blackness because

905
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 4: he doesn't see things or view things the way that

906
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 4: every other quote unquote black person does.

907
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really enjoy the Daily Show with him on

908
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: it because I said this a while ago, but I

909
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 2: feel like I'm watching someone kind of like be immersed

910
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: in our culture from an outside perspective. Yes, and he's

911
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: learning real time because I see his mind trying to

912
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: like figure out and rationalize, like figure which all of

913
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: us have gone through.

914
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 3: If you're black in America, you've gone through this. It's

915
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 3: just you went through this at six or yeah, right

916
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 3: when you were child.

917
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you didn't like he and he and I

918
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 2: think especially since he came from a place where you

919
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: did have racism, but it was just different. He's like, well, no,

920
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: you do these steps and you talk about it this

921
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: way and you get a reconciliation pan on stuff, and

922
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's still issues there. It's not like it

923
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: oh and then everything was great. But in his mind

924
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: he's trying to process it through the way he can

925
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 2: up and I'm watching as he kind of slowly goes, Oh,

926
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: this is a different monster in America exactly.

927
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 4: And that's I'm so glad that you brought that up.

928
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: That is really the context. The lack of American understanding

929
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 4: about the context of South Africa is part of the

930
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 4: reason why people don't understand where Trevor no was coming from,

931
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 4: because all we know about South Africa was Mandela, apartheid activism,

932
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 4: Mandela got free. Everything's fine. Now that is not the case,

933
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 4: right They Number one, the truth and reconciliation process that

934
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 4: they went through. There has never been such a process

935
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 4: in the United States ever. So even their level of

936
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 4: discourse around race is just more nuanced and has more

937
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 4: of a idea around accountability, but through a peaceful process,

938
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 4: right in dialogue and you know, communication, all of these

939
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 4: different things. So there's that, and then there's also the

940
00:54:55,160 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 4: added straight up ignorance of most American and of what

941
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 4: the conditions are and what that actually looks like to

942
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 4: where the power differential between black folks and white folks

943
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 4: in the United States is such that we're not even

944
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 4: on We're not even in the context of being able

945
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 4: to have a dialogue with white folks about accountability because

946
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 4: they literally deny that race is an issue, continually repeatedly

947
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,959
Speaker 4: on both sides of the political spectrum, all of those things.

948
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 4: So we can't even fathom a black person who understands

949
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 4: that there are white people who really understand that racism

950
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 4: is wrong and that racism is systemic because we live

951
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 4: in a country where they won't even admit it. They

952
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 4: say things like I'm colorblind, right right, I can't see that,

953
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 4: you know.

954
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 3: And I remember is his.

955
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 2: You know, of the Late Night People, his part where

956
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: he talked about Filando Castill to me, touch me like

957
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: that was the most that was the best courage of

958
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 2: the Filando Castill verdict that I heard, because and I

959
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 2: think it's because he was genuinely shocked, like yes, exactly.

960
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: He's like, it's like, I can't believe there's.

961
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: A country where that tape exists and this and this

962
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: officer doesn't go to jail, and those are. You know,

963
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 2: I think those are valuable moments because he is teaching

964
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: a mostly white audience through his they're watching that too. Like,

965
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 2: It's not just I already know how I felt about

966
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: it when I first heard about it, but there's a

967
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 2: lot of people that are, like, but even Trevor's affected

968
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 2: by this, and we're gonna need those folks too.

969
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 3: As far as to witness those things. How do you

970
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 3: keep your faith in people?

971
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 4: Man?

972
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: Because I know after you guys protested at Netroots, the

973
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: response on social media and stuff like that was just

974
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 2: so harsh and and in the media media like TV,

975
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 2: he is, you know, your pictures on there and there,

976
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: you know they're you know, I.

977
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 4: Just want to use this opportunity to clear, uh, the

978
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 4: discrepancy about whether or not I was paid by George Sorows.

979
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 4: I don't know received a check. If there's one available,

980
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 4: you know, you can contact me, you too receive it.

981
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: He owed me some coins too, dog. Apparently I was

982
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: an operative for Bernie so Black. Apparently I first of all,

983
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: I knew UH and planned for that to go viral.

984
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,959
Speaker 2: I you know, I typed it in and I said

985
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: uh while I and I walked away, and I knew

986
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: because you know how we always know his tweets are

987
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: gonna go viral, and.

988
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 3: And I remember it got so bad with the harassment

989
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 3: and stuff.

990
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: One time I was linked to a Reddit thread and

991
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: in the reddit thread they were like, yeah, he was paid.

992
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 3: By George Sorows And I'm like, I don't even know

993
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 3: who that is.

994
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 2: Oh right, I'm like he paid people because like what

995
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: I what I gotta do? I mean I already did

996
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 2: to work for free apparently I didn't even know. But

997
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: can I get can I get some coins on the

998
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 2: back end? Maybe it'll make up for this harassment?

999
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 3: Like what how?

1000
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 4: Like what is the like?

1001
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 3: What was that backlash like for you? After that?

1002
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 4: The backlash? So this is where I you know, and

1003
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 4: again I'm from Arizona, Okay, born and raised. I have

1004
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 4: literally faced down armed white rednecks Okay at protests. I

1005
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 4: have never feared for my life and felt threatened physically

1006
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 4: threatened until the net Roots protest because liberal white people

1007
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 4: who got angry at us for interrupting and you know,

1008
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 4: as far as they're concerned disrespecting Bernie Sanders, like Rod,

1009
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 4: I'm not exaggerating, confronted us. F zick A Lee wow,

1010
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 4: like in your face. I had a like six foot

1011
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 4: three large white man get very close to me, and

1012
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 4: I when I realized that he was, you know, being

1013
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 4: hostile and what he was saying to me, I had to, like,

1014
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 4: I screamed on him and it was like, somebody, come

1015
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 4: and get this guy.

1016
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: He's attacking me, right.

1017
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 4: And it was almost like this is what I love

1018
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 4: about black people. You know, you talk about how I

1019
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 4: keep my faith in humanity. The way that we're able

1020
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 4: to kind of coordinate and look out for each other

1021
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 4: and very quickly make the decision like okay, we all

1022
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 4: need to leave, Let's get out of here, and really,

1023
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 4: you know, had each other's back instinctively. Really helped me

1024
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 4: to understand that the issues that we're talking about again,

1025
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 4: it might be fun and cute and tweets for some people,

1026
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 4: but this is about our humanity as black folks in

1027
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 4: the diaspora. And may it, you know, never be made

1028
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 4: as clear to you as being shot or having to

1029
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 4: defend your right to call out these issues to other

1030
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: white people, because it was it. If I wasn't already

1031
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 4: you know, a radical and woke and all that other

1032
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 4: good stuff, like that moment did it and I know

1033
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 4: it did it for a lot of other black folks,

1034
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 4: and even the discourse on Twitter like Bernie soul black

1035
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 4: hashtag will live in infamy because of how it just

1036
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 4: captured the hypocrisy of white folks of all sorts, but

1037
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 4: especially those people who call themselves like the friendly white

1038
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 4: folks who are quote unquote on your side. I didn't

1039
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 4: know they's aside to my humanity, right. And the way

1040
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 4: that I the way that I keep my faith is

1041
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 4: that you know, I have faith in God. I'm a believer,

1042
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 4: and I know that the work that I'm doing, the

1043
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 4: work I've been privileged to be a part of through

1044
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 4: black lives, for just immigration, the people that I've met,

1045
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 4: you know, this is a call that is on my

1046
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 4: life is to advance justice and love. That's my That's

1047
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 4: what I'm here to do. And I know and understand

1048
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: through having you know, work directly with being a directly

1049
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 4: impacted person myself and working with other directly impacted people,

1050
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 4: I see just the beauty and the strength that we have,

1051
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 4: and I know that if that's what exists within us,

1052
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: there has to be hope. There has to be and

1053
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 4: that's how I you know, how I keep my perspective

1054
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 4: is not just on looking at how bad things are

1055
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 4: and how sordid and you know, far from God. So

1056
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 4: much of humanity is. I keep my perspective on, you know,

1057
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 4: how beautiful and powerful and resilient folks are in the

1058
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 4: face of systemic oppression. And I really have to, you know,

1059
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 4: you know, keep my mind stayed on Jesus because I

1060
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 4: have to be honest. When I woke up on January first,

1061
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 4: the first time in my mind was, oh, I can't

1062
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 4: stand white people like Dation day. Yeah, And that was

1063
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: like my thought, and I said, oh, no, to you,

1064
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 4: this is no.

1065
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

1066
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 2: It's funny because I feel like people that are activists

1067
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 2: and stuff like, I'm sure like it's overwhelming cynicism that

1068
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: you have to face, you know what I mean, because

1069
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: you do have to watch how many people in the

1070
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: world that are just like anti you like, as a human,

1071
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 2: as a concept, at a human being, at a record label.

1072
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 3: They'll just ADDTI you. But something motivates you to.

1073
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 2: Get up and believe that people can change, or at

1074
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: least be made to change, made aware.

1075
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 3: You know. Harriet Tubman like literally.

1076
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 2: Had visions of God like h like I remember James

1077
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 2: Baldwin says he had hope because he wakes up and

1078
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: every day and like, as long as I'm alive, I

1079
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 2: gotta have hope.

1080
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 3: Like like that's the two choices.

1081
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: So yes, it's interesting to uh you know, because I

1082
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 2: lose my faith in people so easily at times.

1083
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 3: I'm just like, man, this is why we deserve the

1084
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 3: ship we have, because y'all a ship. And then.

1085
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 4: But but.

1086
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 2: Right, but but there are moments and and people that

1087
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: do inspire me. And You're you're definitely one of those

1088
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 2: people that. Uh so yeah, man, you that was like

1089
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: super like not just the net the net roos thing,

1090
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: but just you know, as a as a human being,

1091
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: Like you're a very inspirational figure. Also, the other thing

1092
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 2: that I think is funny when it comes to like

1093
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: uh getting our uh like having helping people.

1094
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 3: I feel like we need inspirations.

1095
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 2: Like are there people that haven't inspired your activism or

1096
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 2: that inspire you like kind of every day.

1097
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely. So you know, I shared about my mom

1098
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 4: ellen O, so who was my first example of what

1099
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 4: it means to like stand up for justice, Like and

1100
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 4: my mom literally like rousted a crack house out of

1101
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 4: our neighborhood. She used to be like community cleanups where

1102
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 4: we would literally like walk the streets to the neighborhood

1103
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 4: and pick up trash and broken glass and things like that.

1104
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 4: And she's really the she's my personal example and also

1105
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 4: just the epitome of how hard black women will go

1106
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 4: for the community. And so she inspires me. You know,

1107
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 4: Harriet Tubman for sure, really the radical resistance of you know,

1108
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 4: enslaved African people who led uprisings and like you know

1109
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 4: Nat Turner clean Nanny of the Maroons, like resistance stories

1110
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 4: where people were like, give me liberty or give me death,

1111
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 4: you know, and I know it's a super you know colonial.

1112
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 2: Give me liberty as a white man, or give me death.

1113
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: Liberty for me specifically and no one else and no

1114
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: one else.

1115
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:19,439
Speaker 4: But just me, you know, about how people want black

1116
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 4: folks to protest peacefully. But this country has literally been

1117
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 4: overthrown at least one time and almost twice.

1118
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: Right right, right, white people right just because they was mad,

1119
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 2: like angry, I had enough over taxes, like not even

1120
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 2: like actual injustice, but like what is fifteen percent?

1121
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 3: Like I'll read.

1122
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 4: Also opal to Metti, my sister, my nig just sister

1123
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 4: who you know, we literally people don't know, like it's

1124
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 4: all glamorous and cute now. And you know, she's a

1125
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 4: co founder of Black Lives Matter. She's actually the one

1126
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 4: who helped to create the platform that Black Lives Matter,

1127
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 4: you know, lived on her proliferated through and like did

1128
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 4: a lot of like the structural organizing for Black Lives

1129
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 4: Matter to exist. And she and I used to meet

1130
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 4: in like church parking lots in Phoenix and try to

1131
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 4: figure out, like how were we going to get these

1132
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 4: black people together, Like people don't know the things that

1133
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 4: we have been through in the trenches together. And so

1134
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 4: she definitely inspires me every single day as well. And yeah,

1135
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 4: just loads of other black women who just put the

1136
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 4: culture on their back for a lot of reasons. You know,

1137
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 4: Cardi b inspires me, like just I feel like a

1138
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 4: lot of there's not a lot of reverence, our respect

1139
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 4: for hood individuals, and there's a lot of respectability politics

1140
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 4: that goes into you know, what it means to be

1141
01:06:55,160 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 4: upstanding our role model, our inspiration. And I come from

1142
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 4: a very you know, hood around the way background, and

1143
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 4: just because I'm able to articulate myself, well, it's not

1144
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 4: something that people assume about me necessarily, and I just

1145
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 4: feel like there's no reason that we need to kind

1146
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 4: of sanitize ourselves in order to assert our humanity, Like

1147
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 4: we can be our full selves.

1148
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like so much of at least the

1149
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 2: place I'm at in life right now, is about understanding

1150
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: and loving us where we are and then pushing us

1151
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: to be you know, like I want us to be better.

1152
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 2: I think everyone in life should be trying to be

1153
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: better than they were yesterday.

1154
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 3: I don't think that's so controversial to say.

1155
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 2: But also like loving us where we are, and like,

1156
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 2: sometimes I think about the critiques of our community and

1157
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: how much of it is just unfair and how like

1158
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 2: what's fair and what's not fair? Right, Like I think

1159
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: it's fair to say we can treat each other better.

1160
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 2: I don't see how that's you know, like a horrible thing,

1161
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 2: the thing, but you know, it's unfair to say like

1162
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 2: we're pathologically uh criminal, Like it's hell, it's unfair to

1163
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,120
Speaker 2: expect there not to be a diversity of opinion. Like,

1164
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I'll see people kind of articulate a

1165
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 2: nuanced point, and uh, they'll get jumped on because they're

1166
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 2: not in lockstep with what we decided that blackness should

1167
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 2: be on at that time.

1168
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 3: But but they're not.

1169
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: But they're not you know, and I know I made

1170
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,640
Speaker 2: a joke earlier, but they're not koons like they're not

1171
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 2: I hate you niggas and y'all are holding us back

1172
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: as black people. Like it's but they'll say something like

1173
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, uh, you know, uh, it's difficult for

1174
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 2: me because my cousin was killed and uh in a

1175
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 2: gang shootout. So sometimes you know, and I'm like, I

1176
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 2: don't want to dismiss your emotions behind that, because obviously

1177
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 2: that's fucked up, that's terrible. But sometimes I think we're

1178
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: so scared that that black person is gonna either reject

1179
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 2: us or they're gonna or they're gonna parrot some like

1180
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 2: white supremacist talking point, and so we jump on them

1181
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: to get them back in line.

1182
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1183
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 3: But it's like you brought up about.

1184
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 2: About like debate and intellectual like discourse and quiet conversations.

1185
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 2: I do kind of feel like I want to be

1186
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 2: more towards the quiet conversation. I want to have more

1187
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 2: discussion rather than debate because of that, like I want,

1188
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 2: you know, the reason we have this platform. I want

1189
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 2: to go away from the spectacle of fighting each other.

1190
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 2: But You're right, we pick and choose our phase. I

1191
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: think a lot of sisters love Cardi B. And they

1192
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,600
Speaker 2: really lift her up now because it is kind of

1193
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,560
Speaker 2: a rebellion, you know, like there was a like, I

1194
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 2: don't know that Cardi B Is a perfect person, obviously

1195
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 2: know one is. And so it then becomes to some

1196
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,799
Speaker 2: people about like tearing her down and wherever her anything

1197
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: she's ever said or done that's you know, out of line.

1198
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 3: She they like people are looking for the tweets like

1199
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 3: they just exposed, right, And I'm like, but y'all, do

1200
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 3: realize people are celebrating her because she's not the.

1201
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 2: Codified blackademic like filtered, focused group, tested have the right

1202
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: answer all the time.

1203
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 3: Person, Like that's why they love her.

1204
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 4: You know.

1205
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 2: When Beyonce got super duper woke on the last album,

1206
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: even though she's never shot away from blackness, but that

1207
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 2: last album was like black awn, you know what I'm saying, Like, and.

1208
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 4: Beyonce is like, I am grown and we are going

1209
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 4: to talk about.

1210
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 2: It, right, And I remember people kind of like coming

1211
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 2: at her from these like almost like blackademic angles of

1212
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 2: like and I'm like, but this ain't that. Like, we

1213
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: have to learn to love people because we're not all

1214
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 2: going to be the same. And there's a lane for

1215
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: the like, there's a lane for the bell Hooks as

1216
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 2: well as.

1217
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: The Beyonce like.

1218
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 2: They don't have to be at odds like I don't

1219
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 2: think they have. It has to be about one of

1220
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 2: them is right, the other one is wrong.

1221
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 3: It has to go.

1222
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: But I feel like we often get into that, you know,

1223
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 2: I love so and so, but I hate this other

1224
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: parson because they disagree, and uh that that's a fine

1225
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 2: line of balance, you know.

1226
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 4: Now, it definitely is. And yeah, you brought up so

1227
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 4: many good points. I really think that at the root

1228
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,919
Speaker 4: of a lot of it, a lot of the turmoil

1229
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 4: that we have in our communities and this kind of

1230
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 4: wrestling to make folks told a certain line you know

1231
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 4: that has roots in colonization, honestly, and the way that

1232
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 4: we were able to resist and the you know, civil

1233
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,799
Speaker 4: rights movement and assimilate into this country was to create

1234
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 4: a quote unquote like a you know, United Front and

1235
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 4: a unified front. But that appealed to whiteness and white sensibilities,

1236
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 4: and so that's where the you know, dressing up for

1237
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 4: the civil rights marches and things like that comes from

1238
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 4: and because that's a way that we were able an

1239
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 4: avenue we were able to use through you know, respectability

1240
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 4: and decorum and being civilized, because that's a way that

1241
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 4: we were able to fight for our you know, humanity

1242
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 4: in this country and in other countries. I think that

1243
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:12,840
Speaker 4: that's still that policing of what's dignified and what's respectable

1244
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 4: and who gets to be the face of our community,

1245
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 4: who gets to be a leader in our community, and

1246
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 4: who we look up to. I think a lot of

1247
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 4: that pours over and spills over into it. And the

1248
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 4: issue that I take with it, especially like critiques of

1249
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 4: folks like Beyonce or Nicki Minaj or Rihanna our Cardi

1250
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 4: b is that most people, because of the you know,

1251
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 4: just like class structures of the United States, most black

1252
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 4: women right are less than academically you know PhDs, right.

1253
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 4: Most women enjoy you know, music and laughter and fun

1254
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 4: and being sexy and q and yes, wearing weave and

1255
01:12:54,520 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 4: nails sometimes. And it shouldn't be such that I have

1256
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 4: to be serious and neutral and you know, assimilate to

1257
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 4: white ideals in order to be respected and you know,

1258
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 4: like you said, there are several lanes that we can

1259
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 4: all be in. We shouldn't have to fit into certain

1260
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 4: molds in certain boxes in order to I feel like

1261
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 4: it's really about trying to justify our humanity. And then

1262
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 4: when we attack each other in that way, when we

1263
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,640
Speaker 4: don't make room for one another, our whole space for

1264
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 4: one another in a certain way unless we agree with

1265
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 4: each other, it's like, well, you know, like everybody's being

1266
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 4: dragged or that person's trashed or this person's canceled, and

1267
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 4: it's like, in real life, you don't need to be

1268
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 4: x out of the community because we don't happen to disagree.

1269
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 4: Like I feel like there's a way for us to

1270
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 4: again this is you know, organizing philosophy. There has to

1271
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:00,560
Speaker 4: be a way for us to agree on certain conditions

1272
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,640
Speaker 4: that we're trying to work to meet and then have

1273
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 4: a diversity of tactics and strategies to get us there.

1274
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 4: And if the reason why you want freedom, if what

1275
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 4: freedom and liberty looks like to you is to not

1276
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,600
Speaker 4: have any type of gun violence in your community and

1277
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 4: you're less worried about police violence, that's fine, actually and valid,

1278
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 4: and it doesn't invalidate your blackness to be like that.

1279
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in a neighborhood where there

1280
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 4: was drive bys and we had to sleep on the

1281
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 4: floor sometimes. And I understand what people are saying when

1282
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 4: they say, you know, these are the things that I'm

1283
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 4: actually more concerned about than police violence. What's not okay

1284
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 4: is when we use those arguments against one another and

1285
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 4: not against the system. And like this is I'm just

1286
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 4: such a stickler for a political education and critical analysis.

1287
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 4: Is that we have to understand actually what's at the

1288
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 4: root of it. The root of you know, intra community

1289
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 4: vibe is not because black people have a problem.

1290
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 3: Right exactly.

1291
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 2: I remember interviewed Kendrick Lamar did and I like, listen,

1292
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 2: I love Kendrick, but as you know, he also a

1293
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 2: nigga from Compton that grew up with his friends getting

1294
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 2: killed over gangshit. Like he doesn't have the distance from

1295
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 2: that to theory to come up with these broadsweeping academic

1296
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: theories of Like to him, it's just I like, I

1297
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 2: don't I look at myself and go, why what's the

1298
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 2: value of a black life If I'm willing to take

1299
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 2: one over a piece of street that's not even mine,

1300
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,440
Speaker 2: and then I want to turn around and judge somebody else.

1301
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 3: Without even thinking about what that means for me.

1302
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: Like to me, I'm like, Wow, that's a deep philosophical

1303
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 2: question from a dude that you know, you know, it's

1304
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 2: just a quote unquote, just a rapper.

1305
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 3: Like I love that he's doing that introspection. I think

1306
01:15:58,200 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 3: a lot of us should.

1307
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 2: And instead it's like, well, you know, white people are

1308
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 2: gonna hear that and think that it's okay to kill

1309
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 2: black people with the police.

1310
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh fuck, Like.

1311
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 4: We're so worried about what white people are Yeah, right,

1312
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,560
Speaker 4: Like the discussion, I feel like, yeah, can we just

1313
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 4: accept And also because we we give a platform and

1314
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 4: give like a greater weight to what you know, rappers

1315
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 4: and other athletes and other people like that say, why

1316
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 4: couldn't we just take Kendrick's comments for what it was? Like,

1317
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 4: this is his perspective and his opinion, and you know

1318
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 4: it lacked an analysis of colonization and systemic racism in

1319
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 4: what he said in that sound bite. Okay, fine, why

1320
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 4: can't we just take it for what it is?

1321
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 2: I said at the time, I was like it would

1322
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: be disingenuous for me disingenuine for me to be.

1323
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 3: Like, uh, I mean, first of all, nobody gets canceled.

1324
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 3: I don't like we I don't know. I really wish

1325
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:58,799
Speaker 3: people would even stop saying it, because.

1326
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got stuff saying nobody's everywhere all the hashtag canceled.

1327
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 2: I don't everybody's still around like they just pop up

1328
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 2: and I'll be like, oh damn, I guess it didn't work.

1329
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 3: So listen what well the thing is?

1330
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 4: Though?

1331
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 2: It's I felt like a lot of people are being

1332
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 2: dishonest because we have those conversations intra community all the

1333
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 2: time all the time. But he said that shit didn't

1334
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone and it was like, no, we see right

1335
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 2: what the white people are gonna think.

1336
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, the white people don't care. Guys. If they care,

1337
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 3: we would have had solved this already, Like you.

1338
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 4: Know what white people do is the Fox News is

1339
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 4: and the rush limbas who isn't it interesting? Oh? There

1340
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 4: is so many things I want to talk about with you.

1341
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 4: Isn't it interesting how rap music is trash and low culture,

1342
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 4: but if a rapper says anything, it could be weaponized

1343
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 4: to explain the condition immediately.

1344
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 3: Listen.

1345
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 2: That was the thing that was weird about eminem at

1346
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 2: the bat a wars well gosh, because I saw like

1347
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 2: black people argue with each other, and I was like,

1348
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 2: I absolutely refuse to argue with another black person of

1349
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 2: an eminem.

1350
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 3: I'm not doing it.

1351
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 2: Too much stuff like you have whatever opinion you have,

1352
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 2: have it, like, I'm not even trying to fight you

1353
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 2: over it. What I thought was interesting was I felt

1354
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,559
Speaker 2: like the conversation all started because white people paid attention

1355
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 2: to this one hip hop cipher because a white dude,

1356
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 2: because it dude, yeah, like I and you know what

1357
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 2: if that was the whole purpose was for him to

1358
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 2: be talking to white people about Trump.

1359
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, mission accomplished. I'm out.

1360
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 2: It just literally has zero to do with me. Gather

1361
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 2: your own as they say, like gather your own.

1362
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 3: Folk, and I'm done with it.

1363
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 2: But I do think the the other point I want

1364
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 2: to make is sometimes this is fine line between jealousy

1365
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 2: and justice, Like what like what are we feeling envious about?

1366
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 3: Like someone's platform the ten and they got money, you know, and.

1367
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 2: Then there's justice, right Like for example, I remember after Formation,

1368
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 2: uh when Beyonce before and that at halftime and just

1369
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 2: like stole, I forget who was Was it cold Play?

1370
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 3: Was it YouTube?

1371
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 2: I don't know who it was, but yeah, just ganke

1372
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 2: They halftime like it became to Beyonce formation halftime.

1373
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 3: I think someone else was there too, but I don't remember,

1374
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 3: but that's who it was.

1375
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 2: Mars there but yeah, but nobody, Yeah, nobody cared and

1376
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 2: she ganked that halftime and I remember being like one

1377
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 2: super inspired because she literally put that song out the

1378
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: day before and stole my whole afternoon. And then, you know,

1379
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:49,559
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe somebody was doing something so black at

1380
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 2: the super Bowl, like just oh my. Like I kept

1381
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 2: being like, are they gonna shut it down? Are they

1382
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 2: gonna make her wear something different? Are they gonna be

1383
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 2: mad about her dances or dancers out there looking like

1384
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 2: black panthers? I said, having it and within like I

1385
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 2: would say, a day or so, I started reading the

1386
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 2: think pieces because, uh, you know, on our podcast, we

1387
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 2: definitely do stand for Beyonce and the some of the

1388
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 2: stuff I'm like, this isn't even about her, It's about

1389
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 2: jealousy that she's kind of in her in your lane

1390
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 2: a little bit. Like there was a guy who wrote

1391
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 2: a book, a think piece that was like, well, Beyonce

1392
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,680
Speaker 2: is still a capitalist and her da da da da leoliberal, this,

1393
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 2: that and the other. And I was like, yeah, but

1394
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 2: at the end of this article, you're linking me to

1395
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 2: sell to your book, like you won't go by, like

1396
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 2: you ain't doing nothing for free either, Like it's very

1397
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 2: like no one person is above the economic system of

1398
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 2: our country. Like I don't think if we're gonna change

1399
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 2: our country's economic system, it won't be because one person

1400
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,960
Speaker 2: was like, and you know what, I am gonna change

1401
01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 2: the way the world works, like like if somebody right,

1402
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,559
Speaker 2: like it would take such a massive coalition and honestly

1403
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:06,240
Speaker 2: a lot of white people to make this country reform

1404
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 2: in that way. So until then, get your coins, like

1405
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 2: and you're trying to get yours off of her, so

1406
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 2: what it like, it's the same thing.

1407
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 4: And then it clicked.

1408
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:18,560
Speaker 3: Then there was you know, it's been a couple of

1409
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 3: years and they clicked.

1410
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 2: At that moment, I was like, oh, this is jealousy,

1411
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 2: Like this isn't there's a difference, Like there's there's a

1412
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 2: there's a this thing isn't right and and blah blah blah,

1413
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 2: and then there's a well this is the right point.

1414
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 3: But I don't like who's making it.

1415
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 4: I don't like who's making the point. Yeah, and there's

1416
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 4: a lot of So I feel like the critiques of

1417
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 4: in particular, Beyonce's activism are really rooted in misogyny and

1418
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 4: anti blackness because they create, uh, they set a different

1419
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 4: bar for her to meet, Yes, when all she's doing

1420
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 4: is expressing, you know, using her artistry and yes, her

1421
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 4: platform that she's amass through her own volition right in labor.

1422
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 4: This is what she chose to do with her time

1423
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 4: and talent. They said a bar that's unattainable or a

1424
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 4: bar that she wasn't even trying to meet, in order

1425
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:16,880
Speaker 4: to critique her. And so I think that critical analysis

1426
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 4: is important, but using critical analysis to attack a person

1427
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 4: that's beside the point, Like Benance never said I'm the

1428
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 4: most woke you know, socialist and I'm bringing down the

1429
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 4: system by performing at the super Bowl. That's not what

1430
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:35,719
Speaker 4: she said, right, She's I am, you know, Beyonce the artist,

1431
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:38,519
Speaker 4: and I'm going to use my visibility and my platform

1432
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 4: that I have earned to bring attention to these issues

1433
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 4: in this particular way. And I feel like that whole

1434
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 4: year of performances that she did the Grammys performance comes

1435
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 4: to mind with her and Kendrick doing freedom like that

1436
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 4: was the blackest thing to see on the Grammys that

1437
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 4: you know, black dancers dress like you know, sexy black

1438
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 4: panthers standing in the exformation and the super Bowl. Listen,

1439
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 4: She's putting the culture on her back in her way,

1440
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 4: and you do you And I feel like it also

1441
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 4: has to do with this kind of sense of competition

1442
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 4: and degradation. As an academic, why are you not poised

1443
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 4: and ready for when somebody makes a cultural intervention? This

1444
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 4: is about now culture like strategy. When somebody makes a

1445
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 4: cultural intervention and opens up a space as an academic,

1446
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 4: you should be ready right to come in and educate

1447
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 4: and engage folks, And instead you've set yourself in opposition.

1448
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 4: Like I was joking with a friend of mine. I

1449
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 4: was like, people don't know that there's gonna be weave

1450
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 4: at the revolution, Like there's gonna be weaving twerking, Like,

1451
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 4: instead of setting yourself up in opposition to the people

1452
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,719
Speaker 4: who are now being awoken to these issues, you should

1453
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 4: be thinking beyond set.

1454
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like there can only be one And I.

1455
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 2: Feel like that shit is out the white gays, cause

1456
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 2: white people only see us a little at a time, right,

1457
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 2: Like they're like Coats, that's the black guy to go

1458
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 2: to for race, right and.

1459
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 3: Right, and then I'll watch us as black.

1460
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 2: People kind of turn on slowly, and I'm like, yeah,

1461
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, y'all do know that he didn't like, wake

1462
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 2: up and go the white people gonna love this book.

1463
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 3: I'm sure when he wrote that he was like, yeah,

1464
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,439
Speaker 3: they not gonna ever fuck with me again. But it's cool.

1465
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 3: I had to get this truth out.

1466
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 2: And then black al you know, he's on Colbert and

1467
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 2: they're being like, well, do you have hope?

1468
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 3: And he's like, hell no, have you seen this country?

1469
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,640
Speaker 2: And I'm like, why are we turning upset at him

1470
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:43,920
Speaker 2: when it's Beyonce? Why are we turning upset at her?

1471
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 3: Like, if anything, we need.

1472
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: More representation, we need more voices, we need like I'm

1473
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,720
Speaker 2: not pushing to take the one person down that got through.

1474
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 2: I'm trying to push three more people through so that

1475
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 2: we look and go, look at this taviestry of black

1476
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 2: ex an opinion all together right now, Like look at that.

1477
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 3: That's that's the goal for me.

1478
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I said, it's a thin line between

1479
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:11,640
Speaker 2: like that jealousy and that justice because I really feel like,

1480
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 2: you know, if we examine where that stuff comes from.

1481
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 3: Internally, I feel like we'll get to a healthier place.

1482
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 3: And I had to do it.

1483
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people have to do it.

1484
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,800
Speaker 2: Where you know, there's certain people that make you an

1485
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 2: eyeball itch, you know, because you feel like they're the

1486
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 2: only one, you know what I mean, where you're like, like,

1487
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 2: I don't like do I have a Like I disagree

1488
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 2: with a lot of things, like say a Charlemagne or

1489
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 2: Steve Harvey says, or like.

1490
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 3: I disagree with a lot of that stuff.

1491
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 2: But my ultimate goal would be to have other voices

1492
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 2: out there that are being like, oh no, no, no,

1493
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 2: this is why this is I disagree with that, or

1494
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 2: here's another place you can go for an opinion from

1495
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 2: a black man that isn't so toxic, you know, Like

1496
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 2: I need that too, Like I can't it can't just

1497
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: be about let's tear.

1498
01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 3: This guy down and now we have no voices like

1499
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 3: now we got to have more. So that's you know,

1500
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 3: that's my goal.

1501
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:06,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I really appreciate that. And I think you know,

1502
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:11,200
Speaker 4: podcasts in general, and especially your podcasts and the work

1503
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 4: that you're doing is contributing to that and just strategically

1504
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:19,920
Speaker 4: and you know, energy wise, it's a much better use

1505
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 4: of our time and energy. And it's also it's a

1506
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 4: it contributes to a more expansive way of being to

1507
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 4: you know, add and to multiply and to have a

1508
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,600
Speaker 4: diversity of voices and opinions instead of taking time and

1509
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 4: energy to to take somebody down, are drag someone specifically

1510
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:46,920
Speaker 4: from the standpoint of where I feel like a lot

1511
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:51,480
Speaker 4: of the academic analysis comes from, you know, they're theoretically

1512
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 4: they're trying to point these things out in advancement of

1513
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 4: the cause. So you should also we should just ask

1514
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,080
Speaker 4: ourselves like is this going to advance the cause? You

1515
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 4: know that I'm trying to do.

1516
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 2: What is the cause?

1517
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 3: Even Moore like is the cause just me getting another

1518
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 3: speaking fee? Because I'm like, what, like, what is the cause?

1519
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 4: Especially within the Black Lives Matter, you know movement, a

1520
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 4: lot of people's issues and beef with each other. Is

1521
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 4: that is somebody's getting a lot of shine, somebody's getting

1522
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 4: a lot of speaking engagements now, people writing books and

1523
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:28,440
Speaker 4: right making movies and things. And some of the motivation

1524
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 4: at the heart of it is a hate, you know,

1525
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 4: and jealousy and envy because I can you know, say

1526
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 4: again that the it's not usually a lot of it

1527
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 4: is not stemming from like actual political ideological differences. It

1528
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 4: just isn't pretty much, I would say, with the exception

1529
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 4: of maybe like like somebody like Dray, where people are

1530
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,799
Speaker 4: like he's neoliberal, right, But a lot of the issues

1531
01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 4: that people take with it is his visibility because if

1532
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 4: he was a neoliberal, nobody knew you have a problem, right, Yeah.

1533
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 2: And honestly, like that's also the white gays thing because

1534
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 2: white people have decided like, hey, we're gonna call him,

1535
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:11,759
Speaker 2: he's on the short list of people we want to interview.

1536
01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 3: He's you know, like he's the guy whose tweets.

1537
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 2: We're gonna put on our TV show. He didn't get

1538
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:19,720
Speaker 2: to decide that, you know, someone somewhere else did that.

1539
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 3: Like I don't know Deray like that.

1540
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 2: I like, I don't know a lot of activists, I

1541
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,640
Speaker 2: quote unquote know a lot of activists, you know what

1542
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like I know of their work, I'm not

1543
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,919
Speaker 2: really I'm friends with a couple people that are activists,

1544
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 2: but it's to me, like I try to stay out

1545
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:40,640
Speaker 2: of the best thing, because I legitimately one don't know

1546
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 2: who is I'm supposed to feel like is fake or whatever.

1547
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: What I do know is a lot of people's work

1548
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 2: is good work as far as the.

1549
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 3: Goals of it. Right, So, like, is the world better

1550
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 3: served by there being no deray? I don't think so.

1551
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 2: I think the world is better served by him doing

1552
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 2: this thing. Should he be the only person that people know?

1553
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 2: Like it should be more than like, it should be

1554
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 2: more room for than just one person. And I don't

1555
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 2: know that he would be responsible for like if he

1556
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 2: went away, I don't think it would just go and

1557
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 2: now everyone else can come in and just be like

1558
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 2: and now we pick another one person exactly.

1559
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 4: We have to understand, you know, And I'm really big

1560
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 4: on really understanding and having like a power analysis. Dra

1561
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 4: doesn't control the means of production, right, right, So he's

1562
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 4: not the one who is the actual gatekeeper. He's going

1563
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,200
Speaker 4: through the gates that are being opened for him. Those

1564
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,600
Speaker 4: gates were open for him because of certain you know,

1565
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 4: channels and certain systemic you know of conditions, and also

1566
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 4: because of you know, the political context that we're in,

1567
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:54,800
Speaker 4: and like you said, like we really have to you know,

1568
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 4: understand that if he wasn't there, It's not as though

1569
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 4: I would be the one, and you know that would

1570
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 4: be on like you know, all the nighttime talk shows,

1571
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,680
Speaker 4: you know, laying down my analysis. I don't know if

1572
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,599
Speaker 4: that is ever going to occur. I mean, I would

1573
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 4: love to, but I don't know that, especially given that

1574
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 4: I'm the girl who introduced, you know, the term systemic

1575
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 4: racism right right, I don't know that they want to

1576
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 4: give me another mic. I'll have to take the next

1577
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 4: mic yo.

1578
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:26,519
Speaker 2: Also, But on the real though, that's one of the

1579
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:31,240
Speaker 2: things that I always kind of point out is like, well, who.

1580
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 3: Gets through the gate. It's still got to be a

1581
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 3: person with the ability to make people comfortable, right, It's

1582
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 3: a skill and it's also.

1583
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 2: While it can be a hindrance, it also has also

1584
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:45,679
Speaker 2: gotten progress for people in the past.

1585
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:49,679
Speaker 3: Like it depends on the person and depends on the cause.

1586
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,320
Speaker 2: But you're not the people who keep the gates open

1587
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:55,640
Speaker 2: are never gonna like that's why, Like people are like

1588
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,240
Speaker 2: going back to Trevor No, Like I don't like that

1589
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 2: they got this dude, nonh And I'm like, okay, here's

1590
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 2: the thing. Whoever got that spot black or white? They

1591
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 2: weren't gonna be your super woke militant.

1592
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 4: Larry Wilmore's show.

1593
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 2: Listen, And I loved that show for that show, and

1594
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 2: I still I remember when they got canceled. I was

1595
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 2: on Twitter and I was like, man, I really hate

1596
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 2: that the show got canceled. What about all these black voices.

1597
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 2: I hope they find places, And they are finding places.

1598
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:28,120
Speaker 2: Robin Thiet show starts tonight, so like they're finding places

1599
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 2: and that's that's beautiful. But some of these people I

1600
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 2: may never see again, Holly Walker, Mike Yard, like the

1601
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:38,000
Speaker 2: older black comedians, like they don't get the second and

1602
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 2: third chances to be on TV.

1603
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 3: So like I'm gonna miss those guys.

1604
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:43,360
Speaker 2: Like I was really sad when it's canceled, and I

1605
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 2: remember saying that and then like songs like well what

1606
01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:48,080
Speaker 2: about that one show where he said this thing?

1607
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, that was you know, bad show,

1608
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 3: bad take.

1609
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 2: I didn't agree with it, and you know, and it's

1610
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 2: like when that's why I'm glad they canceled, I was like,

1611
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 2: all right, I don't even know what to say, Like

1612
01:31:57,280 --> 01:31:57,640
Speaker 2: what is the.

1613
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 3: So then the show that place? Right, I'm like, you

1614
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 3: do know the show that takes their place, won't be

1615
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 3: a black show.

1616
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:06,800
Speaker 4: So if the point is they have a new show

1617
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 4: coming in and it's not, the point is that now

1618
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 4: we have one less right last platform, right like I.

1619
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 2: You know, and then, like I said, I struggle with it,

1620
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 2: but I'm trying to learn to love people where they are,

1621
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 2: especially like some people are just younger, they're we all

1622
01:32:24,160 --> 01:32:24,679
Speaker 2: went through.

1623
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 3: Them like super like I'm black, y'all.

1624
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 2: All, I'm black y'all, Like everybody's gone through that, so

1625
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 2: I do understand the sentiment, but I'm like, I guess

1626
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 2: I'm at a point where I'm like, i'd rather have

1627
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:37,760
Speaker 2: the black show that gets it right most of the

1628
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:40,799
Speaker 2: time and they mess up sometimes like all human beings,

1629
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 2: then the white show that I'm not I don't even

1630
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 2: want to watch, Like I don't even like, I'm not

1631
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:49,640
Speaker 2: even interested in that show now because I'm like I

1632
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 2: had this beautiful blackness.

1633
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 3: For a year and a half and it's gone, you know, so.

1634
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:56,960
Speaker 4: Exactly like I have no intention of watching that show.

1635
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, now soever the all right, so the last thing,

1636
01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:03,639
Speaker 2: I know, we went over time. But I've enjoyed talking

1637
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:05,200
Speaker 2: to you so much me too.

1638
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 4: We didn't get to talk about how black men hate you.

1639
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 2: Oh, man, listen, I love black people and I love

1640
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 2: being a black man so much.

1641
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 3: Like if they knew, I feel like it wouldn't be

1642
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 3: this way.

1643
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 2: But but yeah, So people that are out there that

1644
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 2: listen to show you already know the straight black men

1645
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:32,000
Speaker 2: tweet I had. But I'll tell you this though, Man,

1646
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 2: it has died down since I muted that.

1647
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 3: Tweet, and.

1648
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 2: I feel like slowly more people are having to at

1649
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,760
Speaker 2: least shut up cause it's getting so bad, you know

1650
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 2: what I mean. Like it's like like every week there's

1651
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 2: like another thing where you're like, isn't that interesting that

1652
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 2: this black man decided to say such and such?

1653
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, I do think.

1654
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 2: It's like pulling teeth when it comes to getting black

1655
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:05,080
Speaker 2: men to let go of misogyny and patriarchy because we

1656
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 2: really do think it serves us, you know what I mean,

1657
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 2: And it doesn't.

1658
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 4: And it's a power source in the construct that we're

1659
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:13,639
Speaker 4: in and when we decide to you know, get free

1660
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 4: and really to colonize. I've been really enjoying the four

1661
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 4: for four discussions and discourse around that, the four for

1662
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 4: four syllabus, and just the videos that content that jay

1663
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 4: Z produced because we don't. You know, a lot of

1664
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:34,320
Speaker 4: times when black men are talking about you know, misogyny

1665
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:36,560
Speaker 4: and just issues that they're dealing with, it is like

1666
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 4: your Twitter battles with people. It's like, you know, a

1667
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 4: black man who's holding the line and a black man

1668
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:44,599
Speaker 4: who's like, I just think that we should treat women

1669
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 4: with respect.

1670
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:47,559
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's a prison.

1671
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 2: It's as much and like you were saying, we're all

1672
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:53,719
Speaker 2: connected and this isn't that all struggles are equal necessarily,

1673
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,640
Speaker 2: but it is just as much of a prison for

1674
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 2: us holding on to as it is for what we

1675
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 2: do to other people. Like obviously what we do is worse,

1676
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 2: like you know, killing somebody is worse than your hurt

1677
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 2: feelings or whatever, but but it's rooted.

1678
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 4: In your captivity. Yeah, we can't be that black men.

1679
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 4: Black men don't get to talk about right that right

1680
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:20,320
Speaker 4: and existing in that.

1681
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,760
Speaker 2: We can't be fully formed human beings, like we're not

1682
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 2: allowing ourselves to be human.

1683
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 3: And it's no one's doing this to us.

1684
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 2: This is us, like we you can free yourself of

1685
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 2: that if you're listening listening to this right now, like

1686
01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:34,479
Speaker 2: you don't have to hold onto this, like I'm trying

1687
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 2: to let go of so much of the stuff I've

1688
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 2: been programmed in my life because you know, what, what

1689
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 2: is the value of something that's holding me back?

1690
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:41,280
Speaker 4: Right?

1691
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 2: Like, and and it's different for every person, but I

1692
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 2: examine certain things. I'm like, I don't need to hold

1693
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:49,680
Speaker 2: onto that I don't even believe in that. So I

1694
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 2: do wish people and I think people are starting to.

1695
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 2: But like this dragon tooth and nail, it's it's kicking

1696
01:35:57,000 --> 01:36:00,439
Speaker 2: and streaming and screaming for this whole thing.

1697
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:02,879
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, getting too The thing I was gonna.

1698
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,600
Speaker 2: Say is a uh, the take a knee protest that

1699
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:09,640
Speaker 2: people are doing for the NFL, right, which you know

1700
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:11,519
Speaker 2: a lot of black men got activated by that, like,

1701
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:13,439
Speaker 2: oh they told they told Kaepernick he.

1702
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 4: Can't have a job. Listen, you know it's serious. People

1703
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 4: who know like black fraternity life, it's real life. You

1704
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 4: know it's serious when kappas are organized in a protest. Yeah,

1705
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:26,720
Speaker 4: that's how you know something is really going down.

1706
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's like, listen, all of us are working now,

1707
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 3: and we are. But I always kind of.

1708
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:36,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, side out that protest a little bit

1709
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 2: because of how it like when it came to that

1710
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,639
Speaker 2: one topic, like a lot of black men got super militant.

1711
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:47,920
Speaker 2: But I'm like, what about the rampant abuse and misogyny,

1712
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 2: what about the you know, like all these other issues

1713
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 2: within the NFL before this that no one gave a

1714
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 2: fuck about.

1715
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 3: And it was like, well, just shut up, we here

1716
01:36:58,520 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 3: now and us you know.

1717
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 2: I was like, to a certain extent, I'm like, you

1718
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 2: know what, the bigger great, the greater good is that

1719
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 2: y'all are here now.

1720
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 3: Maybe this will saying something. And then like Cam Newton

1721
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 3: calls a woman a.

1722
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 2: Female or Ezekiel Elliot accuse of domestic violence, and I

1723
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 2: watch everyone go right back to like and I'm trash again.

1724
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, and I'm trash now again. You know what,

1725
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,640
Speaker 4: but that has a lot to do. I've been just

1726
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 4: learning more, you know, and trying to understand the dynamics

1727
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 4: between black men and women really from our own personal development,

1728
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:30,920
Speaker 4: and really a lot of that has to do with

1729
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:34,879
Speaker 4: that you know, masculine energy of like dominance and control

1730
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 4: and like fiercely defending, you know. And so that's why

1731
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 4: we could ride out for cap because this is wrong

1732
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 4: and just like I'm a black man, he's a black man,

1733
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 4: and that's it. And so it's like it comes from

1734
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:49,759
Speaker 4: a place of you know, defending, which that that strength

1735
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 4: is necessary. But again, you know, when you look at

1736
01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:54,439
Speaker 4: like the creation of like Black Lives Matter are other

1737
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:57,559
Speaker 4: things that black women lead, we come from a place

1738
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,120
Speaker 4: of like for the greater good, right, and from like

1739
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:04,560
Speaker 4: a more holistic standpoint. And that's why we need this

1740
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 4: shift and we need to wrestle through these things because

1741
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 4: it does end up actually opening up space for even

1742
01:38:12,439 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 4: black men to also be more fully themselves and fully human,

1743
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 4: and that's what it's about. But for people who are

1744
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 4: so strongly identified with the dominant mindset of masculinity, it

1745
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 4: feels like a threat, right, right.

1746
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that today. I was like, I

1747
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:32,439
Speaker 2: was reading my friends Facebook post and she was saying

1748
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:34,760
Speaker 2: how it was a joke, but it was you know,

1749
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 2: there's always a little bit of truth in human right.

1750
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:40,600
Speaker 2: She was like, I'm finally at a place. She was like,

1751
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:43,040
Speaker 2: every time I see a black woman, if she's with

1752
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 2: a white man or something like, I'll be.

1753
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 3: Like, gone ahead, girl.

1754
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 2: And then she was like, well, if I see a

1755
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:49,679
Speaker 2: black man with a white woman, She's like, I finally

1756
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:51,840
Speaker 2: come to a healthy place where I could say he

1757
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:55,880
Speaker 2: ain't that cute, and it cracked me the hell up, Right,

1758
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:58,320
Speaker 2: But then I was thinking about this, and I was like,

1759
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:04,679
Speaker 2: it's weird because because of how we're conditioned via gender,

1760
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 2: It's like women are just bred and taught and ingrained

1761
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 2: and like nurture to be the support system, right, Yeah,

1762
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:18,599
Speaker 2: and men are by just by the nature of how

1763
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 2: we treat women immediately put in a situation where we

1764
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:23,960
Speaker 2: go and women are here to support us, right, are

1765
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 2: here to.

1766
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:26,599
Speaker 4: Support me exactly just to receive the support.

1767
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 2: Right, So there's no like loyalty quote unquote to that,

1768
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 2: because it's not like only black.

1769
01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 3: Women are nurtured that way.

1770
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 2: All women are nurtured to be are told to basically

1771
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 2: be a support system for some man at some point,

1772
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 2: Like that's your life goal is to then turn around

1773
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:47,759
Speaker 2: and support some dude, right, I Like, I don't find

1774
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:49,960
Speaker 2: it wrong to teach people to nurture.

1775
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:50,959
Speaker 3: I think that's beautiful.

1776
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:53,640
Speaker 2: I just find it idd that we don't see it

1777
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:55,920
Speaker 2: as a masculine trade or something we would want to

1778
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,759
Speaker 2: teach men too, Like we'll teach men to provide quote unquote,

1779
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:02,160
Speaker 2: we'll teach men to protect. But even within that, there's

1780
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,040
Speaker 2: a hierarchy, right, I'm providing for you, which puts me

1781
01:40:05,200 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 2: above you, above you, exactly, I'm protecting you. This also

1782
01:40:09,080 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 2: puts me above you.

1783
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:10,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1784
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:13,320
Speaker 2: But when I'm looking at like these marches and stuff,

1785
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,559
Speaker 2: like when there's a march for black women, it's only

1786
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 2: black women out there. Well, you know when a sister

1787
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:22,960
Speaker 2: gets shot by the cops, there's so many black men

1788
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,640
Speaker 2: that will then turn around and start like sounding like

1789
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:28,719
Speaker 2: white people with the whole like, well, why was she why.

1790
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:32,560
Speaker 4: What does she say? Why does she have an attitude?

1791
01:40:32,800 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 3: Exactly? Yeah, I.

1792
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:38,160
Speaker 4: Noticed that specifically with the case of corn Gains. And

1793
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 4: then there's a woman at Arizona State University, professor Ursula,

1794
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:45,680
Speaker 4: I can't remember her last name right now, who was

1795
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:52,240
Speaker 4: assaulted by ASU Arizona State University Police Department officer and

1796
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,320
Speaker 4: the discourse and it wasn't just black men. Black women

1797
01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 4: get in on it too, who were really like legitimately

1798
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:02,880
Speaker 4: questioning whether or not she should have had such an

1799
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 4: attitude and all of these things. I was like, this

1800
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:08,560
Speaker 4: man dragged her to look around and assaulted her for jaywalking.

1801
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:11,679
Speaker 4: And I went to Arizona State University that wasn't even

1802
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:14,800
Speaker 4: a thoroughfare the street that she was crossing wasn't a

1803
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:19,080
Speaker 4: busy street, right, Yeah, it doesn't even hospitality. Why are

1804
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:23,000
Speaker 4: we debating whether or not she deserved that treatment? And yeah,

1805
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:26,680
Speaker 4: it's just so there's so many layers to it, and

1806
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:29,320
Speaker 4: a lot of it has to do with not because

1807
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,040
Speaker 4: you know, there's a difference between genders, but because of

1808
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:35,320
Speaker 4: the lack of balance, the lack of respect, because of

1809
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:38,519
Speaker 4: like the hierarchy that subscribed to it, and also because

1810
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 4: we live in you know, a patriarchal system, the privilege

1811
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 4: that is ascribed to men that also absolves them from accountability. Right,

1812
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:53,160
Speaker 4: so if a woman is less than nurturing or somehow

1813
01:41:53,240 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 4: doesn't meet a societal standard of you know, women's role

1814
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 4: in society, she will be dragged. But if a man

1815
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:03,679
Speaker 4: doesn't provide for his family, if a man is less

1816
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 4: than you know, chivalrous, are courteous, or you know, doesn't

1817
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 4: defend someone in a certain situation, his man has not

1818
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,439
Speaker 4: taken from him at a society level, the way that

1819
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:17,000
Speaker 4: women who don't you know, break our backs for everyone

1820
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:19,320
Speaker 4: else are questioned and judge.

1821
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 2: It's why we questioned Amber Rose's motherhood but never, but never,

1822
01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 2: Whiskalifa's fatherhood right right, right, Like they both out in

1823
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:30,519
Speaker 2: the clubs, they both out and stuff like that's how

1824
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:31,400
Speaker 2: they make their money.

1825
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 3: Like I ain't regretting neither one of them.

1826
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:37,679
Speaker 4: But it's funny exactly. It's always what what about your son?

1827
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 4: Right right? My daddy's whisky?

1828
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 3: Right, Like, what about my daddy? I need hell? On

1829
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:45,640
Speaker 3: both sides, you know, on.

1830
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 4: Both sides are like with the future in Sierra and

1831
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 4: their ties, and people were so like just dragging her.

1832
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 4: You know, she's not worthy of Russell Wilson's love. Oh

1833
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 4: she's disrespecting future as a father. He disrespected himself right,

1834
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:06,080
Speaker 4: just placed his own self and the fact that it's immortalized,

1835
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 4: you know by jay Z forever. I just feel like

1836
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:10,160
Speaker 4: I feel like we won that one.

1837
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 2: It's like good, yeah, you know, you know you brought

1838
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,160
Speaker 2: up four four four earlier, and that was a conclusion

1839
01:43:16,240 --> 01:43:18,040
Speaker 2: I came to at four four four was just like

1840
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:21,360
Speaker 2: you know, ultimately, I'm just glad Jay got here, Like

1841
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:25,280
Speaker 2: it took him along trip, Like boy, that's a long

1842
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,240
Speaker 2: trip and I know he still got ways to go.

1843
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:30,400
Speaker 2: And now I'm sure everything wasn't you know, perfect in

1844
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 2: the academic stance and all that I know there had

1845
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:34,920
Speaker 2: to be some problems.

1846
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:37,000
Speaker 3: I saw people that still were resentful of the.

1847
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:41,040
Speaker 2: Society that will applaud the growth of a fifty year

1848
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:43,559
Speaker 2: old man as opposed to what we say about young women.

1849
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 3: I get all of it, I really do.

1850
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:48,760
Speaker 2: But damn, man, I'm so glad you finally got there.

1851
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 2: Like maybe somebody will listen, you know what I.

1852
01:43:51,479 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 4: Mean exactly exactly That's how I feel. I feel like,

1853
01:43:54,280 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 4: you know all, I will let other people make all

1854
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:59,719
Speaker 4: the critiques, and I, you know, will snap right along.

1855
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,640
Speaker 4: And also I am glad that the black man that

1856
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:07,519
Speaker 4: other brothers respect God there space because the Lord have mercy.

1857
01:44:08,040 --> 01:44:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1858
01:44:08,880 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I said, man, we're bred to we're

1859
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 2: not bred to see nurturing as a positive as men.

1860
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:18,760
Speaker 2: And I think that's a huge that's a huge disadvantage

1861
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:20,920
Speaker 2: to us because we need not only do we need

1862
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 2: it as far as as a skill. Right, It's like

1863
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:26,080
Speaker 2: how people go, well, if you're a man, you need

1864
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:27,240
Speaker 2: to learn how to cook for yourself.

1865
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:28,120
Speaker 3: I agree.

1866
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:30,720
Speaker 2: I don't know why only women will learn be the

1867
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:32,400
Speaker 2: only people to learn how to cook. That doesn't even

1868
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:35,040
Speaker 2: make sense. Half the people are not women, like learn

1869
01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 2: how to cook. That's cool, but we don't extend it

1870
01:44:37,960 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 2: to other stuff that we call women's work. And women's

1871
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 2: work stuff is normally like the emotional labor and things

1872
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 2: of this nature. Like, we need to learn those skills too,

1873
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 2: the valuable skills I have to be supportive and to

1874
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 2: be especially if you're going to turn around and be

1875
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:55,640
Speaker 2: half or you know, whatever your relationship stuff is, if

1876
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:57,200
Speaker 2: you want to be half of someone's life.

1877
01:44:57,960 --> 01:44:59,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, dog, you need to learn these skills too. It

1878
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,680
Speaker 3: can't you be one way, but listen, or.

1879
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:04,680
Speaker 4: If you want to, you know, be the president of

1880
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:06,679
Speaker 4: the United States, it might be useful.

1881
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:07,839
Speaker 3: It might be useful.

1882
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:10,160
Speaker 2: It might We see what happens when you put one

1883
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 2: of these totally totalitarian you know, fake ass alpha.

1884
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:17,559
Speaker 3: Man males in charge man.

1885
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:21,600
Speaker 2: That is low key though, like and I know you

1886
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:23,840
Speaker 2: didn't even really get into your politics like that, And

1887
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 2: I apologize because I know we've gone over time, but

1888
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 2: low key.

1889
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,639
Speaker 3: I always like Obama because of how much he loved Michelle.

1890
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 3: Like low key, like, I like, I understand, you know,

1891
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 3: he bombed at you.

1892
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of negative things that people are

1893
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:41,320
Speaker 2: gonna have to say, and I think a lot of

1894
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:43,400
Speaker 2: it's just the results of that office, Like I don't

1895
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:46,599
Speaker 2: think anyone's ever going to occupy that office that I'll

1896
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:49,040
Speaker 2: be like, and that person did a perfect job, Like

1897
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:51,920
Speaker 2: I'm always be like yeah, and that you know, they

1898
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 2: did this thing and they did that thing, but low

1899
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:58,639
Speaker 2: key that like the imagery of that family and seeing

1900
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 2: especially contrast to now seeing a family that like a

1901
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:04,559
Speaker 2: couple that's seen to have genuine love for each other,

1902
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 2: And uh, I don't know, like that'll always stick with

1903
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:12,519
Speaker 2: me more than probably any policy or anything you ever

1904
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:17,280
Speaker 2: like a scandal free eight years with him loving the

1905
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:21,160
Speaker 2: hell out of three black women in his life and right,

1906
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,720
Speaker 2: you know, a dude that was a feminist and outspoken

1907
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,880
Speaker 2: and all that stuff and not scared and uh, like

1908
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,800
Speaker 2: I wish more people would have embraced that part of

1909
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 2: him as far as because you know, people like the

1910
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,880
Speaker 2: imagery of oh black man in office, Yeah, a black president.

1911
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:39,840
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, okay, brothers, but what about like

1912
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:44,080
Speaker 2: his his his his his allyship to lgbt Q movements,

1913
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 2: what about his love for black women?

1914
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 3: What about his uh you know, uh the.

1915
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:56,080
Speaker 4: Fact black children, yes, you know, the environment, his diplomacy,

1916
01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,479
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of a lot of there there

1917
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:05,439
Speaker 4: is symbolically and you know, kind of energetically a lot

1918
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:08,519
Speaker 4: of value to what the Obama presidency brought to us.

1919
01:47:09,439 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 4: You know, we have been talking for a while, and

1920
01:47:11,479 --> 01:47:12,600
Speaker 4: you know, you can have me back on and we

1921
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:16,880
Speaker 4: could get dig into we know, politics more. But yeah, no,

1922
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:19,880
Speaker 4: I I am on the same page as you about

1923
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 4: that for sure.

1924
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:21,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, we gotta do that.

1925
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 4: Man.

1926
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 3: I didn't know this was gonna go so great. So

1927
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:26,600
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I was like, oh my god, like

1928
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:27,559
Speaker 3: talk to old friend.

1929
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:30,519
Speaker 2: But listen, guys, you want more of this, follow to

1930
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 2: you on Twitter, act to your underscore. Also go to

1931
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:36,840
Speaker 2: her website to ya also dot net. I know you're

1932
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:41,880
Speaker 2: also speaking now you're also, uh, is there any other

1933
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,000
Speaker 2: place that people can find you?

1934
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:46,160
Speaker 4: Folks can find me out. I have a Facebook page

1935
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 4: to you, ohso, and I'll be posting a lot of

1936
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:54,200
Speaker 4: just you know, I'll be hosting more updates soon. I

1937
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 4: from you know, all my activism and organizing and then

1938
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:02,040
Speaker 4: the cherry on top of last year's election, I kept

1939
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 4: taking myself off the front line of reorganizing and giving

1940
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:08,880
Speaker 4: myself a break in a sabbatical this year, and so

1941
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,720
Speaker 4: I have a lot of things in development that I'll

1942
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:15,439
Speaker 4: be you know, rolling out. But right now I've just

1943
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:17,160
Speaker 4: kind of, you know, giving myself a break, you know,

1944
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 4: pulling off my super black Woman cape for a little while.

1945
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,840
Speaker 4: So yeah, folks can tune into my Twitter, Facebook, and

1946
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 4: the website for updates and things.

1947
01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 2: Two things about that. One, I understand, Okay, it's open

1948
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:36,040
Speaker 2: season out here. Be careful, people, like this is not

1949
01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 2: like this ain't like before you know what I mean,

1950
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:42,760
Speaker 2: It's not it's not, so yeah, be careful out there.

1951
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 2: And then two, thank you. You know you, like I said,

1952
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:51,120
Speaker 2: you're an inspirational person and you do so much. And also,

1953
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, when you got on that stage, man,

1954
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:58,880
Speaker 2: I was just so inspired. And I remember whenever I

1955
01:48:58,920 --> 01:49:02,479
Speaker 2: would get interviewed at doors, it was so funny, like

1956
01:49:02,640 --> 01:49:04,360
Speaker 2: we want an interview about this cheering the hashtag. I

1957
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 2: was like okay, but I wasn't even on the stage.

1958
01:49:06,720 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 2: I didn't like what about that though, Like let's go

1959
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:11,200
Speaker 2: back to the end. I was like the name droving

1960
01:49:11,240 --> 01:49:15,479
Speaker 2: people and they were still like, uh, they're just so sloppy,

1961
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 2: like the media is so slack. Like I would be like, well,

1962
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,600
Speaker 2: y'all should interview to ohso like y'all should interview.

1963
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:22,280
Speaker 4: And they're like, yeah, that's nice.

1964
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:26,000
Speaker 2: Yes, and then and then in the article they'd be

1965
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:28,560
Speaker 2: like black Lives Matter activist Rod Marrow was like, no,

1966
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,160
Speaker 2: I ain't no, I didn't know, do not put that

1967
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:32,360
Speaker 2: on me, like.

1968
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:35,720
Speaker 4: Black Lives Matter activist except for the co founders and

1969
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 4: the people.

1970
01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:39,560
Speaker 2: That oh my god, man, like I like, I know,

1971
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 2: you talked about the organizing of it, which is like

1972
01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:47,639
Speaker 2: a brilliant structure, but oh my god, the media completely

1973
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 2: just like threw.

1974
01:49:48,840 --> 01:49:51,120
Speaker 3: That away, like they were just like, nope.

1975
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 4: That's compute to have. And you know, I really learned

1976
01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 4: a lot about this since the time. It doesn't compute

1977
01:49:57,160 --> 01:50:02,880
Speaker 4: to have an uninvited, you know, full figured, nappy haired

1978
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:08,000
Speaker 4: black woman running things and being the center of attention.

1979
01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 4: And it was almost as though trying to filter all

1980
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 4: of that through all of our lenses. Everybody was just

1981
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 4: like so, And also part of it is the kind

1982
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 4: of what we're talking about as far as black women's

1983
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:26,519
Speaker 4: labor being expected. It's like, oh, well, they did that,

1984
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:28,840
Speaker 4: and now we get to decide how we feel about

1985
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:31,120
Speaker 4: it and talk about it, and we don't really necessarily

1986
01:50:31,200 --> 01:50:33,880
Speaker 4: need to ask them. I would say, shout out to

1987
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:37,080
Speaker 4: Mark Lamont Hill. He's one of the folks who did

1988
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,800
Speaker 4: invite myself and some of the other organizers that had

1989
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:42,920
Speaker 4: us on Huffington Post Lives like right after and a

1990
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:45,720
Speaker 4: couple of other times. There are a couple folks who did,

1991
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:49,120
Speaker 4: you know, get it, gave it the courteous y right

1992
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:53,479
Speaker 4: of a follow up discussion. But yeah, there's just just

1993
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,840
Speaker 4: a it's a case study in media analysis, it is.

1994
01:50:57,120 --> 01:50:59,599
Speaker 2: And I know, strategy wise, there were people that are like, well,

1995
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 2: we don't want to do interviews yet, or we don't

1996
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 2: want to go on every outlet and stuff like like

1997
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:06,960
Speaker 2: I get that, but in an absence of people doing

1998
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:08,840
Speaker 2: an interview, I still don't understand how you then turn

1999
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 2: around and be like, well, listen't any black person we

2000
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:12,720
Speaker 2: talked to just calling black Lives Matter?

2001
01:51:12,920 --> 01:51:15,800
Speaker 3: Like like how did that? How did that stuff happen?

2002
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 2: Like wouldn't it just be like, well, we couldn't get

2003
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 2: a spokesperson for Black Lives Matter, but we got Disney bro,

2004
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:21,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

2005
01:51:21,920 --> 01:51:24,200
Speaker 4: And you know, because the thing is I feel like

2006
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 4: that's the beauty of you know, just black people. We're

2007
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:31,240
Speaker 4: just we are magical. You know, people act like black culture,

2008
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 4: black politics, black everything just appears out of cent air.

2009
01:51:35,120 --> 01:51:38,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and apply it.

2010
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:43,680
Speaker 4: However, I would like, ohs, that looks beautiful. These are

2011
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:48,040
Speaker 4: now box breaks that matter. That sounds catchy.

2012
01:51:50,040 --> 01:51:51,840
Speaker 3: That's what they mean. Black Black lives.

2013
01:51:52,040 --> 01:51:54,760
Speaker 2: They're like black girls are magic because they're invisible. We

2014
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:55,639
Speaker 2: don't even see them.

2015
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:58,320
Speaker 3: We just take their work and we just pop up.

2016
01:51:58,400 --> 01:51:58,719
Speaker 4: Guys.

2017
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 7: Real is it a figment of Oh yeah, their magical

2018
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:08,759
Speaker 7: like that Harry Potter cloak where you just disappear like okay,

2019
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:11,080
Speaker 7: all right, guys, thank.

2020
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 3: You so much, Titya, thank you so much for being here.

2021
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 3: We appreciate it. I gotta have you on the regular show.

2022
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hit you up about that, so you can

2023
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:19,760
Speaker 2: come out here from behind the paywalld and talk to

2024
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 2: all the people and like I said, follow her work

2025
01:52:23,479 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 2: and we'll be back with another one of these soon.

2026
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 3: Until then, peace out,