Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to work in Progress, Whips Marties. As you all know,
Speaker 1: I get particularly geeked when I get to interview journalists,
Speaker 1: and today's guest is an American broadcast journalist that I
Speaker 1: respect so much. She anchors the Sunday edition of World
Speaker 1: News Tonight, She anchors ABC News Live Prime, and is
Speaker 1: constantly traveling for ABC this year on the campaign trail.
Speaker 1: Today's guest is Lindsay Davis. She graduated from Worstown Friends
Speaker 1: School in New Jersey, earned a bachelor's degree from the
Speaker 1: University of Virginia, a master's degree in communication from New
Speaker 1: York University, and now travels the country making sure that
Speaker 1: we all know what's happening in our world. She's doing
Speaker 1: incredible election coverage this year for US, and in the
Speaker 1: absolute lack of spare time that she has, she has
Speaker 1: managed to write six children's books. Lindsay's latest book, Girls
Speaker 1: of the World Doing More than ever before, encourages children
Speaker 1: to use their voices, talents and intelligence to help the
Speaker 1: world and raise awareness of girls and all the amazing
Speaker 1: things that they do. And one of the things I
Speaker 1: really love about her latest book is. She says she
Speaker 1: was inspired to write it by her son. She wants
Speaker 1: to make sure that both girls and boys are on
Speaker 1: the receiving end of positive messaging about women and girls
Speaker 1: and all of their capabilities. I can't wait to hear
Speaker 1: how she managed to write this beautiful book that wrapped
Speaker 1: tears to my eyes while also making sure the rest
Speaker 1: of us know what's going on in our country. She's
Speaker 1: a superhero. Let's get to it, well, Lindsay, I'm just
Speaker 1: so thrilled to be talking to you today. I have
Speaker 1: like such a Annenberg student journalism crush on brains like yours,
Speaker 1: and I really appreciated taking the time.
Speaker 2: Thank you for talking with me, Sophie. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I have a bajillion questions I want
Speaker 1: to ask you, but I actually, rather than jumping into
Speaker 1: the things you're working on today, when guests come on
Speaker 1: the podcast, I like to ask them to take a
Speaker 1: little walk down memory lane with me, because I'm really
Speaker 1: curious to know when I sit across from someone as
Speaker 1: you know, accomplished as yourself, if from your vantage point today,
Speaker 1: if you were to look back at your childhood and
Speaker 1: you saw Lindsay at say ten years old, do you
Speaker 1: see the through line to your career and life today
Speaker 1: or were you a completely different kid.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think you know I was.
Speaker 3: He's really curious. I was really competitive. I was really eager.
Speaker 3: I've always been kind of a take the horn, the
Speaker 3: bull by the horns kind of from kid. Really now,
Speaker 3: I always thought early on there were kind of like
Speaker 3: three stages of my thought as career wise. Anyway, early on,
Speaker 3: I really thought I was going to be a lawyer.
Speaker 3: I really wanted to argue cases in court, and that
Speaker 3: was definitely what I was going to do. Then at
Speaker 3: some point, I guess early in college where my first
Speaker 3: year I went to University Virginia.
Speaker 2: My first year you had to declare a major.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh, I'm so competitive, that
Speaker 3: will it be difficult for me to have a job
Speaker 3: where a career where I'm winning and losing all the time,
Speaker 3: because I would I felt like I was going to
Speaker 3: take the losses too personally, and so I felt like,
Speaker 3: maybe that's not going to be good for balance. So
Speaker 3: that decided I wanted to become a psychologist. And then
Speaker 3: so when I had to declare my major, I majored
Speaker 3: in psychology, and while I was at University of Virginia,
Speaker 3: I studied abroad in London at University of Westminster my
Speaker 3: third year, second semester, and that was the first time
Speaker 3: I had fulfilled all of my college prerequisites for my major.
Speaker 3: So I was able to take anything that I wanted,
Speaker 3: and I took British literature among them, and I like
Speaker 3: a lot of writing classes.
Speaker 2: And while I was there.
Speaker 3: And this is the most unique epiphany for me that
Speaker 3: I think I've had.
Speaker 2: I was studying abroad.
Speaker 3: For well, I okay, so I was studying at Broad
Speaker 3: in London, but in high school I had a Spanish
Speaker 3: exchange student.
Speaker 2: I was visiting her while I was.
Speaker 3: Studying abroad, and I ended up for some reason in
Speaker 3: the apartment by myself and I was watching last LOUTI
Speaker 3: see us.
Speaker 2: I was watching the news in Spanish.
Speaker 3: At that point, I should have really understood Spanish really well,
Speaker 3: but I kind of. So it was kind of like
Speaker 3: Charlie Brown's mom, like what I was hearing like wah wah,
Speaker 3: wah wah. But there was just this revelation that washed
Speaker 3: over me and I was like, I want to do that,
Speaker 3: And they're like I used to give like like twice.
Speaker 3: This happened where I was giving a toast at a
Speaker 3: wedding and people from the journalism field came up to
Speaker 3: me and they were like, you.
Speaker 2: Should be a reporter. You have a great voice. You
Speaker 2: have such a good delivery and storytelling way about you. Wow.
Speaker 3: But I hadn't really thought about it at that time,
Speaker 3: But just in this particular moment, I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: I could kind of combine my interest and curiosity about
Speaker 3: people and telling their stories. And people had always said, oh,
Speaker 3: you have this great voice, you know, presenter voice. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I thought, oh, okay, I could combine those two
Speaker 3: as a journalist. And then from that day forward, I
Speaker 3: just started taking the necessary steps pursuing journalism. I feel like, now,
Speaker 3: it's so interesting. I kind of fell into it, like
Speaker 3: I didn't have this, you know. And I was co
Speaker 3: anchoring with David Muir recently, and I know from a
Speaker 3: child he would you know, cut out cardboard box and
Speaker 3: present as a TV in his living room and he
Speaker 3: knew early on, and I didn't have that same drive,
Speaker 3: you know, for this and passion for this industry early on.
Speaker 3: But once it hit me, it was just like, no,
Speaker 3: turning back and and ideally like this has been it
Speaker 3: could I couldn't have thought of a better industry now
Speaker 3: that I'm in it, Like this is ideal for me.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Well, that's another sort of totality, right,
Speaker 1: Like the the aha moment for you was really clarifying.
Speaker 3: It really was I And I guess I'm just that
Speaker 3: kind of person too, where I get a mindset and
Speaker 3: there is no like, I'm very focused. I love that
Speaker 3: and yeah, so it was just very clear, and it
Speaker 3: just combined a bunch of things. I love writing, I
Speaker 3: love public speaking, I love talking to people about their stories,
Speaker 3: and just now it's so ideal. And I never was
Speaker 3: going to be a good like office person or cubicle
Speaker 3: person who's just sitting in front of a computer all day.
Speaker 3: That just wouldn't have fit me very well. So it's
Speaker 3: ended up really working out.
Speaker 1: That's very cool. When you first started your career, were
Speaker 1: there are folks you really looked up to in the
Speaker 1: journalism world or did you have like a mentor in
Speaker 1: your particular office.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny many of my mentors never knew
Speaker 3: they were my mentors. So, you know, I once I
Speaker 3: decided that I really wanted to get into this. I
Speaker 3: really did start paying attention to Barbara Walters and Oprah.
Speaker 3: Carol Simpson was always kind of on the TV on
Speaker 3: the weekends in our house, and our local news was
Speaker 3: always on. And there are certain names of people who
Speaker 3: I really paid particular attention to. But I looked up
Speaker 3: to them, you know, in the way of how i'd
Speaker 3: watch like a Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walter's interview, how
Speaker 3: they their style. But I didn't know them, but I
Speaker 3: considered them to be mentors. Carol Simpson, now we actually
Speaker 3: have a relationship, which I think is so cool because
Speaker 3: she used to anchor World News on ABC News on
Speaker 3: the weekends and now I anchor on Sunday.
Speaker 2: So she'll text me after the shows and give me
Speaker 2: her reviews.
Speaker 3: And it's really really fun because she really was a
Speaker 3: special mentor for me, and so to have this full
Speaker 3: circle moment with her, to actually be able to pick
Speaker 3: her brain about things is just fantastic.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2: I know what you mean.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I think for me, the impact I experienced watching Oprah
Speaker 1: as a kid is really it's what led me to
Speaker 1: start a podcast. I thought that someone for an hour
Speaker 1: and ask questions like I just want to do that.
Speaker 1: I want to ask people about their lives. And I
Speaker 1: really think it was her influence for me that as
Speaker 1: this sort of particular vertical of media developed, made me go,
Speaker 1: oh that that that feels like my version of the
Speaker 1: thing I was the most inspired by as a kid.
Speaker 3: I have to imagine she influenced countless young people, right,
Speaker 3: and maybe older people too, you know, and she and
Speaker 3: it's so interesting when I look at the through line
Speaker 3: as you were mentioning before, for people like Barbara Walters,
Speaker 3: Oprah Winfrey, Carol Simpson, they all talk about how they
Speaker 3: heard so many no's, how it was like what they
Speaker 3: wanted to do was so out of the ordinary, impossible,
Speaker 3: and how all of them kind of fed off of
Speaker 3: that and that, you know. I mean Carol has talked
Speaker 3: about and wrote in her book, and so did Barbara
Speaker 3: Walters about you know, how they kind of well, Carol
Speaker 3: in particular said how she you know, ate bread, eate
Speaker 3: nose for breakfast, and that like yueled her and it
Speaker 3: was like you think I can't, I'm going.
Speaker 2: To prove you wrong.
Speaker 3: And yeah, watch, I just look at that, right, for
Speaker 3: all of them, and they're various, you know, different obstacles
Speaker 3: that they had, different hurdles that were unique to them.
Speaker 2: But I find them also inspiring.
Speaker 3: And to your point, I just think as so many
Speaker 3: people have been inspired by Oprah Winfrey, no doubt. I mean,
Speaker 3: she was in living rooms probably in a way that
Speaker 3: that most people were not.
Speaker 1: How do you think, because you know, you talk about
Speaker 1: these trailblazers, you see how their stories really connect to
Speaker 1: those of us in our generation who you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's a hobby side hustle like mine or a literal
Speaker 1: incredible journalistic career like yours. You know, we know what
Speaker 1: women kick to the doors open for us. And sometimes
Speaker 1: I wonder about, you know, being able to occupy these
Speaker 1: amazing seats. In a way, it adds some pressure about
Speaker 1: the way you've got to perform and the way you've
Speaker 1: got to show up. And I wonder very often for
Speaker 1: folks like yourself. You know, the news cycle now is
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. You're expected to be everywhere all
Speaker 1: the time, You're expected to be well versed on everything
Speaker 1: all the time, and you know, you're also really proud
Speaker 1: to be here, and are there moments where it also
Speaker 1: hits you the toughness of it, you know, the human
Speaker 1: side of how emotional some of these stories can be
Speaker 1: and how heavy the news can be. How do you
Speaker 1: find the way to sort of balance your experience as
Speaker 1: a human that's affected by all of this and your
Speaker 1: pride and intellect as a journalist who is ready to
Speaker 1: go all the time.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that there are kind of two
Speaker 3: different answers that I have for that, And one is
Speaker 3: it is so nice, like when we were covering the eclipse,
Speaker 3: just to talk about something that's refreshing and humanizes us
Speaker 3: all and gives us something to be awe struck about
Speaker 3: in a positive way where we're not covering you know,
Speaker 3: the mayhem and destruction and death and murder, war these
Speaker 3: you know, heavy issues. I always try and find a
Speaker 3: way to balance, and I'm taking your question in two
Speaker 3: different ways, but for me personally, because it is so heavy.
Speaker 3: I do think I like in because I get this
Speaker 3: a similar question often in that I.
Speaker 2: Like in what I do too.
Speaker 3: And maybe this is maybe an er doctor would say
Speaker 3: you're totally wrong, but I think I would imagine the
Speaker 3: first few times that they came in and treated their
Speaker 3: first person with like bullet wounds, or they lost their
Speaker 3: first patient, or you know, just saw the trauma in
Speaker 3: its most raw pure form that it was probably like, WHOA,
Speaker 3: this is heavy, this is a lot, but this is
Speaker 3: what I find up for and now let me put
Speaker 3: my head down and do the job. And I think
Speaker 3: after a while, it's not that you become desensitized to it,
Speaker 3: but you start to almost normalize. I guess that this
Speaker 3: is the baseline of my job and this is what
Speaker 3: I can expect every day, so you're not like blown
Speaker 3: away by it, right, but it's still there are still
Speaker 3: stories that stick with me and people I remember years later,
Speaker 3: and those times where you are really, for me choking
Speaker 3: back the tears, you know, of a mom who's you know,
Speaker 3: lost their child or you know. I mean, there's so
Speaker 3: many different scenarios I can I can bring up that
Speaker 3: I really find touching in and a lot of it
Speaker 3: for me. I have a son who's now ten, and
Speaker 3: when I became a mother, things started hitting differently, you know,
Speaker 3: school shootings, just these moments that at one point where
Speaker 3: it was like it's about them, and in a way
Speaker 3: it I think makes me a better reporter.
Speaker 2: When you realize it's about us. And I started kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, feeling that.
Speaker 3: That's really beautiful, and the other direction I would say
Speaker 3: with regard to women in particular and doing a job
Speaker 3: and realizing there's so much on the line I have
Speaker 3: to go back to and this is something that's really nice.
Speaker 3: Like I was preparing, we had gotten up to the
Speaker 3: day before of doing a presidential debate that I was
Speaker 3: going to moderate this year, and it ended up being
Speaker 3: canceled because Nikki Hali had decided she wasn't going to
Speaker 3: debate Ron DeSantis anymore if Donald Trump wasn't going to
Speaker 3: be on the stage, And Carol Simpson texted me simply,
Speaker 3: you know, I know, and we then that started a
Speaker 3: conversation because there are very few people who would know
Speaker 3: in that moment, like what it's like to prepare in
Speaker 3: such a way for something that then doesn't happen when
Speaker 3: you were feeling a lot of pressure. Because we had
Speaker 3: talked before about when she moderated her first presidential debate,
Speaker 3: she was the first woman of color to ever do so,
Speaker 3: and she talked about how she had women who were
Speaker 3: like reaching out to her saying, don't let us down,
Speaker 3: and she said, and then she had black people who
Speaker 3: were reaching out to her like don't let us down,
Speaker 3: and she said in some ways she felt like it
Speaker 3: wasn't about like she was like just for me on
Speaker 3: a personal level as an individual, I wanted to succeed.
Speaker 2: But now I had a whole race.
Speaker 3: That was on top of me, and I had a
Speaker 3: whole gender that was you know, I was carrying this week,
Speaker 3: and it can feel like a burden.
Speaker 2: I think of the two bees.
Speaker 3: Really, it's like half burden, half blessing, right, because it's
Speaker 3: a gift to be able to be the face or
Speaker 3: at the forefront of you know whatever, or be the
Speaker 3: first in some way. But there's also many times I
Speaker 3: think when you're a minority, and that might be by race,
Speaker 3: or gender, or religion a number of different ways, or sexuality.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes you feel like, gosh, if I feel
Speaker 3: they're going to close the door for the next person, right,
Speaker 3: And as a black woman, you know, I do feel
Speaker 3: that weight still that if I somehow am a disappointment.
Speaker 2: It's not just for Lindsey Davis.
Speaker 3: It's not just for the Davis family, but it is
Speaker 3: for you know, perhaps the black community, perhaps for women.
Speaker 2: And so there is a difference.
Speaker 3: It hits a little differently, and I'm always mindful of that,
Speaker 3: and that's why it is nice to have, you know,
Speaker 3: going back to your original point about the kind of mentor,
Speaker 3: it is nice to be able to commiserate and have
Speaker 3: a conversation with someone who's been there and who.
Speaker 2: Knows, you know.
Speaker 3: And that's why it felt so good just to get
Speaker 3: her text when she said, you know, I know because
Speaker 3: she did. And there are very few people sometimes who
Speaker 3: can relate. And so sorry for the long winded two
Speaker 3: direction answer, but it kind of just struck those two
Speaker 3: chords with me.
Speaker 1: Now, I really love it and I appreciate it. I
Speaker 1: think the specificity of experience is something that as I've aged,
Speaker 1: I've realized is so important. And you know, I saw
Speaker 1: it back in the day when my mom was ill.
Speaker 1: And it's like her doctor said, make sure you have
Speaker 1: a support group, and she said, I have great friends,
Speaker 1: and he said, no, no, no, you need a support
Speaker 1: group of other people that are also on chemo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because nobody knows how it makes you feel like somebody
Speaker 1: who's also honest. And I've seen that with you know,
Speaker 1: friends that are pregnant at the same time with their
Speaker 1: first babies, and I've seen it with friends in my
Speaker 1: friend group going through divorces, like you need people who
Speaker 1: are going through what you're going through. And when you
Speaker 1: are often the first or one of one in a
Speaker 1: room like you have been, and in so many ways,
Speaker 1: you need those women who did their version before you
Speaker 1: to help you process those feelings. You know, that's such
Speaker 1: a real thing because you should just be able to
Speaker 1: show up as lindsay, as a journalist, but you are
Speaker 1: showing up as a woman, as a woman of color
Speaker 1: like that. There are these added identities because of histories
Speaker 1: of oppression that many of us have gone through in
Speaker 1: our own ways that change your experience. Right, It's different
Speaker 1: for you than it was for Walter Cronkite.
Speaker 2: It just is right, right, right, that's really that's.
Speaker 1: So cool that you have somebody who even knew to
Speaker 1: send you that message.
Speaker 3: Right, And I can't agree with you more And that
Speaker 3: I was thinking when you were talking about with your
Speaker 3: mom and going through chemo. When I had my son,
Speaker 3: I ended up with preclamsy of the day that I
Speaker 3: went into labor, and I had not had a high
Speaker 3: blood pressure during the whole pregnancy, but that day it
Speaker 3: was an issue. And my blood pressure still wasn't going
Speaker 3: going down even after I delivered, and they had to
Speaker 3: keep me in the hospital extra time, and I ended
Speaker 3: up There was a male coworker I had whose wife
Speaker 3: had had a baby maybe a few months before mine,
Speaker 3: and she had had preeclampsia, and that was the first
Speaker 3: time I had heard of it or knew anybody to
Speaker 3: have it. So I reached out to him and I
Speaker 3: was just like, I feel like everything that happens to me,
Speaker 3: like I'm looking it up and WebMD is not your friend,
Speaker 3: you know, because it's like anything that happened, I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I'm about to die.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything on WebMD leads to cancer.
Speaker 2: It's bad.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I have to give so much credit to
Speaker 3: his wife, who really was like Lindsay, I felt the
Speaker 3: same way, like cause I was saying I really wanted
Speaker 3: to get out of the hospital and as Suda, now
Speaker 3: I'm home, I feel like I should be back in
Speaker 3: the hospital, and I just I don't know, I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm about to die and I'm going to stroke out.
Speaker 3: And she was like, we did the same thing. I
Speaker 3: told Jay, stop the car, turn around, let's go back
Speaker 3: to the hospital. But anyway, I was kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 3: so it's okay that I feel crazy, It's okay that
Speaker 3: I'm feeling, you know, having these thoughts, and she had
Speaker 3: that empathy to say, yeah, I was there, and I
Speaker 3: just I just so agree with what you're saying. And
Speaker 3: many people, you know, I've talked about before having a
Speaker 3: preclamcy and then as a result that postpartum anxiety and
Speaker 3: people were.
Speaker 2: Like, well, why are you sharing it?
Speaker 3: And I was like, because someone else sharing it like
Speaker 3: saved me. And so I want other people to again
Speaker 3: to try to kind of normalize. And I think that
Speaker 3: that's so important, as you pointed out, just in all
Speaker 3: facets of our life, to know like you're not the
Speaker 3: first person to go through this. You know, somebody else
Speaker 3: has felt this way and done this and had this reaction,
Speaker 3: and it's it is so reassuring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really special. We'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1: But here's a word from our sponsors. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think people can forget with people that are in
Speaker 1: positions like you look at you as being like top
Speaker 1: of your game, top of the world. Really you know,
Speaker 1: you know, probably unaffected and you're like, no, no, I
Speaker 1: still need a whole support system, maybe even more because
Speaker 1: you're going through these things while also shouldering this career,
Speaker 1: this responsibility. But you know, moderating presidential debates, how do
Speaker 1: you even prepare for something like that obviously, whether it
Speaker 1: you know, gets pulled as an event or not. Like,
Speaker 1: what what is that process like for you as a journalist?
Speaker 1: Where do you even begin?
Speaker 3: Well, we have a great team, and for fortunately, I
Speaker 3: had done it twice before, so I would say that
Speaker 3: first time I was doing it, I was just like
Speaker 3: all nerves, you know, but but I just preparation was
Speaker 3: the only thing that could kind of get me out
Speaker 3: of that. And so I all of a sudden on
Speaker 3: that day, I mean I had great I had researched
Speaker 3: and and I just had like a calm and a
Speaker 3: confidence first day that I did it back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: so I felt like this now was going to be
Speaker 3: my third time, and it just felt like, okay, now
Speaker 3: we we we know we so one are the topics
Speaker 3: that we really want to cover? How are we going
Speaker 3: to divide it up between the other moderators? And then
Speaker 3: it's kind of like just having people who will do
Speaker 3: some really deep dives on research on let's say we're
Speaker 3: talking about abortion or gun control, Like, what is like,
Speaker 3: give me every comment, every statement that that person has
Speaker 3: ever made about abortion, Tell me everything they've ever said
Speaker 3: about gun control. And that way, you know, we can say, well,
Speaker 3: you know, five years ago you said this, but now
Speaker 3: on the campaign trail you said this.
Speaker 2: How do you square those two thoughts? You know?
Speaker 3: So a lot of it is just kind of really
Speaker 3: knowing somebody's stance and maybe how it's shifted over time,
Speaker 3: and just really just kind of trying to pin down
Speaker 3: someone's belief somebody's you know, point of view.
Speaker 1: When you think about all these interviews that you've you know,
Speaker 1: prepped and researched and been so ready for, is there
Speaker 1: one it could be presidential or otherwise? Is there one
Speaker 1: that stands out for you as being one of the
Speaker 1: most memorable, uh moments of your career?
Speaker 2: Again, I have such a hard time just giving you
Speaker 2: one answer. I know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like asking a parent to pick
Speaker 1: their favorite child or something.
Speaker 3: You're like, what, well, well, one thing that I'll say
Speaker 3: there there are two series that I one that I
Speaker 3: created and one that I brought back revived from Charlie
Speaker 3: Gibson and Peter Jennings. So theirs that they had done
Speaker 3: years ago was called who Is and it sat they
Speaker 3: sat down with all of the presidential candidates and they
Speaker 3: wouldn't ask any political questions. So it was really more about, like,
Speaker 3: so tell me what it was like being a middle child.
Speaker 3: You know, tell me what when you were in college
Speaker 3: you aspired to be. You know, like, how did you
Speaker 3: know when you were first falling in love with your wife?
Speaker 3: You know, it was just like getting to know the
Speaker 3: character rather than their politics, because we all knew kind
Speaker 3: of for the most part, we know kind of what
Speaker 3: people think about guns and abortion and war, whatever it
Speaker 3: might be.
Speaker 2: So this was really getting to know the person.
Speaker 3: And so we had a chance to do that this
Speaker 3: past election cycle and that was really interesting to me
Speaker 3: because I really like to just get to know people,
Speaker 3: and so that's an overarching general. And then one that
Speaker 3: I had done years ago, the running mates and I
Speaker 3: only talked to the spouses. I sat down and did
Speaker 3: interviews because this is the person who knows them best,
Speaker 3: and you know, you're not just getting like the sound
Speaker 3: by the stump speech or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, you're really like.
Speaker 3: What is he like as a dad or what is
Speaker 3: she like as mom, you know, or what you know,
Speaker 3: you're just kind of getting that those intimate details about
Speaker 3: a person, but to answer in a specific way, and
Speaker 3: just because I have a political mind still on this
Speaker 3: part reticular moment, one thing I thought was fascinating and
Speaker 3: this interview I did was March of twenty twenty with
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton. So it was after she was, you know,
Speaker 3: no longer in contention for president. It was all over,
Speaker 3: she wasn't gonna run anymore, and she, you know, and
Speaker 3: Donald Trump had just become president, and my husband and
Speaker 3: I are in the process of running a half marathon
Speaker 3: in each state, and right before it just so happened
Speaker 3: because I was interviewing her on a Monday, and I
Speaker 3: think that Saturday we had run in Little Rock, Arkansas.
Speaker 3: Little Rock, Arkansas is where Bill Clinton's library is and
Speaker 3: the airport is named after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2: So while we're getting.
Speaker 3: Situated and everything, you know, which is can be my
Speaker 3: favorite part of the interview is before we start the
Speaker 3: official interview and while we're getting miked up and the
Speaker 3: lights are getting adjusted, you know, you're just kind of
Speaker 3: getting an know the person, just very the introduction. And
Speaker 3: so I was telling her, you know, I was just
Speaker 3: in Arkansas and saw the library and this and that,
Speaker 3: and she was asking, well, what brought you there? I
Speaker 3: was telling her about the half marathon and then it
Speaker 3: was over, and you know, you always have the handlers
Speaker 3: who are pulling somebody away and like, okay, that's it,
Speaker 3: no more time. And what I thought was so fascinating
Speaker 3: about Hillary Clinton was her handlers were trying to whisker
Speaker 3: her away. And then she just sat there and said, so,
Speaker 3: where's your next half marathon? And I was saying, you know, oh,
Speaker 3: it's it's in Denver, Colorado, and she said, you know,
Speaker 3: if you can, you should get there a little early
Speaker 3: because the altitude you might have difficult running. And the
Speaker 3: fascinating thing about it wasn't the interview with her, It
Speaker 3: was her as a human being, because I always it
Speaker 3: was kind of so known that she had struggled, at
Speaker 3: least from perception anyway, as like she wasn't this like
Speaker 3: human person, you know, And I found this really striking.
Speaker 3: And this is politics aside. This was not about again
Speaker 3: her stance on whatever. It was just like she was
Speaker 3: very maternal, she was very interested, she was very engaging.
Speaker 2: She has this great.
Speaker 3: Laugh and funny, and I felt like she never was
Speaker 3: able to get that across to the American people. So
Speaker 3: that was just as far as political interviews, that was
Speaker 3: one that came to mind as one that stood out
Speaker 3: to me after where I was like, Wow, she's really
Speaker 3: such a human and I think that we never many
Speaker 3: felt we never got to see that side of her.
Speaker 1: M h, Yeah, that's really special because she is. She's
Speaker 1: so kind and funny, and you realize people don't really know, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that does speak to the immense pressure
Speaker 1: particularly put on women, and especially women with ambition.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you know, there's such.
Speaker 1: An incredible amount of judgment. And it makes me curious
Speaker 1: about your latest project, which isn't about you know, your
Speaker 1: news career. You're writing children's books and you wrote this
Speaker 1: beautiful book called Girls of the World, doing more than
Speaker 1: ever before. And I find it really special that you
Speaker 1: talk about how important it is not only to make
Speaker 1: sure girls see themselves as capable, but to show boys
Speaker 1: that girls are also capable. And so do you think
Speaker 1: that your own journey as a woman in this sort
Speaker 1: of space of rarefied air, and you know, having interviewed
Speaker 1: women like her who faced you know, gender oppression, Like,
Speaker 1: has all of that led to you wanting to write
Speaker 1: this book or was it something else that inspired you altogether?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really kind of a number of things
Speaker 3: that came into play. This is my six children's book.
Speaker 3: My son had really, in one way or another, inspired
Speaker 3: the first five, and indirectly, I guess I could say
Speaker 3: that he inspired this one because I started realizing early on,
Speaker 3: because you know, he's only ten now, but he has
Speaker 3: very definite ideas of that's for girls, this is for boys.
Speaker 3: There is a separation of church and state. There are boxes,
Speaker 3: and and that was interesting because that wasn't something that
Speaker 3: I felt.
Speaker 2: We were talking about at home.
Speaker 3: I mean, this was even like I remember taking him
Speaker 3: to a birthday party when he was maybe four, and
Speaker 3: it was a little girl's party and at the end
Speaker 3: she gave out party bags that were pink and purple,
Speaker 3: and even though there was really cool stuff inside, he
Speaker 3: was like, I don't want that bag. Pink and purple,
Speaker 3: those are for those are for girls, like and he
Speaker 3: just has had and over the years, and I've kind
Speaker 3: of tried to push back and challenge him on you know,
Speaker 3: where do you think, like why do you think that
Speaker 3: that you're never gonna cook.
Speaker 2: You don't have to learn how to cook.
Speaker 3: That that's for girls, that's for your wife to do,
Speaker 3: you know, Like huh, But I think that that's so
Speaker 3: in society, and boys get affirmation every day and in
Speaker 3: a way that girls don't. And just to play off
Speaker 3: of that particular word that you use with regard to
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton, ambition, I think that that's like a dirty
Speaker 3: word when it's applied to a woman.
Speaker 2: But for a man.
Speaker 3: It's great for a man to be ambitious, you know,
Speaker 3: but a woman who has drive and you know, she
Speaker 3: can be trued it's like she's too bossy. You know,
Speaker 3: it's negative. And so I really it became important to
Speaker 3: me to have positive associations with girls from an early
Speaker 3: Age's plant these seeds of positivity with let's be bold,
Speaker 3: let's be strong, let's be brave, and those are all
Speaker 3: words that we tend to hear associated with boys. And
Speaker 3: I just felt that my own parents were able to
Speaker 3: do a really great job in pouring into me this
Speaker 3: belief that I could do whatever I wanted in life.
Speaker 3: And somehow I believed them, you know, I just was
Speaker 3: There was never a consideration that I couldn't. And I
Speaker 3: just feel that there are a lot of parents who
Speaker 3: want their kids to have that same thing, and they
Speaker 3: may be pouring it into them, or they may not.
Speaker 3: You know, perhaps this is for the child who isn't
Speaker 3: hearing this anywhere else, isn't getting it anywhere else.
Speaker 2: Or it's for the child who this is just going
Speaker 2: to be a reinforcement.
Speaker 3: But either way, I just think that it's so necessary,
Speaker 3: and it's even like I said, for my own son,
Speaker 3: it's important for him to read a book like this.
Speaker 2: I think that people see this book and think.
Speaker 3: It's entirely for girls, and I would say, you know,
Speaker 3: it's just like for all of my books.
Speaker 2: Leading up to this, this is super inclusive.
Speaker 3: I mean, and we have girls who are all different colors,
Speaker 3: all different you know, two who are in wheelchairs, one
Speaker 3: who has a prosthetic leg, different religions. It's so important
Speaker 3: and this has always been for me to be inclusive
Speaker 3: in my books. But I often didn't think that we
Speaker 3: are as a society so quick to we want to
Speaker 3: digest and understand things by putting them into boxes. There's
Speaker 3: not a lot of gray in society, and so like
Speaker 3: my first few books, for example, had black and brown characters,
Speaker 3: and I think that quite often people thought, oh, well,
Speaker 3: these are just four black and brown kids, and it
Speaker 3: couldn't be further from the truth because quite often I think,
Speaker 3: you know, one for me growing up and for my
Speaker 3: own son, we have books with all different colors of characters,
Speaker 3: you know, And I think that that's important, especially for
Speaker 3: people who live in an area that may not be
Speaker 3: so diverse.
Speaker 2: I think that one.
Speaker 3: Easy way to dispel all these isms that we have,
Speaker 3: whether it's sexism or racism, is to put.
Speaker 2: A book or a toy, a doll in a child's.
Speaker 3: Hands of somebody who doesn't look like them, so that
Speaker 3: it's not unfamiliar. So because quite often we fear what
Speaker 3: we don't know. And anyway, it's another very long question.
Speaker 3: I'm reading that I'm super long winned because you know
Speaker 3: what Soviet like. Rarely am I. I'm always one asking
Speaker 3: the questions. I'm a prayer that I'm answering questions. And
Speaker 3: now I guess I have all of this pent up
Speaker 3: to put out there into the world. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: just wanted girls to have that affirmation and not you know,
Speaker 3: when you hear like, oh you throw like a girl
Speaker 3: like that's a bad thing. But boys will be boys
Speaker 3: and that's an okay. That's like anything that they do
Speaker 3: is acceptable, and I just felt like it was kind
Speaker 3: of time to change that.
Speaker 1: I love that. And now a word from our sponsors
Speaker 1: who make this show possible, and I think you know
Speaker 1: words as you're saying, like ambitious. I loved that when
Speaker 1: you talked about reflecting on your childhood one of the
Speaker 1: words you used to describe yourself was competitive. Because a
Speaker 1: competitive nature is also something that's really judged in women
Speaker 1: and in girls. And I mean, we've seen it even
Speaker 1: with the sort of hysteria around some of our greatest athletes,
Speaker 1: the Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark narratives out in the world.
Speaker 1: I was like, Hello, these women are gladiators. Let them
Speaker 1: be these top of class athletes and respect them for it,
Speaker 1: you know. And I it was astonishing to me that
Speaker 1: college age women had to say we don't have but
Speaker 1: we are competing when we're on the court, Like y'all
Speaker 1: know that, right. I was like, this is a trip
Speaker 1: that they are having to give people a lesson in
Speaker 1: women's athletic ability while they're in the midst of march. Men,
Speaker 1: it's like, are we really doing this? We're really acting
Speaker 1: like these girls aren't competitive out there.
Speaker 3: We never do that with males. I mean, can you
Speaker 3: think of the anonymous scenario.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 3: We're you know, we're nevitting these these two males against
Speaker 3: each other in this way, and it seems like it's
Speaker 3: a false narrative, you know, when you hear the two
Speaker 3: of them talk about.
Speaker 1: It, absolutely, and I think it's important to hear them
Speaker 1: speak on it, just like I think it's so important
Speaker 1: for you to talk about the fact that you wrote
Speaker 1: this book because of what you saw, and that, yes,
Speaker 1: the book is for little girls, but it's for little
Speaker 1: boys too. It's so important that we begin to see
Speaker 1: each other as more whole beings, capable of all sorts
Speaker 1: of ambition and feeling and emotion. And I do think
Speaker 1: the younger we yet to learn that, the less we
Speaker 1: have to unlearn in our adulthood.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Yes, I've thought that with regard to again, all
Speaker 2: the isms.
Speaker 3: Kids don't start out with these ideas of what's good
Speaker 3: and what's better and what's different.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I always think of my own son when he would
Speaker 3: go off to summer camp and he's meeting kids for
Speaker 3: the first time. He would never come home and say,
Speaker 3: tell me somebody's race or religion or viewpoint. It was like,
Speaker 3: they love legos too, they love.
Speaker 2: Star Wars too.
Speaker 3: Kids often think about what we have that unites us,
Speaker 3: rather than as adults. I think we often think about
Speaker 3: what we have that separates and makes us different.
Speaker 2: And kids look with better eyes.
Speaker 3: You know, And it's something that I think that that
Speaker 3: adults have to try and rethink and get back to
Speaker 3: the basics of just that pure way of looking at
Speaker 3: the people around us and the world around us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that means girls of the world is for
Speaker 1: all of us too, not just the kiddos.
Speaker 2: In our exactly.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I'm always mindful of the parents who are
Speaker 3: reading to the kids that there's going to be a
Speaker 3: good takeaway message for them as well.
Speaker 1: Indeed, as you look at your year ahead, and in
Speaker 1: particular for you as an incredible journalist, I imagine the
Speaker 1: election is a big part of it. What feels like
Speaker 1: your work in progress for twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Four, You know, I really need to find more balance.
Speaker 3: That is something that I've really been trying to be
Speaker 3: extra mindful of this year, in particular because you know,
Speaker 3: I'm realizing as we just celebrated my son's tenth birthday
Speaker 3: that you know, in theory, like in eight years from now,
Speaker 3: he's going to be in college and out of the house,
Speaker 3: and so we've actually had more time with him living
Speaker 3: with us then you know, remains on the clock for us,
Speaker 3: and it's just going so fast that I really want
Speaker 3: to be more present for him and for me in turn.
Speaker 3: I think quite often I have a hard time saying no,
Speaker 3: and that is something I'm trying to, you know, get
Speaker 3: better at, just to not cram my life. I tend
Speaker 3: to put on this cape and try and be superwoman
Speaker 3: and get everything done and fit it all in, and
Speaker 3: then everything just ends up being rush rush, rush, and
Speaker 3: task task task and cross it all up and and
Speaker 3: so that's my my work in progress is getting a
Speaker 3: little more breathing room into my life and and primarily
Speaker 3: being able to, uh, you know, go for the little
Speaker 3: runs that I like that clear my head and and.
Speaker 2: Go to the school activities and and really just be
Speaker 2: more present.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, a little breathing ass. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I hope we get to do
Speaker 1: this again.
Speaker 2: This was fun. I hope that I didn't you know.
Speaker 2: Give you too many answers. No, you're perfect, thank you,
Speaker 2: thank you for the time.