Speaker 1: Also media. Hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here.
Speaker 1: It's me James today here to bring you more terrible
Speaker 1: news about migration and deportation. And I'm joined to share
Speaker 1: that terrible news by Gillian Bruckel, a journalist who has
Speaker 1: been tracking deportation flights to Djibouti. Hi, Gillian, Hi, how
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: James?
Speaker 1: I'm good. Well, amidst the crumbling of everything, that's wonderful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is terrible news, but I'm also
Speaker 3: very excited to be in the Cool Zone universe.
Speaker 2: I love all of the shows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome, welcome to the called own universe. It's a
Speaker 1: Sophie Lichtman comic universe.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, such a fangirl.
Speaker 1: Okay. The United States government attempted to deport twelve men,
Speaker 1: all of whom are Libyan, to Libya on the seventh
Speaker 1: of May. Right, it got so far as to them
Speaker 1: to the.
Speaker 2: Airport right in San Antonio.
Speaker 1: In San Antonio, Texas. And then thanks to a injunction,
Speaker 1: a court injunction, those people were not taken to Libya.
Speaker 1: Those people were said returned to an intention center, where
Speaker 1: as listeners the show will now be aware they were
Speaker 1: informed that they were being deported renditioned, howe you want
Speaker 1: to say it to South Sudan. This news broke a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, now, I think Tuesday, Tuesday afternoon, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was when you were able to begin using
Speaker 1: your ocent aviation knowledge looking for like this this flight
Speaker 1: right that was taken them to South Sudan, because at
Speaker 1: the time the United States government was claiming that the
Speaker 1: flight was was classified or like a state secret. And
Speaker 1: even in court the judge wasn't aware of the flight
Speaker 1: was in the air on the ground, could it turn
Speaker 1: around judging the anthony was going to ask you to
Speaker 1: turn around? So I wonder if you could like walk
Speaker 1: listeners through the time none of this deportation, and then
Speaker 1: how you were able to find millions of maybe not million,
Speaker 1: thousands of planes in the sky the one that was
Speaker 1: taking these people to as it turned out to Djibooty.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I've been a journalist for fifteen years, but
Speaker 3: before that, I was a flight attendant and you know,
Speaker 3: I'm in av geek in aviation enthusiast the shorthand you know,
Speaker 3: the hashtag for that is af geek, And so you know,
Speaker 3: I'm always looking at flight Radar twenty four. It's an
Speaker 3: app where you can track different aircraft and so when
Speaker 3: I heard that the flight might still be in.
Speaker 2: The air, I just thought, I wonder if I can
Speaker 2: find it.
Speaker 3: So I went first, I went on to flight Radar
Speaker 3: twenty four, and first I looked at all of the
Speaker 3: departures out of San Antonio for like the previous twenty
Speaker 3: four hours since the previous flight that was supposed to
Speaker 3: go to Libya that was stopped, that departed from San Antonio.
Speaker 1: And so I was.
Speaker 3: Looking there and you know, didn't see anything. Just commercial flights,
Speaker 3: very obviously military flights, and I know they've used military
Speaker 3: aircraft sometimes, but I said, I'm not going to try
Speaker 3: and touch that right now. I want to see if
Speaker 3: it's one of these charter companies, you know, Global x
Speaker 3: a Vello, that have been doing these deportation flights.
Speaker 1: Can you explain those to people, because I don't think
Speaker 1: everyone's aware of those.
Speaker 3: So these are you know, commercial carriers, but they're they're
Speaker 3: contracting with DHS to deport people on their aircraft. So
Speaker 3: you know, the A three twenty that you take across
Speaker 3: the country is sometimes used to deport people to other countries,
Speaker 3: and the main companies that are doing that right now
Speaker 3: are a Vello, global X. I think Omni does some
Speaker 3: of them sometimes. And I should say there are a
Speaker 3: lot of people, especially on Blue Sky, a lot of
Speaker 3: av geeks who are tracking and cataloging all of these flights.
Speaker 3: I wasn't even aware of that community until I started
Speaker 3: looking for so I didn't see anything, you know, in
Speaker 3: San Antonio, and then I realized, oh, these people had
Speaker 3: been transferred to Port Isabelle in the last few weeks,
Speaker 3: so they would have departed out of Harlingen Airport, which
Speaker 3: is nearby. It's you know, a deep deep South Texas
Speaker 3: And so I looked at departures out of harling and
Speaker 3: it's a small airport. They have like ten departures a
Speaker 3: day and it's generally puddle jumpers from one small Texas
Speaker 3: town to another small Texas town, you know. And there
Speaker 3: was one global X flight to Miami the day before.
Speaker 3: The timeline wasn't exactly right, but I know that DHS,
Speaker 3: you know, has been slow to notify attorneys, so I thought, well,
Speaker 3: maybe this is the flight. They just didn't tell the
Speaker 3: attorneys till the next day. So then I spent way
Speaker 3: too much time looking at all of the departures out
Speaker 3: of Miami to see if there were any global ex flits.
Speaker 3: I saw a few things, but you know, nothing heading
Speaker 3: across the Atlantic. And so at that point, flight Radar
Speaker 3: twenty four will show you publicly available information on flights.
Speaker 2: It won't show you all flights.
Speaker 3: But there is another you know, for like deep deep
Speaker 3: ab geeks, there's another website called ADSB Exchange, and this
Speaker 3: is a pool of all feeder data all over the
Speaker 3: world of all aircraft in the air that aviation enthusiasts
Speaker 3: maintained themselves, and they will have military flights that aren't
Speaker 3: going to be on Flight Radar twenty four. They also
Speaker 3: have a lot more information about planes that have a
Speaker 3: LAD designation, which stands for limited Aviation Data displayed. I
Speaker 3: don't know how much you want me to explain about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, explain, explain because I think it's interesting for people.
Speaker 3: Sure, So LAD designation is used most often for like
Speaker 3: private jet owners, like celebrities and you know, the ultra rich,
Speaker 3: And basically it means that they have an extra layer
Speaker 3: of privacy for their movements in their private jets. So
Speaker 3: if you try and find a specific private jet on
Speaker 3: flight radar twenty four, it won't come up. You know.
Speaker 3: So like the tail of this plane that did the
Speaker 3: Jabooty flight is N five AA eight eight a T.
Speaker 3: If you search for that in flight radar twenty four,
Speaker 3: you won't see it. Nothing will come up. However, if
Speaker 3: you know what you're looking for, if you know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: I think the flight is heading to Djibouti right now,
Speaker 3: you can see on flight radar twenty five for that,
Speaker 3: there's a gulf Stream five had a to Djibooty right now,
Speaker 3: but the registration information is obscured.
Speaker 2: Okay, you know it's not like that on the ADSB.
Speaker 1: You can you could see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your filters have a lot more power.
Speaker 3: Basically, you know your search terms, they're going to go
Speaker 3: around different designations, okay, And so some people hate that.
Speaker 3: You know, Taylor Swift had beef with some guy a
Speaker 3: couple of years ago because she has a LAD designation
Speaker 3: on her private jet. He was using ADSB Exchange to
Speaker 3: post her flights, you know, ostensibly for to shame her
Speaker 3: for her carbon footprint. But then she like threatened to
Speaker 3: sue him, and she was like, I have stalkers, Like
Speaker 3: I don't want them.
Speaker 2: To know when I'm landing in Nashville.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, not going to get into that, but
Speaker 3: you know, that's basically the LAD designation, and ADSB doesn't care.
Speaker 3: And so I went on ADSB and I said, well,
Speaker 3: since I've already seen all the publicly available flights, let
Speaker 3: me just look at LAD flights, okay, And so I
Speaker 3: set that filter and that took it down to a
Speaker 3: couple hundred planes in the air, and I honestly just
Speaker 3: got lucky. I just started clicking on planes because I
Speaker 3: don't know how to search for all departures out of
Speaker 3: one airport on ADSP Exchange. I'm sure AV geeks who
Speaker 3: are better at it do, but I just started clicking
Speaker 3: on planes and I clicked. I think like the third
Speaker 3: plane that I clicked on had taken off out of
Speaker 3: Harlingen a couple hours earlier and was over the middle
Speaker 3: of the Atlantic, which is not a usual departure for Harlingen.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's quite.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I posted on Blue Sky to
Speaker 3: the other AV geeks who were looking for it.
Speaker 2: I think this might be it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a private jet with a LAD designation
Speaker 3: that took off from this very obscure airport and it's
Speaker 3: traveling internationally. Nothing else really fit the right, so we
Speaker 3: all started looking at it. Another reporter named Jacqueline Sweet.
Speaker 3: You know, I looked up the registration. It's registered to
Speaker 3: a man named Igor Smirnov, which there are a lot
Speaker 3: of Igor Smirnov's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty common name.
Speaker 3: He's not the Chess guy, he's not the Moldovan guy.
Speaker 3: He appears to have once owned an airline in his
Speaker 3: Pakistan and has been in the US for some time.
Speaker 3: So he has, you know, this private jet. And then
Speaker 3: Jacqueline Sweet looked up that yes, he has DHS contracts.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then the other thing was I just googled the tail
Speaker 3: number M five eight eight eight. One of the first
Speaker 3: things that came up was that this was the private
Speaker 3: jet that carried Britney Griner home from Russia when she
Speaker 3: had been.
Speaker 2: Released in a prisoner swat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that, you know, was the thing where
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, this this plane's been used for
Speaker 3: like weird government business before. Yeah, Like I think I
Speaker 3: think this might be it. Yeah, So that's when I posted.
Speaker 3: Once I realized the Britney Grinder thing, then I posted
Speaker 3: it and other people, other av geeks were.
Speaker 2: Saying, yeah, I think that might be it.
Speaker 3: And then you know, Jacqueline got more info on the
Speaker 3: contracts and so this is for about two hours we
Speaker 3: watched it and JJ and DC said, I think it's
Speaker 3: about to land in Shannon, and you know, soon enough
Speaker 3: it descended and landed at Shannon. Yep.
Speaker 2: So Shannon Airport in Ireland.
Speaker 3: Is a frequent refueling stop for the US military, and
Speaker 3: you know that's something that a lot of Irish people
Speaker 3: really fucking hate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not a US base, to be clear, if people.
Speaker 3: On a way, Yeah, it's not a US base. These
Speaker 3: are this is US military that are just they're just refueling,
Speaker 3: but they're refueling to you know, do a lot of
Speaker 3: things that the Irish are not okay with.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so there's there's an organization there called Shannon Watch,
Speaker 3: who you know, they're watching all these US activities and
Speaker 3: you know, pressuring the government to stop this. So you know,
Speaker 3: I tried to email them before the plane even landed,
Speaker 3: and I don't know if it was user error on
Speaker 3: my end or you know, if I don't know why
Speaker 3: I didn't work, but they didn't get the message. I
Speaker 3: only found that out like half an hour ago. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but so I messaged them, and then I like messaged
Speaker 3: a couple friends in Ireland, like, hey, wake up, wake up.
Speaker 3: You didn't call somebody, you know, but there's two thirty
Speaker 3: in the morning.
Speaker 2: I'm glad my friends were asleep.
Speaker 3: And yeah, So I don't know how how much I
Speaker 3: wanted to get into my personal hedging or my journey.
Speaker 3: But you know, I used to be like a neutral,
Speaker 3: objective journalist at the Washington Post for ten years, and
Speaker 3: I left a year and a half ago, and I've
Speaker 3: been enjoying being an opinionated journalist. I've been writing a book.
Speaker 3: But you know, there's a difference between being an opinionated
Speaker 3: journalist and actually interfering in a story. Yeah, and so
Speaker 3: I kind of hedged for a minute of like should
Speaker 3: I should I do anything else? Should I actively participate
Speaker 3: in trying to stop this flight?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Am I not going to get a column this job
Speaker 2: someday if I do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know, I'm ashamed to say that, But I have
Speaker 3: to tell the truth. That's what I thought. And then
Speaker 3: I just decided, you know, screw it, I have to
Speaker 3: do the right thing. So I called the Shannon Airport Police.
Speaker 3: I called the Shannon Garda. They called the police, the
Speaker 3: Garda in Ireland, and I talked to you know whatever
Speaker 3: man answered for like a minute, and then he was like,
Speaker 3: let me let me, you know, knock you up the chain.
Speaker 3: And I was forwarded to someone else, to a woman
Speaker 3: who you know. She sounded smart, urgent, interested, It sounded
Speaker 3: like she was taking notes. It sounded like she was
Speaker 3: taking this seriously. And I was saying, there is a
Speaker 3: plane with this tail number that landed fifteen minutes ago
Speaker 3: that may have people on board who have been illegally
Speaker 3: removed from the United States, who have not consented to
Speaker 3: go to their destination, who are being sent to Susudan
Speaker 3: when they are not from Sau Sudan, you know. And
Speaker 3: I made clear that like, I don't know that this
Speaker 3: is the right plane, but I'm pretty sure that it is.
Speaker 3: This plane has been used before for US government business.
Speaker 3: And I said, I know that our judges' orders don't
Speaker 3: matter in your sovereign country, but a judge has said
Speaker 3: this is not allowed, and it might be happening. And
Speaker 3: I don't know what your human trafficking laws are like,
Speaker 3: but you should know that if there are human trafficking
Speaker 3: or kidnapping laws in Ireland that might apply to this,
Speaker 3: like maybe check the plane. Yeah, and you know, I
Speaker 3: didn't record the call and I didn't take notes, but
Speaker 3: I do recall her saying that she was trying to
Speaker 3: send someone to check the plane, and she was, you know,
Speaker 3: taking detailed notes.
Speaker 2: What are their nationalities? How many are are there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and yes, so you know, the call
Speaker 3: lasted thirteen minutes and then I waited, you know, was
Speaker 3: talking with the other av geeks on Blue Sky who
Speaker 3: were at this point.
Speaker 2: You know, this is around ten pm. It's getting a
Speaker 2: little late.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I don't know what happened, but the
Speaker 3: plane taxi to a parking stamp near the terminal for
Speaker 3: a while, and I thought, oh, it's been it's been
Speaker 3: turned off. It's parked for the night. I don't think
Speaker 3: they're going to let him leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the plane took off. It was two
Speaker 2: hours after it landed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it went to Jabooty where it remains
Speaker 1: at a time of recording. Yeah, it's been raised since
Speaker 1: you first kind of identified this plane, it's been raised.
Speaker 1: I talked to Dallas or like an Irish member of
Speaker 1: Parliament raised it today. I saw there was an exchange
Speaker 1: about it. I spoke to Paul Murphy, who's the TV
Speaker 1: for Dublin's Southwest. Oh, Paul, get me a statement I'm
Speaker 1: going to read here. The very least Sierrish government must
Speaker 1: do is to inform the US authorities that no more
Speaker 1: deportation flights are permitted to use our airspace, in our airports.
Speaker 1: We must not facilitate this in humane and illegal deportation policy.
Speaker 1: So it does seem like even if nothing was done
Speaker 1: in this instance, hopefully this isn't something that will be
Speaker 1: able to happen again. I know, as you said, people
Speaker 1: have been upset about that use of Shannon. I think
Speaker 1: they used Knock Airport as well, like for a long time,
Speaker 1: because the US use them a lot in its war
Speaker 1: on terror. An Ireland has been a neutral country for
Speaker 1: a long time, and that's a feeling that it compromises
Speaker 1: that among some people. But this raise is a really
Speaker 1: interesting question for those of us who are following the
Speaker 1: deportations right, which is like we've been thinking that it
Speaker 1: was on military or commercial flights, like you said, but
Speaker 1: there's this possibility that these smaller planes are being used
Speaker 1: for deportation, and like that's very concerning. It means we
Speaker 1: could have missed things absolutely. It also shows the timeline
Speaker 1: here is extraordinarily rapid, right from the people being informed
Speaker 1: at six pm. I believe it's six pm Pacific. I've
Speaker 1: been spending a lot of time on Pacer this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good old Pacer yep, A.
Speaker 1: Lot of the money generated by the adverts in this
Speaker 1: show on Pacer. So six thirty five Central time, NM
Speaker 1: who is one of the Burmese people in this this
Speaker 1: class action lawsuit? Right? So, the lawsuit a number of
Speaker 1: people trying to get an attentative restraining order against being Center
Speaker 1: South who done now previously Libya? Six thirty five Central Time.
Speaker 1: That person's lawyer was told that they had an order
Speaker 1: of removal at nine am Pacific. The lawyer had scheduled
Speaker 1: of video conference eight twenty seven Pacific. They were told
Speaker 1: that that person had already been removed. Yeah, so pretty fast,
Speaker 1: And like perhaps that's why they're using these like small
Speaker 1: can you give an idea of like, I guess a
Speaker 1: lot of people wear in a phone and small aircraft,
Speaker 1: but these are quite like this isn't a usual thing,
Speaker 1: right to be.
Speaker 3: No this is a luxury jet, yeah, that you know
Speaker 3: is moonlighting as a prisoner vessel for kidnappers. And I
Speaker 3: just I'm so struck by the dichotomy of the luxury
Speaker 3: of this vessel transporting them to Hell, to a country
Speaker 3: where they do not speak the language, they have no
Speaker 3: family or friends, to you know, a prison where people
Speaker 3: are being tortured that is about to descend into civil war,
Speaker 3: may already be in civil war. I mean, the dicotomy
Speaker 3: of that is so strike to me. Yeah, and so perverse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, perverse is the right word. It is, like it's uh,
Speaker 1: perversely ludicrous. I don't know, Like it's so striking to
Speaker 1: me as well that somebody who has the financial means
Speaker 1: to own a private luxury jet to find themselves around
Speaker 1: the world is also profiting off the rendition of people
Speaker 1: who are trying now to plead in Convention against torture, right,
Speaker 1: they will be tortured if they are flown via luxury
Speaker 1: private jet to South Sudan, And that South Sudanese government
Speaker 1: seems to have stated that it would just return them
Speaker 1: to their countries from which they have withholding it for
Speaker 1: removement in the first place. Is why the US can't
Speaker 1: send them to their countries. Right.
Speaker 3: That's why the US hasn't done it, right. It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a diplomatic pickle, but like the solution
Speaker 3: isn't well, just you know, dump them somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and then have someone else do our daily work,
Speaker 1: like send them back.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You found these contracts. Do you know how much DHS
Speaker 1: is spending like perf light on these things?
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: I mean that is something that other reporters, I think,
Speaker 3: are you know, going to be better sources of that information.
Speaker 3: I've really just begun tracking these flights. You know, I
Speaker 3: like to track flights all the time, just because I
Speaker 3: have ADHD. You know, it's a wonderful activity if you're
Speaker 3: neurodivergent to spend some time on ADSP exchange. But like
Speaker 3: I said, I was just like, I wonder if I
Speaker 3: can find this plane. And I did, And that has
Speaker 3: opened up a whole world to me of you know,
Speaker 3: really dedicated people. Tom Cartwright is one, and then JJ
Speaker 3: and d C is another. He wants to remain anonymous,
Speaker 3: who have been tracking these planes for some time, and
Speaker 3: I'm really inspired by them and you know, want to
Speaker 3: join them. And help them.
Speaker 1: We see a number of issues like that, we can
Speaker 1: questions that we can answer with these things. Right, the
Speaker 1: United States abording people to Venezuela, but there are lots
Speaker 1: of in Venezuela which are under sanctions, right, So like
Speaker 1: how is it doing that? Who is it paying to
Speaker 1: do that? Like where is our taxpayer money going? How
Speaker 1: much is it costing to achieve this rendition of a
Speaker 1: dozen people? Right who at the current time of our recording,
Speaker 1: which is Thursday afternoon Pacific time, the twenty second of May,
Speaker 1: they go. I just checked the pacer again, which is
Speaker 1: what I do all day now. And Judge Murphy's most
Speaker 1: recent order had clarified that these people would have ten
Speaker 1: days to present their reasonable fear right, so to present
Speaker 1: their reasonable fear and convention against torture proceedings that they
Speaker 1: would be it could face torture right if they were
Speaker 1: sent to these these places. If the Department of Homeland
Speaker 1: Security determined that they didn't have credible fear, then they
Speaker 1: would have fifteen days to again petition for reopening of
Speaker 1: their migration case. So that's twenty five days for those
Speaker 1: who accounting that these people will presumably now have to
Speaker 1: be accommodated in Jubouty. The DHS is claiming that they
Speaker 1: can do all these interviews and that when they saystate translators,
Speaker 1: like one of them speaks Korent, not a language that
Speaker 1: we have. I mean that there are lots of Kren
Speaker 1: speaking people in the United States, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's not language that many immigration lawyers speak. So I'm
Speaker 1: guessing there will have to be a translator provided. And
Speaker 1: so all that is now happening in Jubouty, and like,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have known that if we hadn't been able
Speaker 1: to track these flights, right, And so it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting way of approaching this. And I think like increasingly
Speaker 1: the government have recently lost a number of fire requests.
Speaker 1: I guess, like public records do not move at the
Speaker 1: same speed as in news site does. Like I file
Speaker 1: a lot of public records requests, most of them I
Speaker 1: don't get anything back, the ones.
Speaker 2: That they take like eight years sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, literally, Yeah, I mean I have public records requests
Speaker 1: that I made under the previous Trump administration that I
Speaker 1: believe are still ongoing. Yeah, it's infuriatingly slowly. You have
Speaker 1: a right to inspect these records, but you don't have
Speaker 1: a right to inspect them in any particular time period.
Speaker 1: And so doing this kind of open source tracking offers
Speaker 1: us a window into this deportation machine that the government
Speaker 1: is building right exactly in cooperation with the super rich,
Speaker 1: like using your taxpayer resources. I would if people are
Speaker 1: interested in doing this, like, how would you suggest they
Speaker 1: kind of get going? They could explainers out there.
Speaker 3: I mean the first thing I would do is that
Speaker 3: I would follow Tom Cartwright and JJ and DC on
Speaker 3: Blue Sky. Then you know, get the flight Radar twenty
Speaker 3: four app. You can see a lot of the charter
Speaker 3: planes on app. Adsp exchange is pretty buggy and hard
Speaker 3: to use if you don't have any aviation experience.
Speaker 2: At all, but you know you can learn. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: uh yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: Like I said, if you're neuro divergent, this is a
Speaker 3: terrific activity to just kind of like massage your brain
Speaker 3: and hyper focus, and you know, putting it to good
Speaker 3: purpose to maybe witness or maybe even stop some of
Speaker 3: these activities from happening, you know, would be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's uh, Like there are countries
Speaker 1: which have strong legislation that can possibly prevent these You know,
Speaker 1: these either planes transiting their airspace or if they're refueling
Speaker 1: there as you as you said in an Ireland like
Speaker 1: perhaps prevent these people being renditioned to somewhere where they
Speaker 1: might face torture. And I think it's a really valuable
Speaker 1: absolutely thing to try, Like we should try whatever we
Speaker 1: can right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean now that Ireland knows this is happening.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what happened with the Garda
Speaker 3: on Tuesday night early Wednesday morning. I don't know if
Speaker 3: they were able to board the plane, if they tried
Speaker 3: to stop it and couldn't.
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now that they know this is happening, maybe they
Speaker 3: can look a little bit deeper into their laws and
Speaker 3: regulations and find a justification so that if this happens again,
Speaker 3: they can be prepared to respond. You know, I know
Speaker 3: that the Irish are exemplars in human rights, and so
Speaker 3: you know, if anybody is going to do something, it
Speaker 3: might be them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know. Artie and now camped out at
Speaker 1: the airport wing for the plane to come back, which yeah.
Speaker 3: I know, I wish they had checked with the av
Speaker 3: geeks first, because the plane's not on the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no it's not.
Speaker 2: It hasn't left.
Speaker 1: Look at the coat proceedings. It's going to be three weeks.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's great. You've made this an issue there,
Speaker 1: which I think, Yeah, it helps, Like all this stuff
Speaker 1: makes a difference.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just I want the Irish people to realize,
Speaker 3: because none of their lawmakers have said it yet, that
Speaker 3: Irish authorities knew when the plane was on the ground
Speaker 3: at Shannon that there were people who are possibly being
Speaker 3: illegally detained on this specific airplane.
Speaker 2: I just want them to know that. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: And I'm I hear that their public information laws are
Speaker 3: also not great. But the police there recorded the call,
Speaker 3: so there's a recording somewhere if they can find it.
Speaker 1: Right, I guess I can't find anyone who can answer
Speaker 1: the satisfactory the question of like whose jurisdiction the plane
Speaker 1: is under?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and it really depends too, like was
Speaker 3: the plane parked in the international transit area? Was it
Speaker 3: in a place where you know, the guard I didn't
Speaker 3: even have authority, I have no idea, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are real questions we can now ask because
Speaker 1: we know right that it was there. And I think
Speaker 1: that's very valuable. Glean where can people follow your work? Said?
Speaker 1: You published this on your ghost newsletter first.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I'm writing a book, so I post extremely sporadically,
Speaker 3: but I do have a ghost newsletter. It's hard g
Speaker 3: History because it's hard. G Gillian Hard, Ghistory dot ghost
Speaker 3: dot io. And then I'm on Blue Sky at g
Speaker 3: Brackel Nice.
Speaker 1: Do you want to plug your book where you have
Speaker 1: the opportunity.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's not like a you know, pre order links.
Speaker 3: I'm very much still writing it, but you know, my
Speaker 3: agent will be mad at me for saying this. The
Speaker 3: working title is people didn't know what was wrong back then,
Speaker 3: the lie at the heart of American History.
Speaker 1: I will look forward to reading that.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for having me, James, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 3: Polsonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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Speaker 3: now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly
Speaker 3: in episode descriptions.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.