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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm to blie to chalk reporting, and I'm fair down

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Speaker 1: and people can't seem to get enough of gangster stories.

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Speaker 1: When we did the recent podcast on John Dillinger, listener

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Speaker 1: Tories suggested on Facebook that we do a continuing series

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Speaker 1: on nine twenties and thirties gangsters, and that got me

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Speaker 1: thinking of all those gangsters throughout history that sort of

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Speaker 1: became the supporting characters of the gangster world, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: just in the sense that they're not necessarily as well

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Speaker 1: known as the Capones and the Dillingers, but they were

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Speaker 1: still public enemies in their own right. They might have

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Speaker 1: been really the guys who are out there doing the

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Speaker 1: dirty work too. You might hear their names pop up

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Speaker 1: in gangster movies now and again, though often their stories

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Speaker 1: are changed a bit to fit whatever plot line they're

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Speaker 1: a part of. But in this episode, we're going to

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Speaker 1: take a closer look at a few of these sort

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Speaker 1: of side characters who have popped up in our gangster

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Speaker 1: research over and over along the way, and we'll try

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Speaker 1: to find out who they really were, and in some

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Speaker 1: cases see where they fit into the bigger picture of

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties gangsters, whether they're kind of

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Speaker 1: outliers or maybe key players. Yeah, and this is partially

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Speaker 1: inspired by Lizzie to who edits our podcast, because after

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Speaker 1: the Dillinger podcast, she wanted to know a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about baby Face Nelson, in particular because he came

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Speaker 1: up and she loved how we described him as a psychopath.

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Speaker 1: She was like, I want to know more about this guy.

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Speaker 1: So just for you, Lizzy will kick off the list

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Speaker 1: with baby Face Nelson. Indeed, so this gangster's nickname makes

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Speaker 1: him sound sweet, but he was really a ruthless killer,

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Speaker 1: as we learned in the Dillinger episode. He was born

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Speaker 1: Luster M. Gillis on December eighth, nineteen o six, in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and he was a pretty small kid. He was not

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Speaker 1: someone that you would expect to be frightened by. He

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Speaker 1: was barely five ft five, so maybe that's why he

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Speaker 1: felt like he had to be the toughest kid around

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Speaker 1: to survive from the very beginning, and he really did

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Speaker 1: start early. He started out running with a crew of

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Speaker 1: juvenile delinquents and by his teen years he was already

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Speaker 1: moving up to stealing cars, and his fellow gang members

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Speaker 1: already had started to call him baby Face by this

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Speaker 1: time because he just looked so young for his age,

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Speaker 1: and he was, as we mentioned, kind of a smaller kid.

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Speaker 1: So baby Face eventually transitioned out of auto theft and

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Speaker 1: joined the Capone mob. His job was to keep labor

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Speaker 1: union guys on line, but he was way too into

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Speaker 1: his work. He kept killing people that he was just

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Speaker 1: supposed to be kind of roughing up and intimidating a bit,

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Speaker 1: and this was kind of his trademark, being way too

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Speaker 1: reckless and quick to kill people. He didn't plan his

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Speaker 1: jobs to avoid violence or seemed to follow any sort

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Speaker 1: of gangster code. He just went in guns blazing. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't really thinking of the business side of being a gangster,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like. So he was ultimately asked to leave

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Speaker 1: the Capone gang, maybe the only person to get kicked

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Speaker 1: out of that group for being too violent that by that.

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Speaker 1: But around the same time, in about eight he met

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Speaker 1: and married a sales girl named Helen Waznach and started

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Speaker 1: holding up jewelry stores and banks in order to support her,

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Speaker 1: and he got caught after robbing a Chicago bank in

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Speaker 1: January nineteen thirty one, and ended up spending a year

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Speaker 1: in prison. He escaped though, in February of nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: two while he was being transported between facilities for hearing,

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Speaker 1: and Helen was waiting for him in a car and

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Speaker 1: helped him escape. So after that they moved to California,

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Speaker 1: where Nelson became involved in bootlegging for a while, and

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Speaker 1: that's also where he met John Paul Chase, another liquor

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Speaker 1: smuggler slash gangster, and the two of them became really

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Speaker 1: close friends and partners in crime. Chase would supposedly introduce

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Speaker 1: Nelson as his half brother sometimes, but by about the

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Speaker 1: summer of nineteen thirty three, Nelson had done pretty much

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Speaker 1: all he could do in California's bootlegging business, so he

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Speaker 1: and Helen packed it up and moved back to the

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Speaker 1: Midwest and he got involved in robbing banks again. Chase

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Speaker 1: eventually joined up with them, and then, of course, as

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Speaker 1: we know from our recent episode about the first Public

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Speaker 1: Enemy Number one, Nelson joined up with the Dillinger Gang

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Speaker 1: after Dillinger so famously escaped from Crown Point in jail

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four, and Nelson worked with the Dillinger

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Speaker 1: gang for a while, pulling off several jobs, and was

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Speaker 1: with them during that big showdown with the FBI at

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Speaker 1: Little Bohemia Lodge, which of course we talked about in

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Speaker 1: a lot more detail during the Dillinger episode. Nelson killed

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Speaker 1: one federal agent during that encounter and wounded at least

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Speaker 1: a couple more, and he and his wife and Chase

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Speaker 1: all went to California and were there when Dillinger was

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Speaker 1: shot and killed in Chicago. Nelson got promoted so to

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Speaker 1: speak to the public Enemy number one spot after that,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't really do what Dillinger did, which was

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Speaker 1: sort of trying to Compingstown a little bit since he

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Speaker 1: had so much heat on him. He didn't lay low

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Speaker 1: at all. In fact, he returned to the Midwest and

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Speaker 1: was implicated in several crimes. It almost seemed like he

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Speaker 1: wanted to live up to his new title liked the

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Speaker 1: idea of being public Enemy number one. So on November

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, Nelson and Chase stole a car in

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Speaker 1: Chicago and drove into Wisconsin. The FBI was on the

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Speaker 1: lookout for them, of course, and by the next day

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Speaker 1: a couple of agents had spotted the stolen vehicle, so

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Speaker 1: the agents and Nelson and Chase all got involved in

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Speaker 1: a shootout near Barrington, Illinois, and both the agents were

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Speaker 1: killed as a result of the shootout, and Nelson was

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Speaker 1: also mortally wounded. He did manage to get back into

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Speaker 1: the car, though, and drove off with Chase that died

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Speaker 1: at about eight pm that day. The FBI found his

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Speaker 1: body the next day near a cemetery in Niles Center, Illinois,

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Speaker 1: and it had been stripped to delay identification. So he

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Speaker 1: usually appears as a support warding character in gangster films,

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Speaker 1: including the nineteen seventy three movie Dillinger, but as we

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Speaker 1: can see, he was a lot of trouble in his

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Speaker 1: own right. I was also trying to remember I think

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Speaker 1: he's in a brother where Art Now. He has a

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Speaker 1: little part in that where he gives bank robbing with him,

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Speaker 1: and he's just totally crazy and and kind of fits

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Speaker 1: what we've just learned here in the podcast. There you go.

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Speaker 1: So though he has a pretty intimidating nickname, this next

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Speaker 1: gangster on our list may have been one of the

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Speaker 1: least tough and scary of all the ones we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about He was born George Kelly Barnes in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety five eighteen ninety seven. Sources kind of different

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Speaker 1: on that in Memphis, Tennessee, and he became known later

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Speaker 1: as machine Gun Kelly, but he actually started out his

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Speaker 1: life of crime as a common bootlegger. He started going

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Speaker 1: by the alias of George R. Kelly and his bootlegging

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Speaker 1: days supposedly to preserve his family name, and that was

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Speaker 1: a good thing too, because he did end up serving

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Speaker 1: some jail time. He spent a year in leve and

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Speaker 1: Worth in Kansas around nineteen twenty seven or so after

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Speaker 1: he was caught selling liquor on an Indian reservation. So

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Speaker 1: when he got out of prison, Kelly went back to

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Speaker 1: bootlegging and was involved in some hold ups thanks to

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Speaker 1: these bank robber contacts that he'd made in prison. But

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Speaker 1: really at that point he was still a pretty small

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Speaker 1: time criminal. It's after he met his second wife, Katherine Thorne,

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Speaker 1: around nineteen thirty that things really started to change. So

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Speaker 1: Catherine had a bit of a criminal background herself. Her

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Speaker 1: parents ran a fugitive farm in Texas where criminals could

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Speaker 1: pay by the night to hide out from the law.

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Speaker 1: This was news to me that such a thing existed,

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Speaker 1: a fugitive farm. It's like a B and B for

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Speaker 1: con convicts. Um. But Katherine herself had also been arrested

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Speaker 1: for various crimes, and she really had bigger ambitions for

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Speaker 1: her husband than for him to just be a common bootlegger.

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Speaker 1: She wanted him to be a real criminal. And so

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Speaker 1: a lot of historians think it's Catherine that created the

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Speaker 1: whole machine gun Kelly persona. And she's also said to

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Speaker 1: have been the first one who bought George a Thompson

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Speaker 1: machine gun and made him practice with it, and um

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Speaker 1: made him, made him kind of talk to other criminals,

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Speaker 1: and would talk him up herself to criminals that they knew. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think she was the first to kind of throw

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Speaker 1: that machine gun Kelly thing around, just visiting places, you know,

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Speaker 1: bars at night and there my husband machine gun Kelly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he became fairly proficient with the machine gun, and

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Speaker 1: he carried it with him on jobs. But apparently there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence that machine gun Kelly ever actually fired a

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Speaker 1: machine gun at a person or killed anyone with it.

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Speaker 1: I think the name alone really does the trick. I

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Speaker 1: think it does. It's intimidation works wonders. So they pulled

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Speaker 1: off a few bank jobs, but again pretty small time stuff.

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Speaker 1: The payoff wasn't that great, so in three they decided

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Speaker 1: to try their hands at kidnapping, and they picked Charles Erschel,

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Speaker 1: a wealthy oil tycoon, as their target. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the smoothest crime ever. They made some mistakes kind of

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Speaker 1: right off the bat. First stoff, they didn't know what

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Speaker 1: Herschel looked like, so they burst in on Erschel and

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Speaker 1: his wife and another couple, the Jarrett's, while they were

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Speaker 1: playing bridge on July twenty two, ninety three. But since

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Speaker 1: they couldn't figure out who Herschel was and no one

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Speaker 1: in the room would help him out, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: asked around, but no one was willing to say, so

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Speaker 1: they ended up taking both men and they finally found

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Speaker 1: some idea on Jarrett after they were on the road,

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Speaker 1: and then stole fifty dollars from them and kicked him

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Speaker 1: out of the car and machine gun. Kelly and company

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Speaker 1: asked for a two hundred thousand dollar ransom, which they

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Speaker 1: did collect nine days after the kidnapping. They released Herschel unharmed,

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Speaker 1: and George and Catherine Kelly split the ransom money with

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Speaker 1: their accomplices and then went off on their own. They

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Speaker 1: dyed their hair, they switched locations a lot to try

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Speaker 1: to throw the authorities off their scent, but they kept Chicago.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of their home base and whenever they were

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Speaker 1: back in Chicago. They lived a very lavish lifestyle during

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Speaker 1: that time and it only took the FBI a couple

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Speaker 1: of months to catch up up with them. For one thing,

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Speaker 1: they had recorded the serial numbers of the ransom money,

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Speaker 1: so that helped. Also, Herschel was a pretty smart guy,

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Speaker 1: and even though he was blindfolded during the entire ordeal,

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Speaker 1: he was able to recall a lot of details and

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Speaker 1: share them with the authority. So he remembered like the

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Speaker 1: sounds of men and women talking, and he would record

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Speaker 1: the number of footsteps that he would make from one

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Speaker 1: place to another and report those details. That really helped

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Speaker 1: a lot later and figuring the whole thing out. And

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Speaker 1: it I mean it did help because machine Gun Kelly

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Speaker 1: and Katherine were caught the morning of September twenty, nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three, in Memphis, where they were hiding out with

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Speaker 1: some friends. They were both really hungover at the time,

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Speaker 1: and legend has it that that morning, after they were

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Speaker 1: surrounded by the authorities, Kelly cried out, quote, don't shoot.

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Speaker 1: G men, don't shoot, and thus coined the term g

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Speaker 1: men to refer to government agents. According to the FBI,

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Speaker 1: this probably didn't really happen, and it's more likely the

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Speaker 1: result of faulty or parting, but still a pretty good story.

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Speaker 1: I have always wondered who first thought of that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so legend has it that that's where that came from,

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Speaker 1: but maybe not, who knows. In October of that year,

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Speaker 1: George and Catherine Kelly were both convicted and sentenced to

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Speaker 1: life in prison. So machine Gun Kelly spent the rest

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Speaker 1: of his life at Alcatraz and at Love and Worth,

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Speaker 1: where he died of a heart attack in July of

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, and Catherine was actually released in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty eight and ended up living out her days in Oklahoma.

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Speaker 1: I think there you go. And interestingly enough, the next

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Speaker 1: guy on our list also has the same name, machine Gun,

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Speaker 1: although in this case it is Jack mcgern machine Gun

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Speaker 1: Jack mcgern. And we've talked about this gangster before in

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Speaker 1: the St. Valentine's Day massacre episode, and in fact he's

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Speaker 1: considered by many people to be the one who orchestrated

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Speaker 1: the whole Saint Valentine's Day massacre for Capone. If you

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Speaker 1: heard that episode, you'll remember that mcgern claimed he'd been

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Speaker 1: in bed all morning. This girlfriend, a blonde named Louise Rolf,

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Speaker 1: who became known famously as the Blonde Alibi and machine

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Speaker 1: Gun Jack, was never brought to trial for that crime.

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Speaker 1: But mcgern had an interesting career before that point too.

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Speaker 1: He was born James Vincenzo de Mora in Chicago's Little

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Speaker 1: Italy neighborhood in nineteen o four, and in his teenage

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Speaker 1: years he was a boxer under the name Battling Jack mcgern.

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Speaker 1: He should promise at that time as a welterweight. His

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Speaker 1: career the boxer kind of changed course though, in NT three,

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Speaker 1: when his father, who was a grocer, was murdered by

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Speaker 1: a gang known as the Jenna Gang. That's Jenna with

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Speaker 1: a G. And after that mcgern quit boxing and turned

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Speaker 1: full time to getting revenge for his father's death. He

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Speaker 1: taught himself how to shoot a weapon. He went to

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Speaker 1: work for al Capone, who was still at this point

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Speaker 1: getting established, but also still at this point the Jenna

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Speaker 1: gang's main rival. Because mcgern had this vendetta fuelling him

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Speaker 1: and he was getting pretty handy with a gun, Poe

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Speaker 1: sent him after the Jennat gangs guys. So mcgern ended

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Speaker 1: up killing six of their gang members within a few weeks.

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Speaker 1: And each time he killed a guy, he'd put a

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Speaker 1: nickel in that guy's lifeless hand, And this was supposedly

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Speaker 1: a reference to how the people who had killed his

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Speaker 1: father had called him a quote nickel and dimer. So

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Speaker 1: you'd think that a guy obsessed with revenge like this

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Speaker 1: would be really rough around the edges, right, But mcgern

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Speaker 1: actually loved the finer things in life. He loved to

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Speaker 1: dress up in swanky clothes and slick his hair back,

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Speaker 1: and he used the money that he made working for

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Speaker 1: Capone to invest in jazz joints. But sometimes he let

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Speaker 1: his gangster ways kind of bleed into those other businesses.

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Speaker 1: There's a good example of this involving a popular comedian

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Speaker 1: named Joe Louis, who had quit working at one of

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Speaker 1: the clubs McGurn partially owned to just move on take

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Speaker 1: a better offer at another club, and ended up becoming

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Speaker 1: a huge hit at that other club, so mcgern has

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Speaker 1: don a few thugs to rough him up teach him

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Speaker 1: a lesson for for jitching his original job. The gang

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Speaker 1: ended up cutting the comedian's tongue and slashing his throat,

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Speaker 1: and it took Lewis a really long time to be

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Speaker 1: able to talk again, in a whole decade to get

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Speaker 1: back to his comedy career. Even by Capone standards, this

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Speaker 1: treatment was pretty harsh. After the incident, Capone gave Lewis

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Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars to help with his recovery. Another interesting

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Speaker 1: side note about mcgern was that he was an avid golfer.

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Speaker 1: He'd played with Capone and was actually a quite bit

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Speaker 1: better than his boss. I imagine you'd have to be

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Speaker 1: careful with Yeah, I'd be worried about that, but he was.

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Speaker 1: We've seen the untouchables. We know what Capone can do

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Speaker 1: with a baseball bat. It would probably be similar with

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Speaker 1: a golf club. So Jack was so good that three

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Speaker 1: he was able to enter the Western Open at Olympia

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Speaker 1: Fields under his original name. He did poorly though in

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Speaker 1: the first round, but did better the next day. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: for him, though, a municipal judge had issued a warrant

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Speaker 1: for his arrest, and detectives recognized his name while reading

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Speaker 1: the sports pages, so they knew where he'd be. So

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Speaker 1: he was arrested approaching the seventh Green one under par

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Speaker 1: He was apparently very polite, you know, with civil with officers,

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Speaker 1: but asked them could he be allowed to finish his

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Speaker 1: game and they agreed to that. Louise Rolph. Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 1: blonde alibi, who was by this point mcgurn's wife, asked

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Speaker 1: the policeman, who's brilliant idea with this? So I can

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Speaker 1: really just see this pretty vividly. So, as we mentioned

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Speaker 1: in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre podcast, mcgurn's career went

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Speaker 1: downhill after Capone went to jail, and he ended up

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Speaker 1: becoming a small time drug dealer, eventually getting gunned down

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Speaker 1: in a bowling alley. McGurn has also been a supporting

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Speaker 1: character in several gangster movies, including one in which the

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Speaker 1: whole Joe E Lewis thing is recounted, and that's the

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Speaker 1: ninety seven movie called The Jokers Wild with Frank Sinatra.

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Speaker 1: So for our next entry, we're going to stick with

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Speaker 1: the Capone gang and move on to Frank the enforcer Needy.

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Speaker 1: So Frank Canedi was born around in Naples, and when

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Speaker 1: he moved to the States, he started work as a barber,

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Speaker 1: making all these contacts in the underworld and expanding his

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Speaker 1: business eventually to flee stolen goods. And it's this way

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Speaker 1: that he eventually hooked up with Al Capone's gang during

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Speaker 1: Prohibition and eventually rose to the position of one of

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Speaker 1: Capone's top organizers or enforcers. So both Needy and Capone

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Speaker 1: eventually got prison sentences for income tax evasion, but Needy

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Speaker 1: served a much shorter term. When he got out of prison,

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Speaker 1: he became the de facto head of the Capone mob.

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Speaker 1: According to the Mafia Encyclopedia by Karl Stefakis, Needy wasn't

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Speaker 1: really the mob's leader, there were too many loose cannons

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Speaker 1: with allegiances only too Capone, but he was sort of

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Speaker 1: the frontman, focusing the attention of both the authorities and

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Speaker 1: the media. And it must have been an effective public

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Speaker 1: stance because in nineteen thirty two he was shot by

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Speaker 1: two police officers supposedly acting under the orders of Chicago's Nair,

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Speaker 1: who at this point wanted to since Capone was in

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Speaker 1: prison bust up his empire a little bit and distribute

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Speaker 1: the territory among other crooks who were maybe a little

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Speaker 1: more willing to to make different alliances than Capon's men were.

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Speaker 1: But Needy recovered from that attack. He was pretty near

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Speaker 1: death in fact, and eventually got caught up in a

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Speaker 1: racket against these Hollywood production companies like Warner Brothers and

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Speaker 1: twentieth Century Fox, and in March of nineteen forty three,

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Speaker 1: he was accused of attempted extortion of one million dollars

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Speaker 1: from various production companies under the threat of union trouble,

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Speaker 1: which sounds ominous coming from um Capone, a Capone mobster,

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Speaker 1: but Needy at this point his position as the public

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Speaker 1: face of the mob men that he was going to

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Speaker 1: have to take the fall for all the other guys involved,

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Speaker 1: and he was pressured to do so, but was not

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Speaker 1: interested in it due to his earlier prison sentence. He

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Speaker 1: had not had a good time in jail, and so

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Speaker 1: hours before the New York Federal grand jury indicted him

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Speaker 1: on the extortion charges, he committed suicide. In two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: his Riverside home was rejected for a preservation status. One

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Speaker 1: of the petition supporters said that the unassuming nature of

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Speaker 1: his house was what really made it worth preserving, and

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Speaker 1: said quote, he probably had the money to build a

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Speaker 1: bigger house and riverside. And just one more note on Needys,

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Speaker 1: since we are sort of mentioning movies and TV shows

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Speaker 1: and all of that, he's almost a character who's bigger

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Speaker 1: in fiction than in real life. He a couple of

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Speaker 1: these are He apparently had a major role on the

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Speaker 1: old television show The Intouchables and a very memorable role

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Speaker 1: in the movie Intouchables, which I just mentioned in the

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Speaker 1: last entry. So we have one a bit more guy

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Speaker 1: and this is not a member of the Capone mob.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he is an arch rival. Yeah, we mentioned

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Speaker 1: that Frank Needy was kind of the Capone chief in

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Speaker 1: name only, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't sometimes

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Speaker 1: brutally effective. In the case of our next entry, Roger

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Speaker 1: the Terrible Twoey, Needy's power proved there was more than

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Speaker 1: one way to eliminate a gangster. So too, we had

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00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: been born in Chicago, one of six sons of a

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Speaker 1: patrolman and the younger two. We eventually became a gambling

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Speaker 1: boss and a bootlegger with Twoey territory extending through the

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Speaker 1: northwest section of Cook County, Illinois, which is the Chicago area.

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Speaker 1: But by four his gang was going through some tough times.

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Speaker 1: Three key members were dead and eleven others, including Twoey himself.

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Speaker 1: We're serving hard time no thanks to Capone's man, Frank Needy.

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Speaker 1: So here's what happened to We had been convicted in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four of kidnapping John Factor a K. Jake,

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Speaker 1: the barber who is the brother of cosmetics founder Max

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Speaker 1: Factor Senior. The only catch, though, is that John Factor,

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Speaker 1: who at this point was wanted in England and had

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Speaker 1: been trying to avoid being extradited there, hadn't ever really

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Speaker 1: been kidnapped. He had instead conspired with Needy. He was

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Speaker 1: connected to the Capone gang and uh faked his own

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Speaker 1: kidnapping in order to frame Tooey, who was accused of

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Speaker 1: it and sentenced to a hundred nine nine years and

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Speaker 1: InCAR serrated at Stateville Penitentiary in Juliet, Illinois. In prison, however,

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Speaker 1: to be connected with a friend from the outside, Basil

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Speaker 1: the Owl Banghart, and the two started planning an escape.

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Speaker 1: I think that might be the best mob name in

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Speaker 1: this episode. And there's a lot of stiff competition, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. So after years of observation, they had guns

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Speaker 1: smuggled in through an American flag of all things, and

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Speaker 1: recruited a few more folks who were willing to risk

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Speaker 1: an escape. So on October nine, to be kicked off

378
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: the brake by attacking a prison garbage truck driver, stealing

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Speaker 1: the truck and driving it to the mechanical shop, where

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Speaker 1: the rest of the gang rendezvood, overpowering the guards using

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Speaker 1: the two forty fives and a Molotov cocktail. They stole

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Speaker 1: ladders and took two hostages and got some rope, and

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Speaker 1: so from there they drove to the guard tower, attacked

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Speaker 1: the tower, scaled the tower with the ladders by the way,

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Speaker 1: attacked the guard, stole his car, keys, the rifles, a

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Speaker 1: few other forty fives that were in the tower, and

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Speaker 1: then um went out the other side of the wall

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Speaker 1: and drove towards Chicago, abandoning their car in a really

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Speaker 1: conspicuous location so the FBI wouldn't get involved over them

390
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Speaker 1: having cross state lines with a stolen vehicle. They did

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Speaker 1: not want the FBI on their case. Little did they know, however,

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Speaker 1: the FBI had a loophole through which they could intervene

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Speaker 1: on the outside. The men obviously hadn't registered this remember,

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Speaker 1: and the men had not registered under the Selective Service law,

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Speaker 1: and therefore they were draft delinquent. So Hoover himself used

396
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Speaker 1: this loophole and took charge of the case personally. Basically,

397
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Speaker 1: it was a Dillinger Round two for him. So Towie

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Speaker 1: and the gang led by bang Hart managed to survive

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Speaker 1: on the outside for a few months by sticking together

400
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Speaker 1: for the most part, since Banghart wanted zero outside contact

401
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: until they could pull off a big job and spring

402
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: for plastic surgery and fingerprint alteration. We touched on that

403
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: a little bit when talking about Dillinger too. So there

404
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: were really tight quarters in this situation and strict rules

405
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Speaker 1: no alcohol, and everyone was pretty paranoid. Every time one

406
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Speaker 1: of the gang left to go buy food and provisions,

407
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Speaker 1: bang Heart followed behind with a sawed off shotgun as protection,

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Speaker 1: but presumably since Banghart was the leader, kind of like

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Speaker 1: I'm watching your bag to Eventually, all of this paranoia

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Speaker 1: took its toll and the group began to split and crumble.

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Speaker 1: I think bang Haart pistol whipped a couple of the guys,

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Speaker 1: and Hoover meanwhile got a lead by searching the names

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Speaker 1: of mugging victims in the Chicago area who had had

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Speaker 1: their draft cards stolen, figuring that these fugitives really needed

415
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Speaker 1: to get a hold of information like that, some kind

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Speaker 1: of identifying information, and that these um mugging victims would

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Speaker 1: be the most likely aliases for the fugitives to use.

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Speaker 1: And finally Hoover did find a gang member and arrested

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Speaker 1: Twey and bang Hart personally. After all the connections were

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Speaker 1: revealed through surveillance, so Too went back to prison, but

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00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: continued his appeals process. Eventually, federal courts accepted that the

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00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: kidnapping had never happened and released two on November nine.

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Speaker 1: He was shot dead in front of his sister's home

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Speaker 1: just weeks later, though, having just come out with an

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Speaker 1: autobiography called The Stolen Years, and he really had a

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Speaker 1: bad time in prison, he said of his imprisonment quote,

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Speaker 1: I was buried alive nothing but darkness, loneliness, and desperation.

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Speaker 1: So that's a different kind of note to end a

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Speaker 1: podcast on gangsters. I'd say it's not all um. Shoot

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00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: him up, going down in a hail of gunfire. It's

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00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,239
Speaker 1: the pretty sad story, right. Well, some would say that's

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Speaker 1: what they deserve, I guess, depending on your point of view.

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Speaker 1: So that does it for this podcast on gangsters. Of course,

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00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: we're not done with gangsters by any means. We focus

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00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: mostly on Chicago based people this time. Of course, there

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00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 1: are gangsters all over the country in the world that

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00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: we talked about yet, and there are plenty of stories

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00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 1: to tell, so you can expect more on that in

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00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: the future. For now that we're going to move on

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00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: to a listener mail. Since we're talking about gangsters, we

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00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: wanted to correct the record for the Dillinger podcast. We

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00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: had a few people right in from Ohio, UM, including

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Speaker 1: Carrie Well. I don't know if she's from Ohio, but

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00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: she knows Ohio apparently, because she wrote to tell us

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00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: that when we were referring to Lima, Ohio it's pronounced

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00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: with a long eye, because I think we said Lima

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00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: in the podcast, yes, like Peru. So thank you Carrie

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00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: for writing in, and thank you to all the people

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00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: who wrote in, and um wrote to us on Facebook

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Speaker 1: about that, so now we know. And I also thought

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00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: this was fitting. We got a Christmas present from Hillary,

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00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: and she sent us assassination vacations, So maybe we're going

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00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 1: to have some more um murderous type episodes coming up

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Speaker 1: in the new year. People seem to like those, I

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00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: mean maybe laugh but so well popular. We'll check that

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00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: out and thank you Hillary. She also gave an interesting suggestion.

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00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: She I thought that an episode on like college Secret

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00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: Society weird college traditions would be interesting, and had mentioned

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00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: a few at her own school, but people have suggested

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00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: spellen bones before that sort of thing that would be

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00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: interesting collegiate themed episode in addition to all these gangsters. Well,

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00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: if you have any more suggestions like that to send us,

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00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, you can always write us at History Podcast

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00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: at House staff Works dot com, or you can look

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00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: us up on Facebook or we're on Twitter at Myston History.

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00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: And we also have a great image gallery on Public

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00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: Enemy if you can find that by searching our home

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00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: page for Public Enemy at www dot house staff Works

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00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast,

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00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: Stuff from the Future. Join how staff Work staff as

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00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.

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00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: The House stuff Works iPhone app has a ride download

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00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: it Today on iTunes,