WEBVTT - Growing Resistance to Taking First-Generation Coronavirus Vaccine 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.320 It's Wednesday, September. I'm Oscar Ramires from the Daily Dive 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:08.840 podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. A 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.680 coronavirus vaccine may be on its way soon, but that 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.440 doesn't mean that people are ready to take it. According 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.920 to an Axios Ipsos poll, six of people say they 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.080 don't want to take a first generation vaccine, in part 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.639 because of how it's been politicized. Margaret Talive, Politics and 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.760 White House editor at Axios joins us for how resistance 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.360 to taking a COVID vaccine is growing. Thanks for joining us, Margaret, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.200 Thanks so much for having me. I wanted to talk 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.479 about the vaccine. You know a lot of people have 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.640 made this the kind of final thing. Once the vaccine comes, 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.760 everything will be back to normal. We'll be able to 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.880 get our lives going again. But there's been a lot 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.120 of kind of conflict with the vaccine. How soon is 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.200 it gonna come as it being pushed out too early 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.920 and they're at Axio. So you guys have been conducting 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.040 regular polls on people's attitudes towards the vaccine, and in 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.080 your latest pole, it seems that there's a resistance growing 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.839 to the vaccine. A larger share of Americans are saying 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.000 that they're not as eager to try the first generation 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.920 coronavirus vaccine. Margot tell us a little bit about what 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.800 the polls are saying about this. We have been measuring 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.200 since March people's attitudes towards the pandemic and how it's 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.080 been impacting them. And this is everything from like how's 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.240 your mental health too, are you going out to eat? 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.400 And more recently we've been including some questions about the 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.240 vaccine or the promise of a vaccine, And what we've 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.400 seen is, over the course of the past month, dramatic 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.720 and consistent and pretty unmistakable decline. We asked several questions, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.240 but I think the most important one is are you 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.360 likely to take a first generation version of the COVID 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.280 nineteen vaccine as soon as it becomes available? Right, because 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.280 it's like, oh, we're all waiting for the vaccine, so 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.760 it's available, great, are you going to take it? And 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.760 we've seen across the board overall a decline from the 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.880 mid forties now to thirty percent of Americans saying maybe 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.400 learn to take it. But look at this really steep 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:04.480 decline among Democrats from the mid fifties down to and 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.000 decline among Republicans from the load of mid forties down 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.720 to thirty three percent, So a really consistent decline across 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.480 party lines. And this is important for a couple of reasons. One, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.960 Democrats and Republicans almost never behaved the same way about 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.200 anything to do with a coronavirus, and we've seen this 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.960 month after month after months. If there's a split, the 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.280 most clear split is almost always likely to be along 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.560 part of the lives, but the other is a very 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.680 interesting cross trend. There's another number that we haven't mentioned yet, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.760 and it's independence. If you were an Independent, you were 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.720 around forty percent likely to say you would take this 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.160 first generation vaccine as soon it's available as of late 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.760 August months ago. Now that number has barely declined it all, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.800 from forty percent to forty three percent. So Democrats, Independence, 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.560 and Republicans are all at about the same place right now, 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.880 less than half willing to touch a first generations vaccine 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.600 when it becomes available. But the Independence have barely moved 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.720 it all. And we asked ourselves in our posters, why 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.960 why would that be true? And the best conclusion that 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.919 we have at this point, and we'll have data to 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:09.800 follow up on this in the leaks to come, but 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.120 at this point it looks like it's largely politically druven. Yes, 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.440 there are some scientific concerns of scientists warning let's be patient, 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:19.280 you know, we don't want to rush things, But it's 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.920 really that it's been politicized. If you look at what 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.480 else has happened over the same period of a month. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.679 If the President Trump, right at the end of the convention, 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.080 began putting out this idea that a vaccine could be 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.880 ready before the end of the year, and as the 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.079 days went on he began to say he could even 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:38.080 be ready before the election, then there was a pushback scientists, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.960 public officials saying, no way, no way, the vaccine got 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.200 to be in the American public's hands, and probably not 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.520 even ready ready before the end of the year, much 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.280 less before the election. And that is precisely the period 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.640 of time where we have seen people's interest in being 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.800 the guinea pigs on this decline, and we have so 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.680 much news around the vaccine and development. All that happened 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.680 what you just described, and then at the same time 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.320 Astra Zeneca put a hold on their thing because there 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.440 might have been some adverse effects. So people are hearing 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.640 all this stuff and you know, they're like, I want 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.760 to pump the brakes on it. My question is, I'm 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.480 looking at it as far as people want to reopen, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.560 people want to get back to it. But these people 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.160 that don't want to get these first generation vaccines, all 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.359 that is is going to put delays and delays and 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.840 delays on things. So you know, it's already gonna be 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.279 a few months after a vaccine is approved before it 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.760 can get out to the general public, let's say. So 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.400 everything just kind of pushes things down the line. It 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.600 makes me question, are people more comfortable just getting coronavirus 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.159 naturally and going through it then going through the vaccine route. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.520 You know, it gets very confusing. That is a behavioral 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.440 question that's completely unbounded by science. What we know is 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.320 that when people actually get it, or when people have 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.680 proximity to someone who got it much less someone who 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.560 became very ill or died, their understanding of the disease 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.960 really changes, right, or the virus really changes. It's one 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:56.880 thing to think about it in the abstract. Oh, it's 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.720 just like the flu. It's not that big deal. It's 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.320 another thing if you of you know, had a loved 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.760 one beyond a ventilator or recover and survive and then 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.640 not be the same like four months again. And so 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.200 this is happening as our children are going back to 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.360 school or learning remote. Everyone knows who has a kid 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.760 that learning and remote is kind of a disaster, but 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.400 it's like the best you can do if your kid 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.800 goes back to school. Our poll found it's heard of 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.520 the people whose kids had returned to school already have 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.680 had reports like within a couple of weeks of COVID 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.440 illness or scares inside their school district. And so we 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.640 know that mask us is really important for reducing your 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.760 susceptibility or your ability to spread it, right, we know that. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.760 But from a political perspective, the president has sent such 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.560 mixed messaging on masks that he has really shifted to 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.960 a vaccine message and this notion that just trust me, like, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.360 you know, we'll get through the election and by then 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.560 there would be a vaccine. And what we see is 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.919 that people are not treating a vaccine like it's a 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.120 silver bullet, like between a quarter and a third of 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:56.920 the people in our survey, so they didn't want to 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.200 take it at all. Forget about how quickly they don't 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.120 want to take it. That's not the majority, but it's 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.320 an important number if you're looking for anything approximating the 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.000 sort of hurd immunity that people have talked about. So 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.680 if you can't inoculate enough people, what would be the 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.040 impact on society. But beyond that, it's these two trends 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.640 that you talked about. On the one hand, everybody wants 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.240 to get back to quote normal life, and on the 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.960 other hand, there are real scientific barriers that are going 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.000 to slow that moment where we can get back to normal. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.440 And then beyond there is a real question of public trust. 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.280 How do you get enough of the public and people 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.839 are resistance the idea of taking vaccines for very different reasons. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.280 If you actually unpack some of these cross currents, you 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.799 might not trust vaccines in general. You might not trust 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.440 pharmaceutical companies. You might not trust President Trump, And you 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.760 like the idea of the vaccine until he said it's 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.440 going to be ready, and then now you're like, oh, 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:51.039 I don't want it, or the other way around. You 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.520 may put a great deal of trust in what President 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.000 Trump says and be more likely to take a vaccine 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.120 if he says that it's safe, and so we know 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.800 that the numbers add up to a situation of real 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.680 uncertainty if you are a government official or a public 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.600 health official and you want science and reason and consensus 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.480 to guide the day. But after that, that's about all 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.120 we know. Everybody wants it to end. Nobody's clear on 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.880 how to get there or what to do for it. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.400 But I mean, you know, we'll see once the vaccine 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.360 gets approved, and then we'll go from there and we'll 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.600 see how many people actually do come to the table 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.920 and get the vaccine. Margaret Talive, Politics and White House 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.280 editor at Axios, thank you very much for joining us. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.680 Appreciate it so much. I'm Oscar Ameiras, and this has 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.600 been reopening America. Don't forget that. For today's big news stories, 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.600 you can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.520 every Monday to Friday. So follow us on iHeart Radio 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.280 or wherever you get your podcast.