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Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before

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Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that

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Speaker 1: the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those

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Speaker 1: of the hosts and guests and are intended for educational

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Speaker 1: and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is

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Speaker 1: off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can

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Speaker 1: be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,

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Speaker 1: providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will

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Speaker 1: be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a

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Speaker 1: reminder that tough times don't last, but professional homegirls do

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Speaker 1: enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Professional Homegirls, welcome to another episode of the Professional

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Speaker 2: Homegirl Podcast. I am your host, Ebeney, and I hope

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Speaker 2: all is cute with you now you can't tell about

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Speaker 2: my voice. I am super excited for you all to

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Speaker 2: hear this week's conversation from our men series. But before

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Speaker 2: we dive in, let's check out some phg mail from

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Speaker 2: one of our Chicago Professional Homegirls. This PHG wrote, I

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Speaker 2: want to start by saying how much I love and

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Speaker 2: appreciate your podcast. Your podcast is truly inspiring. I learned

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Speaker 2: so much. Listen. If it's one thing we gonna do

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Speaker 2: over here, we're gonna teach you all something. Okay. It

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Speaker 2: is amazing to hear from so many brave women who

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Speaker 2: have been through so damn much in this world and

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Speaker 2: have been silenced by Shane. Thank you for creating a

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Speaker 2: safe space for us all to share our experience about

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Speaker 2: so many different subjects. Our struggles and challenges are real too.

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Speaker 2: In a world where we are told to be quiet,

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Speaker 2: you allow us to speak freely and be heard. I

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Speaker 2: truly appreciate you and your creativity. Oh, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much to this Chicago professional homegirl for sitting this email.

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Speaker 2: And if you want to ask me questions or if

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Speaker 2: you want to connect with me or even get some

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Speaker 2: advice from our listeners, please make sure to email me

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Speaker 2: at hello at thephgpodcast dot com. And also if you

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Speaker 2: want to connect with any of the guests, please make

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Speaker 2: sure to reach out. Hold me down, don't hold me

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Speaker 2: up Now, today's guests would share their inspiring journey of

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Speaker 2: self discovery through cross dressing. They're diving to what sparked

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Speaker 2: their path, the obstacles they encounter and the lack of

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Speaker 2: representation for black cross dressers that they notice along the way.

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Speaker 2: They are also recount how their passion for feeling pretty

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Speaker 2: began at such a young age, how they can seal

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Speaker 2: their desire to wear dresses during college, and the reasons

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Speaker 2: behind ending their engagement, and so much more. Their story

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Speaker 2: is about embracing their true self and challenging societiesal norms.

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Speaker 2: So get ready professional homegirls, because my journey with cross

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Speaker 2: dressing starts now. All right, to my guests, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for being on a sho show. How you doing,

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Speaker 2: how you feeling.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing good? Thank you for reaching out and having me.

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Speaker 3: I'm you know, I always love a good podcast conversation situation.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I'm so excited to finally have to have

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Speaker 2: you on the show, like I told you earlier off

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Speaker 2: the air, because I've been like on his ass, y'all,

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Speaker 2: I've been like emailing him, following up with him. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: please please please come on the show because I feel

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Speaker 2: like you do such a great job with sharing your

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Speaker 2: story and just being as detail as possible when it

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Speaker 2: comes across dressing. So thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. So I should tell you because We

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Speaker 3: didn't discuss this over email, but I do use dyven pronouns.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for letting me know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's my reference, you know, depending on what

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Speaker 3: kind of how I'm presenting online and everything, like you know,

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Speaker 3: with like you know that that whole to whatever extent,

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Speaker 3: it's a character like when I'm acting, and yeah, she

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Speaker 3: heard everything, but like they them is how my friends

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Speaker 3: and family addressed me and everything.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Can you sure been about your journey and what led

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Speaker 2: you to start cross dressing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's I just always I just always

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Speaker 3: wanted to be pretty. It's kind of like the simple

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Speaker 3: way to put it, you know what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 3: identify as non binary, which looks a lot of different

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Speaker 3: ways for a lot of different people. But you know,

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Speaker 3: my everyday life, that's kind of where I am now.

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Speaker 3: But cross dressing kind of as like a label and

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Speaker 3: as like a just like as a thing. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's like all these different words have so many different

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Speaker 3: like depending on who's using the language, like yeah, different

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Speaker 3: meanings and stuff. But but I embraced them all. But

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Speaker 3: I just say that to say, like, you know, my

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Speaker 3: the way my fluidity works, it's like I go in

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Speaker 3: and out of these different context and sometimes it's like

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Speaker 3: with what I'm putting out online, whether it's YouTube, Instagram

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Speaker 3: or or like my only fans or whatever, I think

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Speaker 3: that you know, depending on who's looking at it, they

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Speaker 3: might be receiving it or interpreting it as a different way.

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Speaker 3: But you know, but for me personally, like you know,

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Speaker 3: I identify it's not binary genef SUAD. But ever since

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Speaker 3: I was a child, as long as I can remember,

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Speaker 3: like you know, I just always had an affinity for

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Speaker 3: you know, pretty aesthetics, and I I have always been

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Speaker 3: non conforming at heart, you know, you know, had gotten

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Speaker 3: caught like trying on some of my sister's clothes that

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Speaker 3: were like hanging up to dry one day when I

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Speaker 3: was like eight years old and stuff. And I kind

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Speaker 3: of like I've told that story it in like one

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Speaker 3: of my YouTube videos and stuff, and that's kind of

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Speaker 3: like my like og, Like we all anyone who has

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Speaker 3: ever who still does identify as a cross jester or

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Speaker 3: who has ever maybe they are now like you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe the identify as a trans woman now or they've

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Speaker 3: kind of their journey is spread out. We all kind

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Speaker 3: of have similar if you were born in the male's

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Speaker 3: body and you you know, be putting on dresses. We

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Speaker 3: all kind of have similar stories, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: And was like, you know, I got caught. I locked

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Speaker 3: myself in the bathroom because I saw a stolen opportunity

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Speaker 3: to you know, look at myself in the mirror and

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Speaker 3: like feel pretty like that's always been very very gratified

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Speaker 3: fine to me. I yeah, I guess that's kind of

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Speaker 3: like the short and so I won't like get too

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Speaker 3: much in the weeds there, but yeah, how I started

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Speaker 3: kind of like in my how I started like kind

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Speaker 3: of where I am now, like you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, wait before you continue, where did that Where did

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Speaker 2: that desire of feeling pretty comformed? I did it come

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Speaker 2: from your sister or your mom?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, I grew up in a

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Speaker 3: pretty like religious household. Both my parents are like, you know, ministers,

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Speaker 3: and you know, they were like really kind of like

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Speaker 3: I didn't grow like I grew up in kind of

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Speaker 3: like you know, Baptists a lot or what do you

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Speaker 3: call it, no denominational churches a lot. However, like a

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Speaker 3: lot of those churches definitely had like strong like uh,

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Speaker 3: let's just say like Pentecostal influences things that I you

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Speaker 3: know today might consider a bit extreme or or people

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Speaker 3: might say in the extreme in the spectrum like you

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Speaker 3: know this, the speaking in tongues, the spiritual wolf, like

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Speaker 3: a lot of those like real like intense like Christian religious.

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Speaker 3: That's that's why I grew up in So there definitely

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Speaker 3: wasn't really no room for like, you know, uh, exploring

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Speaker 3: on sexuality. Uh, you know, franstance or whatever. That wasn't

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Speaker 3: you know. So I knew, like inherently, I don't remember,

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Speaker 3: but I just knew. I just knew that it was

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Speaker 3: something I wasn't supposed to be doing. Like I knew

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Speaker 3: it was taboo, if you will. I knew it was

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Speaker 3: something I couldn't really be open about, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, from especially being.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I grew up in southern Illinois too.

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Speaker 3: I was born in DC, but moved around, Like I

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Speaker 3: grew up in southern Illinois inside of Saint Louis, but

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Speaker 3: you know, southern roots all that stuff. So yeah, where

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Speaker 3: did I get it from? I don't know. You know,

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Speaker 3: you you you ask, you ask some people and they

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Speaker 3: have their opinions. You know, my mom feels like I

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Speaker 3: was exposed to shit. I wasn't supposed to be exposed, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, stuff like that. And you know that that

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Speaker 3: wasn't that wasn't my story personally necessarily, like you know,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't abused in any way like that or nothing.

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Speaker 2: This is just who you are, right.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's just who I am. You know. It's

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Speaker 3: just like I see see something and be like, oh

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Speaker 3: I like it. I think. You know, I do have

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Speaker 3: a sister. I was the youngest of four. I do

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Speaker 3: have a sister who is yeah, and so I was

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Speaker 3: always closer close with her, you know, because you know,

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Speaker 3: she was nicer to me than my older brothers were.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 2: And wait, so you have two older brothers and one sister, okaya.

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Speaker 3: Mm hm. So where it came from? I don't know, maybe,

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Speaker 3: but that's not how my memory kind of like remembers it.

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Speaker 3: You know. Maybe it was like more on a subconscious level.

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Speaker 3: But she was never like, oh, hey, like let's try

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Speaker 3: on clothes together. Like she she also like everyone in

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Speaker 3: my family, my siblings, my mom, my dad, even though

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Speaker 3: my parents were divorced when I was pretty young, we

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Speaker 3: we everyone kind of like fell in line and like

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Speaker 3: acted out like you know, the gender norms that they

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Speaker 3: were supposed to do. And sometimes like my sister would

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Speaker 3: kind of be like a miniature mom my mother and

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Speaker 3: kind of like you know, police certain things. And because

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Speaker 3: like there was one time where some neighborhood girls like

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Speaker 3: had you know, I'm like seven years old or maybe

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Speaker 3: nine or something, and you know, I was friends with

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Speaker 3: a couple of other girls who were my age. One

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Speaker 3: time they had like you know, stow me away. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it would be funny to dress her she up in

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Speaker 3: some you know, girl clothes and everything, and like in

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Speaker 3: my mind, I'm like, oh, this is amazing. This is

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Speaker 3: the best thing life. Like this is this is what

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Speaker 3: I've always wanted, Like you know, I feel seeing everything.

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Speaker 3: But then it was like also a situation where like

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Speaker 3: my sister, like you know, the next day it was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: like just so did I hear that song? So like

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Speaker 3: you know, just dressed you up like a girl whatever,

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Speaker 3: And like she was very much like, you know, we

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Speaker 3: don't do that.

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Speaker 2: That's messed up, like blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: Maybe, but I think like she was friends with these

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Speaker 3: people too, but it was just like you know, she

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Speaker 3: was reminding me like you know, we won't be doing

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Speaker 3: that gay shit or whatever. So it was it was

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Speaker 3: a very like internal thing. Plus me being the youngest,

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Speaker 3: so I've always so like I've just always been like

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Speaker 3: very gentle very, like cautious, timid, like you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of around like maybe my family and stuff and so

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Speaker 3: like I'll keep things in and it will be a

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Speaker 3: little too shy. I think I envy these kids these

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Speaker 3: days who like have.

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Speaker 2: Oh please, those are too so much stuff.

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Speaker 3: They they kind of know at least where to start.

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Speaker 2: Kids are so different than how we were raised. They

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Speaker 2: are so bold, they have so many, so much more

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Speaker 2: resources than we have, Like it is insane. Like my niece,

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Speaker 2: she's seven years old, and she's teaching me how to

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Speaker 2: do certain things on the phone, and I'm like, how

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Speaker 2: do you know this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And I'm like I'm just not that you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. I feel like I'm like the

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Speaker 3: last of Like I feel so old sometimes because you know,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't that long ago that I was in high school,

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Speaker 3: but a lot has changed since then, like even in

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Speaker 3: those fifteen years so.

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Speaker 2: And time is just so fast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I just didn't know what anything meant. Or

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Speaker 3: anything was. And you know, I caught me that day.

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Speaker 3: She gave me the whole lecture like, hey, like, you know, boy,

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Speaker 3: you wear these clothes. She kind of was trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out why I wanted to do it, And you know,

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Speaker 3: I told her essentially what I told you. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I want to I want to wear this shit.

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Speaker 3: I want to like this, is I feel good looking

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Speaker 3: like this? Like I want to see myself like you know,

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Speaker 3: reflected in the way. And and I didn't hate, you know,

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Speaker 3: I didn't hate being a boy. You know, as a kid,

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Speaker 3: I liked, I liked doing quote unquote boy things, but

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Speaker 3: I also like doing shit that you know, I was

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Speaker 3: very sensitive. You know. I was also very like, you know,

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Speaker 3: want to talk about feelings and shit sometimes, or you know,

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Speaker 3: liked quote unquote girly things. But I also you know,

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Speaker 3: it was very athletic, like to play outside a lot

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Speaker 3: like to so, and I you know, I thought girls

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Speaker 3: are very interesting to me too, you know, but I

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Speaker 3: didn't again, like I didn't understand that like sexuality and

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Speaker 3: gender orientation or like kind of two different things like

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Speaker 3: these are things now. But so I just kind of

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Speaker 3: like tried shoving it away for pretty much forever until

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Speaker 3: like my my college years.

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Speaker 2: That's my next question, because that's when you started to

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Speaker 2: come out more and be more expressive with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's when I was like a senior in college.

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Speaker 3: I was no, No, I went to VCU. It's it's

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Speaker 3: a predominantly white institution.

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Speaker 2: But I'm surprised why you didn't want to go to

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Speaker 2: HBCU or you want to stay close to home, you.

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Speaker 3: Know it kind of just I didn't like not want

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Speaker 3: to go to HBCU. It had came down to Howard

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Speaker 3: and VCU were like my last two. I ultimately chose

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Speaker 3: VC because, like music was my discipline, and the the

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Speaker 3: audition process at VCU and kind of what I saw

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Speaker 3: just seemed a little bit more rigorous than what it

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Speaker 3: would have done, what it looked like it was about

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Speaker 3: to look like for me at Howard, Like the I'm

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Speaker 3: a percussionist at that so, like I went in audition

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Speaker 3: at Howard. You know, they were really impressed everything, but

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Speaker 3: the program was a lot smaller. Yeah, I just kind

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Speaker 3: of felt like maybe I would have more of an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to grow specifically at music at VCU, but I

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Speaker 3: wanted to go to. You know, I have a long

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Speaker 3: family legacy at Florida, and m I did want to

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Speaker 3: go there. I was really like, it had been a

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Speaker 3: dream of mine to be in an HBCU marching band

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Speaker 3: since I was and I did marching band in high school.

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't like you know, the black nigga shit.

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Speaker 3: It was like the roll step and all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: I thought it would be really cool. It would be like,

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Speaker 3: you know, a legacy thing all my family, you know,

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Speaker 3: from Florida. They went through there, but their band was

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Speaker 3: suspended that year that I would have been a freshman.

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Speaker 3: There was an incident where drum major was hazed and killed,

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Speaker 3: so they were kind of going through a rebuilding situation.

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Speaker 3: So that wasn't an option for me anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to Tennessee State University.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I had a friend go through there. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So when you how did you prepare yourself mentally

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Speaker 2: and emotionally in college?

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm mmm. I MNA need you to rephrase that

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Speaker 3: a little more specifically, because this is deep.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because the reason why I asked, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine the amount of feelings that you

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Speaker 2: was experiencing during that time. And then also just being

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Speaker 2: in college and then you also like learning more about yourself,

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Speaker 2: so like what motivated you to like want to share

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Speaker 2: your story with your peers. And then eventually you also

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Speaker 2: have I saw that you had a girlfriend as well.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Yeah, I have a girlfriend. Now. She's amazing.

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Speaker 3: She's you know, so supportive and everything, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I learned a lot from her every day, but she's

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Speaker 3: in the It was just kind of like weird, Like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I lived in fear, like, you know, like

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Speaker 3: all the time, even throughout high school, you know. But

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Speaker 3: to answer your question, like going into college and everything,

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Speaker 3: I just you know, was like I'm gonna just try

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Speaker 3: my best to keep shit at bay. Like I understood

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Speaker 3: things about myself in terms of like my desires and

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Speaker 3: my behaviors that I would do like one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: behind closed doors. But I didn't have any like good

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Speaker 3: contextual understanding of like how I could really be myself

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Speaker 3: like in the world that I was living, Like it

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Speaker 3: never occurred to me. I was I was years years

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Speaker 3: out from really like accepting you know, who I am

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Speaker 3: through the lens of like a queer identity. Yeah, and everything.

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Speaker 3: I was so committed to you know again like all

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Speaker 3: these different pressures, like you know, I'm black, you know

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Speaker 3: I was, I was this black male. You know, I

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Speaker 3: wanted to be cool, you know what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 3: wanted to date girls just like any other you know,

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Speaker 3: straight you know, dude would have won it. But like

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Speaker 3: that was all like this this whole thing hanging like man,

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Speaker 3: like I have this big secret that I can't tell

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Speaker 3: nobody because they're going to sew me. Like I didn't

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Speaker 3: know how to reconcile the two, so.

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Speaker 2: It had to be very difficult.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just not to think about it. It's just

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Speaker 3: sort like you know, if I was you know, if

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Speaker 3: I was like into somebody, I used to put all

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Speaker 3: my ship into that relationship and just become obsessed because

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Speaker 3: it would occupy my mind. And usually how the pattern

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Speaker 3: would be is like if I was in a relationship,

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Speaker 3: then I would kind of like just be so invested

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Speaker 3: in that that the the quote unquote urges to put

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Speaker 3: on a dress like would be.

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Speaker 2: Held at bad Where would you wear the dresses that? Like,

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Speaker 2: would you wear it on like in your dorm room

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Speaker 2: or like would you go out at night?

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Speaker 3: Well, my first year, like in the dorm room I

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Speaker 3: ain't have ship, you know, there just was nowhere to

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Speaker 3: hide anything. I had shared a room, so I just

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Speaker 3: that year, right just you know, didn't do anything. I

336
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Speaker 3: was also like involved in campus ministries and stuff and

337
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,399
Speaker 3: like how these here, like you know the politics of

338
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 3: that and everything. So it I would if I did

339
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Speaker 3: do it, like when I got some stuff, like when

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Speaker 3: I you know, got a job and when I finally

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Speaker 3: got a car, like I would just hide it under

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Speaker 3: my bed, you know. When I lived like you know,

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Speaker 3: little townhouses with roommates or you know, apartments or what

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Speaker 3: have you. Every now and then I might find a

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Speaker 3: moment to sneak out to go to this game bar

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Speaker 3: downtown and like go to a drag show and stuff,

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Speaker 3: but it would be like so so like covert. A

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Speaker 3: lot of times I would go like presenting as like

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Speaker 3: a male and we'll just kind of like hang around

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Speaker 3: and like, you know, just see what what happened in

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Speaker 3: a place like that. But yeah, for for years, those

352
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 3: times are very few and far between. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I just kept masking and just kept you know, pretending.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes can feel like another job, man, I know that feeling.

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Speaker 3: It can be. It was really, it was really tough

356
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Speaker 3: because like I had relationships with like pastors and stuff

357
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Speaker 3: who like my freshman year of college, for example, this

358
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Speaker 3: pastor who was like the campus lead of this ministry

359
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 3: thing that I was a part of, Like I told him,

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Speaker 3: you know, because I always assumed that, you know, this

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Speaker 3: was a sin, and I was always like throughout middle school,

362
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Speaker 3: high school, and most of college, was trying to like

363
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Speaker 3: fix it. You know what I'm saying. I was trying

364
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Speaker 3: to like, you know you didn't right, Yeah, I'll tell

365
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 3: you now straight up. That's not something that I'm looking for,

366
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Speaker 3: Like there's nothing wrong with me. I love, but it

367
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 3: was just so like there was no in between. So

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Speaker 3: I would meet with him and we would like you know, talk,

369
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Speaker 3: you know, one on one, we go through certain books

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Speaker 3: and everything.

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Speaker 2: That It's good that he was open though, Like he

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Speaker 2: was there for you, because I think that's important to

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Speaker 2: have community.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, like you know, anyone who had ever opened up

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Speaker 3: about it, they were there for me, but only because

376
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 3: it was kind of like under the understanding like yeah,

377
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Speaker 3: like we're all broken people, God still loves us or whatever.

378
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 3: Like they were never supportive for me doing that. Nobody

379
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Speaker 3: was ever like, oh, like it's okay that you know,

380
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 3: you feel this way. It's okay that you want to

381
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Speaker 3: you know, be pretty ward dresses, or it's okay if

382
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 3: you're fluid, it's okay if you're That wasn't the conversation,

383
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 3: but it was like, oh, you're you're okay as a person.

384
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Speaker 3: We're going to figure this out and everything. We're going

385
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Speaker 3: to read some Bible verses and everything and that, you know,

386
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Speaker 3: for where I was in that time and place, like

387
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Speaker 3: that's what I felt like my spirit needed. And there

388
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 3: were some good things that came out of there, but

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Speaker 3: ultimately I kind of reject that whole That's just not

390
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,719
Speaker 3: not for me, you know. So so, yeah, it was,

391
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 3: it was. It was tough, you know, I there, I

392
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: never I'm a top of person, like you know, I

393
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 3: never lied unless I had to, you know, like something

394
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Speaker 3: that would have made me found out that, like you know,

395
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Speaker 3: like so for the first three years, it was definitely tough,

396
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Speaker 3: but eventually I just couldn't take it.

397
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Speaker 2: No more, you know, because you wouldn't you weren't being

398
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Speaker 2: honest to yourself.

399
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I I assumed I just do that until

400
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Speaker 3: I died, pretty much like I assumed I would get married.

401
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: You know, have kids and just have this secret and

402
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 3: just do whatever I needed to do to you know,

403
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Speaker 3: survive it, survived whatever.

404
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Speaker 2: That's why I wanted you to be on the show

405
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 2: because I feel like a lot of men can relate

406
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 2: to this. And I feel like a lot of men

407
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 2: they have their they have these feelings, but they not

408
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: used to hearing. They probably not used to hearing other

409
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 2: men share these stories like how you doing with yourself,

410
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: and they feel seen. And I'm pretty sure when you

411
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: started your YouTube page, a lot of men felt seen

412
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: and they felt safe in a sense.

413
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. You know, when I first started

414
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: posting pictures like on Instagram on YouTube, like, the positivity

415
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: was overwhelming, and I was also surprised with you know

416
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: how many people who knew me actually were like yo,

417
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 3: like this is so commendable. What you're doing so brave?

418
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Speaker 2: Yeah is that especially as a black man? Like you

419
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it's pretty dope.

420
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, if I inspired, and that's cool.

421
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: I just wanted to outlet At first, I just wanted

422
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: to post things and you know, be seen. I was

423
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 3: never really satisfied with like what I were on an

424
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 3: everyday basis, I would never like post shit on like

425
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: social media like that, for I'd never be excited to

426
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Speaker 3: you know, share like that.

427
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Speaker 2: So how did your girlfriend take it when you told

428
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 2: her in college?

429
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 3: She broke up with me? Yeah, she broke up with me,

430
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: like like the next day. I was pissed. That was hurt. Yeah, yeah,

431
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 3: she listen. It's complicated because you know, this is someone

432
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 3: who I don't She was shocked, you know, the way

433
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: I told her, the way I told her. And and

434
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 3: just for context, this was a white girl for full disclosure,

435
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 3: but not not that like you know there there I

436
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 3: haven't had black girlfriends also at the same but just

437
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 3: for this particular story, she happened to be.

438
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 2: Whack, and but she was hard for you share the story.

439
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: It's not hard. The only thing that's hard is me

440
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: telling it without like rambling. But but it's not hard emotionally.

441
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, I said, hey, like I need to talk

442
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: to you about something. It just gotten to the point

443
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 3: where I just felt like every day I was like

444
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: cheating on her or just holding Yeah, it didn't feel right.

445
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: So I was like, you know, sometimes and this was

446
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 3: me as like a twenty one year old like sometimes

447
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: like I like to, you know, dress femininely. I like

448
00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: to you know that That's kind of how I at

449
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 3: the time, because I was still kind of making sense

450
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 3: of it. I was like, you know, I got some things.

451
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: I wear them sometimes like to buy and makes the

452
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: feel good whatever, and she just was like silent, didn't

453
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 3: know what to say. She was like wait, like like

454
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: what she saying, like like Kitlyn Jenner, like that was

455
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 3: like her first question. Everything that was the scope of

456
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 3: her kind of like ding of cross dressing, her understanding

457
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: of it, of transness, cross dressing whatever. So once she

458
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 3: had asked me that question, I was like, yeah, I

459
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: don't know if I'm gonna be able to like come

460
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: back from this one. But she broke up with me.

461
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: I you know, after that kind of went through a

462
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: phase where I just started like over sharing potentially even

463
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: like I was just like, you know, telling everybody blah blah,

464
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 3: caause I knew people were going to ask, you know

465
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. We were well known in our little

466
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 3: like circles on campus and stuff, and I was like,

467
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 3: I'm just going to tell truth, like blah blah blah.

468
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: And what was the reactions you received once you start

469
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: telling everyone.

470
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: Everybody was cool with it. Nobody gave a fuck, but

471
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 3: everyone was like, oh, that's awesome, Like, oh, I bet

472
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: you look better than me in a skirt. Oh, like

473
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: you know, that's so cool, like like whatever. The positive

474
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: feedback was, which was nice to hear, but I also

475
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: still didn't, you know, understand how it was going to

476
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: work with like what what would dating look like for

477
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: me in the future, because you know, I am I'm

478
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: in a relationship with a woman now, you know. I

479
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 3: it's when I get into like the finance sexual like

480
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: bisexual or like pan sexual whatever. I guess you could

481
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: say I'm pan sexual because you know I I can't have,

482
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 3: you know, attraction to anybody man, woman, trans whatever, and

483
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: I have, you know, But but at the time, I

484
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: was like the only legit hitiment way for me in society.

485
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: It's like day it's like for me to like, I

486
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: didn't That's what I kind of was alluding to before.

487
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 3: And I was like, I didn't understand what it meant

488
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 3: like to be queer because throughout high school it would

489
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: have made more sense if I had a stronger attraction

490
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: to guys. I'll put it that way, because in my mind,

491
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: I'm like I'm in my mind, I was like, well,

492
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm gay, right, but I definitely am

493
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: not straight in the sense of like me wanting to

494
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: like present as a man it's supposed to present, or

495
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 3: you know, stuff like that. So but I didn't have

496
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: the language back then because I.

497
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: Feel like when I was watching your videos, especially when

498
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: you're talking about college and like, you know, you growing up,

499
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: I feel like, at first you was a straight man.

500
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 2: And then I feel like, though, as you begin your

501
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: journey and you start to learn more about yourself and

502
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: you start to be open, if I'm not mistaken, that's

503
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: when you start to be more fluid. And then you

504
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 2: started to explore your sexuality cause then you made a

505
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 2: video about you going on dates for men and stuff.

506
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, you saw that video.

507
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: I mean I did my research because I'm like because

508
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: when I when I email you being transparent, I thought

509
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: that you was a straight man that they cross dresses,

510
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 2: and so when I think I was going down rabbit

511
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 2: hole of you, and I'm like wait, because I'm like,

512
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: is he transitioning to being a woman. So that's why

513
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: I follow up to you in the email and I'm like,

514
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: I hope I didn't offend you. This next I got

515
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: to a video. So that's why I was just like,

516
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: when you said you want to be on the show,

517
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 2: that that makes.

518
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense now how you had that first

519
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 3: email and everything.

520
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: Because I'm very polite, I guess y'all like I don't

521
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: because I'm very big on respects. I'm like, oh my god,

522
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: I hope I didn't offend him or anything offend them

523
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 2: because I was just like in the videos, I can

524
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: see the journey that you was going through.

525
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah. I listened like the whole the whole

526
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: quote unquote straight cross dresser, Like that's a whole thing,

527
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: that's a whole it is. People identify as that, and

528
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: for a long time, that's that made the most sense.

529
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: So I'm always going to like that was kind of

530
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: like where I had started from, you know, in my journey.

531
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, like I'm straight because I still

532
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: identify as a guy. I like women, but I like

533
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: to dress up like you know, like boom straight cross dresser.

534
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: It kind of makes a lot of sense. However, one

535
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 3: thing like for me, like I've I've done so much,

536
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 3: I wasn't I wasn't satisfied staying there. I guess it's

537
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: a way to say that I noticed even from like

538
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: a young age when I was like on the end

539
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: of trying to see are there any other people like me?

540
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: And everything? Even from the first time I stumbled across

541
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: the term cross dresser, like I would start to notice

542
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: a lot of patterns. One, it's hard to find other

543
00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: cross dressers that are black. One who who used who

544
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: used that that term? You know what I'm saying. You know,

545
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: I started to understand like that term at least, and

546
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 3: like the practice and what's available to like see I

547
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: kind of consider like a quote unquote white term, Like yeah,

548
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: like the term doesn't have any racial connotation, but just

549
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: in terms of like the people who use that term more,

550
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: it's overwhelmingly lopsided in that way. And I spent a

551
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: lot of years like curious why that is. But now

552
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: I kind of understand. I understand a lot more. But

553
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: but before I unpack that, sorry, I kind of lost

554
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: where it was.

555
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: But what have you ever reached out to those and

556
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: asked them those that's a part of the community and

557
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: just asks them, like why is it that a lot

558
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: of men don't use black cross dresser or like did

559
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: you ever have a conversation with anybody about that.

560
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: I've tried to. But if one thing I've learned is

561
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: that for people white or black, largely, like you know,

562
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: if they're using crossdres, there's so much like anonymity.

563
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: There's so much that's a fact.

564
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 3: You know, people are trying to be discreet and so sometimes.

565
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: It's that's a fact.

566
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: Like I can give you personal anecdotes for sure, I've

567
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: had plenty. There are plenty of like black cross dress

568
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: I've had conversations with or whatever. But in terms of

569
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: like the visibility, you know, like if if you search

570
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: black cross dresser and google, like, I feel like my

571
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 3: face is probably going to come up.

572
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: When I was on you you might see other.

573
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: Like Hollywood things, but you're not going to see a

574
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 3: lot of amateur.

575
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: Like every day when I was on YouTube and I

576
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: was doing research the black cross dressers that I would

577
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: see when they were not showing their faces exactly exactly,

578
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: that's it's one particular one and I can tell that

579
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: this cross dresser, like, this person's a OG and I

580
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: think they wear a mask or something. But when I

581
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: was looking at the white kind of parts of the

582
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: latinas Latinos whatever. They were showing their faces like, and

583
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: I was just, that's so crazy you said that, because

584
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: I definitely realized that, Yeah, I've.

585
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: Done a lot of like like over the years and everything.

586
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: But that's one factor of why I'm like, Okay, this

587
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: label might not be super fitting for me one. But

588
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 3: also because like I'm not trying to be I don't

589
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: want to live in fair I'm not trying to be discreeened.

590
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to like, you know, get married one day,

591
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: be masking as this straight man. My wife find out that,

592
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 3: you know, I like to wear dresses, she divorces me

593
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: or whatever. I'm kind of glad I had those experiences

594
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: earlier on and and I did even like move to

595
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 3: Kansas City after college, try to after I'd been out

596
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: kind of I tried to like re closet. I would say,

597
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: I thought that I could kind of sanitize all that

598
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: shit by moving to another city over kind of pretending

599
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: like none of that we're that weird queer. She ain't

600
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: never happened. I was trying to present more as like,

601
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: you know, all right, I'm gonna be business focused, I'm

602
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: gonna do all this stuff, and I you know I was.

603
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: I was kind of running away from it because it

604
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: was just psychologically too stressful for me. I didn't know

605
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: what to do about it, and I wanted to, you know,

606
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: enjoy the same type of life or whatever in success

607
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: that I was seeing my peers have. And I ended

608
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: up getting engaged out there, and that relationship ended up

609
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: ending because you know, you guessed it. I couldn't keep back,

610
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: you know, the and.

611
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: You told your fiance or did she catch you?

612
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: I told her. I told her straight up at the beginning,

613
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: but framed it similar to how I used to frame

614
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: it with like you know, youth pastors and stuff like

615
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: as like, hey, this is something that I'm trying to fix.

616
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: When I told her at the time, I was like,

617
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: this is something about my past. I've had sex with

618
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: men before, I've had sex with you know, women, trans women,

619
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: trans masculine men. Like like I explained that, like, you know,

620
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: I lived a life that wasn't completely homosexual or heterosexual,

621
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: and this is that. And the other she she was

622
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: she was a little like WHOA, there's a lot of information,

623
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: but I kind of like had waited to tell her

624
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 3: that until we had been on a few dates, until

625
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 3: she had an opportunity to know.

626
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: You for you.

627
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, me for me in a sense, right, but

628
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: minus how I would have preferred to express myself. So

629
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: she was willing to get into that relationship because she

630
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 3: was like, if this is what you say it is,

631
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 3: you're not really interested in because it made her feel

632
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable. Yeah, but she's like, if passed, then I

633
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: can I can look past that, Like it's okay with me.

634
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: I know you enough, I like you, so in my mind,

635
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, cool back, I'm in the clear. But right again,

636
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: it's like I thought that if I could find the

637
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: person that I wanted to marry, then it would just

638
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 3: kind of wash away like all the other ship and

639
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: that's just not how I was tragically mistaken, you know.

640
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 3: So after so long, it just got to a point where, like,

641
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: you know, she felt like she wanted things out of

642
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 3: the relationship that I wasn't necessarily given, and that kind

643
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: of have forced us to kind of have an honest

644
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: conversation where I was like, yeah, you know what, I

645
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 3: got some I got some bras and dresses and wigs

646
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 3: hidden in that closet over there that I've been hiding

647
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: for the last two months. And like, you.

648
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: Know, I can't even imagine how you was feeling, because

649
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: like that's type of feeling when you're thinking that you

650
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: can just get rid of something that's a part of

651
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: you like that. I oh, I can only imagine how

652
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: that felt. Like it must have been away at you.

653
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, yeah, wow, cross dressers. I'm not I'm not

654
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: mad or offended by that term. Still, even though I

655
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: don't necessarily like you know, I feel like my identity

656
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: is different in more nuanced But that's kind of where

657
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 3: I lived for so long that like anyone who is there,

658
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 3: I feel like I relate to in a way. But

659
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: I just bring that up to say, like there be patterns,

660
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 3: like we all be going through these patterns of purging,

661
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 3: you know, accumulate all this ship. I did it in

662
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 3: high school, you know, once I got my license and

663
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 3: had a little bit of allowance money, i'd like, you know,

664
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: sneak off tool the mall, buy some cute things. Hide

665
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 3: it under my bed. My parents wouldn't find it. But

666
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: then we was moving one day and my dad comes

667
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: into the into my bedroom like he found it, Like no,

668
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: well he didn't find a brawl in my room once,

669
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 3: But I covered that up, cover that up. I convinced

670
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: him that I had I kind of that, like I

671
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: had to grow in my room because that was better

672
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: than wearing the bra, which is like so funny to me.

673
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 3: But yeah, but but we were moving and he was like,

674
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: all your ship needs to be packed up, and there

675
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,479
Speaker 3: was no way for me to hide all the ship

676
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: I had accumulated over the course of like a whole year,

677
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 3: school year or whatever. So I like heels, wigs, like

678
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: things that, like I really like, you know, we're precious

679
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: to me because like I was so proud to have him,

680
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: even though I had to have trash bags fool just

681
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 3: just had to throw like had no other choice. It

682
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: was either throw that shit away or have a conversation

683
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 3: that you ain't ready to have for at least another

684
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 3: twelve years. It is kind of what it was.

685
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: Your mom and dad didn't see it.

686
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: They probably did that too, because because now as I

687
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 3: get older, I'm like, parents ain't stupid, Like don't get

688
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 3: me wrong, Like they might not know everything, but like

689
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: my mom knew that, like you know, she had a

690
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: she had a son or a kid who like it's

691
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: given the opportunity, probably would go for it.

692
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: Especially since she saw you at a young age exploring it.

693
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: So I can only imagine that she had some type

694
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 2: of idea that you're doing something.

695
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, we never had those those conversations.

696
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: And whether or not my dad knew, I'm not sure.

697
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: My step mom who's whose ship? I used to like

698
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: be rummaging through for all I know she didn't know.

699
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: But I don't support.

700
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: So how do they feel about everything now? Like have

701
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: they have you ever had a conversation with them?

702
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, absolutely, Listen, I was a good kid. I

703
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 3: ain't give them ship. You know, pay my bills. They

704
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: don't support they you know, they support me in terms

705
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: of like you know, they're my parents whatever, and you

706
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 3: know they hear from me whatever, but like they ain't

707
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: paying for my shit. They're not here living the life

708
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: a minute. So at this point, when I got older,

709
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 3: it was just a lot more easier for me to

710
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: be like, look, this is who I am, right, and

711
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 3: they love me and they accept me for what it is.

712
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I'm saying. They've even had their

713
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 3: own journeys with how that acceptance looked. At first, my

714
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 3: dad was very like, what the fuck this isn't natural.

715
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: I don't like this, it's very like whatever. But you know,

716
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 3: I've had heart tarts to every one of my family

717
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: members and we've kind of like grown through it.

718
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 2: That's good. I'm just curious what age and who was

719
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: the first person you saw it as a straight cross dress.

720
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time you saw a man

721
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 2: in the dress.

722
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I remember the first time I

723
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: saw like a trans person, like on a porn site,

724
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 3: and that that was a very significant visual for me.

725
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 3: I was twelve, I think.

726
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: But in terms of why was it that significant moment for you, I.

727
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: Feel like I saw I feel like I saw my

728
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 3: future when I saw that, Like it was just one

729
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: of those it was like a visceral thing. It was

730
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: like like the fact that because I understood, I was like, oh,

731
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: this woman is so beautiful, this woman has a penis. Yeah,

732
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: you know, so I knew that. I felt like I

733
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: understood that like she had to had started where I started,

734
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: and I didn't know how she got there, you know

735
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, But like this is I think that

736
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: was what was going on. But the fact that it

737
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: was possible and the.

738
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: Fact that this is probably your first time ever seeing

739
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: something like that too.

740
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: So yeah, the fact that it was actually possible to

741
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 3: like do that was very But that wasn't the first

742
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: time I was exposed to it, Like, you know, I

743
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: saw something on the Discovery Health about transition under like

744
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: surgeries and stuff once when I was like a kid.

745
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: And but even before that, like I don't know the

746
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: first time, like I would see it in like TV

747
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: shows and media like if it was like for comedy,

748
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: like if you know, if it's Eddie Murphy, like wearing

749
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: a dress and the nutty for thorough Friends Martin Lawrence.

750
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: I was like five years old when that movie came out,

751
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: you know. And but anytime I would see something like that,

752
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: any type of like cross dressing for TV, even though

753
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 3: it was by like an actor who I understood was

754
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 3: a ma or whatever, and I understood that there was

755
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 3: like a collective joke or whatever. Still in my brain,

756
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: I was like, mm hmm, that's actually that's that's that's

757
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: what I want right now, Like that's that's you know

758
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Or I would want to like how

759
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 3: could I how could I bet it? How could I

760
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: do that? How could I put myself in a position too?

761
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 3: But I didn't understand that there were at like real

762
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: people you know, who could like transition into I was

763
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 3: like a preteen and stuff and then like you know,

764
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 3: but even still, like I didn't understand like you know,

765
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: I saw like pornography and stuff, but that would seem

766
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: like very very far away from like every day you

767
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying.

768
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: So, do you think the media does a good job

769
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: with like exploring different communities, because like that's actually a

770
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 2: good point that you made, because I didn't even think

771
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: about that, like seeing Martin Lawrence in Big mama House

772
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 2: or seeing him being sane or all these different people.

773
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: Like do you think they do a good job with

774
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 2: depicting certain individuals in the media.

775
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 3: Uh, My short answer is going to be like not really,

776
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: especially not back then. Yeah, but I think it also,

777
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: you know, you gotta look at like what is the

778
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 3: the purpose for it. So if we're talking about like

779
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 3: Big Mama's House, for example, and it's like the what's

780
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 3: that like stereotype? Is it the so what's that like

781
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 3: a mama? Yeah, yeah, old archetype or whatever, Like you know,

782
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: Big Mama's House is like I think, very corny and

783
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: cheesy because of that whole trope, like it's just like cheap.

784
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: It's like who produced this? Right, But if I'm looking

785
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: at it just because it's like, oh, this is the

786
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: only time I can see, like, you know, someone who

787
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: has like a who has his male body like be

788
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: able to step into femininity, then I took it for

789
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: what I could. Yeah, we're getting better, you know, with

790
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 3: streaming platforms and stuff and more opportunities for different voices

791
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 3: like create art. But you know, largely I think transness

792
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: uh is like underrepresented it uh underrepresented in in media

793
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: and stuff. But that's but that's not why you think.

794
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: So even now, like I said, it's getting a lot better. Yeah,

795
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 3: but you think all these classic films that we grew

796
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: up with and everything. There's a great documentary on Netflix

797
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 3: called Disclosure that is specifically about how how trans this

798
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: has been trans people and transnist has been portrayed through

799
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 3: media throughout Yeah. Right, we've been making videos and stuff,

800
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: and it's very it's a very good documentary that you know,

801
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: really expands on that question a lot more. And even

802
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: me watching it, I was like, oh, ship, Like so

803
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: much of the ship you know, grew up watching was

804
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 3: like hella, transphobia.

805
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: I think I know exactly what you was, what you're

806
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: talking about, because I think they even went into like

807
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: black and white movies too. Yeah, I know exactly what

808
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: you're talking about. Yeah, so I know that you just

809
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: having our conversation, I can only imagine some of the

810
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: challenges that you face with your introduction to cross dressing

811
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 2: to where you at now. So what are some of

812
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: the things that you wish more people will understand, because

813
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: I feel like cross dressing has led you onto onto

814
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: your path of self discovery and acceptance.

815
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: It has What I wish people will understand, especially people

816
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: who like are the people who want to do the

817
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: cross dressing, is that like it's it's closed, you know,

818
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 3: like don't don't get too hung up on the shame

819
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 3: and stuff. Is like it's it's really kind of hard

820
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: because it's like, you know, I've done so much things

821
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: in my life to remove myself from like those contexts

822
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 3: where like I would be like, oh my god, like

823
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: you know, this is so sometimes I gotta think a

824
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: little bit like oh yeah, Like but I wish people

825
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: would know, like it's it's not that big of a deal,

826
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like, it's just it's just

827
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 3: really not like if if you know somebody who is

828
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 3: a straight man, they're also gay men who identify as

829
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,479
Speaker 3: cross dressers too, but obviously it's like, oh you already gay, duh,

830
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: you're gonna wear a dress. Like it's not it's not

831
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: that much of it.

832
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: But I think that's a misconception though, because a lot

833
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: of straight men, a lot of straight men across dresses

834
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: are not are not gay exactly.

835
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 3: And again, like you know, most people who identify as

836
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 3: cross dressers, they do it because a lot I don't

837
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: I want to be careful with how I'm phrasing things,

838
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 3: but like you know, a lot, you know, the general

839
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: kind of consensus like well, yeah, the condemselves a cross

840
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: dresser because they are a cross dressed and it is

841
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 3: a more fitting title, and that's okay. Like you know,

842
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 3: they put on a dress sometimes and now they Susie,

843
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: but they Susie when the wig is on, but their

844
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: gim when the wig is off. Like that's cool. I

845
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 3: think that's very beautiful. Yeah, you know, I think I

846
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 3: think it's really cool. When I was really in that,

847
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: like a straight cross dresser kind of like world or mindset,

848
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: crossn't felt like a superpower. To me, it felt like

849
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: so like I felt so emboldened. Like my first Instagram

850
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: handle used to be like c D Superhero or something

851
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 3: like that, because it really made me feel like that.

852
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 3: It just felt so affirming. It just felt so wonderful.

853
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 3: And it's like something that like might feel oppressive for

854
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: one group of people, Like you know, if you were

855
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 3: born a woman and you're like, I don't want to

856
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 3: wear a dress every day, whereas like you know, I'm

857
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 3: a male and I'm like, oh, I wish I had

858
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 3: the freedom to like express myself whatever. It's like, you

859
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: gotta understand it's everything be relative, but like it just

860
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 3: is what it is. If I wish people would just

861
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 3: understand it's not that big, but deal, Yeah, it's just clothes.

862
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily mean what you might think it means

863
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 3: off off the top. So if you don't understand something

864
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: about someone who cross dresses, like ask them yeah, you know,

865
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: or look to it and understand that everybody, there's a

866
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 3: million there's as many ways to be a thing as

867
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 3: there are people who are that thing, just like I

868
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: believe there's any ways to be a man as there

869
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 3: are men who are men, right right, A woman as

870
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: a woman. So same thing with cross dressers. Like some

871
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 3: people call themselves a cross dresser. Some people are like

872
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 3: you know, even though they're they look the same or

873
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: they're doing the exact same thing, they're like, no, I'm

874
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: a woman. We got to respect people are coming from

875
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 3: people are doing things for different things. Yeah, and everyone's

876
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 3: like life journey, it's just come from such different backgrounds.

877
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: You know.

878
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: You also made a good point in one of your

879
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: videos because when you were cross dressing, you know, you

880
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: mentioned how people would still use the wrong pronouns and

881
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: you you said in one of your videos like I'm

882
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: I'm a woman, like i'm female presentent, Like why would

883
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 2: you still call me use the wrong pronouns? So how

884
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: important was it for you to be passable?

885
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 3: Mmmm? That's a good question. And yeah, look in the

886
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: crossdress and culture and by that I mean like you know,

887
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 3: the YouTube comments, the reddits, the subreddits and stuff like, yeah,

888
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: passability is something that like you know, we all strived for,

889
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: like that that was seen like you know, to be

890
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: the superior. Like oh, if you the more passable you were,

891
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 3: then definitely like the more like legitimate you were, And

892
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: that's cool. But let me make sure, I'm staying on

893
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 3: focusing your question. How important was that before me? Like

894
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: it was only important to me initially because like I

895
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 3: just wanted to It was just gratifying to me to

896
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 3: like see the transition. It's like, well, I look so

897
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 3: different than like you know, like like boy, Like I

898
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 3: look like a girl, like you know, like a woman.

899
00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 3: I feel beautiful and everything. So it's affront Like if

900
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: I go out and people are still he and him

901
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 3: and me and all this stuff, then it's like a bummer,

902
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 3: just like at least you know what I'm saying. It's like, oh,

903
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 3: you know in this dress, Like that's what I'm saying.

904
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: I'm like, I ain't doing all this work and this

905
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 3: is that and the other. But but also there's a

906
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 3: lot there's like new updated thinking and understanding that has

907
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 3: perme per meate, like the community and everything where it's

908
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: like okay, like if you really want to unpack it,

909
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 3: like okay, well why is what is passibility? Like why

910
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 3: are we like you know, trying It's like we're breaking

911
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: out of the norms, but then we're trying to also

912
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 3: fit into different norms because like eurocentric beauty standards and everything.

913
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 3: So it gets really kind of like, look, if you

914
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: want to be passable, there's nothing wrong with that. But

915
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 3: I think I just people to like, look at why

916
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 3: it is you want what you want and everything. So look,

917
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 3: inso much as I'm a cross stresser, I'm gonna try

918
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 3: to be passable because that's what I'm you know, working

919
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 3: towards for that aesthetic, for that art or whatever. But

920
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 3: just to understand, like passibility kind of has some baggage

921
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 3: and everything. So that's why now like I'm confident who

922
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 3: I am, like you know, most of the time my

923
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 3: everyday life, like you know, I love a little do

924
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 3: rag with a bun situation. You know. I like these

925
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 3: little cat eye glasses. I keep my nails done. I

926
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 3: like to wear a beat.

927
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: I'm not right now, you know what you're giving me

928
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 2: right now? Right you already know because you're smiling.

929
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 3: Who I don't know from post listen, I ain't never

930
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 3: even seen. But so many people, so many people have

931
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 3: been like online have been like, oh you look like.

932
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: So and so elect electro Oh she was a bad

933
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 2: Oh you was love it what it was.

934
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 3: I've had niggas like ask me if like what house

935
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: I'm a part of and stuff if I wanted to

936
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 3: get in the ballroom culture, and I'm definitely open to it,

937
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 3: but I just haven't to this point.

938
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: Honey, you would eat them up, baby, Okay, I can

939
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: see it. Now, you should watch both. You would love it.

940
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to now I have you.

941
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: You are giving me electric I think I think it

942
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: was an Electrica. But she was just fierce, Like she

943
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: was just so fired. And even when I look at

944
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 2: your style and your videos in the past, I feel

945
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: like you was into like old Hollywood, old glam fifty sixties,

946
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: Like is that like your yeah right.

947
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's definitely my like.

948
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: Like your favorite error.

949
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: Not definitely my aesthetic. Like you know, I like, you know,

950
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: when I first started dressing out and everything, I would

951
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 3: try to dress like, oh like what what a like

952
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 3: stylesh sensible, you know, mature like woman like you know,

953
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: wear and everything, and so yeah, I think a lot

954
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: of us, you know, if you if you were born

955
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 3: male and you got to cross the bridge somehow, you

956
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, Like, if you, however way, you

957
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: cross a lot of us like whoever was influencing us,

958
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 3: Like you know, whether it's our mom or our grandma

959
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 3: or whoever we usually have some people who's like style

960
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: I feel like, but yeah, that glamness. I think like

961
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 3: Wesley Snipes in that movie.

962
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 2: Too Long food food like everything fire.

963
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 3: No Sima Jackson like you know, like her, like you

964
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 3: know her style and everything. I'm not as like sassy

965
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 3: or have as much attend That's a classic.

966
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: I love. That's great.

967
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 3: I used to secretly dbr it like in in high

968
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 3: school and like watch it late at night and everything.

969
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 2: But that's yeah. Now when you work, when you do

970
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: go outside and your addressed as a woman, like, do

971
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: you have to do certain things and make sure that

972
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: you're safe or with safety ever like an issue for you?

973
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Listen. The thing I do most to make

974
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 3: sure I'm safe, I think it is, like, you know,

975
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 3: make sure I have a community of people who support me. Yeah,

976
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 3: for sure, whether it's my friends, my partner here. I

977
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 3: that's tough because it's always in the back of my mind.

978
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 3: I haven't been in too many situations where I've been

979
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: fearful because when I first got to campus, you know,

980
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: and I still live in the area where my college

981
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 3: is here in downtown Richmond. Right when I first got

982
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 3: to campus, being like in the middle of the city

983
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: and everything, like being a black man, Like you know,

984
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: I'd have girls like asking me to walk them places

985
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 3: at night, like to the library whatever so I was,

986
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 3: or go to parties with them just so they you know,

987
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: make sure you know they had someone scary looking or whatever,

988
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 3: or just because I was a man at all, like

989
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: I understood that, like I probably wasn't like the highest

990
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: on people's list to like mess with it or I

991
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 3: don't know, like at least that's how it felt. So

992
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 3: I felt kind of safeer, like being out at night

993
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 3: because most of the time people would get out of

994
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 3: my way. They like, oh, I'm a threat or whatever,

995
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'll use that negative stereotype to my advantage.

996
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,479
Speaker 3: It's kind of how It's kind of how I looked

997
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 3: at it. So even when I, like earlier on, it

998
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 3: was like more covert, like I get dressed up late

999
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 3: at night, thing my car, like nobody knew where I was,

1000
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: and listen, I would do a little prayer. Like before

1001
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: I I'd be like, Lord, even when I thought I

1002
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 3: was sending you feel what I'm saying, I still be like, listen,

1003
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 3: I gotta do what I gotta do right now. Please

1004
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 3: don't let me and let me return home safely. And

1005
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 3: that'd be a little prayer that I said, and then

1006
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 3: I go do what I did. But you know, I

1007
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: I understand that there are situations that I could find

1008
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: myself in that might be out of my control. But

1009
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 3: I don't really be that fearful. I just make sure

1010
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 3: I moved smart and stuff like, was.

1011
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: That ever a situation where it could have took a

1012
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: turn for the worst.

1013
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 3: Sometimes I would do some like sketch things like I well,

1014
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 3: so I would like early on, I would do things

1015
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 3: where I would like maybe have non hetero nons like

1016
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 3: not non hetero relations like in secret, but presenting as

1017
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 3: a guy like I would oh or or I would

1018
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 3: do the reverse, you know, And that's kind of that's

1019
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 3: my superpower, my shape shifting this like, and that's just

1020
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, I'm not like doing sketch shit like

1021
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 3: that or being secretive now, But how I was engaged

1022
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 3: with my sexuality at the time. I would one time

1023
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 3: I was meeting up with this this trans woman who

1024
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 3: I met online, and we were meeting up like hook

1025
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 3: up and everything, and you know, drive across the bridge

1026
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 3: into like you know, this neighborhood that uh it was

1027
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,479
Speaker 3: a little little sketch. I don't really like saying sketch.

1028
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1029
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 3: It was what it was. It was what it was.

1030
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: And I pulled up and everything, and like my desire

1031
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: to like have this experience was just I couldn't talk

1032
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 3: to nobody, I could whatever, like, so I was like,

1033
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 3: I gotta go through with this and everything. So I

1034
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 3: show up and I mean I was like, I was

1035
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 3: like ass naked, and all of a sudden, uh, she

1036
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 3: like someone's not at the door, and she's like, oh shit,

1037
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: hold up, what happened? Yeah, Like I don't know who

1038
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 3: it was, but I don't know if it was for Nigga.

1039
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: If it was, I don't know. I don't know it

1040
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: was it was somebody who it was a better look

1041
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: for me not to be around when they were there,

1042
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: That's all I know. And so she had me like

1043
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 3: hide in this closet, and I'm like nineteen or some

1044
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 3: shit like that, Like I'm nineteen or twenty, and I'm

1045
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: just like, I don't know what's going on. I'm scared.

1046
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: And you asked Nigga closet right in a closet, Oh

1047
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 3: my god. So but again, even in that situation, I

1048
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 3: was calm, cool, collected. I'm thinking, like, Okay, what do

1049
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: I need to do if I need to, like, you know,

1050
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 3: kung fu or get out of here or whatever. But

1051
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 3: that was kind of like the most precarious situation I've

1052
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 3: been in, at least seemingly precarious situation I've been in.

1053
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 3: But you know, I've had people say like hateful things

1054
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 3: to me, but I've never been in a situation where

1055
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 3: like I felt like immediate threat of my physical safety

1056
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 3: unless I blocked it out.

1057
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: Like I don't think, okay, good, good, good child, you

1058
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: being ass naked in this closet. I can only imagine

1059
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 2: what you was thinking. You don't even know this person

1060
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:23,479
Speaker 2: like that?

1061
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 3: Oh I was really I was really out here on

1062
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 3: some risky business.

1063
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 2: Yes, so we're almost finished. But what has been the

1064
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: most fulfilling part of your cross dressing experience? Oh?

1065
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: The most fulfilling part is you know, I found a

1066
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 3: lot of freedom, you know, personal life and literally, like

1067
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 3: my ex fiancee, who I mentioned earlier, we broke up.

1068
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 3: We broke up in October two thousand and one. By November,

1069
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 3: I started an only fans, started making money, immedialy, not

1070
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 3: crazy money, but like like that first month, I was

1071
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 3: like because I had put myself out there when I

1072
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: before I moved to Kansas City, I had developed a

1073
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 3: fan base on Tumblr back in the day that used

1074
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 3: to be you know, a cool spot before they kind

1075
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 3: of change some of the rules and regulations or whatever.

1076
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 3: If you know, you know, so so people like in

1077
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 3: the in the cross dressing community, whether they were cross

1078
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 3: dressers or admirers or tea girls or whatever, Like I

1079
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 3: had a following tea girl. Sometimes it's used interchangeably as

1080
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 3: cross dresser, but like you know, it's like tea for

1081
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 3: like trans or whatever. But like it's just like one

1082
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 3: of those things like depending like you might you might

1083
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 3: see that term or even sissy, like you know, they

1084
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: can have different connotations, different like specific meanings, but sometimes

1085
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 3: we use them interchangeably or whatever, depending on whatever use it.

1086
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,959
Speaker 3: But anyway, so like I had, I knew I had

1087
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: like this this following that was out there, but for

1088
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 3: like three years I had just gone cold turkey off

1089
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 3: the internet had some pictures up or whatever, but you

1090
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 3: could find it like really searched, but like people were

1091
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 3: wondering where the fuck was right, But I was on

1092
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 3: a straight and narrow. I was getting right with the Lord,

1093
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 3: I was engaged all this stuff. But she broke up

1094
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 3: with me, and I.

1095
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: Was like fuck it.

1096
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: You know, not that it was all rosy and peace like.

1097
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 3: I had a lot of like emotional and mental things

1098
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 3: out of work through, but did make that decision for myself.

1099
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: I remember, I was like, I got to move back

1100
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 3: to Richmond. I was a teacher. I was a school

1101
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 3: teacher at the time. I pashed out my pension from

1102
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 3: the state of Missouri. Had a little you know, to

1103
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 3: get my moving situation set up. But I started only

1104
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 3: fans made a few hundred dollars the first couple of weeks,

1105
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, because I also needed a

1106
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 3: new car at the same time, I bought a new

1107
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 3: car that month. I was like, at the very least,

1108
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 3: my only fans will pay for my car. Note it's

1109
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 3: been paying for a lot more than that. But it

1110
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 3: allowed me to It gave me some financial freedom, stability. Yeah,

1111
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 3: it gave me some stability, some space. It gave me

1112
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 3: a space to be creative in a way that was

1113
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 3: uniquely me to have control over. Like, hey, like, you know,

1114
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: I have this idea. I want to put this out

1115
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 3: and if you're a fan of it, you can hey

1116
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 3: me to watch it, and you know that website is

1117
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 3: going to take care of you know, some of the

1118
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 3: like statistics and logistical shit. But I have a lot

1119
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 3: of time back because of that and everything it gave me.

1120
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 3: When I came back to Richmond. You know, I work

1121
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: a serving job and everything, but I'm thankful that I

1122
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 3: don't have to work there very much. I work there

1123
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 3: a couple of days a week. I'll do our jobs

1124
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 3: here and there. But between what I've been able to

1125
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 3: build on, like the online revenue side of things, Like

1126
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 3: it's given me freedom to experiment with my style, to heal,

1127
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 3: to spend time with friends, to you know, be able

1128
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 3: to take it with my partner here, like you know,

1129
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: if she needs something or she's not feeling well or

1130
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 3: something like you know she was today, Like I have

1131
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 3: the space to do that. And I'm proud of that.

1132
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: I can tell you proud too.

1133
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: It helped me get rid of like the shame, because

1134
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 3: I had so much shame that I had to shed

1135
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 3: for a while. And even with my parents, who like

1136
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 3: knew that, you know, they even like accepted that, like,

1137
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 3: you know, okay, well, my kid who you know, was

1138
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 3: my son who doesn't want to be called my son anymore.

1139
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 3: Like stress it likes to you know, wear makeup and stuff.

1140
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 3: I still was like not ready to tell them that

1141
01:03:53,920 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 3: I was a sex worker, you know. And but you know,

1142
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 3: I like I'm grown now, Like I can have that

1143
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 3: conversation with my mom and be Frank and Cannon, be like, yeah,

1144
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 3: this is what I do, Yeah, this is my or whatever,

1145
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 3: and you know, it is what it is. Like I'm

1146
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 3: still I'm still me. I'm still a good person. I

1147
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 3: still like am responsible and you know, for myself spiritually

1148
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 3: and financially whatever. I love you and I'm still like

1149
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: you know, and also this is paying the bills and

1150
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 3: you can't say ship exactly given me so much confidence.

1151
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 3: It's given me.

1152
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 2: It's allowing you to, yeah, and be free. I think

1153
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 2: that's the most important thing. And I always tell people,

1154
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 2: as long as you are happy and safe, that is

1155
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 2: all that matters. You ain't casting nobody, no harm, You're

1156
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 2: not harming yourself. Like, I just want you to be

1157
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 2: happy and free because the way this world is set

1158
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 2: up with stressing already stressing niggas out. So the least

1159
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 2: you can do is have some type of joy within

1160
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 2: your home and if that means yeah, you having a

1161
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: good time on only face and so be it. Okay,

1162
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:04,959
Speaker 2: you're making some coins, got the roof over your head,

1163
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 2: the skin is glistening.

1164
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah so but but now look, now I need

1165
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 3: to go back and get back on my YouTube stuff

1166
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: because I mean those videos are so dated. My look

1167
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 3: is a lot.

1168
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: Better now, and I think you should get back on

1169
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 2: YouTube because I think it's time for people to see

1170
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 2: your evolution.

1171
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1172
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 2: I haven't to be listen the background shaking her head

1173
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 2: like exactly.

1174
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 3: I haven't known exactly where to start, you know what

1175
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 3: I'm saying. I appreciate you reaching out to me. I

1176
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 3: appreciate having this conversation because these are the things that

1177
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 3: I would rather be doing, Like you know, it's it's

1178
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 3: more to me than just like you know, pretty selfies.

1179
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: And I did talk about some stuff. I feel like

1180
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: there's more like relevant things that we could be talking

1181
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 3: about that's actually useful, and I appreciate you in this

1182
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 3: platform to share some of that hopefully.

1183
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I think this is amazing. So two

1184
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 2: more questions and we are done. So what advice would

1185
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 2: you give to someone who is just beginning to explore

1186
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: crost dressing, their sexuality, their identity and things of those nature.

1187
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 3: The quicker you can, the quicker you can accept yourself

1188
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 3: for who you are, the better you know, if if

1189
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 3: you're looking for they're they're like specific tips I could

1190
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 3: give you, like, oh, like you know, go shop at

1191
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 3: these stores because they're going to be cheaper, get these

1192
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 3: makeup brands whatever. Like there you can find all that.

1193
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 3: Figure that out right, right, you can figure it out

1194
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 3: and and it'd be honestly annoying sometimes when people be

1195
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 3: asking me certain stuff so much in my DMS, because

1196
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 3: it's like I can tell, like sometimes they're asking meself

1197
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 3: because they haven't quite gotten past the hump that I

1198
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 3: had to get past I chose to get. You really

1199
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 3: don't have to. Some people do live a double life

1200
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 3: and whatever. But like the quicker you can, like you know,

1201
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 3: start to frame things in a way that is like hey,

1202
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 3: like this is something that is part of me. It

1203
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 3: brings me joy, accepted for what it is, and not

1204
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 3: have all this like shame, shame, negativity. That's my biggest advice,

1205
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 3: Like work on that because then everything else is going

1206
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 3: to flow. Like you you open up to your best

1207
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 3: friend or you. The more you start opening up to people,

1208
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 3: then you're going to start to get excited. You're gonna

1209
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 3: start to feel proud about yourself. You're going to start

1210
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 3: to walk in those aisles with a little more confident.

1211
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 3: Even though you in the female section and you you're

1212
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 3: tired of the woman that Macy's asking you if you

1213
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 3: need any help and you just don't want to be

1214
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 3: You're going to be a lot more confident, like, yeah,

1215
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 3: actually I'm looking for something in this size. Can you

1216
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 3: help me measure whatever you're going you know, so the

1217
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 3: quicker you can do that, you're going to be set

1218
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 3: up on the right track.

1219
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 2: And last, but not least, what would be some advice

1220
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: you would tell your younger self if you can revisit

1221
01:07:54,240 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 2: yourself in that bathroom.

1222
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 3: Oh damn, I would have came up with a better lie.

1223
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 3: My mom kept knocking, was like, what are you doing.

1224
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm pooping. I'm like, eight year olds don't

1225
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 3: coop for forty minutes. I could have, but but in

1226
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 3: all seriousness, you know, I'm damn, that's that's a little tough. Yeah,

1227
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 3: Because here's the thing, like that eight year old in

1228
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 3: the mirror like, I remember that day so vividly. I

1229
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 3: remember looking at myself in that bathroom mirror and just

1230
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 3: being filled with so much joy. You know, I'm proud

1231
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 3: of that kid for for doing something that gave them joy.

1232
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 3: But I would have I wish he you know, would

1233
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,879
Speaker 3: have like, not just I wish you would have challenged

1234
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 3: his mom a little more. You know, my mom was

1235
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 3: very gentle with me in that moment, and I as

1236
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 3: she always was, regardless of her her you know, religious

1237
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 3: beliefs and whatever, like, she was always gentle with me.

1238
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 3: And I always appreciated that about my mother. But I

1239
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 3: wish I would have like been able to articulate myself

1240
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 3: a little better, or or been able to like but

1241
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 3: but like you know, like a normal kid would have

1242
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 3: been like, but what about Like but I was so

1243
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 3: ashamed that I felt like I had disappointed my mother

1244
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 3: that like I I just you know, kind of nodded

1245
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 3: and like was like, okay, cool, shove this away until

1246
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 3: you know, essentially puberty was like the next time it

1247
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 3: really became like something like, oh my god, what am

1248
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 3: I going to do with these thoughts? So I just

1249
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 3: wish I would have like, you know, asked my mom

1250
01:09:55,080 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 3: more questions. But you know, I'm not mad at myself.

1251
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 3: How I handle myself in that moment I was eight

1252
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 3: years old. I got to get myself some grace.

1253
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so happy we were able to do this.

1254
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 2: I think your story is so inspiring and I think

1255
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 2: it was very beautiful. So I really appreciate you for

1256
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 2: coming on the show and sharing your story and being

1257
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:18,560
Speaker 2: so open and transparent.

1258
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a lovely conversation of an a And again,

1259
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 3: thank you so much for reaching out, of course, and

1260
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,600
Speaker 3: I look forward to look forward to sharing.

1261
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 2: That with yes, Yes, and to the listeners. If you

1262
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 2: have any questions, comments of concerns, please make sure to

1263
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: email me at Hello at the phgpodcast dot com. And

1264
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 2: like I always say, it's important for you to share

1265
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: your storyline because you never know how it can be

1266
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 2: someone else's lifeline. So until next time, everyone, later bye.

1267
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 2: The Professional Homegirl podcast is a production of the Black

1268
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 2: Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1269
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1270
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 2: favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show,

1271
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 2: and you can connect with me on social media at

1272
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: the PHG podcast