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Speaker 1: Crystal Miller is here. You are a survivor of Columbine,

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Speaker 1: which is just fascinating to me to even think about.

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Speaker 1: I remember when that happened, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of us do, just in this culture. But it is

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Speaker 1: crazy because the more I researched about your story and

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Speaker 1: just that shooting in general, I know for me it

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Speaker 1: was the first big shooting that I have any memory

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Speaker 1: of or anything like that, and then we've had so

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Speaker 1: many sense and the truth about the whole matter is

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Speaker 1: that nothing has actually really changed since then. So I

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Speaker 1: wanted to give listeners just a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: journey of what it looks like whenever a tragedy or

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Speaker 1: trauma like this happens and what happens after that, because

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us keep forgetting, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just the thing of, oh, that big thing happened.

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Speaker 1: We'll post about it on Instagram for a week, and

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Speaker 1: then we go about our lives until the next one happens.

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Speaker 1: And I know that's not the case for people who

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Speaker 1: are affected by these kind of things or who have

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Speaker 1: been there, who were there for it. So first of all, welcome,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being here with us, Thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me it's an honor to be here, and if you would,

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Speaker 1: I know. The basics of the shooting are that it

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Speaker 1: happened on April twentieth of nineteen ninety nine, which was

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Speaker 1: Hitler's birthday, which is very haunting to me. Dylan is

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Speaker 1: at Kleibold. Is that how we say his name? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is. And Eric Harris were two kids that went

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Speaker 1: to school with you at Columbine. They killed thirteen people

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Speaker 1: and wounded more than twenty others. They then committed suicide

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Speaker 1: by shooting themselves in the head of the school library.

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Speaker 1: You were in the library, which is apparently the place

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Speaker 1: where the most people were killed. Is that correct. That's correct, Kelly. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the library was the scene of the most intense violence

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Speaker 1: at Columbine. Ten of the thirteen were killed in the library.

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Speaker 1: Twelve of those twenty plus were wound. It there inside

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Speaker 1: of the library, and I was right there in the

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Speaker 1: very center in the midst of it. Oh my gosh. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: just talk through this day with us. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know it just probably is a story you've told a

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Speaker 1: million times, but I've listened to your story and it

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Speaker 1: really helped me to visualize just the breakdown with just

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Speaker 1: the details of a normal day. So can you talk

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Speaker 1: us through your day that day? Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what's most interesting. Is it just seemed like any other day.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had just had prom I was a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old junior. I mean, the biggest concerns on

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Speaker 1: my mind were fitting in being popular, were the boys

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Speaker 1: that I liked and the sports that I played, and

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Speaker 1: making sure that I got good grade. I mean, very

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old stuff. Yeah, And on that particular day,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's warning signs. There's things that happened now

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Speaker 1: looking back that pointed to what was about to happen,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't recognize those. We simply went on with

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Speaker 1: our day as normal and went through the first four

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Speaker 1: periods of school like any other day. And a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine by the name of Seth was waiting outside

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Speaker 1: of my classroom and we usually left campus to go

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Speaker 1: eat because we could come and go, and I begged

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Speaker 1: him and his sister Sarah actually, who were too good

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Speaker 1: friends of mine, to come to the library with me

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Speaker 1: that day, you know, And of course you just wonder

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Speaker 1: is it my fault that we were there that day?

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Speaker 1: And we went into the library five minutes in the library.

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Speaker 1: We were not in there for very long. Chaos broke

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Speaker 1: out in and around the school. I remember glancing over

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Speaker 1: to the hallway and I saw students running with looks

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Speaker 1: of terror and panic on their faces, but we couldn't

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Speaker 1: see what was happening or hear what was happening. About

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Speaker 1: that time, a teacher came running through the library doors

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Speaker 1: and she said, there's guys with guns and bombs. They're

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Speaker 1: shooting students. Hut under your tables. And we thought it

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Speaker 1: was a joke. We couldn't possibly wrap our minds around

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Speaker 1: what she was actually saying. But as we just down

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Speaker 1: the hall kind of started to hear the unmistakable sound

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Speaker 1: of gunfire, we knew that we better take cover, and

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Speaker 1: it was too late to run somewhere else or find

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Speaker 1: a good place to hide, so we took cover underneath

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Speaker 1: of our tables. They didn't offer a whole lot of protection.

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Speaker 1: And my friend says, said, start praying, God can get

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Speaker 1: us out of here. And I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to prayer, what to say, God save us,

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Speaker 1: Let this all be over. But it was just the beginning,

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Speaker 1: because those two boys entered the library and they started

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Speaker 1: their killing spree. That lasted seven and a half minutes,

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Speaker 1: And that may not sound like a lot of time,

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Speaker 1: but it felt like an eternity. It felt like times

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Speaker 1: stood still. And I the whole time they were in

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Speaker 1: the library, I mean I literally contemplated what it would

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Speaker 1: feel like to get shot, if I would die quickly,

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Speaker 1: if I would suffer slowly. I mean, all I knew

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Speaker 1: of violence was what I had seen in the movies.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't Hollywood. I mean, this was real life.

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Speaker 1: And I really literally saw my life flash before my eyes,

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Speaker 1: like all the past regrets, wishing I had a chance

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Speaker 1: to do them over, and the hopes and dreams from

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Speaker 1: my future slipping through my fingers, and just knowing I

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Speaker 1: would never see those that I loved the most. Ever again,

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Speaker 1: I was convinced that I was sixteen, I was about

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Speaker 1: my life was about to end. And yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: they went around for several minutes, picking out their victims

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Speaker 1: based on the way that they looked, the color of

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Speaker 1: their skin, if they were overweight, and gunning down their

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Speaker 1: victims based on those things. And the whole time just

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Speaker 1: underneath if the table, just praying, just praying that it

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Speaker 1: would be over, that someone would come to help us,

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Speaker 1: and after a few moments, they made their way up

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Speaker 1: the middle section where we were hiding, and they first

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Speaker 1: turned to the table right next to us, just a

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Speaker 1: few feet away, and they shot, and they killed the

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Speaker 1: boy who was underneath the table. They then turned their

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Speaker 1: attention to our table pushed it Sharon underneath, and I

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Speaker 1: felt it hit my back. I knew that they were

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Speaker 1: just inches on my body, and I could hear them talking,

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Speaker 1: kind of dumping out their weapons on the table above

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Speaker 1: to take a mentory, and they realized they needed more AMMO.

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Speaker 1: They said they were going to leave to go reload,

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Speaker 1: and they made it very clear that they were coming

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Speaker 1: back though, to kill those of us who are still alive.

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Speaker 1: And so we knew we had just a small window

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Speaker 1: of opportunity to escape before they returned, and so we

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Speaker 1: got up and we ran towards the exit, and it

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Speaker 1: looked like a war It looked like a war zone

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Speaker 1: in that small library, and I was forced to literally

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Speaker 1: step over the bodies of my friends and classmates so

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Speaker 1: that I could make it out alive. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's hard to imagine at sixteen, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine at any age. It should not happen, but at

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Speaker 1: sixteen that this was my new reality, this was my story,

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Speaker 1: and of course everything from that moment changed. I knew

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Speaker 1: that life as I knew it would never again be

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Speaker 1: the same. So you had that awareness in that moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do. I remember just moments after, I

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Speaker 1: was standing in a field and it felt like everybody

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Speaker 1: was just scattering and I was left standing there alone.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know what I had even seen or

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Speaker 1: experienced inside of that library, but I did know that

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Speaker 1: my life would never again be the same. Now, obviously

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Speaker 1: I didn't know the ins and the outs of that.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't explain that to you, but I just knew

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Speaker 1: that there was a shift in that moment, and of

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Speaker 1: course there was, I mean, right, everything about life changed.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you were talking about being

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Speaker 1: under the table and just it's crazy to me. I

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Speaker 1: always wonder, you know, you hear people talk about like

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Speaker 1: in a near death experience, their life flashing before their eyes.

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Speaker 1: So you were seeing all these things? Were you panicking?

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Speaker 1: Were you like in shock? Like what did your body

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Speaker 1: feel like? Oh? Yeah, I've hit such a I've never

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Speaker 1: felt more fear in my life. I mean, every fiber

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Speaker 1: of my entire being was just it was shaking uncontrollably.

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Speaker 1: I was going into shock, so physically I was like

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Speaker 1: experiencing shock every emotion and then no emotions at all

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Speaker 1: and your numb and your shock. I mean, it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to describe in that actual moment. My friend who

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Speaker 1: I was with underneath of the table, his name was Seth,

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Speaker 1: and he had a lot of wherewithal and understanding of

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Speaker 1: what was happening, much more than myself. And I'm so

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Speaker 1: thankful that I was with him because he really helped

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Speaker 1: kind of guide us. And in fact, at one point

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Speaker 1: I didn't share it in my story, but he grabbed

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Speaker 1: my body and he said, Crystal, I promised that I

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Speaker 1: will take a bullet for you, like he knew what

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Speaker 1: was coming when there was just a lot of chaos

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Speaker 1: and a lot of things I couldn't underst stand that

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Speaker 1: were happening around me. Oh my god. You mentioned that

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Speaker 1: you had seen signs. Did you mean specifically that morning

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Speaker 1: you noticed that things were weird or leading up to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great questionship I would say that day, I

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Speaker 1: mean personally, for me, I had woken up late and

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Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to my dad.

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Speaker 1: And that was kind of a routine we had every

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Speaker 1: morning that particular day on our announcements for the school.

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Speaker 1: They were always done on the TV screens and they

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Speaker 1: were telling us what was for lunch, the sporting activities

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Speaker 1: after school. And the quote that day said you'll wish

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Speaker 1: you weren't here today. And I think that being the

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Speaker 1: biggest sign of because those two boys actually worked behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes on the video production and they had put

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Speaker 1: that there kind of as a morning of what was

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Speaker 1: about to happen. Wow, So that came. That was a

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Speaker 1: message that came from them. Yes, wow, crazy, I mean,

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Speaker 1: And the day was period. It is, it absolutely is,

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Speaker 1: And the day was chosen by those two boys because

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Speaker 1: it was Hitler's birthday. Things were already a bit strange

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Speaker 1: because it was four twenty and so things were a

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Speaker 1: bit off. I mean, there was just a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of kind of strange things about the day.

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Speaker 1: So the other thing that's so interesting, and I went

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Speaker 1: to a really small high school and so I don't

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Speaker 1: know how big Columbine was, but we knew everyone. And

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Speaker 1: so I wonder, like you said, you had friends who

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Speaker 1: you were watching die, which I cannot process the trauma

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Speaker 1: around that and how scary that would be. But then, also,

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Speaker 1: did you know the two shooters? You know, You're exactly right.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have a really big school, about two thousand

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Speaker 1: plus students, so impossible to know everybody. They were seniors.

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Speaker 1: I was a junior. I remember looking back, I remembered

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Speaker 1: passing them in the hall, but I did not know

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Speaker 1: them personally. Okay, And then what was it like in

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Speaker 1: the library as you watched your friends be shot? What like,

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Speaker 1: what is going through your head in that moment? You know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't actually see them shot because my friend Seth

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Speaker 1: kind of had his body sheltering mine. I was kind

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Speaker 1: of buried in his chest. Thankfully, I'm a very sensitive person,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm very thankful I didn't actually see that.

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Speaker 1: But but I don't think, I mean, you really almost

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Speaker 1: to protect yourself. You you have to. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: there's defenses that we that that our bodies just kind

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Speaker 1: of do naturally. And so for me, even as I

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Speaker 1: was stepping over those bodies, I wasn't processing it. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't understanding what was happening in the moment. It took

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Speaker 1: some time to go back and to really process and

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Speaker 1: work through that. So then it went that it ended

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Speaker 1: up the guys committed suicide, and you guys were able

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Speaker 1: to escape the library thankfully. What happened next, You know,

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Speaker 1: when we first came out of the library, it was

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Speaker 1: very disorienting because we went from this dark room that

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Speaker 1: was filled with smoke and the fire alarms were going off,

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Speaker 1: and we step out into the bright sunlight and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out where we can go, where we're safe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everything we just had known for sixteen years

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Speaker 1: of our lives was turned upside down. We didn't know

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Speaker 1: who to trust, where we could go that was safe.

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Speaker 1: I saw a police car just a few yards from

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Speaker 1: the school, and so we ran to get behind the

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Speaker 1: police car. There was no police officer. They were off

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Speaker 1: exchanging gunfire with the boys in the library. But most

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Speaker 1: of the students had been very badly wounded. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of blood. I mean again, it just looked

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Speaker 1: like a war zone in front of me, and people

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Speaker 1: were springing to action and they were helping people who

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Speaker 1: were bleeding. And but I threw hysterical over the side

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Speaker 1: of blood and over the wounds and from the shock

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Speaker 1: of it all, really and so we were waiting for

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Speaker 1: police cars to come take the most wounded away from

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Speaker 1: the scene, and I was separated from Seth and Sarah,

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Speaker 1: my friends, and I was picked up by a police

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Speaker 1: car and dropped off in a field just behind the school.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of when everyone scattered and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know where to go. I didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: My safety, my security had been stolen. Yeah, so what

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Speaker 1: did you do? You just stout? Yeah, I stood in place,

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Speaker 1: and someone with the media came and they were interviewing me.

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Speaker 1: I mean I have clips of me literally moments after

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Speaker 1: coming out of the library, absolutely hysterical, trying to make

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Speaker 1: sense of it. And it wasn't a few minutes later

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Speaker 1: a friend came up Seth again and found us, or

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Speaker 1: found me rather, and we tried to make our way

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Speaker 1: to a phone so we could call our parents, so

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Speaker 1: we could let them know that we were okay. I

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Speaker 1: cannot imagine being a parent and then getting that call.

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Speaker 1: I mean, have you taught to your parents? I'm sure

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Speaker 1: about what was going through their head, Like, were they

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Speaker 1: aware that the shooting was happening? They they were, In fact,

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Speaker 1: someone had called my parents and told them, hey, crystals

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Speaker 1: in the library we know she's in there, And it

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Speaker 1: was at this point that reports were already coming in. Hey,

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Speaker 1: all of the shooting is taking place in the library.

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Speaker 1: My parents really fear the worst. They didn't they didn't

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Speaker 1: think that I would make it out alive. And I

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Speaker 1: remember when I first picked up the phone and I

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Speaker 1: talked to my dad. I mean, it was finally like

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Speaker 1: my dad just all of his emotion, his rush of

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Speaker 1: emotion just came out. I rarely heard my dad cry

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Speaker 1: and listening to him weep when he heard my voice,

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Speaker 1: and I just kept asking him, Dad, where were you?

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Speaker 1: I didn't you tect me? Which is so horrifying. You

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Speaker 1: know that that was my question. I mean all I

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Speaker 1: wanted was my my dad, my parents in that momentum.

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Speaker 1: But now as a parent myself of three young kids,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine either, Kelly. I can't imagine getting that call.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine watching that happen on the news. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's heartbreaking, it's horrifying. Yeah, it makes me sick

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Speaker 1: of the stomach that the media came directly to you,

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Speaker 1: like that piece of it is to me, like a

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Speaker 1: big part of kind of the things that Chip and

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Speaker 1: I talk about about like what's wrong with our culture,

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Speaker 1: but like the fact that they would come directly to

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Speaker 1: a person that's so clearly in shock and in need

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Speaker 1: of help is wild. Yeah, you know, media is definitely,

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Speaker 1: um it's been it's been a problem since the events

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Speaker 1: at Columbine. I mean, I still think we need to

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Speaker 1: hold media a bit more accountable to how they actually,

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Speaker 1: um you report these kinds of things. And I think

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Speaker 1: even from day one, the way that they talked about

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Speaker 1: the two shooters giving them such notoriety, which is what

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of these shooters desire. There's

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things, and we've seen a

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Speaker 1: little bit of you know, we've seen a little bit

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Speaker 1: of progress in that area, but I still think we

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Speaker 1: have a long way to go. I mean, I'm always

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Speaker 1: mortified when I see another shooting happen and they immediately

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Speaker 1: go towards the kids and the young people and the

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean it's hard enough to talk when

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Speaker 1: you're in shock, but especially as a young person who

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the language, who doesn't have the understanding or

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Speaker 1: the or the emotional capability to even even express themselves. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a fine line because obviously the media

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Speaker 1: is also trying to figure out what's happening so they

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Speaker 1: can you know, alert the public to it. But it's

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Speaker 1: it seems a depth what seems exploitative to you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but you know, again, they didn't know your

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Speaker 1: story yet until they spoke to you, so there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of forgiveness there. But I definitely think when

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Speaker 1: it's when it turns to the point where they know

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Speaker 1: who the shooters are and they glorify that in any

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Speaker 1: sort of ways, that's when they're really crossing the line. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean something that I was thinking about, like when

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Speaker 1: you were talking about leaving the library. You know, you

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Speaker 1: in that instance didn't even know the full picture of

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Speaker 1: what was going on, Like you knew what was happening

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Speaker 1: around you, So I can imagine the terror that, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, when when you make that decision to leave

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Speaker 1: the room, like you don't know if there's if it's

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Speaker 1: just these two or if there's more people, or what's

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Speaker 1: going on, and you know, then to have to like

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Speaker 1: be outside of the building, not knowing like who's watching,

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Speaker 1: like who's tag teaming this, it's I mean, I just

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Speaker 1: it's my body's had I've had chills the whole time

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Speaker 1: you've been talking. It's like it's impossible to put myself

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Speaker 1: in your shoes. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's

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Speaker 1: what's so hard when something like this happens, when an

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Speaker 1: event is unfolding, is because there is so much chaos,

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Speaker 1: and there's so so many moving pieces, and there's so

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Speaker 1: many unanswered questions. I think that's what makes it difficult

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Speaker 1: for law enforcement, and it's what makes it difficult for

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Speaker 1: students everybody involved, because there's so much chaos and so

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Speaker 1: much confusion surrounding it. But I would definitely to your

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Speaker 1: point that you just said, I would. I would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, part of my heart is because in the media,

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Speaker 1: the trauma, the event itself is always so sensationalized. My

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Speaker 1: hope is always to sensationalize the hope and the stories

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Speaker 1: and the people who survived and the people that we

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Speaker 1: lost telling their stories. I think those are the important

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Speaker 1: pieces that sometimes we miss. Yeah, I agree with that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we recently taught to one from every town,

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Speaker 1: and she's also lost many people in her family to

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Speaker 1: gun violence, and she've made a specific point to say

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Speaker 1: say their full name every time she talked about the story,

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Speaker 1: and I've pointed that out because to me, that was

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Speaker 1: that is one of the things that gets really lost

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Speaker 1: as we, like you said, either sensationalize the shooters or

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Speaker 1: the people who caused these things, or we just say

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Speaker 1: the victims and we don't. We've kind of like it's

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Speaker 1: a generalization versus like a specific No, this is a

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Speaker 1: life lost. Here's who that person was, here's their name,

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Speaker 1: here's who their family was, you know, because I think

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Speaker 1: that is how we've become so desensitized, or we have

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Speaker 1: become so desensitized to all of these losses. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I think when you when you speak

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Speaker 1: in general terms, Yeah, it's easy to just post it

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Speaker 1: on social media, as you said, and move along, maybe

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Speaker 1: get angry for a couple days and move along. But

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes we can allow those into tense emotions

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Speaker 1: that we feel to if we channel those to move

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Speaker 1: us forward in progress, I think we can really use

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Speaker 1: those in a productive way. And I think there's a

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Speaker 1: fine line of just being angry and being divided just

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Speaker 1: for the sake of it, But then there's another to

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Speaker 1: really taking those things and using them towards towards action,

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Speaker 1: And you know, for me specifically, I have such a

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Speaker 1: heart to wrap my arms around a hurting community and

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Speaker 1: walk alongside of survivors. Sadly, I often talk about the

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Speaker 1: fact that, you know, we're this, this community of survivors

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Speaker 1: is growing exponentially by the day, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: want people to understand that as a part of this community,

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Speaker 1: that they are not alone, that they're seeing there heard,

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Speaker 1: their value, their story matters regardless of where they were

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Speaker 1: during the shooting. I just I want people to know

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Speaker 1: that that's what we're here for. We're going to link

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Speaker 1: arms together and we're gon we're going to see you

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Speaker 1: through this. We're gonna walk you towards hope and healing.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those things where it's, like you mentioned

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Speaker 1: this before we got on the podcast, but like Chip

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Speaker 1: and I can sit here and empathize or sympathize with

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Speaker 1: you and be like this, I can't imagine what that

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Speaker 1: would feel like. And that's the point, we literally can't

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Speaker 1: imagine it. And so there's only so many people or

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Speaker 1: the community, like you just described, of people who can

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Speaker 1: truly understand what that feels like and what the person

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Speaker 1: might need after the fact, because it is a completely

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Speaker 1: life changing event. As you mentioned, the trauma around it

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Speaker 1: is not something that just goes away, you know, and

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Speaker 1: so it's learning to live with this new, new experience

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Speaker 1: that you went through. And I'm sure having the support

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Speaker 1: of others who can relate is just undeniably helpful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think oftentimes when we walk through anything,

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Speaker 1: now this is for a survivor or anybody who's walked

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Speaker 1: through difficult time, and that's all of us. That's all

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Speaker 1: of us with skin on who walk this planet. We

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Speaker 1: all can understand what it is to go through difficult circumstances.

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Speaker 1: But I really want people to understand that the fear

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Speaker 1: and the anger and the bitterness and the confusion and

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Speaker 1: the anxiety and all of those feelings that you feel,

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Speaker 1: those are normal. It doesn't people feel broken. They feel like,

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Speaker 1: oh this is I'm I'm never going to be the

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Speaker 1: same again and I can't be fixed. And what I

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Speaker 1: say to people is those are completely normal. Are Those

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00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: are so human and they're so natural, and really, for me,

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Speaker 1: they're indicators of areas that need to be addressed. And

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00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 1: so instead of leaving people feeling hopeless and feeling like

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Speaker 1: they're forever broken, we're saying no, this is normal and

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Speaker 1: there's a way through. We know enough about trauma on

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Speaker 1: the brain and body, and therefore we know that it

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Speaker 1: can be healed. And so I always try to bring

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Speaker 1: that message of hope to other survivors, to say, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't end here, the trauma, the tragedy, It doesn't have

408
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Speaker 1: the last say, but there's a way through it, and

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Speaker 1: there's a way to thrive, not just survive, but thrive

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Speaker 1: on the other side. Yeah, can I ask it, did

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Speaker 1: you ever feel guilty for surviving? Absolutely? Yes. Survivor's guilt

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Speaker 1: is probably one of the most common things that all

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Speaker 1: of survivors feel, this idea of I'm thankful to be alive,

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Speaker 1: but why did I survive and other people didn't? And

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Speaker 1: I mean I can say from personal experience that yes,

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Speaker 1: I was grateful that I survived, but there were so

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Speaker 1: many days that I wished that I had died. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the pain was overwhelming and the grief was so suffocating.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know how I could walk through. And yet

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously that was in the days after. But

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Speaker 1: it's a very common thing. So even in my kid's

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Speaker 1: book to Survivors, I talk about the importance of we

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Speaker 1: must talk about the people that we've lost. And I

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00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: know sometimes that can make people feel uncomfortable or anxious

425
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: to talk about people who have died. But we have

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00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: to remember their lives and the jokes that they told,

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00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: and we can laugh and we can smile. That's the

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00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: best way that we can carry them with us and

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Speaker 1: carry on their legacy. And in fact, I remember a

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Speaker 1: story when the shootings at Columbine happened, my friend Cassie

431
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: had died. I remember going to her parents house for dinner,

432
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: and I expressed that very feeling to them, the survivor's guilt.

433
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: I said, I'm so I feel so guilty that I'm

434
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: here and Cassie isn't. And I feel guilty every time

435
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: I smile or I laugh or I think about the future,

436
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: because you don't get to have that, and Cassie doesn't

437
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: get to have that. And they looked me in the

438
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: eye and they said, Crystal, the best way that you

439
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: can honor Cassie's life is you can go and live

440
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: yours and you smile again, and you laugh again, and

441
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: you live your life, because that will honor our daughter

442
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: the most. And that gave me kind of the permission

443
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: that I needed to live life again and to know

444
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: that it would be okay and know that it was

445
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: okay that I lived. Yeah, well, I'm imagining that there's

446
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: a lot of mixed emotions to work through as grief

447
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: does work. I mean, it seems like, you know, you

448
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: kind of ride the waves of stuff and this is one,

449
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: like we said, that not a lot of people can

450
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: directly identify with. And so how I found you was

451
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: because we have a community here what would you call

452
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: on site a therapeutic place that people go retreat there,

453
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: all those all of those words, it all in one.

454
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: But it's in Nashville or outside of Nashville. And they

455
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: have now created a program that you were very helpful

456
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: in creating called Triumph Over Tragedy and it is directly

457
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: made for people who have gone through and experienced such

458
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: a tragedy as you have. So can you talk us

459
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: through a little bit about the program, what it looks

460
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: like and how you guys are helping others? Absolutely, Chip,

461
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: you nailed it. It's a therapeutic retreat center there we go, Yes,

462
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: And so it's such a beautiful place. I mean the

463
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: campus alone, the sprawling, beautiful place where it's quiet and

464
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: you just get to reconnect with yourself and nature and

465
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: all of those things. It's so important. But we have

466
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: a forty bed facility that can accommodate a variety of

467
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: people who are in different walks of life. But specifically

468
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: through the on site Foundation, we created a program called

469
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: Triumph Over Tragedy, and I'm so proud of this program,

470
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: mostly because there is nothing like it that exists for

471
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: survivors out there. There's very few resources for survivors. And again,

472
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: as we talked about these these shootings have become so

473
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: commonplace and this community of survivors continues to grow. We

474
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: wanted to create a space where people could come and

475
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: get the tools and get the help within community that

476
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: they deserve. It doesn't matter their background, their socioeconomic status, race, religion, gender,

477
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: anyone gets to come. Anyone is welcome, and they get

478
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: to come for free because of amazing donors who have

479
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: made that possible. And so that's what's so special is

480
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: that survivors come from all over the country, representing all

481
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: of the different tragedies that we've seen over the last

482
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: many years. They come for a six day experience. It's

483
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: a curated experience with the best in class experts, in

484
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: trauma trauma therapy, and so we use a variety of

485
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: different modalities. Modalities is just a fancy way of saying

486
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: different types of therapy, because we've really learned that with

487
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: specifically with school shootings, or rather with mass shootings, that

488
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: there's such a high level of acuity that it's really

489
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: important that talk therapy, the normal traditional talk therapy, it

490
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: doesn't always kind of process that trauma. So we get

491
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: to psychodrama therapy and body movement therapy and adventure therapy

492
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: and art therapy and all of these beautiful different things,

493
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: and we get to do so within community because we

494
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: believe that healing takes place within community. And it's just

495
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: such a it's so amazing to see these survivors come

496
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: in and they've been activated, and they have all of

497
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: their having nightmares, and I mean, the tragedy itself is

498
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: just controlling their lives. And to see over six days

499
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: this transformation that takes place in all of us is remarkable,

500
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: and people are getting their lives back, and though we

501
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: can't go back to who we were before, we get

502
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: to walk out a better version of ourselves. And that's

503
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: really what triumph over tragedy does. It gives you lifelong friends,

504
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: people that you get to do life with, because that

505
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: pure support I think we mentioned it before is so vital.

506
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: We need one another, and so there's so many beautiful

507
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: components to our program. It's one of the highest privileges

508
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: of my life that I've been able to create this

509
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: for fellow survivors. I bet I have such a mixed

510
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: reaction to it because I want the people who have

511
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: been through it to have somewhere to go. And it

512
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: makes me really sad that we even have to have

513
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: programs like this, and that I'm sure the numbers are

514
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: continuing to grow even greater. And oh shoot, sorry, I

515
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: keep getting these alerts on my phone, which are not

516
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: good for podcast recordings. But yeah, it's just it's sad

517
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: to me because the numbers are growing and they haven't changed,

518
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: and the fact that there is a program out there

519
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: like this is great and also really sad. Do you

520
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: have those kind of feelings about it? Oh? Absolutely. I

521
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: wish with my whole heart that there was no need

522
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: for a triumph over tragedy, that there was no need

523
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: for my books, that there was no need for me

524
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: to speak. You know, I've often said, and I've told

525
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 1: my own children twenty three years ago, when the events

526
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: at Columbine happened, I hoped and prayed that it would

527
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: be the last that nobody would nobody else would have

528
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: to experience what my family and my friends and my

529
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: community experienced. And yet here we are, twenty three years

530
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: down the road, and the countless lives that have forever

531
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: been changed and forever impacted. It's absolutely heartbreaking, and I've

532
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: often said I'm so sorry I haven't done enough. I

533
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: wish I could do more. I'm trying to do my part,

534
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: but it just continues to happen. And so to that end,

535
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: I continue to do the work in in in way

536
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: of prevention, but also to support those who have who

537
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: have experienced it, who have been affected by it. But

538
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: I wish that I had a different job. I wish

539
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: that that this is not twenty three years later my career.

540
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: But I think what I am most passionate about is

541
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: making sure that those who have been through it have

542
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: the support that they need and they deserve. Oftentimes, funds

543
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: run up very quickly in communities where mass shootings happen,

544
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: there's very few resources, there's very few people who are

545
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: trauma trained, counselors and therapists who understand trauma, who can

546
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: help people walk through that, and so we want to

547
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: show people, um that there are tools, there are resources,

548
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: they exist out there, and we're trying to create more.

549
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 1: But um, you know, uh, it's it's it's slow going.

550
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: It's slow going this. People are understanding more and more

551
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: the need for mental health support, but it's it's been

552
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: a slow ground swell and I think we're finally starting

553
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: to see that and the importance of that, but it's

554
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: taking time. Yeah, I would imagine. So, I mean it's

555
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: two different conversations because obviously the prevention piece, as you said,

556
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: is a really important one, and we've had some of

557
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: those discussions on the podcast, but I do want to

558
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: keep this one focused to the people healing and as

559
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: as it is with any trauma, I know that it

560
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: becomes this lifelong journey that kind of ebbs and flows,

561
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: and you know, you can get sugar. So what happens

562
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: for you when it happens again, like what happened for

563
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: you when you saw Uvaldi? Yeah, you know, that's a

564
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: that's a kind of a complex answer, mostly because over

565
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: the last twenty three years I've worked very hard to

566
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: work on my own healing, and so thankfully I can

567
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: say that when a shooting happens, I am not I

568
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: am activated in certain ways, but I am not retraumatized,

569
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: meaning I don't go back to being a Columbine sixteen

570
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: year old kid. Underneath of the table, I can feel

571
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: empathy and I can feel compassion for the people who

572
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: are walking through it, and that then spurs me on

573
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: towards action. I'm not crippled by those, you know, by

574
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: being reactivated, and that is not the case for everybody.

575
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: A lot of times they see the news and they

576
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: just it completely takes them out. You know, their emotions

577
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: take over and they take control. I've learned enough tools

578
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: and I've learned enough things over the years that my

579
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: emotions don't get to be the boss of me. And

580
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: then I actually get to be the boss of my

581
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: emotions and I find ways to manage those. However, the

582
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: compassionate side of me takes over, and all I want

583
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: to do is go and wrap my arms around a community.

584
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: Want to go and I want to cry with people

585
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: and be a listening ear because I think so often

586
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: what happens is the survivor community is forgotten about you

587
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: know that that's a forgotten group of people as well

588
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: as those who are who have the secondary trauma, the

589
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: family members, the siblings, you know, everybody is impacted and

590
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: affected by a shooting. And so that's really my heart

591
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: is to mobilize and to wrap you know, this community

592
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: around my arms around a community, to bring the resources

593
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: that I can to let them know there's programs like

594
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Triumph over Tragedy that exists. Yeah, you just made a point.

595
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about this, but it does just extend

596
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: further than the people who are even in the shooting.

597
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure your parents had a really hard time

598
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: sending you to school after that. They have their own trauma.

599
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And especially now as a parent of my

600
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: own small three children, you know, the idea something like

601
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: Evaldi happens, or new Town happens, Parkland happens, and then

602
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: going and sending my kids off to school the next

603
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: day is quite a challenge. And it's not just a

604
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: challenge for me. That's true for every parent in America.

605
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: No parents should have to you know, kiss and hug

606
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: their kids goodbye at their school steps and wonder if

607
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: it's the last time they'll ever see them again. I mean,

608
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: that is just the fact that that's even a question

609
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: in our minds so tragic. But yes, I mean the

610
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: idea of being a parent whose child has been through

611
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: a school shooting, or a spouse of somebody who's been

612
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: through a mass shooting. I mean, the secondary trauma of

613
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: a trauma is so far reaching. It's this chain reaction

614
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: that happens, and that's why we need to mobilize and

615
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: we need to really have mental health support for all

616
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: of those involved, because I believe that, you know, it's

617
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: not just the survivors, but to help the survivor, we

618
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: have to be healthy as a community. And so that's

619
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: really I think what we're trying to do. And that's

620
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: why even a triumph over tragedy, we have this education

621
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: component that if you could understand why you're feeling the same,

622
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: why you're feeling the way that you're feeling, or why

623
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: you have those nightmares, you know, it helps you to

624
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: actually process it and walk through it. And so I

625
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: think that's an important piece in our culture. I do too. Also,

626
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you have some books, and I want

627
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: to talk about those, because you have a book you

628
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: said about your story in general, that you wrote a

629
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: long time ago. And then now you've transitioned into children's books,

630
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: which again I have that same mixed feeling of like,

631
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: I hate that we have to do this, but because

632
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: it is the nature of some of the things they

633
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: have to deal with in our culture, I'm glad that

634
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: you're putting resources out there. So tell us about all

635
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: three books and and kind of what made you want

636
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: to do that, to write about this stuff. Yeah, my

637
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: first book is called Marked for Life. Like you said,

638
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: it's just kind of the book about my story written

639
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: many years ago. Of course, life has gone on and

640
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot to add to that story. That's more

641
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: of the chapter book, more for adults. And then you

642
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: also mentioned I've got a couple of children's books. One

643
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: is called a kid's Book about school shootings and one

644
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: is called a Kid's Book about school Shootings for survivors.

645
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: And really the heart behind of the two kids books is,

646
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, as a as an adult, as a parent,

647
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: it's really difficult to have this conversation with our kids,

648
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: especially as as the frequency of shootings happen. It dominates

649
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: the headlines and it dominates the hearts in the minds

650
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: of our kids. And especially as they're walking through these

651
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: these active shooter drills or lockdown drills, they're constantly thinking

652
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: about what if this happens to me, So it's really

653
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: kind of talking about how important it is. Yes, they happen.

654
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: Shootings are still very rare, but we have a plan

655
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: in case of an emergency, just like we wear a

656
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: seatbelt when when we're in the car, or a safety

657
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: helmet in case we fall off our bikes. It's important

658
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: to have a plan. But adults are working on that

659
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: we're doing everything we can to keep you safe. Just

660
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: reassuring kids that they're safe and we're doing our part

661
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: to help keep them safe. And then it's also giving

662
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: those practical tools things like that we teach at the

663
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: on site you know, foundation things that we teach through

664
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: triumph over tragedy is how we breathe through things, and

665
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: we can notice things to help ground ourselves, or we

666
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: can say a phrase over and over again to kind

667
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: of calm our nerves when we're when we're feeling afraid.

668
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: It's giving them tools that they can kind of help

669
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: them when they're feeling afraid or they're feeling, you know,

670
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: anxious about something. And then it's also empowering young kids

671
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: to say you can make change. You can help write letters,

672
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: or you can create a kindness club at your school,

673
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: or you can talk about a plan to make sure

674
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: that you're you're prepared in the event of an emergency.

675
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: Kind of empowering kids to let them know it doesn't

676
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: matter how young you are, you can make change in

677
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: your school, in your neighborhood, in the world. So it's

678
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: really several that Kid's Book about school shootings, and it's

679
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: creating a safe space for kids to ask questions without

680
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: judgment because they're thinking about it and they're wondering about it,

681
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: and if we don't talk about it, kids think it's taboo,

682
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: they think it's too scary. But when we open up

683
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: that dialogue and we create that safe space, we then

684
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: get to teach kids, Okay, it's okay to have these emotions.

685
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: That's normal. Here's what we do with them, and here's

686
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: how you can infect change. And then the Kid's Book

687
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: about school Shootings for Survivors was born out of the

688
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: events that happened in Uval Day and it's really me

689
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: speaking directly to another survivors saying, you're not alone. I

690
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: understand the survivor's guilt and the grief and all of

691
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: the feelings that you're feeling are none of the feelings

692
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: that you're feeling, that paradox of wanting to sleep but

693
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: nightmares keep you up, wanting to eat, but you're not hungry,

694
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, speaking directly to what they're facing in the

695
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: immediate days after a tragedy and telling them that they

696
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: can remember the people that they lost, and you know,

697
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: just reminding them once again that they're not alone. So

698
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: that's kind of a heart behind those books. That's why

699
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: I wrote those books, And again, I wish they didn't

700
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: have to be written, but I am thankful that I

701
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: get to help kind of reframe the conversation and open

702
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: up the dialogue. My dad always says, I'm not going

703
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: to get this right the verbiage, but he says something

704
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: about like, your greatest hardship is usually the way that

705
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: you end up helping people in your life, and it

706
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: becomes your greatest gift and your greatest asset. And I

707
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: hear so much of that in your story. So thank

708
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: you for doing all the work that you're doing and

709
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: using the pain and the trauma that you experienced to

710
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: help others. I just think that is so great and

711
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: so beautiful. Well, thank you, Kelly. That means a lot

712
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: A lot of times. The way I look at it

713
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: is using our mess can so often become our message.

714
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: You know, I really believe that that's possible. I believe

715
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: that if we choose to walk through the healing, that

716
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: it will come and that we can use it in

717
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: a positive way. And so that's really always my heart.

718
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: My intention is, you know, to share that message with

719
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: other survivors and and all of us who walk the

720
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: planet Earth, you know, who walk through difficulty, there's always hope,

721
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 1: and where there's hope, there's life. Yeah, exactly, was there

722
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: a moment where you felt like you had healed? Like,

723
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: I know, this is something that will be with you,

724
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: you'll carry it forever, but like, was there a moment

725
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: that you felt the weightlift chip? You know, that's a

726
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: great question, because once you walk through something like this,

727
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: it is a kind of thing that stays with you

728
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. But it doesn't define me.

729
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: It's a part of my story, it's part of who

730
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: I am, and I would say that there wasn't one

731
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: defining moment that it was for me. A lot of things.

732
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: It was. I was surrounded by an amazing family, an

733
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: amazing excuse me, an amazing family, an amazing community, an

734
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: amazing church, an amazing trauma trained therapist. And one of

735
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: the things, a couple of things that were very healing

736
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: for me was being able to tell my story over

737
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: and over again, whether that was speaking it out or

738
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: in written form, because it kind of helped me to

739
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: decompartmentalize it, and just you know, it really helped me

740
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: work it out. And for the fear not to control

741
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: me anymore, because it would be so easy to just

742
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: kind of stay trapped in that fear, never go anywhere,

743
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: because we've seen shootings happen at grocery stores and movie

744
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: theaters and nightclubs and I mean, you name it. And

745
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: so being able to live life again and just you know,

746
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: choosing to live life and choose hope. It's I think

747
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: it's a lot of things. And then also I started

748
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: traveling overseas. I remember when I was sixteen years old,

749
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: I went to war torn Kosovo. The war was kind

750
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: of coming to an end, and I was able to

751
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: bring Christmas gifts to children there and I saw myself

752
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: in the young kids who had survived war. I'm not

753
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: saying what I went through was war, But I looked

754
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: into their eyes and I saw myself reflected back in

755
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: so many ways. And I saw their resilience, and I

756
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: saw their strength, and I saw how they were choosing hope,

757
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: and I thought, okay, I can too. You know, I

758
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: think it's our stories that connect us and remind us

759
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: of our humanity and give us courage to keep living.

760
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: We need to keep telling our stories. They matter, They

761
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: matter so much, and I think that connectedness and humanity

762
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: is key to kind of finding our way out of

763
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: everything that we are experiencing right now. But I just

764
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: in it, and I decided I want to do this

765
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: with my life. I want to help other people. And

766
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: even though every time I would go overseas and I

767
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: would see people what I believed were living their Columbine

768
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: like experience. They didn't have a home to return to,

769
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: they didn't have warm food, they didn't they lost their

770
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: family members, and they were living their Columbine like experience

771
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. And I thought, Okay, this is

772
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: what I want to do. I want to help people.

773
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: And every time I would help somebody else, healing began

774
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: to take place like that was the natural byproduct that

775
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: started to happen. And I didn't do it for that reason,

776
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 1: But over time, all of those experiences started to shape

777
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: and change me. And so to answer your question in

778
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: a long, roundabout way, is that I think it was

779
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: a long lot of things that really contributed to my healing,

780
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: and it was a process of time. It took time.

781
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: There was no you know, there was no timetable. People

782
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: would be like, aren't you better yet? And that's just

783
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: that's that's not what happens when we walk through tragedy.

784
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: There's no timetable. Nobody gets to tell you how to

785
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: heal or how long it's supposed to take. It will

786
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: take as long as it needs to for every single person. Right,

787
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: is there, as a survivor, one thing that you would

788
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: communicate to the public, to us, to people just outliving

789
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: their lives who haven't experienced something like this as ways

790
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: that we can help, like how can we support people

791
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: who have gone through things like this? And how can

792
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: we support helping this not happen again? Like, in your perspective,

793
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: what would you say to that? Man? If I had

794
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: the exact answer to that, I think that we would

795
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: see these these mass shootings being prevented, and we would

796
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: see a change in that way. I think we need

797
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: to continue to look at all the avenues that will

798
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: lead to solving this problem. I mean, it's a multifaceted

799
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: problem that will take a multifaceted solution. It's not just

800
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: a one size fits all. I wish that it was.

801
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: I truly wish that it was, but we It's taken

802
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: us a long time to get here, and it's going

803
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: to take us a long time to get out. But

804
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: I think whatever sphere of influence that you have, you know,

805
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: whether it is within policy and legislation, you know, go

806
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: that route. If it's if it's in the mental health field,

807
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: go that route. If it's in marriage and family, go

808
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: that route. If it's in schools and education, go that route.

809
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: But we need all hands on deck. And I think

810
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: what's important is we're so divided and we're just yelling

811
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: at each other and there's so much anger that we

812
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: need to come together and we need to have a

813
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: conversation because I think we're all closer on this issue

814
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: than we are apart. Yes, and we just need to

815
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: stop yelling, and we need to stop and being divided

816
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: and come together because we all want the same thing.

817
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: We want to see these things stop. We want to

818
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: see a better world for our children, we want to

819
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: see a better world for ourselves. And so I think

820
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: it's coming to the table and it's having that conversation

821
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: with a lot of compassion, a lot of empathy, a

822
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: lot of openness, and trying to find trying to find

823
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,479
Speaker 1: the solution, because I think that's ultimately what we all want. Yes,

824
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, yeah, I think there's there's one thing

825
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: that sort of flips out on its head, and it's

826
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: the gun lobby, you know, because their goals are very different,

827
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: and sadly, you know, they take the compassion part out

828
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: of it because it's they're thinking about their business. And

829
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: but I do I agree. I think that more people,

830
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: we're a lot closer on the issue in terms of

831
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: humanity than people want, you know, you would think because

832
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: of the size of the argument. So I think it's

833
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: really important that as we talk to people that we

834
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: feel are all different sides of political lines, that we

835
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: approach the conversation with compassion and just from a very human,

836
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, non constitutional standpoint. You know, it's it's this

837
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: is lines and people that we're talking about. You're exactly right,

838
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: and I do think that we've lost sight of humanity

839
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: a bit. We need to come back to. It's really

840
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: hard to hate someone, be angry at someone if you

841
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: know their story, if you can look at it, you

842
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: know their background and what brought them to where they

843
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: are today and why they're so passionate. We all have

844
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: a story and we need to just listen. We need

845
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: to talk a little less and listen a little bit more.

846
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, we'll find that human

847
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: humanity in our unity in that. Yeah. Well, Crystal, thank

848
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: you for sharing your story with us, because I think

849
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: it helps will help a lot of people just to

850
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: understand what that looks like. You know, like I said,

851
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: we see it on the news, but it's really easy

852
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 1: to separate yourself from that narrative if it hasn't actually

853
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: happened to you. So I really appreciate you being here

854
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: and sharing your story with us. I'm going to link

855
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: the books and the link to the on site website

856
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: in the description of this podcast. But where else can

857
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: people find you? Yeah? You know, um, Crystal Woodman Miller

858
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: dot Org. I believe on my own website. I mean

859
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm on Instagram and some of those things, but

860
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time

861
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: on social media for my own personal mental health. Understand.

862
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: I try to live life and be present where I

863
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: am as a mom, as a wife, and so. But

864
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: but I am definitely on those channels under Crystal Woodman Miller,

865
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: so yes, so you can look for me there. But

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00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: I just thank you so much, Chip and Kelly for

867
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: having me, and thank you for your passion and your

868
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: sensitivity and for just having a really important conversation. Thank

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00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: you for highlighting triumph over tragedy. I mean, again, that

870
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 1: is that is my heart. So I appreciate you making

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00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: space so that we could talk about it. Well. It

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00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: was our honor. So again, thank you so much, and

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00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for listening all this, all

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00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: of the links, including Crystal's website. We will get to

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00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: the bottom of what that means. We'll be in the

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00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: description of this bio. Thanks so much again, Crystal, Thank

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00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 1: you