WEBVTT - Kickstarting Kickstarter into High Gear with Professional Filmmakers 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:12.320 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.520 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.959 Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today. My 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:25.200 guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Shaw is the newly hired 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:30.200 senior Outreach Lead for Film at Kickstarter. She's also an 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:36.240 independent producer and an entrepreneur who leads BWA Studios. Shaw's 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.440 hire is a sign that Kickstarter wants to elevate the 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.400 activity that is generated on the platform by professional filmmakers. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.640 Kickstarter is not only a place to generate money for projects, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.199 it can also be an engine of engaging with fans 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:56.200 and keeping them connected to projects and franchises. Shaw is 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.880 in the midst of a festival tour to talk to 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:03.280 industry insiders about how Kickstarter can bring them production funding 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.120 and more. But don't call it a donation. Shaw explains 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.840 why in the conversation that is coming right up after 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:24.839 this break and we're back with my conversation with Taylor 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:29.960 Ka Shaw, Senior Outreach Lead for Film for Kickstarter. Taylor 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.920 Ka Shaw, newly appointed head of Film for Kickstarter. Thank 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.880 you so much for joining me on this slightly rainy 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:37.720 day in New York. 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:42.240 Thank you for having me and very very much so 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:43.560 looking forward to our conversation. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.319 Tell me about what's your mandate coming in and what 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.600 was it about this job that attracted you to coming 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:51.240 to Kickstarter. 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:58.160 The mandate coming in is to bring awareness two filmmakers 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.400 who are established, who have that built in audience, to 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:07.080 bring awareness that Kickstarter has a long standing legacy of 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:12.960 supporting prolific talent and really helping them fund and launch 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.680 their careers, like the likes of Anisa Ray or Phoebe Wallerbridge. 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.760 And so it really brought me here is the alignment 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:26.760 between my passion for building strong infrastructure for artists to 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.280 thrive and really seeing the need in this moment for 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:36.160 all artists, all filmmakers, whether you're emerging or established, the 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.280 need to be creatively independent. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.800 You go right to the heart of it is that 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:45.000 there is a sense that Kickstarter is for the person 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.560 that has been writing a script in their basement and 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.919 making super eight films and now has a great idea 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.280 and really wants to get out there, not for an 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:59.600 established showrunner an established screenwriter. But you're just telling me 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.400 that that is wrong. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.320 Yes, the most recent example is with The Apprentice you know, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.800 which now has two Oscar nominations, and they had a 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.600 lot of success at con they and Tell You Ride, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.480 and they still had a lot of difficulty with getting 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:24.360 distribution for the film, and so they turned to Kickstarter 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:29.400 to really prove that the audience, the community, folks want 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.040 to see this film and it means something to folks. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.520 And they did prove that, raising one hundred thousand and 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.160 just twelve hours and then overall four hundred thousand for 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.240 the marketing of the film. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.800 Let me let's take let's use that as an example, 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.120 because obviously that was a very controversial film some both 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:53.160 financial considerations and unavoidably political conversations. Variety covered a lot 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.840 about The Apprentice, so we're very definitely, very well aware. 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:01.080 So when the first of all, how do you know, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.119 and this might have predated your joining Kickstarter, but did 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.880 somebody at Kickstarter reach out to people involved with the 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:09.840 film and say, hey, we might be able to help 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.800 or did they was that organic? Did they immediately go 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.000 to Kickstarter when they realized they were going to need 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.039 some help in bringing in some money pretty quickly. 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.719 So they came to Kickstarter, which I think is really 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.680 special because that only happens if you are aware of 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.479 the power of the platform and what is possible when 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:34.760 you allow for your community to participate and uplift your work. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:40.200 So they took advantage of an opportunity to utilize our platform, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.160 and that's one that every if you just look a 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.480 little bit more into our history, and I hope to 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.800 share that more here with you today. But if you 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.080 look into it, you can make a campaign and really 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.440 reach out to those who care about your work, and 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.400 it can sing, and so they take it upon themselves 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.000 to take their power back and start a grassroots movement. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.760 Let me ask you the question that I've always had 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:09.400 with around crowdsourcing and these types of platforms. If the 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.279 people that are contributing to these funds, if the people 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.520 are doing it in fact to get a return on investment, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.960 how do you track that, especially over the life cycle 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.120 of something like a film. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:26.440 What is fabulous about Kickstarter is that our backers, the 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.640 backer community, they're not looking for a return on investment. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.200 They are really looking to be a part of films, 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.560 creative projects that mean something to them. A great example 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.760 was with hair Love. You know that Oscar winning short 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.760 that went on to be a mac series for hair Love. 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:52.359 When that wind happened on you know, social media, everyone 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.240 who backed the Kickstarter campaign was like, I was a 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.160 part of this film, like you know, we want an oscar. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:04.680 And so that is what the backer community at Kickstarter 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:09.720 is looking for. There is actually no equity exchange. What 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:15.200 they receive is rewards. Those rewards are ways for them 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:19.400 to be calm or receive something that allows for them 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.280 to be more deeply engaged in in the process, in 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.279 life cycle of the other projects. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.760 It is. It is interesting and it's an it's an 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.840 interesting evolution in fandom that this kind of access and 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.680 this kind of opportunity to be part of something. Thinking 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:43.640 like a lawyer, like, are there are there any unexpected 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.200 downsides that the company has had to deal with? Are 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.560 there people that come back and then claim some kind 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:52.960 of authorship because they you know, I guess I'm asking 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.040 the Devil's advocate question in terms of in terms of 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.080 any kind of like rights or authorship or just claims 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.160 after the fact. 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:09.320 You know, from the very beginning to backers and two artists, 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.160 the real draw for artists is knowing that their IP 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:17.160 is their IP and we allow for full creative control 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.520 when that is not the norm. Creative ownership is not 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.800 the you know norm in the traditional funding, the traditional 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.000 studio model, definitely not. Yes, So our backers know that 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:32.480 from the beginning of supporting a project, and that's very 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.560 clearly laid out for everyone. The true I you know, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.800 with the filmmakers I speak to, I really when they 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:44.760 express this sentiment that's concerned about, you know, how exactly 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.960 does this work. I've only you know, hit the pavement 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.840 the streets of LA trying to make it in the 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.440 traditional way. What I say is everyone is not an artist. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.640 Everyone is not a filmmaker. So everyone doesn't have that 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:04.880 unique ability to tell a story that resonates and that 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.480 really helps us see each other as human beings. Everyone 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:13.280 doesn't have that skill, and so you are offering to 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.880 people the opportunity to participate and to say that I 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.320 have furthered this creative project that deeply means something to me, 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.480 that I see the power and potential of this particular 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:31.320 artist as well. So the exchange that's there is you know, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.439 of course, the rewards piece, but it's really this opportunity 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.079 to be a part of something greater for the backer 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.280 and for the filmmaker the opportunities to continue to build 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:47.960 time and time again with that dedicated global community that 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:49.160 we have a Kickstarter. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.040 It's incredible that the amount of boundaries, the boundaries that 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.000 can sort of be erased by this ability. Let me 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:58.960 ask you, how is it. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.280 How is this money. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.360 Treated on a tax basis for a filmmaker? Is it 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:04.400 considered a donation? 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.840 So folks do have to pay their taxes and so 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.679 you know through the platform, when you know, once you 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.120 receive whatever you know, funding you've been able to raise, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.600 you do you do then have to pay your taxes. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.920 So that's something that filmmakers should account for. But there's 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:23.160 there's no surprise there. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.840 Right that you cannot outrun the I R s And 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:28.120 it is that time of year. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:34.840 Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, there's robust resources across our platform on 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.800 and we've increasingly just or recently rolled out products that 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.720 will continue to support filmmakers and make this entire process 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.960 less intimidating to filmmakers. But with these new products and 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.560 the resources that we've had available online previously, folks can 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:58.480 learn how to you know, manage your campaign from pre 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.880 launch all the way through the entire process, how to 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.440 really engage or backer community and how to fulfill those 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.400 rewards and yes, also how to manage taxes. All of 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.479 those resources are available on our platform. 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.800 It's interesting. And so as you start this, as you 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.200 start your job, you just recently joined the company at 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.160 the I believe it that toward the end of last year, 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.240 as you start this, where are you going to kind 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:26.920 of spread the word and sort of what is your 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.679 message directly to filmmakers once again, like why should they 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.360 come to Kickstarter. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:38.000 And these times especially it's greenlight yourself, greenlight yourself. That's 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:43.400 the opportunity here in working with our platform, working with 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:48.760 us and again we have this legacy of supporting artists 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.880 that I believe to be truly prolific. And that's what 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.079 has attracted me to wanting to be a part of 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:01.720 this mission that is very altruistic. You know, here at Kickstarter, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.840 there's a couple of examples from the Veronica Mars movie 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.720 all the way to following the career and trajectory of 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:16.200 folks like Ania da Costa, who had Little Woods, you know, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.920 on our platform and that went on to streaming at Hulu, 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:26.200 and then she directed the classic kind of horror film 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.479 Candy Man, and then onto a Marvel. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.520 Movie, the biggest of the big studio pictures. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.480 Yeah, the biggest of the big you know, everybody's dream. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.600 But she didn't let. The folks who utilize and work with, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.560 you know, our platform, they don't let. They don't wait 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.080 around for somebody to say yes to them. They green 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:49.040 light themselves. And so coming into this role in this 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.400 new year, what's going to be really big for us 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:57.240 is engaging creators, Engaging filmmakers with built in audiences, those 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:02.840 fan bases across genre, animation, horror, thriller, comedy. That's going 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.119 to be really huge for us. Along with supporting short films, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.080 we have our long standing program Long Story Short every 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.000 March that you know that that we launch to support 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.760 and further short films because that is where we see, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.719 of course a lot of the next generation of filmmakers 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:25.040 being active. So we'll always support the next generation. And 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:30.440 also we are really wanting established artists to know like 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.440 it is very possible for you to thrive and working 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.000 with our platform, you have. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.080 Like a March madness of short films. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.079 It sounds like exactly, that's exactly what it is. 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.679 That's do you are? They promoted it all on the 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.280 Kickstarter platform, how had it. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:53.280 Yes, we balked to you by yes, yes, exactly. We 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:59.320 go hard for our short program across our platform, across 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:04.080 our social and those long story short creators that emphasis, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.960 they found a lot of success. I mean, one of 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.439 them is going to be at south By Southwest presenting 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:15.040 her film this year. So it's a really strong program 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.760 where we've seen folks go on to Sundance, to south 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.600 By and other festivals. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:25.480 With so much production happening outside the US, in particular, 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.360 there's such an appetite for co productions within that there's 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.079 all kinds of different ways to piece together financing, and 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.360 an environment where people are piecing together financing, there's going 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.199 to be more appetite and more openness to different, you know, 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.960 all different forms of bringing in the dollars or euros 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.560 or whatever the you know, whatever the currency. 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.080 May be exactly. And what we have seen is that 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:54.720 folks do go both the traditional funding models and also 0:13:55.120 --> 0:14:02.360 utilize Kickstarter. We do seamlessly integrate into the overall creative process. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.960 If you're making a feature film and you need funds 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.120 for post it like the marketing campaign you know, example 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.800 of The Apprentice, or if you want to raise fully 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.560 for your feature or even series like folks do that 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.359 on our platform and they have found a lot of success. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.440 Where I should know this. Where is Kickstarter based? Give 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.280 me a sense of the scope of the organization that runs. 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.480 So the company started in New York and now it's 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:35.800 fully remote, fully remote, and you know a lot there's 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.520 still a lot of us based here in New York. 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:43.080 I Hill from Brooklyn. But yeah, we are a global 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.840 company with the global reach and over twenty million repeat 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.080 backers on the platform, and those folks are from all 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.600 over the world, and so we are very engaged in 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.120 how we can be really engaging those backers across our 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:59.640 platform to the film category. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.520 And this just question occurred to me. You have people 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.640 that donate in various currencies, correct, Yes, Yes, that in 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.600 and of itself itself must be a management. 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.680 Yes, and we're really great at it. We're really great 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.120 at it. And I also would like to just like 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.840 reframe the language of donation because I think, particularly for filmmakers, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.040 it is important for everyone to note the exchange, the 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.720 relationship that we're fostering on the platform and how they're 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:33.320 able to really build the trust with their backer community, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.440 their audience time and time again by utilizing our platform. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.720 It's really important. It's a difference, but I think it, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.720 you know, my one on one conversations kind of hitting 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.440 the ground running at Sundance and soon to be at 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:51.560 south By. It's really important for the industry to recognize. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.320 That, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more 0:15:54.400 --> 0:16:02.400 from Taylor case Jaw right after this break, and we're 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.680 back with more from Kickstarter executive Taylor case Shaw. Do 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.960 you offer any kind of a tiered access if you 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.680 if you pay more for a certain level of access, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.440 do you get in a certain level of support? Is 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.120 that part of one of the things that you're talking 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:15.840 to people about. 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:21.120 Yes, Tiered access or tiered rewards is a huge piece 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.080 of the draw for both the artists that utilize the 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.520 platform and backers. And so you know, you can offer 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:36.280 everything from a pen that is, uh, people go crazy, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.840 people go crazy for the pens all the way to 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.640 you know, a director's workshop all the way to like 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.640 a producer credit, and so that is really important to 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.200 the backer community. I think, especially for film is how 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.880 can they be able to say like, hey, I was 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.840 a part of this very special project that is now 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.400 you know, doing a large festival run and has like 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:02.480 meaningful distribution. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.159 Do you I know as an industry professional that you 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.359 know that this there's a lot of adjudication that goes 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:15.639 on with the guilds and different organizations around credits. Is 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.280 that is that something that you've had to navigate in 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.159 terms of in terms of if the if the artist 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.000 wants to do that kind of credit, there's got to 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.000 be ways to do it. But then there's also like 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.720 people lay people would be surprised if the amount of 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.920 energy that goes into adjudicating credits for obvious reasons. These 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.760 are from the heart and soul of people that you 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.560 know put everything into it. But that general issue, I'm 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:39.560 sure you've had to deal. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.000 With absolutely, and you can't always give those out and 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.520 so every filmmaker you know doesn't. But there are a 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.600 tons of rewards that it is possible to give your 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:55.879 back up community that makes them feel engaged in the project. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.280 So so yeah. 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:02.080 Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. Let me ask you 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.880 about your background. Before you know, you were a recent 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.160 person to have joined Kickstarter. Before that, you were part 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.560 of a company. You helped launch a company called Black 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.560 Women Anime that you did a lot of very interesting 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.040 You did brand work, you did some short films, some 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:22.040 interstitial work for companies like A and E Networks, Hulu, HBO, Netflix, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.520 just some little little companies out there. Talk about how 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.920 that experience of launching a company, being being in the 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.600 business of selling content and making content, how that has 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.160 helped prepare you for the job they have now. 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.640 Yeah, so I'm still operating BWA Studios, So. 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.440 That hasn't that that's not on the side right now, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.480 that is still an active Yeah. 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.439 Still operating it. And also when this opportunity opened up, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:54.640 I couldn't say no. Is really like a yes, yes 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.800 yes for me because I'm deeply committed to building and 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.800 structure for for artists to thrive. And that's because I 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.400 am an artist myself, and I know just how hard 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:12.320 it is to get exciting, adventurous work made in this 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.560 traditional system. I've had for slip deals, I've had agents, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.320 you know, I've done and I've tried to poke that 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:24.800 bear so many times. And the animation company is independent 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.639 and I originally started it because I was looking to 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.400 make an animated series about millennials who are too woke 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.359 to get real jobs. Yes, so they've come up with 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:41.240 all these crazy side hustles to get money for their art, 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.960 and they just so happened to be black women, you know, 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.800 women of color, and it was just so difficult to 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:52.160 find you know, black female animators that could work on 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.960 the on the project with me, and so then a 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.359 studio formed, and so just and through that entire process 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:04.040 of creating dependently working inside and outside of the studio system. 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:10.560 My heart is with filmmakers and I this is this 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.680 is a meaningful part of my journeys to be able 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.520 to be a part of Kickstarter and help grow this 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:20.199 legacy in future. 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.840 Have you to date in running Black Women Anime b 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.160 w A studios? Have you used Kickstarter or any kind 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.320 of crowdsourced funding. 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.520 We haven't yet. I have really hit the pavement getting 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.359 all kinds of funding, but we haven't yet. But it's 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:42.800 great about Kickstarter is that everyone is encouraged to be creative. 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.600 And we do have folks at Kickstarter who've run campaigns 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.200 and so you never know, you really never know. I 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.640 am both focused on supporting all of the filmmakers that 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.400 come to us on our platform, and I also committed 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.360 to creating because I think it's simp ordant to create 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.960 and have that information and then be able to impart 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.240 that onto the experiences that we have with filmmakers. So 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.080 who knows, TBD, I still need to make that show 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.720 because again that's and that just tells you how hard 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:15.720 it is. I mean it's been almost a decade. That 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.720 shows you how hard it is to get your your 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.679 work made. So so yeah, I am so pro a 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.199 potential campaign in the future. 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.520 Let's step back again. What was it that led you 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.000 You have both a business brain and a creative brain, 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.680 which is a rare combination. What was it that led 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.840 you to the you know, the work of being an animator, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.399 the work of being creative, and has led you to 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:40.640 to you know, what you've done so far. 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:47.400 Yes, I have a journalism degree, and I'll spare you 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:52.720 all of the details about how I landed in television 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.960 and film. But I started to work on different TV 0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:01.320 shows and and film sets and then later doing producing 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:05.200 for Viceland, Vice Media's TV channel, and so within all 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.280 of that, there was just so much content that I 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:12.640 wasn't seeing that I felt, you know, could be out there, 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.280 and so I was always pitching fresh ideas that you know, 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.920 what about this, what about this filmmaker, what about this creator? 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.479 And so that has been the foundation of my career, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.919 kind of seeing the gaps and wanting to in a 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:33.639 meaningful and genuine way provide an opportunity for for artists 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.040 to get their things made, to get their their films made. 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.080 And so that, you know, my my creative journey and 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:46.920 my business journey have always been very closely linked because yeah, 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.920 I think just it's really important. And again I'm attracted 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.760 to Kickstarter because of that altruism of we want to 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:59.680 see you create no matter what. And that's that's the foundation. 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.560 Of my as a business owner and at b w A. 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:05.320 What what is the stuff that you that you like 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:08.520 doing the most? Is it the is it the creative development? 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:10.760 Is it the marketing? Is it the get you know? 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:12.200 Is it? Is it the pitching? 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:17.560 I think about this a lot. I think about it 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:21.159 a lot because in our world we really try to 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.600 put it, We try to put folks in a box. 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:26.000 And like you said, it is a it is a 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:30.439 rare combination to you know, love building business and you know, 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:35.600 be be okay at it and also uh creating and 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:40.840 being an artist. And so I love having the opportunity 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:44.680 to inspire, and I believe for me that comes from 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:52.159 both business and art. So my brain goes to scaling 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:57.800 quite often. And also I'm in as as a New 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.240 Yorker who I'm just so inspired by life. So whenever 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:04.920 inspiration for me, it sparks equally on both sides when 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.280 it comes to business and when it comes to when 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:12.720 it comes to art. So again, this was like a 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.960 divine timing for me, this this role here with Kickstarter 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:24.560 opening up, because I'm constantly in creative conversation with amazing 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.399 filmmakers who are going to make their work no matter what. 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:31.119 That inspires me as an artist and also inspires me 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:34.879 on the business front because I'm just so driven to 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:36.520 ensure that they are successful. 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.760 And I'm sure you've a great perch to see a 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:42.399 lot of different strategies at going at it. 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:45.600 Yeah, so many strategies, And my brain then goes to, like, 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.480 how can we codify all of this? So a lot 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:52.320 of these, you know, really important and the questions that 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:55.200 you're asking about the process and the how that folks 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.640 just know, Oh, I'm just I'm gonna run that Kickstarter. 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:00.680 I'm gonna run the kickstarter campaign. It makes a lot 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:01.440 of sense. 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:05.920 What in your experience has made for a really successful 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.560 Kickstarter campaign? What does a filmmaker an artist have to 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:11.840 bring the table to really resonate, especially if they're not, 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:15.120 you know, already kind of a boldface name, but they're 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:15.640