1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 3: Business of Sports can be intimidating for hard for a 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 3: start to break into. 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 4: We really appreciate where our owners are actually there, you know, 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 4: with us through the journey. 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: Teams ours especially been very intentional to diversify at all 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: levels of the company. 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 5: I think we're in the golden years for the NFL 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 5: and college football. 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 4: Our demographic reach has continued to explode. 12 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: for sports fans. 14 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: Sports evaluations are rising. We'll see when they peak. 15 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 5: You don't have to be the best in your sport 16 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 5: to make a whole ton of money. 17 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 18 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We explore the 19 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: big money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael 20 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: barn and I'm Damian's ass Hour. Scarlett fou is on assignment, 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: and Vanessa Erdomo will join us a bit later. Coming 22 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: up on the show, we'll dive into the growth of 23 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: women's sports and how to close the gender wage gap 24 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: with David Berry. 25 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: He is a professor of economics at Southern Utah University. 26 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: And co author of the book Slaying the Trolls, a 27 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: book on why a lot of people are underestimating the 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: power and popularity of women's sports. 29 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 5: When you go back and you think about college sports, 30 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 5: college sport for women really can't begin till Title nine 31 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 5: passes in nineteen seventy two, so men literally get a 32 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 5: century head start. Why is college football so popular? It 33 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 5: started in the eighteen seventies, It was a role It's 34 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 5: been around for one hundred and fifty years plus. 35 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: We'll talk with Michael Schreiber. He is the founder and 36 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: CEO at Playfly, a company that places itself right in 37 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: the center of the relationship between teams and their fans. 38 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: All that is on the way on the Bloomberg Business 39 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: of Sports, but first we look at a growing problem 40 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: for college athletes. Bloomberg News investigative reporters Peter Robinson and 41 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: Noah the Higher recently published a new piece featured on 42 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Bic Take and on Bloomberg Business Week, a very 43 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: good read about the ugly truth college players are facing 44 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: with payment deals, and they're here now to talk about it. Peter, Noah, 45 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 46 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: Thanks for having us. 47 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: This article is fascinating, unbelievable, And I'm going to start 48 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: out with something that I did not know, and I'm 49 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: a Michigan nut. This happened a year ago pretty much 50 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: that the Spartans Michigan State University. We're threatening to walk 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: because there was a problem over pay. Can you tell 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: us what happened? 53 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really a subtext during the season, and 54 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: players within teams, you know, often don't talk about what's 55 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 3: happening behind closed doors. But as we reported in the 56 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: story behind closed Doors, the collective, the group of boosters 57 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 3: who were paying players had had been was running out 58 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: of money. It's essentially, and players hadn't been paid. And 59 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 3: so before the game, you know, essentially, on the on 60 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 3: the plane headed to the game against Iowa, players were 61 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 3: told that they would no longer be getting money that 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: they were promised for the season. So, as we reported 63 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 3: in the story, you know, one player said, take me 64 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: to the airport, I'm going back, and other players, you know, 65 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 3: started to seriously consider sitting out the game. 66 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: That is an unbelievable story. I can't believe it didn't 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: get more pressed and talk to us a little bit 68 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: about these collectives, these boosters. I mean, in this case, 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: the boosters were backed by some pretty deep pocketed investors. 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could shed some light on that 71 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: as well. 72 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, the people backing Spartan Dogs for Life from the 73 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: start were Matt Ashbia, who's famously the owner of the 74 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: Phoenix Suns, and Steve Saint Andre, who contributed more of 75 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: the money and was really more of the driver of 76 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: their organization. And Steve s and Andre is a technology 77 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 3: entrepreneur who've been involved with a company called for Direct. 78 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: And they're both Michigan State alumni and big boosters of 79 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: the university. 80 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: And so to be clear here, so you know, the 81 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: football team or football players, a number of them were 82 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: promised a certain amount of money at you know, they 83 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: got up to a I guess a bad start last season, 84 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: and within short order, you know, they received emails literally 85 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: before game time that you know they weren't going to 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: be getting paid, right, And so, I mean, what do 87 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: you do if you're managing a locker room, you're a coach, 88 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: I mean, forget about that, you're the athletic director, and 89 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: all of a sudden the boosters pull out and you 90 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: find out minutes before game time, I mean, is that 91 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: is that a one off or is this something that 92 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: you're hearing about recurring throughout all of college sports. 93 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: Well, I Noah can talk talk more about this, but 94 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: it's really ultimately it's a structural problem in the within 95 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 3: college football as it is today, because these are essentially 96 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty million dollars two million dollar dollar 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 3: businesses with with an unpaid labor force, and so structurally, 98 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: the coaches are paid, the administrators are paid, the assistant 99 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 3: coaches are paid, and they're all paid huge amounts of money, 100 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: you know, four hundred thousand for a running backs coach 101 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 3: to and a half million for a defensive coordinator. And the 102 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 3: players though, are paid in this very ad hoc way 103 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: through these collectives which are run by private business people 104 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 3: whose whose motives may differ from the athletic department the ground. 105 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think one of the things to really 106 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 4: note here about Michigan State and what was so exceptional 107 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 4: is we're hearing about this, you know, constantly in college 108 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 4: football now, you know, players alleging that they weren't given 109 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 4: what they were promised by by a collective. What was 110 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 4: so extreme about the Michigan State case is that it 111 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: affected so many players at the same time. But as 112 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 4: Peter said, I mean, these are large businesses essentially that 113 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 4: you know, top tier college football programs, the athletic departments 114 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 4: are one hundred and fifty million, two hundred and fifty 115 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 4: million dollar enterprises with unpaid labor forces, and a lot 116 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 4: of money has come into that space. But that money 117 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 4: is not coming from the university. So when you're an 118 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 4: athletic director or a coach of a team, you may 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: have to maintain morale, but at the end of the day, 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: you don't control the purse strings. 121 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: So help me figure out this one. Within your article, 122 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: you talk about the saga of Jaden Rashada, quarterback from 123 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay area, who you know, was very 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: highly recruited, actually committed, committed to the University of Miami, 125 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: the U and then all of a sudden, you know, 126 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: the University of Florida, the Gators, you know, they're boosters, 127 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: They wanted this kid, made him a huge offer that 128 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: he can possibly refuse. So I guess, if I'm hearing 129 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: you guys correctly, he he depledged. I guess if there 130 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: was such a thing from Miami decided to commit to 131 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: Florida and then what happened to this kid. 132 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 3: Well, he yes, that's that's exactly what happened as you 133 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: describe it. And the I mean, the amounts that he 134 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: said he was that were floated in him are enormous. 135 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: That it was, you know, nine and a half million 136 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: from the University of Miami, thirteen million from New Yorversity 137 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: of Florida. 138 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: Ten million dollars over four years from the University of 139 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: a Lorida forrook quarterback. 140 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 3: Wow, okay, yeah, and this is all but again, this 141 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 3: is all structured in a way that that's according to 142 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: the complaint, it was the money was to come from 143 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: multiple sources, not from the University of Florida itself, from 144 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: you know, a private business and another collective that was 145 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 3: going to be established. And ultimately, once according to the complaint, 146 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: once the pledge was made, the money just wasn't forthcoming. 147 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 3: And that is the crux of the issue at many schools. 148 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: There's a case recently involving a UNLV quarterback who said 149 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: that he's going to sit out the rest of the 150 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: season because he wasn't given the one hundred thousand dollars 151 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: to his agent that he was promised before he agreed 152 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 3: to play there. 153 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, but gentlemen, we're talking about fourteen million dollars. I mean, 154 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: that is an insane amount of money. I mean, I mean, 155 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: are you telling me that these universities and their donors, 156 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: their boosters can walk away without any ramifications whatsoever. We're 157 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: talking about you know, young nineteen year old you know, students, 158 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: I mean kids here. 159 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's all starting much earlier and 160 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: at the highest levels. You know, these are seventeen eighteen 161 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: year old kids who are hiring agents. They are you know, 162 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: needing to their families early, are needing to understand the 163 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: business at a much higher level, much much younger. 164 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 4: I would add here. You know, one of the one 165 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: of the core things we found in our reporting is 166 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 4: that oftentimes these contracts between the donor collectives and the 167 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 4: players are very lopsided. They have termination clauses that allow 168 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 4: the collective to basically walk away at any time at 169 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 4: their own discretion. Now, what you see in the Rashata 170 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 4: case is actual litigation over you know, what Rashada says 171 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 4: is money that was not paid. But I think one 172 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 4: of the important things for people to know is that 173 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 4: the leverage often in these contracts still lies with the 174 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 4: donors and the collectives. 175 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 2: Quick history lesson and it's in your article nineteen forty eight. 176 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: The NCAA they imposed a so called code that banned 177 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: the use of pay as an inducement. And you could 178 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: do it if you offered a scholarship. But that was 179 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: pretty much the only allowable compensation. Now, yes, you had 180 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: the boosters back in the day. Here you go, kid, 181 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: here's a little something for you. But that was pretty 182 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: much it. Now you flash forward, and as you put it, 183 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: the ground shifted in twenty twenty one when the US 184 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: Supreme Court cast aside the so called imagining ideals of amateurism. 185 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: How did you the mis ruling about the NCAA that 186 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: if you put that same model business model to any 187 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: other business, it wouldn't even fly. But times have changed, 188 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: and I wonder now is like we're in the infancy steps, 189 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: and I'll start with you, Peter. It is like, what 190 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: is it going to take to get the understanding here? 191 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, one thing that's happening is that the 192 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: antitrust suits against the NCAA are increasingly successful over the 193 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: last decade, and the Supreme Court ruling just put a 194 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: Capper on it. The NCAA has been losing badly in 195 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: the courts, and the amount of control it was exercising 196 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: over players was just not going to fly anymore. And 197 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: the House case in which the NCAA agreed to pay 198 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: two point eight billion to settle, which is an enormous 199 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: amount of money to former players an average of ninety 200 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: thousand to former Division one football men's basketball players. Plus 201 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: it's also agreed the NCAA has agreed that schools can share, 202 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: you know, up to twenty million a year in revenue. 203 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: And so this model will change in coming years. It's 204 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 3: just how quickly and how fair it is to the players, 205 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: because everyone seems to agree that ultimately there will be contracts, 206 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: there will be collective bargaining. It's just a matter of 207 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: how soon. 208 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: Noah Peter, you mentioned, you know, the husband of one 209 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: Terry Sabin in your article, Nick Saban, former coach of 210 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: the University of Alabama, won six national titles there. I mean, 211 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: he has killed it, but he's recently retired. And I 212 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: can recall back in March, you know, the you know 213 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 1: Nick Saban was you know, he was talking to a 214 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: bunch of senators on Capitol Hill right in front of cameras, 215 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: you know, talking about, you know, what is wrong with 216 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: college sports and what the you know NIOL means for 217 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: the future of college football, and you know, I mean, 218 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: isn't the proof in the pudding? 219 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 2: Right? 220 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: I mean he retired. I mean, Terry went on the 221 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: record and said the reason my husband Nick retired because 222 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: these kids don't play for the love of the sport anymore. 223 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: They're playing for the money. And I wonder, you know 224 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: why the US federal government is so slow in reacting 225 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: to this, I mean, and letting all of this transpire, 226 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: because you know how it is. I mean, once these 227 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: kids and their families are conditioned to deal with college 228 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, with college sports and with these universities in 229 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: this way, you know, it takes an awful long time 230 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: to change, you know, the playing field. I'm just you know, like, 231 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: what is the hold up? What is the waight? Why 232 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: aren't we seeing any progress there? I'm just curious to 233 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on that. 234 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 3: No, I do you give me thoughts on that? 235 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 4: I was going to turn to you up said right, 236 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: oh yeah, our own Bloomberg News investigative reporters. 237 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: Thank you guys for joining us one of the Bloomberg 238 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: Business of Sports. Up next, we talk about why a 239 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: lot of people are underestimating the power of women's sports 240 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: for my colleagues Damien SaaS Sour and Vanessa Verdomo. I'm 241 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business or Sports 242 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio around the world. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 243 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 2: of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. This is the Bloomberg Business 244 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: of Sports show. Will we explored the big money issues 245 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: in the world of sports on Michael Barr along with 246 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: my colleagues Damian Sassuer and Vanessa Perdomo. Scarlett Fuo is 247 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: on assignment time now for Slaying the Trolls. That's a 248 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: recent book diving into why a lot of people are 249 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: underestimating the power and popularity of women's sports. David Berry 250 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: is co author of the book. He's also a sports 251 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: economist and professor of economics at Southern Utah University. His 252 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: career recently has focused more and more on gender issues 253 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: in sports and closing the gender gap, and he's here 254 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: now to talk to us about that and more. David, 255 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 256 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 5: Ulad to be here. 257 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 2: I'm just going to ask the blunt question, the elephant 258 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: in the room. Why in the hell are we having 259 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: this conversation in the year twenty twenty four. I don't 260 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: get it. 261 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 5: What part don't you get the fact that there are 262 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 5: men who attack women in sports, both as athletes, in 263 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 5: the media, as fans. 264 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 6: All of the park. 265 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it, this is silly. I don't understand it. 266 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: You've got people like Caitlin Clark just just blowing it 267 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: up there on the court and still is like, we 268 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: still got the trolls out there. 269 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 5: They do not go away. So there are many men, 270 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 5: and the trolls are predominantly, almost entirely men who are 271 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 5: amazingly threatened by women in sports, and any participation by 272 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 5: women in sports makes them very insecure. So they question 273 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 5: whether or not women are sports fans they are, They 274 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 5: question women whenever they are in the sports media. Yeah, 275 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 5: they question women as athletes and so and it happens continuously. 276 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 5: If you are at all on social media, you interact 277 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 5: with any women in any of these roles, you'll see 278 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 5: you'll see people show up who say this. And there 279 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 5: also are you know, men in the media who echo 280 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 5: these same sentiments, So it's not just anonymous trolls online 281 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 5: to do this. 282 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 7: David, when you're looking at I mean, the title of 283 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 7: your book is Slaying the Trolls, Why trolls are very 284 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 7: very wrong about women in sports? When you what were 285 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 7: you looking to set out when you, you know, started 286 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 7: writing this book. What did you exactly want to prove wrong? 287 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 7: And what do you think the biggest misconceptions are about 288 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 7: women in sports? 289 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 5: Well, Neth Walker and I started writing this book back 290 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 5: in twenty eighteen, and so this came about. I was 291 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 5: I was interacting with women in sports and learning about 292 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 5: their experiences, and it was pretty clear that their experiences 293 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 5: were very, very different than my experiences were. So I 294 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 5: would have people I would say things related to my 295 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 5: research and sports economics, and I would have some people 296 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 5: argue with me, and that would happen occasionally, but usually 297 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 5: it wasn't persistent anonymous people, and it didn't happen every 298 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 5: single time. And then I would talk to women in sports, 299 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 5: especially women in sports journalists, and you would see this, 300 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 5: you would say, they'd make a comment, and immediately there 301 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 5: would be, you know, several troll showing up saying things 302 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 5: that that were derogatory, but also saying things that were 303 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 5: actually just not true. And so I spoke to f 304 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 5: Walker about this because she's done a lot of research 305 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 5: in this space as well, and I said, you know, 306 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 5: we should write a book. We should go through and say, 307 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 5: let's let's go through the things that the trolls are saying, 308 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 5: and let's the evidence that that's actually not true. So 309 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 5: some misconception. One misconception is is that women are not 310 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 5: sports fans. There's been anonymous polls that have been done 311 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 5: that show that forty five percent of NFL fans are women. 312 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 5: That that millions of women will say to pollsters that 313 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 5: they're sports fans. Women are not as willing to say 314 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 5: that to men in front of them. And there's a 315 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 5: reason for that, and we talk about this in the book. 316 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 5: When women confess to men that they are sports fans, 317 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 5: it is not uncommon and I've had many women over 318 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 5: time tell me this exact same story. It is not 319 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 5: uncommon for men to give the women a quiz to 320 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 5: see are you actually a sports fan? And the quiz 321 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 5: is something like, you know, can you name the starting 322 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 5: guard on the Super Bowl team from nineteen eighty two? 323 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 5: I mean stuff like that it's like, this is ridiculous, 324 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 5: Why would you? Why would anyone know that or care? 325 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 5: But they are suspicious of the entire notion that women 326 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: would like sports because there's a stereotype that sports are 327 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 5: just for women, just for men. But if you go 328 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 5: back to the very beginning, women have been playing sports 329 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 5: and participating in sports. Have actively banned women from playing 330 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 5: sports that has happened historically. That leads to another myth. 331 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 5: There's this idea that women's sports don't earn as much 332 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 5: revenue or don't have the same attendance as men's sports 333 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 5: because they're just not as good. What we go through 334 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 5: in the book is say, now, the story is pretty 335 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 5: plain on this one. There is a long history of 336 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 5: discrimination against women that have produced the results that we 337 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 5: see in terms of revenue and attendance. As I said, 338 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 5: actively banned from playing sports historically, when they started playing sports, 339 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 5: they were tremendously underfunded. So when you go back and 340 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 5: you think about college sports, college sports for women really 341 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 5: can't begin till Title nine passes in nineteen seventy two, 342 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 5: so men literally get a century head start. Why is 343 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 5: college football so popular? It started in the eighteen seventies, 344 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 5: it was around, it's been around for one hundred and 345 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 5: fifty years. You're going to build up a really substantial 346 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 5: fan base when you have one hundred and fifty year history. 347 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 5: Women's sports can't go back that far because Tittle nine 348 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 5: only came about in nineteen seventy two. Then when he 349 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 5: turned to the professional ranks, women don't get the same 350 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 5: investment that men get on in the private sector. That's 351 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 5: still true today. They definitely don't get the public sector investment. 352 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 5: So there's just this long history of discrimination that makes 353 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 5: women's sports have a smaller fan base, and it's nothing 354 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 5: to do with the quality of the games. 355 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Barry, you have served as president of the North 356 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: American Association for Sports Economics. You currently sit on the 357 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: editorial board of the Journal for Sports Economics and International 358 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,959 Speaker 1: Journal of Sport Finance. You are the defining voice on 359 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: economics and sports, and so I'm hoping you could put 360 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: some numbers around this for me. I know one such 361 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: number is that the WNBA currently he generates more revenue 362 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: than the NBA did fifty years ago, yet the gender 363 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: wage gap has emerged. You know that much more in 364 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: the sense at WNBA players today earned significantly less than 365 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:11,959 Speaker 1: their male counterparts. I mean, I wonder if you can 366 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: give us some other statistical data to prove your point here. 367 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 5: Well, I want to emphasize that point. That's a really 368 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 5: that's a really good point. The NBA back in the 369 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 5: early seventies made about thirty million dollars in revenue. If 370 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 5: you adjust for inflation, that's about two hundred million dollars 371 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 5: the WNBA today makes. According to Bloomberg, last year made 372 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 5: two hundred million dollars. They made much more this year, 373 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 5: but the WNBA player, the top WM player to day, 374 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 5: only makes two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. In the 375 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 5: early seventies. Kareem at Bill Jabbar was making four hundred 376 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 5: thousand dollars in nineteen seventy three, so Justiner and Flace, 377 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 5: she was being paid two million dollars. So there's just 378 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 5: this massive gender wage gap between men and women's sports. 379 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 5: You can also this is another little stat that's important. 380 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 5: The men's college basketball tournament gets a billion dollars a 381 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 5: year to broadcast in broadcasting rights. The NCAA was getting 382 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 5: only a million dollars a year for the women's basketball tournament. 383 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 5: They renegotiated it just a few months ago before the tournament, 384 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 5: and they were very proud of themselves. They said, we 385 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 5: have gotten the offer for the women's college basketball all 386 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 5: the way up to sixty million dollars a year. Again, 387 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 5: men are at a billion. Then the tournament happens and 388 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 5: the women get much higher ratings than the men. You're like, 389 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 5: you just negotiated this contract, and you negotiated a contract 390 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 5: that is that is less than ten percent of what 391 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 5: the men are getting, and the women are now getting 392 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 5: higher ratings. So this is the kind of thing that 393 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 5: happens to women a lot. Is that when it comes 394 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 5: to and when it comes to male leaders negotiating for women, 395 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 5: they undersell them repeatedly. They don't ask for very much 396 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 5: because they don't think it's worth very much because they're 397 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 5: not actually fans of it. 398 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 2: So I've seen, you know, what women can do. And 399 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: I remember at nine years old watching Billy Jean King 400 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: against Bobby Riggs. And this is some history, folks. To 401 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: tease you don't know what I'm talking about. Billy Jean King, 402 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 2: obviously the great tennis pro was up against Bobby Riggs 403 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: and this was one of those battle of the sexes. 404 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: And way back when you know, you had the big 405 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 2: women's lib argument. And I'll never forget doctor my mother 406 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: watching this saying please just beat the living snot out 407 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: of this guy, because that was a big turning point 408 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: to me about women coming into sports and women holding 409 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: their own. 410 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, we talk about that in the book and it 411 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 5: is a great moment. We also argue in the book 412 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 5: it wasn't necessary. And the reason why we argue it's 413 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 5: not necessary is because when Canola Alvarez wins a title 414 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 5: as a middleweight boxer, nobody stops for a second and says, sure, 415 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 5: I mean, you beat up a guy who's one hundred 416 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 5: and fifty pounds. I got this old heavyweight guy. He 417 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 5: weighs two hundred and sixty pounds. He's like Bobby Riggs. 418 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 5: The dude's fifty years old, but he outweighs You buy 419 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 5: one hundred pounds. When you beat that guy, I'll take 420 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 5: you seriously. We don't ask men to do that. We 421 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 5: do not ask middleweight boxers and lightweight boxers. We don't 422 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 5: ask him to fight heavyweights because one thing, it's it's 423 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 5: not even they don't even permit it because it's dangerous. 424 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 5: But we understand that when it comes to men. We 425 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 5: evaluate men relative to their competition, and if the men 426 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 5: are really really good relative their competition, then we will 427 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 5: say something like Floyd Mayweather is the greatest box in 428 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 5: the world. He can't. Actually, he never could have been 429 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 5: the best box in the world. He only wigh eight 430 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 5: one hundred and forty five pounds. How could it be 431 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 5: the best? But we say, well, relative to his competition, 432 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 5: he was really really good. And men do this all 433 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 5: the time, and then when women play sports, suddenly the 434 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 5: trolls show up and say, I wonder if that if 435 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 5: that WNBA team could beat a high school boys team. Okay, 436 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 5: they can, but that's irrelevant. That doesn't make any difference. 437 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 5: It only matters how well they do against the competition 438 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 5: they face, and that's how we should evaluate him. So 439 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 5: Billy Jean King is way better than Bobby Riggs because 440 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 5: she won a lot more titles than Bobby Riggs ever won. 441 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 5: Whether she won that match or not, she was still 442 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 5: way better. And I think this is a problem is 443 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 5: that we have a different set of criteria for women 444 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 5: than we have for men. Because if men follow their 445 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 5: same logic that it's absolute best that matters, then nobody 446 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 5: should watch a college football game. Ever, you should put 447 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 5: a college football game on in Every single guy should 448 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 5: look at that and go, why am I watching this? 449 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 5: These guys are not even as good as the worst 450 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 5: NFL team. This is ridiculous, But they don't do that right. 451 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 5: You watch a college football game and there are men 452 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 5: in the stands who are hanging on every single play 453 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 5: as this is the greatest thing that ever happened, and 454 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 5: they're not thinking for a moment, I don't think this 455 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 5: team could beat an NFL team, So they're shifting the 456 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 5: criteria when women are suddenly on the field. 457 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 2: The professor of economics at Southern Utah University, David Berry, 458 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 2: co author of the book Slay the Trolls, thank you 459 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 2: again for talking with us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 460 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me up. 461 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 2: Next, we talk more about the Money behind sports with 462 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: Playfly CEO Michael Schreiber. For my colleagues Damien Sassauer and 463 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: Vanessa Bernomo, I'm Michael Barr. You're listening to the Bloomberg 464 00:25:51,720 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio. Around the world, You're listening 465 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for 466 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 2: joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where 467 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 2: we explored the big money issues in the world of sports. 468 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, along with my colleagues Damian Sasur and 469 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 2: Vanessa Bernomo Scarlett foo is on assignment. Playfly is a 470 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: sports media, marketing and tech business that is positioning itself 471 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: in the center of the relationship between sports and their fans. 472 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: Here to talk to us about the business, the state 473 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: of private equity in sports, and more is play Fly 474 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 2: Founder CEO Michael Schreiber. Michael, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business 475 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: of Sports. 476 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 6: Thank you, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. 477 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about Playfly is a business that you 478 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 2: have created. Tell us about it. Yeah. Yeah. 479 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 6: We actually just had our four year anniversary in the 480 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 6: past seven days, so hit four years old. 481 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: Congratulations, thank you, thank you. 482 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 6: So it's exciting and we're a newish brand in the 483 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 6: world of sports, but we're not pretty big. We've got 484 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 6: about a thousand people. We work for most of the 485 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 6: pro teams in the US and some respect and a 486 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 6: big swath of the college athletic departments. And what we 487 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 6: do is we're the gateway that sits between the brands 488 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 6: and the teams. So our core business is driving sports 489 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 6: marketing activity between the teams and the brands. Whether we 490 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 6: do it through media, whether we do it through in 491 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 6: stadium or through digital and tech platforms, it doesn't matter. 492 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 6: We do that connection. We build that relationship. So whether 493 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 6: it's sales on the side of the selling for the team, 494 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 6: or whether it's consulting for the brand to make sure 495 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 6: they get into the right categories to connect to fans, 496 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 6: we sit in the middle and we use tech, We 497 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 6: use content, we use data to be able to connect 498 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 6: both the brands to the teams a little differently than 499 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 6: the rest of the competitors. So the cool thing about 500 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 6: Playfly is we get to sit in the center of 501 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 6: the ecosystem. You don't see our brand on TV when 502 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 6: you're watching the game, but the ads that are there, 503 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 6: we're sold. 504 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: Out your content right exactly. You control that content, and. 505 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 6: Not only that, we produce a lot of it. So 506 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 6: we actually have a whole production company that produces a 507 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 6: lot of the commercials you'll see on TV whether you're 508 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 6: watching the Knicks or the Lakers or the Bulls or 509 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 6: any baseball team, hockey team, et cetera. But so the 510 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 6: exciting part for us is even though no one knows 511 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 6: our name when you think about it from a consumer perspective, 512 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 6: if you think about it from a B to B perspective, 513 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 6: most people know our name now after four years. 514 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: So then you have to answer this with me. If 515 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: you're in the Nexus, you're touching a lot of different 516 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: players in the world of sports, right You're touching the teams, 517 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: you're touching networks, you're touching everything. So who are your clients, like, 518 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: who do you spend the majority of your time servicing? 519 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 6: Sure, So what we end up doing is most of 520 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 6: our service is to the sports ecosystem because the currency 521 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 6: is fandom, and when you think about what drives the business, 522 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 6: it's fandom. But fandom is increasing, your currency is increasing, 523 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 6: you can sell more at a higher rate traditional currency 524 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 6: type model that investors speak would under a fast service. Yeah, exactly, 525 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 6: Fandom as a service is our mantra. So ultimately what 526 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 6: that means is the people who own the fan are 527 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 6: the teams. So the teams, the leagues, the conferences, the 528 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 6: athletic departments, and they're harvesting and harnessing those fans in 529 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 6: different ways. So that's what we spend the most of 530 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 6: our time with because if we do a good job there, 531 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 6: the brands will come, and then ultimately we match the 532 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 6: right brands with the right fans to get them activated 533 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 6: and their products bought. But first to your questions, always 534 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 6: starts with the teams and their fandom. 535 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: And I see you have a huge footprint, right, major 536 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: League Baseball, the NBA, WNBA, the NCAA, right, So you know, 537 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: I didn't see the NFL there. But I would love 538 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: to hear your opinion on the role private equities playing 539 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: in the NFL, Like what does that mean to the 540 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: valuation of these franchises? Number one? But more importantly, what 541 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: is the value proposition from the perspective of a private 542 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: equity investor. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. 543 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a really interesting time. We do work with 544 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 6: the NFL directly and a number of teams as well. 545 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 6: It's a category that has changed, first the the other 546 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 6: Big four, right, it went through them, and now we're 547 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 6: getting to the final frontier with the NFL. But what 548 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 6: it's done is is actually created a mindset from a 549 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 6: team owner and even a league perspective to think about 550 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 6: their teams as media companies, as businesses, which is totally different. 551 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 6: They're ultimately going after more cash flow, more ways to 552 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 6: make money, more ways to slice the onion, and ultimately 553 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 6: they support and partners and consultants, and that's what we bring. 554 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 6: We bring those expertise, whether it's coming in with sales expertise, data, 555 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 6: whether it's coming in with technology. We're thinking about new 556 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 6: commercial strategies to optimize, whether it's putting a new sign 557 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 6: in the stadium, whether it's creating a new real estate 558 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 6: experience outside of your venue. All those elements are optimizations 559 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 6: of your existing business. There's always growth and when you 560 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 6: look at the pendulum of that, the NFL tends to 561 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 6: be at the forward end of the growth spectrum because 562 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 6: of their size and their fandom. But when you look 563 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 6: at someone like the NHL, they tend to be at 564 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 6: the forward side of the innovation spectrum. And that's really 565 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 6: interesting and to speak and from an investor standpoint. Sticking 566 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 6: with the NHL for a second, the NHL actually, and 567 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 6: these are our we come out with fandom based reports 568 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 6: using all of our proprietary data called the play Flag 569 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 6: Fan Score. We showed the NHL actually has the highest 570 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 6: level of CEOs and c level fans, which is really 571 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 6: interesting when you're thinking about advertising and marketing and especially 572 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 6: investors as to your question, but ultimately, all that comes 573 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 6: back down to, Okay, how do you create more cash flow? 574 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 6: Because that's what the pe investors are going to look for. 575 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 6: They're going to look for cash flow, they're going to 576 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 6: look for growth. If you're not providing that, you're not 577 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 6: going to provide the return because the evaluations are high 578 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 6: enough at the moment that you've got to actually show 579 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 6: financial success, not just excitement and scarcity. 580 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: You just brought up a good point, which sport. I 581 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 2: guess one hand has got to watch the other. You 582 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: need the NHL. The NHL needs you now as you progress, 583 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: you know, because the NFL, you know, they're just noxiously 584 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: like can. But it does come back to the question 585 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: is like we're in an era now where one hand 586 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: washes the other. 587 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 6: That's right, that's right. So ultimately, all boats are rising. 588 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 6: And if you think about it from a perspective, and 589 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 6: not only a perspective of the leagues and the teams, 590 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 6: but you're seeing multi team ownership across the leagues and 591 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 6: that's only going to continue to expand. So that combination 592 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 6: is not only just because those owners want to be 593 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 6: bigger owners. That's not the reason. It's because it provides 594 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 6: business opportunities, economies of scale, opportunities to use services like 595 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 6: the playfly Sports services across all of your teams, not 596 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 6: just one of your teams. It allows your head of 597 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 6: HR to be used across all of your teams. It's 598 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 6: business operations. That's the biggest change that we're seeing, not 599 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 6: only when you look at all the new money coming 600 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 6: into franchise ownership, but now the PE money coming into 601 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 6: franchise ownership. NFL being that last frontier, you're going to 602 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 6: see more and more business optimism and that's going to 603 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 6: be an interesting wave. I think that's going to continue 604 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 6: for the next ten plus fifteen years, and that's going 605 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 6: to be investible. Whoever's working on those elements for business 606 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 6: optimization is going to be a really interesting investable category. 607 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 6: In addition to the teams themselves. 608 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: Mike, I'd like to tap into your experience, you know 609 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: at Hulu. You know, you're a founder there, all the 610 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: stuff you did with you know, regional sports networks, a 611 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: model that is you know, arguably broken right now. What 612 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: does the future of a content consumption look like. 613 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 6: That's a great one. I love this one because we 614 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 6: tend to talk to in most of the conversations about 615 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 6: some of the struggles with debt or some of the 616 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 6: struggles with bankruptcy that we're hearing in this space in 617 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 6: the regional sports network space. But the actual most interesting 618 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 6: thing I think is, if you think about it from 619 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 6: the future perspective, what's actually the consumer experiencing now? What 620 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 6: does it look like? And it breaks down into seven 621 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 6: different local media categories, because if you think about it, 622 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 6: local media is really the driving force of most impressions 623 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 6: in the ecosystem. Most people are watching their local tea. 624 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 6: That's the experience in the US. That's experience really in 625 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 6: sports globally is local fans. Local fandom drives it. So 626 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 6: when you think about what's happening now, when you break 627 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 6: down the RSN ecosystem, like you mentioned, there's still plenty 628 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 6: of very successful rsns and really amazing businesses like Nessen 629 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 6: in Boston and others. But now you have seven different models. 630 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 6: So let's move the existing RSN. That's leaves six. The 631 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 6: next is team owned networks. The teams are buying their 632 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 6: networks back. They want to have control they want to 633 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 6: be in the operating seat. Great example Monumental Sports in DC. 634 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 6: Third strategy is direct consumer. The newest example that has 635 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 6: just came out as the Dallas Stars just decided no TV, 636 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 6: just direct consumer only major relevant you know, revolution in 637 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 6: the in the in what we're looking at from local 638 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 6: media at number three, number four which is actually the 639 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 6: fastest growing and the biggest is broadcast stations. So taking 640 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 6: it out of the cable model and going back to 641 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 6: the rabbit ears right, going back to the or just 642 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 6: reach from a TV perspective and putting it back on 643 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 6: the station like it's nineteen ninety five. 644 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: You know, I just I almost want to jump in here. 645 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: You know, we did a piece just the other day. 646 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: We were talking about Nike and Jim Donno, and we 647 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: were talking about some of the moves he made his 648 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: next being you know, obviously cost cutting. The type of 649 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: guy and one of the things that worked early on 650 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: was you know, going in house, you know, like the 651 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: Utah Jazz for example, you know, controlling everything that is 652 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: to do about how you reach your consumer. But when 653 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: you do that, if you run into some trouble later 654 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: on down the road, you don't have other avenues. You 655 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: have no other distribution mechanism to talk to us about that. 656 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: Is that happening in your neck of the woods? Is 657 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: that happening in the world of sports? 658 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, so definitely. So what you're seeing in all this fragmentation, right, 659 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 6: if you went through the rest of them, you'd see 660 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 6: differing models for the fan, for the businesses. What ends 661 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 6: up happening, and I call this the grand rebundling. What 662 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 6: you're gonna see is it breaks down. It breaks down 663 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 6: right into all these fragments, and then everybody looks at 664 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 6: each other and says, it wasn't the bigger package better 665 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 6: for everybody? 666 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 2: Right? Right? 667 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 6: Wait, it was better for the consumer. 668 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: They get over there, and then let's go back there 669 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: and you're like an. 670 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 6: And you ask some key learnings from the Hulu experience 671 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 6: and the founding of that business. Right, the grand rebundling, Right, 672 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 6: you're seeing it. Now you're seeing TV. Hulu has a 673 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 6: TV service that looks like cable. Right, it's the grand rebunding. 674 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 6: Everything's coming back because that's the most efficient way to 675 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 6: drive the most value in sports media, period. So the 676 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 6: breakdown is always going to happen, and then the rebundle 677 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 6: is always going to happen. It's just how long in 678 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 6: between those two things. 679 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 2: The secrets out of THEMBA by the way, that eventually, 680 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 2: I know, you guys are going to have to let 681 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 2: me put it this way, there's a lot of money 682 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 2: to be made in the WUNBA. 683 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And fandom again, as I said, 684 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 6: the currency fandom is increasing. The largest growth categories of 685 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 6: fandom is in women's sports right now. Now they're still small, 686 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 6: but that the highest growth percentages. So you're one hundred 687 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 6: percent right that if you follow the currency of fandom. 688 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 6: As I mentioned, play Flag sports uses fandom as a service. 689 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 6: The currency of fandom, women's sports is a place to 690 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 6: invest at the moment. 691 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting, So you know, I'll take it to the 692 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: next level. You know, the wild wild West where you 693 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: know there's tons of fans but they can't figure anything out. 694 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: Is the world of college sports. You do a lot 695 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: with the NCAA and il is real and what's going 696 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: on across the whole of commune. You've got you know 697 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: Nick Saban, you know he left his role as coach 698 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: of the of the Alabama Crimson Tide because he's like 699 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 1: everybody just wants money now, it's all about the money. 700 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: It's not about any fan, that's any loyalty to your 701 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: fan base. Talked to us a little bit about the 702 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: challenges that lie ahead for the NCAA and college sports. 703 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's the greatest turnover of atletic directors in the 704 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 6: history of college sports. It's gotten so much more complicated 705 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 6: than obviously an impetus for our business to be a 706 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 6: service provider at play fly Sports. But you're right, it's 707 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 6: it's a money game now. And the interesting thing is, 708 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 6: we talked about the dominance of the NFL earlier. The 709 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 6: largest attended sports category in the US is college football. 710 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 6: It is not there, and it's local, it is right, 711 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 6: it is not the NFL. So the NFL dominates TV 712 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 6: still college second by the way, ahead of MLB. 713 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: Right, NBA. 714 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 6: But it's the largest attended event category in the country. 715 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 6: So when you think about that, it is not fully 716 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 6: harvested for its value. It has not created a national 717 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 6: model that is yet as big as the NFL has, 718 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 6: and a lot of jockeying between conferences, a lot of 719 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 6: elements are still too evolve. We're probably i would say, 720 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 6: forty percent done the evolution of college sports and Wow, 721 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 6: look at the last five years. 722 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: Our thanks to Michael Schreiber for joining us. He is 723 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 2: the founder and CEO A Playfly, and thank you most 724 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: of all for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 725 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 2: We hear each and every week at the same time 726 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 2: for my colleagues Damien Sasaur and Branessa Brnomo. I'm Michael Barr. 727 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: Tune in next week for the latest on the stories 728 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 2: moving big old money in the world of sports. You're 729 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 2: listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around 730 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: the world.