WEBVTT - V For Vendetta (Part 1) 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:07.720 Hi, Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. I'm Danish Forwards, 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.520 joined as always by Melissa Hunter, Jennifer Wright, Tan Tran 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:14.280 and Karamadanqua. And this week we are a little bit 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:18.040 late for the fifth of November, but unfortunately right in 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.840 time for the impending threat of totalitarianism. And we are 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.479 talking V four Vendetta, the graphic novel written by Alan Moore, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:33.520 illustrated by David Lloyd. Uh yeah, it's sort of rolled 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:38.320 off the tongue. It's the book. The graphic novel is 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.320 divided into three parts, so we're gonna do each episode 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:45.600 part by part. So today we're just talking book one, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.279 which is like subheaded Europe after the Rain, before we 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.480 dive in, I'm just clear ari e I g oh yeah, 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:07.440 Ray like the rain on me, like gay. So before 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.000 we start, I'm curious because V for Vendetta has had 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.640 such like a big part, like a big footprint in 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.000 popular culture where even if you haven't like read it 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.080 or seen it, you know, like the guy Fox mask 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.200 has become like the anonymous symbol. So, Jennifer, what has 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.560 been your relationship with V for Vendetta before this this podcast? 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.800 Book reading? Okay, well, I love V for Vendetta. But 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:35.520 what I find fascinating is periodically I get like really 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.160 hardcore Trump supporters who messaged me on Twitter, and I'm 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.640 shocked by the number of them that have the V 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:47.039 for Vendetta mask as their profile picture. Because if you 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.600 read V for Vendetta, I think the first thing that 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.200 happens is V beats up some corrupt cops who are 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.080 going to break a woman to um. So it's surprising 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.840 to me that a group of very far right people 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.760 have read this book and thought, yeah, this guy fighting 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.320 against a fascist government where the police are an unbelievably 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:16.399 corrupt force. Speaks to you to assume they read the book, 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.200 did they watch the movie, because like it's still basically 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.400 the same. I mean, those are the same people that 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.600 like misuse red pill in Blue Pill. Also the Punisher logo, 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.400 Oh yeah, they love punish our people with white trumps, 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.840 love punish, punish our decals, And you're like, what do 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.920 you think that's communicating? So yeah, I love this book 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.600 because I think it has Overfelming like good social and 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:45.720 moral values and is a dystopia about fascism in such 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.520 a such a wonderfully realized way, and boy, people on 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.440 the far right not picking up on that. It's also 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.040 very funny to me because Guy Fox was an extreme Catholic, 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.519 So that in end and of itself is like interesting 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.880 that he was like, yeah, Catholicism, I don't like your Protestantism. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.440 That people who now adopt the Guy Fox mask are 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:15.200 not like religious zealots. And again it's an unambiguously anarchist symbol. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.240 So now that Donald Trump is like the incumbent leader 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.800 and they're defending their like, oh, the anarchy in Portland, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.040 it's like, no, now you should specifically be in favor 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:32.200 of that quote unquote anarchy. Yeah, well no, it's just 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.960 I never thought about how even just in the past 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.400 several years, I mean, since Trump became elected in his 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:45.800 now a fucking loser, um, you know, them to enjoy 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.120 that together. I do have to say, wouldn't it suck 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.720 if we had to be like a politically neutral podcast 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:59.680 like obviously feeling let's say you excite stuff Because I 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:06.080 these this first book uh before the election, and it 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.920 made me feel really uncomfortable because it's I mean it's 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:17.800 so immediately uh reflective of the Trump era of like 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:23.680 make Britain great again is on page two and uh. 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.480 And then I reread it last night or the two 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.320 nights ago to like refresh my memory, and I just 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.280 felt like a different this is like right after Biden 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.840 has gotten elected. And I just was able to read 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.640 and be like, yes, that old thing, even though I 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.719 know not everything is over, but it made me just 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.880 feel so much better reading it post post election. You know, 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.520 I didn't want to bring up the political allegory too soon, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.599 but and not to get into the movie yet, but 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.359 now that we're sort of there, I think that I 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.200 always found interesting was that Ellen Moore famously hates all 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.919 adaptations of his work because he's like a crashy old wizard, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.560 like that's just who he is. But he let people 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:09.240 adapt it because he because he likes houses, but he 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.280 doesn't like them. He's like, you can do what you want, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.320 but I'm not gonna like it. I'm telling us fair 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.960 and um. And he also don't take that stance too 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:22.479 in my future works and then be like do you 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.920 like it? And I also think he doesn't take money. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.640 I'm pretty sure he says. He just says like I 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:35.080 don't want the money. I'm gonna check. I didn't mean 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.880 to No, No, he's a he's like a weird wizard 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.560 of the word. Does he know that he could give 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.440 it away too good causes instead of flooding movie studios 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.800 keep it? I mean, not that they're not in a 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.280 way a good cost, Like he could he could give 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.680 it to like housing projects and stuff. Yeah, like movies. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.080 I'm just saying movie studios are not the thing that 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.680 I would first think of when I hear a it, Cause, yeah, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.159 well you figure it out. I mean, I'm gonna look 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.480 up about whether he takes the money. But the point 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.200 is he hated the Viva Vendettatte movie, which we'll all 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.520 watch and talk about. But he thought that they made 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.359 it to American and he's like, this is about England. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.120 It's not a metaphor about him, because it was happening 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.360 during the Bush Era, and he thought that some like 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.720 American Bush era politics crept into the movie. And he 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.520 was like, Nope, it's about Britain and England specifically, and 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.800 like yeah, it's like and like he's like, and it's 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.080 about anarchy and specifically anarchy. And if it's not about 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.680 anarchy in Britain, it's not my book. But I do 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.440 think Melissa, your point is well made that this applies 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.600 to a lot of situations and a lot of totalitarian 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.640 governments in a way that maybe Alan Moore doesn't appreciate it, 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.839 but I think we can't. Yeah, it reminds me of 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.000 Bon June Hoo when he was talking about Paris Site 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:01.120 and how he wrote it specifically for Korean audience and 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.279 then it became so wildly popular, and he's like, I 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:09.000 guess we all live in the same same country of capitalism. Like, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.760 so he gets it. Yeah, I mean that's what's amazing 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.800 about Elmore's work like this and Watchman, that you know, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:22.200 it's so relevant unfortunately, you know, probably for decades and 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.000 decades to come in all countries that are kind of 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.160 resemble each other in certain ways. You know. Karama, what 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.760 was your v for Vendetta experience before the book Club? Well, 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.600 I hadn't read it before, but I had seen the 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.400 film many, many, many, many many times. One of my 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.840 really good friends, Jose shout out to Jose loves Natalie Portman. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.840 So we watched a lot of Natalie Portman movies together 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:50.120 and this is one of them, and this is the 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.720 one that I liked the most. So she can have 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.840 a fully pulled head and still just be the most 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:00.320 beautiful angel woman you have ever seen. She is fat 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.080 special though. I think there are a lot of people 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.520 who look good with bald heads, but not maybe a 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.000 lot of white people. That's true, that's true, and as 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.880 I'm allowed to say that, not a lot of Jewish people. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.640 It's very rare that jew looks very good bald. We 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:21.480 have weird egg shaped heads. Anyway, what was your experience 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.360 with me for Vandetta? You know, I had never seen 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.640 the films, and I only know you know that that 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.679 famous scene where she shaves her head and like um 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.920 and all the mask wearing. I remember I did sketch 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.360 comedy in Chicago at at a place called Second City, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.960 and when we heard of it, have you heard of it? 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.720 On one of those stages, we took over a show 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.640 and the show before us had an opening that was 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:56.120 very like themes of anarchy, themes of questioning authority, and 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.800 the opening was them wearing these guy fox masks and 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.640 and like right before the scene changes, you have to 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.520 like take them off and put them in a paper bag. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.600 So my experience with guy fox masks is trying to 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.840 dance in the dark with this and then like clumsy 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:13.960 lee fumbling like trying to like put it in the 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.520 bag before the lights come up, and you're like caught 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.679 as the audience sees you like trying to stuff in 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.480 a Guy Fox bag into a paper bag while the 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.439 scene is changing. So that is my experience with Guy 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:30.240 Fox masks and via fur Vendetta. That's a pretty thorough Yeah, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.480 what would you sort of I feel like before we 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.360 do dive into the actual text, it is worth exploring 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.679 that Guy Fox mask in popular culture. How would you 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.600 describe the place that the Guy Fox mask has in 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:49.040 popular culture? Anonymous? Yeah, but I but I feel like 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.960 we we had that good point with Trump where it's like, 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.199 but now it's sort of like the counter culture. It's 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.199 always like the counterculture thing that's like trolling but almost 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.880 just being a bad person on per us because I 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:06.920 feel like some people think anarchy is quoted by like 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.679 literally holding up the status quo in the most obnoxious 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.040 of ways. Is what I think that this mask some 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.120 people have like like taken that as a symbol of like, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.679 you know what everyone's talking about feminism, I'm going to 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.560 be an asshole. My anarchy statement is to like push 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:34.520 back on that system and the government. Yes exactly. Yeah, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.160 I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna hurt a lot of people 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:42.840 because they to protect this statue of my oppressor, my 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.080 experience with the Guy Fox mask. And I'm very embarrassed 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.160 to say this. When I was in college, we put 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.360 on a production of Sweeney Todd at the main stage 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.959 of Brown University. And it was not just a production 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.720 of Sweeney Todd. It was uh an Occupy Wall Street 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:04.280 themed production of Sweeney Todd, which is the most I 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.520 feel like every liberal state, every stereotype that like Tucker 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.560 Carlson has about Brown University. It's like, oh, they're like 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.800 there was a giant McDonald's billboard as the backdrop and 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.800 someone spray painted over it, Eat the rich, Like that 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.720 was like subtext us that was subject and during like 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.680 the subtext and during like the you get it because 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:33.280 in Sweeney Todd they yeah. And then during the masquerade scene, 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.960 which is like a flashback of Sweeney Todd's wife, there's 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.400 a masked ball and all all of us in the 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:44.679 ensembles dancers were wearing Guy Fox masks and then she 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:48.120 gets raped. Dana. Is that that's what they wanted? To 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.960 project off to that that well, we were we were 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.960 the the we were the idea was that we the 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.560 students were occupying the theater putting on a production of 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:05.199 Sweenets putting great. That's what everybody production of Sweeney Todd 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.480 And you just have to have those masks that they're 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.400 ready effort to use during the masquerade scene. I feel 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.200 like that's a perfect college production story. Like I feel 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:16.800 like every single one of us has one of those 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.520 that we were right, this is going to absolutely blow 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.800 everyone's money. Hit the nail on the head. It reminded 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.920 me I did in college at Northwestern a production of 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:35.079 Brett Caucasian Chalk Circle, and uh, you know, it's very meta. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.520 And the director decided is going to be in a 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.760 circus tent, and she spent all of her money to 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.280 put it in a circus tent on like Norris Lawn, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.520 which is right by the water, and it's because like 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.640 society is a circus, you know, And and all of 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.720 the budget went into that. And on the first night 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.160 it was in May, there was a classic May Chicago 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.719 thunderstorm and we were in a circus tent with lights 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.240 and metal bleachers, and I was like, am I going 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:12.160 to die for a production of Caucasian Chalk Circle. Um, 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.520 and everyone in the audience was looking like are we 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.760 going to die watching the student production of Chalk Circle? 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.360 And then thankfully like someone called it called the dean's 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.559 office or something, and it was shutdown and we had 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.160 to do it in a in a conference room the 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:40.679 rest of the time with carpet. Oh. Anyway, the complete 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.920 aside that Mike, if you want to cut out, you 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:48.760 can't keep please keep it in keeping well. I feel 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:53.640 like theatricality is a big theme which brings us to 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.160 book one, in which we meet our two protagonists e 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:06.400 V and v UM. Okay, I'm gonna take a breather 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:24.120 and prepare an elaborate set if you're listening and have 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.480 read it or seen the movie, I'm going to give 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.120 us to remind you, because we sort of have, you know, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.000 read all of them, what the beginning and the end 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:32.720 of Act one is, so we can just sort of 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.560 dive in so we all know the beginning is obviously 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.440 at the beginning of the book, e V is a 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:42.200 young woman working in this new post apocalyptic London, and 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.400 she goes out to work her first night as a 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.480 prostitute when she's accosted by Fingerman who are like the 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.240 secret police. Um, we're going to get to the plot. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.880 But she meets V, who's like an anarchist revolutionary Uh 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.880 bone V vaunt if you will, um and sort. The 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.040 end of book one is we find out that V 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.880 had been a inmate at like a concentration camp testing 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:14.120 facility called lark Hill, and that the series of murders 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.400 that he had done in book one are all people 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.720 who were in authority there. So the investigating detective who's 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.800 sort of maybe like the third main character we have 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.240 like V E V. And then Creedy, who's is it Creed? 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.120 No Finch? Sorry again, I made a cheat sheet of 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.120 all the white guys because I kept running music trackoman names. 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.840 The third maybe like of this triumvirant triumvirate is the 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.960 head of the nose of this Norse fire party. Who's 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.520 a guy named Finch who's a detective trying to figure 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.160 out who this terrorist is. And at the end of 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.080 book one, Book one, Finch finds out that these murders 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.480 are all people who were at Larkhill and that maybe 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.440 V is doing a vendetta, but maybe is vendetta is 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.400 bigger than just larcale and and and it extends beyond. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.440 And that's just to cover up. Yeah, I that just 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.040 to skip to the unreal quick of this book. I 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.560 feel like I was really enjoying it. And I'm not 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.000 someone who reads I don't read a lot of graphic novels, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.400 so this is like it's almost retraining my brain to 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.480 to read this way. And it was kind of hard 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.280 at first, I would say, but then I got really 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.400 into it, and then I I just love that final 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.560 page of like, well he might have been, you know, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.520 carrying out this vendetta on all these people, which is 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.000 the optimistic theory, and I'm like, oh, ship, and it's 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:41.080 like he's clearing the playing field to like set up 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.240 some real ship. And I was like, oh, this is 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.400 but that is right. It's a it's very optimistic to think, oh, well, 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.760 he's only attacking these few people unless he's laying the groundwork. Yeah, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.480 it seems more likely that he's eliminated all of those people. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:04.960 He doesn't kill Lewis Breathroe, he renders him incurably insane. Oh, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.919 in a way that is so much scarier. Yeah. Um, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.840 but that means that none of the people who knew 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.040 him in his previous identity are able to identify him anymore. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.000 I thought that rendering louis prothero who is the voice 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.600 of Fate, who's the guy who does like the announcements 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.680 for England on like a megaphone speaker through the town. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.879 So V knows he collects rare dolls, and he like 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.040 renders him insane using putting on like a little vaudeville 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:39.440 performance with these creepy inmate dolls. Um such a good 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.000 use of the medium of a graphic novel, which is 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.280 like using pictures and like creepy dolls are creepy, and 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.200 so it's it's always interesting to me to see like 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.199 what translates really well to a graphic novel. And I 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.240 feel like that really was effectively scary to me. Oh yeah. 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.680 And also seeing him like back at the police police 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.960 precinct or wherever he was like returned to just saying Mama, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:14.239 Mama over again was very very jarring and scary and 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:20.680 also felt exactly, yeah, yeah, it's that it's that scary 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.359 thing where because we don't know what he sees, we 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.120 can always we can just fill in whatever's creepiest to us. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:32.280 M hmm, yeah, I found I you know, each way 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:37.600 that V decides to dispatch these different people were it 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.959 was also very interesting, especially Delia's Dr Delia's I was 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.959 I thought that was just a great way to not 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.919 so gently be like, even though you might be a 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.520 good person, you were complicit in watching these terrible things 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.480 happen and you didn't do anything about it. And he 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.439 participants participant to Yeah, it wasn't just that she was 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.880 like a citizen of the country who knew bad things 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.920 were going on. She was giving people at a concentration 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.359 camp medical scientific disease that caused most of them to 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.560 die horribly, so she could work on a cure. But 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.439 I do I do like that it gives V that 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.520 moment of like killing her in a merciful way, and 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.480 they sort of have that moment as peers, which is 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.919 like almost as chilling to me as any of the murders. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.560 He just sort of like we see like that he 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.320 has um a code a code of ethics in his 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.479 own crazy mind, you know, like, yeah, he's not like 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.760 a joker, he's not like out doing things because he's crazy. 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.680 He's like very methodical and like he knows that she's 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.119 like kind of a could have been a good person, 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.800 she could do something. She was going about it in 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.080 a horrifying way. Thank you. Yeah, I think Complicity was up. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.200 I think like that she had a she is it she? 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.760 Also I think maybe had like a hint of a 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.560 morse more so than say Presso as if that was 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:12.120 his name. Yeah, he fucking sucks. He so like off 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.320 with him. Can. I know you haven't seen the movie, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.760 but I'm so excited for you to see the movie. Like, 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.840 I'm just so excited for you to see the movie. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.479 I mean I I also don't read graphic novels. This 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.240 is my I think this is my first Yeah, for 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.760 sure first one ever. So like Melissa had said, I 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.240 had to like kind of train my brain to the 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:38.399 style of it, and I've been missing out. They are right. Yeah, Um, 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.680 Alan Moore is just really great too, Like just really, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.119 I'm not a huge graphic novel person, but I really 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.960 like cal Off Alan wors graphic novels. My slight, Um, 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.000 I am a big graphic novel person. I'm a big 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:56.720 comic book person. My slight difficulty with this book at first, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.320 and it just took me a while and I got 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.680 used to it. It was like a lot of a 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.439 middle aged white dude looked the same to me, and 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.440 I just wanted them all to be wearing name name 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.640 tex when I'm also on that level. I just kind 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.439 of accepted early on that I'm never going to know 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.000 who's who, and I can use context clues to kind 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.080 of figure out some of them, and that's okay with me. 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.400 They don't need me to know who they are. They're 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.400 not real people, um And it's fine, It's fine. That's 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.159 kind of the point. I feel like, I feel like 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.919 it was intentional that they were all drawn very similarly, 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.760 because they're all kind of the same. They're all kind 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:38.080 of very just like shadowy bad guy in Shadowy Bad Government, 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.480 and I feel like that's kind of the reason that 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.760 they are like that they're all sort of cogs in 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.240 this like in this um. One thing that was really 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.879 interesting to me that I I don't again want to 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.640 compare it to the movie yet, but we do sort 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.040 of get the like weird humanizing of these weird bureaucrats 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.400 and we find out they're like boring lives and they're 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:01.560 shitty marriages, which is almost scarier than just when bad 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.480 guys are like like you know, Voldemort or just some 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.399 like big bad to like know that these people doing 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.520 an upholding horrific systems are just like shitty dumb dudes. 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:18.240 They're just normal dudes. I'm sorry, competent dudes. Indeed we 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:22.280 are mass me feel a little better. Kind of like 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.119 to see Almond, who if I remember correctly, not to 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:27.119 compare it to the movie, but was not in the movie, 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.480 but like it was kind of really shitty in the book. 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.640 To see him, like not to see him beating his wife, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.280 that makes me feel better, But seeing him die after 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.960 seeing him beat his wife, I'm kind of like, maybe 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:44.600 this vse guys onto something. I feel like he's not wrong. 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.720 He's not necessarily right, but he's not wrong. He is 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.879 very Another thing that Alan Moore criticized movie for is 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.440 he's like v V isn't just about overthrowing to a 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.840 totalitarian government. He is in favor of anarchy. That is 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.399 the system of government that he wants. I Dani Schwartz, Um, 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:08.480 if I was, you know, picking a government system, wouldn't 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.200 go anarchy. But I think that V as a character 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.040 is incredibly interesting and compelling. Yeah. I haven't seen the 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:21.560 movie yet, Um, but I know, it's very exciting. It's 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.600 so good. This is one one movie where again we'll 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:27.880 get to it. Personally, I feel like it makes effective 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:32.119 changes to work as a movie and really works as 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:34.960 a movie. And seeing it kind of in reverse reading 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:36.960 this for the first time after having seen the movie 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.080 so many times and like, oh, I like, no disrespect 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:42.920 to Alan Moore, but this is actually a pretty decent adaptation. 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:45.520 You gotta tighten, you gotta make it be like where 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.760 where's the two Hours? But there are some characters that 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.480 are clearly cut out of the movie that I had 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:56.440 basically forgotten about and I loved revisiting. Um I, Mary 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.359 is obviously like a lovely woman, very sympathetic in this book. 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:05.480 Um I'm obsessed with Helen Higher. Just to pass talking 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.680 about Mary for a second. Helen Hire, who seemingly only 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.880 wears a fur coat and has like platinum white ice 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:16.480 queen hair, and introduces herself by being an unbelievable bitch 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.160 to her husband. And then when when Mary's like, oh, 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:23.880 she's quite hard on him, isn't she, her husband turns 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:25.960 to her and it's like, you'll never be as cool 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:32.600 as her? Never, wait, Mary, you mean love Rosemary right, Oh, yes, 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:40.840 Rosemar Sorry, yeah, she watans Rosemary. I'm Rosemary. She rose 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:44.399 by her husband. And Rosemary is a major character in 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:49.080 the graphic novel who's cut out of the film. She 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:53.240 is straight gone, straight gone, which I think is effective 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:55.800 because the movie is making different points. But in the 0:24:55.920 --> 0:25:00.879 novel to trace uh Rosemary's journey, she is the wife 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:06.480 of Almond, who's the head of the Finger Policeman, and 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.080 he's really abusive to her, and she's kind of like 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:13.200 meek and like, Okay, this sucks. And then again, jumping forward, 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.320 I'm losing track a little bit because we're just talking 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:20.359 about book one now, but jumping forward a little bit, Um, 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:25.280 Almond is murdered she in book one, and being a 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:31.200