Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you in i Heeart three
Speaker 1: D audio for maximum effect. Headphones are recommended. I Heeart
Speaker 1: three D Audio Charges that's created by portal Ay and
Speaker 1: Control Media. It's produced by dB Podcasts in association with
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This time a former Son's player who
Speaker 1: you might remember as t Rex. More video in just
Speaker 1: a moment, But this is Rex Chapman's mug Shawn, and
Speaker 1: we are learning a lot more about the charge up Charging. Now,
Speaker 1: the cups hit you and you're you're in fight or
Speaker 1: blight mode and you're definitely fighting. I'm like, please, like,
Speaker 1: this is five minutes. This is five minutes from the
Speaker 1: scorer's table. You were over and removing yourself from the situation, trying.
Speaker 1: You're not backing away from a fight. Ben is not
Speaker 1: backing away from a fight. It's not going back away
Speaker 1: from a fight. I'm like, rough, what the hell? God,
Speaker 1: don't stuff at me. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rex Chapman. My guest today's meta Sandiford artest a k A.
Speaker 1: Metal World Peace. He's an NBA champ, mental health advocate
Speaker 1: and someone I'm proud to consider my friend. Hailing from Queensbridge,
Speaker 1: New York. His story career has been checkered with roadblocks
Speaker 1: and missteps, but he's overcome those things and has inspired
Speaker 1: millions of others along his path. Today, we'll discuss, in
Speaker 1: his words, the infamous Malice at the Palace, the circumstances
Speaker 1: leading up to it, as well as the consequences and
Speaker 1: the aftermath. This is a fantastic interview and I hope
Speaker 1: you all will enjoy this episode of Charges with Rex Chattan.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me, Meta, I really appreciate this, bro, absolutely. Man,
Speaker 1: it's really cool being here. I remember when you first
Speaker 1: started on Twitter and I was just like scrolling through
Speaker 1: Twitter and I was just like, Wow, this is pretty funny.
Speaker 1: And then the next day I'm like this is really funny.
Speaker 1: So that I just started following you, I'm like, yeo,
Speaker 1: this is crazy. This is like world star hip hop.
Speaker 1: Like you're just a world star hip hop by yourself.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny about that, man, is that the
Speaker 1: very first time somebody this was a couple of years
Speaker 1: ago and somebody I was around the Phoenix Suns and
Speaker 1: you know, most of the guys in the locker room
Speaker 1: were black, and uh, somebody said, man, have you followed
Speaker 1: Rex's Twitter and uh, they were like, no, why why
Speaker 1: is it any good? They said, Now, it's great. He said,
Speaker 1: it's it's world Star for white people. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like and I'm sure you you probably follow a
Speaker 1: world Star maybe also, Oh yeah, for sure. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like really cool man. I was just like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just like you never I've never seen this from
Speaker 1: a basketball player, you know, that is that entertainment. I mean,
Speaker 1: we got shock Shock is really funny. But he has
Speaker 1: like a big platform. But I'm talking about every day
Speaker 1: pure comedy. Like I'm like, where do you get your
Speaker 1: videos from? I want to ask you, where do you
Speaker 1: get your videos from? I thought you had this big
Speaker 1: media company you get all the best video. Man, so
Speaker 1: many people send me stuff now I wake up. And
Speaker 1: it was kind of hard find him at first, you know,
Speaker 1: people sharing stuff and then people just start sending them.
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, this is great. And so you know,
Speaker 1: nothing better than putting a couple of smiles on people's
Speaker 1: faces throughout the day. You know, pick my spots to
Speaker 1: be serious, you know, right right right, I did. I
Speaker 1: did see a couple of nice ones where you know,
Speaker 1: you were kind of getting after and not after, but
Speaker 1: maybe add a little politics in there sometimes. But right,
Speaker 1: really cool, alright, Matta, tell me about growing up in
Speaker 1: Queen's Bridge. Well, you know, um, you're growing up at
Speaker 1: queens was really interesting because you know you got mc
Speaker 1: shan from Queen's Bridge, Molly mall who produced records for
Speaker 1: carass One, Big Daddy Kane, um, and the list goes
Speaker 1: on right and then comes along Nasty Nas from our neighborhood,
Speaker 1: component Riega, Marv Died, Roxane, Shanta and all the you
Speaker 1: know and just all a list of amazing artists. Then
Speaker 1: you have people like hand Carter, who's from my area,
Speaker 1: who just recently had a hospital wing named after him
Speaker 1: in Uptown. You probably played in the Welchair Classic before.
Speaker 1: Maybe you played in the Welchair Classics. Probably did, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's hand Carter. Hand Carters from Queensland's Projects and that
Speaker 1: program was you know, started to help paraplegics. But you know,
Speaker 1: another big success story. Then you have Verne Fleming. I
Speaker 1: played against vern absolutely so being Verne Fleman are like
Speaker 1: distant relatives because his niece has a baby with my
Speaker 1: cousin when my first cousin they have a baby together.
Speaker 1: Vern's got that real high voice to big point guard too,
Speaker 1: could do everything. Verne was tough man, real tough. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's the Olympian gold medalists and he's right from my
Speaker 1: same block. I mean the blocks where I've seen Compone
Speaker 1: from Noriega in the street shoot at people. You know,
Speaker 1: blocks where I've seen um one gentleman died from being
Speaker 1: choked by police officer. We from that block. You know.
Speaker 1: Vern is from the trenches. And then you've got Sean Green.
Speaker 1: Sean Green played for the Indiana Basis. He's from nas block.
Speaker 1: It was a guy that I played with back home,
Speaker 1: back in the hood. His name is Terminator and Terminator.
Speaker 1: He used to drink old e at the Roga part
Speaker 1: during the game. That was his game. So all forty
Speaker 1: forty forty I've seen him get forty off the glass,
Speaker 1: off the glass, tear drop off the just nice terminated
Speaker 1: and he's about thirty forty years old. Should have been
Speaker 1: an NBA. But he was like unbelievable talent. This is
Speaker 1: like this is all one hood. So what was it
Speaker 1: like for you as a kid though, navigating that world?
Speaker 1: Because you see some success mixed in there and you
Speaker 1: see a lot of people that are struggling. How do
Speaker 1: you negotiate that? As a kid growing up there, man,
Speaker 1: you just like I mean, I had my fash yet
Speaker 1: opportunities where I would dibble and dabble and then I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get involved. But I always got back
Speaker 1: involved in something. But I always got lucky. I always
Speaker 1: somehow avoided fully getting involved. And it's mostly like either
Speaker 1: you're gonna deal drugs, maybe go down, smoke a lot
Speaker 1: of weed and didn't really hurt your athleticism, and different
Speaker 1: things that can hurt you, violent stuff, getting involved, robberies
Speaker 1: and different things. So it's like you always have a
Speaker 1: decision to me because most of your friends is like
Speaker 1: somebody want to go to the store. Somebody might want
Speaker 1: to rob somebody, right, Like which friend do you go
Speaker 1: with today? You know? So that was pretty much the
Speaker 1: bulk of it. You know, you talked about and you've
Speaker 1: been very open. And when I say that, I try
Speaker 1: to be with my past. You know, I've had my struggles,
Speaker 1: as you know, because I know it can help people
Speaker 1: and the more vulnerable you are, so I appreciate you
Speaker 1: talking about this stuff and I know some of it
Speaker 1: is is difficult. You know, you talked about being an
Speaker 1: anger management as a kid. You know, why were you
Speaker 1: placed in anger management? You know, what were some of
Speaker 1: those things that you were doing that you know, cause
Speaker 1: that action to happen. So I have a history of
Speaker 1: mental health issues in the family, and a lot of
Speaker 1: it has to do with not chemical. It starts out
Speaker 1: with depression and anxiety and the body. If you become stressed,
Speaker 1: that could kill you. Stress triggers not only health problems. Stress.
Speaker 1: I let you know, if you have high blood pressure,
Speaker 1: cholesterol and it exposed it, so when you power it
Speaker 1: on top of each other, that could turn into other
Speaker 1: chemical reactions also. So I don't know where it's stemmed from.
Speaker 1: But you know, my dad definitely has some issues. My
Speaker 1: auntie who just passed away from COVID, she was in
Speaker 1: a psychiatric award for years. Yeah, thanks a lot of thanks.
Speaker 1: She's in hospital for thirty years, psychiatric ward, you know,
Speaker 1: and then we had different things. So with that being said,
Speaker 1: I was a kid where even if I was a
Speaker 1: normal kid, because most people in my neighborhood knowld me
Speaker 1: for being nice, very polite, you know, to the females
Speaker 1: and to the people Um, but I had different things
Speaker 1: that I've experienced, you know, so sometimes you'll see it
Speaker 1: come out, like a couple of times I had a
Speaker 1: fight in the hood where it just like I got
Speaker 1: tired of something. I just started punching and fighting right
Speaker 1: because just exploding. Then too many times that happened. So
Speaker 1: is that chemical imbalance or is that experiencing a little
Speaker 1: too many things? You know what I'm saying would have
Speaker 1: happened at school ever, or would have manifest itself on
Speaker 1: the playground, or had fights in school I have. I
Speaker 1: got suspended and um preschool. First time I got suspended,
Speaker 1: I was like full yeah, And then um, kindergarten. I
Speaker 1: got spent every year in school. And then when I
Speaker 1: got to the South Academy, which is a Catholic school,
Speaker 1: I got suspended my first year there U thirteen games.
Speaker 1: And then I didn't get suspend it anymore. I got
Speaker 1: the St. John's got in trouble a little bit, destroyed
Speaker 1: my Javis office. Mike Jervis and I go way back,
Speaker 1: you know. He coached Ramille Robinson and Patrick of course,
Speaker 1: and Patrick and I go way back. But Mike coach
Speaker 1: Ramil Robinson in high school and then then he went
Speaker 1: on and Ramille and I were the same class McDonald's
Speaker 1: game and all that stuff. And then he went on
Speaker 1: to coach at Boston. You and my freshman year at
Speaker 1: Kentucky we played Boston you and in our building. So
Speaker 1: I know Mike for a long time. He he was
Speaker 1: a good man. Yeah, Mike is a great guy. His wife,
Speaker 1: you know, his wife is amazing. I was sick one day.
Speaker 1: She cooked soup for me. She brought me chicken little soup.
Speaker 1: Probably I had the flu. Isn't that amazing though? I mean,
Speaker 1: you remember that that, that's what you remember this day.
Speaker 1: That's good stuff, man, I mean, because that's she didn't
Speaker 1: have to do that. You were just a kid, you know,
Speaker 1: she didn't. And that's the kind of stuff that you know,
Speaker 1: you can look back on and when you're being recruited,
Speaker 1: you know, and and he says, look, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: care of him like his family. He means it. He
Speaker 1: means it. And that's a good man. You know, what,
Speaker 1: did you ever want to go? You you end up
Speaker 1: at St. John's, Um, did you want to go anywhere else?
Speaker 1: I almost was at Miami. That was just so what
Speaker 1: happened was I was committed to Miami University because I
Speaker 1: wanted to be an architect. So when I did my
Speaker 1: first five visits to Providence, Rhode Island, Miami, Ohio, Nordredame, Miami,
Speaker 1: and St. John's. So I didn't want to go to
Speaker 1: Providence or Rhode Island or St. John's because they didn't
Speaker 1: have architecture. Nordre Dame and Miami architecture. So Miami, Ohio
Speaker 1: had Wally Zerbiac. I was a big fan of Wally
Speaker 1: right because he's from New York City. And then, um,
Speaker 1: so I took that visit and then uh, Providence has him.
Speaker 1: Got else? I played with Sham guard Wells, so I
Speaker 1: was like, man, I'm thinking about going here. Um I
Speaker 1: think Sham went to the NBA after that, I think,
Speaker 1: And then so St. John's New York City, you know.
Speaker 1: So then when it was coming down to it, I
Speaker 1: was going to Miami. Then I made the last Literally
Speaker 1: the same day I was announcing on MSG that I
Speaker 1: was going to Miami, I decided to go to St.
Speaker 1: John I announced I'm going to St. John's and just
Speaker 1: stayed on I was going to Miami. I just stayed
Speaker 1: home because I wanted to win the title. Man, I
Speaker 1: want to win a title for St. John's. Felt like
Speaker 1: you had a little better chance there, right, Well, not
Speaker 1: a better chance. It was just fighting for the city,
Speaker 1: you know, because me being from New York is a
Speaker 1: different experience than somebody else me. I wanted to win
Speaker 1: because I'm from New York. Were proud and St. John's
Speaker 1: has never won a title. And if I'm competitive, then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay at St. John's if I'm truly competitive,
Speaker 1: which I wanted to go to the Knicks. Also, you
Speaker 1: wanted to be an architect. Yeah, really what prompted that?
Speaker 1: I mean from what age? Well, when I was thirteen,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a junior high school math teacher.
Speaker 1: And I knew like junior high school math teacher they
Speaker 1: make thirty about thirty five grant at that time, So
Speaker 1: I did that. I said, Okay, I'll just be a
Speaker 1: junior scho math teacher, teach thirteen year olds and then
Speaker 1: help a thirteen year old. I remember at that age
Speaker 1: is when I was going through a lot. So I
Speaker 1: wanted to build community centers. From my neighborhood. We had
Speaker 1: a community center called the Rees Jacob Center or Jacob
Speaker 1: Rees Center, and it was donated from some people overseas,
Speaker 1: and I remember wanting to build this and make it
Speaker 1: way better. So I said, I'll just be an architect
Speaker 1: and I could just build a community center. And that
Speaker 1: was the whole reason that I got into it. That
Speaker 1: was the whole reason I started taking math serious. But
Speaker 1: I was in between a lot of different things. Education, basketball, streets, um,
Speaker 1: so many different things. Was in a way, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't like really focus. Well, you know what I
Speaker 1: can tell you. I had some friends that wanted to
Speaker 1: be architects, and neither one of them, but both of
Speaker 1: them didn't end up becoming architects, and they went to
Speaker 1: school full time and didn't play basketball. Going to school
Speaker 1: for architecture and playing a sport, any sport at the
Speaker 1: same time, is pretty damn tough. It was extremely difficult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those courses are no joke, you know. I took the
Speaker 1: bunny courses. I mean, when I first did my first class,
Speaker 1: I saw I went to St. John. St. John's didn't
Speaker 1: have architecture, but they had some classes got could lead
Speaker 1: to it. So when I started taking my first classes,
Speaker 1: I was doing it. But then the practices were fran
Speaker 1: Faillo was at five am right so Franny and you
Speaker 1: gotta be warm, like you gotta be ready, be loose,
Speaker 1: be loose, have m I love Franny crazy. He pushed
Speaker 1: me to the limit. That's great. But I see the
Speaker 1: same way. You know, you watched college basketball. Jimmy Dikes,
Speaker 1: who does the games for ESPN, he was my assistant coach,
Speaker 1: and at Kentucky he was assistant coach for Eddie Sutton.
Speaker 1: And I can hear his voice to this day, you know,
Speaker 1: in the car behind me because I didn't go to
Speaker 1: class and I'm having to run seven miles before practice
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. You know, they were hard on us,
Speaker 1: book man. We needed it. I needed it, you know,
Speaker 1: much the same run I i quit my high school team.
Speaker 1: I was the best player in the state. Equip my
Speaker 1: high school team. Just like I got mad at the coach,
Speaker 1: got mad at the coach. I would blow up. I
Speaker 1: got suspended in school, I got in fights in school.
Speaker 1: I would get too emotional. I would get too emotional
Speaker 1: to something that. And of course, you know, back then too,
Speaker 1: people didn't talk about mental illness. They didn't talk about depression.
Speaker 1: You know, looking back, I was for sure starting to
Speaker 1: suffer from depression when I got to college because I
Speaker 1: remember people looking at me being like, oh, he got everything.
Speaker 1: People don't understand. You don't just show up one day
Speaker 1: at the University of Kentucky or at St. John's for
Speaker 1: you all of a sudden. You just appeared for me,
Speaker 1: you're playing at St. John's. I'm like that, dude's good.
Speaker 1: But you appeared. And we don't put a lot of
Speaker 1: thought into it, and especially I think many of us
Speaker 1: in society, we just look at athletes as when they
Speaker 1: show up. And there's eighteen years before all of that happened.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm so appreciative that you're willing to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Let's jump to the NBA. He stayed
Speaker 1: a year at St. John's, right, and you're if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, your first year was nine nine two thousand.
Speaker 1: That was my last year. And I remember us coming
Speaker 1: to play you guys. I want to say Elton Elton
Speaker 1: Brand was maybe your guys. He's the man, right, right,
Speaker 1: And I remember we played you and I wasn't really
Speaker 1: playing a whole lot at that point. I wasn't very good,
Speaker 1: but I remember watching you and just being like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this dude is strong, long, and you could
Speaker 1: hold and grab more back then too. Yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 1: and you could guard you know, well really everybody, um,
Speaker 1: you know, every position, and you really didn't have much
Speaker 1: offense yet you didn't have the confidence you could do it.
Speaker 1: But I was like, man, once this dude figures that
Speaker 1: part out, it's a rap. So let me ask you
Speaker 1: your nineteen when you came in, right, I was too.
Speaker 1: I was the youngest player my first year at Kareem
Speaker 1: was the oldest player about that. He was forty one.
Speaker 1: But so let me ask you, you come in at nineteen,
Speaker 1: when did you feel like you made it in the NBA.
Speaker 1: My third year at Chicago, I felt like I was
Speaker 1: ready because I was playing well and I was like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is about to happen. I'm about to really, you know,
Speaker 1: basically work myself to my first contract and I'm playing better,
Speaker 1: So it was way more encouraging. Yeah, I was averaging
Speaker 1: about fifteen right before I got traded from the Bulls,
Speaker 1: and that's from you know, the previous year at eleven
Speaker 1: and twelve, and then went the fifteen. So I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: keep working and that you know, maybe next year the eighteen,
Speaker 1: Maybe next year be twenty and they just kept going up,
Speaker 1: so I was getting better and better. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a fast progression once you kind I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: half the battle is being able to compete physically. You know,
Speaker 1: if you can't compete physically, then it's really hard. In
Speaker 1: this league. You could always do that, and then you
Speaker 1: had I came in the other way. I was real
Speaker 1: light and thin for most of my career, and I
Speaker 1: had to learn to be more physical and too. You know,
Speaker 1: I was trying my whole life trying to go to
Speaker 1: the basket and not get fouled and lay it in
Speaker 1: instead of doing hit, getting hit and lay it in.
Speaker 1: So there was a lot well, because you started attacking more.
Speaker 1: He was attacking the rim and how is that. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you got put down a couple of times, but
Speaker 1: you would fight back. So they if somebody's gonna put
Speaker 1: you down, they risk REX getting in their face, and
Speaker 1: they risk punch in the face. Yeah. Man, you know,
Speaker 1: I I don't know where that came from, Probably from
Speaker 1: my dad, because you know, he was I never played
Speaker 1: good enough. I never played well enough. I remember coming
Speaker 1: home one day, Rod I had like forty seven points
Speaker 1: and he coached his own team. He coached A Division
Speaker 1: two teams, so he didn't get to see me play
Speaker 1: very much. But it was my junior senior year in
Speaker 1: high school and I had like forty seven and fifteen
Speaker 1: and like ten blocks, and you know, we're not playing
Speaker 1: very good competition around here anyway. But I came home
Speaker 1: that night on the bus and I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: he can't be upset about this. And I walked in nothing.
Speaker 1: He didn't say anything. I walked behind him, asked my mom,
Speaker 1: is he okay? What's going on? She went, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I walked back in there. He didn't
Speaker 1: say anything. Finally I said, what do you think? And
Speaker 1: he went, oh, you want to know what I think.
Speaker 1: I want to know when you're gonna take a fucking charge,
Speaker 1: you're ever gonna take a charge? Yeah? Yeah. See. So
Speaker 1: that was part of my stuff too. So I like
Speaker 1: he was never physical. He big like us. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's big, but he was. He had me perfectly wired
Speaker 1: to go to college. He played in the with a
Speaker 1: B A, so he he had been around, but he
Speaker 1: had me perfectly wired to go to college and expect
Speaker 1: to not play. You know, I thought I was gonna
Speaker 1: have to go in and I did, and you know,
Speaker 1: I only weighed like a hundred and sixty pounds, so
Speaker 1: I was gonna have to go. He said, I hope
Speaker 1: they don't red shirt you, and I stid, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: hope they don't either. But yeah, so we all have
Speaker 1: our stuff and our upbringing, and I think that really
Speaker 1: shapes us. So now you're playing, well, you're m in Chicago,
Speaker 1: but you're traded. You're traded Indiana. Now for me personally,
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, my whole life, everybody always just
Speaker 1: wanted me. They wanted me on their team. And so
Speaker 1: I've spent three and a half years in Charlotte and
Speaker 1: then the Hornets traded me to Washington, and I remember
Speaker 1: kind of having my feelings hurt. I was kind of excited,
Speaker 1: but I was also it hurt my pride a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I felt like, So tell me about for you,
Speaker 1: how to being traded for the first time. How did
Speaker 1: that affect you? Yeah, I mean being traded, you know,
Speaker 1: it was tough because like my favorite team growing up
Speaker 1: was the Chicago Bulls. You know, a favorite team growing
Speaker 1: up was the Bulls. And then when you get traded
Speaker 1: and you worked really hard on the court, you know,
Speaker 1: to make it to the NBA and you go to
Speaker 1: your favorite team met Michael Jordan's I mean that's just
Speaker 1: like that's a dream come true. And then when you
Speaker 1: know it's over, it's like and I knew I would
Speaker 1: never go back, and I left on bad terms. I
Speaker 1: was twenty one when I got traded, maybe turn twenty
Speaker 1: two and pretty much a head case. I was a
Speaker 1: head case there right, so I knew it was over.
Speaker 1: I got traded in Miami. I was on the bus.
Speaker 1: They told me you traded, and he was like okay.
Speaker 1: They said, don't shoot, don't get dressed, because you know,
Speaker 1: when you get traded, they don't want you to shoot.
Speaker 1: They want you to just you're done. And I didn't listen.
Speaker 1: I said, no, I'm in Miami. I'm gonna get my
Speaker 1: last couple of shots, and I wanted so I put
Speaker 1: my game uniform on and I just shot the whole time.
Speaker 1: When I just had a nice little practice pregame session,
Speaker 1: went hard and just really cherished a moment like you
Speaker 1: know what, you messed it up, but you know, just
Speaker 1: be grateful you was here with the bulls. So I
Speaker 1: just went hard. I shot until they came back out
Speaker 1: at forty minutes ago. You know how much they gonna
Speaker 1: come out, You come out about twenty minutes. So I
Speaker 1: just kept shooting, and when the bulls came back out,
Speaker 1: then I went in the back and I was on
Speaker 1: my way to Indiana. And then that when I went
Speaker 1: to Indiana, Vern Fleman was the coach. Oh that's I
Speaker 1: forgot about that. He was the assistant coach. And I
Speaker 1: never met Vern when I was younger, and I always
Speaker 1: was upset about that because I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 1: heard so much about Vern Fleman, and you know, Queens
Speaker 1: was the wild place. So that he's got a twin brother,
Speaker 1: and he got a twin Vern and Vic. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: both was nice. They both was nice, you know, but
Speaker 1: queensbrid it's just such a unique place where you know,
Speaker 1: you grow up in a lot of friends. Is the
Speaker 1: biggest federal housing project in America. So you Verned Fleman,
Speaker 1: you probably know a lot of people, so I can
Speaker 1: get white. He didn't come back. So anyway, when I
Speaker 1: got to uh Indiana and he passed me the bull,
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about my idol. This is my idol,
Speaker 1: Like this is the guy that I wanted to be, Like,
Speaker 1: this is the guy, and I know he had the
Speaker 1: gold medal. I thought I should have had a gold
Speaker 1: medal because when you're the defensive player of the year
Speaker 1: and you don't get invited to the Olympics and you
Speaker 1: was all start with you a right. So the first
Speaker 1: time I didn't get invited to the Olympics, I said, man,
Speaker 1: that's a shock. What year was that? Two thousand four?
Speaker 1: All right, so let me ask this. So this was
Speaker 1: two thousand four, what year were you traded? I was
Speaker 1: trading in two thousand two. I was going through a lot.
Speaker 1: I was still let the league in flagrant fouls all that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So at this point when you got passed over for it,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you were passed over? Because is
Speaker 1: the powers that be thought you were a head case?
Speaker 1: Well at that in two thousand and four, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Now I meanwhile, I was an Olympican in high school.
Speaker 1: I was on the USA team in high school. Sold
Speaker 1: you know, I'm primed to go to be a USA
Speaker 1: team in the NBA. So at that time, I didn't
Speaker 1: know nothing about the Olympics. I just thought you just go.
Speaker 1: So I said, oh, they passed me. Kobe's playing a
Speaker 1: couple of my brother Kobe, a couple other people playing,
Speaker 1: so I didn't question it. But then in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, when nobody picked my phone call up, I
Speaker 1: called my agents. I was like scrambling. I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: the Olympics is a month from now, and I don't
Speaker 1: even know I'll take somebody's spot. Like I knew they
Speaker 1: had Lebron, they had me. Richard Jefferson said, listen, give
Speaker 1: me a tryout. I'm taking somebody's spot. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: the easiest thing. You have them right and literally, and
Speaker 1: my agent told me he was like, listen, because of
Speaker 1: your history, people didn't want you to play on the team,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't taking me. So I felt like I
Speaker 1: wasn't right because the Olympics and the NBA, it's like
Speaker 1: it doesn't have anything to do with each other. As
Speaker 1: a player, I deserve to have a tryout. I say,
Speaker 1: don't even pick me. Just let me go into practice
Speaker 1: and just snatch somebody's spot really easy. And then two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve came. I was older, but I was like, man.
Speaker 1: But then right after that then I had another incident
Speaker 1: in the NBA. I guess I didn't really deserve it.
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't like the professional but you know,
Speaker 1: but what I'm gonna do? You know, But I really
Speaker 1: I called myself an Olympian because it's no way that
Speaker 1: I'm not an Olympian, you know, But I just didn't
Speaker 1: make the team. Man. Incredible. Um, all right, So your
Speaker 1: first season when you got there, you're with Reggie Miller,
Speaker 1: who kicked my ass for years. Um, you're there with
Speaker 1: Jermaine O'Neil. My rook my rookie. Did you know this?
Speaker 1: My rook Stevie Jackson. Stevie Jackson. Stevie was drafted that
Speaker 1: right out of high school. He didn't go to college. Remember,
Speaker 1: uh funny story uh ange Danny Ainge drafted him. They
Speaker 1: and Brian Colangelo. They drafted him with the Sons. Well,
Speaker 1: we were stacked. I was playing and Steve Nash was playing,
Speaker 1: Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson. There was no he he wasn't
Speaker 1: making the team. But he came into camp and I
Speaker 1: had never seen anything like it. He had When you
Speaker 1: and I were playing, you just took what the defense
Speaker 1: gave you. And now guys have prepackaged moves that they
Speaker 1: got right. And Stevie was one of the first people
Speaker 1: I ever saw, you know, have that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, like people talk about the and one game,
Speaker 1: you know, just the handles, the crazy handles. And I
Speaker 1: remember one day in practice, Stevie went to cross me up.
Speaker 1: He threw it real hard. It bounced off his left
Speaker 1: shin and back into his right hand, and I fell down,
Speaker 1: fell down, and he was just standing there. I was
Speaker 1: like what he he knew he was He did it
Speaker 1: on purpose. He bounced it, hit the floor, hit his
Speaker 1: left shin, bounced back up into his right hand, and
Speaker 1: I fell down and everybody started laughing. Of course they did.
Speaker 1: And then we had to have him show us how
Speaker 1: to do it, and of course none of us could
Speaker 1: do it. We we looked idiotic. But then Stevie got
Speaker 1: cut and but he was my rook there for about
Speaker 1: a month, and that's where I got to know him.
Speaker 1: Then he went and made his way back, got his
Speaker 1: chance with Byron Scott. I was so happy. But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get into some of that with you, So let
Speaker 1: me ask you. You had three different jersey numbers in Indiana,
Speaker 1: fifteen three, and why what were those about? Well, fifteen
Speaker 1: was my number, and that's like my personal number, and
Speaker 1: it's called his number. It's Carmelo Anthony's number. You wore
Speaker 1: it a St. John's correct. I wore that St. John's
Speaker 1: ward in high school, and then you know, I became
Speaker 1: I always just tried to distract myself from the NBA
Speaker 1: because I just couldn't sit still. So I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna change my number to all my
Speaker 1: favorite players. Michael Jordan's just came back, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: this is insane. I'm literally about to play with Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan against Michael Jordan. And I played against Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: previously in the summertime, uh in Chicago. Then that number said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be an All Star in the champion of
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan number, So I'll change my number of twenty three.
Speaker 1: This is Lebron James rookie. Yeah, the only yell Lebron
Speaker 1: Dame make the All Star Game. Right. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm the best defender in the league at this point,
Speaker 1: and I got Michael Jordan number. My offensive game is
Speaker 1: coming also, right, and Michael Jordan's an amazing defender. That's
Speaker 1: my favorite part of Michael Jordans. I watched him play defense.
Speaker 1: So twenty three was just to honor him. And then Robman.
Speaker 1: That's Robbins, like my favorite player. Like that's so dope.
Speaker 1: I had no idea about that. And in fact, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you you know, we as players, especially when you're playing,
Speaker 1: you don't want to give it up to anybody. You know,
Speaker 1: when Michael was playing, I played every year against Michael,
Speaker 1: came in after him, and I left before he left.
Speaker 1: So he was different. You know, his hands, that was
Speaker 1: a whole different deal. You know how big is hand.
Speaker 1: Watched the game, he couldn't. He didn't punk me, but
Speaker 1: he kicked my you know. Yeah, but here here's what
Speaker 1: I'll say. You know, there are guys and that's what
Speaker 1: I want. I want to get into the defensive part
Speaker 1: with you. There are guys. You know. Michael was so
Speaker 1: competitive too, and you know there are times, you know,
Speaker 1: you get guys on a pump fake and then you
Speaker 1: go and you're dunking it right, one dribble and you're
Speaker 1: dunking it. I can think of about three times in
Speaker 1: my career that you know, I gave him a perfect
Speaker 1: head and shoulder fake, and that against anybody else in
Speaker 1: the league, Clyde, Glenn, Rice, it didn't Reggie. It didn't matter.
Speaker 1: I was wonder able dunking it. And three times at
Speaker 1: least he went, he lunged, he's out of the play,
Speaker 1: got back to rip it from me somehow when I
Speaker 1: went to gather. I mean, he was just different and
Speaker 1: his competitiveness. He didn't have to, you know, Clyde might
Speaker 1: have just gone over into the bench and been like,
Speaker 1: you know, not Michael. He didn't want to be showed
Speaker 1: up on any play ever. But I know you played
Speaker 1: the same way, you know, And I was an offensive
Speaker 1: player for the most part. I tried to hold my
Speaker 1: own defensively. What is it, like you said I was
Speaker 1: by that time, I knew I was the best defensive
Speaker 1: player in the league. What is that confidence? What does
Speaker 1: that feel like going out there? You know, there was
Speaker 1: pressure on me to put the ball in the basket.
Speaker 1: You know, um, I can't imagine. You know, every defense
Speaker 1: hinges on you, and that's a lot of pressure. But
Speaker 1: it also has to feel great. It did, man, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I could. I could score the ball in
Speaker 1: high school, college and NBAS at different levels. So I
Speaker 1: had to figure it out. I wasn't ready to scoring
Speaker 1: an NBA And so after that point, in time. But
Speaker 1: when I was ours in twenty four, that's when I
Speaker 1: had Steve Jackson. Before Steve Jackson, I did have our Haarentson.
Speaker 1: Our Haarentsons are great different. I was always guarding the
Speaker 1: best players. So most of my energy, you know, I
Speaker 1: was trained not to let somebody score, because even when
Speaker 1: I was in high school, I used to hold people
Speaker 1: to zero two points and I didn't in the NBA
Speaker 1: to I help people to two points zero three all stars,
Speaker 1: that's insane, insane. I was actually like crazy, like how
Speaker 1: am I doing this right? This is crazy? Bet you were?
Speaker 1: I bet you were, because people don't understand. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you don't get your average in the NBA, it's
Speaker 1: a bad night and you're holding people to two and none. Crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just insane. And then but so I always
Speaker 1: had that. It wasn't even a pressure. I had the responsibility,
Speaker 1: but I also wanted to guard. I wanted to go
Speaker 1: so I often with waste so much energy on defense.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have no energy fired. God. See that's just
Speaker 1: the opposite of me. Maybe that's why my teams didn't win.
Speaker 1: But once I got Steve Jackson, average go up. When
Speaker 1: I had Shane Batty twenty two in the playoffs when
Speaker 1: I had Johnny Salomon's average twenty and night because they
Speaker 1: was always taking the best place I could take possession.
Speaker 1: That's so great, man. Yeah, let's take ourselves back to
Speaker 1: November nineteen, two thousand and four, in Auburn Hills, Michigan
Speaker 1: to the Malice at the Palace. This game was the
Speaker 1: first time these two teams played since the Eastern Conference Finals,
Speaker 1: which the Pistons won in six games. The cooks in
Speaker 1: the kitchen butting heads were Ben Wallace and run our test,
Speaker 1: two of the toughest in the game. With forty seven
Speaker 1: seconds left in the game, all hell broke loofs right
Speaker 1: out tests and be serious and they don't get the trade.
Speaker 1: How our tests jumped over the schools table and just
Speaker 1: trying to get down to the bench. Our test is
Speaker 1: in the stance is going out of these This is
Speaker 1: the space. All right, We're gonna get serious for a second.
Speaker 1: So when everything seemed to change, you're an Indy, you're
Speaker 1: playing really well, All Star in two thousand four, Defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Year. You're in the conversation at this
Speaker 1: point for the m v P. Right, I mean you're
Speaker 1: playing that well, the team is stacked. Then the big
Speaker 1: moment at Auburn Hills. Walk me through the day, Uh,
Speaker 1: if you can that day as much as you can remember,
Speaker 1: was there anything going on in your life that you Okay,
Speaker 1: just walk me through what was going on at that
Speaker 1: point at the palace. But even though something was going
Speaker 1: on that time, it had nothing to do with that
Speaker 1: guy throwing something at me. I could have been having
Speaker 1: the happiest day of my life in Disneyland and somewhere
Speaker 1: and I would have been like pissing through something. But
Speaker 1: what happened. So in August I was thinking about retiring.
Speaker 1: I was twenty three. So in August I started to
Speaker 1: because even that summer I was like stressed the whole time.
Speaker 1: I was just going through a lot. You were thinking
Speaker 1: about retiring at twenty three for what reason? You know?
Speaker 1: I felt like, Um, I wanted a year off from
Speaker 1: having to do too much, just relaxing, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to focus on of my family because I felt like
Speaker 1: when I made it, I wasn't focused on my family
Speaker 1: as much. I'm like, you know, I gotta get back
Speaker 1: to my family, like you know. And that was It
Speaker 1: was a lot of different things that was happening, and
Speaker 1: I felt like being away from my family. I'm not
Speaker 1: working all my family. I could have managed it, but
Speaker 1: I mean one could have managed it. I just couldn't
Speaker 1: manage it right like I would have preferred to. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I just saw I called the NBA and
Speaker 1: about October, maybe September, and I said I want to retire,
Speaker 1: thinking of a month. I remember speaking to a couple
Speaker 1: of people and they were like, what, what well you
Speaker 1: want to retire? You why I've beture? I said, I
Speaker 1: need my papers, like send me the retiring papers. What
Speaker 1: do I gotta do? And this is like right when
Speaker 1: I signed my contract and then they was gonna send
Speaker 1: in my papers. I actually got the papers, you know,
Speaker 1: to just resire, but it was still on the table
Speaker 1: for me to stay. And then you know, I spoke
Speaker 1: to it to my family members. They said everything's gonna
Speaker 1: be okay, b all right. I spoke to my family
Speaker 1: and said, okay, cool. So I didn't retire. Grandma passed October.
Speaker 1: So when she passed, I take a trip to Miami.
Speaker 1: I go down to um I just leave the season.
Speaker 1: I just go party in Miami. I went down to
Speaker 1: Sauce Awards. So my grandma passed, but I changed as
Speaker 1: a staple in our lives, you know, and I was
Speaker 1: like going through a lot, so I kind of let
Speaker 1: us some steam came back and then, um, I was
Speaker 1: practicing every day, and that's something I Meanwhile, that's summer.
Speaker 1: Larry Bird was in the gym every day with me,
Speaker 1: Larry Burn Chuck person, that's who I was working with.
Speaker 1: I wrote my average going from eighteen first nine Games
Speaker 1: of Marriage in twenty four because I'm listen, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at Larry Burgh every day. Listen our call Larry, like,
Speaker 1: how do you do this? I watched your tape, I'll say,
Speaker 1: because I was watching Larry. Then I come back to
Speaker 1: practice and he's there like, okay, just do they just
Speaker 1: attacked elbow win every day going full speed. So Larry
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with how good I was.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, all right. So if you're at the palace,
Speaker 1: that game was physical, really physical. Before we get into that,
Speaker 1: go back, what was going on, you know, say, the
Speaker 1: night before that morning, Um, as much color as you
Speaker 1: could give to the day, I guess, well, I mean
Speaker 1: I just had a therapy session the day before, so
Speaker 1: I was already. I was already in therapy every day,
Speaker 1: your own therapist. It was actually just suggested it came
Speaker 1: from Chicago when I was When I was in Chicago,
Speaker 1: I already started therapy and my rookie year, that's great,
Speaker 1: And I was I was fighting with the therapist a lot.
Speaker 1: I was always fighting with them because I was always like,
Speaker 1: you know that's what I say, right, Well I got this. Also,
Speaker 1: I was in trouble and quit my team all the time,
Speaker 1: so I didn't need it. Yeah, I didn't need it.
Speaker 1: I do well good? All right, so you had therapy
Speaker 1: the day before and then what Yeah, well I was good.
Speaker 1: I was going through stuff. I was practicing. When I
Speaker 1: fouled Ben Wallace, I was like the first thing in
Speaker 1: my head, I'm like, damn it. But it wasn't a
Speaker 1: hard foul. We we've seen thousand and eighties. But when
Speaker 1: you're down twenty points and Ben Wallace, pops just died.
Speaker 1: When you're down twenty points and then metaloral peace, Ronald
Speaker 1: chest you know a guy that's tough like you, you
Speaker 1: want to show it yet, ye, let's do it. It's
Speaker 1: a perfect opportunity to fight. Did you know that his
Speaker 1: dad had passed. You know, I didn't know his dad
Speaker 1: passed that. I didn't know. I I you know now
Speaker 1: that you said it, I remember it, but I I
Speaker 1: didn't know that at the time. Yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: And so somebody told me because I was always mad
Speaker 1: at him, like because he I feel like he overreacted.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, And here's why I'm with you. And
Speaker 1: I know Ben, I go way back. He been played
Speaker 1: against my dad's college teams. He played at Virginia Union
Speaker 1: D two. Yeah, and so I saw Ben, I saw
Speaker 1: Ben playing college. How was he? Was he good? He
Speaker 1: was just like he is now, just beating everything up,
Speaker 1: or like he was when he played, just chiseled, beating
Speaker 1: everything up, dunked everything, couldn't really shoot it, all of that.
Speaker 1: He was just a man. You know, somebody messed up
Speaker 1: and let him go to Division two because he's a
Speaker 1: great dude. But you know what stood out to me
Speaker 1: about that play and that foul was that you filed him.
Speaker 1: Ben reacted and now you're over on your own, and
Speaker 1: that seemed to be a different round ar test in
Speaker 1: that moment because I could see something sort of going
Speaker 1: on in your head that you didn't want to fight
Speaker 1: with Ben. You know, it wasn't about that. You you'll
Speaker 1: fight anybody, but you didn't want to. You were over
Speaker 1: and removing yourself from the situation. And whether you you know,
Speaker 1: you were on the store's table or where you were
Speaker 1: trying your best. Okay, So at that point, what do
Speaker 1: you remember next? Well, you know, I just w I
Speaker 1: went to the scores table because my thing was Ben
Speaker 1: wanted to punch me, here to punch me. He didn't
Speaker 1: punch me. Codes I'm just gonna back up right, because
Speaker 1: back in the days and the eighties, you punched somebody
Speaker 1: in the face. That's why I knew there was something
Speaker 1: else there, because you're not backing away from a fight.
Speaker 1: Ben is not backing away from a fight. He's not
Speaker 1: going back away from a fight. He's not going back away.
Speaker 1: And you know, even if you were in the wrong,
Speaker 1: I know you and I know me too. So when
Speaker 1: you were over there by yourself, I was like, good,
Speaker 1: he's separating himself from the situation. I was proud. I mean,
Speaker 1: I jumped on shock back, my rookie year shot went
Speaker 1: after Brad O'Neill and me and Oakley. We jumped on
Speaker 1: shock Back like I'm a writer. But at this time
Speaker 1: I was just trying to like, Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: win a title and I want m v P. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. So I was like, don't mess it up.
Speaker 1: So when I got to the scorer's table, you know,
Speaker 1: I was just chill, like I asked Stephen Jackson, Jamine
Speaker 1: on there like Jamal, They're not letting nothing happen to me, right,
Speaker 1: because that's how we are, even though he was a differences.
Speaker 1: But so I said I would be on the scorls table.
Speaker 1: I'm literally not worried about nothing. And then I got
Speaker 1: Anthony Johnson and David Harrison, UM and Jamal Tensley and
Speaker 1: Jeff Foster. You don't understanding this, Indiana pays the team.
Speaker 1: I'm not worried. I'm totally not worried. Um. I got
Speaker 1: a bunch of pit bulls, Jamison Brewer, all pit bulls.
Speaker 1: But Mike, I thought that maybe it'll be an ejection,
Speaker 1: you know, you know something, it's like poop, You're out
Speaker 1: of here. I'm like, please, like, this is five minutes.
Speaker 1: This is five minutes on the scorer's table. Man. So
Speaker 1: I was and then my me and my therapist we
Speaker 1: were talking about when anything goes wrong, go to a
Speaker 1: happy place. Because I was trying to figure this out.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what my happy place was when
Speaker 1: we first started therapy. So we was like talking about kids.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, I was, okay, I'm going to a
Speaker 1: happy place. That's not happy place my kids. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I think about my right So I think the happy
Speaker 1: place was my kids. So you go and when something's
Speaker 1: about to happen, okay, think about your kids, thinking about
Speaker 1: your kids. You know what I'm saying. And then, um,
Speaker 1: when I got hit with the cup, that happened so quick.
Speaker 1: I didn't expect that because when I got hit with
Speaker 1: the cup, so I wish I was facing the other
Speaker 1: way because when I got hit with the cup, I've
Speaker 1: seen a guy who hit me, and I was wearing
Speaker 1: that direction. That's why what I seen im boo boo boop.
Speaker 1: I was doing four seconds, three seconds. And then I
Speaker 1: heard somebody on the way there. But the guy that
Speaker 1: raises hen, he was like, oh, you hit him, You
Speaker 1: hit him. And when I talked to John Green later,
Speaker 1: the guy that actually threw the cup were cool. Now.
Speaker 1: So when I talked to John Green, John Green told
Speaker 1: me the whole story. The guy who raises hid bet
Speaker 1: John Green fifty dollars that he couldn't hit me with
Speaker 1: the cup. Oh you know what I'm saying. And then
Speaker 1: that was the story. The guy bet John Green fifty
Speaker 1: dollar he could hit me with the cup. So when
Speaker 1: John Green hit me, the guy was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: you fifty dollars. That's why he raised his hands. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I owe you fifty dollars. You did it,
Speaker 1: you did it, you did it. Oh my Oh no medicine.
Speaker 1: Oh that's what's happening. Oh man. And then John Green
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I know you owe me fifty dollars,
Speaker 1: but this guerrilla is coming up here. So you've seen
Speaker 1: John Green. John Green was like, he let you go.
Speaker 1: You're looking at it right. I didn't do it. I
Speaker 1: didn't do it. I didn't do it right right right
Speaker 1: in that moment though, when that cup hits you, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to put myself in your spot, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're trying to talk yourself down. You're going through
Speaker 1: you know, four or five six years of you know,
Speaker 1: you've been working, you've been working in mental health and
Speaker 1: your work in progress, and look there's twenty thou people,
Speaker 1: you're trying to get to the next round. This is
Speaker 1: a game. Yeah, we're entertainers all that stuff. I can
Speaker 1: only imagine that in that moment it had to feel
Speaker 1: a humiliating but be had to feel like a punch
Speaker 1: being on at you, or a bunch of punches being
Speaker 1: thrown at you, like the whole world is coming down.
Speaker 1: I mean at my wrong. I was pissed. So what happened?
Speaker 1: So after being pushed, me and I relaxed. So then Been,
Speaker 1: have you ever talked to Been since that? I did?
Speaker 1: I actually did for the first time when and um
Speaker 1: fifteen years or sixteen years, I hit him up on
Speaker 1: Instagram and so I wanted to interview him. He didn't
Speaker 1: come to an interview, but then he gave me has nobody.
Speaker 1: I texted him you know what I'm saying. I texted,
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of thing. I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: because me and him was fighting. At one point in time.
Speaker 1: It was me and Been the best defenders in the league.
Speaker 1: A couple other people were thinking, but they want to
Speaker 1: get out of here with me and been the best
Speaker 1: defenders in the league. When I got suspended and he
Speaker 1: wanted defense player year again. That's again, that's your fault.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I wanted defense player the
Speaker 1: year from in between the guy he got four thos.
Speaker 1: I was right in between that. I got right in
Speaker 1: between it. Man. Man, I'm so glad you talked to
Speaker 1: him though. That that's so big man. I mean, you know, look,
Speaker 1: we get older and our pride is different and uh
Speaker 1: you know you own your stuff. So um, that makes
Speaker 1: me happy to know you. I was happy too. I
Speaker 1: was happy too because I have nothing against the beard.
Speaker 1: He's been Wallace. Man. We got issues because the reason
Speaker 1: I don't like Ben because he's a hell of a defender.
Speaker 1: That's the only reason. That's it. That's right. Ain't nothing else,
Speaker 1: ain't nothing else. So now the cups hit you and
Speaker 1: you're you're in fight or flight mode and you're definitely fighting.
Speaker 1: So do you even remember what's going through your head
Speaker 1: as you're you know, jumping over the railing and into
Speaker 1: the stands. So Ben hit me. He took off his
Speaker 1: head band, he hit me. I'm like okay. He took
Speaker 1: off his wrist band. He hit me, Like, man, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: He take off his elbow. Man hit me an eye,
Speaker 1: And I told it rough. I'm like rough. If you
Speaker 1: look at the whole thing, I'm like, rough, What the
Speaker 1: hell man? The guy throwing stuff at me, you know,
Speaker 1: and I go back and lay down. Reggie Miller got
Speaker 1: his arm on me, my brother, Reggie Miller. Then I
Speaker 1: get hit with the cup. Enough is enough, enough, enough
Speaker 1: is enough. And it's amazing how people still don't talk
Speaker 1: about that part. People do not talk about that. It's amazing,
Speaker 1: but it's okay. It's okay. But it's also healthy for
Speaker 1: people to hear this, because, look, man, we are all
Speaker 1: human and we all respond to things way differently. And
Speaker 1: you know, I know you've got years to look back
Speaker 1: on this now, meta, but you were young. You were
Speaker 1: really young, and being put in in that kind of
Speaker 1: position is very difficult, and I don't know many people
Speaker 1: that that would handle it. You know, we're out there
Speaker 1: and we take a lot of pride in what we do,
Speaker 1: you know, and the last thing you think is that
Speaker 1: somebody is ever at a sporting event gonna throw something
Speaker 1: at you. But that's not the first time I was hit,
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But still in the NBA too, it's rare.
Speaker 1: It's rare for anything like that to go down and
Speaker 1: I was hitting quarters before. But I really see who
Speaker 1: hit me. Yeah, I got hittit courts, but I could
Speaker 1: and see who hit me. So when you can see it,
Speaker 1: a great thing, A great thing. At nineteen years old,
Speaker 1: I was even more reckless. I would have win it.
Speaker 1: In of course, even if you'd have seen him, it
Speaker 1: may have been the guy next to him saying he
Speaker 1: bet him that you couldn't right, all right? So when
Speaker 1: you look back at that footage, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if you can, because I know, you know, look, man,
Speaker 1: I got in trouble and was on caught shoplifting on camera,
Speaker 1: and I've never looked at it. I've never looked at it. Meta. Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that. Yeah, I was messed up
Speaker 1: painkillers and I had done it a few times apparently,
Speaker 1: and there's video of it out there, and I've never
Speaker 1: been able to bring myself to watch it ever. You know,
Speaker 1: I was at the at the Nike store across the
Speaker 1: street and had a shopping bag and I'm in the
Speaker 1: Apple store and putting ship in my bag and walking
Speaker 1: out just I stole some ship, man, And I never
Speaker 1: been in trouble in my life. Uh, you know, when
Speaker 1: I look back, and I go, you know, people can
Speaker 1: judge me for this, and they do, and you know,
Speaker 1: if I was still there, it could continue to judge
Speaker 1: me for that. I don't want people to judge you,
Speaker 1: or judge me, or judge anybody on their worst moment,
Speaker 1: on their worst day, if you've tried to learn from it,
Speaker 1: and you've definitely done that, you know, let me ask
Speaker 1: just to follow up, finish up there at the palace.
Speaker 1: Who got you under control back in the tunnel? Who
Speaker 1: talked you down? Um? And how how did all that
Speaker 1: go down in the locker room? You got police in
Speaker 1: there and all kinds of stuff going on, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was crazy. I thought Jermaine was gonna come punch
Speaker 1: me in my face. I remember in the locker room
Speaker 1: at you. Well, when I was when I first got
Speaker 1: you the locker room, I was thinking like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I'm about to have a fight with you made and
Speaker 1: Jamaine is strong, right. He came in and he was pissed,
Speaker 1: and Jamaine is one of the best leaders. See, Jamine
Speaker 1: is a the ultimate leader. Right. So um, he came
Speaker 1: into the locker room the same old you mean, very pissed,
Speaker 1: but very professional, like he always is, you know, but
Speaker 1: very pissed. He was so mad at me, and it
Speaker 1: was just crazy. Um. But getting back to the locker room,
Speaker 1: Chuck was like, stopped because more people throwing stuff and me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm ready at this point, I'm ready to
Speaker 1: go back right and Chuck like, who's doing it? Who's
Speaker 1: here to me? Within the cups I can't see? And
Speaker 1: Chuck this head he said, round stops out, Le's get
Speaker 1: back to it. I'm like, okay, okay, And Reggie Miller
Speaker 1: like Reggie was always there, You're right, You're right, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: So those two really got me back to the locker room.
Speaker 1: And then when I sat down, Steven Jackson was there.
Speaker 1: Jamal Tensey was that so in my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is bad, but I just needed some clarification,
Speaker 1: like this is really bad, right I was, And I
Speaker 1: was in my head the whole time. And then Jack
Speaker 1: Steve Jackson was like, Yo, this is really bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I saw my teammates. I'm like, I let my
Speaker 1: teammates down once again, once again, once again, you know,
Speaker 1: because I was always like my teammates down because I'm
Speaker 1: not playing basketball. I'm always doing something that is detrimental,
Speaker 1: you know. So you you guys have always kind of
Speaker 1: reminded me of one another, Rashid Russie Wallace, way different
Speaker 1: basketball games and all that. But I never knew a
Speaker 1: teammate of yours or of Rashid's that don't love them
Speaker 1: to death or love you to death. I've always kind
Speaker 1: of felt like, you know, because you guys had a
Speaker 1: reputation in the media of being difficult or moody or
Speaker 1: you know, hot tempered and all of that stuff. The
Speaker 1: thing that I find most similar about you is that
Speaker 1: you do want people to like you. You want to
Speaker 1: be liked Ron. You're so likable and approachable, Ron, I
Speaker 1: keep calling you that. Sorry, you know, the same way
Speaker 1: with she nicest guy you ever meet. Yeah, he really is,
Speaker 1: It really is. And so you know, people see you know,
Speaker 1: the Palace, and they see Rashid getting kicked out of games,
Speaker 1: and they have only one view of them and don't
Speaker 1: really know the depth of you as people. So I'm
Speaker 1: I'm just proud. I'm happy for you. Why are you
Speaker 1: looking for more tests? That's a praise by Little Minutes
Speaker 1: or Ron on a night where Kobe Bryant this best
Speaker 1: actual here for most of the night was rebounding. What
Speaker 1: kind of satisfaction to you and how take that you
Speaker 1: were able to support him tonight? Well birth, IM think
Speaker 1: everybody my heart, Mom's psychoscious. She really helped me relax
Speaker 1: a lot. Thank you so much. The soul's difficult to
Speaker 1: play all the fun so much motion got on the playoffs?
Speaker 1: Does she held me relax? I thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You know what I wish somebody would have told me
Speaker 1: when I was young, Um, Meta do it all the time,
Speaker 1: is that life is hard. Life is hard. And I
Speaker 1: remember thinking, you know, man, I'm lucky. I got a
Speaker 1: charm life, I play basketball, I do it. And even
Speaker 1: though I I did have those things, you know, my
Speaker 1: mental makeup is just what it is. It's not you
Speaker 1: can't get a brain transplant. This is what I'm working with,
Speaker 1: and my history is what I'm working with. And the
Speaker 1: older we get, we we realized, you know, we got
Speaker 1: to take account of what we've done and try to
Speaker 1: better ourselves. And you've done that. You know, You've lived everywhere,
Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, at this point, in Chicago, Indie, Sack, Houston,
Speaker 1: l A, New York, China, Italy. You know, at this
Speaker 1: point though, all those stops, you know, what's the thing
Speaker 1: you look back on the most and are like, you know,
Speaker 1: I've really learned this about myself. What's the thing you've
Speaker 1: learned the most about yourself through all your stops? You know,
Speaker 1: I think I learned. I love the game of basketball.
Speaker 1: I love being in the gym. I remember being in
Speaker 1: Italy and I only I got fifteen ground. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to play ball because I was I couldn't get
Speaker 1: back in the league at this point. At one point
Speaker 1: in time, size I seem to play ball. I wanted
Speaker 1: to play against someone. So I go to Italy and
Speaker 1: I'm in a gym working hard, like doing my routine, stretching, uh,
Speaker 1: and I was giving back to the young guys. But
Speaker 1: I just was so locked in. And you hear those
Speaker 1: squeaks of the shoes and the ball bouncing, it's like home, right,
Speaker 1: And then just getting up shots after practice, working out
Speaker 1: after practice, being with a team traveling referee. I was
Speaker 1: so locked in and I had a great time. Man,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this for a second. Let's talk about Kobe.
Speaker 1: You know, I played against Kobe his first few years,
Speaker 1: and um, he wasn't very good when I was playing
Speaker 1: like he wasn't what he ended up being. He he
Speaker 1: might have started like if I was playing gainst him
Speaker 1: those first couple of years, I was at my best,
Speaker 1: and I remember looking forward to him because he didn't
Speaker 1: know what he was doing out there. He didn't know defensively,
Speaker 1: but he competed, really competed. And I'll never forget being
Speaker 1: out there with him. We're playing. I don't remember if
Speaker 1: it was at the Forum or at Staples, but um,
Speaker 1: I think it was at the Forum. I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but we were out at half court on a free throw,
Speaker 1: standing side by side. And you know, back then, he
Speaker 1: didn't really talk much to the guys on the other
Speaker 1: team unless you knew him or whatever, and you damn
Speaker 1: sure weren't trying to help anybody on the other team,
Speaker 1: and if they didn't go to your college or something
Speaker 1: like that. And so I'm standing back there and Kobe
Speaker 1: says to me, he bends down beside me. We got
Speaker 1: our hands on our shorts, and he says, and I
Speaker 1: was playing real well in that game in particular, and
Speaker 1: not and he said, Rex, how much do you shoot
Speaker 1: in the summer? And I looked at he was like
Speaker 1: seventeen or eighteen, and I looked at him like it
Speaker 1: kind of caught me off guard, and I looked at him.
Speaker 1: He was really like asking me, and I went, man
Speaker 1: as much as I can, I said, I every day,
Speaker 1: I said, I I jump a lot on my shot,
Speaker 1: so I can't shoot you know, five hundred, but I
Speaker 1: gotta get my two hundred, two hundred and fifty in,
Speaker 1: you know, good quality shots. And that was all during
Speaker 1: the little thing. And then you know, we dapted after
Speaker 1: the game and it was really beautiful. And then to
Speaker 1: watch him grow and and you know, he had his
Speaker 1: just issues. Wasn't the perfect guy, wasn't the perfect teammate?
Speaker 1: You know, I know Shock well, I know he and
Speaker 1: Shack were not great for a long time. But about
Speaker 1: a year ago, I was in New York with my daughter,
Speaker 1: and you know, we all here that he's had a
Speaker 1: horrific accident with his daughter and others and perished in
Speaker 1: a helicopter. Uh crash. How did it hit you? Where
Speaker 1: were you and how are you coping with it? I
Speaker 1: don't believe it still, but we know what happened. Um,
Speaker 1: it was unbelieved. I was home, I got a call
Speaker 1: from some one of my friends that actually asked me
Speaker 1: to take him to a Lago game. It was really weird.
Speaker 1: So he texted me and just says, Kobe passed away
Speaker 1: my friend never and I'm just like, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't play like that. I'm like, you know, tabloids, there's
Speaker 1: no way Kobe passed away because Kobe is not going anywhere. Um.
Speaker 1: He can get through anything. Um. And then when he
Speaker 1: when he texted me, I called him back and spoke
Speaker 1: to him. He like, yeah, it's all over the news man.
Speaker 1: I said, it's not treat that you should you should check.
Speaker 1: So at this point I call KG dinnuh and Lou Williams.
Speaker 1: And then when I spoke to KG, KG was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's treat. That's first thing. KG said, all right, And
Speaker 1: then I called Lou Williams and then you know, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's trying man. So now I'm like, oh wow, this
Speaker 1: is definitely true. So I'm not called. I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk to anybody else. I think I amoighty text
Speaker 1: Jenny And at this point, you know, I was just
Speaker 1: like crying downstairs. It was tough, man. It was just
Speaker 1: tuck out. I'm just thinking like, okay, you know it's
Speaker 1: maybe the plane crashed, Oh, the helicopter crash, and he
Speaker 1: gonna get out, you know what I'm saying. Like, um,
Speaker 1: then it's just like the worst possible with they to
Speaker 1: think about. And then at one point in time, I
Speaker 1: just thought he was playing a trick. I thought maybe
Speaker 1: he was just like playing this big trick, big magic
Speaker 1: trick or something, you know, I thought maybe he would
Speaker 1: come back. I'm thinking I'm thinking like no way the
Speaker 1: whole time, and and that's it. And I still can't
Speaker 1: believe it. Like I went through a lot, uh during
Speaker 1: that time. Just do you ever, I mean, because I
Speaker 1: find myself I'll just be sitting around sometimes and I
Speaker 1: just find myself just like having to keep from crying.
Speaker 1: Like right now, I got goose bumps, and I'm wondering,
Speaker 1: do you do you catch yourself doing? I mean you
Speaker 1: guys close close titles, do you talk about it at all? Uh?
Speaker 1: Sometimes I talk about it. I might see somebody or
Speaker 1: everybody's mentioning Kobe, and and sometimes it feels like he's here.
Speaker 1: So sometimes I'll talk about Kobe and I feel like
Speaker 1: he has so I have big smile until you realize,
Speaker 1: like Kobe not really here, you know, but I still
Speaker 1: didn't come to grips with it yet that he's not here.
Speaker 1: It's really hard to believe, like he's not here. It
Speaker 1: seemed invincible. Invincible is what he seemed like. You know.
Speaker 1: It's just it's it's still so yeah, one of them
Speaker 1: dreams you wish you woke up from. What advice do
Speaker 1: you give people out there, young kid growing up in
Speaker 1: Queen's Bridge right now going through some of the same
Speaker 1: stuff you know that you've gone through um, whether in
Speaker 1: your career or mental health wise, what kind of advice
Speaker 1: do you give young kids out there? You know, I've
Speaker 1: been going back so much to Queensbridge. I tried to
Speaker 1: just be an example, you know, just being from the
Speaker 1: same place. You know. When I made it to the NBA,
Speaker 1: I got two busses from my hood to come to
Speaker 1: the drift, So it ain't like I have I ain't
Speaker 1: missed a beat. I was back in the hood the
Speaker 1: next day, right and every summer and on the block
Speaker 1: just by myself, chilling all with my friends. So I
Speaker 1: never really had a chance to step out and be like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: this is how you be professional. It was like, no
Speaker 1: I met it. Ronald test is back. I was on
Speaker 1: the block one time, on the bench just smoking marijuana
Speaker 1: while I was in the league when you wasn't supposed
Speaker 1: to be so. I mean, but in terms of advice,
Speaker 1: I don't really have advice. But you know, just certain
Speaker 1: things remind you of certain times and you just go
Speaker 1: back to those times and certain comfort levels draw. But
Speaker 1: you know, being back in Queens, it's always a thing
Speaker 1: where I keep trying to be an example because we're
Speaker 1: from the same place, and you know, we just keep working.
Speaker 1: We just keep grinding and keep doing positive stuff, even
Speaker 1: when my company x very Sex, like, how can we
Speaker 1: do something positive? That's why I keep doing so many
Speaker 1: different things because I don't want to get caught up.
Speaker 1: Tell me about x verse X. You know, x very
Speaker 1: Sex is a community building platforms. So you get on
Speaker 1: the platform, you create a game, invite your friends, play
Speaker 1: the game in the park, in your backyard wherever, put
Speaker 1: the score in, and then it populates to your record
Speaker 1: and you get a chance to see if you're the
Speaker 1: best in your area. And you do this across America.
Speaker 1: It's just a fun thing for players. I think if
Speaker 1: you love basketball and if you're never gonna play pro
Speaker 1: play on the Actor for his exports app. I play
Speaker 1: sometimes people invite me to games. It's basketball, man. I
Speaker 1: was trying to find a way to stay close. Yeah, fantastic, man, Thanks, thanks,
Speaker 1: I was trying to find a way to stay close
Speaker 1: to the game, you know, like always want to stay
Speaker 1: close to the game. You're gonna do that. Man, You're
Speaker 1: the Metaworld piece ron artest fabric runs through the NBA
Speaker 1: and it will forever. I'm so appreciative. Thanks for doing this. Uh,
Speaker 1: please come back with talk some more. Um, if you
Speaker 1: ever need anything from me, man, serious, reach out, even
Speaker 1: if it's just to talk, even if you're going through
Speaker 1: a hard day. I'm here for you. I'm a huge fan.
Speaker 1: I love you to death. And keep doing what you're doing. Okay,
Speaker 1: and thanks a lot, man o G. You know I've
Speaker 1: watched you play. I play with you in the video
Speaker 1: games so many times, you know, when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: man play with you in the video games and just
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a basketball fan, right, so I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but I'll watch how you attack the room. I mean
Speaker 1: I've seen people Zach Levine, that's who I wanted to be.
Speaker 1: In my mind. I would when you're talking about your era.
Speaker 1: People don't get out the way because people knew that
Speaker 1: they come punk you. I see him when you drive
Speaker 1: and people just like this. Yeah, anyone. You might sneak them.
Speaker 1: I might sneak them quick. Thanks thanks man, absolutely, thank you,
Speaker 1: all right. Brow charges severing no Runnians with the law charges,
Speaker 1: Lee send the tennis in balls and charges. The celebrity
Speaker 1: gang forms charges we came along way from living lawless
Speaker 1: charges severing no Runnians with the law charges Lee send
Speaker 1: the tennis in balls and charges. The celebrity gank forms
Speaker 1: charge we came along way from living lawless. Charge. Charges
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