WEBVTT - Lots More with Kyla Scanlon on the Economic Vibes 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.600 Tracy, do you think that the reason it's so hard 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:15.440 to buy house it's because of black Rock is buying 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:15.680 all that? 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:21.239 There's a loaded question that's like, what's that famous loaded question? 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.880 Maybe this is more well known in Britain, but the 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.800 when did you start beating your wife? Okay, okay, it's 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:29.720 a little different, Yeah, a little different. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.360 When did you stop by the way, Oh I'm sorry. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:37.879 Yeah, okay, yes, that makes oh dear, this conversation has 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:38.920 already gone off the rails. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.520 I did a deadlift one, Jimmy. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.639 Okay, uh barges. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.880 This isn't after school Special, except I've. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:53.479 Decided I'm going to base my entire personality going forward 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.360 on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:58.200 Where's the best posta? 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.320 These are the important questions robots taking over the world. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.240 No, I think that like in a couple of years, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.720 the AI will do a really good job of making 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.880 the Odd Lots podcast and people to say, I don't 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.960 really need to listen to Joe and Tracy anymore. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.839 We do have touching the perfect. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.920 You're listening to Lots more where we catch up with 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.720 friends about what's going on right now, because. 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.479 Even when the odd lots is over, there's always lots more. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.880 And we really do have the perfect guest. Didn't we 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.080 learn that big factoid, that really interesting factoid in one 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:38.080 of our conversations that actually the single family institutional ownership 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:43.720 includes like individual landlords in addition to huge firms like Blackrock. 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.960 I just feel like, this is what I think about 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.240 all the time, TikTok macro, which is like Blackrock is 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.440 controlling all of the market. No, sorry, Blackrock is controlling 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.040 all the market. Blackstone is why you can't buy a house. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.960 All people in Congress are insider traders. What else is there? 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:10.000 What else is there, Kyla in terms of TikTok and yeah, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.040 like what are like the sort of like pillars of 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.360 like modern beliefs about how the public that? 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.399 Yeah, I mean it's always the system is working against you, right, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.560 I mean, I think there's so many misbeliefs about the economy. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:25.079 It was just it makes it really hard to talk 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.360 about the economy. Like inflation going down doesn't mean that 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.079 prices are going I think that's a really big one. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.520 And then the black Rock thing really takes hold. That's 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:33.760 very fair that's like a. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.120 Big pillar of like how yeah, people see problems with 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:37.680 the economy. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.160 Yeah, like ETFs in the world, ETFs in the world. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.320 There's a lot, I should say. We are speaking with 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.640 Kyla Scanlon, our good friend who has just published a 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.680 new book called Fittingly. I have to say I love 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.519 this title in this Economy, How Money and Markets Really Work. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.400 She's also a Bloomberg Opinion contributor. She's been on the 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.600 podcast before, and congrats on the book. Kylo. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.520 Thank you. Yeah, it's super exciting. 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.800 Thank you for coming to chat with us. Oh no, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.960 thank you all for also the creator of the word 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.040 vibe session. Yeah, just like become it is, but it 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.519 is you right, like you said it first. Yeah. No, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.600 now everyone says it and I was like, oh, people, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.040 JP were good. I saw that this is a vibe session. 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.480 But you created Yeah no, I did back in July 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.000 twenty twenty two. But yeah, I know other people have 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.000 taken cudit for it, which is fine. You know, No, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.040 it's not fun, it's not it's just how. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.959 But this is sort of the amazing thing about the 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.000 vibe session because when you first wrote about it, it 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.600 was because the hard data was still coming in relatively strong, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.760 but all the survey data, people seemed to really really 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.160 down beat on the economy. And now a couple of 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.880 years later that's still the case more or less. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.240 Yeah, people are still feeling really bad. I mean, I 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.040 think about the Harris Guardian poll which was like fifty 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.040 five percent of people think that or fifty six percent. Yeah, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.480 people think that we're in ocession. Forty nine percent of 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.520 people think the stock market is down, forty nine percent 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.560 of people think unemployments at a record And it's like, man, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.120 you know, there's an element of the vibe session that 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.240 is structural affordability issues right, like husting, crisis, elder care, childcare. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.520 But then there is an element of the vibe session 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.680 which is media right and TikTok as we were talking 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.880 about with like the black rockets, yeah, and how it's 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.120 buying up single family homes apparently, but yeah, it's complicated. 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.480 Where do you think this comes from? So this sort 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.520 of I don't know, people talk about trust and this 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.960 sort of you know, people just not believing things that 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.360 are objective facts, the sort of deep skepticism or typathy 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.560 maybe towards large institutions or conspiratorial beliefs like where do 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.360 you think is it like a social media thing, Like 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:38.320 what do you think it's all about? 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.760 Yeah, I mean I think a lot of it's information overload, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:42.680 like we just have way too much going on all 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.560 of the time, and I don't think we're kind of 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.880 built to process all of that. And then just the 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.440 framing of things really can be impactful. Like if a 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.640 media headline is negative, that increases the click through rate 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.080 by two point three percent, if it's positive, it decreases 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.040 it by one point nine percent. So the incentives are 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.479 very clear there. But I also think you know, if 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.200 you're not free out, it means that you don't care. 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.960 And so I think the overall idea is that you 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.480 have to be like anxious and worried, and there are 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.280 things be anxious and worried about. But I think it's 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.200 exacerbated by the way that we engage with one another online. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.240 What sort of engagement do you see on a platform 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.039 like TikTok, Because I feel like I'm not on TikTok, 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.760 but I am on Twitter, slash x And one rule 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.159 of social media seems to be if you say something 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.200 negative about the economy, it's almost guaranteed to get more 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:37.120 retweets and engagement than something that's positive or nuanced or educational. 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.000 Is that something that you experienced as well? 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.919 Yeah, I mean, I think the whole thing is doumerism 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.040 can absolutely take over. Dumers sound really smart, like if 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.120 you're like the world's ending, everyone's like that guy knows 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.680 what he's saying. And I think that that is just 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.080 a great way to sell a newsletter. And so you 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.920 see a lot of people selling newsletters by selling a narrative. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.440 And I think it's the same on TikTok, like all 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.479 the algorithmic incentives are for you to post very negatively, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.720 and it's hard as a creator because you know that. 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.560 But there's one of my favorite sayings right now is 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.760 nuance doesn't sell. And I think that's a big part 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.240 of what we see on social media is people feel 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.680 like they have to take a clear side on what 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:16.560 they're talking about. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.200 By the way, I see your book in This Economy 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:25.000 number one bestseller in the Business Encyclopedia. The number two 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.960 is the audiobook version, and then three and four are 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.279 both Robert's Rules of Orders, and then five is again 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.479 is the Kindle. So congratulations on your absolute dominance of 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.000 the business Encyclopedia's category on Amazon. 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.240 Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, it's funny what they 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.360 end up categorizing you on on Amazon. It's also doing 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.919 well in the money and Monetary policy section, which is fun. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.480 but I didn't know it was a business encyclopedia, so 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:51.120 it's good to. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:51.800 Know that it is. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.279 That's very cool. What was one of the things that 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.360 you sort of learned through writing the book? So I 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.120 was flipping through it, and first of all, I love 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.800 the little cartoons and the drawings and the diagrams. They're very, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.760 very sweet and also very illustrative of some of the 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.400 points that you're trying to make. But I'm curious, is 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.760 there one thing that sort of stood out to you 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.280 when you were researching the book? 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:14.480 Oh? 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.720 Yeah, I mean I think that for me, like there 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.880 was two things, right, like how do you structure a book? 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.480 And then what should a book be about? 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.840 And this is important for me and Tracy, by the way, 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.520 because every once in a while we talk about writing 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.120 a book. Yeah, and we're not we're close, so we're 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.200 going to listen very intensely to learn how it's done. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.240 Well, this is how I did. I don't know what 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.640 it's done. But yeah, I learned. You know, you have 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.200 to have a flow to a book in the structure, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.840 it really matters. Even though each chapter can be read separately, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.240 you kind of have to tell a narrative throughout it. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.920 And that's a little bit difficult with something as big 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:44.560 as the economy. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.400 Right because your book is quite wide ranging. Yeah, it's 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:50.840 basically everything that you find interesting about markets and the economy. 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.120 Yeah. No, And I rewrote it three times, so the 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.120 structure of the book was it was a big one. 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.600 And then I think too, like I spend a lot 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.680 of time trying to understand the history of the economy 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.240 because I felt like that was really important to include 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.640 in some of the beginning chapters, like how did we 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.440 get here? And so the beginning of the book is 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.280 kind of like the teap history of the economy, the 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:13.160 economic kingdom, so the Federal Reserve Castle, the Monechechy policy Castle, 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.040 the fiscal policy inflation. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.320 Just like the inflation pizza by the Yeah. 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:20.560 Yeah, and all the diagrams are meant to sort of 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.800 guide people throughout the book. And I guess it's like 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.200 the biggest lesson learned for like writing an Econ book, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.600 And it was an interesting lesson to learn as the 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.840 structure really matters, and how you guide people through something 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.160 as harry and confusing and big as the economy is important. 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.400 You say, people don't click on nuanced. They don't click, 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.640 and yet you're into nuance yourself, and so like, as 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.600 someone who has been a successful financial system educator and 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.120 now a successful author, it's apparently possible. It's apparently possible 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:53.840 to be successful and nuanced. 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.080 At the sometime. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it totally is. 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.920 I just think it's much easier to be zumeristic. Yeah, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.360 and so I think it's super important to have nuanced 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.840 because as with the economy is all about you know, 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.840 everything has an opposite and equal reaction, and it's the 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.280 same in the economy. But I think it's just easier 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:10.560 to tell lies. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.520 Tracy the last So my last job, like about ten 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.080 years ago Business Insider, I sort of wrote my last 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.720 post there was about why I really like covering markets, 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.800 Like I sort of thought about the blind men touching 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.960 the elephant, except the elephant keeps moving. So not only 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.280 do you never really get the full picture, like at 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.439 any given time, by the time you think you're getting 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.880 the full picture, it's like there's still there's another way. 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.400 The elephant is already involved into a new species. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.120 It's not easy, but you know, you know what I think, Well, 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.480 I'm not an authority on this subject by any means, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.560 but you know what I think the solution is to 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:48.640 nuance is like comedy and entertainment in some respects. And 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.199 that's kind of what you've been doing on TikTok, right, 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.239 Like you make informational videos, but they're fun and engaging 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.000 to watch, and so you can still provide nuance, but 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.440 you still come out the attention of the audience because 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:02.320 they want to watch them. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.079 Yeah. Yeah, that's the goal with like making, and that's 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.280 why the book has illustrations too. It's like, if you 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.800 make things fun, people are more likely to pay attention. 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.360 It's like a game of human behavior, right, And so yeah, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.199 if you can like tell jokes about things that are 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.400 inherently kind of funny, like a lot of stuff in 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.680 the economy, even though some parts of it are very serious, 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.440 like unemployment and inflation, Like some parts of it you 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.800 can have fun with. And I try to do that 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.520 as much as I can, because I think that's how 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.680 you engage people. People who think they're outside of the economy, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:42.240 within economics education, you know what. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:47.920 I don't know, how did you realize what your career was? Oh? Yeah, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.360 like you know, it's like, you know, you people tweet 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.760 and people post, and then suddenly it's like, oh, like 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.640 people listen, and this is what I do now, Like 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.439 it took me. It was not until a couple of 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.760 years of being a journalist that I realized like, oh, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.600 I guess this is what I'm gonna be journalists. Like, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.120 at what point did you realize that this is what 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:03.400 you do? 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.199 It was really around GameStop is kind of when the 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.079 video started, and then I spent probably six months being 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:11.760 like I don't know what's happening, and I was just 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:14.240 making these videos and I didn't know if anything would work. 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.120 And then I kept on writing my newsletter and then 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.120 in July twenty twenty two, the Vibe session kind of 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.079 took off. And I think that was kind of when 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.880 I was like, oh, okay, I'm saying things and people 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.440 are listening. And I had the New York Times opinion piece, 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.200 which was really awesome, and that's kind of when I 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.600 was like, oh, okay, wow, whoops. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.080 You know, so, why do you think vibe session took 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.480 off as a term. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.200 I think people were just really like or this has 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.720 been feedback though people have given me. I think people 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.640 were just looking for something to explain this discrepancy between 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.640 consumer sentiment and economic data. Like so many of my 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.400 conversations are about why do people feel the way that 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.360 they do, And I think the vib session word was 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.320 at least a step in the direction of addressing, you know, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.920 why there is such a big gap and why people 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.360 were a little bit worried about why that gap existed. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.840 Neither Tracy and I are on TikTok. Are we like 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.360 at risk of just becoming completely irrelevant? Like I don't 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.760 even use reels. All I do is like do the 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.880 podcast and post tweets and stuff. How separated am I 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.559 from actually the real world of where people, actual people 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:18.439 are actually getting there? 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.000 I don't know TikTok is the real world. But yeah, 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.199 I mean, I think TikTok is at risk of being 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:24.760 banned in the United States, but. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.559 I don't I'm biased, but that you know, it's like, Okay. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.280 Well that that's fine with you, That's. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.200 Fine with me. There's level of the playing field for 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.160 me because I'm so far behind. No, But I have 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:34.880 no opinion on this. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.720 But no, a lot of young people do get their 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.360 news from social media, and that's why I made my 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.280 videos on social media. It was because I was like, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.080 this is where people are. They need information about the 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.600 economy where they are, and so that's what I set 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.079 out to do. But yeah, it's it's definitely where people 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:51.880 It's like the watering hole of the Internet in a 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.600 big way, but not like Twitter. Twitter is a little 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.640 bit different. It's very direct on Twitter. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.240 You know who I blame for TikTok thing massive hole 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.000 in our consciousness show. Ironically, I kind of blame samro 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.240 because he amalgamates the best of TikTok and then posts 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.840 it on Instagram, which means I never have to go 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.200 on TikTok because he just does all the aggregation. Yeah, 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.880 it's a public service for sure, Kyla. I want to 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.320 talk more about like the Vibe session and where we 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.600 are in the economy now. But so inflation has been 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.479 coming down a little bit, and yet the sentiment surveys 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.040 are still coming in pretty I mean I'm generalizing here, Yeah, 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.680 they're bad. If this is a structural problem with some 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.560 of the surveys, if people are too polarized because of 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.840 the media, or if people are reflecting on the longer 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.240 term outlook and just thinking I'm never going to be 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.280 able to buy a house, or I'm never going to 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.880 be able to retire, and that's feeding into some of 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.000 the shorter term responses. Is this discrepancy ever going to 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.040 go away or is this something that we and economists 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.400 are going to have to learn to accept and kind 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.120 of analyze and digest. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.080 Yeah, that's something I've been wrestling with quite a bit 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.559 ever since the Hairst Guardian. And you've got to take 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.800 all surveys with the grain of salt. But ever since 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.160 the Hairris Guardian survey came out where it was about 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.280 more than just vibes, like it was a clear disconnect 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.040 from reality, right, Like it was like, we're not believing 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.960 in truth, which is stock markets up, on employments, styllars, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.080 we're not in a recession. I do think that because 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.720 of information being a playing field for foreign adversaries, that 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.520 there is more and more of an incentive to push 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.520 consumer sentiment down. People are getting their information from all 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.080 sorts of disparate sources, and so there really isn't a 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.480 cohesive way to consume information, like how you know we 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.360 used to when it was just like one cable TV show. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.080 So I do think that sentiment will be impacted just 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.360 because of the way that we get our information now 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.840 is so confusing. But I am very optimistic that it'll improve, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.920 but I'm not sure yet how it will. I think 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.520 it has something to do with transparency and trust and 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.600 rebuilding that. But that is a big project to undertake. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.680 It seems like a really big project. Why can't everyone 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.520 just do what I do? Was just fire up the 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.200 Bloomberg terminal type out top and look at the most 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.320 credible selection of news stories related to business in the world. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.280 It's easy. I never get any misinformation. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.640 I know, don't respond. I've learned the best thing to 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:28.440 do is just don't respond to you. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.160 And then you have your information. Fire hose Alt. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.440 There's this crazy statistic about and I say that, and 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.480 it sort of refused what I'm just saying about media 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.960 being a way that people will get confused. Is like, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.720 the average American spends like five minutes a month on 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.120 the top twenty five news sites, so people are really 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.640 just scrolling headlines, and so I think it's like all 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:50.560 of these things, and also I think the decline of 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.040 local papers. Everything has become very big and national and 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.440 algorithmically designed, which sounds very dumor of me, but I 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.359 think we're in a weird weird there's so much uncertainty 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.120 going into the election too. I think it's just going 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:04.360 to be a funky a few months. 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.360 What's your creative process like for creating the TikTok videos? 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.960 And I have to say at this point, sometimes when 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:16.280 I'm imagining, like the FOMC meeting around like a big 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.200 table in a poort room, I sometimes have visions of 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.480 like talking to yourself the way you do from like 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.400 different camera angles, and Jerome Powell going, I think we 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.960 should do this, and then Kyla response like, no, we 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.960 should do this anyway. That's just me. 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.920 That's so funny. Yeah, the creative process is kind of 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.080 like whatever I'm into that day on it. I get 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.640 a lot of inspiration from other videos, all sorts of 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.560 like movie makers and video creators, and that is how 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.080 the creative process is driven. What I try to do 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.160 is a multidisciplinary approach. So in the book, I have 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.880 a lot of poems in philosophy and literature, and I 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.760 feel like, that's really fun because I feel like with 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.000 economics we kind of stay in one line most of 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.760 the time, which is like money. But you can really 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:00.800 you can have a lot of fun just talking about 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.960 how all this stuff relates to everything else totally. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.600 I mean, I think this is one of the things 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.440 we've learned on odd lots. There are very few topics 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.880 that can't fit in in some way, like some way, Yeah, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.400 you just sort of realized in some way it's all 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.280 business and economics. One of the questions that people ask me, like, well, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.119 what should I read or what should I What do 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.320 you like to consume? What's your other books that you 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.919 like a media diet or like someone said, like I 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.680 want to learn more about the economy or I want 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:31.240 to learn more about markets. What should I read? 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.080 What do you tell people I have a great book 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.840 you can read in this economy. But yeah, I love 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.440 reading books that aren't about the economy but like kind 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.600 of an economics angle. So I'm reading this book called 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.320 Paved Paradise right now, which is very good. It's about 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.439 parking lots and like the history of parking lots, and 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.320 that's been really fun. I feel like that's right up 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:50.080 your guys's alleys. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.280 I single topics are so good. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.480 Yeah, yes, yeah, and then I just finished Cultish, which 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.960 is about like cults and how they started up. And 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.359 then I'm reading The Material World by Ed Conway and 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.280 that's been really fun. Yeah, that's that's a good one. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.960 But yeah, I basically read everything. I read a lot 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.840 of philosophy during the pandemic, which I think a lot 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.399 of people did. And now I'm kind of on this 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.800 like real world kick where I really am obsessed with geology, 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.480 materials and stuff like that and how that can be 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:20.520 applied to the economy. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.680 So you mentioned, you know, things sort of taking off 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.600 for you during game stop, and I think the last 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.360 time we had you on was to talk about meme stocks, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.400 and maybe we did a little bit of crypto then 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.879 as well. But of course in recent weeks we have 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.000 seen the return of some meme stoks, although it seems 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.280 to have kind of gone away relatively quickly. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.000 Recording this, it was up like twenty yesterday. 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.520 Yeah, it was a lot, but like not not quite 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.879 on the scale of the first round of MEMESNIA and 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.440 it's dropped again. But what do you think is happening there? 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:56.120 Why? 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.920 Why does it seem to resonate, you know, even two years. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.080 Yeah, I mean, I think rowing kitty returning probably had 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.000 something to do with it. But you know, one topic 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.200 I've thought a lot about is financial nihilism, So people 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.080