Speaker 1: I'm with Lucas and this is black tech, green money.
Speaker 1: Alfonso fonz Terrel is founder and CEO at Spill and
Speaker 1: Kenya Parham's global VP, Community and Partnerships at the culture
Speaker 1: first social media app. At launch, Spill jumped to the
Speaker 1: top of the app Store. It still maintains the formidable position.
Speaker 1: Even before Threads was announced and released, the landscape of
Speaker 1: social media apps was heavy. Spill was founded though and
Speaker 1: well funded by top tier vcs who believed. So I
Speaker 1: asked Finds, what was the unique opportunity he saw when
Speaker 1: creating Spill was just an idea?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the the insight was really deeper and
Speaker 2: trying to look deeper at social media holistically from the start.
Speaker 2: I've been working in social media as marketing professional entertainment
Speaker 2: brands for years, and when we look at the grand
Speaker 2: diasporic nature of conversation online, it's almost always driven by us, right,
Speaker 2: the trends, the culture of the new lexicon, everything like that.
Speaker 2: It comes from black communities, queer communities, other marginalized groups.
Speaker 2: And so we were really looking at the problem set
Speaker 2: that's facing our community first and saying, who's building for us?
Speaker 2: No one or you know, from a macro standpoint, nothing
Speaker 2: that we've really seen that really accounts for the amount
Speaker 2: of impact that we have at the level that it
Speaker 2: should be, right, And so that's really the opportunity that
Speaker 2: we saw coming into the fall of last year, when
Speaker 2: as some may know, I was working at a company
Speaker 2: that has recently gone through a rebrand that I will
Speaker 2: not name, and you know, we were looking at Obviously
Speaker 2: a lot of people were like, Okay, what's next after this,
Speaker 2: and we had no interest in trying to recreate something
Speaker 2: that we knew had some flaws in it, right, that
Speaker 2: platform has had just way before you know, Elon and
Speaker 2: those folks came in, and we really wanted to look
Speaker 2: at this, you know, the whole ecosystem and really say, hey,
Speaker 2: let's push the medium forward, and let's start by centering
Speaker 2: black folks, queer folks, other marginalized groups from the beginning,
Speaker 2: which never happens, and really allow us to sort of
Speaker 2: set the tone, the vibe, and really solve for our
Speaker 2: key problem sets, which really boil down to three things.
Speaker 2: One is safety, two is credit, and third is getting
Speaker 2: rewarded for the contributions that we make to the online culture. Right,
Speaker 2: That's really the core problem sets that we set out
Speaker 2: to solve. And that's the opportunity that we saw last
Speaker 2: fall that we you know, that really inspired what spill is.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you just mentioned the word, I'd like you
Speaker 1: to go in on you say, you know you saw
Speaker 1: some challenges inside that that that platform for, particularly for
Speaker 1: our communities. Can you talk a little bit about you know,
Speaker 1: black people have brought so much to social media. You know,
Speaker 1: we talk over index on all social media platforms. What
Speaker 1: challenges exist historically in social media which is fifty twenty
Speaker 1: years old, maybe fifteen years old social media? What challenges
Speaker 1: exist that when we bring so much value, we still
Speaker 1: don't get recognized for that. It's institutional, It's got to
Speaker 1: be institutional at this point.
Speaker 3: Well, let's be honest.
Speaker 2: It's a reflection of how our culture has been exploited,
Speaker 2: you know, for generations across a variety of mediums that
Speaker 2: go beyond social right, We've seen this in music, We've
Speaker 2: seen this in you know, TV, and of course how
Speaker 2: it's being expressed in the tech space.
Speaker 3: This is what happens.
Speaker 2: When you don't have people who are driving the most
Speaker 2: culture building the platforms at the same time. And you know,
Speaker 2: I know Ken, you can you know, speak to this
Speaker 2: personally as well. But let's just talk about black women, right,
Speaker 2: black women over index as you mentioned on heavy social
Speaker 2: media usage, not just usage heavy three plus hours per day,
Speaker 2: no identity group is using social more. And then two
Speaker 2: on media consumption. Nobody's watching more TV, listening to more music,
Speaker 2: talking about it, creating community around it, deciding you know,
Speaker 2: who's going to be next. Right, So those are just
Speaker 2: facts that we can you know, center on. Yet most
Speaker 2: businesses only are thinking about this, you know, once or
Speaker 2: twice a year. You know, it's like, hey, February is
Speaker 2: coming up, what are what are we gonna do? We're
Speaker 2: gonna throw a party and then you know, forget about
Speaker 2: it for the rest of the year. And so that's
Speaker 2: been an issue not just that you know, the platform
Speaker 2: formerly known as Twitter, but many social platforms. When you
Speaker 2: looked at YouTube, when you looked at you know today,
Speaker 2: it's a TikTok, right, We've seen you know, black creators
Speaker 2: have to go and strike literally just to you know
Speaker 2: create you know, a news cycle around how they're not
Speaker 2: being credited properly. So this has been going on for
Speaker 2: a while and it's the type of problem that only
Speaker 2: gets solved when we as a community decide to, you know,
Speaker 2: just roll up our sleeves and be like it's us,
Speaker 2: you know, And if I if I learned anything, I'll
Speaker 2: throw this this nugget out there. If I've learned anything
Speaker 2: through this process, it's that they know this better than us.
Speaker 2: Nobody does. We know this space better than anyone, and
Speaker 2: all we need to do is just have the audacity
Speaker 2: to get after it. And that's why I think why
Speaker 2: we've had some success so far.
Speaker 1: I was saying, Keny, I love you to chime in
Speaker 1: on this because he finds talked about a couple of
Speaker 1: things that we create culture on these things, and we
Speaker 1: get a chance to amplify and distribute our culture on
Speaker 1: these things. If we talk about just black culture, which
Speaker 1: I agree with people I trips they walk like black
Speaker 1: culture rules runs all global culture. We're talking about food
Speaker 1: or dance or music or sports, like we drive that
Speaker 1: and even you know LGBTQ culture, if you think about camp,
Speaker 1: you know fashion in that way, we set the trends.
Speaker 1: And here's in so many ways we're just starting to
Speaker 1: have this conversation about how creators get recognized by these platforms.
Speaker 1: Are they being either compensated or recognized. Do people steal,
Speaker 1: you know, their dance moves and then credit them as
Speaker 1: their own, and then the platforms amplify the people who
Speaker 1: don't look like us when there was somebody who looked
Speaker 1: like us that created it.
Speaker 3: Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, really appreciate that question.
Speaker 5: One of the things that we're seeking to prove as
Speaker 5: well with SPILL is that cultural and technical fluency can coexist, right.
Speaker 5: We believe that we can be culturally competent and know
Speaker 5: who the source of these trends are, acknowledge them, make
Speaker 5: sure they receive the attribution, and also communicate to our
Speaker 5: partners who are at the table to make sure that
Speaker 5: they're aware of who these people are, and do so
Speaker 5: in a way that creates a much healthier ecosystem for
Speaker 5: the Creator economy, which we know, as Goldman Sachs has stated,
Speaker 5: is set to double over the next five years. Right now,
Speaker 5: we're at about two hundred and eighty million dollars. It's
Speaker 5: about to double, twoting two hundred and eighty billion dollars.
Speaker 5: It's about to double in that over the next couple
Speaker 5: of years. And so, you know, we're really seeking to
Speaker 5: make sure that these that these folks feel safe to
Speaker 5: create and bring their best heat to Spill, and that
Speaker 5: the partners that are here also feel really excited about
Speaker 5: knowing that they're coming to a place that houses the
Speaker 5: source of the best of what you know, makes culture
Speaker 5: bring brings culture forward.
Speaker 1: You know, Ken you I like to stay on you
Speaker 1: on this because there's a lot of conversation around creators
Speaker 1: being appropriately compensated for what they bring into platforms, and
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of formulas, a lot of math
Speaker 1: that goes into that how does how does Spill think
Speaker 1: about you know, hey, X person or whatever. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm not to put words in your mouth, but this
Speaker 1: is how we dictate based on X number of impressions,
Speaker 1: you know, how we work with you as the creator?
Speaker 5: Sure, I mean, you know this is a This is
Speaker 5: an equation that you know, folks have been trying to
Speaker 5: crack for a long time, and we are trying to
Speaker 5: be as innovative and intentional as possible about coming up
Speaker 5: with what that looks like. The beautiful part about that
Speaker 5: is we've got everybody at the table to be able
Speaker 5: to have this conversation, and it's our table that we're setting.
Speaker 5: So you know, we're looking forward to continue to have
Speaker 5: these conversations with folks and to listen to the creators
Speaker 5: who know just as well as everybody else, right, you know,
Speaker 5: what these things are worth, and we want to make
Speaker 5: sure that they're present to be able to communicate that
Speaker 5: value on their own behalf. You know, so far, often
Speaker 5: in whatever industry we see it in, people are having
Speaker 5: conversations about creators, having conversations about tastemakers without including them
Speaker 5: at the table to speak for themselves. One of my
Speaker 5: favorite things about what we're doing at SPILL is the
Speaker 5: communities that we're building. We have a call and response
Speaker 5: relationship with these creators, and you know, creators are the
Speaker 5: new athletes. I'm excited. I'm working on some stuff this week.
Speaker 5: I'm here in the vineyard. I'm going to be talking
Speaker 5: about the creator economy. And one of the things that
Speaker 5: we're saying is, you know, creators are the new athletes,
Speaker 5: and so we're bringing them to the table to be
Speaker 5: able to have these conversations and communicate their value with
Speaker 5: these stakeholders who are interested in accessing again the best
Speaker 5: of what they bring to the social space. And we're
Speaker 5: looking forward to being able to advance these conversations and
Speaker 5: have some meaningful outcomes that come from these conversations around
Speaker 5: the value of the cultural capital that is generated with
Speaker 5: what we put in the social space.
Speaker 1: You know, fines I was, I was. I don't remember
Speaker 1: who I was talking to, but there was a statement
Speaker 1: somebody made that made a lot of sense to me,
Speaker 1: and they said, you know, one of the greatest things
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs did was create the app store. But one
Speaker 1: of the worst things about the app stores. It gave
Speaker 1: people the idea that everything should be free, you know,
Speaker 1: and so I wonder, you know, and obviously with a
Speaker 1: social media app you need distribution, so free makes sense.
Speaker 1: But how did you think about you know, we've got
Speaker 1: to get hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, millions of
Speaker 1: people into this thing, but we still have to rethink
Speaker 1: the business model. How do you think about these things?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there's a lot of discussion about
Speaker 2: the pros and cons of advertising, right and having been
Speaker 2: a marketer for many years, I can see both sides
Speaker 2: of the argument. So from a business standpoint, let's be
Speaker 2: clear the just when we talk about brands trying to
Speaker 2: reach black, queer, other marginalized audiences in the United States alone,
Speaker 2: it's a thirty billion dollar a year business, okay, and
Speaker 2: it's growing you know, five to ten percent year on year.
Speaker 2: So I think that's an incredible you know, revenue stream.
Speaker 2: Now we're not going to ignore, but we're not exclusively
Speaker 2: looking at that either because there are people who may
Speaker 2: want an ad free experience or more importantly, you know,
Speaker 2: pro tools right speaking to the creators specifically that Kenya
Speaker 2: was talking about, we're actually developing a suite of tools
Speaker 2: that's going to make it easier for creators and as
Speaker 2: a as a social media manager by trade, right, I
Speaker 2: want this to be less stressed. We don't want it
Speaker 2: to be yet another thing you got to worry about.
Speaker 2: But it's like, oh, it's easier to publish, I get
Speaker 2: my analytics. I can you know, potentially have access to
Speaker 2: data that I don't get from other platforms, you know,
Speaker 2: generate email lists and things of that nature, so that
Speaker 2: the creators can have a deeper relationship with their audience.
Speaker 2: And those are tools that I think makes sense when
Speaker 2: you're talking about you know, not a crazy fee, but
Speaker 2: like a subscription mode, because we were giving you something extra,
Speaker 2: you know that you probably can't get anywhere else. So
Speaker 2: we're looking at that, and I think we're all so
Speaker 2: interested in other services as well. I won't give the
Speaker 2: whole playbook away, but one of the things that one
Speaker 2: of my favorite spills I saw recently was somebody spilled
Speaker 2: what's your favorite dating app? And someone quoted it saying spill.
Speaker 3: And so that might give you a little a little
Speaker 3: wink in the.
Speaker 2: Nods to some of the ways we think we can,
Speaker 2: you know, just provide additional services to against our community
Speaker 2: who is genuinely being.
Speaker 3: Underserved, you know.
Speaker 2: Holistically in this ring, there's a whole host of things
Speaker 2: that we're looking at that we think makes sense as
Speaker 2: premium products versus just you know, ad revenue models.
Speaker 1: You know, there was an article that came out about
Speaker 1: you guys. It was in a fast company, but the
Speaker 1: subtitle is what I wanted to pick up and it
Speaker 1: said black people obade Twitter into a forty four a
Speaker 1: business worth forty four billion dollars.
Speaker 3: That was the subtitle of the of the article. But
Speaker 3: you had a.
Speaker 1: Spill where you actually a spill where you actually pushed
Speaker 1: back against the narrative that it's food as for us
Speaker 1: by us, But you said, like, look, it's by us,
Speaker 1: but we're for people who champion us. I don't want
Speaker 1: to put not to put words emouth that was a paraphrase.
Speaker 1: Is it okay to be to amplify the food for
Speaker 1: us but also by us?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well yeah, let's be clear. It's by us for sure.
Speaker 3: We're coming from the culture.
Speaker 2: And it is for us too, and I want to
Speaker 2: make sure that that doesn't get confused. We are building
Speaker 2: with black communities, queer communities in mind, like the problem
Speaker 2: sets that are specifically a cute to us. We want
Speaker 2: you to be able to come to a platform where
Speaker 2: you know you don't have to code switch, you can
Speaker 2: scroll past a bunch of amazing content without having to
Speaker 2: worry about racist popping in your troll in your comment, right,
Speaker 2: are dealing with those types of trolls. We want you
Speaker 2: again to be credited, celebrated and rewarded, you know, for
Speaker 2: the contributions that you make to the platform. So I
Speaker 2: want to make that abundantly clear. Definitely is for us.
Speaker 2: But I think the idea that you know, there's other communities,
Speaker 2: especially marginalized groups, right, And one of my experiences at Twitter,
Speaker 2: you know, it's very active when the Asian hate Stop.
Speaker 2: Asian hate movement really started rising post COVID right where
Speaker 2: we saw some of the most heinous actions against this
Speaker 2: community and it was really really nasty online. And when
Speaker 2: we think about the technology we're building, the Large Language
Speaker 2: Model AI that is really tuned to be like a
Speaker 2: culturally literate content moderation. But you know, it like can
Speaker 2: it can understand the context of not just what's being said,
Speaker 2: but who's saying it.
Speaker 3: You know, you're on the platform.
Speaker 2: You know, when you join the platform, you actually many
Speaker 2: people share their ethnic.
Speaker 3: Backgrounds, and that helps us build a safer environment because
Speaker 3: we know who's saying what.
Speaker 2: We should be able to apply that to any communities
Speaker 2: that aren't feeling safe, the able community, other things like that.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's a really important use case
Speaker 2: for us long term that everybody should understand. But that
Speaker 2: doesn't in any way take away from our mission as
Speaker 2: a platform and our identity as a platform and our brand,
Speaker 2: which is we're going to be at AFRO Tech or
Speaker 2: we at AFRO Future, We're going to be since you know,
Speaker 2: like this is very much us, but we can also
Speaker 2: you know, I think this is a question I've asked
Speaker 2: and we've talked about as a team a lot is okay,
Speaker 2: when we build something we as in black folks, we
Speaker 2: as in queer folks, the groups that have historically been marginalized,
Speaker 2: especially in tech. Can we build it in a way
Speaker 2: that doesn't replicate the harms of other platforms prior to us?
Speaker 3: And is that something that other people can benefit from.
Speaker 2: And therefore our creators could benefit from those audiences too, right,
Speaker 2: Like we have to think expansively. And then I say
Speaker 2: the last thing and I can Sorry, I'm a preacher.
Speaker 2: Preacher's sons are going and all you got to cover
Speaker 2: off your butt. No, But I think when you think
Speaker 2: about outside the United States, right, black folks are diasporic, right,
Speaker 2: the black experience is really really very there's no one
Speaker 2: monolithic way you know, to sort of to be black,
Speaker 2: you know, like whether it's in South Africa or in
Speaker 2: Brazil or you know, in Europe. And that's a varied
Speaker 2: experience that we also really want to be home to
Speaker 2: and welcoming to because that that's something that's needed. And
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, what we're
Speaker 2: talking about is really you know, bringing community back to
Speaker 2: social in all the best ways where it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I get to meet people that are like dope and interesting.
Speaker 2: And you know, Will Lucas is on here and I
Speaker 2: had a little exchange with him, and oh, you know,
Speaker 2: we're at the Afro Tech. I found out about the
Speaker 2: Afro Tech Happy Hour in Atlanta, you know through specially
Speaker 2: go do that. Like, we want to build a global
Speaker 2: diasporic community, and it behooves us to be open minded
Speaker 2: and welcoming and have big tent thinking. And we need
Speaker 2: to trust that that's not going to, you know, disrupt
Speaker 2: our mission at all.
Speaker 3: Trust me when I say that our mission will never change.
Speaker 1: There are on every almost every social media app a
Speaker 1: play for creators.
Speaker 3: To be on those platforms.
Speaker 1: When you think about Twitter's doing what X is doing
Speaker 1: it now, Facebook is making plays, Instagram subset of Facebook
Speaker 1: is making plays. Other new entrants like you know Entrance,
Speaker 1: like fan Base are making plays for creators. When you
Speaker 1: are introduced to creators, what is the selling point you
Speaker 1: said you need to be on spill? What is the
Speaker 1: biggest selling point you have that says Okay, this works
Speaker 1: most of the time versus the other arguments or cases
Speaker 1: we can present.
Speaker 5: You know, this aint no flex here I'm just gonna
Speaker 5: call it like it is. You know, we have been
Speaker 5: incredibly blessed. We have a team that is that has
Speaker 5: roots in this work for a long time. And so
Speaker 5: you know, as we have you know, put ourselves out
Speaker 5: there and and you know, been public about you know,
Speaker 5: who is on our team, we have found you know,
Speaker 5: one that the receipts don't lie. Right. Fons has been
Speaker 5: doing this work. The virus has been doing this work.
Speaker 5: I've been doing this work. Are our engineers, We've been
Speaker 5: doing this work. So we're grateful that Bill is really
Speaker 5: the nexus of a lot of our lifelong bodies of work.
Speaker 4: For one.
Speaker 5: Two, you know, we're seeking, like Fons said, imagining a
Speaker 5: world in which we center the needs of those who
Speaker 5: put the most heat out in the social space but
Speaker 5: unfortunately received the most hate. We're speaking directly to these communities, right,
Speaker 5: And these are shared experiences. This is not observations from
Speaker 5: outside of the window. We are of the communities that
Speaker 5: we are seeking to center in this base. Two, you know,
Speaker 5: and three, we've got global vision here, right, This is
Speaker 5: so much larger.
Speaker 4: Black culture influences the world.
Speaker 5: Right, and you know, there's so much intersectionality in our experiences,
Speaker 5: and so from Jump we have acknowledged that intersectionality. We've
Speaker 5: acknowledged the diaspord reach of where we're trying to get to,
Speaker 5: and in having these conversations with creators, it's like, listen,
Speaker 5: we want to listen to y'all.
Speaker 4: You know. One of the biggest lessons that.
Speaker 5: I've enjoyed in this stage and launching Spill is that
Speaker 5: our communities oftentimes do not get access to beta tech products, right,
Speaker 5: so we don't even necessarily have that lived experience yet
Speaker 5: of what it means to have access to a VC
Speaker 5: funded you know, next best thing social media platform that
Speaker 5: really has the potential to go out here and do
Speaker 5: exactly what it says it does. And so part of
Speaker 5: that has also been that engagement and the creators that
Speaker 5: have flocked to us by the thousands, we are so
Speaker 5: grateful for have done so organically and have done so
Speaker 5: out of curiosity, and what has kept them here is
Speaker 5: a very personal relationship we have have developed.
Speaker 4: I've been developing with my creator community with this.
Speaker 5: You know, we believe that we sent to these folks
Speaker 5: we can have a world where everybody is healthier, right,
Speaker 5: And it's essentially from a policy perspective, the same type
Speaker 5: of attempts we see in rhetoric around around in a
Speaker 5: lot of other spaces, sent to the people who are
Speaker 5: in the most the most needed, who have you know,
Speaker 5: the most harms exposed, solve for those problems and then
Speaker 5: it's a healthier ecosystem for everybody. Second thing I'll say
Speaker 5: with that, that that that folks have really been identifying
Speaker 5: is you know, it is a purely domestic narrative, right
Speaker 5: that uh, you know, being of marginalized communities. Right, if
Speaker 5: we look at the global majority, black and brown folks
Speaker 5: are the global majority. So when we're talking about connecting
Speaker 5: with folks not just domestically but across you know, across
Speaker 5: the waters in other countries, we're also seeing a lot
Speaker 5: of resonance with creators who are in Africa, creators you know,
Speaker 5: who are doing the dang thing out there, and they're saying, listen.
Speaker 4: We're a global majority.
Speaker 5: You know, in twenty thirty America is going to be
Speaker 5: much browner, and we want to be able to link
Speaker 5: arms with people who understand and are ready to throw
Speaker 5: down on that cultural capital and really put on and
Speaker 5: so that's what we're excited to do. We're building a
Speaker 5: coalition of creators and people who are like minded, who
Speaker 5: really want to impact this space with us, and we're
Speaker 5: so grateful.
Speaker 3: To do so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the conversation about you know,
Speaker 1: we historically don't have beta access to so many of
Speaker 1: these new opportunities, and I want to bring us something
Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting from Android users. A lot
Speaker 1: of folks people, a lot of folks talked about on
Speaker 1: X what was Twitter at the time. You know, hey,
Speaker 1: how come there is no Android app I can go?
Speaker 1: Why don't even enjoy you? But why why iPhone only first?
Speaker 1: Which I think is Okay?
Speaker 5: Listen, you say this, and I and I love answering
Speaker 5: this question. First, you say this, you know, UH, our
Speaker 5: choice to build UH and and developed you know for
Speaker 5: for iPhone first came purely from you know, our team's
Speaker 5: internal decisions. What was of access to us UH, the
Speaker 5: way in which we wanted to build.
Speaker 4: And fashion this product.
Speaker 5: It has really nothing to do with exclusivity or shade, no.
Speaker 4: Shade in that regard. But the truth is, and and
Speaker 4: why I really.
Speaker 5: Appreciate this question, will it is because you know, for
Speaker 5: every person that we welcome on the app, you know,
Speaker 5: the same way that we build. We started with the
Speaker 5: build for iPhone to kind of test and see how
Speaker 5: it was going to go and integrate and how it
Speaker 5: was going to work.
Speaker 4: Is the same.
Speaker 5: Also reason why we have to use invite codes, right,
Speaker 5: And a lot of people think, oh, invite codes are
Speaker 5: for exclusivity, and you guys are trying to build the hype, like, actually,
Speaker 5: y'all invite codes or to make sure that our servers
Speaker 5: can continue to run twenty four to seven, right, every
Speaker 5: single person who is on the platform. That costs money
Speaker 5: and time. And I know y'all see the headlines and
Speaker 5: we did really well in preced and we're in another
Speaker 5: funding round right now, but we got to make sure
Speaker 5: that the lights stay on for everybody. We got to
Speaker 5: make sure that this app continues to go. And shout
Speaker 5: out to our phenomenal engineering team because we have yet
Speaker 5: to have a major problem with the app, as we
Speaker 5: have welcomed hundreds of thousands of people in the past month,
Speaker 5: so we're really we're really grateful for that. So that's
Speaker 5: important for our communities to know. You know, this is
Speaker 5: not about exclusivity. This is about making sure that we
Speaker 5: are building for the future. We're here for the long haul,
Speaker 5: and we, you know, want to make sure that the
Speaker 5: tech supports that.
Speaker 1: And so finds Elon takes over. You lose your job
Speaker 1: and you say, you know what, I'm really about it,
Speaker 1: you know, like, this is my community. We are this
Speaker 1: what makes this successful. I'm a part of the mindset
Speaker 1: that you know. I'm over personally over asking for seats
Speaker 1: at the table. I believe we can build our own tables.
Speaker 1: And I understand there's an argument to we made like
Speaker 1: we should be pressuring them to hire I get that.
Speaker 1: It's just not. My fight is like we need to
Speaker 1: see that we can do this too on our own.
Speaker 1: What gave you that courage to say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to just go look for another gig.
Speaker 1: I'm going to start this. I'm want to start my idea,
Speaker 1: put my offering into the world.
Speaker 3: It was us.
Speaker 2: It was experiences such as going to Afrotech for the
Speaker 2: past several years and connecting with folks. You know, my
Speaker 2: co founder of ours and I met each other about
Speaker 2: four years prior to about four years ago, same day
Speaker 2: we started at Twitter at the same day at the
Speaker 2: same time.
Speaker 3: And have been talking for years about these issues. You
Speaker 3: know these challenges, and I.
Speaker 2: Think many people in the Afro tech community, we all
Speaker 2: feel the same way.
Speaker 3: At a major tech platform and you're black.
Speaker 2: And you're in the ergs and we're all looking at
Speaker 2: each other and we're like, man, we got to go
Speaker 2: do something. So I know that this is something that
Speaker 2: is in particularly original in terms of a feeling.
Speaker 3: But I'll tell you two truths that happened to me the.
Speaker 2: Night that the layoffs happened. First was I got incredibly clear.
Speaker 2: I was incredibly focused.
Speaker 3: It was just.
Speaker 2: Something that I can't really explain, but I was just determined.
Speaker 2: You know, I knew it in my heart. It was
Speaker 2: just like, there's no going back. We're going to do this.
Speaker 2: If I got to, you know, liquidate the four oh
Speaker 2: one k or do whatever it takes, We're going to
Speaker 2: do this. And that level of conviction, I think, you know,
Speaker 2: really set the tone for everything that's happened since. But
Speaker 2: as I mentioned before, the conviction came from two experiences
Speaker 2: sort of feelings at that time, which was one, nobody
Speaker 2: knows this better than us, and two, you just have
Speaker 2: to have the audacity, the guts, that's literal. Really the
Speaker 2: difference between us and most of those folks that we
Speaker 2: look up to. It's just being like, grab your jones
Speaker 2: and get out there and do it. And it's amazing
Speaker 2: to see what has happened in the time since then.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's crazy to have this conversation that
Speaker 2: in less than a year we've gone from there. I've
Speaker 2: gone from fire to funded to the number one social
Speaker 2: app in the App Store in less than eight months.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, you know, And I got to ask you
Speaker 1: this also finds like, you know, the timing of notable
Speaker 1: social media apps has them dropping, has you know, created
Speaker 1: an even more challenging task to build a social media
Speaker 1: It's going to be challenging regardless, but that just makes
Speaker 1: it even harder when very well funded and you know,
Speaker 1: previously successful entrance get into the space. What do you
Speaker 1: lean into when you own the road to building something
Speaker 1: and a powerful rival sets their sites on that same territory.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a couple of things.
Speaker 2: First, this has been happening since the beginning of this journey, right,
Speaker 2: there's been all kinds.
Speaker 3: Of you know, innovation, and I actually think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I think we haven't really seen a true innovation and
Speaker 2: social in about a decade. You know, we've had a
Speaker 2: couple of you know, new kind of you know, gimmicky
Speaker 2: things here or there, but there's you know, like a
Speaker 2: truly a new wave of how do you think about
Speaker 2: social and community and you know, business models and all
Speaker 2: of that we haven't seen really since since the last
Speaker 2: you know, year or so, and so I think that's
Speaker 2: really exciting.
Speaker 3: And I don't look at that at all as a negative.
Speaker 3: I think it.
Speaker 2: Creates a lot of conversation and actually gets you know,
Speaker 2: opens a lot of doors for a lot of people
Speaker 2: to be like, hey, did you hear about this?
Speaker 3: So you're talking about that? Okay, you know, let's talk
Speaker 3: about this and maybe check it out.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, it is so obviously clear
Speaker 2: and again, you know, you're on the platform, and as
Speaker 2: Kenya mentioned to everyone, and we can't wait to welcome
Speaker 2: many more folks onto it in the coming months as
Speaker 2: we move through our beta process. But you'll see the
Speaker 2: minute you get on Spill it's different. I mean it's
Speaker 2: as different as walking around Times Square versus Brooklyn, you know,
Speaker 2: like you can just feel a difference automatically. It's different conversations,
Speaker 2: different content, the way the platform is designed, it's colorful,
Speaker 2: there's motion, Our brand is you know.
Speaker 3: The language to lexicon.
Speaker 2: The name Spill obviously comes from the black Wood community, right, like,
Speaker 2: this is different.
Speaker 3: We haven't really seen.
Speaker 2: Something like this at this level, I think in a while.
Speaker 2: So I'm really animated and grounded in our purpose and
Speaker 2: our mission and know that the problems that we're looking
Speaker 2: to solve are fundamentally different.
Speaker 3: Than I think any other players in the space.
Speaker 5: Put me to tackle them, and the differentiators are proven,
Speaker 5: that thesis has proven in you know, the the fact
Speaker 5: that we get from our community in real time right
Speaker 5: data is testing. So people are telling us how they're
Speaker 5: feeling every single time we open up the app on
Speaker 5: a daily basis, And what warms my heart so much
Speaker 5: as we see people saying, hey, I just told my
Speaker 5: therapist about Spill, right, I'm feeling better about being on
Speaker 5: social media. I didn't even notice y'all, But y'all have
Speaker 5: my phone battery dying on a daily basis. I have
Speaker 5: to carry around a portable charger around my house. But
Speaker 5: it's because people are finding not just finding community, but
Speaker 5: creating brand new communities around shared experiences amongst themselves and
Speaker 5: so much about the product design lends itself to feeling
Speaker 5: like a healthier, happier, more vibrant ecosystem that they want
Speaker 5: to be a part of and continue to develop.
Speaker 4: You know, we've got the who's who of culture.
Speaker 5: On the platform, you know, celebs and music legends, and
Speaker 5: you're getting to see conversations between people that you may
Speaker 5: now they've even knew knew each other, and perhaps they
Speaker 5: didn't know each other before spill talking about what's more influential,
Speaker 5: you know, album covers or album titles, right, you know,
Speaker 5: And we're also seeing folks who have a love for
Speaker 5: UX and UI design who perhaps have never had the
Speaker 5: opportunity to work in a field like that, give their
Speaker 5: two cents and three cents about you know what they
Speaker 5: think about this as well, and again receive a call
Speaker 5: and response from our team too about thank you so
Speaker 5: much for that idea and we appreciate that. And then
Speaker 5: the next build they get to see their uplate update,
Speaker 5: their their idea updated and implemented, and so it is
Speaker 5: just it's just such an awesome experience. Nothing like it
Speaker 5: exists on social media, and we know that those differentiating
Speaker 5: factors are what keep people coming back. But also what's
Speaker 5: going to have us continue to receive more success like
Speaker 5: this in the future.
Speaker 1: And so this one is more of a startup building
Speaker 1: question and fundraising question when you go to build a
Speaker 1: startup how because I asked Marlon Nichols this question on
Speaker 1: the episode that's not a drop yet, but by the
Speaker 1: time this comes out, that will have dropped. And I
Speaker 1: asked him, how do you know as a founder how
Speaker 1: much to raise? And since you're in such a tumultuous
Speaker 1: vertical social media how much of the thinking of we
Speaker 1: need a war chest, not just engineers, not just you know,
Speaker 1: talent and et cetera, but we also need a war chest.
Speaker 1: How much of that goes into the calculation on this
Speaker 1: is the number we're gonna raise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can. I can chime in here.
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, shout out to Marlin, I'm
Speaker 2: one of our lead funders in Spill, and shout out
Speaker 2: to the entire Magneture Capital team and Charles King.
Speaker 3: And everyone over there.
Speaker 2: We really had a I had a learning curve in
Speaker 2: this cycle as well, because this is my first venture
Speaker 2: back startup, and I was lucky enough to have a
Speaker 2: co founder like Thevirs, who has been through these cycles
Speaker 2: a couple of times, and when we look at the fundraising,
Speaker 2: you know, you're you're definitely.
Speaker 3: Going in there like, Okay, what do I need right now?
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna get to this.
Speaker 2: It always takes longer, and it always costs way more
Speaker 2: than you think it's going to take. And sometimes that's
Speaker 2: really hard, especially for black founders, where I think we
Speaker 2: raise two percent of overall venture capital in this country
Speaker 2: goes to black founders, and then for black women's even
Speaker 2: a fraction of that. So it's often hard for us
Speaker 2: to say, hey, yeah, we want to raise more as
Speaker 2: if we, you know, can dictate the terms, the business
Speaker 2: has to justify it, of course, but I think ultimately
Speaker 2: when you have and this is a great message to
Speaker 2: the VC community and especially for all founders out there,
Speaker 2: you have to think, not just to your point what
Speaker 2: do I need now, but let's plan for success and
Speaker 2: really challenge venture capital to invest in black founders, especially
Speaker 2: with the vision of success right this is you know,
Speaker 2: we need a couple of cycles maybe, and sometimes we
Speaker 2: don't always get that as black founders, and even you know,
Speaker 2: black funds are black lead funds sometimes have the same
Speaker 2: sort of you know, challenges and restrictions, and so it
Speaker 2: is a mind shift for us to really go in
Speaker 2: there not thinking Okay, I can I can get to
Speaker 2: this bar just just eke it out, you know, But no, actually,
Speaker 2: let's plan for success. Our vision is to create the
Speaker 2: first multi billion dollar valued social platform that's been black
Speaker 2: owned and black operated that we've ever seen before. What
Speaker 2: does that actually take? How do we work backwards from
Speaker 2: that vision and ensure that we have everything we need
Speaker 2: to give us the greatest chance to get there. And
Speaker 2: credit to Marlon and our backers who have been really
Speaker 2: really fantastic and being like, you're going to need more
Speaker 2: and it's going to take more time.
Speaker 3: So plan for that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you go to investors who are very smart,
Speaker 1: very reputable on the leaders in their category, mac Freinsure Capital,
Speaker 1: KP or Capital, you know, roughly a year and a half,
Speaker 1: two years ago, like, what is it that you sell
Speaker 1: them one? Because the idea is one thing. What is
Speaker 1: it that you sell them on that says, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to write them in check? What do you
Speaker 1: think you bring to that meaning that gets you that
Speaker 1: level of confidence?
Speaker 2: As ken you mentioned, not to not to be that,
Speaker 2: but we can inflect a little bit. There's nobody better
Speaker 2: in the social media marketing space in the world than
Speaker 2: me and the teams that I've been able to lead
Speaker 2: over the past i'd say five years.
Speaker 3: And that's not just my opinion.
Speaker 2: I won best Overall Social for my team at HBO
Speaker 2: and then two years later or Twitter, we do this
Speaker 2: and we do this well. So understanding and owning our space, right,
Speaker 2: it's really the founding team, right, Like, we know what
Speaker 2: we're doing. Between Devirus and EI, there's nothing that we
Speaker 2: haven't seen in the social space from a bill side
Speaker 2: or from a community and content side. So that's number one,
Speaker 2: and I think that that's what resonated. I think number two,
Speaker 2: we are tackling a really challenge problem that's really pervasive
Speaker 2: and really really easy to understand. Hate online has been
Speaker 2: a problem for a long time, right, hate towards black
Speaker 2: communities and especially you know, creators not going to commentate
Speaker 2: all of that. It's been a problem for a long time.
Speaker 2: A lot of people have, you know, taken attempts to
Speaker 2: solve this problem, and so I think that's meaningful too.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a little scary to be like, we're going
Speaker 2: to tackle this monster, you know, but that actually gets
Speaker 2: you know, funds excited because it's like, if they can
Speaker 2: solve this, that's your mode, right, Like they've come through
Speaker 2: and you know, as we're cracking our large language model
Speaker 2: technology and we were focused on this before chat, GBT,
Speaker 2: blew up and everything else. This is something that really
Speaker 2: is a game changer. It's you know, no bs and
Speaker 2: so that was the second thing that I think got
Speaker 2: people excited, and then I'd say, yeah, the third thing
Speaker 2: is just passion, right, Like this wasn't a side project,
Speaker 2: This wasn't something that I was, you know, oh, let's
Speaker 2: see what happens. It's like, no, I'm betting my life
Speaker 2: on it. And people can feel that and whatever comes,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in this and the team you know,
Speaker 2: Kenya and Varus and shout out to everybody on Team
Speaker 2: Spill who's been grinding literally seven days a week for
Speaker 2: the past eight months, like no breaks. Not that we're
Speaker 2: trying to build that as the company and culture, but
Speaker 2: it's just from passion, right, I think that goes a
Speaker 2: long way. People can feel that.
Speaker 3: In the run.
Speaker 1: You know, Kenya, there is historically even with newspapers, you know,
Speaker 1: there's this quote that if it bleeds it leads. And
Speaker 1: there's a reason why hate is pervasive on historical you
Speaker 1: know apps we've been using for a long time. And
Speaker 1: I wonder, because if hate didn't make you know, the
Speaker 1: register ring, people would stop it from happening.
Speaker 3: But it works.
Speaker 1: That's why you have trending topics because people want to
Speaker 1: know who just got shot, you know, people want to
Speaker 1: know who just slapped somebody at the oscar like people
Speaker 1: want to know those kinds of things. And so I
Speaker 1: wonder what is your take on is does things that
Speaker 1: amplify positivity? Do those things work when we we can
Speaker 1: be our own worst enemy as communities.
Speaker 5: You know, well, I'm going to share something with you
Speaker 5: that I haven't I haven't shared with.
Speaker 4: Anybody else yet. This is this is this is this
Speaker 4: is specific that we related to this one of the
Speaker 4: we are.
Speaker 5: We are super clear that hate has existed well long
Speaker 5: before us, and unfortunately, you know, it will probably exist
Speaker 5: long after us. But what we are doing with our
Speaker 5: build is making sure that hate doesn't live on spill
Speaker 5: right for an extended amount of time. And so you know,
Speaker 5: we're adding protections here. We're not silly enough to think that, uh,
Speaker 5: you know, we can prevent people from acting out and
Speaker 5: doing the things, especially since there's a lot of courage
Speaker 5: that happens when you're behind screen and people behave in
Speaker 5: ways differently than they would in everyday life. Right. But
Speaker 5: with the bravery, with the courage, with the very clarity
Speaker 5: that we have with our community guidelines and our terms
Speaker 5: of service, we are making it extra clear with what
Speaker 5: we stand for and what we don't. Our moderation teams
Speaker 5: are very active. We've got you know, human lines of defense,
Speaker 5: We've got you know, culturally competent AI lines of defense,
Speaker 5: and so you know, we're seeing that because of all
Speaker 5: of that, an amazing thing that's happening is the community
Speaker 5: is starting to speak up for itself and be very
Speaker 5: clear about what they want and what they don't want.
Speaker 5: Right and it's not even on some just hate stuff.
Speaker 5: It's like, come correct, you know, you'll see spills in
Speaker 5: the Spill of verse. This is the house that my
Speaker 5: friends may take your shoes off, right, Like, that is
Speaker 5: the sentiment that is the energy when you come on
Speaker 5: to Spill.
Speaker 4: You know, we want.
Speaker 5: Brands to feel excited to come into the space, and
Speaker 5: we have honest conversations with our partners, just like a cookout.
Speaker 5: Don't come to the cookout before the food's ready, right
Speaker 5: and ask for a plate. You better bring something, you
Speaker 5: better offer something, right. And so there is this amazing
Speaker 5: culture that is brewing and developing on Spill where the
Speaker 5: community is starting to be clear about what it is
Speaker 5: that they want and what they don't and in funny ways,
Speaker 5: that old behavior, that hateful behavior, is being branded as
Speaker 5: what was permitted on some of those other apps. And
Speaker 5: so you'll literally also see as you scroll through the timeline,
Speaker 5: like don't bring none of that stuff over here.
Speaker 4: This is new fresh air over here. We got a
Speaker 4: new age back in the still verse, right, like we
Speaker 4: want some new air.
Speaker 5: So, you know, I'm really grateful, I'm really really grateful
Speaker 5: to see that happenings.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 5: That is just proof of the thesis that is the
Speaker 5: community taking you know, the principles and the policies that
Speaker 5: we are putting in place, and they're adopting it as
Speaker 5: their own and they're saying, yes, we like this and
Speaker 5: we want this, and we're gonna take it even a
Speaker 5: step further, which is what should happen, right hack this
Speaker 5: you know, with us, you know, this is what we
Speaker 5: think and we intent and and you know, tell us
Speaker 5: how it works and how it doesn't and the things
Speaker 5: that work run with it, and we're gonna build with y'all.
Speaker 5: And and they've said that they want spill to be
Speaker 5: a positive place full of beautiful affirmation. You know, you
Speaker 5: can click on you know, certain hashtags like art spill
Speaker 5: and go on a virtual date with your spill bay
Speaker 5: and all kinds of fun things that happen, right, And
Speaker 5: that's the type of positivity that.
Speaker 1: We're find finds. I want to leave this last one
Speaker 1: with you, and I want you to talk about because
Speaker 1: we mentioned the courage it takes to build your own table,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of us who are out here
Speaker 1: who were in the position or are in the position
Speaker 1: that you are in where you believe in something so passionately,
Speaker 1: this one being community, not just a technology, but a
Speaker 1: community that deserves a platform that recognizes its its importance
Speaker 1: and its value to the world. And so when you
Speaker 1: see found who are who you were two years ago? Well,
Speaker 1: knowing what you know now, what would you say to
Speaker 1: the fines two years ago?
Speaker 3: Great question? A couple of things. I would say, First,
Speaker 3: you are more right than you even know. You are
Speaker 3: more right than you even.
Speaker 2: Know, and if you're feeling it in your gut, trust
Speaker 2: that there is many many other people who are probably
Speaker 2: feeling the same way. So that's number one. I'd say
Speaker 2: number two, there's a wave happening. There's a wave of
Speaker 2: black entrepreneurship that is exciting and beautiful. And I know
Speaker 2: we're in the fiftieth anniversary of hip hop mode right now,
Speaker 2: so it actually reminds me of you.
Speaker 3: Know, hip hop labels in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 2: You know what Russell and Puff and Jay and Dame
Speaker 2: and all those folks did, where it was like, let's
Speaker 2: go from being you know, not just the performers right,
Speaker 2: not just the products ourselves, but we actually make it right,
Speaker 2: we actually platform it.
Speaker 3: And that this wave is happening.
Speaker 2: I've met so many other incredible you know founders during
Speaker 2: this journey.
Speaker 3: Already and want to work with everyone and shout out.
Speaker 2: Again to the afrotech community because you guys have really
Speaker 2: built you know, an amazing platform for black folks in
Speaker 2: tec to come together and that that wave is happening
Speaker 2: and this is just the latest, the next big you
Speaker 2: know shift in in that. So I would say you're
Speaker 2: you're not alone because there's a whole bunch of other
Speaker 2: folks coming along this journey too, and we got to
Speaker 2: talk to each other, We got to share information, we
Speaker 2: got to you know, connect, and you know, put each
Speaker 2: other on game and put each other on real spill
Speaker 2: so that we can all benefit from this journey, because
Speaker 2: that's how we win, We win collectively. And so I
Speaker 2: would say those are the two big things. One trust
Speaker 2: your gut. You are more right than you know.
Speaker 3: And number two, there's a wave happening, and jump on,
Speaker 3: let's go.
Speaker 2: If you're thinking about it, go do it. Come holler
Speaker 2: at us, poporn the spill. We're gonna help it apply
Speaker 2: you even elevent you.
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro
Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in night Heart Media,
Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,
Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Rose McLucas.
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Serrano or Maya Moldrew.
Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other tech distructors an
Speaker 1: innovators at afrotech dot com enjoying Black Tech Green Money.
Speaker 1: Shi it is somebody, go get your money. Peace and
Speaker 1: love