1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You. From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And this episode comes from a 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: listener request and it was a great one. And she 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: as she asked on Facebook, what's up with the mother 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: in law stereotype? By mother in law, I mean monster 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: in law that mothers in law are make life living 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: hell for especially the daughters in law, like whoever their 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: son marries or they they're just meddlesome. They pop over 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: whenever they want and really life would be better without them. Marie, 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: that's that's from Everybody Loves Rainon. Oh yeah, stereotypical awful 12 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: mother in law. Yeah, t he loves a good obnoxious 13 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: in law. TV tropes dot Org that we've signed a 14 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: number of times refers to this as the obnoxious in laws. 15 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: A happily married couple of faces various problems, but none 16 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: quite like the sitcom in law. A member of one 17 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: couple's family, Often the wife says an obnoxious animosity towards 18 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: their relative spouse. They hate the person their daughter, sister, son, 19 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: brother is married to and aren't shy about reaffirming it. 20 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: And I feel like among the obnoxious in laws. The 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: mother in law takes the cake, maybe because of Everybody 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: Loves Raymond. Doris Roberts plays Marie Barone, and I make 23 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: a point to not watch Everybody Loves Raymond. No offense 24 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: to yell our fans out there, But if she's one 25 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons I wouldn't. I don't think I could 26 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: sit through an entire episode. Yeah, it's just she's like, 27 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: you're not eating enough. What are they feeding you? Yeah? Now, 28 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: I have to say that when my parents watched that show, 29 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: my mother just looks at my father and it's like, 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: do you see that? Do you? Does that look familiar? 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: Chad Well. So other pop culture examples are Bewitched for 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: Bewitched fans and Dora Samantha's mom comes over and always 33 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: is always like putting her nose in their witchy business meet. 34 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: The parents built an entire franchise around Cookie in law, 35 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: so that was more focused on the dangerous father in law. Yeah. Um. 36 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: And then there is Jane fund At, Jane Fonda, why 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: why did you? Why did you make the movie Monster 38 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: in Law co starring Jennifer Lopez and that guy with 39 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: the hair. I don't know. I don't know which guy. 40 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 1: I don't know either, um, but maybe I mean these 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: the fact that the stereotype exists, it's not completely baseless 42 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: because historically there have been some pretty infamous mothers in law. 43 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: By infamous, you mean great. So you guys remember FDR Right, 44 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: that president at that time. Yeah, he was recently played 45 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: by Bill Murray. Yeah, that's right, that's right. I'm looking 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: forward to that. I'm I think I think I am 47 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: his mother. Sarah Delano Roosevelt actually took him on a 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: cruise to dissuade him from marrying his distant cousin Eleanor. 49 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: She lost that battle, um, and as a wedding present. 50 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: So okay. One of the big things about mothers in 51 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: law is that daughters in law often think that they're 52 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: like putting their nose into their business. She actually built 53 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: them a house and completely furnished it herself and was like, here, 54 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: you go, make this your kingdom. So that that's a 55 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: that's a pretty big like nose sticking into I think 56 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: my favorite, though, is Madge Gates Wallace, whose daughter Best 57 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: married Harry Truman. So the whole time that that Harry 58 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: is is courting Best, Madge is just not having it. 59 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: She's like, I don't approve of you. You're no good 60 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: you're not educated, and if you're not good enough. Um. 61 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: She actually looked after them as newlyweds because they couldn't 62 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: afford their own house, and even after they got to 63 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: the White House, she still belittled her son in law constantly, 64 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: even when she moved into the White House with them. Yeah, 65 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: she actually favored Thomas Dewey to win the election by 66 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: a landslide, and Truman was like, come on, mom, masag 67 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: didn't care. Um now over. In the Telegraph, Lisa Dillner 68 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: cites Queen Victoria as having um a rocky relationship with 69 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: her daughters in law. One of them, Alex was not 70 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: allowed to breastfeed because old Vics did. Was not into that. 71 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: She didn't like that idea. Margaret Thatcher, also the Iron Lady, 72 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: was said to be a formidable mother in law um, 73 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: having invested far too much in her son according to 74 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: her son's now at X wife. But apparently that was 75 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: a major source of attention in their marriage. Was Margaret 76 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: Thatcher always or maybe Meryl Streep, always coming over to 77 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: the house and announce, who do I have to marry to? 78 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: Get Meryl Street to come hang out with me. No. Uh. 79 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: And then for a real life example, I found this 80 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: over at a Slate's advice column, Asked Prudence. A woman 81 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: wrote in frantically asking for advice because she was worried 82 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: that her mother in law was attempting to poison her 83 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: food because anytime they would have like a weekly meal 84 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: over at her husband's parents house. And she swears up 85 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: and down that every time she would become violently ill 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: with food poisoning, but her husband would be fine. But 87 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: the problem was the husband would kind of like kind 88 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: of laugh it off and think that she was sort 89 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: of overreacting, whereas she really thought that the mother in 90 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: law was out to kill her. And then also in 91 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: my research I found this uh random, very random Russian 92 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: joke point out like how this is kind of a 93 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: a global stereotype and it goes something like this, children 94 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: of the Flowers of life. Wife's mother is a cactus 95 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: of death. Cactus of death. I'm getting that tattoo. That's 96 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: gonna be my first tattoo. Well, I think one thing, um, 97 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: and we'll get into this more is you have to 98 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: consider the time period when this uh the stereotype was rampant. 99 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: Especially Luisa Dilner at The Telegraph points this out that 100 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: mother in law jokes in the UK at least were 101 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: on every comedy stage in the mid twentieth century because 102 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,799 Speaker 1: at the time a lot of young married couples would 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: initially live with parents before they could afford their own 104 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: place and move out on their own. So you know, 105 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: understandably some tensions might arise. Can you imagine, like you 106 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: can't go anywhere, you just have to live with her. 107 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: You just got to do it day. Well, my my 108 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: mother also is very um. She likes to consider herself 109 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: a very good mother in law and wants to avoid 110 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the stereotypes so much so that she refers to her 111 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: daughters in law as her daughters in love. Just I 112 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: think Disney birds just flew around the studio. They're just 113 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: my daughters in love outside daughters in law. Um. But 114 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: surveys also indicate that the acrimony is is very apparent 115 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: in the mother in law and especially if mother in 116 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: law to daughter in law, there's something about that relationship. 117 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: So read Book magazine reported on a survey showing that 118 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: mothers in law are kind of kind of like my mom, 119 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: bless her heart like to think that they are very 120 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: easy going on their daughters in law, that they're not, 121 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're not the Doris Roberts on Everybody 122 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Loves Raymond. Sixty percent would describe their daughter in law 123 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: as a daughter, friend, or the right woman for the 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: a son. Only ten percent referred to the daughter in 125 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: law as the enemy um and thought that they were 126 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: just okay or marginally disliked her. But still a majority 127 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: of them liked overall like the daughter in law. Although 128 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: and this is where I think a root of a 129 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: lot of attention comes in. Six copped to giving unsolicited 130 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: advice to the daughter in law. Yeah actually, well, forty 131 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: one point four percent of mothers in law surveys said 132 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: that their daughters in law never follow their advice that 133 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: they offered, and I just picture them like filling in 134 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: that bubble with an eye roll and a heavy sigh, 135 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: like never um. They they liked their daughters in law 136 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: in general, fifty three point nine percent said very much, 137 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: seven said she's okay, Yeah, she's she's okay, and nine 138 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: point one percent said not not at all. But there 139 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: seems to be more just pleasure when it comes to 140 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: the daughter in law evaluating the mother in law. Yeah, 141 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: as we'll get into a little bit when we talk 142 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: about advice and what to do with your pesky mother 143 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: and or daughter in law. I don't know whether it 144 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: would be and or anyway, daughters in law are sort 145 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: of primed to be a little sensitive and think that 146 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: the mother in law is meddling. So this Village study 147 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: found that, according to its users, fifty one percent of 148 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: daughters in law would rather stay home and clean than 149 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: have to listen to their mothers in law. So let's 150 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: talk about what women would rather do than go hang 151 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: out with the monster in law. Would rather visit a gynecologist. 152 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Now that involves a speculum. I like my doctor. I 153 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: like my doctor too, But they would rather get intimate 154 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: with a speculum then go hang out with their mother 155 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: in law. Point, would rather do jury duty, would prefer 156 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: to do their taxes or get a root canal. That's 157 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: that's intense. And seventy six seventy six per cent said 158 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: they would never seek parenting advice from a mother in law. 159 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: It's just going around in my head now, um, and yeah, 160 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean we were putting on something. A survey from 161 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: Red Book a survey from eye village, and that might 162 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: not seem like the most scholarly sources, but studies into 163 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:29,239 Speaker 1: in law relationships have not only highlighted this tension, particularly 164 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: with the daughters in law and mothers in law, but 165 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: also highlighted, unfortunately again the mother in law as above 166 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: and beyond generally the most troublesome in law. And this 167 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: is also a cross cultural pattern. There was a ninety 168 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: nine study comparing attitudes among families in the US, Kuwait, Egypt, 169 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: and Sedan, and all of them finger pointed to the 170 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: mother in law. Mama's just love their babies, their sons, 171 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: they do, they do, and and they love their daughters. 172 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean this can go obviously like different ways. Um So, 173 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: because of this stereotype and because survey data continues to 174 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: point out that this problematic relationship, Cambridge University psychologist Terry 175 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: Apter looked into it a little bit deeper to try 176 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of what's going on, and 177 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: she wrote a book about it called What Do You 178 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: Want from Me? Learning to Get Along Within Laws? And 179 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: she actually found some pretty some pretty telling patterns about 180 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: what's going on a lot of times. Yeah, she said 181 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: that it's generally a clash of expectations and assumptions, thing 182 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: that the things that the mother in law assume are 183 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: going to happen, things that the daughter in law is 184 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: worried will happen. And she said that of women describe 185 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: the mother and daughter in law relationship as strained, infuriating, 186 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: and simply awful, whereas only fifteen percent of men complained 187 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: about their mother in law. Yeah, and she attributes this 188 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: to an issue of vulnerability. Um because two thirds of 189 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: women said they felt that their mothers in law were 190 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: jealous of their relationships with sons, while two thirds of 191 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: mothers in law said they felt excluded by their son's wives. 192 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, the son is apparently just kicking up his 193 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: feet and of an abruski or something like this. Also, 194 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: we should also point out that almost all of this 195 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: research is exclusively dealing with heterosexual married couples. Um and 196 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: uh After also cites some other studies, such as one 197 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: that came out of Japan in two thousand and eight 198 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: and it was published in the journal Heart, which found 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: that women living in multigenerational households were two to three 200 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: times more likely to experience to experience coronary heart surgery 201 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: than women living with just their spouse, and there is 202 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: something about proximity that seems to increase that tension, at 203 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: least according to results from an Italian study. This is 204 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: my favorite, my favorite study maybe ever. Uh. This is 205 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: a National Statistics Institute study of Italian families. They found 206 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: that the odds that a marriage will last increase with 207 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: every one hundred yards couples placed between them and they're 208 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: in laws, to the point where Italian courts even ruled 209 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: that a wife has the right to a legal separation 210 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: if her husband is not effective in preventing his mother 211 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: from quote unquote invading their home. So that's pretty intense. 212 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: So essentially, if you want to avoid this conflict, just 213 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: move live far away. Yeah, because well that also sort 214 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: of removes a lot of the sticky factor, like the 215 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: awkwardness of like, please don't just drop by my house, 216 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: Please don't take over the raising of my children. Well, 217 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: and and the thing is too once when it's just 218 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: a couple, you know, it's it's much easier to manage 219 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: those relationships. But as After points out, kids are often 220 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: the tipping point, especially with that mother daughter dynamic. And 221 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: this was reported on um in Time magazine she found 222 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: that in all ethnic cultures included in her research and 223 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: across generations, child rearing was one of the most constant 224 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: and stressful sources of conflict between daughters in law and 225 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: mothers in law. And that ties in uh, perhaps issues 226 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: of vulnerability, issues of unsolicited advice of the mother in law, 227 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, stepping into maybe trying to discipline a child 228 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: when that might be out of bounds. Uh So, so 229 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: kids can understand, understandably complicate things. And there was a 230 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: paper that I found by Mary Claire more Seroics called 231 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: Getting Along with in in Laws, which was essentially a 232 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: meta analysis a lot on a lot of literature published 233 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: on in law relationships. And she points out that these 234 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: are odd relationships to begin with, the whole in law thing, 235 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: and they are described in very academic terms as triatic 236 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: and non voluntary, which essentially means you were asking for 237 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: tension like no one you know you you can't pick 238 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: your parents in law and uh and and parents can't 239 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: pick their their daughters and sons in law. And so 240 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: while that doesn't doom all of them to be terrible, 241 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: it does predict maybe some some bumps here and there. Yeah, 242 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean, particularly if you're coming from different backgrounds and 243 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: just totally different cultures and and or just simply your 244 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: your family did things differently. And plus you're building your 245 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: own family, whether you're having babies or puppies or kiddies 246 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: or whatever you're having, Like, the way that you do 247 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: things in your household is bound to be taking from 248 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: both of your backgrounds. And so one side or the 249 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: other side might think, well, that that's just not that's 250 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: not how I did it right and um, and that's 251 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: a good point because sometimes the parents in laws might perceive, uh, 252 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: lifestyles that are different from theirs, or child ruting tactics 253 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: that are different from from theirs as negative judgments on 254 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: how they raised their kids. Um, so that's something that 255 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: can also come up. And I can understand. I obviously 256 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: I do not have a mother in law at this point, 257 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: but having met boyfriends mother's it's always a nerve racking experience. 258 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: The first time, it takes me a long time to dress. 259 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: I consider my outfit carefully. You know, you want to 260 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: present the best possible side of yourself because you know 261 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: you you don't you want to create a harmonious relationship 262 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: with your partner's parents. If at all possible. There was 263 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: there was one relationship in college. I I don't think 264 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: he listens to the podcast because they could get awkward. 265 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: But there was one relationship in college where I met 266 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: his mother, and of course I was nervous going into 267 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: You're always nervous. She was so nice and so gracious, 268 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: and then I felt so bad when I broke up 269 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: with her son because she was already like, you know, 270 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: buying me things and giving me Christmas presents. Did she 271 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: ask you to call her mom? No? No, it didn't 272 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: get that far, but she did, Like I don't know. 273 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: I was at her house one time and I made 274 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: a comment about how nice all of her like cookware was. 275 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: I think she had like some fancy brand. It was 276 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: really nice. And she was like, well, you know, I 277 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: I hope one day to pass it down. And I 278 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: was just like, oh god, I'm in college, I'm twenty 279 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: years old, please. So so there is it is on 280 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: the there's a whole spectrum of in law type relationships well, 281 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: and funnily enough, the mother in law the daughter in law. 282 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: Attention has even been in Science e News in recent 283 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: months because there is a suggestion that this tension has 284 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: been around for are a long long time and might 285 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: be the evolutionary explanation for menopause, because what is it, Humans, 286 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: killer whales, and only a few other species actually go 287 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: through experience menopause for the for the females. So scientists 288 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: are still trying to figure out why why do we 289 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: have why do we have menopause? And then why do 290 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: women live a lot longer beyond that? Because evolutionarily, once 291 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: you're done being able to procreate, your useless, so die, 292 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: let's get out of here. Yeah, there's a finished study 293 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: that was published in the journal Ecology Letters in August. 294 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: They looked at and this is I think this is 295 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: really interesting because I'm a total genealogy nerd. They looked 296 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: at church birth, marriage, and death records from seventeen o 297 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: two to nineteen o eight and found that the chances 298 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: of children dying increased when mothers in law and daughters 299 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: in law gave birth around the same time, but it 300 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 1: was not true if mothers and daughters had children at 301 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: the same time, so children of older women uh. In 302 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: this in the mother in law daughter in law dynamic 303 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: children of older women UH, their survival rate dropped by 304 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: fifty children of the daughter in law, uh survival rate 305 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: dropped sixty six percent, And so why why is this happening? 306 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: And they think that perhaps in laws fought over food 307 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: for their children instead of cooperating as mothers and daughters 308 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: might Rayman again, no lasagna for those twins. Yeah, and 309 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: as to the this is more of a side note. 310 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 1: But as to the rational behind, why are the hypothesis 311 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: behind why women do live past menopause? Why we have grandmothers? 312 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: Essentially is uh the so called grand grandmother hypothesis claiming that, um, 313 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: they're useful. Grandmothers are very useful because they are an 314 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: additional resource to help with child rearing. And since they 315 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: can't have kids anymore than they competition. There's no competition, 316 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: they can allocate their resources. But unfortunately, allocating those resources 317 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: sometimes causes friction with the in laws. But we've talked 318 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: so much about uh, daughters in law and mothers in 319 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: law and yeah, and the father in law too, Like 320 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: it's clearly getting a pass, even though I'm sure he 321 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: can be troublesome sometimes too. But there is a chance, 322 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: according to one recent study, that maybe the son in 323 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: law is the key to everything. Yeah, Terry or bach Uh, 324 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: who's a psychologist and research professor at University of Michigan 325 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: did a twenty six year longitudinal study of married couples 326 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and found that when the husband reports feeling close to 327 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: his in laws, the marriage is more likely to last 328 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: a law in hall, which is that's good, that's a positive. 329 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: They found that the risk of divorce over the next 330 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: sixteen years was lower than for the group overall, but 331 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: the kink and the whole plan comes and that it's 332 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: opposite for the wife. When the wife reported being close 333 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to the in laws, the risk of divorce rose. Yeah, 334 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: and Orbach thinks that that has to do with, Uh, 335 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: the wife being closer to the in law parents increases 336 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: her sensitivity to their opinions on how they're living, how 337 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: they're raising their kids and all all of that. Yeah, 338 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: she's not doing the boundary setting and so over time, 339 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: Well it might be great at first, like, oh, she 340 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: wants to help out, or she's given me a piece 341 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: of advice or whatever. Eventually she might see that as meddling, right, 342 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: and I mean and and and The thing about the 343 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: the healthy relationship between the son in law and as 344 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: partners parents also makes a lot of sense because one 345 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: major complaint of people who report having a negative relationship 346 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: with an in law is that their partner, those people's 347 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, son or daughter don't do anything to to 348 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: mediate or validate the tension or anxiety that they're feeling 349 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: about the flak that they might be getting from an 350 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: in law. So so it really, I mean, it seems 351 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: like there's, uh, it's a support issue that needs to 352 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: be taken into account. But a son in law finding 353 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: also reminds me of the show Modern Family, just the 354 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: thought that one final TV reference, because I really like 355 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: how instead of harping on the mother in law trope, 356 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: they put all the emphasis on the husband Phil trying 357 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: to court his wife's father's affections, and it's it's great, 358 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: it's very charming and cute. So if you are a 359 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: daughter in law currently dealing with mother in law issues, 360 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: there's a bajillion points of advice out there. Um we 361 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: just kind of cold cold the high points out there. 362 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: You want to address problems directly, because in any relationship 363 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: in life, it's not good to stew over things, but 364 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: in a mother in law daughter in law relationship in particular, 365 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you're going to be stuck with this person 366 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: for a long time, So it's best that maybe as 367 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: a couple that might be helpful to you sit down 368 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: with your in laws and just maybe explain expectations, or 369 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: if things are already getting to a boiling point, just 370 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: sit her down and let her know that, you know, like, 371 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: for instance, if housekeeping isn't your priority, just let her know. 372 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: Because my my friend, for instance, she doesn't have so 373 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: much of a mother in law problem as she has 374 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: a grandmother in law problem. The grandmother like at the wedding, 375 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: was like, so you're gonna be cooking for my grandson 376 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: every night? Right, Jessica was just like, I don't cook. 377 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: I buy things. So there was already like that pressure 378 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: on her to do the cooking and the cleaning from 379 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: the AMA, and so she just had to tell her like, look, lady, 380 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: housekeeping cooking, it's not my thing. Also, you know, feel 381 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: free to let her not feel free, like gently let 382 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: her know that you don't really appreciate being judged and 383 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: that's how you feel. You know, remember all the talk 384 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: and advice about making about your feelings, not what they're doing. 385 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: You just want to try to to set boundaries in 386 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: a non confrontational way so that your whole relationship doesn't 387 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: just blow up. Well, and I think that all this 388 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: advice also needs to be directed to to the communication 389 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: between partners of if there is a troublesome because a 390 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: lot of times you're gonna know if you have a 391 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: parent who might not oh might make it challenging in law. Okay, 392 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: And those are conversations that also need to be had, uh, 393 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, in in private so that that person can 394 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: step up to bat for you if you need some 395 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: help setting boundaries. Um. And now flipping the script a 396 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: little bit for mothers in law. I mean the big 397 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: thing over and over again that a lot of these 398 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: articles that we found side was stop assuming that anybody 399 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: wants your advice. Yeah. I mean, yes, you have more 400 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: life experience than either your son or daughter in law 401 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: or whoever. Uh, but they don't always want to hear it. 402 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: I mean, they're not your child, so they don't really 403 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: have that feeling of like I want to learn from you, 404 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: you know necessarily, and so um, try try to maybe 405 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: maybe rain that in a little if possible. Um. And 406 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: I thought this was kind of cute. Over at a 407 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: r P uh, they had an article also advising mothers 408 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: in law and how to how to maintain a harmonious relationship. 409 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: In one of their pieces of advice was stay out 410 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: of the bedroom. Don't ever ask where are you going 411 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: to make me a grandma? Which I think that's a 412 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: that's a good way. Essentially, it's like keep the pressure off, 413 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: allow allow the couple to live their lives, to be 414 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: there if they need them. And also for you know, 415 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: people in the you know, the newly wed relationship. Also 416 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: if if you sense that vulnerability or jealousy from a parent, 417 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: maybe the son or daughter needs to step into reassure 418 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: them that their relationship isn't the parent child relationship is 419 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: still going to be intact, you know, but there's there's 420 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: just a new person to incorporate. Yeah, there's a good thing. Yeah, well, 421 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: a lot of advice out there does say that, like 422 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: if it's the sons, if it's the husband's parents who 423 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: are causing the issues, the husband needs to be the 424 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: messenger and vice versa. If it's the wife's parents causing issues, Like, 425 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: if the wife's parents are causing issues, it shouldn't be 426 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: the husband going to them and being like, you know, 427 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: one on one year, you're upsetting me. It should be 428 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: sort of a group therapy type of situation and when 429 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: in doubt, take a tip from Italy and move as 430 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: far away as possible. Put lots of football fields between you. Yeah, 431 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: I mean there's Skype. That's all I really need these days. 432 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: So now, I mean, especially as as two gals, sands 433 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: mothers in law at this point, I want to hear 434 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: from people out there. I know that there are mothers 435 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: in law listening. I know their daughters in law listening, 436 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: sons in law. I want to hear from all of 437 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: you about in law relationships mothers in law. Do you 438 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: do you think that the stereotype is true or do 439 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: you think that it is way overblown that you are 440 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: the monster in law? Thing needs to die as quickly 441 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,959 Speaker 1: as possible. Um, people who have dealt with in laws, Uh, 442 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: you have fantastic relationships? Is that you dread having to 443 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: go over to their houses for the holidays. Let us 444 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: know all of your in law tales, mom stuff at 445 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can email them or 446 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: you can't hit us up on Facebook as well, and 447 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: now our letters Wholariety. This is an email from Austin 448 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: about our friend Zone episode. He said that he wanted 449 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: to add another perspective. Uh. He conducted research on the 450 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: topic when working on the Single Guys Guide to Relationships 451 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: and says I was shocked not hear you talk about 452 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: same sex friend zones. You did mention that someone would 453 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: should accept it if they are interested in a friend 454 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: who does not share their sexual preference. The friend zone 455 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: being friends with someone were only one of the two 456 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: parties has a sexual attraction to each other, does exist 457 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: in same sex friends both sharing the same sexual preference. 458 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: For example, two gay male friends where one is attracted 459 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: to the other. Why do I bring this up? A 460 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: lot of focused was placed on the feminist movement leading 461 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: to male and female non sexual friendships. I pose that 462 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: although the term friend zone was a nineties sitcom created term, 463 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: the reason why it's spread in popularity was its clear 464 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: connection to the populace people relate to this term. Whatever 465 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: it is labeled, the friend zone exists in many forms 466 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: and there are simple ways to deal with it. Despite 467 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: this long message, this is not a complaint, more so 468 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: a bit of curiosity on my part, So thank you 469 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: for expressing your curiosity often. Yeah, and I think we 470 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: we did acknowledge the same sex friendship thing, but again, 471 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: it was a. It's a problem that comes up so 472 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: often where the research is so it's just not their 473 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: friend zone, it is uber hetero focus. Um. Well, I've 474 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: got one here, also on the friend zone. And this 475 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: is from Amy, and she writes, Dr Heidi reader from 476 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: Boise State University was one of your sources and was 477 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: my professor eight years ago for intro to communication. Um. 478 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: Her class was where I met my boyfriend slash best 479 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: friend slash frustrated object of affection. She gives his real name, 480 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to call him Tommy. He also happened to 481 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: be a good friend of a close high school friend, 482 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: so Tommy and I hung out a few times in 483 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: I dated his roommate for a while. When it didn't 484 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: work out with him, Tommy was there to comfort me 485 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: with that. Romantic thoughts entered my head, but I still 486 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: hung out in the friend zone until one night when 487 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: we were alone and he went in for a kiss. 488 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: Our romantic relationship had a lot of ups and downs 489 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: since then, including a marriage proposal that I assumed was 490 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: a joke because we were always more friends and lovers 491 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: despite my desire for more. Several times he talked to 492 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: me through our own breakup We always lived together until 493 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: this summer, when we both moved back to our hometowns, 494 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: which happened to be three hours apart. Since then, we've 495 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: spoken pretty rarely, sent a dozen texts a week, and 496 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: only spent one weekend together. He always says he's sorry 497 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: that he's so busy, which I know is true, but 498 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: I think he could do more than ten minutes or 499 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: so a week. I think he's put me back in 500 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: the friend zone, finding it easier than breaking it off 501 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: totally with me, and it's just assumed that I will 502 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: still be there for him when he decides he wants 503 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: to date again. I've decided that I deserved better and 504 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: have decided to cut him out of my life. But 505 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: this is very painful and lonely. He was my most 506 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: intimate and constant companion for seven and a half years, 507 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: and sometimes I feel like I'm cutting off my nose 508 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: despite my face. What do you think. I think that 509 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: you're making the right decision, Amy, because I think that 510 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to linger in the friend zone wondering 511 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: what Tommy wants when clearly you stated before that you 512 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: wanted more, to the point that you considered a marriage proposal. 513 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,479 Speaker 1: A joke. Obviously, you don't the foundational trust that he 514 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: does love you as much as you might love him. 515 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it's there. And I think in 516 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: those kind of situations it's best to slog through the pain, 517 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: the loneliness because you're going to find something better at 518 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: the end of it. Yeah. Well, we talked about in 519 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: that episode, um, the issue of people men or women 520 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: keeping people around kind of manipulating them, and how that's 521 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: completely unhealthy for everybody involved. And so even though it, 522 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, hurts so much to to cut loose this 523 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: person that was in your life for so long, um, 524 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: it's you're just making room once you heal from that, 525 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: you're just making room for for something healthier. And I 526 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: think the friend zone also is a different territory when 527 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: it's post breakup. If you feel like your friend zoned 528 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: after a breakup, it does that that sounds more like 529 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: someone just keeping you on the line just in case, 530 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: and that's not fair, you know, So treat treat yourself well, Amy, 531 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: and be gentle with yourself and move on, you know. 532 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: And I'm sure Tommy would probably come back, because Tommy's 533 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: usually come back life experience talking so that's all we've 534 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: got for you. Mom. Stuff at Discovery dot com is 535 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: where you can send your emails. You can find us 536 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: on Facebook and like is there, follow us on Twitter 537 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: at moms Stuff Podcasts, and you can tumble with us 538 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: as well at stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler 539 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: dot com. And if you'd like to get a little 540 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: bit smarter this week, you can head over to our website, 541 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: it's how stuff works dot com for more on this 542 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 543 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: dot com.