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Speaker 1: In our last episode, we covered the story of David

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Speaker 1: Parker Ray. He would later be known as the Toy

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Speaker 1: box Killer. Today, we're picking up the story with David

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Speaker 1: Parker Ray and his girlfriend Cindy Hendy facing more than

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Speaker 1: two dozen charges for kidnapping and torturing three women. It

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Speaker 1: happened in his homemade sex dungeon in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the New Mexico Desert.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to pick women who he could control, who

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Speaker 2: he could scare, who he could hurt.

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Speaker 1: At this time we knew of three victims, but that

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Speaker 1: number would skyrocket. He kept journals and videos of his

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Speaker 1: forty or so victims.

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Speaker 3: David Parker Ray, when he was finished with those victims,

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Speaker 3: would kill them.

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Speaker 1: The testimony of the three women who miraculously made it

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Speaker 1: out alive was the key to prosecuting him.

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Speaker 4: The victims, what they endured is just.

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Speaker 5: It's unbelievable and so unbelievable that there were so many

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Speaker 5: people when they were first told, didn't believe it was true.

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Speaker 1: Not just the people who first heard it, but the

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Speaker 1: jury as well. They weren't so sure what they were

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Speaker 1: hearing was true either.

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Speaker 2: This is one of those cases it's like, until you

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Speaker 2: did that last piece of the puzzle. There's really nothing

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Speaker 2: else to do with it.

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Speaker 1: My name is Sloane Glass and this is American Homicide.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to part two of The Toy Box Killer

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Speaker 1: and a warning that this episode contains graphic descriptions of

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Speaker 1: sexual assault and violence. Discretion is advised. At the time

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Speaker 1: of his arrest in nineteen ninety nine, David Parker Ray

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Speaker 1: was fifty nine years old. He was a mechanic for

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Speaker 1: the New Mexico Parks Department and lived in the tiny

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Speaker 1: town of Elephant Butte, New Mexico, where he was very well.

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Speaker 2: Liked, so he definitely had a sense of power of

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Speaker 2: authority in that plafe.

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Speaker 1: Alex Tomlin was a local news reporter.

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Speaker 2: He's this legendary figure here for all the wrong reasons.

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Speaker 2: You know, the joke all the time in the newsroom

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Speaker 2: is the worst criminal you are, they give you all

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Speaker 2: three names.

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Speaker 1: David Parker Ray grew up near Albuquerque. He was a

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Speaker 1: bit of a loaner who was picked on at school.

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Speaker 1: He was a strange from his mother and only occasionally

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Speaker 1: saw his alcoholic father, but he spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with his father's true detective magazines. They covered crime stories.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the first of its kind. David

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Speaker 1: said his fantasies about assaulting young women began when he

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Speaker 1: was flipping through those pages. Then came his fascination with pornography.

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Speaker 1: David's sister found his stash of pornographic pictures and hand

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Speaker 1: sketched drawings of women tied up and tortured. When she

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Speaker 1: questioned him about it, he left it off and said

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Speaker 1: it was his new hobby. As a teenager, David Parker

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Speaker 1: Ray even claimed he killed a woman, although there's no

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Speaker 1: record of it ever happening. After high school, he bounced

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Speaker 1: around from town to town taking jobs as a mechanic.

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Speaker 1: He worked on cars, trains, and even fixed airplanes for

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Speaker 1: the army. He was married and then divorced four times.

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Speaker 1: He was a father and had a daughter named Glenda

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Speaker 1: Jean Ray, who went by Jesse Ray.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can't imagine what it's like to be

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Speaker 2: the daughter of the embodiment of Satan, so I have

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Speaker 2: to imagine her life was not an easy one.

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Speaker 1: Jesse didn't see much of her Dan since he was

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Speaker 1: always on the road. She grew up into a biker

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Speaker 1: check who drove a motorcycle and wore blue jeans with

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Speaker 1: a black leather vest. She shot a lot of pool

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Speaker 1: and was a regular at the local bars in the

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Speaker 1: dusty town of Truth or Consequences, which is a blip

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Speaker 1: on the radar and located right next to Elephant Butte.

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Speaker 1: Back in nineteen eighty six, when she was just nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old, Jesse went to the FBI with a warning

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Speaker 1: about her dad. She claimed that he had been abducting

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Speaker 1: and torturing women, then selling them to buyers in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: The FBI investigated for over a year before closing the

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Speaker 1: file citing a lack of evidence. David Parker Ray was

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Speaker 1: never charged with anything later went on to work for

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Speaker 1: the state, so even after this tip to the FBI,

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Speaker 1: he was able to get away with it. And who

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Speaker 1: knows what really happened to make Jesse come forward, but

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Speaker 1: she later claimed that she had made that story up.

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Speaker 1: Jesse said he owed her money from when the two

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Speaker 1: used to sell pot together. She wanted revenge, and then

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Speaker 1: at some point their relationship changed.

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Speaker 5: Jesse Ray reported him, but it's clear after that she

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Speaker 5: became an active participant.

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Speaker 1: Darren White worked for New Mexico's Department of Public Safety.

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Speaker 5: Jesse Waver she was her dad's recruiter. She would go

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Speaker 5: out and she would look for targets.

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Speaker 1: So Jesse Ray went from turning her dad into the

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Speaker 1: FBI to recruiting victims into the Toy Bob. So not

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Speaker 1: only was David Parker Ray's girlfriend involved in kidnapping his victims,

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Speaker 1: but so was his daughter. Following David's arrest in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine, investigators located dozens of videotapes in the toy box.

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Speaker 1: One tape showed a slender woman with long blonde hair

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Speaker 1: shackled to a table with duct tape covering her eyes.

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Speaker 1: This woman had a distinctive tattoo on her right ankle,

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Speaker 1: and that tattoo led investigators to Kelly Garrett. Kelly Garrett

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Speaker 1: is an important figure in this story. Once a happy newlywed,

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Speaker 1: her marriage was destroyed by an event she couldn't even remember,

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Speaker 1: a story no one believed. Even she doubted what had happened.

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Speaker 1: But it all started with a girl she used to

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Speaker 1: hang out with Jesse Ray.

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Speaker 6: Jesse and I met. I don't remember exactly where we met.

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Speaker 6: We had mutual friends, and anytime we'd see her at

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Speaker 6: the bar, she would hang out with us.

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Speaker 1: When Kelly was in her early twenties. She moved to

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Speaker 1: Truther Consequences, New Mexico.

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Speaker 6: We had a lot of fun back in the day.

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Speaker 6: We were always going out, playing pool, going to the lake.

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Speaker 6: It was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: The tiny town of Truther Consequences is famous both for

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Speaker 1: its natural hot springs and its unusual name, which came

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Speaker 1: courtesy of a radio game show.

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Speaker 6: I think I had more fun here than I have

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Speaker 6: anywhere else I've lived. But I think it's the people.

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Speaker 6: I had really good friends here.

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Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety six. Kelly was a newlywed. Really,

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Speaker 1: she had just been married for less than.

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Speaker 6: A week, and we started fighting that day. I don't

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Speaker 6: even know what we were fighting about, but I told

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Speaker 6: him that I was leaving.

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Speaker 1: So Kelly went out to blow off some steam from

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Speaker 1: that silly fight.

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Speaker 6: I was going to go hook up with some friends

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Speaker 6: and go play pool, and I did. There were several

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Speaker 6: of us that went out and we were bar hopping.

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Speaker 6: I wasn't drinking. I was driving.

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Speaker 1: They're just a handful of bars in the area, including

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Speaker 1: a small biker bar named Raymonds. When you step inside,

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Speaker 1: there are pool tables in a jukebox. It's dimly lip

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Speaker 1: as strings of light shapes like jalapenos along the walls.

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Speaker 1: That's where Kelly bumped into Jesse Ray, David Parker raised daughter.

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Speaker 6: We weren't like close friends. We were just acquaintances kind

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Speaker 6: of because we would just hang out when we see

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Speaker 6: each other.

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Speaker 1: After Raymonds, the group headed to another local bar called

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Speaker 1: Blue Water Saloon. That's where Kelly's night took a bad turn.

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Speaker 6: I ordered one beer and some friends of mine started fighting.

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Speaker 6: They were a couple, so I took them home and

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Speaker 6: came back and finished my beer.

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Speaker 1: When Kelly returned, the rest of her friends wanted to

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Speaker 1: go home, so she let them take her car.

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Speaker 6: Jesse and I were the last two and without her car,

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Speaker 6: Jesse said she was going to give me a ride home,

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Speaker 6: and that's when Jesse took me toward Dad. She's the

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Speaker 6: one that took me to him. She knew what was

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Speaker 6: going to happen.

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Speaker 1: David Parker. Ray wound up keeping Kelly in his toy

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Speaker 1: box for two and a half days.

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Speaker 6: When I was captive. I don't remember him saying too much.

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Speaker 6: I remember him telling me at one point that they

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Speaker 6: had been watching me for years.

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Speaker 1: So what did David Parker Ray do to Kelly in

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Speaker 1: the toy box.

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Speaker 6: I have no idea. I don't remember. I just remember

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Speaker 6: being in his house.

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Speaker 1: She believes now that she was drugged, which affected her memory,

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Speaker 1: and when she didn't turn up all weekend, Kelly's husband

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Speaker 1: got concerned.

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Speaker 6: And my husband at the time put a missing persons

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Speaker 6: report out on me.

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Speaker 1: A couple days later. Kelly remembers being driven in David

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Speaker 1: Parker race truck.

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Speaker 6: The only thing that sticks in my memory from that

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Speaker 6: ride is him stopping to get coffee.

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Speaker 1: Kelly said she felt out of it during the ride.

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Speaker 6: David dropped me off at my mother in law's house,

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Speaker 6: which is where my husband was, and he told her

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Speaker 6: that he found me wandering on the beach out at

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Speaker 6: the Lake Elephant Boot Lake because he lives out there.

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Speaker 1: Kelly's husband had questions, most importantly, where had she been

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Speaker 1: all weekend?

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Speaker 6: And I told him I didn't remember anything, and they

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Speaker 6: did not believe me.

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Speaker 1: Kelly's husband was furious. The two had had an argument,

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Speaker 1: and Kelly disappeared for the weekend, but returned with no

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Speaker 1: memory of what happened. Her husband and his family didn't

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Speaker 1: believe her. They all assumed she was with another.

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Speaker 6: Man felt horrible. But who's gonna believe me when you

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Speaker 6: say I don't know where I've been all weekend. I'm

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Speaker 6: not sure I would believe somebody if they told me that.

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Speaker 1: Her husband was so angry that he wouldn't even let

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Speaker 1: Kelly into the house.

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Speaker 6: Like the next day, we went to the courthouse and

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Speaker 6: signed an oment papers, so we were married a total

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Speaker 6: of thirteen days.

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Speaker 1: Kelly never reported what happened to the police, and she

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Speaker 1: tried to forget what little she remembered. Three years later,

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Speaker 1: a news story would change everything. The report mentioned a

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Speaker 1: woman with a tattoo on her ankle. Kelly's former sister

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Speaker 1: in law was watching the news in shock. Prosecutor Jim

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Speaker 1: Yance explains.

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Speaker 4: Her ex in laws were vacationing, I believe in southern California,

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Speaker 4: and when they checked in to the hotel, the person

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Speaker 4: at the desert, oh, you're from Truth to Consequences. That's

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Speaker 4: where the story's on the news. Fun. They didn't know

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Speaker 4: anything about it, but they did recall Kelly. They did

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Speaker 4: recall the tattoo. When they got back, they notified the FBI.

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Speaker 4: They indicated that it was in fact their former daughter

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Speaker 4: in law and From that, we were able to locate

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Speaker 4: Kelly Garrett and the tribal tattoo was matched to the

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Speaker 4: tattoo on her leg.

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Speaker 6: Beginning of March, I think somebody called and said I

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Speaker 6: wanted to talk to me.

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Speaker 1: Two investigators arrived with the tape they found of Kelly

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Speaker 1: in the toy box.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, they did show me the video.

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Speaker 1: After watching it, her memories of what happened still weren't clear.

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Speaker 6: I remember bits and pieces, and if I remember enough

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Speaker 6: of them, I can put them together.

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Speaker 1: Then Kelly shared some vivid nightmare she had been having.

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Speaker 1: These nightmarees started after her time in the toy box.

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Speaker 6: I would have a nightmare about somebody holding a knife

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Speaker 6: to my throat, or I would have a nightmare about

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Speaker 6: being tied to a table. Duct tape has always been

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Speaker 6: a trigger since then, but I didn't know why. It

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Speaker 6: took me years before I could even say the word

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Speaker 6: duct tape. I called it icky tape for a long time.

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Speaker 6: And if I'm paying attention, then somebody's using it. Most

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Speaker 6: of the time, I can stand there while they use it,

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Speaker 6: But if they do it and I'm not paying attention,

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Speaker 6: I scream and panic and run away and.

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Speaker 1: Cry investigators couldn't help but know the eerie similarities of

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Speaker 1: Kelly's nightmares to what David Parker Ray did to his

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Speaker 1: other victims.

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Speaker 6: He always had his keys on his belt loop, and

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Speaker 6: that's a trigger, the jingling of keys.

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Speaker 1: The more Kelly talked, the more her painful memories flooded back.

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Speaker 6: That's when it all clicked.

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Speaker 1: She realized that those nightmare she had been having were

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Speaker 1: actually suppressed memories, and then it started to come back

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Speaker 1: to her. She remembered her friend's father threatening her with

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Speaker 1: a knife and then being duct taped and handcuffed to

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Speaker 1: a fitness bench.

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Speaker 6: That felt good that I could actually put things together,

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Speaker 6: but it was also horrifying.

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Speaker 1: Police filed additional charges against David Parker Ray and arrested

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Speaker 1: his daughter, Jesse Ray. They charged her with kidnapping, criminal

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Speaker 1: sexual penetration, assault, and conspiracy. Jesse Ray was arrested thirty

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Speaker 1: four days after her dad was put behind bars. With

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Speaker 1: David Parker Ray, his girlfriend, Cindy Hendy, and now his

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Speaker 1: daughter Jesse Ray all in custody, could prosecutors get one

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Speaker 1: of them to flip. It's now late nineteen ninety nine

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Speaker 1: and David Parker Ray still isn't talking, so investigators leaned

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Speaker 1: on one of his two accomplices, girlfriend Cindy Hendy. Jim

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Speaker 1: Yance was the deputy district attorney.

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Speaker 4: Initially, she described herself as being one of his victims,

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Speaker 4: but she became involved in actually enjoying the torture part

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Speaker 4: of it, and became his accomplice.

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Speaker 1: If convicted, Cindy Hendy faced more than two hundred years

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Speaker 1: in prison. So prosecutors offered Cindy a deal. Plead guilty

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Speaker 1: and cooperate with their investigation and they'll reduce the charges

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00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: mean in a lighter sentence. So Cindy agreed to the

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Speaker 1: plea deal. It required her to testify against David Parker Wray.

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Speaker 1: This is where the story turns even darker and a warning.

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Speaker 1: In all the cases I've covered, this is one of

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Speaker 1: the darkest details I have come across. What she shared

258
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: shocked the investigators. Cindy Hendy reported that David Parker Ray

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Speaker 1: killed at least fourteen people. He reportedly dropped the bodies

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Speaker 1: an elephant Butte Lake and ravines in the area. She said,

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00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 1: to keep the bodies from rising to the surface, he

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00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,440
Speaker 1: would do something completely gruesome. Parker Way would cut out

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Speaker 1: the stomach of each victim and then fill the body

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Speaker 1: with rocks.

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Speaker 4: The state police turned over every rock between Alburquirkue, and

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Speaker 4: Elf and Butte Tiny to find other victims, but we

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00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 4: were never able to find those individuals.

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Speaker 1: Then, in late nineteen ninety nine, David's accomplice and girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: Cindy Hendy, had a change of heart. She stopped cooperating

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Speaker 1: in the investigation. Cindy told the court that she was

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Speaker 1: still in love with David, so she fired her attorney

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00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 1: and asked to withdraw her plea. Cindy's new lawyer argued

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Speaker 1: that Cindy had an eighth grade education and a mental

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Speaker 1: disability that made it difficult for her to understand the

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00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: consequences of the deal she made with prosecutors. But prosecutors

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00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 1: believed that David Parker Ray's daughter Jesse Ray, helped to

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00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: convince Cindy Hendy not to testify. The two had jail

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00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: cells near one another and would often communicate. I cannot

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00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: believe that is allowed. David allegedly wrote letters to Cindy

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00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: urging her not to testify against him. Still, the judge

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00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: ruled that Cindy Hendy could not change her plea. Even

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00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: with the ruling, Cindy refused to testify against David. It

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00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: was the first of many setbacks for prosecutors. David Parker

284
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 1: Ray faced three separate trials, one for each victim. His

285
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 1: lawyer argued successfully that if he was tried for his

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00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 1: crimes against three victims together, he wouldn't have a fair

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00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: shot at proving his innocence, So the three cases were

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00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 1: separated into three different trials. They would go one victim

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00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: at a time. Then there was this hurdle, and keep

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00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 1: in mind, this was a different time. Two of those

291
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 1: victims were sex workers, and prosecutors feared that that made

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00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 1: them lack credibility.

293
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 2: He knew the type of woman he wanted to pick up.

294
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,719
Speaker 1: TV reporter Alex Tomlin covered the story.

295
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 2: He wanted them to probably have a history of going

296
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 2: out and maybe drinking too much, of going home with

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00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 2: people that they didn't know on the first night. He

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00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 2: wanted to pick women who no one was going to

299
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,280
Speaker 2: cost too much of a fuss if they didn't come

300
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 2: home in three days.

301
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,160
Speaker 1: They had video of him torturing and raping, and investigators

302
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: believed he was a killer, but without any bodies or

303
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 1: other evidence, they couldn't charge him with any other crimes.

304
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,760
Speaker 2: They used to open the toy box for reporters to

305
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 2: come in, just to stir up people's memories.

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00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, all of this affected tourism. No

307
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 1: one wanted to go in or around the lake.

308
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 2: It's one of those situations where you get around it

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00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 2: and it's almost like you can physically feel evil. It's

310
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 2: a thickness, the sensation. It's the way your skin crawls,

311
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 2: the way the wind hits you. It's just so uncomfortable.

312
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 2: Somebody out there saw something, somebody knows something, and it's

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00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 2: just gonna be a matter of time until they say something.

314
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 1: Cadaver dogs also searched David Parker Rai's property, but the

315
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 1: only bones they found belonged to animals.

316
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 2: Keep was strategic. I mean, that's why you got away

317
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 2: with it for so long. That was his game.

318
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 1: Then another tragedy three became two when one of the

319
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: victims mysteriously died. Angela Montana was held in the toy

320
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: box a few weeks before Cynthia V. Hill, but just

321
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: before the trial, she reportedly died of a drug overdose.

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00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: She was only twenty eight years old. Suddenly, the first case,

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00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 1: which was to find David Parker Ray guilty for his

324
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 1: crimes against Kelly Garrett. One that seemed like a slam

325
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 1: dung for prosecutors was crumbling. They needed Kelly Garrett to

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00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 1: be a witness at her own trial. Here's Kelly.

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00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 6: I told him, No, I knew how much it was

328
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 6: going to bring up. I knew howpset it was going

329
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,360
Speaker 6: to make me, and I changed.

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00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 1: My mind ultimately and bravely. She agreed to testify.

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00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 6: People needed to hear, people needed to know that he

332
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 6: was bad.

333
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,879
Speaker 1: The trial, schedule to kick off in the spring of

334
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: two thousand, faced delay after delay. The defense wanted the

335
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: case tried outside of Elephant Butte in order to find

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00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: an impartial jury, so the judge moved the case some

337
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty miles north to the tiny town

338
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: of Tierra Maria. Then, in between four long weeks of

339
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: jury selection, David Parker Array was hospitalized twice with hard issues.

340
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 1: More delays came when David's lawyer had to deal with

341
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 1: a personal issue. When he finally returned to work, both

342
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: sides held several heated hearings about what evidence prosecutor Jim

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00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: Yuns could show to the jury. Some evidence was just

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00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 1: too graphic, and there was another problem. Kelly Garrett was

345
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: held in the toy box in nineteen ninety six, but

346
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: the evidence was seized in nineteen ninety nine when police

347
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 1: rescued Cynthia V.

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00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 6: Hill.

349
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: Now prosecutors had to prove that each piece of evidence

350
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 1: was also present three years earlier. This led to dozens

351
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: of pieces of evidence being excluded from the trial. The

352
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 1: most heated debate over evidence involved the audio tapes found

353
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: that described the crimes in the toy box.

354
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 2: He played a tape that, in chilling detail, told them

355
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: exactly what was going to happen to them.

356
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: The judge did not allow it to be played at

357
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 1: Kelly Garrett's trial because Kelly couldn't remember hearing it, but

358
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: the judge did allow the jury to see a videotape

359
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: of Kelly Garrett that was recorded in the toy box.

360
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 1: When the trial began in the summer of two thousand,

361
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: that videotape became the prosecution's key piece of evidence. Durs

362
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: heard hours of testimony from law enforcement and first responders

363
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 1: before prosecutors finally played that videotape. As the six minute

364
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: video flickered on an old TV monitor. Jurs leaned forward

365
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: in their seats to take a closer look. The recording

366
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: showed Kelly restrained on a table. It showed Parker Rey

367
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: assaulting her by groping her and placing duct tape over

368
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: her mouth and eyes. Without an audio, it would be

369
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: up to Kelly to describe what happened before, during, and

370
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: after this six minute long tape. But remember, Kelly couldn't

371
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 1: recall what happened. She believed she had been drugged for.

372
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 6: A long time. I don't think I was reliable because

373
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 6: I couldn't compose myself enough sometimes to get out of bed.

374
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: For two long hours, Kelly sat on the witness stand

375
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: and recounted what she could remember happened that weekend in

376
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: July nineteen ninety six. She said she had a beard

377
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: a local bar and then felt light headed. Jesse Ray

378
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: offered to drive her home, but instead she took her

379
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: to her father's place. Kelly remembered that David claimed to

380
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: be a part of a Satanic group that wanted to

381
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: use her as a sex toy. Then they tied her

382
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: to what looked like a weightlifting bench. She then explained

383
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: how over the next three days David Parker Ray abused her.

384
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: She remembered his voice and said that at some point

385
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: the duct tape over her eyes became loose and she

386
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: was able to see his face. Kelly explained that she

387
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: always thought what happened to her was a nightmare that

388
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: eventually would go away, but it never did. It destroyed

389
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: her life.

390
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 6: I used to be fun and outgoing, and I could

391
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 6: go places alone, and and now I stay home very

392
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 6: seldom ever go out. I can't even go to the

393
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 6: grocery store by myself.

394
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jim Yons then warned the jurors of the graphic

395
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: nature of what came next. They would see the inside

396
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: of the toy box. As jurors nervously shuffled in their seats,

397
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: Jim held up photos.

398
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 4: We had cheers that asked for breaks. We had chers

399
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 4: that were just shaking their heads. Now, we actually had

400
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 4: chors sometimes that would put their head down or sobbing.

401
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 4: It was incredibly difficult for them to hear it.

402
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: The quarter appointed public defender never called any witnesses to

403
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: the stand, but simply used his cross examination of the

404
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: prosecution's witnesses to cast down in the minds of the jurors.

405
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: He asked Kelly why she never told the police or

406
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: even her friends or family what happened to her in

407
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: the toy box. With her hands trembling, Kelly locked eyes

408
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: with the lawyer explained she thought that these memories were nightmares.

409
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 6: We couldn't prove that I was drugged because those drugs

410
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 6: were found three years later.

411
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: The defense attorney used that same strategy to pick away

412
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: at the contents of the toy box. The public defender

413
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: set out to make each of the prosecution's witnesses unreliable.

414
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: He asked the same question to each investigator who testified,

415
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: do you know if these items were in the toy

416
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: box back in nineteen ninety six. One by one, they

417
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: each answered, I don't know. As for the defendant, David Parker,

418
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: ray He Warwick became dugged. His uniform a striped cowboy

419
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: shirt with brown jeans and cowboy boots. He appeared thinner

420
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,719
Speaker 1: and then at the time of his arrest, and his

421
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: slicked back hair had more streaks of gray. His demeanor

422
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: changed from smiling and flirting with his attorney's assistant to

423
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: look looking tired and slumping over in his chair. He

424
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: continued to complain of chest pain, and by the time

425
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: both sides made their closing arguments, David Parker Ray was

426
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: joined at the defense table with a giant tank of

427
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: oxygen to help his breathing. As both sides stated their

428
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: case to the jury, Parker Ray's lawyer again shifted the

429
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: focus on the victims. He attacked Kelly Garrett's credibility and

430
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: called her memory selective. He told jurors, if you're telling

431
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: the truth, you don't have to remember. He argued that

432
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: the sex between David Parker Ray and Kelly Garrett was

433
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: consensual and that the video proved it. Prosecutor Jim Yons

434
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: got in the last word. He pointed out that Kelly

435
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: did not need to put herself through the pain of testifying,

436
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: to face the world, to tell them your most horrifying

437
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: story and to be called a liar, but Kelly chose

438
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: to do so. In spite of all of that. The

439
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: case went to the jury on the app afternoon of

440
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: July twelve, two thousand and now it was in their

441
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: hands to decide David Parker Ray's fate. Imagine this, Just

442
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: minutes after jurors began deliberations, David Parker Ray had to

443
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: be escorted out of the courtroom. The now six year

444
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: old felt a pain in his chest. His lawyer called

445
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: it heart irregularities, and he was sent to a local

446
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: clinic for treatment.

447
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,400
Speaker 4: My greatest fear was David being released.

448
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jim Yarns knew his case was strong, but he

449
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: was afraid of what the jury would come back with.

450
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: Yance was frustrated that the judge didn't allow some key evidence,

451
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: specifically the initiation tape that David Parker Ray played for

452
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: his victims. Although jurors didn't see all of the evidence,

453
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: the investigators and lawyers did.

454
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 4: We saw all of the imagers. Now, some of them

455
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 4: were hand drawings of David's. Some of were actual photographs.

456
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 4: But no, I'd never seen anything like them before, nor

457
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 4: do I hope to again.

458
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: While jury deliberations continued into their second day, the tiny

459
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: town of Tierra Maria was packed with journalists awaiting for

460
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: a verdict. Prosecutors worried that the longer the jury deliberated,

461
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: the greater chance of an acquittal.

462
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 4: On day one of this investigation, everybody worked together for

463
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 4: one purpose, and that was to stop the nightmare David

464
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 4: Parker Ray.

465
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: Then on Thursday, July fourteenth, two thousand, the judge called

466
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: everyone back into the courtroom. By that point, the jury

467
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: had spent days deliberating for all twelve counts. They couldn't

468
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: agree on a unanimous verdict.

469
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 4: That trial ended up in a misstoial.

470
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: The hung jury was a major victory for David Parker Ray,

471
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: who back in the courtroom, showed no emotion. The prosecutors

472
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: were stunned. They learned from reporters that two twenty somethingter

473
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: female durers who were the holdouts for securing a conviction.

474
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: The two said they didn't believe Kelly Garrett's testimony, and

475
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: one even believed the sex was consensual.

476
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 6: I was there willingly, That's what that was said in court.

477
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 6: They found over one hundred videos but only found three

478
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 6: of us alive. But I was there willingly because most

479
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 6: of the people that he took were either into drugs

480
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 6: or prostitutes, and I was neither.

481
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: It's true at the time, these women were not seen

482
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: as believable, and we know that this is still a

483
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: problem today. I know this from my own experience covering

484
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: the Long Island serial killer. It's valid to question if

485
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: that case where multiple women's bodies were found along the

486
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: shoreline would have been taken more seriously and solved years

487
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: earlier if the women hadn't been sex workers. Even with

488
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: her credibility being questioned, what was more painful for Kelly

489
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: is what she heard from a juror.

490
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 6: Some people like it rough. It was one of the

491
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 6: jurors that said that some people like it Rod. I'll

492
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 6: never forget her saying That's about the only thing I

493
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 6: remember about that trial.

494
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: A man with a homemade torture chamber, who had journals

495
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: and videos detailing what he did to dozens of victims,

496
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: somehow managed to escape being convicted.

497
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 7: I was scared when Kelly's came back a hungry I

498
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 7: was really scared.

499
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: Cynthia Viha was preparing for her own trial. She didn't

500
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: testify in the first case because she was the star

501
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: witness in Parker Ray's upcoming second trial.

502
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 7: I don't understand how a woman could not believe her.

503
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 7: There's a whole video of her being tortured, there's drawings,

504
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 7: there's rules. He had never trust the chain captive. What

505
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 7: does that say? A chained captive that tells you right

506
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 7: there there because they're not willing. So I don't know

507
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 7: how anybody could believe it he was innocent. That's when

508
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 7: I got really scared that they weren't going.

509
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: To believe me. For this trial, David Parker Ray would

510
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: have to find a new lawyer. His previous attorney, a

511
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: twelve year veteran of the Public Defender's Office, announced that

512
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: he was taking a new job in Antarctica. That's right,

513
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: he was moving to a new continent. But before leaving,

514
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: he stopped at a colleague's office with a message.

515
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 8: Hey, look, I'm leaving the Public Defender's Office and I've

516
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 8: got a case I want you to take. Will you

517
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 8: take it? I said, well, sure, what is it? And

518
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 8: he says it's that case? And I said that case

519
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 8: And he said, yes, that one.

520
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: That case now belonged to Lee McMillan.

521
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 8: They basically threw me to the wolves. David Parker Ray

522
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 8: was one of those cases that every attorney hopes he'll

523
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 8: get once in a lifetime and then finally gets one

524
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 8: and never wants another one.

525
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: But then things took another strange turn one weekend when

526
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: a giant black bear broke through a plexiglass window and

527
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: rummaged through the courthouse. The bear wound up, chewing on

528
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: some cans before leaving, along with a broken window in

529
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: charge of glass. The bear left behind a bloody trail

530
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: of Paul prints. One courthouse worker joked that the case

531
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: couldn't get any weirder, but it did. Before the retrial began,

532
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: the judge, who was just fifty five years old at

533
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: the time, had a massive heart attack and died. Just

534
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: the day before that. He had gone to the jailhouse

535
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: and warned the guards to leave David Parker Ray alone.

536
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: He had heard that he was being picked on. Replacing

537
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: him was Judge Kevin Swayze, who, at thirty eight years old,

538
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: was the youngest district judge in New Mexico.

539
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 8: This is his first major trial after he was appointed

540
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 8: to the bench.

541
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: A new judge and a complete redo of the trial

542
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: meant anything was possible.

543
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: He had just told the police that he was ready

544
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: to talk.

545
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: To them, but prosecutors kept running into the same rule blox.

546
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 5: It almost goes back to that hole. This is so outrageous.

547
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 5: It's hard for people to believe.

548
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: What lengths would investigators go to to get David Parker

549
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: Ray to reveal his secrets.

550
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: There was some talk that David Parker Why would plead

551
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: guilty to everything as long as the state would make

552
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: a deal.

553
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: But would they run out of time?

554
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 5: Probably the one thing that irritates the hell out of

555
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 5: me about this case.

556
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: In the final episode of The Toy Box Killer, prosecutors

557
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: get another chance to convict David Parker Ray, and this

558
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: time they'll get some help from an unlikely source. What

559
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: happened in the end was something that shocked David Parker

560
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: Ray's own lawyer.

561
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 8: I did not trust if he would not start his

562
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 8: own hard walk out, that's.

563
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 1: Next time on American Homicide. You can contact the American

564
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: Homicide team by emailing us at American Homicide Pod at

565
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com.

566
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: American Homicide is hosted and written by me Sloane Glass

567
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: and is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of

568
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show

569
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Todd Gans. The

570
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: series is also written and produced by Todd Gans, with

571
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: additional writing by Benfetter and Andrea Gunny. Our associate producer

572
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: is Kristin Melcurie. Our iHeart teap is Ali Perry. And

573
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, additional

574
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: editing support from Nika Ruka Tanner, Robbins, brit Robashow, Dave Seya,

575
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: and Patrick Walsh. American Homicide theme song was composed by

576
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: Oliver Bains of Noisier Music Library provided by my Music.

577
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: Follow American Homicide on Apple Podcasts and please rate and

578
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: review American Homicide. Your five star review goes a long

579
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: way towards helping others find this show. For more podcasts

580
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Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

581
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts,