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Speaker 1: Well, joining me now is the president of the US

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Speaker 1: Conference of Mayors. And if you're wondering what is that, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you here in a minute. Like every industry group,

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Speaker 1: there are different types of associations, and the mayors, in

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Speaker 1: many ways, regardless of party, have very similar challenges when

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Speaker 1: it comes to dealing both with the private sector nationally,

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Speaker 1: but also government on the federal level. David Holt, the

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Speaker 1: mayor of Oklahoma City, somebody I've known for a little bit,

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Speaker 1: is the current president of the US Conference of Marriage.

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Speaker 1: You just got to you're in the I guess halfway

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Speaker 1: point of your term?

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Speaker 2: Is that fair? But six months now? Quite? June third, Johne, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm a quarter down. Yeah? All right. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: how did I do with my explanation of the Conference

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Speaker 2: of Mayors?

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Speaker 1: And how would you describe it for my listeners and viewers?

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Speaker 3: Well, I can certainly embellish it. You did great, But

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Speaker 3: I can add to it. You know, we have almost

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Speaker 3: a century of his Street and all of the you know,

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Speaker 3: many of the mayoral names in American history, the politicos

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Speaker 3: would know, from LaGuardia to Landrew to Daily have all

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Speaker 3: served as president of this organization. And what I would

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Speaker 3: say is two things that make it unique. One, it

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Speaker 3: hasn't a really remarkable track record, Like we've been at

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Speaker 3: the table for some pretty significant things along the way.

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Speaker 3: When we rally the fourteen hundred mayors that we speak for,

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Speaker 3: obviously that's a coast to coast influence, at least historically.

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Speaker 3: And like, for example, when the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill was

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Speaker 3: passed and signed, we were right there, first row on

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Speaker 3: the south lawn of the White House because we absolutely

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Speaker 3: had an impact on that. And in many cases and

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Speaker 3: many times, we were the bipartisan actually in the bipartisan

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Speaker 3: Infrastructure law, which probably leads to the other thing that

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Speaker 3: makes us unique, which is just how bipartisan we are,

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Speaker 3: especially in this political environment. I think we are even

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Speaker 3: more so than other organizations like the NNGA.

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Speaker 2: We are really sticking to it.

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Speaker 3: We are really shoulder to shoulder Republicans and Democrats. And

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Speaker 3: I'm a registered Republican, and I think that we really

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Speaker 3: do a good job of putting aside the things that

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Speaker 3: divide us and finding common purpose.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny, that was going to be

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Speaker 1: my next question, and I'm going to be a little

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Speaker 1: cynical here because you just referenced the NNGA, the National

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Speaker 1: Governors Association, which has completely lost its bipartisan credibility. Right

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Speaker 1: There is no longer the same level of cooperation in

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Speaker 1: the NNGA that was also, I would argue at least

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago the governors when they banned it, the

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Speaker 1: NNGA was actually a pretty influential could be really influential.

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Speaker 1: But the governors have polarized a bit, and they see

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Speaker 1: you could see that they struggle to work. How have

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Speaker 1: you kept the national polarization and the state level polarization

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing across the country. How is it not

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Speaker 1: leaked into the mayors?

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Speaker 3: I have two reasons. I have two explanations for that.

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Speaker 3: I think that mayors are a unique political class. And

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Speaker 3: I think that people have been saying what I'm about

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Speaker 3: to say for a long time. But there's kind of

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Speaker 3: like three major parties in America Republicans, Democrats, and mayors.

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Speaker 3: And I would say there's two reasons for that. One is,

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Speaker 3: we just have to get things done, and governors to

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Speaker 3: some extent do as well, but we really do on

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Speaker 3: an hourly basis, have to get things done. Like people

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Speaker 3: use our services to literally live their lives each day. Right,

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Speaker 3: Like we provide you water, we provide you street. Well,

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Speaker 3: they notice when it doesn't happen. And I'm right now

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Speaker 3: as we speak, I'm we're now a day behind for

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Speaker 3: the third week in a row in my county for

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Speaker 3: picking up our recycling. And it got a new contractor

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Speaker 3: about a month ago, and this isn't going well, and

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Speaker 3: we're all noticing. And I'll tell you I had no

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Speaker 3: idea we changed contractors in our county for the recycling

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Speaker 3: pickup until they stopped picking it up on time.

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Speaker 1: And now we're all aware of that. So it is

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Speaker 1: there's sort of a negative. You only get noticed when

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Speaker 1: something doesn't work too in the mayor level, right.

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Speaker 3: And so if you're recycling was run by national politicians

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Speaker 3: in the current environment, they would be like tweeting back

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Speaker 3: and forth at each other.

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Speaker 2: They were confusing to meet. They would be.

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Speaker 3: Saying, well, that's a Republican company. We can't do business

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Speaker 3: with that. I mean nonsense. Right, So that's the difference

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Speaker 3: on one level. The other difference is, and this is

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Speaker 3: worth its own podcast probably, but for whatever historic reason,

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Speaker 3: mayors are generally elected, not all, but most mayors are

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Speaker 3: generally elected in a top two type format, often nonpartisan.

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Speaker 3: But I think the most important thing is that it's

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Speaker 3: a format where all the voters get to see They

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Speaker 3: get a ballot with all of the candidates, and all

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Speaker 3: of the candidates have to face all the voters. So

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Speaker 3: by being pulled out of the closed primary system that

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Speaker 3: elects most other people, we just have totally different incentive

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Speaker 3: structure and we achieve much better outcomes. We're much more

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Speaker 3: incentivized to build coalitions across party lines in our cities,

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Speaker 3: and most governors are going to be elected through a

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Speaker 3: close parties in primary process. So they're they're falling, They're

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Speaker 3: they're falling into this current part is entrapped. We're kind

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Speaker 3: of protected from a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit, you know, you get right at something I was

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Speaker 1: sort of ranting about a couple of weeks ago, quoting

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Speaker 1: Milton Friedman, who says, it isn't about whether you elect

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Speaker 1: the right people, it's whether there's you know, the wrong

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Speaker 1: people can do the right thing with the right incentives.

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Speaker 1: And the problem we have in our political system right

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Speaker 1: now is our incentives are screwed up. That's true in

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Speaker 1: my industry as well. With media. The incentives are screwed up,

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Speaker 1: and you just gave the best explanation of I'm i'm

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Speaker 1: i am if I'm going to be biased about anything

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Speaker 1: that's on political reform, and we really need to get

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Speaker 1: rid of primaries. Primaries are are are in some ways.

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Speaker 1: Primaries are what washed George Washington was warning about when

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Speaker 1: he was warning against factionalism and how that would lead

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Speaker 1: to it. If we want to minimize that, we've got

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Speaker 1: to do this. And you're just explaining why are mayor's

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Speaker 1: less partisan. I'll give you a great example.

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Speaker 2: Carlos A.

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Speaker 1: Menez who's a member of Congress now from Miami. He

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Speaker 1: was Miami Dade County mayor and it was a non

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Speaker 1: partisan office. When you run as the county mayor, people

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Speaker 1: know you know the two parties. Yeah, the kind of work.

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Speaker 1: You sort of have an idea of who's right a center,

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Speaker 1: who's left a center. But it is interesting as a

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Speaker 1: member of Congress he's been much more of a partisan.

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Speaker 1: I don't say that as a critique. I say that

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Speaker 1: as a fact. It's sort of part of the job.

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Speaker 1: He probably would get voted out if he wasn't voting

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Speaker 1: in a partisan way as mayor. He was not a partisan,

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Speaker 1: and you could and you just got to what's the

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Speaker 1: difference the voter he had to face the county wide

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Speaker 1: voter in Miami Dade County. Well, that's a fifty to

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Speaker 1: fifty county slight lead to the right, very similar to

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 2: Right like slightly to the right.

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Speaker 1: But you can't go too in either direction and you're

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Speaker 1: going to get whipped back. His congressional district is different,

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Speaker 1: and it's a primary that ALECXA, and so he's got

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Speaker 1: to be more focused there. In many ways, you just

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Speaker 1: explain polar why we're so polarized on the federal level,

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Speaker 1: when on the local level, if we were this polarized cities,

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Speaker 1: you know, people wouldn't have garbage picked up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm kind of a zealot on this issue, and

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Speaker 3: people want to talk about guns or abortion or what

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Speaker 3: seems to be intractable problems. I always get back to

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Speaker 3: election reform, which is, you know, like kind of wonkey

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Speaker 3: and like doesn't seem like that's the problem, that's the

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Speaker 3: solution we're looking for, But it is in fact, because

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Speaker 3: that's why you know, these widely held views are not

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Speaker 3: getting translated into policies at other levels besides the city level,

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Speaker 3: because like we're divided and conquered, they're they're held across

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Speaker 3: party lines and people. That's not really how we make

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Speaker 3: decisions and elections in this country. Your your entire incentive

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Speaker 3: structure is to make it out of that first round.

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Speaker 3: And that first round is a subset of the electorate

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Speaker 3: that is not just one party. But you know, I

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Speaker 3: mean they're voting in like in Oklahoma. I mean, our

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Speaker 3: our decisions are all made in the runoffs. I mean

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Speaker 3: they're talking about the people who show up in August

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Speaker 3: to vote.

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Speaker 2: They I mean they've jump up twice.

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Speaker 3: Yes, right, you know, these are the most extreme people imaginable.

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Speaker 3: Their priorities are completely different from the electorate at large.

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Speaker 2: This is this is.

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Speaker 3: The source of all evil in American politics today. And

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm just so proud and glad to be a

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Speaker 3: mayor and I get to I get to practice politics

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Speaker 3: the way I think it was practiced in this country

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Speaker 3: for two centuries.

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Speaker 1: I look, you are you are preaching to you know,

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Speaker 1: I have said this country desperately needs a pastor for patriotism.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a religious person, but I really think we

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Speaker 1: need people to understand sort of you know, the right

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Speaker 1: way democracy should work, and and and and so forth.

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Speaker 1: But I want to go back to the question I

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Speaker 1: was asking, implying at the beginning, the fact that you're

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Speaker 1: you're a bipartisan organization, does that weirdly put you at

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Speaker 1: a disadvantage in Trump's Washington?

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Speaker 3: Oh perhaps, I mean, you know, that's for them to say.

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Speaker 3: I suppose we have I think, especially in this a

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Speaker 3: second Trump term, taken as open minded and non confrontational

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Speaker 3: attitude as we possibly can.

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Speaker 2: And I should say that like that.

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Speaker 3: The Trump tenure started earlier this year under the presidency

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Speaker 3: conference of mayor's presidency of a democratic mayor, and you

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Speaker 3: get there of Columbus, and he set that tone. You know,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't gonna he wasn't going to have this conference

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Speaker 3: be the face of the resistance, right, And so that has.

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Speaker 2: Been our attitude.

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Speaker 3: We want to keep trying to find common ground things

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Speaker 3: we can work together on. Maybe it's housing, maybe it's

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Speaker 3: public safety. Obviously it's you know, I have to, of

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Speaker 3: course be honest. That's been challenging, and it's not necessarily

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Speaker 3: true that we have gotten a lot of engagement going

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Speaker 3: both ways. But you're still trying to stick to that.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, yes, I get it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we have obviously a lot of prominent Democratic

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Speaker 3: mayors in our organization, and even the Republican mayors are

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Speaker 3: pragmatic right and not generally going to be like MAGA people.

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Speaker 2: And so it is what it is.

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Speaker 3: But we're trying to stay open minded because ultimately we

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Speaker 3: want to do what's best for our residents, and working

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Speaker 3: with the administration that is in power is what's best

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Speaker 3: for our residents.

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Speaker 2: No, it is.

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Speaker 1: And you're also getting at something that I think is

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Speaker 1: lost on the federal level right now, which is and

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Speaker 1: frankly at the state level. And it may get to

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Speaker 1: the voting incentive structures you and I were just discussing,

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Speaker 1: which is if a mayor picks and chooses who they

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Speaker 1: govern for, meaning well, I'm going to pick up the

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Speaker 1: trash and the nameighborhood that supported me the most, but

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be I'm going to you know, take

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Speaker 1: my time. You know, I remember my mother telling me

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Speaker 1: stories of the Chicago Daily, the original Daily machine, and

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Speaker 1: her grandfather telling her, well, you know, they keep track

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Speaker 1: of who votes for who and what precincts, so you know,

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Speaker 1: or you won't get certain services, and that is what

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Speaker 1: they believed. I don't know if that was the case,

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Speaker 1: but that's what they believed in Chicago in the fifties

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Speaker 1: in sixties, right, And you're like, boy, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: I buy that though. Machine politics certainly worked a certain way.

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Speaker 1: But these days mayors have to govern for an entire city.

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Speaker 1: If you neglect one part, everybody will be angry at you. Right,

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Speaker 1: there is that sense of there is not you know,

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Speaker 1: there seems to be a comfort now in only governing

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Speaker 1: for your supporters on the federal or state level. Is

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Speaker 1: that all attributable just simply how people get elected?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I mean you could try to

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Speaker 3: buck that system, I guess, but certainly that's what the

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Speaker 3: incentives are in place for here in Oklahoma City because

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Speaker 3: of our system. It's like from the very moment I

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Speaker 3: announced I was running eight years ago, I embraced democratic

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Speaker 3: and independent support, even though I had been a Republican

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Speaker 3: state senator. And I've maintained that coalition and when we

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Speaker 3: when we run initiatives, I've run at least I guess,

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Speaker 3: three tax votes since I took office.

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Speaker 2: You know, all of it. You have to take all

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Speaker 2: those votes to your voters when you want to raise

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Speaker 2: any sort of tax.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, And and you know we've we've topped sixty

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Speaker 3: five percent in all three And to put that into

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Speaker 3: some perspective, Oklahoma City is really a demographic and political

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Speaker 3: microcosm of the country. Trump won this county forty nine, eight,

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Speaker 3: twenty and twenty twenty four the exact same.

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Speaker 1: National that's the national basic believe the national split in

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Speaker 1: twenty four.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you looked at the demographics, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's it's fifteen percent African American, twenty percent Hispanic.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so on and so on.

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Speaker 3: So I think we prove now that nonetheless, in these

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Speaker 3: outcomes where we're getting sixty five percent and I got

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Speaker 3: seventy eight and sixty percent in my two elections, that

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Speaker 3: we can all find a way to work together the

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Speaker 3: seventy percent of people in the middle. You can't get

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent, but you kind of have to at

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Speaker 3: some level sort of just move on from the people

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Speaker 3: at the extremes. But but you can find outcomes, and

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Speaker 3: that's that's what we're incentivized to do. I suppose somebody

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Speaker 3: could run for mayor and do a different you know,

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Speaker 3: try a different approach. But to me, it's like that's

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Speaker 3: what I wanted to do. I'm incentivized to do it.

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Speaker 3: It seems morally right. It's more fun this way, all

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Speaker 3: of the things aligned. I think you could if you

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Speaker 3: were in national politics, you could try and you could

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Speaker 3: try to be a leader, and you could try to

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Speaker 3: set an example. I mean, there is the danger you're

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Speaker 3: gonna get punished and your part isan primary though for

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Speaker 3: for trying to be that person that's bringing people together.

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Speaker 3: I mean it used to be you and I are

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Speaker 3: both build enough to remember we see and the general

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Speaker 3: election used to say they can work across the aisle,

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Speaker 3: and like that would be the last thing you would

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Speaker 3: now advertise in a campaign, right, You get punished for that.

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Speaker 3: So anyways, I don't know if there really is a

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Speaker 3: possibility for national and state leaders to do that until

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Speaker 3: there is an election reform that gives them the incentives

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Speaker 3: and the rewards for that.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about a couple of challenges that I think

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Speaker 1: are across cities. I say this because I just sat

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Speaker 1: down for about an hour and a half hour with

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Speaker 1: Muriel Bowser, Mayor of DC, and you know she's handled

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Speaker 1: the situation with Trump, I would say, the way you

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Speaker 1: just described how the Conference of Mayors wants to be,

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Speaker 1: we're not. She's not going to be the resistance. She

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Speaker 1: did that the first term. That was one instance, and

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Speaker 1: she said to me, look, there was a Democratic House

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Speaker 1: that had her back. You know, she's in a more

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Speaker 1: unique situation with her funding and all of that too.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk about law and order issues,

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Speaker 1: one thing she emphasized, right, and she's taken a different tone.

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Speaker 1: For instance, in the mayor of Chicago, she's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I could use the extra resources. Now, will you let

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Speaker 1: me decide where I want those resources?

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Speaker 4: You?

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Speaker 1: I don't want you to tell me where you think

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Speaker 1: I need those resources. Right, there's that and that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a push pull that you'd have in any relationship.

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Speaker 1: But she's still having a hard time hiring cops. Are

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Speaker 1: you finding the same thing. I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: cities that there's just you know, the help. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of vacancies for more cops. The budget is there

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Speaker 1: to hire more cops, there's just not enough people applying.

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Speaker 1: Are you having that same problem?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are, and you're right, we have the money

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Speaker 3: and it's not an issue of money like it might

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Speaker 3: have been in the past, at least for us.

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Speaker 2: I can't see that as universal cities.

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Speaker 3: But we have the resources and we just have trouble

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Speaker 3: filling the position.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, this is an Alklahoma city, Like there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been some thesis, well people don't want to do

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Speaker 1: it in Washington, DC because the city council has been

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Speaker 1: hostile towards police officers. Yeah, the fact that this is

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Speaker 1: across the country, this is bigger than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: I think we need to be I think it is

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Speaker 3: important that we that we use supportive rhetoric. That doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean you have to find the right balance, right, but

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Speaker 3: you certainly should lift up the profession as one of

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Speaker 3: noble public service. But I think you're right, it seems

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Speaker 3: like the problem goes beyond that that that's not the

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Speaker 3: only solution. So to the bigger issue, yes, I mean,

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Speaker 3: like we need people, so we're not averse to federal support.

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Speaker 3: But to your point, and to Mayor Bowser's point, like

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Speaker 3: just parachuting the men with no coordination or supervision or

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Speaker 3: training is not really going to do anything at least

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Speaker 3: certainly not in the long term. And actually most crime

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Speaker 3: is not, at least in communities like mine. It's not

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Speaker 3: being committed out on the street corner in public, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like a crime is a much more nuanced

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Speaker 3: and complicated subject. And it's why we have also employed

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Speaker 3: which is just as important as as law enforcement. We've

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Speaker 3: employed so many different prevention and intervention strategies because I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't think in Oklahoma City it may have

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Speaker 3: been different in DC. I know they had a lot

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Speaker 3: of carjackings and stuff. Like in Oklahoma City. If I

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Speaker 3: just put a police officer just standing on every corner,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I would necessarily reduce crime at all,

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Speaker 3: because that's somewhere crime is happening. You know, it's a

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's not a public act for the most part,

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Speaker 3: and so public law enforcement is a component of the solution.

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Speaker 3: But prevention and intervention is just as important. And I

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Speaker 3: think you've seen a lot of cities reduced in our crime, which,

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Speaker 3: by the way, all crime is going down across the

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Speaker 3: country because we've embraced those those multifaceted approaches.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original off for six hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers

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Speaker 1: across the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

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Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer. You need somebody

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Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for Thepeople dot com,

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Speaker 1: Slash podcast, or dial pound law Pound five to two

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Speaker 1: nine law on your cell phone. And remember all law

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Speaker 1: firms are not the same. So check out Morgan and Morgan.

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Speaker 1: They're he is free unless they win. Put your US

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Speaker 1: Conference of Mayors hat on back again for me. I've

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Speaker 1: heard some complaints from some mayors at least. I've read

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Speaker 1: some complaints from some mayors that the recruitment of ICE

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Speaker 1: officers with the fifty thousand dollars bonus is making it

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Speaker 1: what was already difficult in recruiting new local police officers.

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Speaker 1: That this that the amount of money they're throwing at

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Speaker 1: ICE recruitment is really sort of, you know, taking away

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Speaker 1: whatever pool of potential new officers there were. And worse,

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Speaker 1: you're actually losing some first, second, or third year police

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Speaker 1: officers jumping ship because hey, fifty grand signing bonus.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, I haven't heard that, I would say, though, I mean,

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Speaker 3: but I'll take it at face value.

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Speaker 1: But say that, Well, the videos they've been mo doing,

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Speaker 1: the TV ads, recruitment ads, I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: seen them. They've been all over different markets, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: they'll say, hey, in your you know, in Virginia won't

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Speaker 1: allow you to do your job here in Ice they will.

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Speaker 1: They're almost like recruiting current law local law enforcement to

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Speaker 1: jump ship, and it just seems counterproductive.

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends what your priorities are.

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Speaker 1: I guess totally get. It's counter productive to our to

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Speaker 1: the local counterproductive to the local officials. Yeah, obviously but right,

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Speaker 1: Trump's agenda is a different situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we we always have to function in

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Speaker 3: this free market. We're competing with other law enforcement agencies.

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Speaker 3: We're competing with obviously entirely different professions, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so one of the.

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Speaker 3: Things that of course cities across the country have done

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Speaker 3: in these last five years, I would say there's probably

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Speaker 3: been a pretty historically significant escalation in salaries and bonuses,

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Speaker 3: you know. More so, I mean, we've given our biggest

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Speaker 3: raises in city history just in these last few years.

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Speaker 1: You still have a pension for police officers or is

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Speaker 1: it a different retirement.

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Speaker 3: The retirement is run by the state, but it's very

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Speaker 3: generous here. Yeah, it's a it's a pension system and yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's I mean generous relative to public servants

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Speaker 3: in general. Right, So, I you know, I don't think

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Speaker 3: within the ecosystem of law enforcement here in Oklahoma, I

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Speaker 3: think we're highly competitive. But yeah, obviously if something some

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Speaker 3: new opportunity that's sort of uh, you know, law enforcement

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Speaker 3: adjacent presents itself with those types of numbers, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's challenging, But I don't know that I can really

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Speaker 3: tell external entities, they stop paying people so much.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think we just know how raise our game.

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Speaker 2: I get that.

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Speaker 1: Well, is this you know there's some chatter of a

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Speaker 1: crime bill that might come out of Congress, you know,

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Speaker 1: which could mean some funding for hiring of more police officers.

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Speaker 1: What what what if they come to you saying, what

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Speaker 1: would you like to see in this crime bill? What

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Speaker 1: would help Oklahoma City? Do you need money? Do you

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Speaker 1: need something else? What do you need?

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Speaker 3: Well, we always need money, I would say, but that

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Speaker 3: I would like it to be well as much as

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Speaker 3: possible money that's you know, that we can directly influence,

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Speaker 3: because I think local decisions about how money is spent

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Speaker 3: tend to be the best. So the closest it can

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Speaker 3: be to some sort of block grant, the better. But

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Speaker 3: and the closest it can be to something distributed directly

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Speaker 3: to cities and not through states.

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Speaker 2: But more specifically, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean I would obviously look for funding for police salaries.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even though I said we have the money,

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Speaker 3: I mean that doesn't mean we have the money to

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Speaker 3: pay them to compete with fifty thousand dollars signing bonuses,

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Speaker 3: you know, So I mean maybe that's something that could

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Speaker 3: be in assistance. But I would also say, like to

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Speaker 3: my earlier comment, I would say, also help us, help

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Speaker 3: us on the intervention and prevention strategies. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: going back to the nineties, you know the Cops grants

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00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: under the Clinton administration, those help fund police officers. But

436
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: we also spend a lot of time talking about midnight basketball. Right, Well,

437
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 3: these are these concepts, they're kind of universal and timeless,

438
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 3: and we still need we still need cops, and we

439
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 3: still need midnight basketball.

440
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 2: Those youth programs.

441
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: Matter in the summer, those youth programs. I mean when

442
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: d C, when does d C have a crime spike.

443
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: It's in the summer, and when does it go down?

444
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: And it's not just DC. A lot of cities are

445
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: that way, right, You get this mini spike in the summer,

446
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: and you know, if more community programs, it's amazing how

447
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 1: the you can you can bend that curve back. Yeah,

448
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: let's go to housing. It's a it's a it's the

449
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: issue I hear. I'll hear it from members of Congress.

450
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 1: What's a what's an issue that the media doesn't talk

451
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: about enough? But your constituents bring up all the time,

452
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: and they'll say, uh, the cost of housing. Is there

453
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 1: help on the federal level that would help you? Or

454
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: is this a zoning issue on your end? Is this

455
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: a state and local challenge and there's not much the

456
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: feds can do to help you out.

457
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: Well, it's all of the above, and certainly we should

458
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: all do what we can. And there are there are

459
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 3: bills that are right now in the process in Congress,

460
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 3: both in the House and the Senate, that are remarkably bipartisans.

461
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: So about a month or.

462
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: Two ago, Senator Warren raised in Oklahoma City, by the way,

463
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: but obviously now a senator from Massachusetts, introduced a bill

464
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 3: with Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, a bipartisan alliance

465
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 3: that's got a it's kind of a whole gamut of

466
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 3: housing programs in it. So that passed out of committee unanimously.

467
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: So we're hoping to see that get some kind of traction,

468
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: either added to another piece of legislation or a Senate

469
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: floor vote.

470
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: And then over in the House, you've.

471
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: Got Representative Flood of Nebraska has is introducing a bill

472
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 3: with Representative Cleaver of Missouri. This is a Republican and

473
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 3: a Democrat, and that's that's their answer to the housing problem.

474
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: We were up there a couple of weeks ago meeting

475
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: with a lot of these people that I just described

476
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 3: and others, and they all said that even their internal

477
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: caucus polling is telling them the housing is like the

478
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: number one issue. It's right up there, and they've all

479
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: got to be working on it. So so we're obviously we're

480
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: supportive as mayors of anything that moves the ball forward

481
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 3: and any piece of legislation that's getting traction in Congress.

482
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: And obviously we have a big role to play as well,

483
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: and we need to make sure that you know, the

484
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: regulatory environment is positive and we can also do incentive

485
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 3: programs here in Oklahoma City. Actually two weeks from today

486
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: we're voting on a larger initiative that includes in a

487
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars for affordable housing incentives for developers. So

488
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: you know, we're trying to do our part as well,

489
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: and I'm sure the state could could also come to

490
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 3: the table, but we we would love to see some

491
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: of these congressional acts move forward.

492
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: We believe that would you get from it?

493
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: What are they proposing that would help We're.

494
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: All just like they're so like comprehensive you know, no,

495
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: I get it. But is it just financial incentives? What

496
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 2: is it?

497
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, there's a little bit of everything. Certainly financial stuff,

498
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 3: certainly stuff around CDBG trying to incentive, in some cases

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: incentivize local governments to do more housing with their CDBG funds.

500
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 3: And for your listener, CDBG development Block grants, it's a

501
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: kind of a local block grant that's been given to

502
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: city government since nineteen seventies.

503
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: Sometimes use for housing, for public housing.

504
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes it's for public housing or any kind of

505
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: a I mean, you know, the.

506
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: World's kind of moved away from like giant housing projects

507
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 3: a little bit, but you know, yeah, I mean definitely

508
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 3: publicly funded in finance housing, yes, for sure. And I

509
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: think that one key component is to try to incentivize

510
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 3: local governments to do more of that with their CDBG

511
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: funding and maybe give them more money if they do that.

512
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 3: That's just an example. It's like any congressional act. Both

513
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: of these bills have hundreds of provisions and hundreds of

514
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: programs and and uh and some of them we may

515
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: actually have some trepidation about, but we're working through all that.

516
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 1: And right, well, give me, give me an example of

517
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: where you'd have some trepidation where they're you know, like

518
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: they think that helps woulday on.

519
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: That well, I mean it's nippicky.

520
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: But on that one program I just described where they're

521
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: giving more CDBG money to some cities, they're actually taking

522
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: it from other cities.

523
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: Who aren't doing it right. So it's a cariden a stick,

524
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: you know.

525
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 3: So we don't always love the sticks, but but that's.

526
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: This kind of stuff.

527
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: We're just happy when they're talking about it. We kind

528
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: of a I feel like we're at the stage where

529
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: we're not quibbling over provisions. We're just trying to get

530
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: people in Congress to say this is as an important

531
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: an issue as we think it is, and we just

532
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 3: are kind of supportive of anything that's moving forward right now.

533
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: So let's stay with this.

534
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: One of the things I struggle with as a riddle is,

535
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: you know, I consider myself a free market guy. I

536
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: consider myself a capitalists. I don't know how you control

537
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: for affordable housing in a free market system, and I

538
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: don't know how over time right like that, That to

539
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: me is you know, how do you how do you

540
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: cap the value right?

541
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: And at the same.

542
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: Time, what why is owning a home part of the

543
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: American dream because that's how you're able to sort of

544
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: move up the next rung of the ladder. But if

545
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: you put a cap on the ability of the value

546
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: of said home, then you've actually capped the ability of

547
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: said person to move up the ladder. Right, You see

548
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: where I'm going here, Like, you know, on one hand,

549
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: you're trying to be you know, spread the wealth for

550
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: more affordable housing. At the same time, you're not trying

551
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: you don't want to create an artificial market either.

552
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll get I think I

553
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: have something of an answer for you by describing maybe

554
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: in more detail, what we do in what we're doing

555
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: in Oklahoma City. And we're kind of, you know, politically,

556
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: we're sort of a free market community.

557
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 2: We're pro business.

558
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the word rent control would be something

559
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: I said very often, yeah.

560
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 3: Like like literally never right, Like that would never even

561
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: come up, right and I would never be discussed. So,

562
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 3: so how do we, as that kind of community, which

563
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 3: is probably more common than not, address these issues. Well, So,

564
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, our voters passed a bond issue that

565
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: had lots of stuff in it streets and bridges and

566
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: lots of things. But it also had a ten million

567
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: dollar fund where developers could come to us and they

568
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: might say, Okay, we're going to build an apartment complex,

569
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: and of course we live in the free market and

570
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: we want to make money, so we would just charge

571
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: charge market rent for all of those apartments absence some

572
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: subsidy or you know, some incentive that would kind of

573
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 3: fill the gap for us. And that's how obviously most

574
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: free market actors are going to behave They're not going to,

575
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: out of the goodness of their heart, charge less than

576
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: they possibly could, right.

577
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 2: So that's where govern can come in.

578
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: So they come to us and they say, like, you know,

579
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 3: if you give me a million dollar allocation out of

580
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: this ten million dollar fund, I will offer twenty four apartments,

581
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: you know, at this lower rate to people making this

582
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: percentage of you know, the median income of the county. Right,

583
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 3: I mean he gets obviously all its means tested.

584
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: You wouldn't allow somebody of wealth to get somebody at

585
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: a cheap the price, right, yeah.

586
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: Right, and so and so we've been doing that successfully.

587
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: And this bond issue that we're actually voting on as

588
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: a community on October fourteenth has another fifty because we

589
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: feel like fifty million, because we feel like this has

590
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: been proven to be successful and impactful. We could probably

591
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: spend you know, hundreds of millions of dollars on this.

592
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: We're doing what we can within the context of other

593
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: needs that we have as a city.

594
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: But I think this is this specific program.

595
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: And I'm sure there's lots of great ideas out there

596
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: in the laboratories of democracy, but you know, this is

597
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: an example I think of what you're talking about, like,

598
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 3: how can we maybe more positively impact the free market

599
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: without without limiting values, without rent, you know, controlling rent,

600
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: without artificially manipulating it too much. I mean, we are

601
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: coming in and we're manipulating the market to some extent,

602
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: but we're using your tax dollars to do it. And

603
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: we even asked you for permission because you're saying, Okay,

604
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: that's a priority to me. I want to use my

605
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: tax dollars to meet that need.

606
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: On the.

607
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm curious on the on rent, are there similar ways

608
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: to incentivize landlords not to raise rent too fast, too quickly,

609
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: and and what's a way to do it again without

610
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: feeling like you're killing the free market.

611
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: I think in a community like Oklahoma City, it would

612
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: have to be through something like I'm describing where you're

613
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: filling the gap for the land, uh, for the for

614
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: the Is.

615
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: It a property tax break or something like that.

616
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's just like a different way of

617
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: giving them an incentive. It's just like you don't have

618
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: to take the money and hand it back to them,

619
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: you just don't take it in the first place. But yeah,

620
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: I mean to me, that's just the same thing. You're

621
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: essentially using the collective tax base of the of the

622
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: community to incentivize a developer so they can maintain their profits,

623
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: but they're getting less money out of their out of

624
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: their renter. I think that's kind of the best answer

625
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: there is in free market pro free market communities like

626
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: Oklahoma City, we're never going to talk about rent control

627
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: and that sort of thing. Also, of course, we have

628
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: an Oklahoma City Housing Authority. We put fifty million dollars

629
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: into a previous initiative I had. Even this is a

630
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: different fifty million dollars that is helping them revitalize and

631
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: refurbish and rebuild and build a new you know, their

632
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: own housing offerings that are truly public housing. That's kind

633
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: of a different thing. Obviously, that's kind of even lower

634
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: on the socioeconomics scale. Those are people that, like you know,

635
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: their next step is homelessness, and certainly that's that can

636
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: be part of the solution as well.

637
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: Let me go to the uh before, before I get

638
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: you out of here, let me go to the other.

639
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: What I think is going to be a challenge in

640
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: the next year for every mayor and I think every

641
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: governor thanks to COVID, and I would argue you could

642
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: even go back to the Great Recession. The federal government

643
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: has been shoveling a lot of money to states and

644
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: cities over the last decade for a variety of necessities. Okay,

645
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: these were necessary reasons, COVID being porhaps the best most

646
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: recent example. This stuff is starting to go away, right

647
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: in some cases it already has. Some of this stuff

648
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: is is there is there a budget crisis coming? I

649
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: sense it on the state level. Is that about to

650
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: trickle down to cities over the next year or two?

651
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: Are you are you going to start feeling a squeeze

652
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: on all your budgets?

653
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's variable across the country. You're right,

654
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: I mean when you think about Cares Act and our uh,

655
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: there were some pretty massive amounts given to cities.

656
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: It really killed a gap by teacher salaries. I know

657
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: that like that really helped a lot of states give raises.

658
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: I mean State of Florida gave a whole bunch of

659
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: raises to you, said sheally, teachers and first responders because

660
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: of this Lettle money.

661
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

662
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, I would say in Alklahoma City, I mean,

663
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: in either of those initiatives, I think we got some

664
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 3: number that was around one hundred to one hundred and

665
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars solibler. Now, but you know, we have

666
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: an annual budget operating budget of a billion dollars, and

667
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: we never thought it would be wise to use that

668
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 3: money for an ongoing expense, knowing that it was a

669
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 3: one time payment, so like we would not have necessarily

670
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 3: used it to provide raises for example.

671
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: It didn't plug holes, right, I think a lot of

672
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: people used to.

673
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: Plug I mean, but I'm speaking for myself, I think

674
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: that other cities you responsible.

675
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: Mayor you is what you're really saying.

676
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: I said, I think we're okay, but I do think, yeah,

677
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 3: I think that's going to it already is a challenge

678
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: for other cities, and you're seeing some layoffs around the

679
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 3: country in municipalities. I mean, just google layoffs and cities

680
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 3: or layoffs and mayor, and you're going to see that

681
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: that's happening in some cities around the country. They're working

682
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: their way through it. But I mean, you know, it's

683
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: also part of the ebb and flow of life, and

684
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: mayors have dealt with these ups and downs through the decades.

685
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: So I don't, I don't. I like to.

686
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 3: I try not to throw the word crisis around too liberally,

687
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 3: you know, So I think it's less a crisis than

688
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: it is a challenge we've got to meet in the

689
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 3: next few years.

690
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: Does this mean you know, look, you you you talk

691
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: about the different ways you've raised revenue, You've got to

692
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: go to the voters every time you do it.

693
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: In Oklahoma City, Yes, and actually over the last thirty years,

694
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: you know, our renaissance to Oklahoma City kind of starts

695
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: around the time of the bombing in nineteen ninety five,

696
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: and since that time we are fourteen and oh in selections. Interesting,

697
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 3: and it's all been Republican mayors, if I'm not mistaken, right, Yes, yeah,

698
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: and that whole era, and uh yeah, and a city

699
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 3: that's still majority registered Republican even if they a little

700
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: you know, independent in their federal voting. But we've just

701
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 3: done a really good job of, i think, show building

702
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: trust and showing that, you know, the important role that

703
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,959
Speaker 3: government can play, and like just being really transparent about

704
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 3: it and then following through and obviously being able to

705
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 3: see the results, you know. I mean, I think the

706
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,479
Speaker 3: peel of Oklahoma City have a very optimistic view of

707
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 3: the way that local government can impact their lives, and

708
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: they they have seen those results time and time and

709
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: time again. And we're living you're catching me, you know,

710
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 3: in the still in the continued glow of an NBA championship,

711
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: and our residents would say, that's that's all part of

712
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: this amazing journey. And it all kind of started with government.

713
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: Was going to say you threw money at getting a

714
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: sports franchise, right. That's not always popular with voters.

715
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

716
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, the city of San Diego lost the Chargers

717
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: because voters said no to taxpayers subsidizing a stadium for them.

718
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: Why do you think you Oklahoma City residents embraced the

719
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: idea of all right, we're going to subsidize these billionaire

720
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: sports owners.

721
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: Because so in twenty twenty three, specifically, we passed a

722
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 3: six year, one cent sales tax to fund a billion

723
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: dollar arena, and they got seventy one percent. And most

724
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: cities either fail these or have given up trying because

725
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: they don't.

726
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: They don't really passed anywhere anymore.

727
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: I would say here, and this is before the NBA championship. Yeah,

728
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: it's before the championship, I would say here. And I

729
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: spent a couple of years started educating my voters on

730
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 3: leading up to that vote, on the realities of being

731
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: in the forty second largest market. I love to say

732
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 3: were the twentieth largest city, and that's absolutely true, but

733
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: when you throw in the suburbs, which matters more to

734
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: a business or a sports team, right, the forty second

735
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: largest market, and there's just some realities that come with that.

736
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 3: We're not going to get the same deal that the

737
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 3: top five market is going to get, or even a

738
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 3: top twenty market. And also, like we've only had the

739
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: team seventeen years, so we kind of remember what life

740
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: was like before. I'm a big believer that your first

741
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 3: major league professional sports team for a city like ours

742
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: and there's a few examples of this through the last

743
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 3: thirty or forty years Charlotte, Nashville, Oklahoma City, where like

744
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 3: you've said your first team and then this, yeah, and

745
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 3: this like explosion happens in the city, and you cannot

746
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: convince me it's a coincidence. I mean, I think it

747
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 3: is the closest thing that we have in American life

748
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 3: to bestowing a Blue ribbon on our top cities is

749
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: giving them a team in the NBA, the MLB, or

750
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 3: the NFL and to a much lesser extent, nh L

751
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 3: and MLF.

752
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: And when that happens, it just kind of changes your

753
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: whole identity a major you know. I mean, there's something

754
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: about that.

755
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: It's just the words, right, you're a major market at

756
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: that point.

757
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know, when when if you're talking about

758
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: the second or third or fourth arena or stadium that

759
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: you need to build, that's a different conversation because that's

760
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 3: not changing your status.

761
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: That's just providing work things to do. But but that first.

762
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 3: Team, like that arena unlocks It's not about winning a

763
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: championship or going to do something fun on a Tuesday night.

764
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: It unlocks our identity.

765
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 3: Now, it unlocks our identity, as you said, as a

766
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: major league city, and so that's why I think it

767
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 3: did so well here among other reasons. I mean, there's

768
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: fandom and all those things, right, But it was, it

769
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: was it was a great moment and obviously very nice.

770
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 3: It secured for us the team for another twenty five

771
00:39:52,480 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: years and a new and a new arena.

772
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City has been in growth mode obviously. It feels like,

773
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, particularly since the bombing for sure, right, there's

774
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: like that that was just a fork in the road

775
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, and it does feel like.

776
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: Is there a fear that it's growing? You know what?

777
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 2: What's the is you know, quote unquote smart growth? Right?

778
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: Is it?

779
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: Do you worry about growing too fast? Do you worry

780
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: about growing too big? Is there is there? Is there

781
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: too much of a good thing that you are concerned about?

782
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 2: Yes?

783
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: Although I would say you can't. The only way to

784
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 3: stop growth is to make your community an unappealing place

785
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: still live, right, You can't build a wall around it, right,

786
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 3: So I I you know.

787
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: We tried that in the fourteen hundreds and the fifteen hundreds.

788
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: That didn't work.

789
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 2: Counsel Yeah, so so uh, you kind of have to.

790
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: If you're a mayor, you sort of have to embrace

791
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: population growth as validation that you're doing things right, and

792
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 3: then you just got to do your best to anticipate

793
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 3: it and try to build for it. The problem, of course,

794
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 3: the natural problem is like I could tell you what

795
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: we should be doing right now, but I don't necessarily

796
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 3: have the.

797
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: Money to do that.

798
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: I don't get in advance from future taxpayers to like

799
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: build out the infrastructure that they're going to need twenty

800
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 3: years from now. We do our best, we try to allocate.

801
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 3: We're having I think over the next couple years are

802
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 3: going to have an important conversation about public transit as

803
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 3: an example of trying to get ahead of this growth.

804
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: But I'm not ignorant to the fact that previous it's cities,

805
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: and I argue that we're kind of on the customer.

806
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: We're there, like Austin or Nashville or Charlotte have a

807
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: hell of a lot more traffic than they used to.

808
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: Boston Nashville is to I agree, it's like they grew

809
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: too fast. You're like, you know, you've got to so

810
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: you've got to have the infrastructure to support your growth.

811
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, but I also am sympathetic too.

812
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 4: I'm sure there were people who knew that back then

813
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 4: weren't but it's like, you don't have the money until

814
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 4: the people are all there and they start paying taxes,

815
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 4: and then of course it's government works.

816
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 3: So I mean we're talking about it takes years and

817
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: years and years to build out the infrastructure. So anyways,

818
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: it's a it's a challenge, and it's it's it's a

819
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: foreseeable one.

820
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: That does not mean that it can be met.

821
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: We're doing our best, but yeah, growth is absolutely the

822
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 3: greatest challenge you know, we'll face over the next ten

823
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: years in Oklahoma City. I'm going to get both the

824
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: greatest thing, the greatest benefit will have and the greatest challenge.

825
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to get you out of here on my

826
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: pet project, which is local news and the need for

827
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: more reliable community information. Just in your you're now about

828
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: to finish the second term. You're still going to run

829
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: for a third term. I know last year you said

830
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: you were inclined to, so you're definitely running.

831
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I'm going to host seven events of the

832
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 3: Summer Olympics, Chuck, I got to be here for that.

833
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: That's great.

834
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are going to be uh women's softball

835
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and uh yes, the which is so addictive to watch

836
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: on TV, that crazy water rapid thing. You know, God

837
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: blessed technology that we we could create piece things. It's

838
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: you did you ever think you'd be a suburb of

839
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: la I mean that's pretty cool.

840
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 3: No, it's been awesome. It's a it's a testament to

841
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: investing in ourselves. And I worked on it with Mayor

842
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: Garcetti and mayorbas for the better part of a decade.

843
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: It's it's an amazing opportunity for us.

844
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: Well no, but it's a smart way like look the

845
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: Olympics have become, you know, for a lot of cities.

846
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: You know, look I got I got the opportunity to

847
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: see how Paris did it. In Paris, you know, didn't

848
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: build new venues, they worked with old venues and it

849
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: and it revitalized the city. And so you know, don't

850
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, if you already have a great facility for

851
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: women's softball, use it, showcase.

852
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: It in America? Right, you know?

853
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: Anyway, but on the how do you communicate with your

854
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: How much harder is it today to communicate just with

855
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: everybody in Oklahoma City. I was just speaking to a

856
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: class of young journalists. We live in the this is

857
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: the metro area of Washington, d C. And I'm like,

858
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: how do you get your new And you know, the

859
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: Washington Post doesn't cover local news. The washingt Post is

860
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: a national paper. It's a terrific national paper. But in

861
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: some ways, because they're a terrific national paper, they don't

862
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: cover our little communities. You're a former newspaper editor for

863
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: a local paper in DC called The GW Hatchet.

864
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 3: Right.

865
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: The point is you are the only one covering foggy

866
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,479
Speaker 1: Bottom as a neighborhood. Right, The Washington Post didn't do it.

867
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: You have a lot of foggy bottoms in Oklahoma City.

868
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: How much harder is it to communicate? How fragmented is

869
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: it just in your ability to communicate with your constituents.

870
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: Well, I feel like I've I've developed a workaround, but

871
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 3: I'll but I'll explain that in a moment. But it

872
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: is a problem, and maybe my work around is maybe

873
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: not easy for everybody. But I actually I've been mayor

874
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 3: for seven years, I was a state centator for eight

875
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: and I was the mayor's chief of staff for five

876
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: years before that. So I have definitely had a front

877
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: row seat to this progression. And when I was the

878
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: mayor chief of staff, I mean, we had reporters for

879
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: the paper at our commission meetings, right, the Zoo Trust

880
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 3: had a reporter in the room. We're lucky if we

881
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: have reporters today at the city council meeting, you know.

882
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 3: And that's like that would be the big show in

883
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 3: our in our former government.

884
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: Right.

885
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: So it is distressing because there's important things happening there

886
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: people need to know about it. There's also there's also

887
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 3: a room for mischief, and the media was there to

888
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 3: prevent that, you know, and to shine a light on that, and.

889
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: It so it concerns me.

890
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: And then here's the maybe the even greater problem is

891
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: even when they do cover that stuff, nobody reads it

892
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 3: like it's not penetrating, you know, like the way it

893
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: used to that the Daily Oklahoma and our paper for

894
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 3: one hundred years. I mean that front page drove every

895
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: conversation in the entire city for that day.

896
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: And that was a so that newspaper had a strong voice. Okay,

897
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: and I'll just leave it at that, right, but I say.

898
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: That that's a whole nother podcast. You're right, But it

899
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 3: had you know, your local history here.

900
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: That's right. It had a strong voice and and it

901
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: was what it was, but they did cover the community.

902
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so well so so so anyways, with this

903
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 3: this fractionalization, as you said, of interest and media, my

904
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: workaround is I and I would argue, I I if

905
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 3: you look at my follower accounts, if you look at

906
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,959
Speaker 3: my content, I mean you'll say, like, okay, you're you're

907
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: You're at the vanguard of mayors on social media. And

908
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 3: I would argue that I am kind of a one

909
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: man news operation sharing what's going on in the city.

910
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: Obviously.

911
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: I mean the downfall of that is it's my perspective,

912
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: and that's going to be, you know, my perspective, and

913
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: we deserve other perspectives probably, But I try to be

914
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 3: fair and I'm also authentic. I'm the only one with

915
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: the passwords. I mean, I am for better or words.

916
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: I'm the one posting on it a grand Facebook, Twitter

917
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: and threats and.

918
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: Your kids are cringing every time right now, I'm kidding,

919
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: what's that? And your kids are cringing every time?

920
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 2: Right yeah? Yeah, probably yeah, out of fear. But I'm trying.

921
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people tell me, they're like,

922
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 3: I get my news from you about Oklahoma City, you know.

923
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: And so I'm trying to fill that gap, and I

924
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: try to deliver civic lessons to the best I can,

925
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 3: you know. But I mean that's not for everybody, you know, obviously,

926
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people do it through you know,

927
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 3: staff that maybe aren't aren't as authentic or as interesting.

928
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: But I think I think the answer is ultimately nonprofit journalism.

929
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 3: I think a community has to decide that that the

930
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: media actually are public servants and they have been filling

931
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: a really important role in American life for two hundred

932
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: and fifty years, and we as a community are going

933
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: to have to pay for that through you know, philanthropy

934
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 3: or I mean, heck, I mean, we may be twenty

935
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: years away from or less from having conversations about what

936
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 3: that we should have some sort of taxpayer funded you

937
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 3: know news.

938
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: I know, I'm very I'm very you know.

939
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: Look, I understand the the nonprofit I call it a crutch,

940
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: right because it's the easiest answer now, But I'm desperate

941
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: to find a revenue stream to make it sustainable, right

942
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: And and my ideal is what I'd like to see

943
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: is everybody. Every news organization locally operate like the Green

944
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: Bay Packers, where the community owns the news organization. Not

945
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: necessarily a for profit or a nonprofit. It's more of

946
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: almost a cooperative that a community cooperative because the community

947
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: needs it to find out what the hell's going on? Right,

948
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: But it's sort of self I don't know, but we

949
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: definitely community has to own it.

950
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: I worry about.

951
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: Taxpayer funding for it because then that's right, not for

952
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: obvious reasons.

953
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's state state journalism is not doesn't

954
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 3: have the best track record in human history.

955
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: But no, but it's it's But it sounds like you

956
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: feel like there are probably gaps in your community, you know,

957
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: how do you keep up with what's happening in your

958
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: community if you don't have you know, a local muckbreaker

959
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: letting you know.

960
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, just it's it's concerning and and

961
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: it is definitely uh. I think much like it's probably

962
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: one of the top issues facing the civic life of

963
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: our of our nation, much like I think electoral reform.

964
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: We got to figure this out, too, We gotta we

965
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 3: gotta figure out a way for people to get information

966
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 3: about the civic life of their city because that what

967
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: people are getting a lot of news. But it's like

968
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 3: professional wrestling, you know, and that's what's killing Among the

969
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 3: things that is killing our civic life is this entertainment news. Yeah,

970
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 3: but government is not entertaining for the most part. It's

971
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 3: boring and uh and you need to you need that.

972
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 3: You need that kind of news too, as much as

973
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: you think you don't it. It did meet the need

974
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 3: for a very long time in our in our nation.

975
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: Well and at a minimum, you got to find out

976
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: what the where the what the Oklahoma centers are doing.

977
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: You got to find out if the thunder is going

978
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: to like be active on the trade deadline, right, I mean,

979
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, I kid, but well that's what But that

980
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: is part of it. Like what I always say is

981
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: local journalism is serviced. You got to cover the stories

982
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: the people want. People want that stuff. You cover what

983
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: they want, and then you cover the stuff that they

984
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: need to know. Right, You've got to be an a

985
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: not an ore in that situation.

986
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right. Well, keep keep that as

987
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: your pet project. That's a good thing. I will do that.

988
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: Oklahoma. Are you You're a GW guy, which is very

989
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: important as far as you and I are concerned. But

990
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: for college football, are you is there just is poor

991
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State just out now? No, I mean they're they're

992
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: just sort of the step the step child of Oklahoma football.

993
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, well, not for their graduates obviously, and

994
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: they they are. They are significantly upgraded as program from

995
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 3: where they were twenty years ago. And Mike Gundy, who

996
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 3: was obviously recently let go, was one of the big

997
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 3: drivers of that, so he deserves a lot of credit

998
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 3: for that. But yeah, OUs, I would say OU's moved

999
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 3: to the SEC obviously took them to another level, and

1000
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: you know, I think we'll still reckon with that for

1001
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 3: years to come. How that has altered the dynamic between

1002
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 3: those two programs.

1003
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: OU is obviously doing great with that move.

1004
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 3: And they're they're more approximate to Oklahoma City there, they're

1005
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: a suburb of OKCE. I'm a season ticket holder there.

1006
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 3: I am not a graduate of either institution, but yeah,

1007
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 3: that'll be interesting to watch. OU seems to be settling

1008
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 3: in now into that new dynamic very well.

1009
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: And oh, the.

1010
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 1: OU and Oklahoma State they're just they're not even scheduled

1011
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: to play right, No, I mean.

1012
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: The way college football scheduling works. I mean, if they

1013
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 3: decided today, they probably wouldn't play until twenty thirty five,

1014
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 3: So you know, yeah, it's it's way off in the

1015
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 3: future when we will see the return of what we

1016
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 3: call bedlam. You know, I know.

1017
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: It was such a I'm these I love. I'm a

1018
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,720
Speaker 2: sucker for those college.

1019
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: Trophies, the trophy games, the nicknames like the Sooklan Oregon

1020
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: Oregon state was the Civil War, the Apple Cup like

1021
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: those are you know? And then the fact that we

1022
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: got rid of those things is a bummer. Mayor Holp,

1023
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,439
Speaker 1: this was great. If people take away just one thing, man,

1024
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: nonpartisan primaries. Yes, this is how you change governing incentives.

1025
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean to me this if this was the most

1026
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: important message you could have conveyed, I feel like to

1027
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: anybody listening.

1028
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if I could sum it up real quickly

1029
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 3: on that topic, because open primaries, all of these things

1030
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 3: have sort of infinite variations. Here's what I what I

1031
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: have believed after thinking about this for many, many years.

1032
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 2: These are the two principles. You need.

1033
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 3: All the voters need to be able to see all

1034
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 3: the candidates, and all the candidates have to face all

1035
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: the voters. If your system aligns with those two principles,

1036
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: you're going to get much much, much better outcomes for

1037
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 3: all of them.

1038
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: There you have it. I couldn't have said it any

1039
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: better myself. Mayor hol thanks a lot, Thank you, Jack

1040
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: M.