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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace well as a Standford rape

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Speaker 1: case all over again. Remember the name Brock, because I

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Speaker 1: sure do. When a woman is sex assaulted out by

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Speaker 1: the dumpster and the star tennis player walks free because

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Speaker 1: the judge was involved at tennis in Stanford before he

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Speaker 1: took the bitch that caused an outcry like no other.

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Speaker 1: And you think something like that would never happen again.

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Speaker 1: Why do we always think it will quote never happen again,

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Speaker 1: Because guess what, every single time it does happen again.

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Speaker 1: And now another rape victim is left in tears being

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Speaker 1: inflated by a single judge. That's why I hate Ban's trials.

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Speaker 1: When you don't have a jury and you'll let the

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Speaker 1: judge make the decision. You know what. I'm putting the

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Speaker 1: cart before the horse. First of all, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to my old friend Tom Roberts Daily Mail listen. Onty

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, sixteen year old Cameron Vaughan attended the

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Speaker 1: graduation party. By her own admission, she had too much

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Speaker 1: to drink, so her friends let her fall asleep on

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Speaker 1: a couch. When she regained consciousness, she realized she was

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Speaker 1: being sexually assaulted. The next day, she went to the

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Speaker 1: hospital where a rape kid test Armed with evidence. The

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Speaker 1: Bond family took eighteen year old Drew Clinton to court

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Speaker 1: in October. He was found guilty of criminal sexual assault

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Speaker 1: by Judge Robert Adrian. In events trial, there is no jury,

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Speaker 1: only a judge. Clinton was facing a minimal mandatory sentence

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Speaker 1: in four years in prison, but that all changed on

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Speaker 1: January fourth, when Judge Adrian reversed his decision. According to

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Speaker 1: the court transcript, he said, there is no way what

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Speaker 1: happened in this case that this teenager should go to

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Speaker 1: the Department of Corrections. I will not do that. Mister

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Speaker 1: Clinton has served almost five months in the county jail,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty eight days for what happened in

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Speaker 1: this case. That is plenty of punishment. Clinton was set

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Speaker 1: free his guilty conviction overturned. Drew Clinton cannot be charged

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Speaker 1: again under the rules of double jeopardy. Yeah, once you're trying,

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Speaker 1: it can't be tried again. Don't you remember how happy A. J.

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Speaker 1: Simpson was when he was found not guilty. He could

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Speaker 1: never be tried for double murder again. It's called double jeopardy. I,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime stories thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and series Sex one eleven.

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Speaker 1: Everybody wherever you are will look around you. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: right now because one out of four women, girls teens

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Speaker 1: around you, at least one out of four had been

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Speaker 1: sex assaulted. Think about it, one out of four. Yet

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Speaker 1: a very minuscule percentage of rape victims come forward. Why

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Speaker 1: because of people like Judge Robert Adrian. Judge Robert Adrian,

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Speaker 1: let's remember his name? What happened to the case? With me?

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Speaker 1: An all star panel to try to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now? Meghan Disterhaus, PhD, Executive director

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Speaker 1: with the Quincy Area Network Against Domestic Abuse, and she's

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Speaker 1: got a lot to say, as you can imagine. Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: former felony prosecutor and Inner City the Atlanta now private

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Speaker 1: lawyer at Cohen, Cooper, Estep and Allen. Wow, that sounds important.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta area specializing indo treatment of women. Founder and director

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Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute at Coldcase Crimes dot org.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl mccaull and together, she and I and the trenches

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Speaker 1: have seen a lot of rape cases very similar to

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Speaker 1: this one. And I can guarantee you this nobody walked

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Speaker 1: free after a rape, not that if I could help it.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Ron Effelbin joining us E our physician, founder and

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Speaker 1: medical director a first call medical center, and author of

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Speaker 1: Surviving Coronavirus. Wow, that's a whole other canon worms, doctor

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Speaker 1: Ron Efelbin. But first to Matt Hoff, executive editor the

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Speaker 1: Herald Wig Quincy, Illinois. You know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have never heard of Quincy, Illinois. I know how that

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Speaker 1: feels coming from making Georgia. But this is a heck

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Speaker 1: of a way to get your town on the map.

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Speaker 1: So let's just start at the beginning. Do I have

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Speaker 1: it right, Matt? And please everybody jump in. Don't wait

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Speaker 1: for me to come to you with the question, except you,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. Matt, do I understand that adults we're having

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Speaker 1: a swim part at their home for a group of

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Speaker 1: teenagers as young as sixteen and willingly allowed them all

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Speaker 1: to get a snoop full to drink and jump in

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Speaker 1: the pool and their underwear. I mean it was a

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Speaker 1: swim party. They didn't think to bring swimsuits. Um my understanding.

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Speaker 1: It was a it was a graduation party. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: uh what the family has talked about. Um and days

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm asking about, Matt Booze. There was alcohol

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Speaker 1: at the party that the teenagers were that the teenagers

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Speaker 1: were consuming. And you know when people, when teenagers drink,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they you know, they'll jump in the

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Speaker 1: pool and maybe they'll jump in their you know, whatever

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Speaker 1: they're wearing. Okay, whatever they're wearing would be clothes, not

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Speaker 1: their underwear. Yeah, but that's that's apparently what happened or

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Speaker 1: uh they she apparently had jumped in to the pool

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Speaker 1: in hunterware according to uh, just her. Let's not single

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Speaker 1: at her. And you know what, I like Thomas Roberts.

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Speaker 1: I worked with him for a long time at H Jillen.

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Speaker 1: But when I get a hold of him, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to grab him by the ear and twist it because

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Speaker 1: he started his report with she admitted she had been drinking.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh, okay, so the rape didn't happen because she

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Speaker 1: had been drinking. Okay, So Matt hop executive editor at

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Speaker 1: The Herald Wig in Quincy at wig dot com. Matt,

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Speaker 1: I'm a JD. That's a lawyer. I'm not a DDS.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to pull teeth, but I can

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Speaker 1: certainly try. So. I managed to get out of you

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Speaker 1: that people were jumping into the pool in their underwear

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Speaker 1: at the swim party at this private residence where alcohol

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Speaker 1: was being served to teens as young as sixteen. Now,

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Speaker 1: let me understand something, Matt. What is the legal ash

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Speaker 1: to drink in Quincy? Has anybody slap these parents with

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Speaker 1: a lossuit it? I'm aware of me either. I thought

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Speaker 1: maybe you would hurt something or knew of something brewing

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know. But I agree with you, Matt.

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Speaker 1: No lawsuits yet, and that's a big emphasis on yet. Guys.

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Speaker 1: As you can tell, this has all gone sideways. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eighteen our friends at Inside Edition.

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Speaker 1: This high school team is furious after a judge set

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Speaker 1: free the student she says raped her after just one

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Speaker 1: hundred forty eight days in jail. Sixteen year old Cameron

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Speaker 1: Vaughan says she was assaulted at a graduation party last May.

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Speaker 1: I woke up and I couldn't really breathe because I

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Speaker 1: had a pillow over my face and I could feel

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Speaker 1: somebody like continue. I said stop multiple times, and you wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: In October, a judge found eighteen year old Drew Clinton

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Speaker 1: guilty of sexual assault, but now he is reversing his

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Speaker 1: decision and releasing Clinton from custody. Mister Clinton has served

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Speaker 1: almost five months in the county jail. Illinois Judge Robert

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Speaker 1: Adrian said last week for what happened in this case,

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Speaker 1: that is plenty of punishment. Plenty of punishment, one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty eight days in the county jail. Let me

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Speaker 1: ask you this to you, Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor

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Speaker 1: now private attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction, have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen Andy of Mayberry, and you know about the county

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Speaker 1: jail when Otis would walk in the town drunk. I

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Speaker 1: know we don't say that anymore. The town alcohol addicted

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Speaker 1: person comes in and lets himself into the cell and

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Speaker 1: then locks the key and hangs it on the wall. Okay,

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Speaker 1: has well, and give it to me in a nutshell,

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Speaker 1: because I know you're used to making long, loquacious arguments

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Speaker 1: to judge's injury your captive audience. In a nutshell, Why

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Speaker 1: does everybody want to serve time in the local jail

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Speaker 1: versus going into the system in the pen nutsail? Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Nancy. Let's talk about local jails, not large

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Speaker 1: city jails such as Atlanta or New York or Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Local jails are easy. You get home cooked meals, you're

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Speaker 1: taking care of. You don't have to worry about other

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Speaker 1: violent criminals being around you. It's much easier. It's not

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Speaker 1: a country club, but it clearly is not a prison exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's easy street. So this guy, and he's not a kid,

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Speaker 1: he is eighteen years old, does one hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: eight days behind bars at a local jail, and after

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Speaker 1: there is a bench trial where the case is tried

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Speaker 1: in front of a judge, not a jury. FYI to

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Speaker 1: all you lawyers out there and anybody listen, don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Do not have a bench trial. You never know what

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Speaker 1: a judge is going to do. The judge himself can

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Speaker 1: vix this guy of rate on a sixteen year old

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Speaker 1: girl who wakes up with a pillow over her face

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Speaker 1: being raped. According to her, The judge finds him guilty

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Speaker 1: on one of the four accounts. The penalty for criminal

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Speaker 1: sex assault and that jurisdiction is four to fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: As I recall, Matt, four to fifteen so he gives

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Speaker 1: them that would be correct for a class one colony. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So when it comes time a month later for sentencing,

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Speaker 1: they all come in the courtroom for the sentencing and

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Speaker 1: the judge suddenly reverses his own decision and says one

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty eight days is enough and lets the

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Speaker 1: rapist walk free. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. All right,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum, let me understand, this wasn't the girl. She

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Speaker 1: wakes up in tears. She calls her father, which tells me,

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Speaker 1: this really happened. The last thing you're going to do

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Speaker 1: after consensual sex at age sixteen is call your father

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Speaker 1: to come pick you up. Okay, that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: She calls her father, He comes and picks her up,

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Speaker 1: and Matt Hopp the Harold Wig. Don't they go to

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Speaker 1: the hospital and get a rape kit? What happened. What

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Speaker 1: happened was after the party, they had went to another

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Speaker 1: acquaintance's house where she was going to I believe, spend

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Speaker 1: the night, and that was the location where the sexual

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Speaker 1: assault occurred. And after that, after she had said she

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Speaker 1: had pushed mister Clinton off of her, that she went

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Speaker 1: she went in to another room to speak to a friend,

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Speaker 1: and they apparently took her back to her her house

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Speaker 1: where they just spent the night in their parents her

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Speaker 1: parents r V and then the next morning she told

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Speaker 1: she told her father, who called the police, and it

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Speaker 1: was the police who transferred to the hospital for the

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Speaker 1: rape kit. We did the rate occur, Matt hop It

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Speaker 1: was at a at another home. It wasn't at where

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Speaker 1: the party took place. It was like a like a

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Speaker 1: friend's home. And how was the defendant, Drew Clinton related

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Speaker 1: to the party house. I don't know how he was

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Speaker 1: related to the party house. I just know that he

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Speaker 1: was there. It might have been he might have been invited,

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Speaker 1: He might have known somebody there. M okay. Back to

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Speaker 1: Sheryl mccollin, director the Cold Case Research Institute JUMP in Nancy.

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Speaker 1: A lot of men wonder why women crochet vagina hats

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Speaker 1: and wear them in March on Washington. It's because a

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Speaker 1: crap like this. You and I started our careers in

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Speaker 1: domestic violence and Great Crisis, and we are having the

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Speaker 1: same conversations that you and I had thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: It is absolutely maddening that you're gonna sit there even today,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about She was drinking and she went

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Speaker 1: skinny dipping, and what she was wearing and where she

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Speaker 1: passed out. Nobody's talked about him. Nobody's talking about what

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Speaker 1: he had to drink, what he was wearing, whether or

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Speaker 1: not he went skinny dipping, he wasn't wearing. And that's

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Speaker 1: his pants, all right, So let's just starting that, and

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Speaker 1: she cheryl that after she pushes him off her, she

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Speaker 1: yanks up her own pants and he just jumps up

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Speaker 1: and starts playing video games like nothing happened. Okay, hold on,

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Speaker 1: I need a shrink on this. Doctor Angela Arnold renounced

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Speaker 1: like Kaliatrice joining us out of Atlanta. He can find

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Speaker 1: her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Angela jump in, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: If people haven't worked with rape victims, then they have

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Speaker 1: no clue how hard it is for a rape victim

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Speaker 1: who come forward. This little girl at sixteen year old

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Speaker 1: years old comes forward, and now a judge has emboldened

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Speaker 1: her rapist. And let's think about something, Nancy. Not every

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Speaker 1: boy in the country ripes a girl just because there

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Speaker 1: might be an opportunity to do so, because she might

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Speaker 1: be passed out. So there is something wrong with this boy. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a sexual predator and he always will be, and

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Speaker 1: now he's been emboldened by this judge. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friend Dave Matt at crime online dot com

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Speaker 1: our cut seven. The parents of Cameron Vaughan have provided

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Speaker 1: a copy of the Quincy Police Department report to the

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Speaker 1: Harold Wig that detail what they say took place at

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Speaker 1: a Memorial Day weekend graduation party. According to sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old Cameron Vaughn, she attended the party, got drunk, went

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Speaker 1: in the pool, and eventually passed out. She told police

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Speaker 1: that she woke up with a pillow being pushed on

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Speaker 1: her face and that she was being sexually assaulted by

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Speaker 1: Drew Clinton. Clinton is from Michigan but used to attend

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Speaker 1: Quincy Public schools. Cameron says she told Clinton to stop,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't until she told him a second time

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Speaker 1: and pushed him off her. According to the police report,

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Speaker 1: Cameron went into a bedroom in the house, where she

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Speaker 1: told a friend what happened. She got a ride back

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Speaker 1: to her home with two friends, where they slept in

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Speaker 1: her parents' camper before they went into the house in

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Speaker 1: the morning. Once inside the house, Cameron told her father's

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Speaker 1: good Vaughn, at which time he called the police. Two

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Speaker 1: special guests joining us, the executive director of the Quincy

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Speaker 1: Area Network Against Domestic Abuse, Megan dister House. Megan, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us, you know, grateful to be here.

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Speaker 1: One thing that was very important to me when I

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Speaker 1: prosecuted rape cases, and I prosecuted more of them than

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Speaker 1: I can even count or remember, is outcry outcry? What

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Speaker 1: is outcry? Outcry is a technical legal word actually when

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Speaker 1: in the case of rape accusations or other felonies, and

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Speaker 1: it refers to a victim at the time contemporaneously with

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Speaker 1: the crime making an outcry, in other words, telling someone

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Speaker 1: what happened. We're seeing it right now in the Epstein

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Speaker 1: Jelene Maxwell case where Virginia Jeffries, we now know, made

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Speaker 1: an outcry about Prince Andrew having sex with her when

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Speaker 1: she was sixteen at the time. We're hearing now, all

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Speaker 1: these years later about an outcry witness this young girl

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Speaker 1: just sixteen makes outcry to her friends and then goes

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Speaker 1: and tells her dad. And I can tell you this much.

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Speaker 1: If that had been consensual sex with another team boy,

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Speaker 1: the last thing she would have done is go in

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Speaker 1: and say Hey, dad, guess what happened last night? That

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Speaker 1: is not going to happen Megan, Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what's really happened here is this judge in this case,

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Speaker 1: he made all these statements in court on the record

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Speaker 1: to the victim in her family. And when you're going

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Speaker 1: into a trial like this, you always want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you're a victim understands that court cases, whether

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Speaker 1: it's a bench trail or jury trial, can really go

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Speaker 1: either way in sexual assault cases, and you want the

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Speaker 1: victim to be prepared that there might not be a

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Speaker 1: conviction and that the perpetrator might get to walk. But

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Speaker 1: what we typically don't have to prepare them for is

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Speaker 1: that they might be chastised by the judge in open

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Speaker 1: court on the record. Have their parents chastis when they

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Speaker 1: were in court for a sentencing where they I believe

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Speaker 1: they're meant to be there to read their victim impact states.

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Speaker 1: So this young woman came into court prepared to hell

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Speaker 1: the court how she had been impacted and affected after

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Speaker 1: this installed and instead she got a verbal diatribe from

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Speaker 1: the judge. What was she chest tied about, Megan um

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Speaker 1: the fact that she was drinking underage, that she attended

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Speaker 1: a party and got in a pool and didn't have

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Speaker 1: a suit, so we're underwear like and from an advocacy

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Speaker 1: advocacy perspective, none of that matters, Like absolutely matters. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: it does matter. Okay, you are gonna have to take

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Speaker 1: your turn. It'll be a cold And I where that

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen didn't have a drink when he was sixteen.

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Speaker 1: First of all, just for safety reasons, Jackie, let's mute him,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, just for just for a moment, please finish

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Speaker 1: Megan Dister House. Yes, it doesn't. It doesn't matter in

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Speaker 1: the sense that when you make a risky decision or

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Speaker 1: an unmoisted choice, like let's say, underage drinking um and

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Speaker 1: you get maybe arrested for that, the penalty is usually

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Speaker 1: like you know, a fine, a drinking ticket. You might

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Speaker 1: have to do some community service for a nonprofit. The

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Speaker 1: penalty for underage drinking is not raced. And also, swimming

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Speaker 1: in your underwear, even swimming dude, running around naked is

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Speaker 1: not an invitation for sexual assault. People are able to

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Speaker 1: control themselves. It is absolutely offensive to men to suggest

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Speaker 1: that because they may see someone in their underwear or

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Speaker 1: through the pool that they will later not be able

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Speaker 1: to control themselves. Nancy, And I'd like to point something

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Speaker 1: out also, was everybody raped at this party? Exactly? She

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Speaker 1: was not the only one jumping in and her underwear

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Speaker 1: so to do even occur at the party. The rape

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Speaker 1: was at like a third location. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, before you start your rant, let me ask

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Speaker 1: you one question and this is a yes no answer.

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Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true that when you prosecuted rape cases, you

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Speaker 1: prosecuted cases where a victim may have been drinking at

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Speaker 1: the time of the rape, may have been using drugs

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Speaker 1: at the time of the rape, may have been a

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Speaker 1: prostitute at the time of the rape, may have been

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Speaker 1: on a date at the time of the rape. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that true? Yes, that's a yes no. So now you're

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney, you want it the other way? Okay,

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Speaker 1: have that it. We're ready for you. No, Nancy, if

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Speaker 1: this girl was drunk, there's a difference between drinking and drunk.

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Speaker 1: Did this actually happen? Obviously it did. Did this happen

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Speaker 1: as a rape? We don't know that. Are there other witnesses?

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Speaker 1: I wasn't at that trial, but let's not castigate everybody.

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Speaker 1: I like bench trials when my client is innocent. I

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Speaker 1: love jury trials if I think my client is guilty,

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Speaker 1: because twelve minuted women can sometimes be convinced and confused.

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Speaker 1: Where I want that judge who if I know him

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Speaker 1: or her, I know how they will think. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I want a jury trial, come hell or high water.

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Speaker 1: Don't care who the judges, don't care who the defendant is,

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Speaker 1: don't care who the victim is. I trust a jury

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Speaker 1: more than I trust some political hack appointee up on

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Speaker 1: the bench that really doesn't even know the law. But

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Speaker 1: that's just me because I like well true verdict, a

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Speaker 1: verdict that speaks the truth. But hold on, if you're

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Speaker 1: still not convinced this girl was raped, even though this

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Speaker 1: jack ass judge then later reversed his own verdict and

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Speaker 1: let the defendant go, this girl and her father go

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Speaker 1: for a rape kit. Let me go to doctor ron

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Speaker 1: Ethelbyne e er physician and founder and medical director at

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Speaker 1: First Call Medical Center, now doctor Elfinbyne. I know that

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Speaker 1: in medical school it is very, very intense and you

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Speaker 1: deal with so many life and death situations. But I'm

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Speaker 1: going to ask you a very practical question in the

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Speaker 1: e R where you practice now, which I think must

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Speaker 1: be one of the most stressful positions for a doctor.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could be out in Beverly Hills doing

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Speaker 1: plastic surgery, pumping up people's lips and sucking out there

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Speaker 1: fat and all that. But instead you're on the front line,

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Speaker 1: and I consider that God's work. That's just me, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Elfin Byne, again, thank you for being with us in

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Speaker 1: the emergency room. That is where you typically see rape victims. First, correct? Correct?

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Speaker 1: What is a rape kit? What did this team girl

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Speaker 1: have to endure in order to make her case? And

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Speaker 1: please just be blunt. Yeah, So before I guess, I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious because I've I've been listening to the whole conversation.

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Speaker 1: Why would the esecutor allow us to go forward at

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Speaker 1: defense trial? Why we didn't they ask for a jury trial? Okay, Darrell,

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Speaker 1: jump in there. Jurisdictions where the prosecution has no choice,

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Speaker 1: in Georgia they now do quite frankly. Perhaps the prosecution

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Speaker 1: had state's attorney had no ability to say no, he

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Speaker 1: or she could have said I don't agree, but in

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Speaker 1: that jurisdiction, apparently the prosecution either didn't care, agreed with

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Speaker 1: the request, or didn't have the stand. Need to stop it?

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Speaker 1: Can I just enjoy the moment when I actually get

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Speaker 1: to tell a doctor something that they don't already know,

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Speaker 1: which is never ever, Doctor elphin Vine, He's actually right.

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Speaker 1: The Constitution is written to protect the defendants, so in

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Speaker 1: some jurisdictions, the defendant could have the right to demand

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Speaker 1: a bench trial just as they can demand a jury trial.

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Speaker 1: Lucky for me, I would always throw a g gi

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Speaker 1: enormous fit in the courtroom if anybody wanted a bench trial. Now,

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Speaker 1: once in a while, I think there were two occasions

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Speaker 1: I went along with it. And I'll tell you why

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Speaker 1: I don't like bench trials. You know, actually this case,

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Speaker 1: doctor Elphinbine, you got a tiger by the tail. You

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Speaker 1: can't hold on and you can't let go. And what

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Speaker 1: I mean by that is, if you throw a fit

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Speaker 1: and don't want a bench trial, then the judge thinks it,

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Speaker 1: takes it personally. The judge takes it personally that you

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Speaker 1: don't want them to hear their case. But then if

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Speaker 1: you go along with it and agree to the bench trial.

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Speaker 1: Then you have some a doubles that's a technical legal term,

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Speaker 1: like judge Robert Adrian hear your case and totally destroy it.

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Speaker 1: So you're in a quandary. Do you placate the judge

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Speaker 1: and go along with the bench trial thinking you got

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Speaker 1: a great case and what idiot could come up with

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Speaker 1: a not guilty? Or do you throw a fit and

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Speaker 1: go with a jury trial and have the judge rule

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Speaker 1: against you every time you have emotion? So it's a

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Speaker 1: legal quandary. Well, oh, doctor Elphinbine, rape kid, I hope

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Speaker 1: you aren't just avoiding the question of what a rape.

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Speaker 1: I always kicked it off with pubic combing, which nobody

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Speaker 1: wants those two words and the sentence together. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: you be my guest, doctor Elphin blind. What happens kempus?

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Speaker 1: I'm laughing at this topic. I'm sorry it's very inappropriate,

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Speaker 1: but this is an interesting conversation. So, um, what happens

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Speaker 1: when a patient comes in with an alleged assault, be

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Speaker 1: a sexual or otherwise. The first person that sees the patient,

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Speaker 1: obviously is the triage nurse and they just take the

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Speaker 1: story from the patient. They do their vital signs and

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Speaker 1: then they put them into a room and then the

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Speaker 1: er physician will come in and assess the patient. And

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Speaker 1: if the er physician believes that there's any question of

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Speaker 1: in this case, sexual assault, um, you know, basically my

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Speaker 1: job would be to look at the patient as a whole,

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Speaker 1: talk to the patient, but I don't do an actual

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Speaker 1: rape exam on the patient. I call what's called the

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Speaker 1: forensic nurse. Believe, every jurisdiction in the country, at least

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Speaker 1: that I'm aware of, as far as the emergency rooms

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Speaker 1: have these available, and the forensic nurse is somebody who

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Speaker 1: who comes in after I've assessed the person, me being

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Speaker 1: the er doctor. After I've done my assessment and determine

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Speaker 1: that there's no life threatening problem and the patient is

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Speaker 1: medically stable. At that point, the forensic nurse comes in

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Speaker 1: and they do their assessment. Now what that involves things

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Speaker 1: like they do a full palblic exam, so obviously they

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Speaker 1: insert a They do it as saily as possible because

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Speaker 1: they want to maintain the chain of custody and they

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Speaker 1: want to be able to obtain any evidence. And generally

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Speaker 1: the police will be involved at this point as well.

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Speaker 1: If it's an alleged sexual assault. So the police have

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Speaker 1: also seen the patient, taken their story, taken pictures of

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Speaker 1: the patient, and then they're involved with the forensic nurse.

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Speaker 1: They work together to identify if there's a vaginal laceration

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Speaker 1: or vaginal tear, there's bleeding, there's traumas in the area,

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Speaker 1: or erectile doesn't have to be vaginal, the police, will

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Speaker 1: you get involved, take pictures that sort of thing. The

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Speaker 1: forensic nurse at this point is gathering evidence, they are

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Speaker 1: obtaining any team and if there is any again taking pictures,

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Speaker 1: and then they write this whole thing up as their

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00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: assessment based on what their experience tells them. And then

428
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: we all get together and huddle up my Dolph, the

429
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: forensic nurse, and the police, and we discuss the case,

430
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: not so much from my perspective as you know, the

431
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: potential for rape, because that's not really why I'm there.

432
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm not a judge, I'm not a jury nor my

433
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: an attorney. So I'm there to make sure the patient

434
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: is getting what she needs to or she needs to get,

435
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: and that they're taking care of and that all their

436
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: medical issues are being taken care of. We will discuss

437
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: things like post exposure prophylaxis for things like HIV and

438
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: hepatitis and things like that. So we decide whether or

439
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: not we want to give the patient medication based on

440
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: their story and based on what the nurse has found

441
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: to keep them from catching any any potential sexually transmitted

442
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: diseases UM. And at that point, the forensic nurse seals

443
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: the evidence that they have. They have a special way

444
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: to do all this and I'm sure you're more familiar

445
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 1: with it than I am, regarding chain of custody, and

446
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: then that is handed over to the police and the

447
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: police take it from there, and then the nurse writes

448
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: her his or her assessment and then that becomes part

449
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: of the chart and part of the evidence. Dodger elphin Vine,

450
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: you left out the pubic combing. I'm sorry, so you

451
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: can laugh all you want. Have you ever had one done? No? No,

452
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: So they do. They do look at the pubic hair

453
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: and they go through that as well to make sure

454
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: that there's nothing with a fine tooth comb. Yeah. Time

455
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. So my question do you share

456
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: on McCollum, Who in the hay would sign up for

457
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: that exactly? And vaginal exam and then maybe having photos

458
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: taken of your vaginal and anal area. Who would do

459
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: that unless it was someone insistent that they had been raped. Nancy,

460
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: Let's break this down. This weak, pitiful predator selected an

461
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: easy target. We call them a soft target. This sixteen

462
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: year old victim was drunk, unconscious, and a sleep She

463
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: is the perfect victim for a rapist, and he was

464
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: counting on the fact that she would be too embarrassed

465
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: and maybe have a foggy memory and she would not

466
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: report it. He picked the wrong victim. Well put. Speaking

467
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: of the victim, let's hear cuts and typically we would

468
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: high the victim's face and name, but she has broken

469
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: her silence after she ran out of the courtroom in tears,

470
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: feeling as if she were going to vomit, when the judge,

471
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: all on his own, reversed his own guilty of art

472
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: and let her rapists walk free. Take a listen to

473
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: our cuts eleven and twelve together. This is Cameron Vaughan

474
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: speaking to WGEM. I immediately had to leave the courtroom

475
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: and go to the bathroom. I was crying. I think

476
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: every other girl should know that this is a normal

477
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: thing and they need to come out with what happens

478
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: to them and not just let the guy get away.

479
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: Does it bring back the memory? As I mentioned earlier

480
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: a brock Turner, take a listen to our cut thirteen

481
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: our Friends at NBC. A jury found a Stanford University

482
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: swimming star guilty of three felony sexual assault crimes. He

483
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: could have served more than a decade in prison. Instead,

484
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: he got three years probation and will serve three months

485
00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: in county jail. I think that this sentence is inappropriate.

486
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: Stanford law professor Michelle Dauber is outraged by Judge Aaron

487
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: Persky's sentence and is leading an effort to get him

488
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: off the bench. Getting good grades or swimming fast, or

489
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: being good at lacrosse is a basis for giving you

490
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: an exception from the California state minimum penalties, then basically

491
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: what you're saying is it's open season on college women.

492
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: The judge cited the defendant's age and lack of criminal

493
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: record at the sentencing. The victim, who admits she was

494
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: drunk the night of the assault, wrote a thirteen page

495
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: letter to the judge urging prison time and an apology.

496
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: I was found unconscious, bra pulled out of my dress,

497
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: but naked all the way down to my boots, legs

498
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: spread apart and had been penetrated by a foreign object.

499
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: She was right. Rock Turner was a swimming star and

500
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: the judge in the case had been affiliated with Stanford Swimming.

501
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: So what toll has this incident taken on the rape them?

502
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three Blake Salmon, a

503
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: wge n Her dad, Scott says the fallout has been swift.

504
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: My family is destroyed because of this, He says. Cameron

505
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: used to be an honorable student at Quincy High School

506
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: who ran cross country and track and field. Now she's

507
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: lucky to carry a CEA average and she's dropped out

508
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: of all sports. All of her learning is at home

509
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: now she can't go to school. But Cameron says what

510
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: happened to her shouldn't stop other victims from seeking justice.

511
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: I think every other girl should know that this is

512
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: a normal thing and they need to come out with

513
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: what happens to them and not just let the guy

514
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: get away. How Scott Vaughan says his family could file

515
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: a civil case, but they're not planning on doing so.

516
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: To make a dister House joining US Executive director Quincy

517
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: Area Network against Domestic Abuse. What has this judge is ruling,

518
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: Judge Robert Adrian's ruling done to victims all across the country.

519
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: But you know, I have been getting messages and emails

520
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: from people not just across the country, but internationally. I

521
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: woke up to an email today from someone in Sweden,

522
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: and what I keep hearing is how deeply deeply disturbed

523
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: people are by this story, usually followed by a paragraph

524
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: in which they disclose and a thought that has happened

525
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: to them previously in their lifetime, that in most of

526
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: these cases they were unable to report. So you have

527
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of people out there with you know, unhealed,

528
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: unaddressed traumas being triggered right now, and you know they're

529
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: angry and they're hurting. Take a listen to Cameron herself

530
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: speaking our Cuts nine In ten, I woke up at

531
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: my friend's house with a pillow over my face so

532
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: I couldn't be heard, and drew Clinton inside of me.

533
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: It made me seem like I thought for nothing and

534
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: that I left, like put my word out there for

535
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: no reason. Her word is probably more far reaching now

536
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: than it would have been had they defendant done his

537
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: jail time. Back to Matt Hopp's Special Guests, joining us

538
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: the exact editor with the Herald Wig there in Quincy, Illinois.

539
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: Matt tell me what has to fall out, Ben as

540
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: it relates to Judge Robert Adrian. I understand that following

541
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: his reversal of his own guilty verdict on the defendant

542
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: Drew Clinton, he then threw the prosecutor out of court.

543
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: On another case, the prosecutor came into court on a

544
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: car crash I believe that killed four people following the

545
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: rape case, and the judge said, get out. My wife

546
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: showed me online where you liked a post that attacked me.

547
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: I can't be fair to you. Get out. Well, who

548
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: is this judge? Yes? So on Wednesday, on Wednesday this week,

549
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: after the story had come out, there was a status

550
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: hearing in another case and he ordered a prosecutor who

551
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: wasn't even involved with this case we're talking about. He

552
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: was sitting at the prosecutor table, was another local prosecutor,

553
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: and the judge said you can leave my courtroom. And

554
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: you kind of looked at him and he goes, you're excused,

555
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: and he said, judge, And he said, my wife saw

556
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: that you liked something on Facebook that attacked me. I

557
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: can't be fair with you. Get out, hey, can I

558
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: just thought jump in and ad that that the thing

559
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: that was liked on Facebook was apparently the statement from

560
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: my organization, Quincey Area Network against him. I stinking us.

561
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: So was he going to throw every every prosecutor out

562
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: because they're all from the same jurisdiction and that And

563
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: that was kind of the surprising part is because the

564
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: you know, prosecutor of course, are going to be very uh,

565
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, supportive of victim's rights. And so I don't

566
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: think there was there's a prosecutor at the Adams County

567
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: Courthouse who wouldn't have liked that if if they thought

568
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: or if they had Facebook. How if I understand the judge,

569
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: Judge Robert Adrian has been reassigned. What does that mean?

570
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: It basically means he will not be hearing criminal cases.

571
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: He typically had He had a criminal docut two days

572
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: a week at the end. It's kind of courthouse and

573
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: he has been reassigned to civil matters, small claims, probate, etc.

574
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: Is he elected or appointed? Um? Is he was first

575
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: elected in two thousan ten And in Illinois you are

576
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: they put up a retention after every six years. You

577
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: mean they get to re elect them every six years. Basically,

578
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: it's like a yes or no question, would you allow?

579
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: You know, would you like to retain this judge? So

580
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: can another person run against him? Oh no, it's just

581
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: a yes or it's just a yes or no question.

582
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem right. Okay, let's hear what everybody has

583
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: to say, Uh, Dodger ron Elphinbine, in your experience with

584
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: rape victims, what effect you see them on the front lines?

585
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: What does this mean to them after all they go

586
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: through to prosecute their case. Yeah, it's it's it's it's

587
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: just heartbreaking and completely devastating obviously to them and to

588
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: everybody around them. As you heard you know you read

589
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: that or you heard the piece of the father was

590
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: talking about their families devastated. I mean, it's it's horrible.

591
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: And this woman had the courage to come forward and

592
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: to say something, and then to have the judge rule

593
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: one way and then, for whatever reason, just decide because

594
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: he thinks he's a god somehow, that he can just

595
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: overturn his own ruling is just mind boggling, and it's

596
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,479
Speaker 1: completely devastating to this poor lady and her family. And

597
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: these people are just completely traumatized when they show up

598
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: to see me in the emergency room. It's it's horrific.

599
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: And you know another thing about that, And I guess

600
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: I'll go to doctor Angela Arnold following on what doctor

601
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: elphin Vine said. It's when you have become a violent

602
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: crime victim. And I know from myself, you're not the

603
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: same people that knew me before my fiance's murder say

604
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: I had a completely different personality. I don't remember that that,

605
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: but apparently it's true because everyone says it. You're never

606
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: the same again, doctor Arnold, Oh, I know, Nancy. I

607
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: also want to point out, and this is agreed. To

608
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: point this out, Nancy, there are two studies that have

609
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: found that blaming sexual harassment victims is linked to empathy

610
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: for the male perpetrators. So that means men in particular

611
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: are more likely to feel for the male harassers and

612
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: blame the victim. So I imagine it's time to start

613
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: going after some of these judges. Okay, Daryl Coleh And

614
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: there you go. Now I understand why you're taking the

615
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: defendant side. Oh, Nancy, that could not be anymore incorrect

616
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: if your life depended on it, and fortunately it doesn't,

617
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: because I love you in spite of disagree with you. Look,

618
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: we have to take tell me something, and let's not generalize.

619
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: Let's be specific. If this judge thought about it and

620
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: saw the evidence, heard the evidence, and saw the body

621
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: language and saw the facial expressions, then this judge had

622
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: a reason for changing his verdict. And if he did,

623
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: it's probably what he thought was right. I'm so glad

624
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: you said that, because you're right, this judge did see

625
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: facial expressions, demeanor, behavior, body language, her testimony, and he

626
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: found the defendant guilty. Okay, Then upon reflection, I wonder

627
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: what was involved in his reflection he reversed, as many

628
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: people would say, his own self, Megan Dister House William, Yeah,

629
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the court transcript. He was very

630
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: clear that the reason that he reversed the decision was

631
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: not because he reconsidered some piece of evidence. It was

632
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: clearly because he figured out that there was a minimum

633
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: sentence a fiction for criminal sexual assault. Making you know,

634
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: typically the state cannot appeal a decision like that, but

635
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: changing a verdict because a sentencing could be a constant

636
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: atituational error because the judge is to separate the evidence

637
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: fact finding guilt or innocence from sentencing. Okay, Cheryl McCollum.

638
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Final thought, if Drew Clinton had used a knife instead

639
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: of a penis, people would understand the gravity of this crime.

640
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: The weapon he chose just happened to be a penis.

641
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: Second thing, because of the bravery of Cammy, I believe

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00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: more victims very likely may come forward for this perpetrator,

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00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: Matt Hoff. Executive editor, Harold Wig Quincy, Illinois. Is there

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00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: any talk of throwing the judge off the bench or

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00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: somehow appealing this. I haven't heard any talk about trying

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00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: to appeal his ruling. My understanding is there's been talk

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00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: about that would invoke double jeopardy issues, and I've heard

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00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: there's been up a petition online to asking him to resign. Yeah, yeah,

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00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: there is a petition online. You're right, Matt Hoff, And

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00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm just throwing it out there, and this is something

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00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: for all of you legal eagles to think about. Matt

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00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: Hoff is absolutely correct. He can never be retried for

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00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: this case. Under double jeopardy. You have one swing at

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00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: the ball on felony trials, but the judge's reversal. I

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00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: would consider an appeal on the fact based on what

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00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: Megadister House is telling us. You don't reverse a fact

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00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: finding decisions such as a guilty verdict based on the sentence.

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00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: Those are two very distinct legal issues, and if the

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00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: judge used the sentence as a reason for reversal, this

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00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: could be grounds to reverse the judge's reversal. We wait

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00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye Friend,