WEBVTT - Rendition By Private Jet 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.960 Also media. Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.440 It's me James today here to bring you more terrible 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:16.160 news about migration and deportation. And I'm joined to share 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.120 that terrible news by Gillian Bruckel, a journalist who has 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:25.880 been tracking deportation flights to Djibouti. Hi, Gillian, Hi, how 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:26.079 are you? 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:26.520 James? 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.400 I'm good. Well, amidst the crumbling of everything, that's wonderful. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.200 Yeah, I mean, this is terrible news, but I'm also 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.839 very excited to be in the Cool Zone universe. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:38.920 I love all of the shows. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.320 Yeah, welcome, welcome to the called own universe. It's a 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.559 Sophie Lichtman comic universe. 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:46.360 Oh my god, such a fangirl. 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:52.360 Okay. The United States government attempted to deport twelve men, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.680 all of whom are Libyan, to Libya on the seventh 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.319 of May. Right, it got so far as to them 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:00.720 to the. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.480 Airport right in San Antonio. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.520 In San Antonio, Texas. And then thanks to a injunction, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:11.040 a court injunction, those people were not taken to Libya. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.440 Those people were said returned to an intention center, where 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.000 as listeners the show will now be aware they were 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:23.240 informed that they were being deported renditioned, howe you want 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.920 to say it to South Sudan. This news broke a 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.920 couple of days ago, now, I think Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon, Yeah, yeah, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.240 and that was when you were able to begin using 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:43.240 your ocent aviation knowledge looking for like this this flight 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.480 right that was taken them to South Sudan, because at 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.480 the time the United States government was claiming that the 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.080 flight was was classified or like a state secret. And 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.760 even in court the judge wasn't aware of the flight 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.400 was in the air on the ground, could it turn 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.720 around judging the anthony was going to ask you to 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.960 turn around? So I wonder if you could like walk 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.200 listeners through the time none of this deportation, and then 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.000 how you were able to find millions of maybe not million, 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.040 thousands of planes in the sky the one that was 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.160 taking these people to as it turned out to Djibooty. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:18.880 Sure. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.720 Yeah, So I've been a journalist for fifteen years, but 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.400 before that, I was a flight attendant and you know, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:31.120 I'm in av geek in aviation enthusiast the shorthand you know, 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.800 the hashtag for that is af geek, And so you know, 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.560 I'm always looking at flight Radar twenty four. It's an 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.720 app where you can track different aircraft and so when 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.760 I heard that the flight might still be in. 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.320 The air, I just thought, I wonder if I can 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:45.720 find it. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.680 So I went first, I went on to flight Radar 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.079 twenty four, and first I looked at all of the 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.840 departures out of San Antonio for like the previous twenty 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.960 four hours since the previous flight that was supposed to 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.440 go to Libya that was stopped, that departed from San Antonio. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:05.000 And so I was. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.760 Looking there and you know, didn't see anything. Just commercial flights, 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:14.280 very obviously military flights, and I know they've used military 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.560 aircraft sometimes, but I said, I'm not going to try 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.120 and touch that right now. I want to see if 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.520 it's one of these charter companies, you know, Global x 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.080 a Vello, that have been doing these deportation flights. 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.639 Can you explain those to people, because I don't think 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:27.920 everyone's aware of those. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.160 So these are you know, commercial carriers, but they're they're 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:38.120 contracting with DHS to deport people on their aircraft. So 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.360 you know, the A three twenty that you take across 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:47.360 the country is sometimes used to deport people to other countries, 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.080 and the main companies that are doing that right now 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.800 are a Vello, global X. I think Omni does some 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.520 of them sometimes. And I should say there are a 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.120 lot of people, especially on Blue Sky, a lot of 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.080 av geeks who are tracking and cataloging all of these flights. 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.720 I wasn't even aware of that community until I started 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:16.800 looking for so I didn't see anything, you know, in 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.560 San Antonio, and then I realized, oh, these people had 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.719 been transferred to Port Isabelle in the last few weeks, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.280 so they would have departed out of Harlingen Airport, which 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.080 is nearby. It's you know, a deep deep South Texas 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.320 And so I looked at departures out of harling and 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.360 it's a small airport. They have like ten departures a 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.760 day and it's generally puddle jumpers from one small Texas 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.440 town to another small Texas town, you know. And there 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:48.560 was one global X flight to Miami the day before. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.599 The timeline wasn't exactly right, but I know that DHS, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:57.680 you know, has been slow to notify attorneys, so I thought, well, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.920 maybe this is the flight. They just didn't tell the 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.080 attorneys till the next day. So then I spent way 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.200 too much time looking at all of the departures out 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.600 of Miami to see if there were any global ex flits. 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.200 I saw a few things, but you know, nothing heading 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:19.000 across the Atlantic. And so at that point, flight Radar 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:24.960 twenty four will show you publicly available information on flights. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.480 It won't show you all flights. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.640 But there is another you know, for like deep deep 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:35.800 ab geeks, there's another website called ADSB Exchange, and this 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.440 is a pool of all feeder data all over the 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:44.640 world of all aircraft in the air that aviation enthusiasts 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:50.559 maintained themselves, and they will have military flights that aren't 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.559 going to be on Flight Radar twenty four. They also 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.200 have a lot more information about planes that have a 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:05.000 LAD designation, which stands for limited Aviation Data displayed. I 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.040 don't know how much you want me to explain about that. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.920 Yeah, explain, explain because I think it's interesting for people. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.960 Sure, So LAD designation is used most often for like 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.840 private jet owners, like celebrities and you know, the ultra rich, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.480 And basically it means that they have an extra layer 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:27.400 of privacy for their movements in their private jets. So 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.880 if you try and find a specific private jet on 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.039 flight radar twenty four, it won't come up. You know. 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.839 So like the tail of this plane that did the 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.600 Jabooty flight is N five AA eight eight a T. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.520 If you search for that in flight radar twenty four, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.640 you won't see it. Nothing will come up. However, if 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.400 you know what you're looking for, if you know, like, oh, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.160 I think the flight is heading to Djibouti right now, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.719 you can see on flight radar twenty five for that, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.240 there's a gulf Stream five had a to Djibooty right now, 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.680 but the registration information is obscured. 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.160 Okay, you know it's not like that on the ADSB. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:11.680 You can you could see it. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:13.960 Yeah, your filters have a lot more power. 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.240 Basically, you know your search terms, they're going to go 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.760 around different designations, okay, And so some people hate that. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.520 You know, Taylor Swift had beef with some guy a 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.440 couple of years ago because she has a LAD designation 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.640 on her private jet. He was using ADSB Exchange to 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.680 post her flights, you know, ostensibly for to shame her 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.160 for her carbon footprint. But then she like threatened to 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.800 sue him, and she was like, I have stalkers, Like 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:41.720 I don't want them. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.280 To know when I'm landing in Nashville. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.240 You know, yeah, not going to get into that, but 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.720 you know, that's basically the LAD designation, and ADSB doesn't care. 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.880 And so I went on ADSB and I said, well, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.440 since I've already seen all the publicly available flights, let 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.240 me just look at LAD flights, okay, And so I 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.320 set that filter and that took it down to a 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.800 couple hundred planes in the air, and I honestly just 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.040 got lucky. I just started clicking on planes because I 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.400 don't know how to search for all departures out of 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.400 one airport on ADSP Exchange. I'm sure AV geeks who 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.239 are better at it do, but I just started clicking 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.080 on planes and I clicked. I think like the third 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.920 plane that I clicked on had taken off out of 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.960 Harlingen a couple hours earlier and was over the middle 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.439 of the Atlantic, which is not a usual departure for Harlingen. 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.559 Right, Yeah, that's quite. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.240 And so you know, I posted on Blue Sky to 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.559 the other AV geeks who were looking for it. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:47.520 I think this might be it. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:52.240 You know, it's a private jet with a LAD designation 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.839 that took off from this very obscure airport and it's 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:02.600 traveling internationally. Nothing else really fit the right, so we 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:07.320 all started looking at it. Another reporter named Jacqueline Sweet. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.000 You know, I looked up the registration. It's registered to 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.600 a man named Igor Smirnov, which there are a lot 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:14.839 of Igor Smirnov's. 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.280 Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty common name. 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.600 He's not the Chess guy, he's not the Moldovan guy. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.320 He appears to have once owned an airline in his 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.480 Pakistan and has been in the US for some time. 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.760 So he has, you know, this private jet. And then 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.480 Jacqueline Sweet looked up that yes, he has DHS contracts. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:34.080 Okay. 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.320 Then the other thing was I just googled the tail 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.960 number M five eight eight eight. One of the first 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:46.120 things that came up was that this was the private 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:52.960 jet that carried Britney Griner home from Russia when she 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:54.440 had been. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:56.120 Released in a prisoner swat. 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.560 Yeah, and so that, you know, was the thing where 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.440 I was like, Okay, this this plane's been used for 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:07.640 like weird government business before. Yeah, Like I think I 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.080 think this might be it. Yeah, So that's when I posted. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.120 Once I realized the Britney Grinder thing, then I posted 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.960 it and other people, other av geeks were. 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.200 Saying, yeah, I think that might be it. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.040 And then you know, Jacqueline got more info on the 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.480 contracts and so this is for about two hours we 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.679 watched it and JJ and DC said, I think it's 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.320 about to land in Shannon, and you know, soon enough 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.680 it descended and landed at Shannon. Yep. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.920 So Shannon Airport in Ireland. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:56.880 Is a frequent refueling stop for the US military, and 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.439 you know that's something that a lot of Irish people 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:00.760 really fucking hate. 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.760 Yeah, not a US base, to be clear, if people. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.120 On a way, Yeah, it's not a US base. These 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.560 are this is US military that are just they're just refueling, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.760 but they're refueling to you know, do a lot of 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.640 things that the Irish are not okay with. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:18.599 Yeah. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.520 And so there's there's an organization there called Shannon Watch, 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.800 who you know, they're watching all these US activities and 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.880 you know, pressuring the government to stop this. So you know, 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.800 I tried to email them before the plane even landed, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.679 and I don't know if it was user error on 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.880 my end or you know, if I don't know why 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.679 I didn't work, but they didn't get the message. I 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.240 only found that out like half an hour ago. Yeah, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.480 but so I messaged them, and then I like messaged 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.600 a couple friends in Ireland, like, hey, wake up, wake up. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:00.440 You didn't call somebody, you know, but there's two thirty 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:00.960 in the morning. 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:02.840 I'm glad my friends were asleep. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:08.840 And yeah, So I don't know how how much I 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.680 wanted to get into my personal hedging or my journey. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.880 But you know, I used to be like a neutral, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.880 objective journalist at the Washington Post for ten years, and 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.760 I left a year and a half ago, and I've 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:27.400 been enjoying being an opinionated journalist. I've been writing a book. 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.880 But you know, there's a difference between being an opinionated 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.200 journalist and actually interfering in a story. Yeah, and so 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.439 I kind of hedged for a minute of like should 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.839 I should I do anything else? Should I actively participate 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.240 in trying to stop this flight? 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:45.480 You know? 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:47.920 Am I not going to get a column this job 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:48.960 someday if I do that? 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:49.839 Yeah? 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.520 You know, I'm ashamed to say that, But I have 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.319 to tell the truth. That's what I thought. And then 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.040 I just decided, you know, screw it, I have to 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.640 do the right thing. So I called the Shannon Airport Police. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.640 I called the Shannon Garda. They called the police, the 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:14.400 Garda in Ireland, and I talked to you know whatever 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.800 man answered for like a minute, and then he was like, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.480 let me let me, you know, knock you up the chain. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:25.840 And I was forwarded to someone else, to a woman 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:31.640 who you know. She sounded smart, urgent, interested, It sounded 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.880 like she was taking notes. It sounded like she was 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.240 taking this seriously. And I was saying, there is a 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.880 plane with this tail number that landed fifteen minutes ago 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:49.200 that may have people on board who have been illegally 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.679 removed from the United States, who have not consented to 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.280 go to their destination, who are being sent to Susudan 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.240 when they are not from Sau Sudan, you know. And 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.520 I made clear that like, I don't know that this 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.240 is the right plane, but I'm pretty sure that it is. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:14.240 This plane has been used before for US government business. 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.200 And I said, I know that our judges' orders don't 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:23.840 matter in your sovereign country, but a judge has said 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.640 this is not allowed, and it might be happening. And 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.520 I don't know what your human trafficking laws are like, 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.400 but you should know that if there are human trafficking 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.360 or kidnapping laws in Ireland that might apply to this, 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:45.360 like maybe check the plane. Yeah, and you know, I 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.040 didn't record the call and I didn't take notes, but 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.440 I do recall her saying that she was trying to 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.560 send someone to check the plane, and she was, you know, 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:57.800 taking detailed notes. 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.440 What are their nationalities? How many are are there? 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.800 Yeah, you know, and yes, so you know, the call 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:10.720 lasted thirteen minutes and then I waited, you know, was 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:14.320 talking with the other av geeks on Blue Sky who 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:15.520 were at this point. 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.600 You know, this is around ten pm. It's getting a 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:19.080 little late. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.760 And then yeah, I don't know what happened, but the 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:28.000 plane taxi to a parking stamp near the terminal for 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.960 a while, and I thought, oh, it's been it's been 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:33.880 turned off. It's parked for the night. I don't think 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:35.200 they're going to let him leave. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:40.280 Yeah, and then the plane took off. It was two 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:41.400 hours after it landed. 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:48.040 Yeah, yeah, and it went to Jabooty where it remains 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:52.440 at a time of recording. Yeah, it's been raised since 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.280 you first kind of identified this plane, it's been raised. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.240 I talked to Dallas or like an Irish member of 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.440 Parliament raised it today. I saw there was an exchange 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:09.400 about it. I spoke to Paul Murphy, who's the TV 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.120 for Dublin's Southwest. Oh, Paul, get me a statement I'm 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.040 going to read here. The very least Sierrish government must 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.760 do is to inform the US authorities that no more 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.160 deportation flights are permitted to use our airspace, in our airports. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.280 We must not facilitate this in humane and illegal deportation policy. 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.960 So it does seem like even if nothing was done 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.960 in this instance, hopefully this isn't something that will be 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.120 able to happen again. I know, as you said, people 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.760 have been upset about that use of Shannon. I think 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.520 they used Knock Airport as well, like for a long time, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.200 because the US use them a lot in its war 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.480 on terror. An Ireland has been a neutral country for 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.359 a long time, and that's a feeling that it compromises 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.600 that among some people. But this raise is a really 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.720 interesting question for those of us who are following the 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.720 deportations right, which is like we've been thinking that it 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.880 was on military or commercial flights, like you said, but 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.240 there's this possibility that these smaller planes are being used 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.320 for deportation, and like that's very concerning. It means we 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.640 could have missed things absolutely. It also shows the timeline 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:21.920 here is extraordinarily rapid, right from the people being informed 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:26.000 at six pm. I believe it's six pm Pacific. I've 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.040 been spending a lot of time on Pacer this week. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.000 Yeah, good old Pacer yep, A. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.159 Lot of the money generated by the adverts in this 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:37.760 show on Pacer. So six thirty five Central time, NM 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.639 who is one of the Burmese people in this this 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.720 class action lawsuit? Right? So, the lawsuit a number of 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.359 people trying to get an attentative restraining order against being Center 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.760 South who done now previously Libya? Six thirty five Central Time. 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:52.800 That person's lawyer was told that they had an order 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:58.480 of removal at nine am Pacific. The lawyer had scheduled 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.280 of video conference eight twenty seven Pacific. They were told 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:08.080 that that person had already been removed. Yeah, so pretty fast, 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:12.840 And like perhaps that's why they're using these like small 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.159 can you give an idea of like, I guess a 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:16.840 lot of people wear in a phone and small aircraft, 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.440 but these are quite like this isn't a usual thing, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:20.760 right to be. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.119 No this is a luxury jet, yeah, that you know 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:31.439 is moonlighting as a prisoner vessel for kidnappers. And I 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:38.040 just I'm so struck by the dichotomy of the luxury 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:44.879 of this vessel transporting them to Hell, to a country 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.560 where they do not speak the language, they have no 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.600 family or friends, to you know, a prison where people 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.320 are being tortured that is about to descend into civil war, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.440 may already be in civil war. I mean, the dicotomy 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.720 of that is so strike to me. Yeah, and so perverse. 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.359 Yeah, perverse is the right word. It is, like it's uh, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.359 perversely ludicrous. I don't know, Like it's so striking to 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.680 me as well that somebody who has the financial means 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.240 to own a private luxury jet to find themselves around 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:21.000 the world is also profiting off the rendition of people 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.000 who are trying now to plead in Convention against torture, right, 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.360 they will be tortured if they are flown via luxury 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.159 private jet to South Sudan, And that South Sudanese government 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:34.919 seems to have stated that it would just return them 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:36.800 to their countries from which they have withholding it for 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.840 removement in the first place. Is why the US can't 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.280 send them to their countries. Right. 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.159 That's why the US hasn't done it, right. It's like, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.680 you know, it's a diplomatic pickle, but like the solution 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.879 isn't well, just you know, dump them somewhere else. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.560 Right, yeah, and then have someone else do our daily work, 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:55.320 like send them back. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:55.840 Right. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.680 You found these contracts. Do you know how much DHS 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.320 is spending like perf light on these things? 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:02.800 I have no idea. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.800 I mean that is something that other reporters, I think, 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.120 are you know, going to be better sources of that information. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.879 I've really just begun tracking these flights. You know, I 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.320 like to track flights all the time, just because I 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:22.280 have ADHD. You know, it's a wonderful activity if you're 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.760 neurodivergent to spend some time on ADSP exchange. But like 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.840 I said, I was just like, I wonder if I 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.080 can find this plane. And I did, And that has 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.080 opened up a whole world to me of you know, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.320 really dedicated people. Tom Cartwright is one, and then JJ 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.960 and d C is another. He wants to remain anonymous, 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:50.160 who have been tracking these planes for some time, and 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.840 I'm really inspired by them and you know, want to 0:20:54.920 --> 0:21:06.000 join them. And help them. 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.680 We see a number of issues like that, we can 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.520 questions that we can answer with these things. Right, the 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.040 United States abording people to Venezuela, but there are lots 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.000 of in Venezuela which are under sanctions, right, So like 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:17.879 how is it doing that? Who is it paying to 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.199 do that? Like where is our taxpayer money going? How 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.720 much is it costing to achieve this rendition of a 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:30.520 dozen people? Right who at the current time of our recording, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:36.160 which is Thursday afternoon Pacific time, the twenty second of May, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.720 they go. I just checked the pacer again, which is 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.560 what I do all day now. And Judge Murphy's most 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.760 recent order had clarified that these people would have ten 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:52.800 days to present their reasonable fear right, so to present 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.719 their reasonable fear and convention against torture proceedings that they 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.359 would be it could face torture right if they were 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:03.560 sent to these these places. If the Department of Homeland 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.359 Security determined that they didn't have credible fear, then they 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.399 would have fifteen days to again petition for reopening of 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:14.120 their migration case. So that's twenty five days for those 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.920 who accounting that these people will presumably now have to 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:21.000 be accommodated in Jubouty. The DHS is claiming that they 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.080 can do all these interviews and that when they saystate translators, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.159 like one of them speaks Korent, not a language that 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.040 we have. I mean that there are lots of Kren 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.800 speaking people in the United States, but it's you know, 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:34.120 it's not language that many immigration lawyers speak. So I'm 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.399 guessing there will have to be a translator provided. And 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.240 so all that is now happening in Jubouty, and like, 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.760 we wouldn't have known that if we hadn't been able 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.560 to track these flights, right, And so it's a very 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:51.320 interesting way of approaching this. And I think like increasingly 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.400 the government have recently lost a number of fire requests. 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:58.720 I guess, like public records do not move at the 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:01.960 same speed as in news site does. Like I file 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.439 a lot of public records requests, most of them I 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:07.280 don't get anything back, the ones. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:09.760 That they take like eight years sometimes. 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:13.440 Yeah, literally, Yeah, I mean I have public records requests 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.679 that I made under the previous Trump administration that I 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.480 believe are still ongoing. Yeah, it's infuriatingly slowly. You have 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:22.760 a right to inspect these records, but you don't have 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.159 a right to inspect them in any particular time period. 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.399 And so doing this kind of open source tracking offers 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.439 us a window into this deportation machine that the government 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:36.240 is building right exactly in cooperation with the super rich, 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.959 like using your taxpayer resources. I would if people are 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.919