1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today. My 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Shaw is the newly hired 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: senior Outreach Lead for Film at Kickstarter. She's also an 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: independent producer and an entrepreneur who leads BWA Studios. Shaw's 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: hire is a sign that Kickstarter wants to elevate the 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: activity that is generated on the platform by professional filmmakers. 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Kickstarter is not only a place to generate money for projects, 10 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: it can also be an engine of engaging with fans 11 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: and keeping them connected to projects and franchises. Shaw is 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: in the midst of a festival tour to talk to 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: industry insiders about how Kickstarter can bring them production funding 14 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: and more. But don't call it a donation. Shaw explains 15 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: why in the conversation that is coming right up after 16 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: this break and we're back with my conversation with Taylor 17 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: Ka Shaw, Senior Outreach Lead for Film for Kickstarter. Taylor 18 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: Ka Shaw, newly appointed head of Film for Kickstarter. Thank 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: you so much for joining me on this slightly rainy 20 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: day in New York. 21 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me and very very much so 22 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: looking forward to our conversation. 23 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: Tell me about what's your mandate coming in and what 24 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: was it about this job that attracted you to coming 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: to Kickstarter. 26 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: The mandate coming in is to bring awareness two filmmakers 27 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 2: who are established, who have that built in audience, to 28 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: bring awareness that Kickstarter has a long standing legacy of 29 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: supporting prolific talent and really helping them fund and launch 30 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: their careers, like the likes of Anisa Ray or Phoebe Wallerbridge. 31 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: And so it really brought me here is the alignment 32 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: between my passion for building strong infrastructure for artists to 33 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: thrive and really seeing the need in this moment for 34 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: all artists, all filmmakers, whether you're emerging or established, the 35 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: need to be creatively independent. 36 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: You go right to the heart of it is that 37 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: there is a sense that Kickstarter is for the person 38 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: that has been writing a script in their basement and 39 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: making super eight films and now has a great idea 40 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: and really wants to get out there, not for an 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: established showrunner an established screenwriter. But you're just telling me 42 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: that that is wrong. 43 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: Yes, the most recent example is with The Apprentice you know, 44 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: which now has two Oscar nominations, and they had a 45 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: lot of success at con they and Tell You Ride, 46 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: and they still had a lot of difficulty with getting 47 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: distribution for the film, and so they turned to Kickstarter 48 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: to really prove that the audience, the community, folks want 49 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: to see this film and it means something to folks. 50 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: And they did prove that, raising one hundred thousand and 51 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: just twelve hours and then overall four hundred thousand for 52 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: the marketing of the film. 53 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: Let me let's take let's use that as an example, 54 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: because obviously that was a very controversial film some both 55 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: financial considerations and unavoidably political conversations. Variety covered a lot 56 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: about The Apprentice, so we're very definitely, very well aware. 57 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: So when the first of all, how do you know, 58 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,119 Speaker 1: and this might have predated your joining Kickstarter, but did 59 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: somebody at Kickstarter reach out to people involved with the 60 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: film and say, hey, we might be able to help 61 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: or did they was that organic? Did they immediately go 62 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: to Kickstarter when they realized they were going to need 63 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: some help in bringing in some money pretty quickly. 64 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: So they came to Kickstarter, which I think is really 65 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: special because that only happens if you are aware of 66 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: the power of the platform and what is possible when 67 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: you allow for your community to participate and uplift your work. 68 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: So they took advantage of an opportunity to utilize our platform, 69 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: and that's one that every if you just look a 70 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: little bit more into our history, and I hope to 71 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: share that more here with you today. But if you 72 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: look into it, you can make a campaign and really 73 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: reach out to those who care about your work, and 74 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: it can sing, and so they take it upon themselves 75 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: to take their power back and start a grassroots movement. 76 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: Let me ask you the question that I've always had 77 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: with around crowdsourcing and these types of platforms. If the 78 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: people that are contributing to these funds, if the people 79 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: are doing it in fact to get a return on investment, 80 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: how do you track that, especially over the life cycle 81 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: of something like a film. 82 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: What is fabulous about Kickstarter is that our backers, the 83 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: backer community, they're not looking for a return on investment. 84 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: They are really looking to be a part of films, 85 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: creative projects that mean something to them. A great example 86 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: was with hair Love. You know that Oscar winning short 87 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: that went on to be a mac series for hair Love. 88 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 2: When that wind happened on you know, social media, everyone 89 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: who backed the Kickstarter campaign was like, I was a 90 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: part of this film, like you know, we want an oscar. 91 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 2: And so that is what the backer community at Kickstarter 92 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: is looking for. There is actually no equity exchange. What 93 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: they receive is rewards. Those rewards are ways for them 94 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: to be calm or receive something that allows for them 95 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 2: to be more deeply engaged in in the process, in 96 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: life cycle of the other projects. 97 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: It is. It is interesting and it's an it's an 98 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: interesting evolution in fandom that this kind of access and 99 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: this kind of opportunity to be part of something. Thinking 100 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: like a lawyer, like, are there are there any unexpected 101 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: downsides that the company has had to deal with? Are 102 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: there people that come back and then claim some kind 103 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: of authorship because they you know, I guess I'm asking 104 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: the Devil's advocate question in terms of in terms of 105 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: any kind of like rights or authorship or just claims 106 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: after the fact. 107 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: You know, from the very beginning to backers and two artists, 108 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: the real draw for artists is knowing that their IP 109 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: is their IP and we allow for full creative control 110 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: when that is not the norm. Creative ownership is not 111 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: the you know norm in the traditional funding, the traditional 112 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: studio model, definitely not. Yes, So our backers know that 113 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: from the beginning of supporting a project, and that's very 114 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: clearly laid out for everyone. The true I you know, 115 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: with the filmmakers I speak to, I really when they 116 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: express this sentiment that's concerned about, you know, how exactly 117 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: does this work. I've only you know, hit the pavement 118 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: the streets of LA trying to make it in the 119 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: traditional way. What I say is everyone is not an artist. 120 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: Everyone is not a filmmaker. So everyone doesn't have that 121 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: unique ability to tell a story that resonates and that 122 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: really helps us see each other as human beings. Everyone 123 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: doesn't have that skill, and so you are offering to 124 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: people the opportunity to participate and to say that I 125 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: have furthered this creative project that deeply means something to me, 126 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: that I see the power and potential of this particular 127 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: artist as well. So the exchange that's there is you know, 128 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 2: of course, the rewards piece, but it's really this opportunity 129 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 2: to be a part of something greater for the backer 130 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: and for the filmmaker the opportunities to continue to build 131 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: time and time again with that dedicated global community that 132 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: we have a Kickstarter. 133 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: It's incredible that the amount of boundaries, the boundaries that 134 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: can sort of be erased by this ability. Let me 135 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: ask you, how is it. 136 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: How is this money. 137 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: Treated on a tax basis for a filmmaker? Is it 138 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: considered a donation? 139 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: So folks do have to pay their taxes and so 140 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: you know through the platform, when you know, once you 141 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: receive whatever you know, funding you've been able to raise, 142 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: you do you do then have to pay your taxes. 143 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: So that's something that filmmakers should account for. But there's 144 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: there's no surprise there. 145 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: Right that you cannot outrun the I R s And 146 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: it is that time of year. 147 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, there's robust resources across our platform on 148 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: and we've increasingly just or recently rolled out products that 149 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: will continue to support filmmakers and make this entire process 150 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: less intimidating to filmmakers. But with these new products and 151 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: the resources that we've had available online previously, folks can 152 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: learn how to you know, manage your campaign from pre 153 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: launch all the way through the entire process, how to 154 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: really engage or backer community and how to fulfill those 155 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: rewards and yes, also how to manage taxes. All of 156 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,479 Speaker 2: those resources are available on our platform. 157 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting. And so as you start this, as you 158 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: start your job, you just recently joined the company at 159 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: the I believe it that toward the end of last year, 160 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: as you start this, where are you going to kind 161 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: of spread the word and sort of what is your 162 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: message directly to filmmakers once again, like why should they 163 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: come to Kickstarter. 164 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: And these times especially it's greenlight yourself, greenlight yourself. That's 165 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: the opportunity here in working with our platform, working with 166 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: us and again we have this legacy of supporting artists 167 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: that I believe to be truly prolific. And that's what 168 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: has attracted me to wanting to be a part of 169 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: this mission that is very altruistic. You know, here at Kickstarter, 170 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: there's a couple of examples from the Veronica Mars movie 171 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: all the way to following the career and trajectory of 172 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 2: folks like Ania da Costa, who had Little Woods, you know, 173 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: on our platform and that went on to streaming at Hulu, 174 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: and then she directed the classic kind of horror film 175 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,479 Speaker 2: Candy Man, and then onto a Marvel. 176 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: Movie, the biggest of the big studio pictures. 177 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the biggest of the big you know, everybody's dream. 178 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: But she didn't let. The folks who utilize and work with, 179 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: you know, our platform, they don't let. They don't wait 180 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 2: around for somebody to say yes to them. They green 181 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: light themselves. And so coming into this role in this 182 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: new year, what's going to be really big for us 183 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: is engaging creators, Engaging filmmakers with built in audiences, those 184 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: fan bases across genre, animation, horror, thriller, comedy. That's going 185 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,119 Speaker 2: to be really huge for us. Along with supporting short films, 186 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: we have our long standing program Long Story Short every 187 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: March that you know that that we launch to support 188 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: and further short films because that is where we see, 189 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 2: of course a lot of the next generation of filmmakers 190 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: being active. So we'll always support the next generation. And 191 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: also we are really wanting established artists to know like 192 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: it is very possible for you to thrive and working 193 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: with our platform, you have. 194 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: Like a March madness of short films. 195 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 2: It sounds like exactly, that's exactly what it is. 196 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: That's do you are? They promoted it all on the 197 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: Kickstarter platform, how had it. 198 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: Yes, we balked to you by yes, yes, exactly. We 199 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 2: go hard for our short program across our platform, across 200 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: our social and those long story short creators that emphasis, 201 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 2: they found a lot of success. I mean, one of 202 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 2: them is going to be at south By Southwest presenting 203 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: her film this year. So it's a really strong program 204 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: where we've seen folks go on to Sundance, to south 205 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: By and other festivals. 206 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: With so much production happening outside the US, in particular, 207 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: there's such an appetite for co productions within that there's 208 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: all kinds of different ways to piece together financing, and 209 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: an environment where people are piecing together financing, there's going 210 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: to be more appetite and more openness to different, you know, 211 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: all different forms of bringing in the dollars or euros 212 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: or whatever the you know, whatever the currency. 213 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: May be exactly. And what we have seen is that 214 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: folks do go both the traditional funding models and also 215 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: utilize Kickstarter. We do seamlessly integrate into the overall creative process. 216 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 2: If you're making a feature film and you need funds 217 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: for post it like the marketing campaign you know, example 218 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: of The Apprentice, or if you want to raise fully 219 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: for your feature or even series like folks do that 220 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 2: on our platform and they have found a lot of success. 221 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: Where I should know this. Where is Kickstarter based? Give 222 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: me a sense of the scope of the organization that runs. 223 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: So the company started in New York and now it's 224 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: fully remote, fully remote, and you know a lot there's 225 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: still a lot of us based here in New York. 226 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: I Hill from Brooklyn. But yeah, we are a global 227 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: company with the global reach and over twenty million repeat 228 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: backers on the platform, and those folks are from all 229 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: over the world, and so we are very engaged in 230 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: how we can be really engaging those backers across our 231 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: platform to the film category. 232 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: And this just question occurred to me. You have people 233 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: that donate in various currencies, correct, Yes, Yes, that in 234 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: and of itself itself must be a management. 235 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: Yes, and we're really great at it. We're really great 236 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: at it. And I also would like to just like 237 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: reframe the language of donation because I think, particularly for filmmakers, 238 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: it is important for everyone to note the exchange, the 239 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: relationship that we're fostering on the platform and how they're 240 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: able to really build the trust with their backer community, 241 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: their audience time and time again by utilizing our platform. 242 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: It's really important. It's a difference, but I think it, 243 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: you know, my one on one conversations kind of hitting 244 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: the ground running at Sundance and soon to be at 245 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: south By. It's really important for the industry to recognize. 246 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: That, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more 247 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: from Taylor case Jaw right after this break, and we're 248 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: back with more from Kickstarter executive Taylor case Shaw. Do 249 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: you offer any kind of a tiered access if you 250 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: if you pay more for a certain level of access, 251 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: do you get in a certain level of support? Is 252 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: that part of one of the things that you're talking 253 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: to people about. 254 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: Yes, Tiered access or tiered rewards is a huge piece 255 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: of the draw for both the artists that utilize the 256 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: platform and backers. And so you know, you can offer 257 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 2: everything from a pen that is, uh, people go crazy, 258 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: people go crazy for the pens all the way to 259 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: you know, a director's workshop all the way to like 260 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: a producer credit, and so that is really important to 261 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: the backer community. I think, especially for film is how 262 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: can they be able to say like, hey, I was 263 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 2: a part of this very special project that is now 264 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: you know, doing a large festival run and has like 265 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 2: meaningful distribution. 266 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 1: Do you I know as an industry professional that you 267 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: know that this there's a lot of adjudication that goes 268 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: on with the guilds and different organizations around credits. Is 269 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: that is that something that you've had to navigate in 270 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: terms of in terms of if the if the artist 271 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: wants to do that kind of credit, there's got to 272 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: be ways to do it. But then there's also like 273 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: people lay people would be surprised if the amount of 274 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: energy that goes into adjudicating credits for obvious reasons. These 275 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: are from the heart and soul of people that you 276 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: know put everything into it. But that general issue, I'm 277 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: sure you've had to deal. 278 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: With absolutely, and you can't always give those out and 279 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: so every filmmaker you know doesn't. But there are a 280 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: tons of rewards that it is possible to give your 281 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: back up community that makes them feel engaged in the project. 282 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: So so yeah. 283 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. Let me ask you 284 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: about your background. Before you know, you were a recent 285 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: person to have joined Kickstarter. Before that, you were part 286 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: of a company. You helped launch a company called Black 287 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Women Anime that you did a lot of very interesting 288 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: You did brand work, you did some short films, some 289 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: interstitial work for companies like A and E Networks, Hulu, HBO, Netflix, 290 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: just some little little companies out there. Talk about how 291 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: that experience of launching a company, being being in the 292 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: business of selling content and making content, how that has 293 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: helped prepare you for the job they have now. 294 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm still operating BWA Studios, So. 295 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: That hasn't that that's not on the side right now, 296 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: that is still an active Yeah. 297 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: Still operating it. And also when this opportunity opened up, 298 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 2: I couldn't say no. Is really like a yes, yes 299 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: yes for me because I'm deeply committed to building and 300 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: structure for for artists to thrive. And that's because I 301 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 2: am an artist myself, and I know just how hard 302 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: it is to get exciting, adventurous work made in this 303 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: traditional system. I've had for slip deals, I've had agents, 304 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: you know, I've done and I've tried to poke that 305 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: bear so many times. And the animation company is independent 306 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 2: and I originally started it because I was looking to 307 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: make an animated series about millennials who are too woke 308 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: to get real jobs. Yes, so they've come up with 309 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: all these crazy side hustles to get money for their art, 310 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: and they just so happened to be black women, you know, 311 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 2: women of color, and it was just so difficult to 312 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: find you know, black female animators that could work on 313 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: the on the project with me, and so then a 314 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 2: studio formed, and so just and through that entire process 315 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: of creating dependently working inside and outside of the studio system. 316 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: My heart is with filmmakers and I this is this 317 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 2: is a meaningful part of my journeys to be able 318 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: to be a part of Kickstarter and help grow this 319 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 2: legacy in future. 320 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: Have you to date in running Black Women Anime b 321 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: w A studios? Have you used Kickstarter or any kind 322 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: of crowdsourced funding. 323 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: We haven't yet. I have really hit the pavement getting 324 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: all kinds of funding, but we haven't yet. But it's 325 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: great about Kickstarter is that everyone is encouraged to be creative. 326 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 2: And we do have folks at Kickstarter who've run campaigns 327 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 2: and so you never know, you really never know. I 328 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: am both focused on supporting all of the filmmakers that 329 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: come to us on our platform, and I also committed 330 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 2: to creating because I think it's simp ordant to create 331 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 2: and have that information and then be able to impart 332 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: that onto the experiences that we have with filmmakers. So 333 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: who knows, TBD, I still need to make that show 334 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: because again that's and that just tells you how hard 335 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: it is. I mean it's been almost a decade. That 336 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: shows you how hard it is to get your your 337 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 2: work made. So so yeah, I am so pro a 338 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 2: potential campaign in the future. 339 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: Let's step back again. What was it that led you 340 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: You have both a business brain and a creative brain, 341 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: which is a rare combination. What was it that led 342 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: you to the you know, the work of being an animator, 343 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: the work of being creative, and has led you to 344 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: to you know, what you've done so far. 345 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I have a journalism degree, and I'll spare you 346 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: all of the details about how I landed in television 347 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 2: and film. But I started to work on different TV 348 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: shows and and film sets and then later doing producing 349 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: for Viceland, Vice Media's TV channel, and so within all 350 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: of that, there was just so much content that I 351 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 2: wasn't seeing that I felt, you know, could be out there, 352 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: and so I was always pitching fresh ideas that you know, 353 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 2: what about this, what about this filmmaker, what about this creator? 354 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 2: And so that has been the foundation of my career, 355 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: kind of seeing the gaps and wanting to in a 356 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 2: meaningful and genuine way provide an opportunity for for artists 357 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: to get their things made, to get their their films made. 358 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: And so that, you know, my my creative journey and 359 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: my business journey have always been very closely linked because yeah, 360 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 2: I think just it's really important. And again I'm attracted 361 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: to Kickstarter because of that altruism of we want to 362 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 2: see you create no matter what. And that's that's the foundation. 363 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: Of my as a business owner and at b w A. 364 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: What what is the stuff that you that you like 365 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: doing the most? Is it the is it the creative development? 366 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: Is it the marketing? Is it the get you know? 367 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: Is it? Is it the pitching? 368 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: I think about this a lot. I think about it 369 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 2: a lot because in our world we really try to 370 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: put it, We try to put folks in a box. 371 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 2: And like you said, it is a it is a 372 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 2: rare combination to you know, love building business and you know, 373 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: be be okay at it and also uh creating and 374 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: being an artist. And so I love having the opportunity 375 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 2: to inspire, and I believe for me that comes from 376 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: both business and art. So my brain goes to scaling 377 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: quite often. And also I'm in as as a New 378 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: Yorker who I'm just so inspired by life. So whenever 379 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 2: inspiration for me, it sparks equally on both sides when 380 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: it comes to business and when it comes to when 381 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: it comes to art. So again, this was like a 382 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: divine timing for me, this this role here with Kickstarter 383 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: opening up, because I'm constantly in creative conversation with amazing 384 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: filmmakers who are going to make their work no matter what. 385 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: That inspires me as an artist and also inspires me 386 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 2: on the business front because I'm just so driven to 387 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: ensure that they are successful. 388 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: And I'm sure you've a great perch to see a 389 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: lot of different strategies at going at it. 390 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so many strategies, And my brain then goes to, like, 391 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: how can we codify all of this? So a lot 392 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: of these, you know, really important and the questions that 393 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 2: you're asking about the process and the how that folks 394 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 2: just know, Oh, I'm just I'm gonna run that Kickstarter. 395 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna run the kickstarter campaign. It makes a lot 396 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: of sense. 397 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: What in your experience has made for a really successful 398 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: Kickstarter campaign? What does a filmmaker an artist have to 399 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: bring the table to really resonate, especially if they're not, 400 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, already kind of a boldface name, but they're 401 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: coming up. 402 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, folks who do have a community and audience, 403 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: a fan base, our platform is really primed for them 404 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: to succeed. Absolutely, and also for emerging talent that is 405 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: trying to get out there. We have, as I shared, 406 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 2: the twenty million plus backers across our platform. We have 407 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 2: the resources and tools to tell them how to run 408 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: a very successful campaign and then the infrastructure to support 409 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: them with engaging their community. And so you know, what 410 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: you really need is I think the confidence and the 411 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 2: drive to do it no matter what for emerging talent, 412 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: and they've seen a ton of success in launching their 413 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: careers on the platform along with established folks. If you 414 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 2: already have that built in base, you can expect to 415 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: see them show up for you utilizing our platform. A 416 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 2: really great example is Critical Role. They had a really 417 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: great online presence. They wanted to make an animated film 418 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: and they did the Legend of Ox Machina, which ended 419 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 2: up making its way to Amazon Prime. They raised eleven 420 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: point three million with eighty eight thousand, almost eighty nine 421 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: thousand backers coming to support them. And so that's a 422 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: real testament to fostering community and audience and then you 423 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: know your our platform is trusted, you're able to bring 424 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: them over to us. Last thing I'll say is for 425 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 2: emerging talent. You know, we live in this world of 426 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 2: social media, and you know, everybody, everybody as a million followers. 427 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: And everybody lives every second of their lives on social media. 428 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: It seems yes, and I think the I think folks 429 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: are moving away from that. That's another conversation. But you know, 430 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 2: really you don't need a million followers. You need one 431 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: thousand people who get your work and want to support 432 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 2: it and who will back you with that with the 433 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 2: knowledge of like I supply this person's work is meaningful 434 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: to me. And I think when we break down the numbers, 435 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: it's so intimidating to It can be so intimidating to 436 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: launch any type of campaign of funding, you know, not 437 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 2: just just crowdfunding. It's really important that artists understand that 438 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 2: one person at a time, you know, one backroun at 439 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: a time, you can you can do it, and so 440 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 2: I'm We're excited to continue to engage emerging filmmakers and 441 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: support them on that journey. 442 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: Taylor, you're about to hit the festival, search it all. 443 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: We both know these are very uncertain times for the 444 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: film business. What are you out there looking for? What 445 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: green shoots? What? What are you hoping to find as 446 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: you go around the country and talk to people. 447 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 2: We'll be at south By Southwest next We're presenting a 448 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: sponsor for their Film and TV Awards, and we're also 449 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: hosting a dinner with the narrative feature filmmakers across the board. 450 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: What we're looking for at Tribeca this year, at other 451 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 2: you know, festivals and opportunities that we have to meet 452 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: with filmmakers. We are looking for people who are ready 453 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: to go now, and we're also looking to connect with 454 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: industry partners who also want to support independent filmmaking because now, 455 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: now is the time, The opportunity is now, and we 456 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: can't wait for that green light. 457 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 458 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music. We love to hear from listeners. 459 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for 460 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to 461 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.