1
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: Pishology, episode fourteen on The Fish on First Podcast Network,

2
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: Different Voice if you're listening on audio, Different Faith if.

3
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 2: You're on YouTube. Danny had to call in the bullpen.

4
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: I am here hosting in this place today. We have

5
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: as always Eli, Sustan Lewis, Adio Weiss. We're talking, Brian Hoeing,

6
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: Sandy al Contra. Third time through the order, so is

7
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 1: the bullpen maybe getting a little bit lucky? And then

8
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 1: as always the stat head segment, Eli Lewis, how you

9
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 1: guys doing lots to get into today?

10
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 3: Doing good? Doing good?

11
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 4: keV, it is it's always better to record this. My

12
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 4: biggest fear is when the Marlins get swept by the Braves.

13
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 4: The day after and the night after. That's that is

14
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 4: the worst for somebody running a Marlins site. You get

15
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 4: overrun by all the trolls and that. So for the

16
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 4: team to win this particular game right before we're recording this,

17
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 4: it makes my life a lot easier. And you filling

18
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 4: in for Daniel so that we could still do the

19
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 4: show on time. That's they appreciate it, Kevin. So yeah,

20
00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 4: let's do this.

21
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 3: Matt Stayers and technology, So.

22
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,320
Speaker 1: I think the first player we're going to talk about

23
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: is obviously Brian Hoeing. He got the call up I

24
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: think it was Tuesday, and he started in place of

25
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 1: Trevor Rodgers, who is on the I. L. Haween was

26
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: having a good year in triple A. He had his

27
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,039
Speaker 1: highest k pernin of his career. Low E ra A

28
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: really not much to complain about Villos, you know, take

29
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: up in Villo. It was really encouraging what we were

30
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 1: seeing from someone like Hoeing. Unfortunately he did not have

31
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 1: the greatest outing against the Braves, but who can blame

32
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 1: himist the Braves and your in Truest Park. He gave

33
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 1: up four runs, two strikeouts, two walks. Lewis Howard, you

34
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: assess this start and if you have anything to add

35
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 1: on someone like Brian Hoing, who we know Alex Carver

36
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 1: is very high on.

37
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 3: I thought, you know, after that first inning run he allowed,

38
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 3: he settled in for the next couple of innings, and

39
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 3: then you know, the fourth inning came and things kind

40
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 3: of fell apart a little bit. I don't believe now

41
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,959
Speaker 3: he's made two big league starts in his career, both

42
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 3: against premium lineups, the Dodgers and the Braves, and he's

43
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 3: failed to make it out of the fourth inning in

44
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 3: either of them. But you know, I mean it's stuff wise,

45
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 3: I think the stuff looked a little bit better. You know,

46
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,640
Speaker 3: there was Velosy was up on the sinker. He was

47
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 3: throwing the chang the curve ball a little harder. But

48
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 3: the spin rate was down a lot of his pitches,

49
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 3: and you know, the spin rate fell a little bit

50
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 3: on the change up, a little bit I think in

51
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,799
Speaker 3: triple A, which may have caused some people to think

52
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,440
Speaker 3: that that'd be a good thing, because I guess if

53
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,399
Speaker 3: your change up tends to have less spin, it tends

54
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 3: to have more movement, and it tends to be more effective.

55
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,560
Speaker 3: So I guess that's good. But you know, I mean

56
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 3: he got hit around pretty hard. You know, the line

57
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 3: may not suggest it totally because it's not like he

58
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 3: gave up seven rounds. To believe it was something like four

59
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,800
Speaker 3: runs and three again, you know, it's he's back in

60
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,959
Speaker 3: the big leagues, and I guess it's just they don't

61
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 3: want to call up Uri Perez, so you kind of

62
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 3: had to go to next man up, and Hoeing is

63
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 3: a guy who can provide you length. I think maybe

64
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 3: long term he profiles more as a reliever, but We've

65
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,360
Speaker 3: seen this a myriad of times and pictures early parts

66
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 3: of their career where you know they're starters and as

67
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 3: being drafted as such, and then you just kind of

68
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 3: see time play out and they either become relievers or

69
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 3: they just kind of go by the wayside and sport.

70
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 3: And I think Hoing's maybe his long term high, highest

71
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 3: ceiling at least for him to stick in the big

72
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 3: leagues is as a reliever, maybe as like a swingman type,

73
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 3: like a Stripling or a Jesse Chavez earlier in his career.

74
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 3: But you know, he was encouraging that he was throwing

75
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,160
Speaker 3: a little bit harder, he was striking guys out, wasn't

76
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 3: walking many guys in the miners. But you know, the

77
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 3: Triple A and the big leagues, they are two totally

78
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 3: different animals. Listen, hopefully he'll get another start. Who knows

79
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 3: he's pending. I believe he's the probable starter for Sunday,

80
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 3: So we'll see if how he does again. But you know,

81
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 3: I think there could be worse options to fill in

82
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 3: for you know, the likes of Johnny Quato and such,

83
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 3: when Trevor Rodgers when they're hurt. But I guess, you know,

84
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 3: it's kind of just going to be next man up

85
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 3: until either of those guys come back. There's going to

86
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 3: be a vacancy until Quato or Rogers resumed pitching in

87
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 3: the big leagues.

88
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, you touched on it right there at the ends.

89
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,599
Speaker 4: Why Hoeing is he's an important piece of this Marlins team.

90
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,840
Speaker 4: I don't know if people are comfortable hearing that, but

91
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 4: Brian Hoing is a key player for the Marlins for

92
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 4: perhaps an extended period of time because of those two absences,

93
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,240
Speaker 4: Quato in Trevor Rodgers. Quato still relatively early in his progression,

94
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 4: hasn't even begun a formal rehab assignment yet, and I

95
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,119
Speaker 4: don't think Trevor Rodgers is necessarily throwing at the moment

96
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 4: at all. So that shows you how far he's away

97
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 4: from getting all the white built up, both of them

98
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 4: coming off of biceps injuries. Hoeing, as we see as

99
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 4: we speak, he is penciled in for Sunday, or I

100
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 4: should say he is listed officially on Sunday. He's going

101
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 4: to make at least one more start. And that's kind

102
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 4: of why I brought up this idea to talk about

103
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 4: him in the first place, because I think that barring

104
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 4: a catastrophe, he's going to be making several starts for

105
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,559
Speaker 4: this team that has a lack of other starting depth

106
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 4: pieces at this particular moment with him, I want to

107
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 4: remind people as much as we saw from him last year,

108
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,480
Speaker 4: he only made that one start and then he got

109
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 4: sent down, and then he got moved into the bullpen.

110
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 4: He made just that one start against the Dodgers, and

111
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 4: we know as a disaster.

112
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 5: But I wanted to.

113
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 4: Note that the uptick and stuff from last year to

114
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 4: this year is even more significant than you might think

115
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 4: at first glance, because as a starter in that one

116
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 4: outing last year, he was only averaging ninety two on

117
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,239
Speaker 4: his sinker and in this start ninety four point six,

118
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 4: so two and a half miles per hour up from

119
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,920
Speaker 4: where he was as a starter in the bullpen. It's

120
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,640
Speaker 4: a lot easier for you to give more efforts and

121
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 4: to elevate those numbers. But in terms of as a starter,

122
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 4: this is a pretty significant difference from that aspect, And

123
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 4: what I have on the screen is another reminder how

124
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 4: dependent he was on his sinker last year, So he

125
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,280
Speaker 4: wasn't throwing it hard, yet he was throwing it all

126
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 4: the time, and it was such a terrible pitch. It

127
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,279
Speaker 4: was one of the very worst sinkers in all of baseball.

128
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,479
Speaker 4: If you look at a run value basis. We brought

129
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 4: up run value on phisiology. Before you know how many

130
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 4: runs you give up on a pitch relative to the

131
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,720
Speaker 4: league average based on not just the damage that's done,

132
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 4: but also the balls that you throw on that pitch overall.

133
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 4: He just had so little success with his sinker last year,

134
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 4: and now it seems to be a better pitch because

135
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 4: he's throwing it harder, and also because he's throwing it less.

136
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 4: You don't want to depend so much on one pitch.

137
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 4: So his willingness to throw his slader more and the

138
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 4: fact that his sladders improved, this is what holding on

139
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 4: the map in the first place.

140
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 5: In twenty twenty two.

141
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,280
Speaker 4: It's I think it's easy to forget that this time

142
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 4: a year ago he got off to another great start

143
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 4: in the miners. That was with double A, so he

144
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 4: earned his promotion after a few hot starts, and a

145
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,360
Speaker 4: big reason why he got off to that start is

146
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,359
Speaker 4: because of that slider. He spent that previous offseason really

147
00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 4: fine tuning it, getting extra late movement on it. As

148
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 4: Kevin noted that what we were seeing trip a from

149
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 4: him this year, all the strikeouts. I wouldn't say that's

150
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,359
Speaker 4: all about the fastball velocity. I think that's equal measures

151
00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 4: between the fastball velow and improvement of his slider. Hoeing

152
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,280
Speaker 4: a long look and the two pitch got him to

153
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 4: chase and that'll complete the inning. In this start against

154
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 4: the Braves, he threw it almost fifty to fifty between

155
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 4: those two pitches, barely even use his change up. So

156
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 4: we're gonna need a bigger sample. Yeah, we're gonna need

157
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 4: a bigger sample to see exactly who he is if

158
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,920
Speaker 4: he's willing to use that change up more often. It

159
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 4: did surprise me how short his outing was. That they

160
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 4: pulled him at about sixty five pitches instead of fully

161
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 4: stretching him out as a starter. That's gonna be a

162
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 4: bigger test against the Cubs. It's not only how he

163
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 4: does against that opponent, but also if they do give

164
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 4: him that leash to go a third time through the

165
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 4: lineup with Hoeing. So I don't think the upside is

166
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 4: all that exciting, but I am a little more confident

167
00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 4: in him than the final line he had.

168
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 5: Again, the phrase would suggest.

169
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 1: Any anything else you want to add to that, lewis

170
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 1: any stat that may you know, stick when it comes

171
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: to Holing of it's minor league statter in his first

172
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 1: start of twenty twenty three.

173
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I've you know, if I marriated this

174
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 3: in the many discussions I've had with Alex Carver, who

175
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 3: uh we as we we know affectionately is fish on

176
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,800
Speaker 3: for fish on the Farm, Marlin's miners on Twitter. You know,

177
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 3: Hoeing's ceiling is that of a guy who's just gonna

178
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 3: throw a lot of strikes. I mean, if you look

179
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,319
Speaker 3: at his walk rates in the minor leagues, He's never

180
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 3: been a guy to really possess extended periods of not

181
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 3: knowing where the ball is going. And that's a good thing.

182
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,440
Speaker 3: But I guess it's kind of like Braxton Garrett in

183
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,679
Speaker 3: a sense where like Garrett is and that's a guy

184
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 3: I'm high on, although I've noted several times I have

185
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,199
Speaker 3: already measured and tapered down and tampered expectations with him

186
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 3: because of the stuff. He throws a lot of strikes,

187
00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 3: so he'll give up a lot of hits. And Howing's

188
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,440
Speaker 3: whip suggests that in the minor leagues. He's generally like

189
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,400
Speaker 3: a one to three, one four one with guy. And again,

190
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 3: those guys who do that while throwing a lot of

191
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 3: strikes do it because they've thrown a lot of strikes.

192
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 3: Essentially they're giving up a lot of hits. And I think,

193
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,920
Speaker 3: like that's the kind of guy that Howing's gonna be.

194
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,199
Speaker 3: He's like your seventh or eighth starter on a team.

195
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,400
Speaker 3: And you know, realistically that's just now, but long term,

196
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,560
Speaker 3: I think he's more of a reliever. Like I said,

197
00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 3: I don't think you can expect much, but whatever he

198
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 3: does give you a positive value is a plus. And again,

199
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,200
Speaker 3: I think that's just kind of the mindset you have

200
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 3: to have with a guy like that because he wasn't

201
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 3: a high prospect. The minor league numbers don't wow you,

202
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 3: but he's a you know, he is what we aren't

203
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,599
Speaker 3: and he's a big league pitcher and he's I'm on

204
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,320
Speaker 3: the lower end of that spectrum, but he he is

205
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 3: still one. So again, whatever he gives you a positive

206
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 3: note I think is a plus. I don't you know there.

207
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,840
Speaker 3: I don't think there is much more to really say

208
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,080
Speaker 3: about that, but you know, you know, well, wish him

209
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,120
Speaker 3: the best Hopefully he continues to do well as he

210
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 3: gets more opportunities.

211
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 1: Something I wanted to add about Hoeing is that just

212
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 1: look at the teams he's faced. He's faced the Dodgers,

213
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,040
Speaker 1: who I think at the time already over one hundred wins.

214
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,960
Speaker 1: That's a very good lineup. And then he faced the Braves,

215
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 1: which is another really good lineup of Matt Olson, Akunya Alvis.

216
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,760
Speaker 1: So not that I'm saying he, you know, he should

217
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: be dominating these guys, but Govin give him a little leeway.

218
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,959
Speaker 1: Now he's going against the Chicago team, which is a

219
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: good Chicago team, but it's not what you know, it's

220
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 1: not the Dodgers and the Braves that we saw last year.

221
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,959
Speaker 1: And I think now we can move on to Sandy,

222
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 1: who you guys were talking about off camera before we

223
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,800
Speaker 1: started filming, that he's had his troubles in the third

224
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: time through the order. He's having, you know, kind of

225
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: a struggle this year. There's just no other way to say.

226
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 1: He has a five points or a fort era. Thankfully,

227
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: his FIP is at a three point eighty, which kind

228
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: of goes to tell you how much he doesn't really

229
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 1: really need to rely on how much the defense behind

230
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 1: him is really kind of screwed up for him and himself.

231
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: He had a mental error in that Arizona game where

232
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: he dropped the ball, and he's you know, we saw

233
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 1: the Brian de la Cruz er in that Arizona start again,

234
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, putting up a locate for nine. He just

235
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: hasn't looked like himself, Lewis, So what can you say

236
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 1: about seeing him then if you want to get into

237
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,719
Speaker 1: what his stats are in that third time through the

238
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: order and just what goes what issues?

239
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 2: Have you seen what Sandy does for?

240
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll let Eli segant the third time through

241
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,080
Speaker 3: the order, But I think that a lot of the

242
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,959
Speaker 3: concerns I'm having with him are just you know, the

243
00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 3: expected stats are just terrible on multiple offerings. So I

244
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,480
Speaker 3: was talking to you guys earlier today before we were

245
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 3: doing some pre show planning, and you know, Sandy Sinker

246
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 3: last year was excellent, and we know that because it

247
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 3: was you know, his calling card was a guy who

248
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 3: threw ninety eight and then do so much weak contact

249
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 3: because he was a heavy ground ball guy. Now this

250
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 3: year it's not good. So hitters are hitting two seventy five.

251
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 3: You know, you can still be a big league picture

252
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,800
Speaker 3: and you know, allow with too sixty plus batting average

253
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 3: and still be successful. We saw Andy pettitt I believe

254
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 3: hitters hit two sixty nine for their career off of him,

255
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 3: but the expected stats suggest it's worst expected batting average

256
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 3: on the on the sinker three point fifty, a five

257
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 3: hundred slug, a six fifteen expected slug. And then you

258
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,680
Speaker 3: transition over to the change up. The hitters are hitting

259
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 3: two ninety six with an expected slug of four thirty seven,

260
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 3: not terrible. But then you look at the exit velocity

261
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 3: and you see that the UH overall his average exit

262
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 3: velocity against him is the highest it's been in about

263
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 3: three or four years. So you can kind of see like, okay,

264
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,240
Speaker 3: like this is five starts, and like it's a long season,

265
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 3: as we'd like to say, and you know, how much

266
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,360
Speaker 3: do we buy into small sample size, but five starts

267
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,000
Speaker 3: is pretty much a month's worth of pitching for a

268
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 3: pitcher that can make or break a season when it

269
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 3: comes to several different things when you're you know, evaluating

270
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,520
Speaker 3: something like that. But then you look at the fact

271
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,080
Speaker 3: that his changeup also has an odd oddly enough, like

272
00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 3: it's all or nothing. It's kind of like the Joey

273
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,199
Speaker 3: Gallow of pitches right now. And I and this is

274
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 3: what I mean when I say that it's got a

275
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,200
Speaker 3: thirty six point four percent put away rate, so he's

276
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 3: able to like use it as like a strikeout pitch.

277
00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 3: But again with the numbers that I just noted, hitters

278
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 3: are still doing damage on it when they are touching it,

279
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 3: and like you know, they're hitting the ball ninety one

280
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,040
Speaker 3: miles an hour off of him. So I don't know,

281
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 3: I mean, like then you look like, look at where

282
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 3: that pitch ranks, Like I believe there's about fifty or

283
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 3: so fifty two pitchers who have thrown at least this

284
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,719
Speaker 3: is like twenty five plate appearances ending on Like we'll

285
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 3: go back to the sinker. It's got the lowest wift

286
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 3: rate in the majors among any pitcher with at least

287
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 3: twenty five playerp princes ending on the Seker eight point

288
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 3: three percent. He's not a strike up pitcher, we understand that.

289
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,719
Speaker 3: But as you noted, Kevin, his strikeout rate is down.

290
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,959
Speaker 3: He's seven point seven case for nine and one thing

291
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 3: we kind of a lauded a little bit was in

292
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 3: twenty twenty in that COVID shortened season, though it was

293
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,719
Speaker 3: just six starts, his strikeout rate gradually increased, and then

294
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 3: he kind of kept it around eight for the last

295
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 3: couple of years. You know, the difference between eight point

296
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 3: one case for nine and seven point seven is five

297
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,439
Speaker 3: or six stuts here and there, depending on the volume

298
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 3: of nager you're pitching. But when it's five starts and

299
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 3: he's you know, albeit we've like you noted, he is

300
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 3: being he has been a little unlucky by what his

301
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 3: fit to era ratio suggests, and then you see the

302
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 3: whip is a lot more respectable. It's one one five.

303
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 3: The hits for nine are still good. At seven point

304
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 3: seven per nine, you know, it's about a hit more

305
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 3: than anybody allowed last year. You still look at the

306
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 3: total body of work and you think this has to

307
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 3: level out at some point. But like, is the leveling

308
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 3: out like what we kind of saw in the years prior,

309
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 3: where he's like pitching to like a mid three Zra.

310
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 3: That's what I think realistically. I think you know a

311
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 3: lot of pitchers and even players in general in most sports,

312
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 3: they'll have one career year that's far and above away

313
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 3: better than anything they ever did, and then you kind

314
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,320
Speaker 3: of just see some means of regression if you're not,

315
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 3: you know, unless you're an all time great and you

316
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 3: continue to get better and you just or sustain the

317
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 3: level of performance. But I think, you know, like and

318
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 3: I said it before the season, Sandy's defense behind him.

319
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,920
Speaker 3: The Marlins don't have the best defense, though there are

320
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 3: some guys that I think we've touched on another streams

321
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 3: that have surprised us, like Arise I think is quite

322
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 3: a competent second base at least. The defense overall, though

323
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 3: doesn't help him, and like a lot of the underlying

324
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 3: metrics suggests that. But yeah, like his changeup and his

325
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 3: singer both have plus two run values. That's not good.

326
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 3: Anything above zero is not good. Anything at zero's average

327
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 3: and below you kind of get the GISTs. But he's

328
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 3: just not you know, he there, he does look different.

329
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 3: The last thing I'll have before I let you go

330
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 3: go to you, Eli, is the flyball rate is up.

331
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 3: Like if you looked at his numbers previously, if you

332
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,280
Speaker 3: peruse Baseball Reference or fangraphs, you'll see that Sandy percent

333
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 3: tends to allow tends to have a flyball rate that

334
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 3: hovers between about eighteen and twenty one percent. This year

335
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 3: is up to twenty seven point eight. Now, he's only

336
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 3: given up a bell four home runs, so it hasn't

337
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 3: bit him that much. But again, you can't expect something

338
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 3: like that to sustain itself forever, where you know, a

339
00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 3: quarter of the fly balls he's hitting aren't going to

340
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 3: be home run. I mean, he's still gonna give up.

341
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 3: He's gonna probably run into a fair share of more

342
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 3: home runs here and there if stuffs a level out.

343
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 3: But I don't know, it's just it's definitely very strange

344
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 3: to like see the kind of season he's having, because

345
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 3: like he was so great last year, and again we've

346
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 3: seen guys win Cyang Awards and then they regressed the

347
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 3: following season. I mean, the list guys would be just

348
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 3: like word salad, so I won't even do it. But

349
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 3: he definitely looks different. I don't know why, but he's

350
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 3: still going deep into games. We obviously saw him for

351
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 3: the complete game earlier in this year, it was against Minnesota,

352
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 3: and then he just kind of has been incredibly inconsistent since.

353
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 3: And even yesterday he started off well and then in

354
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 3: the sixth inning, you know, he kind of fell apart

355
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 3: biceps tenonitis. Is that a reason? I don't know. Isaacazouit,

356
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 3: who covered in Atlanta yesterday, said that Sandy maybe had

357
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 3: that long sit down with the Marlins, scored a couple

358
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 3: of runs in the top half of the sixth and

359
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 3: then maybe that affected him somewhat in sand and he

360
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 3: was self effacing enough to say that maybe there's some

361
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 3: merit to that, But I don't know. It's again, he's

362
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 3: just kind of looks a little bit different so far

363
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 3: this year. But again, I have confidence in him. He's

364
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 3: so She's such a smart guy. I think it'll it'll

365
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 3: work itself out in some way. But I think we

366
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 3: can already say that, like twenty twenty two probably won't

367
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:20,160
Speaker 3: happen this year.

368
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,240
Speaker 4: Well, one thing is going back to several of the

369
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 4: points that you mentioned about what looks different, And I

370
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 4: want to give credit to Marlin's Fishbag. This is a

371
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 4: Japanese account that does great Marlin's analysis. Maybe we'll have

372
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 4: him on a podcast in the future because I think

373
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 4: he speaks English, and so he put out a very

374
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 4: long thread a few days ago about Sandy, I think,

375
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 4: right before his most recent start about him and what

376
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 4: seemed a little bit off, and one thing that was

377
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 4: highlighted was the fact that his pitches are getting less

378
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,239
Speaker 4: vertical break than last year. His sinker, his change up,

379
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 4: his slider, his for seamer. Actually that's not the case,

380
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 4: but in terms of the pitches that you want to

381
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,640
Speaker 4: get that late vertical break, those other three pitches, it's

382
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 4: about one to two and a half inches in each

383
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,879
Speaker 4: of those cases compared to last year, that they're not

384
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 4: dropping as much. And that may sound very little, but

385
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 4: I think baseball fans are well aware that the baseball

386
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 4: itself is only about four and a half inches, So

387
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,359
Speaker 4: one to two is a very big difference in terms

388
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 4: of the difference between squaring up a ball or like

389
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 4: whipping on it all together. It's just a matter of

390
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 4: a couple inches. So those pitches aren't dropping as much

391
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,360
Speaker 4: as they were did last year, or even as they did.

392
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 5: In twenty twenty one.

393
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 4: Like this is something that over the last several years

394
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 4: hasn't been an issue for him, and I think that

395
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 4: leads you if you throw the exact same pitch so

396
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 4: that you're used to in the same location, but you

397
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 4: expect a certain result. Last year, those things that may

398
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,720
Speaker 4: have turned into ground balls last year are now turning

399
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 4: into occasional barrels against Sandy because he's not getting.

400
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 5: The vertical drop.

401
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 4: Why he wouldn't be getting it, It's really hard to understand.

402
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 4: Considering everything that is the same compared to last year

403
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,439
Speaker 4: for him. That is something that stood out, and I

404
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 4: do wonder exactly how much would get changed if he

405
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 4: continues to do so. Another way that manifests itself is

406
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 4: simply if you look at you mentioned all the fly

407
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: balls against him, his average launch angle against is about

408
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 4: nine degrees. It is by far the highest it's been

409
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 4: since twenty nineteen. That it all wraps together, whereas pitches

410
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 4: aren't dropping as much at the last minute, so hitters

411
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 4: are having an easier time elevating it, even though overall

412
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 4: Sandy is missing more bats than ever, like his swinging

413
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 4: strike rate is out is up from last year or

414
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 4: any of his.

415
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 5: Previous years as a starter.

416
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 4: It's just that all the other balls they're not because

417
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 4: they're not moving quite the same way that I think

418
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 4: he wants them to move. You're getting this very uncharacteristic

419
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 4: sample of balls that are in the air and balls

420
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 4: that are going out of the ballpark that was such

421
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 4: a big strength of his last year as keeping balls

422
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 4: in the ballpark, and now we already have in several

423
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 4: cas is seeing examples where it's not going his way.

424
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of this does tie back

425
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 4: to the movement on his pitchages. Once again, Marlin's fish

426
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 4: Bag m fish Bag on Twitter if you want to follow.

427
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 4: He was the one that brought that to my attention

428
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 4: a few days ago. And going also to what Lewis

429
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 4: referenced earlier about third time through the order, that is

430
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,919
Speaker 4: perhaps the one trait from last year that stuck with

431
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 4: people most of all, is that Sandy worked so deep

432
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 4: into games. When he was working deep into those games,

433
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 4: he was as good as ever. Right like, Statistically, he

434
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 4: was identical in terms of performance the third time through

435
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 4: the order or even the fourth time through the order

436
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 4: as he was at the start of the game. He

437
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 4: was able to make it through the start of the

438
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 4: game looking sharp, He was able to sustain that, and

439
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 4: he was able to finish games himself at on a

440
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 4: clip that absolutely nobody else does in Major League Baseball today.

441
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 4: This year, in this small sample, it's been such a

442
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 4: completely different story. After allowing last year a six thirty

443
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 4: eight ops the third time through the order being very good.

444
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 4: This year that ops has doubled. He's allowing a twelve seventy.

445
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 5: Six OPS against.

446
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 4: He is turning hitters against him into prime Barry bonds.

447
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 4: That's how much they are destroying him once he gets

448
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 4: once they see him a couple times later into the game,

449
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 4: and we wonder why that could be with everything else here,

450
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 4: I think we'll just need to see it play out

451
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,479
Speaker 4: a little bit more. That twins complete game so far

452
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 4: as been the nominaly where in that game he was

453
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 4: if he was pitching as well as ever towards the

454
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 4: end of it and is able to have complete it himself.

455
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 4: But so far, those are kind of my big takeaways.

456
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 4: Is that his pitches aren't dropping the same way they could,

457
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 4: and that's leading to more flat balls. And also that

458
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 4: even when he's looking sharp in a couple of these cases,

459
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 4: all of a sudden the third time through the order

460
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 4: not as sharp anymore. I think the one side of

461
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 4: relief is that his velocity is what we're used to

462
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 4: seeing consistently high nineties with his fastball. He's getting that

463
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 4: differential off of it with its change up, and he

464
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 4: looks completely healthy. I think the biceps time to nightas

465
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 4: who was downplayed, is a very tiny issue, and from

466
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 4: what we can tell that seems to be good. So,

467
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 4: as I have for the last few years, I'm going

468
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 4: to put a lot of faith in Sandy to troubleshoot

469
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 4: whatever issues he's having and get this straightened out.

470
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 3: What do you think about, like just the pitching as

471
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 3: a whole. I mean, like, I think we're gonna get

472
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: like an aerial kind of observation about twenty six games

473
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: in where are you with the pitching? I've noted the

474
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: run differential several times on Twitter. Believe it's like minus

475
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 3: thirty seven now.

476
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: Like.

477
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 4: It's almost like they're trying to like get the run

478
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 4: differential as bad as possible.

479
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 3: They're not Oakland, but they they are a third of

480
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: the way there. And yeah, but from an aerial view,

481
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 3: about twenty six games in, maybe a tenth or so

482
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 3: of the season, where are you with regards to how

483
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 3: they've done. I mean we talked about it with Corbrera too.

484
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: Can't throw strikes. I believe there was one point where

485
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 3: I saw he had like the second lowest strike percentage

486
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: of pitchers through their first four starts in the season.

487
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, there's a myriad of things that

488
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: you could kind of outline that haven't gone over, but

489
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,479
Speaker 3: give me your give me a couple of takes from

490
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 3: where you're in.

491
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 4: H Well, the one like unmitigated positive has been Braxton Garrett,

492
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 4: who was not even in the rotation to begin with

493
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 4: and has been yeah, pretty even today. Unfortunately as a

494
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 4: recording on Thursday that was the rain shortened doubting. I

495
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 4: would have loved to say what he looked like the

496
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 4: second and third time through. He's been a godsend the

497
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 4: fact that he's been able to fill in the way

498
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: that he has and make sure that for all the

499
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: questions about Hoeing, I think at least if Garrett is

500
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 4: your number four starter, whatever you want to put it,

501
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 4: he's a pretty terrific in that particular role. But I mean,

502
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 4: we could just transition to the bullpen itself considering that

503
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 4: was something that has been a bright spot to this

504
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 4: point in terms of their results.

505
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 5: They're the reason.

506
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 4: Why when the Marlins have had a lead late into games,

507
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: that lead has with just one exception, with Wednesday night

508
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 4: being the only exception, they have been nails. They have

509
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 4: been preserving those leads in that situation. And the thing

510
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 4: is that the underlying stats of that bullpen, even those

511
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 4: are relatively concerning. What I did is I put together

512
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 4: everybody that's pitched in relief for the Marlins this year,

513
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 4: and almost every single one of them. We talk a

514
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 4: lot about the disparity between e RA and fielder independent pitching,

515
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 4: in almost every single reliever that the Marlins have used

516
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 4: this year have a lower ERA than FIT, and that

517
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 4: suggests that even though they're getting the job done for now,

518
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 4: you can see the regression coming in almost every single

519
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 4: case with these guys. I had more extended thoughts about

520
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: the bullpen up on the official show. You know, wherever

521
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 4: you're listening to this, you can find that episode where

522
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 4: I essentially went through all the core relievers and ranked

523
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 4: them one way or the other. So ranking Dylan Flora

524
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 4: is the number one reliever in this bullpen didn't age

525
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 4: all that well when he had that meltdown on Wednesday.

526
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 4: As a whole. What troubles me is the lack of

527
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 4: strikeouts with this entire group. I mean, how many of

528
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 4: these relievers do you really trust to miss bats moving forward?

529
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 4: And there's really very few of them that you think

530
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 4: are going to be great in that particular area long term.

531
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 4: We saw Tanner Scott last year that was the only

532
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 4: thing he did well, and I think over a larger

533
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 4: sample we expect Tanner Scott to be that type of guy,

534
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 4: but he has other issues with controlling the ball that

535
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 4: kind of mitigate anything that he does in that aspect.

536
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 4: And with AJ Puck, he has been like now, if

537
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: you include this most recent series, AJ Puck has been

538
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 4: the top dog in this bullpen thus far. And yet

539
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 4: if you really dive into it, I think the concept

540
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 4: of AJ Puck is sexier than the actual AJ Puck

541
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 4: because to this point he's not getting a ton of

542
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 4: whiffs either. He's still leading a lot of these players

543
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 4: to the mercy of the Marlins defense. With this bullpen overall,

544
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 4: I looked at their batting average on balls and play

545
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 4: as an entire group. It's two forty five. It is

546
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 4: way better, way lower than the league average at this

547
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 4: point in the season, the fourth lowest in all baseball

548
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 4: batting average on balls and play. And that's the spite

549
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 4: playing in front of a defense that we know is

550
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 4: a little bit how should I say, unconventional, very unconventional

551
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 4: defense that we think over a larger sample is going

552
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 4: to be average or probably below average, So you know

553
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 4: that number is going to come up and there's going

554
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 4: to be more hits allowed. Again, referring back to Wednesday's meltdown,

555
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 4: that was kind of the exactly what your worst nightmares

556
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 4: are is that you have somebody like Floro who does

557
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 4: the job of getting his weak contact, and yet that

558
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 4: weak contact.

559
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: Can still get you into trouble.

560
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 4: What you love out of relievers is the ability to

561
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 4: control everything themselves, to not leave things up to chance

562
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: or up to their defense. And even though the defense

563
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: for the most part has been okay to this point

564
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: in the season, you can kind of see a cliff

565
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 4: coming there just because of the players they have out

566
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 4: of position or the ones that don't necessarily have all

567
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: the skills that you look for at those particular spots.

568
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: I don't see a path for this pitching staff to

569
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: become great overall unless you have more of these guys

570
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 4: that are missing bats and getting strikeouts, and so that

571
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: that seems to be with everybody that that's what you

572
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 4: worry about, is that they yet they don't have enough

573
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 4: real dominant guys in here to sustain to to improve well,

574
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 4: to improve on what they're doing, and that that run

575
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 4: differential as things goes on, Like this is a team

576
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: that I think that run differential is a better indicator

577
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 4: of who they are right now than the record is.

578
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 4: That's that's the worry is that they're not going to

579
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 4: win all these one to one games moving forward unless

580
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: they unless they're striking out more batters.

581
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 5: I think it's going to be as simple as that, lewis,

582
00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 5: if you won't.

583
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And then if you look at the overall

584
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: body of work, I mean, the era is, you know,

585
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 3: four point thirty seven, Phipps is near four to seven.

586
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 3: You know, as you noted and as we kind of said,

587
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 3: they're they're lucky. Like Okret's back, which is nice. Maybe

588
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 3: he'll you know, fortify a roll the way he has

589
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 3: the last couple of years. But then again, the same

590
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: way you have concerns with Tanner Scott about command, you

591
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: have it with Steven Okert because while he misses bats

592
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: and he's another extreme, he also has a tendency to

593
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 3: let the strike shone kind of get away from him.

594
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: And that's even with the guy who doesn't throw all

595
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 3: that hard. It's surprising I would say, Sean Nolan maybe

596
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 3: hurt us a little bit in that regard the other

597
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: day when he came up and you know it was

598
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: quickly dfa'd after what was a less than stellar Marlin's debut.

599
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: That being said, yeah, like Devin smelters in this bullpen,

600
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: like it's just kind of like you know, hangar ons,

601
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: you have guys trying to re establish himselves the way

602
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: that kind of Matt Barnes is, and he looked great

603
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: for the most part, despite some really ugly stat cast

604
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: metrics that hitted him as being incredibly lucky. He was

605
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: probably the poster child for that early in the season

606
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: with how he was inducing a lot of weak contact,

607
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 3: but he was also just not missing enough bats, and

608
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: then today he couldn't get out of the fifth inning.

609
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, a myriad of things that have

610
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: kind of just went wrong. And listen, like relievers like

611
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: their years can be made on one or two bad

612
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: blow ups and then you have thirty five, forty fifty

613
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: games where you look good. So that's understood. But yeah,

614
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: like I feel like this bullpen is just a lot

615
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: of guys still not sure of who they are in

616
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: the majors, and you could go down that list, but

617
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: I think it's just a waste of time to even

618
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: do that. I mean, I think the safest guy in

619
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: there is maybe Chagua, and he's hurt and that's merely

620
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 3: unforeigning sample size this year before he suffered an injury,

621
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: So you know, what are you gonna do? I like

622
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: people like it was nice for the week when everybody

623
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: was kind of saying, oh wow, like this bullpen is great,

624
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: like they're very fun, and the whole time I'm reading

625
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 3: bangrounds and I'm like they're lucky, like they're incredibly so

626
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, I like, it's definitely one of those

627
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: things that will leave me to think, like, yeah, like

628
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: this is not another year where they're just going to

629
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: be watching closers some big stuff from the couch, and

630
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 3: you know, the bullpen is maybe one of the reasons why,

631
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: beyond not being able to hit, run, scoring position and

632
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: starting pitchers not faaringwell for their time through. But it's

633
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: a long season.

634
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Right, Is there anyone in particular in that bullpen that's

635
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: gotten really lucky? Obviously with the larger sample size, i'd

636
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: kind of be taking out guys like Oka, Castano, Nolan

637
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: and guys who pitched like one or two games.

638
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking about your guys. George Soriano, and

639
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: that's pretty lucky debut against the Diamondbacks. You know, he

640
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: had a one, two three, but all those bad at

641
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: balls were ninety five plus, I believe, and then you

642
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: know he pit. He looked good in that that game overall,

643
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: but then he got hit the other day and you're like, okay,

644
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: like maybe that's an example of you know, luck kind

645
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 3: of rearing its ugly head and kind of things normalizing

646
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 3: or you know, meeting in the middle kind of thing.

647
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: And now he got sent down. But yeah, I mean

648
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: has an example. You could say Barnes got lucky. I mean,

649
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: if you look at Putt's ear ray who expected fit.

650
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: He's another guy like because he like as he noted,

651
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: he doesn't miss bats. Smelter throws eighty eight to ninety

652
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 3: so any piece of hard contact that doesn't get caught

653
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: from him. I mean, to be fair, he started and

654
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: the pins the other game looked pretty good before innings

655
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: in Cleveland. Even then the Tanner Scott maybe is just

656
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: a guy who stranded a lot of runners early and

657
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: then kind of just regressed the other day and gave

658
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: up a couple of home runs and you know, same

659
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: old panner.

660
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, So I think now, I guess we could

661
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: go to the stat head segment and I'll let Eli

662
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 1: on I tak over this one because he brought up

663
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: what we what we should do for this one.

664
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 4: I think this is only the second time that we've

665
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: done it. It was one we were talking about Luisa

666
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: Rise and how he had as many he was a

667
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 4: hate machine obviously through his first couple of weeks with

668
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: the Marlins at the level that was rarely seen in

669
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 4: the franchise's history. Because we've talked a lot of pitching

670
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 4: on here, I wanted to finish off with the hitting side.

671
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 4: And what troubles to me about the hitting side is

672
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 4: that there's the star power. It's a lot of big

673
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 4: shots in big holes in this line up. There are

674
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 4: a couple positions where they just do not have anything

675
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: that they're being given from these guys. The biggest holes

676
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 4: in issues with this team right now.

677
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 5: Are catcher in third base.

678
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 4: On catcher, I know there was a lot of optimism

679
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 4: mentoring this year about Nick Fortes emerging as the main

680
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 4: catcher and his resemblances to a former Marlin like JT. Realmuto,

681
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 4: the guy that could do it all and really take

682
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 4: off here and would have been his first full season

683
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 4: as a major leaguer. And on the third base side,

684
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: as we know, the Marlins went out and they signed

685
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 4: Gen Segura, who was typically a middle infielder in the past,

686
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 4: but they felt that he is such a safe guy,

687
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: right He is a singles machine himself. Every single year

688
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 4: he got big hits against the Marlins through the years.

689
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: He still has a lot left in the tank at

690
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: age thirty three, and that he'd be there everyday third

691
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: basement this year. And so what I pulled up here

692
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: is just looking at the splits across the Majors, all

693
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: thirty teams at their weakest positions in terms of ops

694
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 4: that they're getting from those defensive positions. So there are

695
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: some pretty ugly ones that you guys probably weren't aware of, though.

696
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 4: The White Sox at second base getting a three forty

697
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 4: five ops from those guys, the Seattle Mariners they're designated hitters,

698
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 4: the Mets catchers, the Mariners second basement. There's a bunch

699
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 4: of Oakland A's on here, as you would expect for

700
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 4: people that know how Oakland is pretty egregiously tanking, But

701
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 4: one of the very lowest ops is from any position

702
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: on any team in baseball is Marlins catchers. So this

703
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 4: entering Thursday, he was just a four to thirty eight

704
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: a slash line of one forty eight two sixteen two

705
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: twenty two Nick Fortes. Remember he hit that home run

706
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 4: during the first series of the season, and they have

707
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 4: not had a single home run from their catchers ever since.

708
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 4: They're striking out at a super high rate, and overall

709
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 4: ops four thirty eight from their catchers the sixth worst

710
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 4: out of any individual position in all baseball to this

711
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 4: point this season. You go to third base, you don't

712
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 4: have to go down far to find third base, which

713
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 4: is mostly Jeans Segura, a little dash of John Birdie,

714
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 4: a four to seven to five ops from Marlin's third

715
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: baseman this season, and that one, even more so, is

716
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 4: held back from a total lack of isolated power whatsoever.

717
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: No home runs from the third base and nothing really

718
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 4: even close to that. It's funny that maybe things are

719
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 4: finally starting to turn around from Segura. He was the

720
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 4: one that broke up the Spencer Strider no hitter on Monday,

721
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 4: and then here on Thursday, he had a double during

722
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: that ninth inning rally that ultimately without Jean Sigura, maybe

723
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: they lose that game, and he had a very rare

724
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 4: extra base hit for himself. Overall, that has been just

725
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 4: a massive disappointment from somebody that they thought is such

726
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: a reliable player, who's been there, who's done that, who

727
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 4: should be relatively slump proof, and what do you know,

728
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 4: As is the case with a lot of new free

729
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 4: agent signings, at the very beginning of their time with

730
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 4: a new team, they get into a pretty bad slump.

731
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 4: To this point, the Marlins offense, it's one of the

732
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 4: worst in baseball so far this season, and to me,

733
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 4: of the thing they need to address is getting more

734
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 4: offense from positions like catcher in third base. For the

735
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 4: near term future, I don't think you see any roster changes,

736
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 4: like Stallings and Fortes are still going to be your

737
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 4: guys behind the plate. It Sigur is still going to

738
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 4: be the main third baseman, especially when Joey Wendall gets

739
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 4: back and that shifts things around where John Birdie becomes

740
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 4: a utility guy. So I think it's going to be

741
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: the same players and these players the three that I specified,

742
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 4: they simply need to hit better, and if they do,

743
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 4: I think that makes a pretty massive difference on the team,

744
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: because for now the bottom part of the Marlins order

745
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 4: is absolutely killing them on offense.

746
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

747
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask both of you, I mean, four tests,

748
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: two minor league options, maybe time to give him a

749
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: trip to Triple A see if he could get his

750
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: back going, because at this point you're not going to

751
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: send out Stallings, especially with Sandy. And then I guess

752
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: this is more of an ELI. We're into question anyone

753
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: who stands out to in the minor leagues at the

754
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: catch position that they should bring up. Really nobody in

755
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: Triple A right now that really stands out. I think

756
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: we're mainly looking at Double A with either Bandfield or

757
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: McIntosh who could go up and you know that they'll

758
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: find some type of success offensively, and I.

759
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: Think they're able to be McIntosh here in this case when.

760
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 4: We Yeah, so he answered the second part. I'm preparing

761
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,479
Speaker 4: a potential article about Austin Allen, who is the main

762
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: catcher at Triple A right now, who has not had

763
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 4: a hit in about a month. He is oh for

764
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 4: forty something at the place, so unfortunately, yeah, blowing his

765
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 4: potential opportunity to stink in sneaking as like a fill

766
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: in for Fortes. So I think the long story short

767
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 4: with the catchers is that I think Fortes has a

768
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 4: lot of job security as bad as he is performing.

769
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 4: I don't see Paul McIntosh suddenly skipping a level, even

770
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 4: for some of the questions about whether he is a

771
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 4: catcher at the highest level. And the fact that at

772
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 4: Triple A between Austin Allen Santiago Chavez, you're not going

773
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 4: to get much more offense. You might actually somehow get

774
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 4: worse offense from them. It plays a Ford says, I

775
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 4: think he has a pretty long leash. So I do

776
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 4: expect it to be the same faces here, and it's

777
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 4: more so a question of how it is that they

778
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 4: get better results out of them. So they're going home

779
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 4: right now. It's a lone deeboat park for a week

780
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 4: long home stands. This is not a bullpark. That is,

781
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: it's not an easy place for hitters to get back

782
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 4: on track, if anything. But I do think it's going

783
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 4: to be the same faces at these positions for the

784
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 4: near term future, and they simply need to perform that

785
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 4: closer to what their track record suggests.

786
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think you know, we talked

787
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 3: earlier about Hoeing and how he's kind of there by

788
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 3: necessity because there's guys that just aren't ready, and that's

789
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: kind of what precipitates him being in the big leagues.

790
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 3: The Marlins, like I said, wouldn't call up Yard Perez prematurely,

791
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: so they have Brian Howing who's got some big league experience,

792
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: so you may as well just put him in there

793
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 3: while he's fresh, et cetera, et cetera, especially building off

794
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: strong sword triple a. That's the kind of like the

795
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: same thing with the catchers like Austin Allen with that

796
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 3: prolonged slump McIntosh who allowed almost I believe it was

797
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 3: ninety seven stolen bases last year in the minor leagues

798
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 3: in less than eighty games played. Like he you know,

799
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: had he can hit, and that would probably be you know, welcome,

800
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: But does he play third base? And he's no, he's

801
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: not a good catcher either, by what a lot of

802
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 3: the people say. The arm isn't great, so I mean, like,

803
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: what are you going to do with him? There? Fortesant Stallings,

804
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: you know, Stallings is almost there now is like a

805
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 3: David Ross like guy because he catches sandy and you know,

806
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: veterans tend to like you know, the way he calls

807
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: pitches or whatever. But even then, like he all he

808
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: does is hit weak ground balls most of the time.

809
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 3: And I believe his ground bowl rate is like north

810
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 3: of fifty five percent right now. Like it's bad. He

811
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: like he's almost like at Jeff mathis minus the ability

812
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: to strike out. He's an automatic out. I mean he

813
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 3: you know, who's the same. Pickers don't hit anymore. When

814
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: Jake Obsallings gets three or four if that's three four

815
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: times a week, that's pretty much what it's like. I

816
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: I mean, he doesn't have he hasn't Homer this year. Yeah,

817
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: Like defensively, it's kind of just the same thing. And

818
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 3: like it's like what happened in twenty twenty one, that

819
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two is so bad, and now you're just

820
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 3: more twenty twenty two, and it's like, you know, where

821
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 3: are we gonna go? They're catching depth is horrendous, and like,

822
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 3: you know, as we get closer to June and the

823
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 3: draft rolls around, you start to think. And if you're

824
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 3: a mom fan, you hope, Like, hey, like, maybe we

825
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 3: should prioritize drafting a premium catcher in that first round

826
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: because we don't have one in the minor leagues that

827
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: looks to be a franchise cornerstone or even a viable

828
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: big leaguer in the next few years. So I think

829
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: that's something we ought to focus on. Maybe just a thought,

830
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: but any position player offensive help would be welcome given

831
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: the way that they've is kind of ever since Stanton

832
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: and Nozuna and co. Left, they've just struggled to score

833
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: runs at like a ridiculously bad rate.

834
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: Is there any current catcher in the big leagues that

835
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: kind of stands out to Lewis to make a good

836
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: fit on the Marlins? Obviously that's realistic to acquire via

837
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: trader or even free agent. If there's a free agent

838
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: catcher that may stand out right now that makes.

839
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 3: Sense, his name me right now. But the catcher for

840
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: the Tigers, for ELI probably knows now Vonharts with the

841
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: Cubs now this, yeah, is that his name? Yes, he

842
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 3: is a pretty good offensive catcher, at least for the

843
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: expectations that you kind of have for the position. That's

844
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: maybe a guy and the Tigers rebuild is you know,

845
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: they're still playing Jonathan Scope, who is far and away

846
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 3: the worst hitter in baseball if you go back the

847
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: last two three years. Maybe if they want to, you know,

848
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: have discussions about trading him, maybe, But the Tigers also

849
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: have a decent amount of pitching that's kind of like

850
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 3: building up in the minor leagues, and some of those

851
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: guys like Fato and Manning and co. Have kind of graduated.

852
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: Casey meis going back from Tommy Johnn, so I don't

853
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: know if they'd want to trade from take from Miami's

854
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 3: pitching depth, but again, you can never have too much pitching.

855
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: And Haas is a decent offensive catcher. That's maybe a

856
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: guy I love Tyler Stevenson, but the Reds are getting

857
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 3: better as we see, and he's a I think very

858
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: close to, if not already a premium offensive talent regardless

859
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: of position where you would be like, I'd love to

860
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 3: have that guy on my roster. And I don't think

861
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 3: the Reds are gonna for or even like entertain the

862
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 3: idea of trading him. But you know, there's a couple

863
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: of guys catching is just it's ever evolving because you know,

864
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: with all the expectations that you have behind the play.

865
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: With game calling and framing being a big thing nowadays,

866
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: offense kind of takes a back seat for the Mars.

867
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: I think it's taken more than a back seats, and

868
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: it's beyond hell, it's beyond purgatory. It's a dimensional we

869
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: haven't discovered yet.

870
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 4: I do want to remind people that there was a

871
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 4: rumor and a pretty substantiate rumor over the off season

872
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: that the Marlins were in on Sean Murphy when Seawn

873
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 4: Murphy was on the market from alton A's, that they

874
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 4: were serious about trying to get him, that they foresaw

875
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 4: potentially that this was going to be a weakness for them,

876
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: But they didn't pull the trigger, and it doesn't seem

877
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 4: that they really got any close to acquiring another starting

878
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 4: caliber catcher this past offseason. I doubt that the Marlins

879
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 4: front office is all that shocked that this tandem has

880
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 4: gone off.

881
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 5: To a very slow start.

882
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 4: So a lot of it is going to come down

883
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 4: to fortest at Stallings at this stage of his career.

884
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 4: Just looking at the measurables in his case, we should

885
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 4: point out that the early part of the season he

886
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 4: has been crushing the ball just not quite enough to

887
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 4: get over the wall. But there was a portion of

888
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 4: time where he was leading this team in barrel rates.

889
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 4: It's just't yeah, this unique type, like just that this

890
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 4: is an exercise. Where as much we appreciate these stats,

891
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 4: like sometimes there are some arbitrary lines here right with

892
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 4: how hard you need to hit to get a barrel,

893
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 4: But he's not hitting it quite hard enough to really

894
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: do damage. This is something that over a larger sample,

895
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 4: I don't think he is that type of guy. I

896
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 4: do want to shout out that, like he should be

897
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 4: a little bit better than the results that he's getting,

898
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 4: and before says I think that's definitely true in fort

899
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 4: is this case that there's enough ability here as a

900
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 4: hitter to get better results moving forward. I just want

901
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 4: to point out the end that this those positions have

902
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: really been dragging the team down moving forward, but I

903
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 4: think you could be relatively optimistic on both fronts. That's

904
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 4: going to get a little bit better moving forward.

905
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 3: We talk about comfort a lot. I mean, like guys

906
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 3: like playing in certain cities, certain positions. Amakutchick goes back

907
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 3: to Pittsburgh after being an average to slightly above average

908
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 3: offensive player last couple of years and he's hitting again

909
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: right like he looks like he is drinking from Pon

910
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 3: Salon's fountain youth. And when Joy Wendall comes back though,

911
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: like lead's men to believe. Like Sagura is a good

912
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: defensive shortstop, he became an even better defensive second baseman

913
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: in the time that he played there. Wendell, defensive metric wise,

914
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: if you used fielding Bible on every other side that

915
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 3: tracks defensive run saved is an almost elite defensive third

916
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 3: baseman if he's there, Like, do you encourage the idea

917
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 3: of maybe like moving the two like Sigura back to

918
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 3: more of a natural position and maybe that awakens something

919
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: in his back because there's that added comfort level that

920
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 3: maybe can't be measured beyond splits and how they hit

921
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 3: when they play a particular position. I don't know.

922
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the type of line of thinking that I

923
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 4: usually I can apply more often to younger players. With Segura,

924
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 4: he's been around so long and he's been deductive for

925
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 4: such an extended period of time that I think he's

926
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 4: able to distinguish between that he's able to what's word

927
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 4: I'm looking for, be able to separate those compartmentalized the

928
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 4: defense from the offense.

929
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 3: I hope so, and he looks good there at times.

930
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: There are times he plays their lease and you're like wow,

931
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: Like inspect training particularly, I was very impressed, and I

932
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 3: was the concerns I had were predicated on the fact

933
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: that his throwing arm was in the lower end, especially

934
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 3: for third basement a guy that's the longest thrower you

935
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 3: have to make as an infielder. That's concerning. He's looked

936
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: okay there, But I don't know, Like maybe there's just

937
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: part of me that thinks, like what would happen if

938
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: you put him at short stuff for a week, Like

939
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: would your defense marginally get better? Like is it something

940
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 3: to at least try right now when your pitching staff

941
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: is definitely succumbing to the bad defense, or at least

942
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 3: the defense that isn't even as bad as we originally

943
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: forecasted it to be. Like, I don't know, again, it's

944
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: a thought experiment, Like you guys have Birdie. You guys

945
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 3: have Birdie that can play it. But Grossan's isn't hitting

946
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 3: in the minors. LeBlanc is minus walking as much as

947
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 3: he is, He's not hitting all that much either. Maybe

948
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 3: it's something to think about. Whether it happens, I don't know.

949
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 3: I think Skip may be just committed to kind of

950
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 3: running out the infield that he is and hoping the

951
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: Marlins run into a twenty twenty two phllly scenario where

952
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 3: their team of dhs or in this case, team of

953
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 3: second basement kind of makes its way to the playoffs.

954
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 3: We'll see, But I don't know, like it just I

955
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 3: just I just think, like park factors in mind, the

956
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 3: fact that Miami is just such a Petro friendly ballpark,

957
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: and parks Factor says it's like a seventy eight out

958
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 3: of one hundred this year, like it's really bad. Maybe

959
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 3: that goes up a little bit if those guys are

960
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 3: playing positions that they feel to be a little bit

961
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 3: more natural to them. But it's just a thought.

962
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: And the one other player didn't mention, which you know

963
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: it's probably the most success of them, is Xavier Edwards,

964
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: but he's playing center field most of the time, so

965
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, you kind of start to figure, like, maybe

966
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: maybe just take the risk and put him back a

967
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: short stop full time if he's hitting that well. He's

968
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: having a good season in the minor leagues, and unfortunately

969
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 1: Jacob and Maya, who we thought maybe the back could

970
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: get it going a little bit in Triple A doing

971
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: time they get his major league call up, he looked

972
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: real bad. Just just another way to see he's found more

973
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: successful of late. I know he I think had an

974
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: RBI today, But that's really about it. Like Xavier Edwards

975
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: has been the best of ELI before. If if you're

976
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: on an attitude any of what Lewis sattle maybe anything else,

977
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: I think.

978
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 4: We can like just solve it right to stop it

979
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 4: right there. That's kind of yeah, where we're at with

980
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 4: this particular team where shortstop is still a huge question

981
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 4: mark for them. It was a question mark entering the year,

982
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 4: and as we're speaking, like for the last week, Garrett

983
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 4: Hampsen has been the Marlins starting shortstop. Yeah, even though

984
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 4: there have been some good moments and Kevin you put

985
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 4: together a great article on Hampson and now he's fitting

986
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 4: into the team, the fit is not as a starting

987
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: shortstop for a period of time. That is a huge

988
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 4: question for them moving forward. It's us in this first month,

989
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 4: it has already been this big carousel between Wendell and

990
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 4: then Birdie and then Hampsen. And as you touched on.

991
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 4: They have several candidates waiting at Triple A, but not

992
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 4: even a single one that you feel super intrigued about,

993
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 4: like long term. The one name that we're that has

994
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: been a great story has been Hiddi Cape at Hi A.

995
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 4: He has been off to an awesome start. He in

996
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 4: our fit Strip's top thirty that's going to come out

997
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 4: pretty soon. He is our number one position player in

998
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 4: the Marlins farm system, deservedly, so that's a very enticing option,

999
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 4: perhaps as soon as next year, but not for this year.

1000
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 4: Certainly a weird team. This is a weird team that,

1001
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 4: as Lewis sums up, just so many second basemen here

1002
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 4: and a lot of them playing weird positions that there's

1003
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 4: really no way to put the pieces together in a

1004
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: way that you're totally satisfied with. A lot of work

1005
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 4: has to be done if they're going to try to

1006
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 4: sustain a five hundred team this year, I think you're

1007
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 4: going to see some in season moves to get that done,

1008
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 4: and certainly if they want to be a postseason contended

1009
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: team in the future, there's still some pretty big building

1010
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 4: blocks away from getting that into being a real possibility

1011
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 4: for them.

1012
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: Lewis anything else you want to add before we wrap up.

1013
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: Hopefully the Risperdome is prescribed in the schizophrenia. That is,

1014
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: the instability of this team maybe stabilizes somewhat because it

1015
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: has been retaining, to say the least, the first twenty

1016
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 3: six or so games.

1017
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: I want to ask, what's the Pythagoram record? Is that

1018
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: what it's called?

1019
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so based predicated on a win loss record. I

1020
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 3: believe as actor today it's nine and seventeen. So you

1021
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 3: want to talk about being lucky at five hundred, they've

1022
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 3: won four more games than they.

1023
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: Should have there it is, So I think that's where

1024
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: we're going to end it. From Eli Lewis to myself.

1025
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: You'll have Daniel back next week hosting Physiology on The

1026
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: Fish on First Podcast Network. Thank you for watching peace

1027
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: Out and Go Fish.