1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, 4 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: the Myth, the Legend, our super producer, mister Max the 5 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: freight Train Williams. 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: I'm still here in the Bahamas. 7 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 3: We're all in the Bahamas in our hearts. Max Bullshnip Williams. 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: That's mister nol no poop Brown. 9 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: They called me straight poop. 10 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: They call me Ben Bullen in this part of the world, 11 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: primarily due to tax purposes and folks. Before we get 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: into today's exploration, we have a disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer. 13 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: Somebody's one We're talking disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer. 14 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: This episode may not be appropriate for all Ridiculous Historians. 15 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: It may be one that you cannot play in the classroom. 16 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: We were on the fence about whether to include a 17 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: million bleeps here or just to label it explicit and 18 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: let it ride spoiler. We went for the latter. 19 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 3: Death by a million bleeps was not something that we wanted. 20 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: To go with right right. 21 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 3: We did it out of honestly, we did it out 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 3: of empathy for our dear long suffering producer Max. 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 2: The conversation was, uh, yeah, I mean, as long as 24 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: it gets more production time on this one, we can 25 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: I'll believe them all, and both Ben and nol No 26 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: we're not gonna. We're not gonna. Yeah, no, we're not 27 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: gonna do that. 28 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: Well, there were also philosophical reasons for the choice, you know. 29 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: Also, I believe that censorship is bullshity. 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: First one. 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: Also, first one, lets we have kind of agreeed, or 32 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: it ended up on the same page, that bullshit is 33 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: a bit of a PG. Thirteen swear, not even sure 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: if it makes an R rating. I think you can 35 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: have unlimited bullshit. 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: You can have what bullshit if you want, and that 37 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: bullshit will be fine. That's right, folks agreed. 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: We think the term bullshit has been normalized throughout throughout 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: a US discourse, throughout the anglosphere, honestly, And a few 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: weeks ago, you guys had this moment of ridiculous epiphany. 41 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: I was talking with some friends about Believe It or 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: Not politics, and I realized we were all using an 43 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: English phrase bullshit. And it's kind of bizarre because every 44 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: English speaker knows what that phrase means. But riddle me this. 45 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: There's so many animals walking, flying, and swimming along this 46 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: wide world of ours, so know how to cows of 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: all things, and just apparently male cows in specific. How 48 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: did they get such an unfair wrap? With everything pooping 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: all the time on the world? 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: How did everybody poops? 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: Right? 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: Or the less popular book, nobody poops but you you 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 3: shout out? 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Family guys? How did how did bull feces in particular 55 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: become a stand in for that all that is untrue, 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: false or misleading? Like when did we all start saying bullshit? 57 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 2: You know? It's funny, Ben. 58 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: I also enjoy using the phrase horseshit, but that usually 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: just refers to something that I'm not into, like that's horseshit, 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: Like I'm angry about that. Bullshit, however, does imply incredulity, 61 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: And that's what I want to dig into. Man, Where 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: does that come from? Why are we so suspicious of bullpoop? 63 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: First off, this may surprise the more polite, ridiculous historians 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: in the crowd. Bullshit is a real word. It is 65 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: found in multiple dictionaries from Oxford English down to Merriam 66 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: Webster and Cambridge. Merriam Webster defines bullshit as also, I'm 67 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: gonna stop keeping it tally because I don't have a 68 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: fool errand yeah. Merriam Webster defines bullshit as both a 69 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: noun and a verb, because anything can become a verb, 70 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: especially in American English. But no, I am not yeah 71 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: God as a as a noun to your earlier point there, 72 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: noel as a noun. Mirriam Webster says bullshit indicates quote, foolish, 73 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: or insolent talk. As a verb, it can mean either 74 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: to talk foolish, foolishly, boastfly, or idly, or the less 75 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: cutting second definition, which I think is kind of wholesome 76 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: to engage in a discursive discussion, which you know they 77 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: like to. 78 00:04:58,440 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: We're just having a bull sash. 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: You can me if you want to be polite about it, 80 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: you could call it a bull sash. But it we're 81 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 3: just bullshitting man, just having a good old time talking, 82 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,559 Speaker 3: talking a game. But yeah again, yeah we're just horsing around, 83 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 3: balling around. 84 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that second definition is fascinating, guys. It shows us 85 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: a meaning wherein bullshit is not always inherently bad. It's 86 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: just sort of irrelevant. It's small talk. It's like shooting 87 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: the breeze. We all stayed a little later after dinner 88 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: just bullshitting, which literally happened to us in Baha Mar. 89 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean we all stayed late to shout quote foolish, 90 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: insolent talk at each other. Instead, we probably joked about 91 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: the weather, caught up with old friends, We talked about books, 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: we were reading, new films we wanted to see. In 93 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: our case, we talked a little bit about the beach 94 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: and the casino in that sense, in the beach casino, Yeah, 95 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: in that sense. People around the world bullshit constantly. 96 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 3: So let's jump right into uh, you know, one of 97 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 3: the more high falutin dictionaries the Cambridge who agrees that 98 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 3: bullshit is both a noun and a verb, but they 99 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 3: take a slightly different and arguably meaner approach because they're British. 100 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: Yeah they're they're a little bit less. Let's know how 101 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: to cut you to the quick. Oh yeah, they've got 102 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: some of the best insults either of us have ever heard. 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: To Cabridge, there's just bollocks. To Cambridge. 104 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Bullshit as a noun is a rude word for complete 105 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: nonsense or something that is not true and spoiler, there's 106 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: a clue in that definition They also turn up the 107 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: heat with their definition of bullshit as a verb, which 108 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: sounds downright accusatory. Noel, would you do the honors? 109 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? 110 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 3: I mean this is we've kind of touched on this one. 111 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: A rude word. Why did you do an H? There? 112 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: It's just not being British that they wouldn't have done. 113 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: That either, A rude word. 114 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: I do love it though, when they say the letter H, 115 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: they say H, which is a lot of fun. Sorry 116 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 3: to continue. A rude word meaning to try to persuade 117 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 3: someone or make them admire you by saying things that 118 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: are not true. Don't bullshit a bullshitter, Ben, Yeah, don't 119 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: bes a bs or so. 120 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Again, this is all too common in political discourse. As 121 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: we were talking with maxoft Air and we all, I 122 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: think it's fair to say ridiculous historians, we all almost 123 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: certainly have met someone that makes wild claims in day 124 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: to day life. Surely a lot of us, especially in 125 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: the States. We had that one kid in grade school 126 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: whose dad definitely invented Nintendo, or that one or the 127 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: cop Salad who yeah, who swore up and down that 128 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: they had a boyfriend or girlfriend for real, for real, 129 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: who just happened to go to a different school. 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: Oh that's me. 131 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: My girlfriend does go to a different school, lives in 132 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: a different state, as it turns out. 133 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: Oh you're going to school. 134 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, I'm going to night school. I'm studying 135 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: bullshittery Ah. 136 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: That's not bullshit at all, right, yes, the God honest. Hey. 137 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: And also, by the way, we talked about this a 138 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 3: little bit in the inso or I may be dropped it. 139 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: I'm fascinated with a kind of Midwestern term, the straight poop, 140 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 3: which is which means the truth, the God honest. So 141 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: how can shit be both true and fault at the 142 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: same time? 143 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: Strangers shit. 144 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: There's this great Finnish comedian that I follow, a stand 145 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: up guy who plays with language a lot, and he 146 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: is fascinated by something being a piece of shit being bad, 147 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: something being the shit being good. That guy's name is 148 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: Ismo I S m O. Last name Likola l e 149 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: I k O l A. Do check him out. He's 150 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: just a genius, and we're wrestling with a lot of 151 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: the stuff our Finnish stand up pal is wrestling with 152 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: as well. You know, it's weird because Noel, there are 153 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: dozens of synonyms that convey the same or similar meaning 154 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: without themselves being curse words. Nonsense, hogwash, ballooney bollocks in 155 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: the UK also means nonsense. It is considered a rude 156 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: word like bloody, but it's not on the left. 157 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: Bollocks. Also the bulls bollocks. Right, Yeah, that's a good thing. 158 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: It's like yelling. 159 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: Balls now the bulls. The dog's bollocks is a good thing. Ah. 160 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: Yes, once again, I'm just saying we've got and antonyms. 161 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: Huh is that Cockney rhyming the dog ball, porky pies. 162 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, porky pies is lies. Being in Barney is being 163 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: in trouble because Barney rubble. A lot of Cockney rhyming 164 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 3: slang seems to involve Hannah Barbara cartoon characters. Scooby. Not 165 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 3: a Scooby means you don't know what you're talking about, 166 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: not a Scooby doo a clue, that's the right one. 167 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe the dog's bollocks may be 168 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: a different episode of World put it in our were 169 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: our quarterly things we left out? 170 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, the dogs bollocks is good, but a dog's breakfasts 171 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 3: not good? 172 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: Right, yes, because as we know it, dogs youatpoop, and. 173 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: It all comes back around, comes from dust to dust. 174 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, bull dust is also an Australian version of bullshit. 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 1: But there there are so many words, right, nonsense, hogwash, maloney, bollocks, 176 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: uh and who could forget obviously, flap doodle, oh my gosh, 177 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: not to mention, not to mention. Still, for some reason, 178 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: bullshit as a phrase occupies this special place in the 179 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: beating heart of the American dialect, right, or the various 180 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: American dialects. It's weird because it crosses generations, acrosses demographics. 181 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: You will hear the most wealthy, oldest people say something 182 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: is bullshit, and then you will hear the youngest people 183 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: say bullshit, like a fifth grader might say bullshit, and 184 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: then you both pause. Right, It's like uh in a 185 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: Christmas story where the kid says the F word RF 186 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: and then the narrator kicks in. But I didn't say fudge. 187 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: No, he sure, that's a fun movie. Now, this is great, Ben, 188 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 3: It's a really good point. It does seem to cross 189 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 3: a lot of generational divides. I think it also just 190 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: has a good mouthfeel to it. I think sometimes words 191 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 3: just kind of take on a life of their own 192 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 3: and get popular because they're fun to say. 193 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: It's that it's got that cool you in the first syllable, 194 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: and then it's got not to sound too spectrmy here, 195 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: and it's got a. 196 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 2: Tight t at the end, so yeah, and a hard sush. 197 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's emphatic, right, and so. Like so many other words, 198 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: the origin story of the phrase bullshit is surprisingly murky. 199 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: It is fraught with misconceptions. Uh, let's put on our 200 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: etymology caps nol because. 201 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: We played wearing it, Ben, Yeah you did. 202 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: I think it looks good on you, and we played 203 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: a bit of a trick at the top of the show. 204 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: We were kind of bullshitting you, fellow ridiculous historians about bullshit. 205 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: It is a common misconception that bullshit directly refers to 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: male cattle. That is not the case. It is a portmanteau, 207 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: which we love, of bull meaning nonsense, not a bovine animal, 208 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: not a cow. It's pretty directly related, therefore, to the 209 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: English phrase bollocks, which comes to English via the French 210 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: word bull, which means fraud or deceit. And it's also 211 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: quite likely the meaning of bull here. 212 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: Latines, way, Wayne, that's wild, Okay, so that's one mystery 213 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: somewhat done and dusted. 214 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 2: We'll get back to it. 215 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: Yet, things, as they tend to do in the historical 216 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: game of telephone, we always like to reference, get a 217 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 3: little bit murkier and order to part the more we 218 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 3: attempt to figure out exactly how this term originated. And 219 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 3: you know, much like manure spread gardener, that was a 220 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: gardening joke. 221 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: That's for all the gardeners in the crowd tonight. Similar 222 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: to the F word, sorry mom, bullshit has several competing 223 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: origin stories, and one of these is really interesting. A 224 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: common bit of scuttle but argues that the word comes 225 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: from agrarian communities. 226 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 3: Right all right, already said that one up by accident, 227 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: and they would sell cow manure, of course, to use 228 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: as fertilizer that they would spread. 229 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: According to this story, the poop of the female cow 230 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: is good for plants and agriculture, yet the poop from 231 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: the male cow is either less helpful or downright harmful. 232 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: So if you're a bad intention unethical farm you are 233 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: out to up your profits, then you start to step 234 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: on or cut your proper cow manure with poop from 235 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: the male cows as well, you sell the literal bullshit 236 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: by claiming it is cowshit. Later down the line, as 237 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: the seasons progressed, the customer they had suckered would see 238 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: damaging effects on the crops. So the story tells us 239 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: that people started saying, don't sell me no bullshit, and 240 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: over the years this was shortened to just bullshit, and 241 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: then further shortened to bull. 242 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. That seems like something someone invented. 243 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: And Ben I definitely had no idea, this idea or 244 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 3: this notion that cow manure, not all manure was created equal. 245 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: But I have a little bit of a suspicion that 246 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 3: the negative effects of manure had less to do with 247 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: the gender of where the poop came from and more 248 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: to do with the fact that it may have been 249 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: uncomposted fresh uncomposted or it turns out can actually be 250 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: harmful to crops due to high levels of ammonia and 251 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: nitrogen and salts that can actually damage and inhibit seed germination. 252 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 3: But I think you were going to that place with this. 253 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what's a fun story. We love a 254 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: fun story. I'm a Max's team here. It's up there 255 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: with the concept of buying a pig in a poke 256 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: or caveat temptur it's probably wrong. There are a couple 257 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: of immediately obvious issues with the narratives. So first off, 258 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: cowpoop is going to be more or less a question 259 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: of processing. It's the same across biological sex. The things 260 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: that are really going to affect your cowpoop output or 261 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: cowpoop output are going to be factors like the diet, 262 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: hydration environment, individual medical conditions or disease, and again processing. 263 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: And secondly, you know, as we were pointing now, the 264 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: timeline doesn't really match with the etymology here. You can 265 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: still see dictionaries of great repute. Encyclopedia is arguing over 266 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: this bull as an animal versus bull as nonsense question. 267 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: But for now it is safe to say the farmer 268 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: origin story is itself wait for it, a bullshit you need. 269 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: It's a bit. 270 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: It's a bit of shit, So it's full of shit 271 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: it is. Whoever may have told this tale out of school, 272 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: It does turn out the real meaning of it, as 273 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier, much more likely stems from that French 274 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 3: translation bull meaning nonsense or an untruth, dating back to 275 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: the seventeenth century. Bullshit's been used since around nineteen fourteen 276 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: nineteen fifteen and British and American slang, and that word 277 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 3: made its way into the American lexicon late in the 278 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 3: nineteenth century, where bullshit was first documented in a nineteen 279 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: fifteen edition of The New Republic and used to describe hollow, 280 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 3: empty rhetoric. You know thing or two about that. American 281 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 3: serviceman in World War One adopted the term to describe 282 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: things taking it's a little broader as just things that 283 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 3: are generally not good, and. 284 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: So by the mid twentieth century, bullshit is firmly ensconced 285 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: in the casual American vocabulary, but it's mostly going to 286 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: be confined to these unrecorded, unpublished conversations because of the 287 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: vulgarity of its second syllable. 288 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: It's kind of haram right. 289 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: In fancy pants discourse. It becomes popularized in World War Two, 290 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: and no kidding, this is a bit of a plot 291 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: twist for us, we have to thank one of America's 292 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: best writers for the popularization of bullshit. 293 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: Guys. 294 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: It's none other than the legendarily uptight, the lovingly pretentious, 295 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: the problematically racist poet Extraordinariy ts Elliott. 296 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 2: Ah. 297 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: Yes, the jellical man himself. 298 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: There it is, that's. 299 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: Him, right, yeah, yeah, he wrote cats Yeah, the Cats guy. 300 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: He would not have liked the Filmata. 301 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 3: She would have preferred them with buttholes. 302 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: So it sounds crazy, right, He was kind of a 303 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: buttle Yeah, he kind of was. 304 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: Sorry, man, we know you're from Missouri. So it sounds crazy. 305 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: It sounds almost like bullshit. Hang on, hear us out. 306 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: Between nineteen ten and nineteen fifteen he wrote a poem 307 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,239 Speaker 1: called The Triumph of Bullshit and it's a ballad, and 308 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: he finalized it with a few small changes in nineteen sixteen. 309 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: Just to give you a sense of this. It is 310 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: not on the level of Proof Rock or The Wasteland, 311 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: but it is an early example of this phrase in print. 312 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: The final form of it, Just to give you the 313 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 1: first first verse is ladies on whom my attentions have waited. 314 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: If you consider my merits a small it, deoliated, alembicated, utund, tasteless, fantastical, monotonous, crotchety, constipated, impotent, 315 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: galimattias affected, possibly imitated. For Christ's sake, stick it up 316 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: your ass, and every scene, everythow dude, every verse. And 317 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: it's like a three verses right, and every verse ends 318 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: with a refrain for Christ's sakes, For Christ's sake, stick 319 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: it up your ass, the triumph of bullshit. Look this 320 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: guy is all. 321 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 3: Right Susian for a minute there, Ben, it was I love. 322 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: All this jelical language. 323 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: Yes, that is true. Susianis to that as well. 324 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: Elliott did not invent this word sucineity. 325 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 2: I love it. 326 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: We should keep it, Max, keep it please. And he 327 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: popularized the phrase bullshit with this poem, but the poem 328 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: did not see print immediately after he wrote it. The 329 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: earliest citations of the phrase bullshit come to us from 330 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: the equally fancy pants boffins at the Oxford English Dictionary. 331 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: Ah. 332 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 3: Yes, second in fancy pants neess only to Cambridge in 333 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: my humble estimation. Not sure there's the data there to 334 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: back it up. 335 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. 336 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: Cambridge versus Oxford ultimate smash. 337 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: Let's go fight, So the earlier. That's a great question. 338 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: I wonder how they feel about each other. 339 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, who's the fancist of lads? 340 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: Who's got the cravat versus the regular necktie? 341 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: Oh, that is the question. You know, we're a cravat? 342 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 2: To Ben, who's that? It was? Uh? 343 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: Fred from the Scooby Doo Gang. 344 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. A bit of a cravat, I keep 345 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: forgetting about or. 346 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: Was it an ascot? 347 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: Never mind? I think wait, wait, wait, didn't we know? 348 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 3: I think a cravat is just to catch all the 349 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: umbrella term. 350 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: That's where I was going. Yeah, everything's necktie everything like that. 351 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 3: I love quibbling over semantics. 352 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: All right, Max, with the facts, we are one and 353 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: we know that regardless of egghead hierarchy. The Oxford English Dictionary, 354 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: which we love, says the earliest citations. 355 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: Book, it's you. It's a page turner, second only to 356 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: the Bible. 357 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, okay, I've definitely read cover to cover a 358 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: question about. 359 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: It many times. I U name a verse. 360 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 3: They're all good, They're all just so good. 361 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's real write my. 362 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 3: Favorite, especially that one from Bubble Fiction that wasn't in 363 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 3: the Bible. You know it isn't in the Bible. Ben, 364 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 3: what's that potatoes? And that was a big reason that 365 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 3: the people were suspicious of. 366 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, during the Great Exchange, which will be another episode. 367 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: Dare I say a series we're getting to in the 368 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: futures coming right up day tuned for Thursday for part 369 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: one of that. We want you to know that the 370 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: Oxford English Dictionary the OED they cite the first occurrence 371 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: of bullshit coming from the letters of a British writer 372 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: named Wynton Lewis and the American essayists and poet Ee Cummings. 373 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 2: This is still. 374 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: Confusing because here Wyndham Lewis is directly quoting Elliot's poem 375 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: in a letter from nineteen fifteen, and Lewis writes, quote, 376 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: Elliot has sent me bullshit and the ballad for Big Louise. 377 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: They are excellent bits of scholarly reboldry. So rebolds cheeky 378 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: cheeky devil that that ts Eliot. So we do know 379 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: that there are other modern writers that began using the 380 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: phrase as well, because why wouldn't they. It's already starting 381 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: to creep into the lexicon. It's fun to say. One 382 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: of my favorite names in modern literature Ezra Pound. 383 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 2: I don't know. 384 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: It's like give me an Ezra pound you meaning like 385 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 3: dab me up. He used it in nineteen fourteen in 386 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 3: a letter to James Joyce, who liked farts writing include 387 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: check that one out if you want another rebald episode 388 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 3: talking about James Joyce and love of Lady Farts. He said, 389 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: I enclose a prize sample of bullshit. 390 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, he spaced it out, he said bull space ship 391 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: he did. 392 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 3: It's still we're still getting there. We're still getting there. 393 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree. We're pretty sure that 394 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Ezra Pounds, another problematic guy who was an excellent poet. 395 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: We're pretty sure he meant bullshit in the figurative sense, because, 396 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: so far as we can tell, ol Ezra did not 397 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: actually include cow poop with the letter. 398 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: That would have been a terrorist act. 399 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been like Jared Leto playing the joker. 400 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, apparently all those rumors though, by the way 401 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 3: he started himself, Oh my gosh, yeah yeah that guy. 402 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: Wow, classic Morbius, what a fellow. Well he's morb Morban 403 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: out so. 404 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: Hard right now. 405 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 2: It's true. 406 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: There's one other origin story that we have to get to, 407 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: and this one takes us halfway around the world. 408 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, New Zealand, I can't do it. Are not New Zealand. Hey, God, 409 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: that was better. 410 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 3: Come at us and we deserve it, and we're ready 411 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 3: for your blows. New Zealanders and Australians alike. Aussie's Eric Partridge, 412 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 3: is this fellow's name, and he claimed that the term 413 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 3: was popularized by soldiers, which we already have another version 414 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 3: of the story where it's American soldiers beginning to use 415 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 3: the term as just bad stuff. And we know that Army, 416 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 3: my job is Army, very fond of quippie and sometimes 417 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 3: body terms like fu bar all of that stuff, so 418 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 3: it makes a lot of sense. In this version, it 419 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 3: is the new Zealand and Australian soldiers the Army Corps. 420 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: Rather and Zach shouting yeah. 421 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: During World War One, this term began being flung around. 422 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 3: According to Partridge, British officers of the war placed high 423 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 3: emphasis on bull bullshit, which I love that that is 424 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 3: sort of how we say it, but I also enjoy 425 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: it quite a lot when people say bullshit with a question, 426 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 3: kind of with a upward We're. 427 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: Almost Mandarin in our intonations there. 428 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 3: It's true high emphasis on bull which consisted of ensuring 429 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 3: soldiers were perfectly dressed with clean clothing when it proved 430 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 3: to be a hindrance during military operations. ANZAC troops mocked 431 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 3: this emphasis on presentation by calling it a bullshit bull 432 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 3: shit bullshit right sucking the Chinese meal, Oh guys, we're 433 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 3: just bullshitting, and there we have it, fellow ridiculous historians. 434 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: Like so many other popular words and phrases, the true 435 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: origin of bullshit may be lost to history. It might 436 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: even be an example of parallel thinking because the word 437 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: is just so tasty. You know, we don't know who 438 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: exactly was the. 439 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 2: First edgy with bullshit just. 440 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: That tasty bullshit. We don't know who exactly was the 441 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: first edgy wit in all of human history to cook 442 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: this one up, but we know it was again becoming 443 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: commonplace by the early twentieth century, and it became massively 444 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: popular once civilization fell into World War Two. And if 445 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: you look at the various linguistic measures of the frequency 446 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: of a word, it's skyrockets as a noun as we 447 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: go into the nineteen eighties, right, And then at the 448 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: same time we see the growth of bullshit as a verb, 449 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: as bullshitting someone, and this becomes this becomes a fascinating, 450 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: i would say, case test or case study, a proof 451 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: of concept that you can kind of do whatever you 452 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: want in American English. That's part of why words like 453 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: bullshit become popular, because almost any word you can imagine 454 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: can be turned into. 455 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 2: A verb right. 456 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 3: We williamsed it verbify it. I'm a fan. I'm a 457 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: you know, and I'm also a fan of it. I 458 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: think I speak for all of us language. It's a 459 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 3: lot of fun. 460 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: Three out of five. 461 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 3: Okay, fair enough, I'm great and hard No, it's good 462 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 3: you are. 463 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: You're great. I'm grading on a curve. 464 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 3: You couldn't leave us, though, Ben, without some fun bullshitty 465 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: bits of trivia at a step two, several of which 466 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 3: we've already mentioned, but leading off here in this list 467 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 3: that you've included is dipshit, which is fun because but 468 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 3: it also weirdly, it just it cuts man calling somebody 469 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 3: a dipshit. 470 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: It feels hurtful. 471 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: It's dismissive, it's a diminutive. Dipshit means stupid. These all 472 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: have their own spin on the earlier formula horseship, which 473 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: was mentioned earlier. It means bullshit, but it's somehow dumber. 474 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: I don't I think with dipshit, I kind of it's 475 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: kind of like disrespectful, like work. I don't even think 476 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: highly of horseshit is. I don't know. It's maybe a 477 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: little bit more respectful, but somehow calling you dummer, that's 478 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: personal max context. 479 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: Though, horseshit to me is sort of interchangeable. I think 480 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 3: bullshit has become so almost saturated and overused that I 481 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: tend towards horseshit just as a way of changing it 482 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: up a little bit. 483 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: You know, the horseshit a lot too, for the same reason. 484 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, pig shit means be meat slopping down pig shit 485 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: with these meatbags, right, meats. 486 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: Both dumb and simultaneously repulsive. Shout out to I think 487 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: you should leave. Dog Shit means disgusting, also just bad. 488 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: Like you say that movie was dog shit. Yeah, you 489 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that movie was bullshit unless you had some 490 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: philosophical issue with it. But if you were just gonna 491 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: outright say something sucks, you call it dog shit. Yeah. 492 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: And shitbird means an objectionable or despicable person, sometimes also 493 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: with the low key connotation of being lacey. 494 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 3: Well, that also is one that gets thrown around in 495 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 3: military parlance a lot, and also in like you know, 496 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 3: law enforcement and prison. It seems like the prison what 497 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 3: is it called pos or CEOs correctional officers, they will 498 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: call you a shitbird at least in you know OZ. 499 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: We also know that the etymology of bullshit has not 500 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: actually been studied as well as we would assume or hope, 501 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: given the ubiquity of the word, because part of it 502 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: is because it became so mainstreamed, especially with the historic 503 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: South Park episode, which was one of the first programs 504 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: in the US to use the word shit on television. 505 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 3: Also, I mean, speaking of bullshit on television, there's that 506 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 3: Penn and Teller TV show literally called bullshit where I 507 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 3: think they may stylize it in print with like an 508 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 3: asterisk or something like that, but I've never seen it, 509 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 3: but I'm pretty certain they say it, and I'm wondering, 510 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 3: we got to look this up before we wrap. Where 511 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 3: does it land on the FCCS. 512 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: So I will say so Rick and Morty is a 513 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 2: show that is always trying to push it as far 514 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: as possible. So in like Rick and Morty, you can say, 515 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 2: like shit, they say shit all the time, and it's 516 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: on censored on TV. But it's like the conducts around 517 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: it they. 518 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: Got, but it's also on cable. It's different rules. It's 519 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 3: not on like broadcast. 520 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,959 Speaker 2: Well, Penn and Teller was on HBO. Okay, okay, they 521 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: doesn't have it doesn't have to comply with the FEC 522 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: rules on that way. Yeah, the the issue was I 523 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 2: with HBO was one of the one of the pay channels. 524 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 2: I believe. 525 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: For a while the FCC was rationing out uses of 526 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: strong language. So for instance in show uh, in even 527 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: cable shows like Lost or Breaking Bad, they started to 528 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: run into well, pre Breaking Bad, they started to run 529 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: into situations where they could use a strong word once 530 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: and the FCC maybe still find them. But but they 531 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: ate it. Yeah, but they just ate a cost of 532 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: doing business makes the show better. 533 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: Uh. 534 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: The FCC currently defines three things they don't like obscene 535 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: in decent or profane obscene consumptively indecen Right, you know 536 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: it when you see it, right, So obscene means you 537 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: don't have protection of the First Amendment. Uh. The indecent 538 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: content is you know your bits, Yeah, it's Australia country. 539 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: Last one is profane content, yes. 540 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 3: Indeed, and the sacred and the profane. And interestingly enough, 541 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 3: the Commission the FCC has previously found the word bullshit 542 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 3: to be presumptively indecent and they define it as profane 543 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: or vulgar or irreverence of course language, et cetera. And 544 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: to your point band that can lead to fines for broadcasters. 545 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 3: But courts, on the other hand, have oftentimes struck down 546 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 3: FCC and decency policies, finding them to be too vague 547 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 3: as recently as twenty ten, and appeals courts struck down 548 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 3: some aspects of this policy after it they tried to 549 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 3: apply it to quote, fleeting expletives that kind of slide 550 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: through on live television. 551 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, language or material that in context depicts or describes 552 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: in terms patently offensive as measured by here this well 553 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: contemporary community standards for the broadcast medium end quote. So 554 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: they're really going back to that old argument about James 555 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: Joyce's ulysses, which is what is pornography? What is indecent? 556 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: I know it when I read here or see it. 557 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that also is inherently flawed because it is 558 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: so subjective, right, And if I'm not mistaken, the current 559 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: stance the FC takes on bullshit is that it is 560 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 3: not considered profane in all contexts, meaning that set and 561 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 3: setting is everything. You know, So I would argue, or 562 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 3: it would seem that if you're saying something's bullshit, that's 563 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 3: not inherently profane. But if you're like being gross or something. 564 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 3: Then that's different. 565 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more about or at least it seems to 566 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: be more about in the days of destination watching and 567 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: broadcast TV, it's more about when the program is aired. 568 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 3: Well, that would be six am to ten pm. 569 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: And then after ten you know, Gil will freaky with it. 570 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 3: Six am to ten pm rather is considered I believe 571 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 3: the term is safe harbor. It is applied to stuff 572 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 3: that children may, within a reasonable doubt be around to 573 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 3: check out. 574 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,479 Speaker 2: And that's why I show like Wrick and Mortar gets 575 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: a little bit morelywey, because it's always playing, you know, 576 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 2: eleven twelve pm. 577 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,959 Speaker 1: Right, and so will end it here. We hope you've 578 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: enjoyed this exploration. We hope you don't find the story 579 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: of bullshit bullshit because we're obviously very interested, so much 580 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: so that we lost account of the times, the amount 581 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: of times we said, we're still going, it's still going, okay, I. 582 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 2: Say before I say we have to cut it off, so. 583 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: We have to go okay, that's another one. We have 584 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: to end on this. Why has this ubiquitous word bullshit 585 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,479 Speaker 1: been been kind of ignored. It's probably because it had 586 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: it had this social taboo. Aura about it. But in 587 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and this is thanks to a 588 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: guy named Larry Walsh. In two thousand and five, a 589 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: philosopher named Harry Frankfurt gave the word academic weight. He 590 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: wrote a book called on Bullshit. He argued that bullshit 591 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: is more dangerous than lying because it reflects in different 592 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: to truth rather than deliberate deceptions. So liars will distort facts. 593 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: Bullshitters count it speak to impress or persuade without regard 594 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: for accuracy, so that, like propaganda, the truth is sort 595 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: of irrelevant. And this leads us to what we church is, 596 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: what I say it is. This leads us to exactly 597 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: the post truth society we've talked about on our sister 598 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: show stuff they don't want you to know. If you 599 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: want to learn more about bullshit, check out books like 600 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: Business Bullshit twenty seventeen, Bullshit Jobs A Theory twenty eighteen, 601 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 1: Bullshit Management twenty twelve, and of course, The A Disea 602 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 1: of Business Bullshit twenty eighteen. Now when catalogs corporate buzzwords, Max, 603 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: how did we do? What's our final count? 604 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: All right, we're going to we're cutting it off now? Okay, yes, 605 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 2: so I'm gonna go who list. We said shitbird twice, 606 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: we said dogshit twice, we said pig shit twice, we 607 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 2: said dipshit four times, we said horseshit seven times, we 608 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: said just the word shit ten times, and we have 609 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 2: said bullshit, not counting that one obviously. Actually let's count 610 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: that one. Go ahead. Yeah, we've said bullshit, so both 611 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: of those ninety times. 612 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: Leading us to a grand total of. 613 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 2: Oh I got them all together. I haven't all separated, sonety. 614 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 2: But out of ninety one hundred, one hundred and seven, 615 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: one hundred and eleven plus one seventeen. 616 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: All right, I think we did pretty well. Big big 617 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams for counting 618 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: the poops quite literally, big big thanks, of course, you 619 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians for tuning in. 620 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. 621 00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: I think Jonathan Strickland aka the Quist curses Okay, yes, okay. 622 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 3: You guys got got a dirty mouth. 623 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: He probably adds like the old school an achronistic British curse, 624 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: So true, so true. 625 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 3: Who else do we think, Oh, Christoph Fracionas need to 626 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 3: Jeff cod here. In spirit, of course, we thanked the quizzler. 627 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 3: We must thank the puzzler mister A J. Bahamas himself. 628 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: Big big thanks to the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. 629 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: If you like us, you will love them. Please tune 630 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: into some of their upcoming past and present episodes. This 631 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: is a true crime show all about the most ridiculous 632 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: things you can imagine, and it is the only true 633 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,760 Speaker 1: crime show that is guaranteed ninety nine percent murder free. 634 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Big thanks to everybody who went with us despite the explicit, 635 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: expleditive nature of this episode, and Noel, thanks to you. 636 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:56,919 Speaker 2: Ah, thanks to you as well. 637 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: Man. 638 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. Folks. 639 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 640 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.