WEBVTT - S1: Ep 1 - No Turning Back

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if you could tell me that story about

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<v Speaker 1>the time that a sister had to go to the

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<v Speaker 1>hospital and he thought, this is going to be my chance.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the sisters she had been in the

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<v Speaker 2>hospital recently and she needed to go back and have

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<v Speaker 2>a checkup. It felt like this opportunity fell from heaven

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<v Speaker 2>into my lap and I would escape.

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<v Speaker 1>Why didn't you just walk out, just tell someone I'm leaving,

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<v Speaker 1>and just walk out the door.

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<v Speaker 2>We always went out two by two. We were never

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<v Speaker 2>allowed just to walk out and do something, so I

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have been able to go, you know, more than

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<v Speaker 2>five or six paces before somebody ran up to me

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<v Speaker 2>and said, where are you going? But I knew, because

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<v Speaker 2>I had been in that hospital and was familiar with it,

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a room where there was a collection

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<v Speaker 2>of clothes that the patients had left behind, So I

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<v Speaker 2>knew where that was. I could find myself some clothes there,

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<v Speaker 2>some normal clothes. I thought, I'll drive in with this

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<v Speaker 2>sister who's ill, and then when we get there, I

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<v Speaker 2>would just leave. I would leave her there, and I

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<v Speaker 2>would have at least a few hours before anybody figured

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<v Speaker 2>out what I'd done. So I took some phone tokens

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<v Speaker 2>and I got in the car and they're in that car.

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<v Speaker 2>On the way to the hospital. I was perspiring. My

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<v Speaker 2>hands were clamming, my heart was raising. It was so hot.

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<v Speaker 2>And as we left the city and we drove towards

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<v Speaker 2>the seashore, there was a breeze and it started just

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<v Speaker 2>to feel really nice, and there were palm trees, and

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<v Speaker 2>there was the sky and you could see the water

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<v Speaker 2>off in the distance. It was like a breath of freedom.

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<v Speaker 3>It was like.

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<v Speaker 2>A way to breathe again. And I just wanted more

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<v Speaker 2>and more of that air, that freedom, that life, that light.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, this is my chance. I just have to

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<v Speaker 2>take it.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a box in Mary Johnson's house, a boxy rarely opens.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I've been talking with you lately about

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<v Speaker 2>all of these things, and so I brought this box

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<v Speaker 2>down from the top of my bookcase because I think

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<v Speaker 2>these things do help me remember better and get back

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<v Speaker 2>into the feeling.

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<v Speaker 1>We all know this box, the one full of memories

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<v Speaker 1>of a version of yourself that with time and experience

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<v Speaker 1>becomes more distant, hard to relate to. But we keep

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<v Speaker 1>these things as proof out of you. It's there in

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<v Speaker 1>case we need reminding. Mary's box holds mementos from twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five years ago, a time when she was devoted to

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<v Speaker 1>a different world, an insular community that asked her to

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<v Speaker 1>separate from her family and her past, to focus her

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<v Speaker 1>life on one thing love.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first, there's this plastic display case like you might

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<v Speaker 2>get some earrings in or something like that, and underneath

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<v Speaker 2>it's just little tiny pieces of Mother Teresa's hair.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, it's probably four strands or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you say, Yeah, that looks like strands, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>arranged in a cross shape.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean it's hair of a saint that you

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<v Speaker 1>have in a box on your bookshelf.

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<v Speaker 2>And it is not only hair of a saint I

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<v Speaker 2>have an box on my bookshelf, but the hair of

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<v Speaker 2>a woman that I knew and had a very complicated

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with.

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Johnson has these strands of hair in her keepsake

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<v Speaker 1>box because in nineteen eighty she made a vow, a

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<v Speaker 1>vow to devote herself to serving the poor and God.

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<v Speaker 1>She became a religious sister with the Missionaries of Charity,

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<v Speaker 1>the Catholic Order formed by Mother Teresa.

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<v Speaker 2>So I did spend a lot more time alone with

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<v Speaker 2>her than most sisters had the opportunity to do. And

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<v Speaker 2>I loved her. I loved her deeply.

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<v Speaker 4>Mother Teresa helping the poorest of the.

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<v Speaker 5>Poor, Revered by popes and presidents, queens and princesses.

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<v Speaker 1>Particularly.

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<v Speaker 4>Anything that's known about her is shouted in mystery and myth.

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<v Speaker 1>Though fiercely private, the small nun in a white and

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<v Speaker 1>blue sorry became an icon, and thousands of women abandoned

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<v Speaker 1>their previous lives to follow her.

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<v Speaker 6>We were to love, be unlovable.

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<v Speaker 2>You feel God is asking you to do something, It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter how hard it is.

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<v Speaker 6>She was so close to God, and you knew it

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<v Speaker 6>when she was there, and everything changed. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard about Mother Teresa when I was a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>She seemed like the ultimate example of selflessness, of someone

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<v Speaker 1>who saw poverty and actually did something about it. She

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like this perfect person with a simple message. But

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<v Speaker 1>the more people I've talked to, the more I've realized

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<v Speaker 1>how little I understood her, how unusual her spirituality actually was,

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<v Speaker 1>how her legacy was filled with controversy, and how thorny

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<v Speaker 1>and complicated her order could be for the people inside it.

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<v Speaker 2>The order was wired that you had very little time to.

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<v Speaker 3>Think you're only getting input from one source, you isolated

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<v Speaker 3>from everyone else.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I mean by Brian washing.

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<v Speaker 1>They become the voice of God for you.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all they keep saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Under your valleve obedience right.

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<v Speaker 2>One doesn't always know where to draw the line between

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<v Speaker 2>religion and cult.

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<v Speaker 1>When Mary was nineteen years old, she dropped out of

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<v Speaker 1>college and joined Mother Teresa's Order of Nuns. There was

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<v Speaker 1>no legal contract, nothing physical that bound her to the group.

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<v Speaker 1>She could leave at anytime, but from the beginning she

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<v Speaker 1>was convinced there was no turning back. As she went deeper,

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<v Speaker 1>she learned more secrets about this way of life. She

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<v Speaker 1>saw vows taken to extremes. She felt the rigidity of rules.

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<v Speaker 1>How separate this society, this culture, this world really was.

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<v Speaker 1>Many former sisters like Mary entered the Order seeking love

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<v Speaker 1>and purpose, only to lose themselves along the way, And

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<v Speaker 1>it was a long road back.

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<v Speaker 2>My story is the story of a woman who disappoints

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<v Speaker 2>the most admired woman in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>From a cocoa punch and iHeartMedia, this is the turning

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Erika Lance Part one, No turning back.

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<v Speaker 4>Mother Teresa was busy as usual, saving the world, and

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<v Speaker 4>I mean that quite literally.

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<v Speaker 1>It's nineteen eighty five. Ronald Reagan's in front of the

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<v Speaker 1>French doors of the West wing of the White House.

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<v Speaker 4>Her order of the Missionaries of Charity is spread throughout

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<v Speaker 4>the world, serving the poorest of the poor.

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<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa stands beside him in her white and blue

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<v Speaker 1>sorry a foot shorter than he is.

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<v Speaker 4>Mother Teresa is a heroine of our times. And to

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<v Speaker 4>the many honors she has received, including the Nobel Peace Prize,

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<v Speaker 4>we add with deep affection and endless respect, the Presidential

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<v Speaker 4>Medal of Freedom.

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<v Speaker 3>I am most doneworthy of this generous gift of our President,

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<v Speaker 3>said Reagan and his wife and new people of United States.

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<v Speaker 3>But I accept it for the greater glory of God

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<v Speaker 3>and in the name of the millions of poor people.

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<v Speaker 3>For this gift, in spirit and in love will penetrate

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<v Speaker 3>the hearts of the people. For in giving it to me,

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<v Speaker 3>you are giving it to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa founded her congregation of Sisters in Kolcutta, India

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen fifty. She called them the Missionaries of Charity

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<v Speaker 1>MC's for short, and she became famous for tending to

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<v Speaker 1>what she called the poorest of the poor, especially in

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<v Speaker 1>her home for the dying. She explained her mission with

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<v Speaker 1>a Bible passage.

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<v Speaker 3>Jesus said, I was hungry and you gave me to eat.

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<v Speaker 3>I was naked, you clothe me. I was homeless and

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<v Speaker 3>you took me in. I was seek and in prison,

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<v Speaker 3>and you visited me, and you took care of me.

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<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity believe that each sick person

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<v Speaker 1>on the street is Jesus in disguise.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the same Jesus and the distressing disguise of the poor.

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<v Speaker 1>The Missionaries of Charity are still headquartered in Kolcutta, but

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<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa expanded her mission far beyond Indian She founded

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<v Speaker 1>convents in other countries, and she created new MC branches

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<v Speaker 1>for fathers and for brothers. As her order grew, so

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<v Speaker 1>did Mother Teresa's fame. People loved her message. She spoke

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<v Speaker 1>of love, of having compassion for everyone, of doing your

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<v Speaker 1>small part to help others. It's a message that appealed

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<v Speaker 1>to Mary Johnson. Mary grew up in Michigan and Texas

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<v Speaker 1>in a Catholic family. She was the oldest of seven kids,

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<v Speaker 1>and at a young age she had a special relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with a higher power.

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<v Speaker 2>I had always found church to be something I enjoyed

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<v Speaker 2>if it didn't last too long. I enjoyed Catholic school

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<v Speaker 2>when I was in class, but on the playground at

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<v Speaker 2>lunch time, I really don't have any friends, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I would find some place on the distant side of

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<v Speaker 2>the playground and I would just talk to God. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's kind of where it started for me.

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<v Speaker 1>In second grade, Mary's teacher told the class to write

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<v Speaker 1>about what they wanted to be when they grew up.

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<v Speaker 2>Boys, you could be fireman, you could be doctors, you

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<v Speaker 2>could be policemen. And she gave this long list of

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<v Speaker 2>careers possibilities, and then she said, girls, you could be

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<v Speaker 2>nurses or teachers. So write your essay.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know what to do because I wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be either an archaeologist or the director of the New

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<v Speaker 2>York Philharmonic. I used to watch Leonard Bernstein on television

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<v Speaker 2>and I just loved that, and I thought it was

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<v Speaker 2>just the best thing in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Just two options for girls neither interested Mary. Here's what

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<v Speaker 1>she wrote in the end.

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<v Speaker 2>When I grow up, I will be whatever God wants

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<v Speaker 2>me to be. I have figured that way God has

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<v Speaker 2>learning more possibilities, and he said, than the sister does.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I thought that's it. But somehow it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>just an essay for me. It was like a pact.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like, okay, God, you show me what you want,

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<v Speaker 2>and I will do that thing.

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<v Speaker 1>When Mary was twelve years old, her parents got in

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<v Speaker 1>to charismatic Catholicism. They were pretty involved in it. The

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<v Speaker 1>local group often met at their house. They'd pray and

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<v Speaker 1>speak and sing in tongues. But Mary didn't quite connect

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<v Speaker 1>with that type of spirituality. She waited for her own

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<v Speaker 1>message from God. In high school, Barry joined the debate team.

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<v Speaker 1>She wrote for the high school newspaper, and then when

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<v Speaker 1>she was a senior, the message arrived.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was walking past our library, which had glass windows,

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<v Speaker 2>and I saw the cover of Time magazine and there

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<v Speaker 2>was this face of this wrinkled nun with a white

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<v Speaker 2>veil with blue stripes, and she had these eyes. And

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<v Speaker 2>I took that magazine from the shelf and I started

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<v Speaker 2>reading in the bell rank for French class, and I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't care. I just sat there and I read about

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<v Speaker 2>this not in Calcutta, who was doing these fantastic things

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<v Speaker 2>with taking in dying people and caring for them.

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<v Speaker 1>She was attracted to the MC's focus on love and

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<v Speaker 1>working with the poor, but it was their commitment to

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<v Speaker 1>the vow of poverty to live like those they were

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<v Speaker 1>serving that grabbed her.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the Missionaries of Charity took poverty really seriously.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the places in the Bible where Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>talks about poverty is during that Summon on the mount

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<v Speaker 2>when he says, stop worrying about everything. Look at the

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<v Speaker 2>birds of the air, Look at the lilies of the field.

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<v Speaker 2>See how your heavenly Father takes care of them. He

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<v Speaker 2>knows what they need me make sure they get it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be less for you. He has every hair

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<v Speaker 2>on your head counted. What do you think He's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>let disaster strike? No, No, just consider the lilies.

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<v Speaker 1>The article just pulled her in like nothing before.

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<v Speaker 2>This was like my whole heart on fire. And I

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<v Speaker 2>really felt like that was God talking to me. And

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<v Speaker 2>by the time I got up, I said, this is

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<v Speaker 2>what I gotta do. And I went home and started

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<v Speaker 2>writing letters and trying to figure it out.

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<v Speaker 1>Mary wrote to Mother Teresa and asked to join her order.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, And it's kind of that impulsivity of a teenager.

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<v Speaker 1>It was the summer of nineteen seventy seven when Mary

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<v Speaker 1>arrived in New York City. She made her way through

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<v Speaker 1>the city to a new life as a missionary of charity.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd never been in a big city like that before.

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<v Speaker 2>Enormous buildings and these wide streets and all of these

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<v Speaker 2>people out on the street, so many cars, so much action,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was exciting.

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Mary was headed to the Bronx. That's where the main

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 1>empcy house in the United States is, and it's where

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 1>she'd joined new Sisters in training. She carried a cardboard

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 1>box tied with string. It held two skirts and two blouses.

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 1>That's all the Sisters said she'd need. New York was

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 1>a different place. In the summer of seventy seven, a

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.320
<v Speaker 1>widespread blackout shut down the city and led to looting.

0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 1>It had nearly gone bankrupt just two years before. Landlords

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 1>were setting fire to their own buildings to cash in

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.200
<v Speaker 1>on insurance, and one of the biggest manhunts in New

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>York City history was on for the son of Sam,

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 1>serial killer who was shooting and murdering young women. But

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.200
<v Speaker 1>when Mary arrived, what she noticed was the energy.

0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I do remember very clearly emerging from the subway station

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:47.000
<v Speaker 2>there and walking into all of this sound, Spanish music,

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Spanish speaking. I'd see mangoes on the sidewalk there in

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 2>front of the fruit stand, and just all the excitement

0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and the energy of the South Bronc in the summer

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen seventy seven. There were these groups, especially of

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>young men and older boys, gathered around boomboxes and doing

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:17.960
<v Speaker 2>these enormous gymnastic moves is very very impressive breakdancing, and

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 2>it's just feeling like I had walked into a completely

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.120
<v Speaker 2>different world than the one I'd known.

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>The convent looked like any other house in the area,

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 1>a simple brick building.

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 2>So I ring the doorbell and wait a little while,

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 2>and wait a little while, and then finally sister Rochelle

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 2>comes down. She welcomes me with a big smile, and

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 2>she knows my name, and she knows what I'm there for.

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>They've been waiting for me. And I went inside and

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 2>everything inside was quiet. Rossel whispered to me. She says welcome,

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 2>and she says, let's go say hello to Jesus.

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>After a quick stop to pray in the chapel, they

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 1>climbed to the stairs to the refectory room, where they

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.640
<v Speaker 1>did most everything. They ate their meals in the refectory,

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>studied how to be a sister. In the refectory, inside

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>was a plywood table, two benches, and a stool.

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of amazed at how bare it was,

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:14.919
<v Speaker 2>how minimal it was.

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.600
<v Speaker 1>On the wall hung side by side images of Mother

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Teresa and Jesus. There was also a plaque with the

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.119
<v Speaker 1>motto for new Sisters, a quote from the Gospel of John.

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Jesus must increase and I must decrease. Then Sister Rochelle

0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.359
<v Speaker 1>showed her the dormitory, a sacred space that must stay silent.

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 1>They were never to speak inside it. It was one

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 1>room with thirteen cots and they were really close together,

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 1>just enough room between them to get into bed. Mary

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>was excited for this unadorned life.

0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Things can weigh you down so much, and there was

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.479
<v Speaker 2>a sense of freedom to it. How are you going

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.159
<v Speaker 2>to get along with just these few little things? But

0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 2>it's nice. It's the lilies of the field and the

0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.200
<v Speaker 2>birds of the air don't need more much.

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Mary arrived in time for adoration. She and the other

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.200
<v Speaker 1>sisters filed into a pewless chapel, They knelt in rose

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>and put their heads to the floor.

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:16.880
<v Speaker 2>The center of this life was God. Nothing else mattered

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.320
<v Speaker 2>in the way that those moments of prayer did that time,

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.080
<v Speaker 2>that time with God.

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 1>They're chanting mixed with the sounds from outside backfiring cars, boomboxes.

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.359
<v Speaker 1>She felt like she'd entered a distant, peaceful planet she

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:37.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't understand. She prayed, You'd have the strength for this life.

0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.640
<v Speaker 1>At dinner that night, Mary and her twelve new sisters

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.200
<v Speaker 1>gathered around that plywood refectory table.

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 2>And ster Carmeline said, Praise Beee Jesus Christ, and everybody

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 2>there started clapping their hands and singings, we welcome, welcome sister,

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 2>We welcome, welcome sister. We welcome welcome sister from our hut,

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 2>just as they had sung to each new sister who

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.359
<v Speaker 2>arrived and would continue to sing to each one after me.

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 1>When a woman enters the Missionaries of Charity, she starts

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:44.040
<v Speaker 1>as an aspirant. Mary's aspirancy would last six months. She

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.160
<v Speaker 1>wore a conservative blouse and skirt. The white sorry would

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.960
<v Speaker 1>come later. She quickly learns that days in the Missionaries

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.640
<v Speaker 1>of Charity were strictly regimented a bell rang to signal

0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:55.919
<v Speaker 1>time for a new task.

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 2>The bell marked absolutely everything we did, and whenever it rang,

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.760
<v Speaker 2>whatever it rang, Mother told us we were to stop

0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 2>immediately doing whatever we were doing, because the bell was

0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:13.120
<v Speaker 2>the voice of God.

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.360
<v Speaker 1>The sisters had a tight timetable. Wake up at four

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 1>forty in the morning, pray, make beds, clean the house

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.960
<v Speaker 1>only twenty minutes for that, wash clothes by hand at

0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 1>ten mass, eat breakfast all before eight o'clock, then go

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>out to work in the community. There was also the

0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 1>kneeling and praying hours of it every day.

0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.239
<v Speaker 2>I loved the fact that prayer was so central to

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.160
<v Speaker 2>the lives of the missionaries of charity, but my knees

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:43.200
<v Speaker 2>hurt like hell.

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.879
<v Speaker 1>There were times for spiritual reading and instruction, and they

0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.719
<v Speaker 1>got thirty minutes of what they called recreation, basically when

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 1>they all sat in the refectory and caught up on

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 1>work like mending clothes. The aspirants reported to a mistress

0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 1>in charge, the aspiring mistress. She taught them how to

0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 1>follow the rules.

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I was under very close scrutiny, and my aspirant mistress

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 2>would correct every mistake she saw, and she'd do it

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 2>publicly and she'd do it loudly, kind of like the

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>drill sergeant.

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.239
<v Speaker 5>The idea behind the Mission of Charity training is just

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 5>like military training, to break you down into nothing.

0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.440
<v Speaker 1>This is Kelly Dunham. She also joined the Missionaries of

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.359
<v Speaker 1>Charity and began her training in the same convent as Mary,

0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>but seventeen years later, in nineteen ninety four.

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.000
<v Speaker 5>In those first months, it seemed like the whole idea

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 5>was to make you feel as alone as possible, with

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.639
<v Speaker 5>the idea that you would depend only on God.

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Kelly says that like in boot camp, you did what

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you were told, whether or not it made sense to you.

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>She struggled with that, but she loved the moments of

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.560
<v Speaker 1>beauty working as a group for a cause, and their

0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.320
<v Speaker 1>nightly songs. After evening prayer, all of the sisters would

0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 1>walk outside and stand around a statue of Mary, the

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:02.399
<v Speaker 1>Mother of Jesus.

0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 5>Then you sing a little song to Mary, and everyone

0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 5>does like a little silent prayer, and usually touches the statue.

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 5>I think, on the feet and then goes up. Created

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.200
<v Speaker 5>a moment, a moment of honoring something bigger than yourself.

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.880
<v Speaker 5>And it's just like by candle lights, right, So it's

0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:20.159
<v Speaker 5>actually extremely like poignant, and it's a moment, right like

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 5>it's a moment. I still can almost get tearful thinking

0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.640
<v Speaker 5>about that. And I can remember one night we were

0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 5>all standing around the statue of Mary with all the sisters,

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 5>their faces reflected lighted up by just the candle light,

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:35.359
<v Speaker 5>and I remember thinking, Oh, man, I get to be

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:47.440
<v Speaker 5>with all these beautiful women the rest of my life.

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Mary Johnson had been in the convent for two weeks

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 1>when there is a big announcement Mother Teresa was coming.

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>We got so excited, you know, it just shouted there,

0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.199
<v Speaker 2>just oh so excited. She told us during dinner, so

0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>it was a time when we could speak, and we did.

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Mary couldn't believe she'd finally meet this woman people called

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:07.879
<v Speaker 1>a living saint.

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'd heard about saints, some of saints had

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>these abilities where they could read people's souls. If she

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.640
<v Speaker 2>was like that, she probably wouldn't like me, I thought.

0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing I was scared about was what

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.880
<v Speaker 2>would happen if it turned out I didn't like her.

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I decided what I would do was I would go

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.480
<v Speaker 2>to the top of the staircase because Mother Tresa would

0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.840
<v Speaker 2>come in the front door and if I positioned myself

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.320
<v Speaker 2>just right on those stairs, i'd be able to see her.

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.359
<v Speaker 2>And when the door opened and Mother was the first

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.399
<v Speaker 2>one to come in, and I saw her there, this tiny,

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:50.119
<v Speaker 2>short woman with so many wrinkles, and she just looked

0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.560
<v Speaker 2>so small and so determined. And the aspirants who had

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.840
<v Speaker 2>been waiting and were down there on that floor, Oh, Mother, Mother,

0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 2>and they were saying things, and she would It was like,

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.400
<v Speaker 2>let me say hello to Jesus. First, Mother must say

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:07.160
<v Speaker 2>hello to Jesus. It was the first time I heard

0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 2>her talk about herself in the third person, which was

0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:11.959
<v Speaker 2>something she did all the time. But I didn't know that.

0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Then I thought, Ooh.

0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 3>Mother.

0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Teresa looked utterly focused as she took off her sandals

0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 1>and walked to the chapel. Then she knelt to pray.

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I had never seen anyone somehow that connected with God.

0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I felt that something holy was happening there.

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:40.960
<v Speaker 1>One day, Mother Teresa sat down at the Aspirens table

0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:44.199
<v Speaker 1>to talk with the young women entering her order. She

0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 1>shared a clear message, one that would reverberate in Mary's

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:49.879
<v Speaker 1>mind for the next twenty years.

0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:53.800
<v Speaker 2>God called you to come here. Jesus did not call

0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 2>your sister did not call your neighbor. Jesus called you

0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 2>to be here. And she said God has called you.

0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.040
<v Speaker 2>You must be faithful for life, or pack up and

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:09.960
<v Speaker 2>go home right now. And she was so clear and

0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:15.399
<v Speaker 2>so strong and not a little bit scary, and she

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>was saying, just to people who had been there for

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:22.120
<v Speaker 2>for two weeks basically and hadn't figured it out yet,

0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't know exactly did God call me? That's a very

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.200
<v Speaker 2>amorphous question. But Mother was sure. She said, you're here.

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 2>That means God called you here, and now you must

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:32.119
<v Speaker 2>be faithful for life.

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.120
<v Speaker 1>She brought the twelve aspirants to the chapel and had

0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the kneel in a row at the front. Then she

0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:41.880
<v Speaker 1>went down the line and gave them each a crucifix.

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.919
<v Speaker 1>She brought the crucifix to each sister's lips for a kiss.

0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:49.719
<v Speaker 2>She pressed that crucifix so strongly against my lips that

0:25:49.800 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like you can hardly respond with any

0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of kiss because she pushes it there and then

0:25:54.800 --> 0:26:00.879
<v Speaker 2>she pulls it away. Mother did everything forcefully, wholeheartedly. You know,

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:05.200
<v Speaker 2>you feel that kind of electricity when something special is happening,

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>where your whole body just kind of tingles and feels alive,

0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:12.199
<v Speaker 2>and at the same time there was a kind of

0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 2>a I think the reluctance wasn't so much in my body.

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 2>The reluctance was more in my mind. But physically I

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:22.879
<v Speaker 2>was very excited. I was kind of full in. I

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 2>remember whenever Mother spoke, just being so taken in by

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>her words and by her conviction and by the power

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>of her own belief, that you really just looked at

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:44.479
<v Speaker 2>her and could not look away. Okay, now I have

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:46.920
<v Speaker 2>to be a better person than I have ever been

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.679
<v Speaker 2>in my whole life. The bar's been raised.

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 1>When Mother Teresa told Mary and the other Aspirans that

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.359
<v Speaker 1>they were chosen, she said it came with a lifelong commitment.

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.600
<v Speaker 1>It was like a marriage. They must be faithful to

0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:14.159
<v Speaker 1>God and their vows. All Catholic nuns take vows of poverty, chastity,

0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 1>and obedience. Mother Teresa added a fourth vow for her sisters,

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.439
<v Speaker 1>the vow of wholehearted and free service to the poorest

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 1>of the poor. Mother Teresa said, to succeed in your vows,

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.159
<v Speaker 1>you just need to do one thing. Follow the constitutions.

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 1>That's the governing document of the missionaries of charity. Legend

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 1>was that early on, while everyone slept, Mother Teresa wrote

0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:39.359
<v Speaker 1>the Constitutions by candlelight. Then the Vatican authorized it as

0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 1>an infallible path to holiness. The Constitutions laid out a

0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:46.480
<v Speaker 1>life of love and service in the extreme.

0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 2>That the attraction is really that life of sacrifice. You

0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:51.880
<v Speaker 2>want to do something different, you want to do something radical,

0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 2>even if it's very conservative, it's also very.

0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Radical to do this. The Aspirants had a daily rule

0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:02.240
<v Speaker 1>class taught by the mistress. Mary's mistress wore glasses. She

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:03.200
<v Speaker 1>was short and stern.

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Sister Carmelin sat on her little stool at the head

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.919
<v Speaker 2>of the table, and she passed out the constitution books,

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 2>page to open to, which number on that page to read,

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 2>and we'd read it together, and then we'd close the books,

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:20.200
<v Speaker 2>and then at the end of class she would collect them.

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of like, I knew there were things

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:24.600
<v Speaker 2>in that book she did not want us to see

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:26.960
<v Speaker 2>it as curious about those.

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Gradually Mary learned the rules from her mistress. She learned

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 1>how to.

0:28:33.440 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Walk briskly, quickly, you don't want to waste any time,

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:38.440
<v Speaker 2>but not like wild elephants.

0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 1>How to talk.

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 2>We weren't supposed to talk about really anything that went

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:45.560
<v Speaker 2>on outside, you know, whether it was books or movies.

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:47.120
<v Speaker 1>How to wear her hair.

0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:48.960
<v Speaker 2>And make a ponytail like decent girls.

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>How to keep custody of the eyes.

0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 2>We weren't supposed to be looking around at anything, really,

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:59.000
<v Speaker 2>but especially not billboards or newsstands.

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Even how to fall napkin always.

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 2>In a triangle with an extra part hanging down, And

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:07.400
<v Speaker 2>that was that triangle is the Trinity. I should think

0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:09.480
<v Speaker 2>of the Trinity every time you fold it in this

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 2>particular way.

0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:14.479
<v Speaker 1>Your superior was considered the direct voice of God, and

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:17.800
<v Speaker 1>the vow of obedience meant obey your superior without question.

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Any time a superior entered the room, we were all

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 2>to stand and to sit only when she sat or

0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 2>indicated in some other way that we should sit.

0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Then there was the vow of poverty. Pretty much all

0:29:31.320 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Catholic nuns take a vow of poverty, but Mother Teresa

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.200
<v Speaker 1>took it a step further. She explained it in an

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 1>interview on IRIS TV.

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 3>If you really want to know the poor, we must

0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 3>know what is poverty. And that's why in our society,

0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:47.160
<v Speaker 3>poverty is our freedom and our strength.

0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.200
<v Speaker 1>The missionaries of charity relied on donations and divine providence,

0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and over the years the Order received large donations millions

0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:57.760
<v Speaker 1>of dollars worth because of the interest their work inspired.

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.800
<v Speaker 1>But the sisters lived meager lives regardless of how much

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 1>money the organization raised. They lived as though they didn't

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 1>have any for the sake of their vow.

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 6>The life of poverty of the Missionaries of Charity is

0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:18.640
<v Speaker 6>a very poor life. It is a poor life.

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 1>This is Sister Kathleen Hughes.

0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:25.120
<v Speaker 6>I remember my first breakfast in London. I never forget.

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 6>It was kind of moldy bread, and then we got

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:33.720
<v Speaker 6>the airport cheeses from the air you know, somebody would

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 6>bring us these little individual cheeses from the planes, you see,

0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:42.920
<v Speaker 6>and they were over ripe by the time we got them.

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 6>So I had a mouthful of moldy bread and this

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 6>over ripe Camembert cheese, and I remember saying to the Lord,

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 6>is every breakfast for the rest of my life going.

0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:57.360
<v Speaker 1>To be like ft?

0:30:58.480 --> 0:30:58.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 6>No, it was an initiation, It was a test.

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 5>The Missionaries of Charity don't have fans or air conditioners.

0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 1>That's Kelli Doneham again.

0:31:12.000 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 5>And in the Bronx at that time, we weren't even

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 5>opening the windows during the night, you know, so it

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:22.360
<v Speaker 5>was really really hot. So we didn't wear deodorant. We're

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 5>wearing like three or four layers between the outside so

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 5>even when you sweated, it didn't make you cooler because

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 5>it wasn't evaporating, was just getting trapped by the outside layer.

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:34.480
<v Speaker 5>And I remember saying to the sisters like, we don't

0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 5>smell very good, and she's like, oh, such a blessing

0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:37.640
<v Speaker 5>to help with chastity.

0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:37.760
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Mother Teresa was very concerned about maintaining the vow of chastity,

0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:51.719
<v Speaker 2>really almost to the point of paranoia about it, and

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 2>she passed then on to everybody else in Ordle class.

0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Mary learned chastity meant more than not having sex for

0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>missionaries of charity, and meant no touching period. The sisters

0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 1>should never touch each other and the people they cared for.

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa said, touch them as little as possible.

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.719
<v Speaker 2>She would say, sometimes, of course it's necessary. You have

0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 2>to touch the babies, you have to feed the babies,

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:18.400
<v Speaker 2>but as soon as that baby is fed, you put

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 2>that baby down.

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 1>The vow of chastity is why talking was so controlled,

0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 1>to make sure sisters didn't get too close. They could

0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 1>only talk at approved times, usually when they were all together.

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 1>When sisters walked outside the convent, always in twos, they

0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>didn't talk. Instead, they prayed the Rosary. Allowed together, on sidewalks,

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.240
<v Speaker 1>on buses, everywhere.

0:32:40.600 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 2>You could not have a friend. This was very specifically prohibited.

0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 2>They call it particular friendship. If somebody saw you getting

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of closer to one sister than to another, you

0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:58.160
<v Speaker 2>would be called out on it. They were afraid that

0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 2>if you got too close to somebody, everybody else would

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>feel excluded. And then the other fear was that particular

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:10.560
<v Speaker 2>friendship was kind of a name for like relationships of

0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:14.200
<v Speaker 2>a homosexual nature. If you got too close to somebody,

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:15.920
<v Speaker 2>it was really you were playing with fire.

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm cutting in here right now because I think for

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:54.600
<v Speaker 1>a story like this, it's important for you to know

0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 1>where I'm coming from. And to do that, I'd like

0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:00.240
<v Speaker 1>to introduce you to someone. Her name is Allen.

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 7>So Hi, I'm Ailan, and I'm your sister Erica, like

0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:09.600
<v Speaker 7>actual sister, not religious sister. Yeah, And over the past

0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:13.359
<v Speaker 7>year we've actually been working on this podcast together. We've

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 7>been producing it together.

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:17.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious. I mean, when I called you and asked

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:19.120
<v Speaker 1>you to work on this project. What did you think?

0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:22.800
<v Speaker 7>I thought, you know what, that makes a lot of sense.

0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:23.400
<v Speaker 8>Really.

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:27.240
<v Speaker 7>I think it's because, you know, we went to Catholic

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:30.040
<v Speaker 7>school when we were young, even though we weren't Catholic,

0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 7>and we had nuns as teachers, and I think you

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 7>really looked up to them.

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>Erica, Yeah, I looked up to them, and I was

0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 1>also really interested in them. Do you remember they lived

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 1>in a house, like right by the school. It was

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:46.799
<v Speaker 1>down the drive from the school. We'd pass it every day.

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:47.560
<v Speaker 1>It was white.

0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 7>Oh yeah, yeah.

0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:52.359
<v Speaker 1>Whenever we went past that house, I would look at

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:54.880
<v Speaker 1>it and just wonder what their lives were like in

0:34:54.880 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 1>that house, Like what are the rooms they're sleeping in?

0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.520
<v Speaker 1>How did they become nuns? Like how do you make

0:35:00.560 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that choice? It's weird to look back, but I actually

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:06.719
<v Speaker 1>think in second grade I made a list of all

0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the things I wanted to be when I grew up,

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:10.279
<v Speaker 1>which was a really long list, but one of the

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 1>things I included was to be a nun, which is

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.200
<v Speaker 1>strange to think back on now, but I was really

0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:16.879
<v Speaker 1>taken with them.

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:17.839
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, you were.

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.680
<v Speaker 1>I kind of feel like in a way this podcast,

0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:23.160
<v Speaker 1>it's like I'm getting to look inside that house, you know.

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:26.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, that's one reason I wanted to work on

0:35:26.320 --> 0:35:29.880
<v Speaker 1>it with you, because you have a PhD in psychology

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and you're really interested in the extremes of human behavior

0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and why people do what they do. And I feel

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 1>like that's a big part of this too, because the

0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:43.439
<v Speaker 1>missionaries and charity, it's an intense way of life.

0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:48.200
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, when I first heard about this story, I thought

0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 7>there would be a lot of beautiful moments and also

0:35:52.600 --> 0:35:56.080
<v Speaker 7>how life is an EMC is difficult at times, you know,

0:35:56.320 --> 0:36:01.759
<v Speaker 7>But I guess what we ended up finding There was

0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:07.560
<v Speaker 7>a lot more darkness than I realized. And you know,

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:11.439
<v Speaker 7>just hearing these women talk about even how years after

0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:14.799
<v Speaker 7>leaving they were having nightmares about times as an MC,

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 7>I don't know. It's just hard to grapple with all that.

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:24.759
<v Speaker 7>It's just hard to keep all the beautiful stories and

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.719
<v Speaker 7>all the dark ones in my head at once, and

0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 7>so I'm constantly changing how I feel about this.

0:36:31.440 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a lot more complicated than I thought early on.

0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe a week into Mary's time at the convent, she

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:49.600
<v Speaker 1>saw what it was like to be on the wrong

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:52.080
<v Speaker 1>end of a rule. It was the end of the day,

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.239
<v Speaker 1>so Mary took her nightly shower. Then she walked out

0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:56.360
<v Speaker 1>of the bathing room.

0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.840
<v Speaker 2>So I'm there with my bucket full of my dirty

0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm wearing my night dress, and I walk out the door,

0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.759
<v Speaker 2>and immediately standing right there so I can't even move,

0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:12.600
<v Speaker 2>is Sister Carmeline. And then she says, sister Mary, you

0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 2>took the shower.

0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:18.520
<v Speaker 8>I said, yes, sister, And she says.

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:21.640
<v Speaker 2>And you did it last night too. I heard the

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>water falling. You took the shower, yes, sister, have you

0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:27.880
<v Speaker 2>no shame? I mean, it was really She was getting

0:37:28.000 --> 0:37:31.080
<v Speaker 2>very upset. She ended up calling me all sorts of

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:34.600
<v Speaker 2>names that I was vain and lazy and immodest. And

0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:37.719
<v Speaker 2>I could not figure this out. What on earth had

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I done that was wrong? The water coming from the

0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 2>shower head was cold water. I hadn't broken poverty by

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 2>turning on the hot one. I hadn't taken very long.

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:51.320
<v Speaker 2>I was really pretty quick about it. I couldn't understand.

0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Earlier that day, Sister Carmeline had taught the Aspirans how

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:58.560
<v Speaker 1>to respond when corrected. You were supposed to stay silent,

0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.960
<v Speaker 1>never talk back, and only speak when it's clear your

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:05.000
<v Speaker 1>superior is done then there was only one thing you

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:08.120
<v Speaker 1>could say, thank you, sister, Sorry sister.

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:10.799
<v Speaker 2>And so all the while my mind is racing, trying

0:38:10.800 --> 0:38:13.799
<v Speaker 2>to figure out what on earth I've done wrong. At

0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:18.040
<v Speaker 2>the same time, this instruction is coming back. Stand there, silent,

0:38:18.719 --> 0:38:23.399
<v Speaker 2>like Jesus before Pilot, sister Carmeline had said. And even

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:26.279
<v Speaker 2>that morning that had caused a little confusion for me,

0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>because I knew before Pilot Jesus did not stand silent.

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Jesus and Pilot had a conversation, and Jesus talks about

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 2>the truth. Pilot asks what is truth. There's this dialogue

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 2>between them. Jesus was silent before King Herod when he

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 2>was brought before him. But at the end I could

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:51.560
<v Speaker 2>only say those five words, thank you, sister, Sorry, sister.

0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:56.440
<v Speaker 1>The next morning, Mary asked another sister what she done wrong.

0:38:57.120 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Emcees don't take showers. She said, instead, you're supposed to

0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:03.080
<v Speaker 1>pour water over yourself with a tin can.

0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:05.239
<v Speaker 2>And then at the end I just said thank you

0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:07.120
<v Speaker 2>and just kind of tapped her on the arm, and

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:10.879
<v Speaker 2>she got so furious. She said, no, don't touch, don't touch. Yeah,

0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, I can't do anything right.

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Mary started her training with eleven other women. Six months later,

0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:25.040
<v Speaker 1>only she and one other aspirant remained. Each time a

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:28.000
<v Speaker 1>sister left, it felt abrupt. They'd only find out about

0:39:28.000 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 1>it after the fact from their mistress, no explanation, just

0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:34.080
<v Speaker 1>that they'd left. The remaining sisters didn't get to say goodbye,

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:36.759
<v Speaker 1>and they weren't allowed to talk about it. It made

0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Mary wonder about her own vocation.

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Inside of me. There were all these questions about so

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.799
<v Speaker 2>what does it mean to be called? And how do

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you know if you're called?

0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Mary prayed over and over to know whether she should

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 1>go home or stay.

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>And it just always came back to this, this tug,

0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:59.920
<v Speaker 2>this poll to come and join Mother Teresa in fi

0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 2>following Jesus. It was like, Yes, this is what I

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:03.759
<v Speaker 2>was meant to do.

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 3>This is it.

0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Mary finished her aspirancy, so she was ready for the

0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.319
<v Speaker 1>next step. And I should say there are a lot

0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:14.160
<v Speaker 1>of steps to become an MC or any kind of nun.

0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:17.040
<v Speaker 1>They each have different names and it can get confusing,

0:40:17.200 --> 0:40:20.600
<v Speaker 1>but don't worry about it. I'll help you along the way. Basically,

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:22.879
<v Speaker 1>first you're in training, then for a while you take

0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>vows that last a year, and finally you take life

0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:30.200
<v Speaker 1>long vows but Mary says, even before those final vows,

0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Mother Teresa believed you were committed for life. Any urge

0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:35.600
<v Speaker 1>to leave was the devil's temptation.

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, in the book it says you take your vows

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:41.520
<v Speaker 2>for one year, but you know in your heart you

0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:43.959
<v Speaker 2>do not tell Jesus yes for one year, you say

0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:47.839
<v Speaker 2>yes for your entire life. I think Mother Teresa took

0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 2>everything to its most radical conclusion.

0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:54.840
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of pressure for anyone, especially a teenager.

0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 1>At this point, Mary was ready to become what's called

0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 1>a postulant, and for that she was sent to Rome.

0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:04.959
<v Speaker 2>I arrived in Rome at the beginning of nineteen seventy eight.

0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:06.919
<v Speaker 2>I was still nineteen years old.

0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Rome was full of life and history. The Colosseum, the

0:41:10.920 --> 0:41:14.479
<v Speaker 1>Roman Forum, the Pantheon, they were all nearby. At the time.

0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:17.400
<v Speaker 1>The city was in turmoil too, fights in the streets,

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:21.319
<v Speaker 1>new divorce at abortion laws that led to protests. But

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Mary's life centered around the convent at the San Gregorio Church,

0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:30.200
<v Speaker 1>A little world inside this bustling city. Across a gravel

0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:32.919
<v Speaker 1>yard and through a gate was the convent, a block

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 1>of low cement buildings. As a postulant, she still wore

0:41:36.480 --> 0:41:40.360
<v Speaker 1>her own skirt and blouse. No sorry. Yet, whenever she

0:41:40.400 --> 0:41:43.359
<v Speaker 1>felt overwhelmed, she remembered mother's words.

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:47.600
<v Speaker 2>You're here. That means God called you here, and now

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:50.080
<v Speaker 2>you must be faithful for life.

0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:53.440
<v Speaker 1>After postulancy, Mary became a novice, and that meant it

0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 1>was time to take a new name. Once she picked

0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:57.480
<v Speaker 1>for herself sister.

0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Donata, Donata and freely given.

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:06.920
<v Speaker 1>There is also a ceremony. Mary and seven other sisters

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:10.080
<v Speaker 1>lined up in a chapel in front of Mother Teresa.

0:42:10.600 --> 0:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>One by one, Mother called the sisters by their new names.

0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:18.560
<v Speaker 1>When Mary heard Mother Teresa call her new name, Sister Donata,

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.920
<v Speaker 1>it felt like a wave crested over her. It carried

0:42:21.920 --> 0:42:24.680
<v Speaker 1>away Mary, the postulant who struggled with all the rules.

0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:28.400
<v Speaker 2>And so I suppose in that since my old self

0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:29.960
<v Speaker 2>was decreasing.

0:42:32.440 --> 0:42:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Mother handed her new clothes. In a few moments, Mary's

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:38.600
<v Speaker 1>skirt and blouse would be gone, forever, replaced by the

0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:42.759
<v Speaker 1>white sarres of the missionaries of charity. Mother had Mary

0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 1>kiss the habit. She said, let the world be nothing

0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 1>to you, and you nothing to the world. Then a

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:53.879
<v Speaker 1>sister handed Mother Teresa a pair of scissors to take

0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the first snip of Mary's hair.

0:42:57.239 --> 0:42:59.759
<v Speaker 2>Mother Teresa cut off just one little lock of hair

0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 2>and laid it on a tray.

0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Another sister cut off Mary's ponytail. They were all singing

0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:11.120
<v Speaker 1>this song, I.

0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:21.360
<v Speaker 8>Have decided to follow Jesus. I have decided to follow Jesus.

0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:25.960
<v Speaker 8>I have decided to follow Jesus.

0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 2>No turning back, no turning back. And we got dressed

0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:39.960
<v Speaker 2>in our new clothes. And then as we were leaving

0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:42.440
<v Speaker 2>to go back into the chapel, we were given that

0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:46.120
<v Speaker 2>ponytail to hold into our hands, and we were told

0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:48.960
<v Speaker 2>that this is like the bouquet of flowers that a

0:43:49.000 --> 0:43:52.520
<v Speaker 2>young bride would carry to her wedding. And so we

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:56.359
<v Speaker 2>brought that ponytail, holding it in our hands, and laid

0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 2>it there in front of the altar in a little

0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:00.480
<v Speaker 2>basket that was there.

0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:04.960
<v Speaker 1>After the ceremony, Mother Teresa ate dinner with the new novices.

0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Mother explained that cutting their hair was a sign of

0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:14.320
<v Speaker 1>a sacred commitment to God. Once dinner was over, grand

0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:19.000
<v Speaker 1>silence began, like every evening, no talking aloud until breakfast

0:44:19.000 --> 0:44:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the next day. But that night something unusual happened, without

0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:25.600
<v Speaker 1>anyone saying a word.

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:29.640
<v Speaker 2>One of the sisters began to pull each of us

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:34.239
<v Speaker 2>new novices aside, and that she signed to us that

0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 2>we should follow her, and we went into a back room.

0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:42.400
<v Speaker 2>A fire was burning and so the room was quite hot.

0:44:43.719 --> 0:44:48.200
<v Speaker 2>The ceremony wasn't over yet, no one spoke. There were

0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 2>four stools in the middle of the room. There were

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.880
<v Speaker 2>eight of us novices waiting there wondering what on earth

0:44:53.960 --> 0:44:57.080
<v Speaker 2>was going on. And then the first four got motioned

0:44:57.080 --> 0:44:58.279
<v Speaker 2>to sit on the stools.

0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:03.440
<v Speaker 1>The professed sisters held scissors while Mary watched. They were

0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:07.239
<v Speaker 1>moved to the novice's headpieces. They trammed what was left

0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:07.680
<v Speaker 1>of their.

0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Hair, cutting it shorter and shorter and shorter.

0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:12.120
<v Speaker 1>Down to the scalp.

0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:15.680
<v Speaker 2>The sisters were saying, Hail Mary, full of grace, and

0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:19.800
<v Speaker 2>we were answering, Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us.

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:23.800
<v Speaker 2>And I remember one was had tears in her eyes

0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:26.799
<v Speaker 2>as her hair was falling, and others were just kind

0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:29.239
<v Speaker 2>of sitting there with their eyes shut as tight as

0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:33.480
<v Speaker 2>they could. That was kind of kind of frightening to

0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>see it all happened all at once like that. It

0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 2>became very real.

0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:40.879
<v Speaker 1>Then it was Mary's turn to sit on a stool.

0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:47.000
<v Speaker 2>And cutting started. There's very little hair there and now

0:45:47.000 --> 0:45:50.760
<v Speaker 2>there's less, and there's less, until there was really just

0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:52.880
<v Speaker 2>just nothing, as close as you could get with a

0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 2>pair of scissors.

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:05.000
<v Speaker 1>After it was done, someone handed Mary a bucket of water,

0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.720
<v Speaker 1>so she took it to the bathing room to wash herself.

0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Just as I was finishing my bath, at this horrible

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:15.080
<v Speaker 2>smell came through the bathing room door. It was just

0:46:15.120 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 2>like this acrid, awful, awful smell. And I followed that

0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:26.279
<v Speaker 2>smell back into the room where our hair had been cut,

0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:29.480
<v Speaker 2>and I saw there our novice mistress was tossing our

0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:33.719
<v Speaker 2>ponytails into that fire, and just tossing our hair into

0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the fire. And I could hear again that hymn that

0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 2>had been sung earlier that day. No turning back, No

0:46:44.880 --> 0:47:26.359
<v Speaker 2>turning back, And it really felt that way.

0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:44.960
<v Speaker 1>The Turning is written by Allen lance Lesser and Me.

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Our producers are Allen lance Luster and Emily Foreman. Our

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:52.240
<v Speaker 1>editor is Rob Rosenthal. Andrea Assuage is our digital producer.

0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Special thanks to Amy Gaines,

0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Olander, Catherine Joyce, Georgia Young, Beth Anne Macaluso, Travis

0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:05.680
<v Speaker 1>Dunlap and Consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable

0:48:05.719 --> 0:48:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Thirst provided inspiration for this series. President Reagan's remarks and

0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:13.600
<v Speaker 1>presentation of the Medal of Freedom to Mother Teresa and

0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 1>her remarks in the Rose Garden on June twentieth, nineteen

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.480
<v Speaker 1>eighty five were used courtesy of Ronald Reagan Presidential Library

0:48:19.600 --> 0:48:26.080
<v Speaker 1>under a Creative Commons license. Our executive producers are Jessica

0:48:26.120 --> 0:48:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Alpert and John Farrati at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvelle

0:48:29.600 --> 0:48:32.880
<v Speaker 1>at iHeartMedia. Our theme music is by Matt Reid. For

0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:35.160
<v Speaker 1>photos and more details on the series, follow us on

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Instagram at Rococo Punch. You can reach out via email

0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:43.160
<v Speaker 1>to the Turning at rococopunch dot com I America Lance.

0:48:43.440 --> 0:49:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.