WEBVTT - Vol. 2: Metta Sandiford-Artest 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 This episode is brought to you in i Heeart three 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.480 D audio for maximum effect. Headphones are recommended. I Heeart 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:15.920 three D Audio Charges that's created by portal Ay and 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.200 Control Media. It's produced by dB Podcasts in association with 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:26.320 I Heart Radio. This time a former Son's player who 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.200 you might remember as t Rex. More video in just 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.840 a moment, But this is Rex Chapman's mug Shawn, and 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.559 we are learning a lot more about the charge up Charging. Now, 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.080 the cups hit you and you're you're in fight or 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.839 blight mode and you're definitely fighting. I'm like, please, like, 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.600 this is five minutes. This is five minutes from the 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:50.560 scorer's table. You were over and removing yourself from the situation, trying. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.440 You're not backing away from a fight. Ben is not 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.320 backing away from a fight. It's not going back away 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.600 from a fight. I'm like, rough, what the hell? God, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:07.120 don't stuff at me. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.920 Rex Chapman. My guest today's meta Sandiford artest a k A. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.000 Metal World Peace. He's an NBA champ, mental health advocate 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.320 and someone I'm proud to consider my friend. Hailing from Queensbridge, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.280 New York. His story career has been checkered with roadblocks 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.720 and missteps, but he's overcome those things and has inspired 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.720 millions of others along his path. Today, we'll discuss, in 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.120 his words, the infamous Malice at the Palace, the circumstances 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.920 leading up to it, as well as the consequences and 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.679 the aftermath. This is a fantastic interview and I hope 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.400 you all will enjoy this episode of Charges with Rex Chattan. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:57.280 Thanks for joining me, Meta, I really appreciate this, bro, absolutely. Man, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.720 it's really cool being here. I remember when you first 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:06.080 started on Twitter and I was just like scrolling through 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.000 Twitter and I was just like, Wow, this is pretty funny. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.080 And then the next day I'm like this is really funny. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:14.920 So that I just started following you, I'm like, yeo, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.520 this is crazy. This is like world star hip hop. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.560 Like you're just a world star hip hop by yourself. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.680 You know what's funny about that, man, is that the 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.720 very first time somebody this was a couple of years 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:30.440 ago and somebody I was around the Phoenix Suns and 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.000 you know, most of the guys in the locker room 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.000 were black, and uh, somebody said, man, have you followed 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.240 Rex's Twitter and uh, they were like, no, why why 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.000 is it any good? They said, Now, it's great. He said, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.280 it's it's world Star for white people. Yeah, it's crazy. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.359 It's like and I'm sure you you probably follow a 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.240 world Star maybe also, Oh yeah, for sure. You know, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.919 it's like really cool man. I was just like, I mean, 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:57.680 it's just like you never I've never seen this from 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.359 a basketball player, you know, that is that entertainment. I mean, 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.840 we got shock Shock is really funny. But he has 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:09.040 like a big platform. But I'm talking about every day 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.360 pure comedy. Like I'm like, where do you get your 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.600 videos from? I want to ask you, where do you 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.160 get your videos from? I thought you had this big 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.680 media company you get all the best video. Man, so 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:19.720 many people send me stuff now I wake up. And 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:21.640 it was kind of hard find him at first, you know, 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.040 people sharing stuff and then people just start sending them. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.400 I'm like, man, this is great. And so you know, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.079 nothing better than putting a couple of smiles on people's 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.480 faces throughout the day. You know, pick my spots to 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.880 be serious, you know, right right right, I did. I 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.160 did see a couple of nice ones where you know, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.760 you were kind of getting after and not after, but 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.160 maybe add a little politics in there sometimes. But right, 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.040 really cool, alright, Matta, tell me about growing up in 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.240 Queen's Bridge. Well, you know, um, you're growing up at 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:54.280 queens was really interesting because you know you got mc 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.040 shan from Queen's Bridge, Molly mall who produced records for 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.680 carass One, Big Daddy Kane, um, and the list goes 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:08.120 on right and then comes along Nasty Nas from our neighborhood, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.480 component Riega, Marv Died, Roxane, Shanta and all the you 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.320 know and just all a list of amazing artists. Then 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.839 you have people like hand Carter, who's from my area, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.680 who just recently had a hospital wing named after him 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.800 in Uptown. You probably played in the Welchair Classic before. 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.800 Maybe you played in the Welchair Classics. Probably did, right, Yeah, 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.840 that's hand Carter. Hand Carters from Queensland's Projects and that 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.599 program was you know, started to help paraplegics. But you know, 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.560 another big success story. Then you have Verne Fleming. I 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.440 played against vern absolutely so being Verne Fleman are like 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.719 distant relatives because his niece has a baby with my 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.120 cousin when my first cousin they have a baby together. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:57.960 Vern's got that real high voice to big point guard too, 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.720 could do everything. Verne was tough man, real tough. I mean, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.520 he's the Olympian gold medalists and he's right from my 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.880 same block. I mean the blocks where I've seen Compone 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.360 from Noriega in the street shoot at people. You know, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.080 blocks where I've seen um one gentleman died from being 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.279 choked by police officer. We from that block. You know. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.400 Vern is from the trenches. And then you've got Sean Green. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.760 Sean Green played for the Indiana Basis. He's from nas block. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:30.760 It was a guy that I played with back home, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.880 back in the hood. His name is Terminator and Terminator. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.440 He used to drink old e at the Roga part 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:44.400 during the game. That was his game. So all forty 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.679 forty forty I've seen him get forty off the glass, 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.000 off the glass, tear drop off the just nice terminated 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.880 and he's about thirty forty years old. Should have been 0:05:55.880 --> 0:06:00.280 an NBA. But he was like unbelievable talent. This is 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.520 like this is all one hood. So what was it 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.640 like for you as a kid though, navigating that world? 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.240 Because you see some success mixed in there and you 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.279 see a lot of people that are struggling. How do 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.279 you negotiate that? As a kid growing up there, man, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.280 you just like I mean, I had my fash yet 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.160 opportunities where I would dibble and dabble and then I said, okay, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.680 I'm not gonna get involved. But I always got back 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.960 involved in something. But I always got lucky. I always 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:33.480 somehow avoided fully getting involved. And it's mostly like either 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.840 you're gonna deal drugs, maybe go down, smoke a lot 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.040 of weed and didn't really hurt your athleticism, and different 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.440 things that can hurt you, violent stuff, getting involved, robberies 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.520 and different things. So it's like you always have a 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.160 decision to me because most of your friends is like 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.160 somebody want to go to the store. Somebody might want 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.800 to rob somebody, right, Like which friend do you go 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.120 with today? You know? So that was pretty much the 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.640 bulk of it. You know, you talked about and you've 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.279 been very open. And when I say that, I try 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.479 to be with my past. You know, I've had my struggles, 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.560 as you know, because I know it can help people 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.240 and the more vulnerable you are, so I appreciate you 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.120 talking about this stuff and I know some of it 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.720 is is difficult. You know, you talked about being an 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.320 anger management as a kid. You know, why were you 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.600 placed in anger management? You know, what were some of 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.560 those things that you were doing that you know, cause 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.400 that action to happen. So I have a history of 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.600 mental health issues in the family, and a lot of 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.480 it has to do with not chemical. It starts out 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.680 with depression and anxiety and the body. If you become stressed, 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:43.200 that could kill you. Stress triggers not only health problems. Stress. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:45.040 I let you know, if you have high blood pressure, 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.840 cholesterol and it exposed it, so when you power it 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.840 on top of each other, that could turn into other 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.360 chemical reactions also. So I don't know where it's stemmed from. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.520 But you know, my dad definitely has some issues. My 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.280 auntie who just passed away from COVID, she was in 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:08.240 a psychiatric award for years. Yeah, thanks a lot of thanks. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.960 She's in hospital for thirty years, psychiatric ward, you know, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.600 and then we had different things. So with that being said, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.560 I was a kid where even if I was a 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.720 normal kid, because most people in my neighborhood knowld me 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.080 for being nice, very polite, you know, to the females 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.760 and to the people Um, but I had different things 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.040 that I've experienced, you know, so sometimes you'll see it 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.679 come out, like a couple of times I had a 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.400 fight in the hood where it just like I got 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.760 tired of something. I just started punching and fighting right 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.439 because just exploding. Then too many times that happened. So 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.000 is that chemical imbalance or is that experiencing a little 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.680 too many things? You know what I'm saying would have 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.600 happened at school ever, or would have manifest itself on 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.800 the playground, or had fights in school I have. I 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.360 got suspended and um preschool. First time I got suspended, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.760 I was like full yeah, And then um, kindergarten. I 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.880 got spent every year in school. And then when I 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.160 got to the South Academy, which is a Catholic school, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.440 I got suspended my first year there U thirteen games. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.400 And then I didn't get suspend it anymore. I got 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.960 the St. John's got in trouble a little bit, destroyed 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.920 my Javis office. Mike Jervis and I go way back, 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.200 you know. He coached Ramille Robinson and Patrick of course, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.520 and Patrick and I go way back. But Mike coach 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.719 Ramil Robinson in high school and then then he went 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.880 on and Ramille and I were the same class McDonald's 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.240 game and all that stuff. And then he went on 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.880 to coach at Boston. You and my freshman year at 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.560 Kentucky we played Boston you and in our building. So 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.000 I know Mike for a long time. He he was 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.240 a good man. Yeah, Mike is a great guy. His wife, 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.720 you know, his wife is amazing. I was sick one day. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.840 She cooked soup for me. She brought me chicken little soup. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.920 Probably I had the flu. Isn't that amazing though? I mean, 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.760 you remember that that, that's what you remember this day. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.320 That's good stuff, man, I mean, because that's she didn't 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.360 have to do that. You were just a kid, you know, 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.480 she didn't. And that's the kind of stuff that you know, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.080 you can look back on and when you're being recruited, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.880 you know, and and he says, look, we're gonna take 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.679 care of him like his family. He means it. He 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.160 means it. And that's a good man. You know, what, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.120 did you ever want to go? You you end up 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:22.360 at St. John's, Um, did you want to go anywhere else? 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.480 I almost was at Miami. That was just so what 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.080 happened was I was committed to Miami University because I 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.840 wanted to be an architect. So when I did my 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:37.480 first five visits to Providence, Rhode Island, Miami, Ohio, Nordredame, Miami, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.160 and St. John's. So I didn't want to go to 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.880 Providence or Rhode Island or St. John's because they didn't 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:49.000 have architecture. Nordre Dame and Miami architecture. So Miami, Ohio 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.640 had Wally Zerbiac. I was a big fan of Wally 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.880 right because he's from New York City. And then, um, 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.760 so I took that visit and then uh, Providence has him. 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.640 Got else? I played with Sham guard Wells, so I 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.840 was like, man, I'm thinking about going here. Um I 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:07.600 think Sham went to the NBA after that, I think, 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.280 And then so St. John's New York City, you know. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.440 So then when it was coming down to it, I 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.200 was going to Miami. Then I made the last Literally 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.120 the same day I was announcing on MSG that I 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.040 was going to Miami, I decided to go to St. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.560 John I announced I'm going to St. John's and just 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.959 stayed on I was going to Miami. I just stayed 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:28.719 home because I wanted to win the title. Man, I 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.840 want to win a title for St. John's. Felt like 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.200 you had a little better chance there, right, Well, not 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.640 a better chance. It was just fighting for the city, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.960 you know, because me being from New York is a 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.440 different experience than somebody else me. I wanted to win 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.560 because I'm from New York. Were proud and St. John's 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.560 has never won a title. And if I'm competitive, then 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.840 I'm gonna stay at St. John's if I'm truly competitive, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:56.160 which I wanted to go to the Knicks. Also, you 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.800 wanted to be an architect. Yeah, really what prompted that? 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.840 I mean from what age? Well, when I was thirteen, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.520 I wanted to be a junior high school math teacher. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.840 And I knew like junior high school math teacher they 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.360 make thirty about thirty five grant at that time, So 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.199 I did that. I said, Okay, I'll just be a 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.520 junior scho math teacher, teach thirteen year olds and then 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.679 help a thirteen year old. I remember at that age 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.720 is when I was going through a lot. So I 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.720 wanted to build community centers. From my neighborhood. We had 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.360 a community center called the Rees Jacob Center or Jacob 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.000 Rees Center, and it was donated from some people overseas, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.440 and I remember wanting to build this and make it 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.000 way better. So I said, I'll just be an architect 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.360 and I could just build a community center. And that 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.160 was the whole reason that I got into it. That 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.800 was the whole reason I started taking math serious. But 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:52.240 I was in between a lot of different things. Education, basketball, streets, um, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.720 so many different things. Was in a way, you know, 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.480 I didn't like really focus. Well, you know what I 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.200 can tell you. I had some friends that wanted to 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.760 be architects, and neither one of them, but both of 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.680 them didn't end up becoming architects, and they went to 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.880 school full time and didn't play basketball. Going to school 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.200 for architecture and playing a sport, any sport at the 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.160 same time, is pretty damn tough. It was extremely difficult. Yeah, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.880 those courses are no joke, you know. I took the 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:24.520 bunny courses. I mean, when I first did my first class, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.360 I saw I went to St. John. St. John's didn't 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.319 have architecture, but they had some classes got could lead 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.559 to it. So when I started taking my first classes, 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.120 I was doing it. But then the practices were fran 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:42.680 Faillo was at five am right so Franny and you 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:48.040 gotta be warm, like you gotta be ready, be loose, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:54.560 be loose, have m I love Franny crazy. He pushed 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.480 me to the limit. That's great. But I see the 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.120 same way. You know, you watched college basketball. Jimmy Dikes, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.240 who does the games for ESPN, he was my assistant coach, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.160 and at Kentucky he was assistant coach for Eddie Sutton. 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.640 And I can hear his voice to this day, you know, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.000 in the car behind me because I didn't go to 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.040 class and I'm having to run seven miles before practice 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.319 and all that stuff. You know, they were hard on us, 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.640 book man. We needed it. I needed it, you know, 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.840 much the same run I i quit my high school team. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.080 I was the best player in the state. Equip my 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.760 high school team. Just like I got mad at the coach, 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.440 got mad at the coach. I would blow up. I 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.200 got suspended in school, I got in fights in school. 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.000 I would get too emotional. I would get too emotional 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.920 to something that. And of course, you know, back then too, 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.359 people didn't talk about mental illness. They didn't talk about depression. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.440 You know, looking back, I was for sure starting to 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:54.880 suffer from depression when I got to college because I 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.520 remember people looking at me being like, oh, he got everything. 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.520 People don't understand. You don't just show up one day 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.640 at the University of Kentucky or at St. John's for 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.640 you all of a sudden. You just appeared for me, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.120 you're playing at St. John's. I'm like that, dude's good. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.600 But you appeared. And we don't put a lot of 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.920 thought into it, and especially I think many of us 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.960 in society, we just look at athletes as when they 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.280 show up. And there's eighteen years before all of that happened. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.680 And that's what I'm so appreciative that you're willing to 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.560 talk about it. Let's jump to the NBA. He stayed 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:36.520 a year at St. John's, right, and you're if I'm 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.240 not mistaken, your first year was nine nine two thousand. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.200 That was my last year. And I remember us coming 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.080 to play you guys. I want to say Elton Elton 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.320 Brand was maybe your guys. He's the man, right, right, 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:53.080 And I remember we played you and I wasn't really 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.680 playing a whole lot at that point. I wasn't very good, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.360 but I remember watching you and just being like, oh 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.680 my god, this dude is strong, long, and you could 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.160 hold and grab more back then too. Yeah, and yeah, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:07.040 and you could guard you know, well really everybody, um, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.480 you know, every position, and you really didn't have much 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.800 offense yet you didn't have the confidence you could do it. 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.720 But I was like, man, once this dude figures that 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.920 part out, it's a rap. So let me ask you 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.960 your nineteen when you came in, right, I was too. 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.600 I was the youngest player my first year at Kareem 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.080 was the oldest player about that. He was forty one. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.480 But so let me ask you, you come in at nineteen, 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.680 when did you feel like you made it in the NBA. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.960 My third year at Chicago, I felt like I was 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.560 ready because I was playing well and I was like, okay, yeah, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.560 this is about to happen. I'm about to really, you know, 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.000 basically work myself to my first contract and I'm playing better, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.880 So it was way more encouraging. Yeah, I was averaging 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.560 about fifteen right before I got traded from the Bulls, 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:57.920 and that's from you know, the previous year at eleven 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.920 and twelve, and then went the fifteen. So I'm like, okay, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.920 keep working and that you know, maybe next year the eighteen, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.439 Maybe next year be twenty and they just kept going up, 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.600 so I was getting better and better. Yeah, it was 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.240 a fast progression once you kind I mean, you know, 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.479 half the battle is being able to compete physically. You know, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.800 if you can't compete physically, then it's really hard. In 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.840 this league. You could always do that, and then you 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.720 had I came in the other way. I was real 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.600 light and thin for most of my career, and I 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.520 had to learn to be more physical and too. You know, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.600 I was trying my whole life trying to go to 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.520 the basket and not get fouled and lay it in 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.639 instead of doing hit, getting hit and lay it in. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.280 So there was a lot well, because you started attacking more. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:40.720 He was attacking the rim and how is that. I'm 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.640 sure you got put down a couple of times, but 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.360 you would fight back. So they if somebody's gonna put 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.399 you down, they risk REX getting in their face, and 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.720 they risk punch in the face. Yeah. Man, you know, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.200 I I don't know where that came from, Probably from 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.879 my dad, because you know, he was I never played 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.360 good enough. I never played well enough. I remember coming 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.680 home one day, Rod I had like forty seven points 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.560 and he coached his own team. He coached A Division 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.120 two teams, so he didn't get to see me play 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.520 very much. But it was my junior senior year in 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.240 high school and I had like forty seven and fifteen 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.919 and like ten blocks, and you know, we're not playing 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.400 very good competition around here anyway. But I came home 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.200 that night on the bus and I was like, oh, man, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.679 he can't be upset about this. And I walked in nothing. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.320 He didn't say anything. I walked behind him, asked my mom, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.480 is he okay? What's going on? She went, I don't know. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.359 I don't know. I walked back in there. He didn't 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.119 say anything. Finally I said, what do you think? And 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:39.960 he went, oh, you want to know what I think. 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.159 I want to know when you're gonna take a fucking charge, 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:47.199 you're ever gonna take a charge? Yeah? Yeah. See. So 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.880 that was part of my stuff too. So I like 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.240 he was never physical. He big like us. I mean, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.320 he's big, but he was. He had me perfectly wired 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:00.280 to go to college. He played in the with a 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.320 B A, so he he had been around, but he 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.160 had me perfectly wired to go to college and expect 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.600 to not play. You know, I thought I was gonna 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:10.159 have to go in and I did, and you know, 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.800 I only weighed like a hundred and sixty pounds, so 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.360 I was gonna have to go. He said, I hope 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.399 they don't red shirt you, and I stid, Yeah, I 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.600 hope they don't either. But yeah, so we all have 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.359 our stuff and our upbringing, and I think that really 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:28.920 shapes us. So now you're playing, well, you're m in Chicago, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:34.560 but you're traded. You're traded Indiana. Now for me personally, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.960 I remember, you know, my whole life, everybody always just 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.879 wanted me. They wanted me on their team. And so 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.600 I've spent three and a half years in Charlotte and 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.720 then the Hornets traded me to Washington, and I remember 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.600 kind of having my feelings hurt. I was kind of excited, 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.440 but I was also it hurt my pride a little bit, 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.320 and I felt like, So tell me about for you, 0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.840 how to being traded for the first time. How did 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.600 that affect you? Yeah, I mean being traded, you know, 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.720 it was tough because like my favorite team growing up 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.840 was the Chicago Bulls. You know, a favorite team growing 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.880 up was the Bulls. And then when you get traded 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.280 and you worked really hard on the court, you know, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:18.720 to make it to the NBA and you go to 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.600 your favorite team met Michael Jordan's I mean that's just 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.240 like that's a dream come true. And then when you 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:28.960 know it's over, it's like and I knew I would 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.159 never go back, and I left on bad terms. I 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.679 was twenty one when I got traded, maybe turn twenty 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.960 two and pretty much a head case. I was a 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.520 head case there right, so I knew it was over. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.440 I got traded in Miami. I was on the bus. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.640 They told me you traded, and he was like okay. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.800 They said, don't shoot, don't get dressed, because you know, 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:52.760 when you get traded, they don't want you to shoot. 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.000 They want you to just you're done. And I didn't listen. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:57.840 I said, no, I'm in Miami. I'm gonna get my 0:20:57.920 --> 0:20:59.880 last couple of shots, and I wanted so I put 0:20:59.920 --> 0:21:03.720 my game uniform on and I just shot the whole time. 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.360 When I just had a nice little practice pregame session, 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.520 went hard and just really cherished a moment like you 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.840 know what, you messed it up, but you know, just 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.679 be grateful you was here with the bulls. So I 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.920 just went hard. I shot until they came back out 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.240 at forty minutes ago. You know how much they gonna 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.800 come out, You come out about twenty minutes. So I 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:23.840 just kept shooting, and when the bulls came back out, 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:25.840 then I went in the back and I was on 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:28.440 my way to Indiana. And then that when I went 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.919 to Indiana, Vern Fleman was the coach. Oh that's I 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:35.199 forgot about that. He was the assistant coach. And I 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.840