WEBVTT - Nepotism: When Hiring the Best Just Won't Do 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.560 Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.000 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.680 and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Rowland over there, 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:23.680 and that's the McDonald triad. Stuff you should know, McDonald triad. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:29.200 What's that? Really? I'm just wow, you are spacey today. 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.440 We literally talked about it ten minutes ago. Oh that yeah, sorry, 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.559 you know bed wedding, fire starting harmony add I was 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.720 thinking of I call fire starting McDonald I call bed wedding, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.440 all right, Jerry's animal harmor um. Well, we know that's 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.080 not true. I was the first thing I thought it 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.839 was a McDonald's because I am totally spacey today. And 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.199 plus you could probably use the McDonald's right now, I'll 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.200 bet no. Well, I already ate, but if I hadn't 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.960 have eaten ramen, I could have totally partied on a 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.200 on a quarter pounder. Quarter pounder, definitely not a big Mac, right, 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.800 I don't do big Max. It's the sauce. It's a 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.600 weirdo sauce. Yeah, I just I don't. I don't do it. 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.000 And you know you don't need another third piece of bread. No, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.480 it is a great standard of measure, though, isn't it. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.560 What do you mean big max? You know this is 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.600 ex big max of calories or something. It's a unit 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.640 of measure here in America. I don't think I've ever 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.560 had a big Mac in my life. I've had like 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.080 maybe one, maybe two. Yeah, I've pretty much learned my 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.600 lesson the first time. I'm a quarter pounder guy. I 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.280 like quarter pounders. But really there's nothing better than just 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.200 their plain old double cheeseburger. Oh, just their a little smashburger, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.480 but the double cheeseburger. And there's a difference. They have 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.360 a double cheeseburger and a Mick double. Did you know that? 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.880 From what I can discern, what I can discern, the 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:51.000 only difference is the double cheeseburger has two slices of cheese. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.160 The Mick double has one. Everything else is the same. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.040 Where's the one piece of cheese? Why would you even 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.800 sell it like that? It's weird. It doesn't make any sense. 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.560 You could say, mcdoubell with just one slice of cheese. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.480 That makes stupid, is what they should say. Like, Yeah, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.920 pull forward and hang your head in shame, and we'll 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.480 give you your stupid sandwich. I'm gonna go to McDonald's 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.600 in order a McDLT remember those, Oh yeah, the hot 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:18.440 side right, yeah, and you could like fold the little 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.440 styrofi containing, which I mean it kind of makes sense 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.919 because even though I don't do the big garden on 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.280 the burger anyway, part of the reason I don't is 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.200 because I don't like hot, soggy lettuce. So the mcdealt 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.600 would solve that. It would, But it was really just 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.480 like here's even more styro poem. Yeah, and like, yes, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.040 it was terrible for the earth, but that was like 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.040 the look of my youth, you know what I'm Yeah, well, no, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:46.560 the styrofoam contain everything came in everything, Like their cinnamon 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.560 roll used to come in a styrofoam container, for God's sake. Yeah, 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:50.880 you'd be like, can I have a pack of salt 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.799 and they put it in a styron container. Yeah, all right. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.359 That was got some big McDonald's dollars coming our way. Now. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.080 So I want to paint a picture for you, Chuck. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.400 Let's say you owned a McDonald's franchise here in town, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.600 and uh, you decided that you wanted your your daughter 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:17.200 to take over the business. Sure, if you just said, okay, 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.799 I'm ready to retire. It's your turn. Now, come on in. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.200 We'll see you later. Good luck. You would not be 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.000 doing what's known as nepotism, right, you'd be doing it wrong. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.080 There's a right way to do it in a wrong 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.120 way to do it. Yeah, but either way, what you're 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:39.280 engaged in is nepotism. Yeah, they say, wait, I've really 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:44.520 pulled that one out of your butt. Yeah. Um, I 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.400 didn't know if you meant pulled it off or pulled 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.520 it out of your butt. I meant pulled it off. 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.680 You did very well. Nice transition with the Nipotis that's 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.320 all I was looking for? Uh? Yeah, they do say. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.200 I mean, some experts will say, if you do have 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.320 a family business and you want to have been actually 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.680 hand that over your kids, if if you really want 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.920 to do that the right way, have them work outside 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.360 the or in that industry, maybe for another company for 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:12.280 a while, gaining some experience outside your own company, because 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.320 it can be very problematic to the other employees when 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:19.920 that happens, because even if they're qualified, there's a bit 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.320 of a target sometimes on their back. There's Yeah, it's 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.720 unfair to them, it's unfair to the other employees. It 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.280 says a lot about you too. It sends signals, whether 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.640 you mean it or not. It sends signals that you're 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.480 insecure in your leadership and you need to surround yourself 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.800 with people who you know will generally agree with you, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.800 and even if they don't agree with you, you are 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.640 bringing them in in a position where they really owe 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.520 you a favor. There's a lot of opportunity for people 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.839 to be like, this person is not even qualified for 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.880 this position. I'm more qualified. I'm just not their son 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.799 or daughter. This is b s. And then it also 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.920 has a real chilling effect on morale around the company too, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.400 where it's like, no matter what I do or how 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.039 good I am, um, I'm never going to get ahead 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.039 because this this employer, this boss is into nepotism and 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.520 I'm not related to him, so I might as well 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.480 just quit or go somewhere else or milk the clock. Yeah, 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.120 I mean this. This can go take so many forms, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.960 like it is a time honored tradition to start a 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.640 small family business to pass along to your children, Like 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.640 there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But then there's also 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.600 the scenario where you know mom and dad start a 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:32.480 business and the sons of gambling and and living up, 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.920 tripping the lights, fantastic, painting the town brown. Yeah, basically 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:41.120 acting like Oscar Wilde or something. Yeah. Uh, and then 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.600 it's just handed the keys to the kingdom and they 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.360 run it into the ground. But that that happens. Yeah, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.400 there's a saying. The first generation starts the business, the 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.400 second generation carries on the business, the third generation ruins 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.840 the business. We grow the seed beasts nature, No, we 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.200 plant the seed. Nature grows the seed. She sowed the seed. 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.680 What did you just make that up? I think that 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.279 was It sounds like a hippie T shirt the Young 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.040 Ones with like Coco pellion it or something. If I 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.040 would have done it in my Young Ones accent, you 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.599 probably would have. Did you watch that The Young Yeah, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.279 the British TV show that. How is that on The 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.279 Young Ones? Uh? What that's saying? Was it like a 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.360 recurring thing or no? I think it was just in 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.440 one episode. It just stands out to me, Well, I 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.680 guess I love the Young Ones. I haven't seen that 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:30.800 in a while. I'm sure they're like eight people that 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.920 heard that were like, oh my god, Young Ones. So 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.600 there is a there is a right way to do nepotism. 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:42.839 But for the most part, especially in America, especially in 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:50.920 modern Western society, nepotism is largely frowned upon by the 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:56.960 general population. But like you said, it's it's time honored, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.600 it's age old. And there's this great article that we're 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.320 working from um by the Grabst who basically says, like 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.720 you can make the case that nepotism is what civilization 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.880 was originally built on. That that's that really what you're seeing. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:19.000 This disregard or this dislike or disdain for nepotism is 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:23.400 actually a tension between a meritocracy and nepotism, which are 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:31.200 essentially to opposite socio political sides of the same coin. Okay, Yeah, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.280 and it's interesting too. I had no idea that in 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.520 the animal uh, in in biology and the Animal Kingdom, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.760 that they actually refer to animal behaviors as like things 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.200 like natural selection is nepotism. Yeah, like kin selection, where 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.800 you will go out of the great podcast that we did, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:48.600 I could remember if we actually did it or not. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.680 We did huh, we did it, we did it. But 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:57.040 they will talk about in the Animal Kingdom things like, um, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.560 like a squirrel is more likely let's to give a 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.720 warning call like a cock or a whatever a squirrel does. 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.440 That was a squirrel, okay, Um, to give a warning 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.800 call of a of a predator approaching if they're near 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.000 family members, and if there are no family members around, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:19.080 they're kind of like, what else, good luck, which proves 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.960 your point that squirrels are jerks seeing hell Todd and 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.480 they only can they only think about their own family wise. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.080 But that is what if you're a wildlife biologist, you 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:35.720 would call that nepotism. Yeah, okay, so there is a this, 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:41.719 there's actually an equation for it. Yeah, take it away, Okay, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.600 because I looked at that you're talking about the Hamilton's rule. Yes, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.880 but I got you know, my eyes kind of glazed over. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.880 It's tough. Hopefully we won't go down a false positives 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.200 rabbit hole, yeah, like we did in that episode. But 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.800 there's this guy, Mr Hamilton's. Dr Hamilton's to us, there's 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.360 a million things he hasn't done, and uh, what his 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.600 name was, William D. Hamiltons. This is from the sixties. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.280 This struck me as it would like it would have 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.040 been old. But whatever, he's a technocratic biologist and he 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:15.160 basically said there there is a formula for calculating why 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.760 an animal would do something that seems altruistic, and it 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:23.040 has to do with nepotism or kin selection. And this 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.320 equation is our times B is greater than C done. 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.880 Okay to stop there. Did we talk about this and 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.160 kin selection? We had to it, but I don't think so, man, 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.160 it does not. I think we talked about it without 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.680 ever saying the name of it, and the formula itself 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.840 danced around it. Basically, So just real quick, are is 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:49.000 the genetic related nous of the the person doing the 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:53.880 altruistic act and the person benefiting B is the benefit 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.920 of it? And then that has to be so multiply 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.360 those two things, and that would be has to be 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.160 greater than see which is the cost. So the little 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.199 worker bees and the worker ants that know, hey, I'm 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.920 never gonna rise to the top here, but I'm gonna 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.840 bust my butt for the queen because everyone else will 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.199 benefit from it. So that so for each worker be 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.040 the cost to be one. They're one, they're going to die, 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.160 they're not going to be able to reproduce and pass 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.400 on jeans. But they're related to the queens, say by 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.520 sharing fifty of their genes, and the queen is going 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.040 to go on and make ten thousand new bees. So 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.640 you've got ten thousand times point five is the left 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.640 hand of the equation, and that is way way greater 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.960 than cost, which is one. So therefore Hamilton's rule would 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.120 apply in that circumstance. It seems dumb to me. I 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.839 think that there's way more going on in life than that. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.040 I don't think you can boil animal behavior down to 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.520 a formula, especially such a simple formula. I mean, sigma 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.560 doesn't even appear in this formula. It's that simple. We 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.679 can read this formula. It's that simple. Yeah, I almost 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.319 got it. It's that simple. So I think it's reductive. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.000 I think, is what I'm trying to say, which is 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.400 alert a word I just picked up recently. You've been 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.240 thrown it around a lot. I've heard it before, but 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.720 it's really kind of made sense to me lately. So 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.000 I think that it's a reductive formula, and I uh 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.200 dismay the the use of it. All right. Uh, This 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.559 I found super interesting is the origins of the word itself. 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.959 Sometimes word origins are kind of cool, like this, Well, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:31.959 you're big time into it. Aren't you. Yeah, when it 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.040 you know, sometimes it'll lit'll light my fire, you know 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.559 what I'm saying, Like the McDonald triad, but it has 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.720 the Latin root nepos an ep o s which means nephew. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.920 And this came about because of Catholic priests, who, as 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.640 everyone knows, aren't supposed to make sex, so they don't 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.120 not always, okay, sometimes they do, and sometimes they have children, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:03.600 and in order to promote their uns h without without 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.720 having to say yeah, like my son exactly, they would 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.240 call them their nephew. And that's where it actually, that's 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.560 where the root nepos means nephew. That's where it comes from. Yeah. 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.440 I saw somewhere, I think in Adam So you know 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.959 Saul Bellows, the writer, Yeah, yeah, his son Adam wrote 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.760 very very long article in the Atlantic in the early 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.720 two thousand's arguing in favor of nepotism, I think unsuccessfully, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:32.760 but I think he said one of the remaining definitions 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:38.160 of nephew is an illegitimate son of a Catholic priest. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.520 Oh really still today weird? Yeah. And then the three 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.800 types that that the grabster I like to liken it 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.240 to the core Leone family, um, self determined, coercive and opportunistic. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.680 So self determined being when you take a family job 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.520 a family member offers because it aligns with your own 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.200 career goals, which would be funny, that's a that's pretty ideal, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.240 sunny Corleon, Oh, I got you. I thought you met Sonny. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:10.880 Like coercive nepotism is when you take a job because 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.280 you feel forced into it, which is clearly Michael, Michael. Uh. 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.800 And then opportunistic, which is I don't feel pressured and 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.280 I just take take the job because it's the easiest path, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.640 which is Fredo through and through. That really works, it 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.880 really does nice job. Interesting, I mean it stood out 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.240 to me like uh, sore thumb. Sure it did not 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.400 stick out like a sore thumb to me. That's really something. Yeah, 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.680 okay about that. You want to take a break, Yeah, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.600 and I might just leave drop your mind, all right, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:14:06.680 see you? M h okay, everybody, I talk Chuck into 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.199 staying for the rest of the episode during the ad break, 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:16.240 I'm here. So um, you've got the definition of nepotism 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.280 in the biological sense. There's also the sociological sense we 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.000 kind of touched on in um in the workplace. But 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.400 we still have even said what nepotism is, just like 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:32.920 we do, okay, Well, so nepotism is basically doling out favors, 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.560 typically jobs, by a person in a position of power 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.920 to people who are their relatives. There's another very very 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:45.240 closely related um thing called crony ism, which is doing 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.560 the same thing but handing it out to people who 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:51.560 are friends or friends of friends and building a network. 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.600 And whether it's a business or a political institution or whatever, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:59.760 where there are favors done, reciprocal favors owed, and you 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.840 had this very dense web that overlays that company or 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.200 that overlays that institution. It makes it very tough for 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:12.160 outsiders to get into, which is why a nepotism. Nepotism 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:16.200 is the opposite of a meritocracy. A meritocracy is you 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.880 are good at this job, this job is open, we 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.040 want you to come fill it. Instead with nepotism, you 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.520 say we've got this position open. Um, let's get my 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.040 nephew meaning my illegitimate son in here, because I want 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.360 him to prosper in life in this position will enrich him. Yeah, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.240 it's a really tricky thing because you know, you want 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.960 to do friends and family favors. Uh, but it's a 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.280 slippery slope if they're not qualified. Even if they are, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.600 it's you know, has it's just has an ugly connotation 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.880 to it. But myself, I would be like, Yeah, I 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.800 want to want to hook up my friends and family 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.320 right and I want to be hooked up right. So 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.400 you kind of you kind of hit it. And it 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.200 seems to me from everybody, And I don't necessarily agree 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.440 with this, but it seems like everybody says it's not 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.440 going anywhere. The best you can hope for is a 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.760 healthy mix, And I guess it seems like a healthy 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.960 mix is the best way to do it, because you 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.160 don't want a pure meritocracy, because what you end up 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:24.920 with is an institution that has all brains and no heart, 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.920 Whereas if you have the opposite side, the other side 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.520 of the spectrum, pure nepotism, you have lots of heart 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.840 but no brains. So you want a mixture of the two. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.560 And in one of the places where nepotism has traditionally 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.200 been frowned upon here in the US is in government, 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.000 Like we basically say, you go do whatever you want 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.040 in your own business, run it however you like. Even 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.840 a publicly traded company that started as a family company 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.040 will sometimes still have a family member running the show. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.840 But with government, we we say no, nobody can do 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.080 anything nepotistic in government. We've said it from the outset, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.600 and we've also broken that rule from the outside too. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:14.120 It's a long standing American tradition to include nepotism and government. Yeah, 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.360 whether or not you're John F. Kennedy and you say, well, 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.840 I'm gonna make Bobby my attorney general even though he 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:26.360 has no law experience, or if you're the current would 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.919 you say that was a great Ted Kennedy but not 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.560 John F. Kennedy, Or if you know the current president 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.760 giving his his daughter and son in law positions on 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.840 his White House staff, which I thought this was interesting 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:45.520 them the law um as far as doing that. After 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.919 John F. Kennedy appointed his brother as U S Attorney General, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.359 there was a law passed federal law saying you cannot 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.840 appoint a family member to an important position. But in 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.720 two thousand and seventeen, the d o J said a 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.440 president can a point a family member to their own 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:07.440 personal White House staff. But after FOIA documents UH were 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.520 released in two thousand seventeen Freedom of Information Act, we 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.240 learned that since the Nixon administration, you could not even 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.760 a point white House staff, and it's kind of was 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.480 in it was overruled. There was a reversal of this, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.119 and was it to allow Trump to do that? I 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.080 think it was just a reversal of the pattern, Not 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.960 like they said, Okay, we'll reverse our ruling. There was 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.280 just a history of of the d O J ruling 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.359 against nepotism in White House staff. No, it says the 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.680 January two seventeen ruling was a reversal, Right, a reversal 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.040 of the pattern since Nixon, I think is what they're saying. Oh, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.280 it says reversal of the policy. So I thought they 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.359 literally changed the rule. So what I saw is that 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:58.359 the ruling against it is actually counter two the tradition 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:05.280 of the presidents picking his advisors without any input or 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.879 oversight from Congress. Like the government, the president's advisors are 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.040 supposed to be the president's own picks, and whether it's 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.199 family or not, t s that's the president's own picks. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.520 That apparently is the way that it's always been. But 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.800 then since Nixon, they started shooting down that idea. Right, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.119 And the reason we're talking about politics now is because 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.240 it's one of the clearer examples of um how it 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.320 can go wrong. Because the reason nepotism is so harmful 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.960 in politics is because the we're set up in a 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.600 way in this country, in such a way supposedly to 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.000 have a system of checks and balances to where no 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.119 one person is above the law. And obviously, if you 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.959 fill positions with family members, the rule of law and 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.680 the good of the country is has a very good 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.920 chance of coming in second place to protecting your family member. Yeah. 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.960 So one of the one of the explanations I saw 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.960 was that the reason nepotism is bad for democracy is 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.879 when you have people working in a democracy and the 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.720 actual government of the democracy, those people are supposed to 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.560 be defenders of that democracy and loyal to the democracy, 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.239 not loyal to the person in power. Nepotism inverts that 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.040 to where the people who are running the show are 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.800 loyal to the person in power, not the institution. So 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.440 what you're seeing again, right, there is a tension between 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.800 the meritocracy, where you have people who are loyal and 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.200 dedicated to the institution, and nepotism, where you have people 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.440 who are loyal and dedicated to the person empower who's 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.199 doling out the jobs. And the reason that's bad for 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.440 democracy is the people who owe their job to that 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:49.399 person in a very direct manner, UM may look the 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.080 other way on wrongdoing. They may also not be qualified 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.080 for the jobs, so they may not even be aware 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.080 that there's stuff that they're supposed to be loyal to 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.400 that they're not being loyal to. UM. Like in the tuition, 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.240 there's a lot of pitfalls and prat falls to nepotism 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:08.440 as a as a general rule of thumb in a presidency. Yeah, 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.720 and I know brought it up before, but it still 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.120 makes me laugh every time I think of Jared Kushner 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.440 taking his first tour of the White House after the election, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.280 when he was meeting all the people and he said, 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:22.960 everyone's so nice. You know how many of these people 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:27.960 are staying on They're like nobody they worked for President Obama. 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.119 That's not how this works. And oh is he is 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.040 he like a Democrat? Or was he a Democrat? Originally? 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.000 I don't know. I saw it back in like an 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.040 article from two thousand, fifteen or sixteen, and he said, um, 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.240 he was asked if he would be voting for Hillary 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.560 or for Trump, and he said family first, and they said, well, 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.959 there's pretty good reason why why he was given this 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.800 position of power. He's very loyal to family. Apparently when 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.480 his dad was in jail for tax fraud, he went 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:02.040 visited him every week. And if you are, if you 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:07.600 are a candidate for nepotism, you uh, like loyalty to 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:12.600 family is basically that's your qualification. If you're running a 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:19.560 massive three hundred and fifty million population democracy, what you 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.160 want are people who are qualified to do the position 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.679 that they're in. Loyalty to family has nothing to do 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:27.760 with that kind of thing. And that's why some people 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.200 say you need nepotises. And because loyalty to family is 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.520 still important, you don't take another break. I think we 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:58.600 should m hm. So Chuck I said before the break 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.919 that like family, loyalty to family, that's the heart of 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.919 nepotism or the basis of nepotism, right, um, and family 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:10.639 is very much associated with nepotism. And the family is 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.920 if you look at the world and humanity from a 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:18.920 sociological perspective, that is the smallest unit of community. Yes, 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.080 there's the individual, but the individual doesn't represent a community. 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.760 A family represents a community. And so basically, throughout history, 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.440 throughout time all over the world, the family has been 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:33.800 the basic unit of society. And then it just kind 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.840 of builds from there, Right, Yeah, you got your family, 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.840 and then many families forms your tribe. Your tribe forms 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:47.399 your community, and then outward until you have you know, cities, counties, states, nations, right, 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.480 and it just gets more sophisticated from there. But you 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:52.520 can reduce all of it, which is very reductive, back 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.880 to the family, the basic unit. And I think that's 0:23:55.880 --> 0:24:00.800 one reason why cults are so unpower suitable for so 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.640 many people who are in cult because one of the 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.000 main characteristics of cults is that they break apart families. 0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:10.119 The family unit does not exist in the cult. The 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.320 cult itself is one big family, so that these natural 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:17.879 family units have been broken into their constituent pieces and 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:20.800 reformed into part of this larger hole, which I think 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.680 strikes some people is highly unnatural and like a really 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:28.000 visceral way. Are you watching or have you watched World 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.400 Country yet? Is it good? God? Is it good? It's bananas? 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:36.119