Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done.
Speaker 1: Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up and Us
Speaker 1: for You podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Kara and I'm Lisa, your other hosts,
Speaker 2: and we are thrilled to be here talking about SVU
Speaker 2: True Crime and no guests because the motion picture people
Speaker 2: are fucking idiots. I was gonna say Watson, then I
Speaker 2: held back.
Speaker 3: But I'll say twa. I'll say, you.
Speaker 1: Really are getting so British.
Speaker 2: I do have Well I told you this a little
Speaker 2: bit ago, and well in Atlanta we figure it out.
Speaker 2: But Pimento Cheese is about to have a moment. So
Speaker 2: if everybody it's out there, it's everywhere, and you should
Speaker 2: all get in on the Pimento Cheese train.
Speaker 1: We are going on tour and my mom is coming
Speaker 1: to help with the kids, and so I was having
Speaker 1: Jared pick out the blue Apron meals that he's going
Speaker 1: to make for him and my mom. One of them
Speaker 1: is a Pimento cheeseburger, and I was like, Lieze, is right.
Speaker 1: Pimento cheese is about to blow up. Yeah, it's real.
Speaker 1: I see it everywhere.
Speaker 2: And then this Hilltop, which is a coffee breakfast chain
Speaker 2: in La I guess that a chain. There's like a
Speaker 2: few of them owned by Issa Ray. But they have
Speaker 2: a pimento grilled cheese and it is not bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to know. Okay, what is in it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What is pimento cheese?
Speaker 1: Literally looking it up, I'm like, pimento cheese? Wikipedia?
Speaker 3: Is there one?
Speaker 1: Okay, Pimento cheese is made of cheese, mayo, and penentoes.
Speaker 1: But what the fucker pimentoes?
Speaker 2: I bet it's a pepper. But I did not know
Speaker 2: that there was a mao in it, don't wonder. We
Speaker 2: fucking love it?
Speaker 3: Of course I love it. She's mixed with mayo.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, pimentos are like little red peppers. Like this
Speaker 1: thing is like pickled cherry peppers. Also, oh my god.
Speaker 2: But my friend from England it is funny, like she's like,
Speaker 2: what are your normal pizza toppings? I'm like, I don't know, cheese,
Speaker 2: but I'll take like a sausage pepper onion if it's
Speaker 2: the special kind of place, or like a weirdly pineapple
Speaker 2: onion and she's like, oh, usually do a sweet cone
Speaker 2: chicken and spin it. And I'm like, get the fuck
Speaker 2: out of here. We're not getting sweet corn chicken mushrooms.
Speaker 2: You fucking creep.
Speaker 3: That pizza sounds nuts.
Speaker 2: We would love a corn pizza, though, I think we
Speaker 2: would as I mean, I do love corn.
Speaker 1: Yes, we right when we went to Vegas seeking out
Speaker 1: corn pasta and we found it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was the only one who ordered it.
Speaker 2: I thought everyone was gonna order it. What did I get?
Speaker 1: Oh? I got vodka sauce because I love vodka sauce.
Speaker 1: But you gave me one of your or so I
Speaker 1: got my fix. I got my little light.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had some of your vodka sauce, which
Speaker 2: is good. But I keep thinking about that ricotta. Fucking ficasha,
Speaker 2: that whipped honey ricotta. I I gotta go back. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what good? There's an rpment we should go
Speaker 2: before show at Park West?
Speaker 3: Is that the one we went to? Yeah? Oh, or we.
Speaker 2: Could try something new. You know, we love to explore.
Speaker 2: We love to explore, but I want more. Yeah, vodka
Speaker 2: sauce is just so fucking good. I know you know what,
Speaker 2: I just found Barclays. If you're like in the VIP
Speaker 2: during the sports, like during halftime, they have a little
Speaker 2: catering area and it's Carbone.
Speaker 3: No our Bone caters Barclays. Wow. Wow yeah. Yeah. I've
Speaker 3: only been to Barclays once and I saw jay Z there.
Speaker 2: That's cool? Is that when he took the train? Is
Speaker 2: that where the concerts he took the train?
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe it was so easy.
Speaker 1: It's so easy to go see stuff at Barclays because
Speaker 1: you just everybody just gets out and there's space for everyone.
Speaker 1: Like my least favorite thing about concerts is like in
Speaker 1: LA there's so many beautiful concert venues, but it's like
Speaker 1: we're all funneling out to the same parking lots in
Speaker 1: the same area. But it's like Barclayser's like ninety entrances
Speaker 1: and you all just scatter into the New York streets
Speaker 1: after you know, it's so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then everyone is singing on the train platform
Speaker 2: or you're walking blocks from the concert together, like yeah.
Speaker 1: There's places to grab a drink like right there, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean if you want to like keep
Speaker 1: the party going. Not so the case with you know,
Speaker 1: these la venues. But I also think they're beautiful. You
Speaker 1: also go to an LA venue and you like look
Speaker 1: at a mountain in the moonlight while you're watching a concert.
Speaker 3: So I know we are in.
Speaker 2: The time machine because in the future, you guys are
Speaker 2: gonna have so much to hear from us.
Speaker 3: I'm seeing Incubus this week. Oh my god, for good
Speaker 3: at the Hollywood Bowl, right, yeah, yeah, baby base, Hell yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm excited. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: I want to be up there for the Hollywood Bowl
Speaker 2: because not to brag, last and we went my only time,
Speaker 2: we sat so close.
Speaker 3: Yeah and for Backstreet. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But now I'm sitting up but I'll be able to
Speaker 2: see the view or like the fireworks if they happen,
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, it's a different experience, and I'll be.
Speaker 1: I've sat nose bleeds at Hollywood Bowl and I love it,
Speaker 1: like I love it every time.
Speaker 3: And I can bring a cooler of food.
Speaker 2: That's like part of the gig, right, like you bring
Speaker 2: stuff because that depends.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, it depends.
Speaker 1: See the way the Hollywood Bowl works is that certain
Speaker 1: of the events are Hollywood Bowl events, and then some
Speaker 1: of them are like the Hollywood Bwls, essentially being rented out,
Speaker 1: and when it's those you're not allowed, and when it
Speaker 1: is you just have to like check the website and
Speaker 1: see what the event things are. Because I have been
Speaker 1: there where I've brought picnic snacks and bought my own
Speaker 1: wine and everything. But there's other times where you're not allowed.
Speaker 2: Oh I bet that's just for the symphony, and then
Speaker 2: for the other concerts.
Speaker 1: It's like symphony like sound of music, sing along that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Our friend's daughters are fully obsessed with the sound of
Speaker 1: music right now.
Speaker 3: Have you ever been a sound of music girl?
Speaker 1: No, I was like obsessed when I was because we
Speaker 1: did it at my school.
Speaker 3: I'm a little sad.
Speaker 2: I you know, I was excited when the girls were
Speaker 2: in the Spice Girls. But now it's the sound of music.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: They're weird for me.
Speaker 1: They're literally like Hi on a Hill was a lonely goatherd.
Speaker 1: Like they're like singing all of the little songs from it.
Speaker 1: They know all the words.
Speaker 3: It's crazy. I'm not.
Speaker 1: Rosie's not into live musicals yet, but I can't wait
Speaker 1: until she is. I wanted to watch that New Matilda.
Speaker 1: I heard that slaps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if that's that's the entry way, just
Speaker 2: full orphan it is.
Speaker 3: It's all full orphan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, full orphan for the first musical, and then all
Speaker 2: the other musicals should be like where are the orphans?
Speaker 3: I don't get it. Well, no, I.
Speaker 2: Mean unless we really want to talk about Taylor Swift
Speaker 2: and Travis Kelcey, but we'll see.
Speaker 3: If that's death, how much do you think talking about them?
Speaker 2: But yeah, how much do you think the NFL is
Speaker 2: paying Taylor's lift?
Speaker 3: That's what I was just talking about with Oh.
Speaker 1: I went on Justin's podcast and we were talking about
Speaker 1: this and.
Speaker 3: Well plug Justin Martindale. Justin Martindale. Justin Martindale.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has a podcast called Just Saying and I
Speaker 1: was telling him your theory too. I was like, maybe
Speaker 1: she's trying Lisa's theory or what she's heard is that
Speaker 1: like she's trying to like maybe outshine Beyonce a little bit,
Speaker 1: just like during the end of her tour, and so
Speaker 1: we'll say what did he say? He was like, that
Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean, we were conspiracy theory about everything.
Speaker 1: I was like, my conspiracy theory about the housewives is
Speaker 1: that they're all trying to do scan of all now,
Speaker 1: Like we were just talking bounce and forth back.
Speaker 3: He was like, possible.
Speaker 1: You know everyone's but he thinks it's a total PR
Speaker 1: scam too, like everybody does. But people on the internet
Speaker 1: were like, I was seeing on X yesterday kill me.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm even referring to it like that,
Speaker 1: But are like, why would she need to do that?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's always more. Taylor doesn't have every
Speaker 1: single person in the world. I mean like, I feel like, right,
Speaker 1: if you're like a big there's always more people you
Speaker 1: could get to like you and buy your shit and
Speaker 1: be on your side.
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is everything that I've gathered.
Speaker 2: It's the redo of nineteen eighty nine Taylor's version, and
Speaker 2: that era of her was all like hanging out with
Speaker 2: their friends, bad blood supermodels. Like so it's the it's
Speaker 2: that era again, and she wants to stay in the press.
Speaker 2: She does it, and I think she wants to stay
Speaker 2: in the press because Beyonce's tour is gonna make more
Speaker 2: money and she doesn't like that. And it was ending
Speaker 2: in Kansas City, and instead of talking about Beyonce's incredible
Speaker 2: tour and how it was ending and all the magic
Speaker 2: that she's created. We're talking about Taylor Swift at a
Speaker 2: Kansas City game in New York. So I think it's
Speaker 2: just keeping her talked about and the right, you know,
Speaker 2: So in that way, it's like good pr I think
Speaker 2: the NFL is paying her because they straight up are
Speaker 2: doing Taylor's version on their Twitter bios. They the commercials
Speaker 2: for the Jets game was Welcome to New York, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they are try and Swifties.
Speaker 3: Swifties change economies.
Speaker 2: Okay, so now we have Swifties buying tickets, they love
Speaker 2: buying merch.
Speaker 3: They're coming to the games.
Speaker 2: And now all these like dads are hanging out with
Speaker 2: their daughters finally on a Sunday.
Speaker 3: Good for you?
Speaker 1: Is this what Elliott Stabler needs to hang out with
Speaker 1: his kids?
Speaker 2: And and then the other theory, which is, you know,
Speaker 2: a next step up is is this Beard territory?
Speaker 3: Who is gay? And who is protecting who?
Speaker 2: And so that is another situation where some people believe
Speaker 2: that Taylor, you know, none of these relationships.
Speaker 3: Are real, maybe all of them.
Speaker 2: I think it's like professional wrestling to me, because like
Speaker 2: you can know that it's staged and have a good time,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, it's still skillful. You still want
Speaker 2: to look at them. They're in shape, they're doing tricks.
Speaker 2: You're in But at the end of the day, you
Speaker 2: know they planned backstage what's about to happen. And so
Speaker 2: there's those kinds of fans, and then there's marks, and
Speaker 2: the marks think it's all real and not plan and
Speaker 2: those are usually children or Disney adults, and those are
Speaker 2: the people that are like, oh, you could tell they've
Speaker 2: been dating because she's you know, she's so close to
Speaker 2: his mother and it's like, you're an idiot, But we're
Speaker 2: all having fun, you know. But do I hope that
Speaker 2: they're two hot people are fucking and they're having a
Speaker 2: good time and she's with like a real man who's
Speaker 2: into her and the romance is incredible at the end
Speaker 2: of the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe this is like the ultimate rom com
Speaker 1: where it starts as a PR stunt and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all in love.
Speaker 1: Like how many people have been set up by their
Speaker 1: agents or whatever that are like this could be cool
Speaker 1: and then maybe and then they do get married and
Speaker 1: have kids and stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, who knows, this is so funny. We are
Speaker 2: recording this so early. By the time this comes out,
Speaker 2: like they're gonna be done. This is so embarrassing. We're
Speaker 2: gonna get messages like it's over with it.
Speaker 3: Shut up.
Speaker 1: But sorry, this is like this episode is actually like
Speaker 1: a little bit like double time Machine because we're going
Speaker 1: on the road and hopefully you guys are gonna come
Speaker 1: see us and we'll get into that.
Speaker 3: In a second.
Speaker 1: But you know, like so this is like her the
Speaker 1: Arrows movie will have come out like over a week ago.
Speaker 1: We are old ladies talking about did you hear about
Speaker 1: this pretty little singer and the football man? Yeah, that's us,
Speaker 1: that's us. But listen, if you're gonna show us hot,
Speaker 1: and if you're gonna show up for Taylor at a
Speaker 1: football game, please show up for us.
Speaker 3: And here's where we're going to be.
Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, I just don't I just like I
Speaker 2: don't believe that he would be a good enough actor,
Speaker 2: like the way he's really playing it up.
Speaker 3: But I don't know if you.
Speaker 2: Saw, but Rosebud posted a thing on her stories and
Speaker 2: she was saying, how like when he was on SNL,
Speaker 2: he had trouble reading, like the table reads kept taking
Speaker 2: forever because you just can't really read that well. But
Speaker 2: then she walked by his dressing room and he was
Speaker 2: like with all his football friends and they were helping
Speaker 2: him read lines, like they were practicing reading together and
Speaker 2: cut it's so cute, and so she that's when she
Speaker 2: realized she was pregnant because she was crying over how
Speaker 2: cute it was, and she's like, I must be pregnant.
Speaker 3: That's when she realized, oh my god, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Because the other thing, too, is like it's one thing
Speaker 1: to read, it's another thing to like read funny dialogue
Speaker 1: in front of the cast of SNL, who are professional
Speaker 1: comedians and you're a football player. That's like, not what
Speaker 1: you do? You know, Like, I'm sure the guy is literate.
Speaker 1: It's just that's nerve wrecking. Anyway, after you leave Dave
Speaker 1: and Busters where you're watching those two on at a
Speaker 1: football game, please come see us on tour. This episode
Speaker 1: comes out the twenty fourth wide.
Speaker 3: Way I do. I am sorry, obviously we gotta plug
Speaker 3: our tour.
Speaker 2: But I also just love that, like men are so
Speaker 2: like so sexist in their bones that they're like, she
Speaker 2: better get a prina, you know, ah, she's just like
Speaker 2: they or even the like the trend of like she
Speaker 2: put him on the map and their piss. It's like
Speaker 2: she is seventy five times more famous than him, and
Speaker 2: I don't understand why men can't like understand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I really am dying to wait, hold on,
Speaker 1: I have to look this up.
Speaker 3: How much is Taylor's worth?
Speaker 2: She's over she's right now worth over seven hundred million.
Speaker 2: By the end of the tour, she will be worth
Speaker 2: over a billion dollars, I believe.
Speaker 1: And he's a football player that probably makes like a
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar contract.
Speaker 2: No, he's probably worth between thirty and fifty million. Like
Speaker 2: he's not a poor guy, but like, no, I'm just
Speaker 2: saying comparatively. Yeah, he has a rough net worth of
Speaker 2: thirty million. That is homes a million dollars. It's like
Speaker 2: your home's a million dollars.
Speaker 1: That's like a nothing compared to fucking tailor. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: but that is funny about the sexism because it's so true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the guys are back. Uh uh.
Speaker 2: He put her on the map to guys who might
Speaker 2: not know her, and it's like, but you.
Speaker 3: Do know her, you know her?
Speaker 2: Yeah whatever, I'm a news swifty. I'm always late to
Speaker 2: the party. No, I did see that in nineteen eight
Speaker 2: nine tour. But like i've the pr is working. I'll
Speaker 2: just say this, I am I'm an equal Mark and
Speaker 2: not Mark.
Speaker 3: I would say, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it, but yes we have shows to
Speaker 2: promote and we are not millionaires and.
Speaker 3: You know, not even close. Please come see us.
Speaker 1: This episode comes out today, the twenty fourth of October.
Speaker 3: That means tonight we are in Toronto. Baby. You guys
Speaker 3: from Toronto have been begging us to come in here.
Speaker 3: We're coming.
Speaker 1: Please come see us Detroit, Michigan tomorrow the twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: and then Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the next day on the twenty sixth,
Speaker 1: and then guys, the Big Midwest tour. We start in
Speaker 1: Salt Lake on the fourth, but then we go Chicago
Speaker 1: on the fifth, Madison on the sixth, Minneapolis on the seventh,
Speaker 1: Milwaukee on the eighth, Saint Louis on the ninth. Then
Speaker 1: it's Sacramento, New York, and Philly in December. You can
Speaker 1: check out all those dates that that's messed up live
Speaker 1: dot com. And we have added a late show in
Speaker 1: New York. Please get tickets for that. It would be
Speaker 1: so sad to have the first show be sold out.
Speaker 1: In the second show, just be like book Club size,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Uh So that's that on that?
Speaker 3: What else?
Speaker 1: Should we just get the party started with this episode?
Speaker 1: We've got another hot episode from Sholy seasons.
Speaker 2: About other very very timely things. So everyone knows when
Speaker 2: this was?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 2: What should we should do exactly? But yeah, Halloween's coming
Speaker 2: up and that's a holiday I love.
Speaker 1: But oh yeah, send us Semessa dm us if you're
Speaker 1: going to be an sv related Halloween costume, we'll share
Speaker 1: your costumes. I want to see some iced teas. I
Speaker 1: want to see some belsers. I want to see some
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess there's like some really funny
Speaker 1: like niche ones you could do. Listen, like dressing as
Speaker 1: Cynthia Nixon from Alternate with the Little pigtails.
Speaker 3: Wait, we should do SVU costumes. I know we should.
Speaker 2: Fuck Okay, we gotta star, we gotta start. I'll be
Speaker 2: I'll be the guy from Charisma.
Speaker 3: I'll just I'll strap a bunch of.
Speaker 1: Dead children cabbage badge dolls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we have the same hair, like I truly,
Speaker 2: I just have to put my arms out like Jesus
Speaker 2: and I'll be charismas.
Speaker 3: God. He was wild. He loved meditating.
Speaker 1: We're gonna some more inappropriate ideas for costumes, but in the.
Speaker 3: Mean time, it's fun.
Speaker 2: If you're picking up a friend from the airport from
Speaker 2: a different country and you're bringing American snacks, what would
Speaker 2: you bring?
Speaker 3: Ooh?
Speaker 1: I mean I think of an American snack as like Cheetos,
Speaker 1: like probably like some candy, except people from other countries
Speaker 1: hate our chocolate, like they don't like hershees.
Speaker 3: They think it tastes sour. Oh. Interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I gave her a gush and she's like, you know
Speaker 2: what what that means in England and I'm like, yes, squirting,
Speaker 2: we're not idiots.
Speaker 3: But then she bit it. She's like, ooh, something's inside
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, the gush, you lose her, that's the gush.
Speaker 1: God, this is so wild. This has been a truly
Speaker 1: unhinged episode.
Speaker 2: While we went to the beach okay, I don't know
Speaker 2: if this is okay, there was a man obviously having
Speaker 2: a mental episode or a really like intense LSD trip
Speaker 2: like whatever it was. He had a really amazing setup.
Speaker 2: The reason I wanted to sit next to him was
Speaker 2: because he was playing like Luda Nelly, like early two thousands.
Speaker 2: He played juvenile, So like, while we were picking a
Speaker 2: spot at the beach, I go, oh, let's just be
Speaker 2: by the guy with the speaker because he's playing music. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was drinking, he was he was having he was
Speaker 2: reliving trauma loudly, and he was yelling like dead, why
Speaker 2: don't you listen to mom? Like he was fully Oh no,
Speaker 2: yeah it was. He's like, I'm the man of the
Speaker 2: house now, like it was. But we didn't move, and
Speaker 2: then a man with a really nice dog came to
Speaker 2: like help him for a little bit. But for about
Speaker 2: an hour he was reliving his youthful trauma out loud,
Speaker 2: and we were there for him.
Speaker 1: And that's what you took your friend directly from the
Speaker 1: airport to experience.
Speaker 3: And there were pigeons.
Speaker 2: I'm like, we can't just ever have a truly nice time,
Speaker 2: you know, like there needs to be a little roughness
Speaker 2: to our because one time when she met me in
Speaker 2: New York, a guy was passing out and we had
Speaker 2: to hold him on the train and walk him off,
Speaker 2: and like there's always we're always just kind of.
Speaker 3: Invault.
Speaker 1: She's basically coming from England to the us on a
Speaker 1: humanitarian mission, like every time she comes.
Speaker 3: She's here to help. I love that he's just like
Speaker 3: I should be able to eat what I want.
Speaker 2: Like he was just you know, as someone that researches,
Speaker 2: you know, so that a part of me is like,
Speaker 2: hopefully he's just like having a mushroom trip and getting
Speaker 2: through stuff. Best case sitdy, worst case yeah, best use. Yeah,
Speaker 2: his setup was really nice though. Okay, oh my god,
Speaker 2: we gotta go. I'm sea sorry. Did you quote the
Speaker 2: tour yet or do it? Have I interrupted you every
Speaker 2: single time?
Speaker 1: Yes, against your best efforts, I have promoted the tour.
Speaker 1: So let's get started with the episode. We got a
Speaker 1: good one from an early season. We're jumping in here
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 2: We will be doing the episode appearances, season four, episode nineteen.
Speaker 2: And even though this is season four, it truly is
Speaker 2: like looks like season one. Yeah, it's really old timey
Speaker 2: feel vibe.
Speaker 3: Case.
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's something really retro about it. And
Speaker 2: it is season four, so maybe I don't know. It
Speaker 2: just seems different. Yes, but also some classic tropes, some
Speaker 2: classic classic favorite I would say, let's just get into this.
Speaker 2: The bus doors open and a blonde Bob teacher is
Speaker 2: addressing her class ready to board the bus, and she's like,
Speaker 2: you know, make sure everyone's with their partners. But there's
Speaker 2: a famous Simpsons episode where what if the two partners
Speaker 2: are missing?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's like, I have my buddy, but what if you
Speaker 2: and your buddy are gone?
Speaker 3: Then fucked?
Speaker 2: So this whole system of elementary school field trip logic
Speaker 2: is not good. And she has a fur lined hood,
Speaker 2: which uh of the era h and she has a scowl.
Speaker 2: She's not happy about this, but what chaperone on a
Speaker 2: field trip is. And then one kid tells on another
Speaker 2: kid because this and that, and it's like, kid, get
Speaker 2: a life. No one likes a narc and they're headed
Speaker 2: to the Natural History Museum. But before that, the another
Speaker 2: boy with glasses, he has an announcement. He's like, oh,
Speaker 2: someone left their suitcase on the bus, and the and
Speaker 2: then the boys like fits heavy. So the teacher acts fast.
Speaker 2: Everyone rushes off the bus. Sexy bomb squad man and
Speaker 2: a helmet. They're ready to work. There's a guy with
Speaker 2: scuba suits. They're extraying the suitcase, you know, the helmet
Speaker 2: and the nerd are watching, and the nerd is like fuck,
Speaker 2: it's not a bomb, it's bones. And also I noticed
Speaker 2: that this is just like a normal city bus. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't understand. How are you taking a whole class
Speaker 2: to the museum on a city I was.
Speaker 1: Thinking about that too, because I've ridden I've ridden the
Speaker 1: New York City bus a long time. I've never seen
Speaker 1: a class of children get on it. But I'm assuming that,
Speaker 1: like you, if you teach on the Upper east Side
Speaker 1: and you want to just take kids across the park
Speaker 1: to the Museum of Natural History, when you just hop
Speaker 1: on the Crosstown, I guess, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Not in the suburbs you would get a school bus.
Speaker 2: But I've seen field trips on the train all the time.
Speaker 2: I've seen camps, I've seen the yurops. Yeah, someway. So
Speaker 2: if it's for the train, I see it for a bus.
Speaker 2: I just really grew up where you take a school
Speaker 2: bus like this is so foreign. Yeah, so that was
Speaker 2: really shocking that it was a city bus. But it
Speaker 2: makes sense that there was, you know, a loose suitcase
Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So you know, we're on the case. The girl is
Speaker 3: eight or nine? No ID? Yeah, what child has an ID?
Speaker 2: What do they think that she was going to have
Speaker 2: her her club Penguin card.
Speaker 3: What id They're going to use the library card? Like
Speaker 3: so wild?
Speaker 1: So I have a passport card for Rosie and I
Speaker 1: keep it in my wallet and it does look like
Speaker 1: a baby with a driver's license.
Speaker 2: And she was a real baby during that ride, isn't
Speaker 2: it like so cute?
Speaker 3: She's five months old, that's so cute.
Speaker 2: So the girl was jammed inside a suitcase and left
Speaker 2: on a bus, not good and the driver doesn't remember anyone,
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, I'm a I'm a city bus driver.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna remember every Tom Joey.
Speaker 3: I'm not a bartender.
Speaker 1: I'm not a bartender on lonrd SVU where I can
Speaker 1: tell you who got on, what time, what they drank.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a No one wants to merge. I'm
Speaker 3: turning right. Okay.
Speaker 2: Melinda's on the case and she doesn't know the cause
Speaker 2: of death yet, but there are ligature marks on the
Speaker 2: arms and wrists and based on something or other, and
Speaker 2: there's just she was bound somewhere else and then put
Speaker 2: in the suitcase. And then Benson is in a short
Speaker 2: hair swoopy bang era and she leans down to the body,
Speaker 2: and right away she notices a fresh, nice like French
Speaker 2: manicure and petticure, and she goes, that's a salon job.
Speaker 3: And then there's dark roots and blonde hair.
Speaker 2: So this girl is made up and Maloney thinks she's
Speaker 2: too young for all this flare, but Benson's like it's
Speaker 2: probably kitty beauty pageants and they're like, uh oh, not
Speaker 2: a Jean Bennet. And yeah, it was really sad and
Speaker 2: the whole case and everything, but we as a nation
Speaker 2: really never discussed Jean Benet is a wild name, right
Speaker 2: for a little girl in Colorado?
Speaker 3: Yes? Was that ever brought up?
Speaker 2: Like, hey, guys, I know she's murdered, but can you
Speaker 2: also explain why you get her that name.
Speaker 3: I'm literally going to try to google it really quickly.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's never oh, oh, okay, it was.
Speaker 1: She was named after her father, combining his first and
Speaker 1: middle names. His name was John Bennett, and so Jean
Speaker 1: Benet with the French flair. I hate that even more
Speaker 1: than just thinking it was, like if it was just
Speaker 1: a fake French name, I would like that more than
Speaker 1: naming it after having to name your daughter after her
Speaker 1: dad's first and last name, like name her Joanna or something.
Speaker 1: You know, there's names that are can be feminized off
Speaker 1: of John has to be full name. The men get
Speaker 1: the boys, right, The men get all the boys to
Speaker 1: be their little juniors. And then it's so weird. Also,
Speaker 1: they have a son who's older. Why did they name
Speaker 1: him John Bennett?
Speaker 2: Well, maybe the dad's as big of a creep as
Speaker 2: the dad in this Stay tuned, Yes, Benson, you know,
Speaker 2: she goes, wow, we have a dead beauty queen. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's nice, and then done, done credits. We it's still
Speaker 2: just a kid, and you solve the crime. We returned
Speaker 2: to the morgue with a straight hair, ponytail Melinda, and
Speaker 2: she goes, yes, there are fluids and the way she
Speaker 2: died not good. Basically in her mouth was vomit and latex.
Speaker 2: They also found sawgrass inside of her sweater, which only
Speaker 2: grows in the Florida Everglades. And there's more. They've realized
Speaker 2: that she's had a fucking nose job. And then Melinda
Speaker 2: goes and a damn good one.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: We gotta walk and talk brainstorm with Craigan and Munch,
Speaker 2: but sadly nothing is really hitting or working no matches,
Speaker 2: evidence patterns, like, what are we gonna do? Craigan's suggesting
Speaker 2: if there are any local pageants coming up or recently happened,
Speaker 2: and look into those and with some luck, you know,
Speaker 2: we'll we'll get to investigate the child beauty pageant scene.
Speaker 2: But before they do anything, they need to talk about
Speaker 2: nine year olds getting those jobs. Craigan tells Benson and
Speaker 2: Elliott to go to the nip and to brigade and create.
Speaker 2: And I think that's just mom and dad, right, because
Speaker 2: there is the doctors I don't know up. Brigade is
Speaker 2: so funny to me. And then so that's what Benson
Speaker 2: and Stable are doing. And then Craigan and you're gonna
Speaker 2: go catch the kiddie pageant scene. A woman who you
Speaker 2: imagine in your head as a beauty pageant leader coach
Speaker 2: person is up. Looks exactly what you're imagining in your head,
Speaker 2: but also add a Mormon's style half up, half down
Speaker 2: hair do with a lot of volume and thin eyebrows
Speaker 2: very very two thousands, I mean fair, you know, like
Speaker 2: big and into sperm. Well we've all had a sperm eyebrow.
Speaker 2: And she's taken aback by their disdain for the pageants.
Speaker 3: She's like, I'm really proud.
Speaker 2: To help ladies' characters builds, you know, and the pageants
Speaker 2: called Little Angels. They flash her a Moorg photo and
Speaker 2: her reaction is legit, like fuck, and it might be
Speaker 2: the first dead body she's ever seen. And I never
Speaker 2: like how loose they are show dead body pictures to people.
Speaker 3: It really bothers me.
Speaker 2: But she doesn't recognize the girl, but it does really
Speaker 2: sadden her, and she says, that's nobody she knows, but
Speaker 2: they like, she'll go through the files of people who
Speaker 2: did not get into the pageant. Bells Aer inquires about
Speaker 2: the security for the pageant, and she goes, we are
Speaker 2: really strict about badges. How much are badges twenty five dollars?
Speaker 2: So by strict they mean twenty five dollars. Do you
Speaker 2: have twenty five dollars? Reagan takes a call and it's
Speaker 2: Olivia and she informs him that a girl named Sherry
Speaker 2: Lathan has just been reported missing in Valley's Stream and
Speaker 2: so Olivia and Elliott are gonna head there now, and
Speaker 2: Bellzer finds her file. In picture, she has puffy hair,
Speaker 2: blonde hair, green dress, huge smile, and it does seem
Speaker 2: like pageants make her happy, Like she does look really
Speaker 2: into it.
Speaker 3: She has an l fanning vibe as well.
Speaker 2: So then like it moves from that one photo of
Speaker 2: her into a bunch of framed photos. We're at a
Speaker 2: grieving parents home right now. The dad is a creep.
Speaker 2: They've been competing for four years. Her friend did it
Speaker 2: and so she really wanted to do it. And then
Speaker 2: the last patge it was three months before, right before
Speaker 2: her surgery, and the sad mom is comotose and like
Speaker 2: not in the moment, but gets out of the zone
Speaker 2: to say plastic surgery, and you can feel she is
Speaker 2: not happy about it one bit, and he sternly says
Speaker 2: that's what she wanted, and she of course lets him know,
Speaker 2: that's clearly what you wanted. No six year old asks
Speaker 2: for a no shop and they ask why did it
Speaker 2: take you so long to report your daughter missing? And
Speaker 2: this couple is so strange outside of the dad being
Speaker 2: so into beauty pageants, the mom is so mad. I mean,
Speaker 2: they did just lose a daughter. I take it back.
Speaker 2: They can act how they want. So Anyways, she was
Speaker 2: supposed to be at Amy Prescott's house for a sleepover
Speaker 2: and then goes straight to school and that's where they
Speaker 2: thought she was. That all seems kosher. I don't see
Speaker 2: anything suspicious here. So the last time Shari was seen
Speaker 2: was the dad took her to get new headshots and
Speaker 2: then dropped her off at Amy's house. The mom is
Speaker 2: so sad. Dad is a weirdo. I am reiterating. He
Speaker 2: is very strange. And they ask if they've been to
Speaker 2: Florida recently, and the dad cries finally and he remembers
Speaker 2: Christmas at Disney World. They ask him for a DNA sample,
Speaker 2: and he is actually calmer than a lot of dads
Speaker 2: that are asked for DNA in connection to their daughter's crimes.
Speaker 2: He is mad and defensive, but in a really calm tone,
Speaker 2: and he's teary, and he goes, I know what you're thinking,
Speaker 2: and you're wrong. I worshiped her, and to be fair,
Speaker 2: that is worse than being upset about the DNA. I
Speaker 2: think worshiping your little girl is creepy. The nose job
Speaker 2: is bad.
Speaker 1: I can't believe there's a doctor that would do a
Speaker 1: nose job on a nine year old or an eight
Speaker 1: year old unless you really had like a deviated symptom
Speaker 1: that was making it hard for you to breathe, like
Speaker 1: you had some kind of like real problem, like just
Speaker 1: a plastic nose job on a I don't know. We've
Speaker 1: got people that listen to us, that like work at
Speaker 1: plastic surgeon's offices that I feel can you please let
Speaker 1: us know if you would do a nose job on
Speaker 1: an eight year old, because I feel like that's weird.
Speaker 1: Your nose is like not done developing. Actually your noses grow.
Speaker 1: Your nose grows forever, so it's never done developing.
Speaker 3: But go on.
Speaker 2: So the next scene, they go to the friend Amy
Speaker 2: Prescott's house. Benson's talking to the mom while Elliott glares
Speaker 2: at the daughter and the mom's plans. Amy had the flu,
Speaker 2: so Shari went to school on her own, and the
Speaker 2: mom offered her a ride to the bus stop, but
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, no, worries, I'll walk and it's only
Speaker 2: four blocks. And the mom's like, fuck, I should have
Speaker 2: insisted on driving her, but I didn't want to leave Amy,
Speaker 2: and it's and the daughter says, I'm sorry, and it's like,
Speaker 2: it's not your fault. Your mom's an idiot, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Your daughter with the flu can't be
Speaker 2: alone for four blocks, like, I just I can't, I
Speaker 2: really don't understand. Elliot leans in and asks Amy if
Speaker 2: she's ever complained about someone bothering her, and she goes, yes. Kevin,
Speaker 2: tenth grade, he bothered us. He would tell Shari she
Speaker 2: looks hot and meant it, and he'd hang around the gymnastics.
Speaker 2: He'd hang around our gymnastics practice and just stare at us,
Speaker 2: And then uh oh, Belzer and Fann are talking about
Speaker 2: this dude. He basically he writes fan fixture about little
Speaker 2: children on the world Wide Web, and he even names
Speaker 2: in the fanfic, like the character is Shari. This creep
Speaker 2: is fifteen, and he convinced the sixth grader wants to
Speaker 2: pose in a bikini for an art project. So Kevin
Speaker 2: is in the barroom cement and Finn is playing rough
Speaker 2: and tumble with him, and the dad is like, fuck you, Kevin,
Speaker 2: you skipped school, and it's like, I don't know your
Speaker 2: child's also a pedophile. I don't know if skipping school
Speaker 2: the biggest problem you have today, and they go yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like he might never be able to go to
Speaker 2: near your school again, okay, bet or worse, So he
Speaker 2: doesn't have an alibi, but he says he would never
Speaker 2: touch her. They start reading the stories out loud and
Speaker 2: he says, that's creative expression. And then he calls the
Speaker 2: black Man and the Jew a Nazi. I don't know
Speaker 2: which one, but it is pretty fun. He says, I
Speaker 2: make stuff up. And they say give us DNA. He
Speaker 2: says no. The Dad's like, the hell you will, So
Speaker 2: we're team Daddy over here. And then then the kid goes,
Speaker 2: you fascist, I'm gonna sue, and the dad grabs him,
Speaker 2: throws him into the chair, rips the hair out of
Speaker 2: his head and goes, will this do. Melinda says no,
Speaker 2: so no match. We're in the lab and it's no
Speaker 2: match on the hairs. Finn Is like, we should still
Speaker 2: watch him. He's gonna he's gonna commit a crime soon. Also,
Speaker 2: Melinda found just and the purpose ejaculate, which is a
Speaker 2: female hormone. So it's given to high school girls to
Speaker 2: prevent pregnancy cool or it can be taken as like
Speaker 2: a testosterone blocker to treat cancer, or it's for people
Speaker 2: undergoing males a female gender reassignment surgery, or Belzer says
Speaker 2: to sex offenders to reduce sex drive and Melinda goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but no, because I found traces of testosterone in the blood.
Speaker 3: And Finn is like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: This this person is trying to reverse the effects of
Speaker 2: chemical castration to rape the child. Finn calls him a
Speaker 2: freak and we need to find him because he's not
Speaker 2: going to stop. So, if you're getting chemically castrated and
Speaker 2: then reversing it with tea, like, you really want to
Speaker 2: be out there. So NYC doesn't allow chemical castration, but
Speaker 2: nine states do. George is the closest one to New
Speaker 2: York City and they're like, well, what about voluntary vibes?
Speaker 3: And they're like.
Speaker 2: Sure, but why would you choose to do it and
Speaker 2: then take testosterone? That doesn't make sense, And Beidie Wong's like, well,
Speaker 2: he's done his homework. So Huan gets down and is
Speaker 2: just like, this guy likes a perfect victim pageants sexualized
Speaker 2: children who are innocent yet provocative. Bondage means he has
Speaker 2: thought about it for a long time before he did it.
Speaker 3: We need to find him.
Speaker 2: So calls calls, calls state to state, but chemical castration
Speaker 2: hasn't been around long enough to have a centralized database.
Speaker 2: So finally Elliott points to Florida, and it's like, why
Speaker 2: wouldn't that be the first idea you found the sawgrass
Speaker 2: from the Everglades. Why would he look anywhere else but Florida. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're calling Florida's the last call you make.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm dead. I just can't even.
Speaker 2: So they start finding names of people who've been c seed.
Speaker 2: That's chemical castration for me. So one guy is a
Speaker 2: Rob Canoti from Milwaukee and he started treatments in Jersey
Speaker 2: City recently, and so it's like, well, maybe he went
Speaker 2: to Florida and came back. He does have a rap sheet,
Speaker 2: so and he one time straight up kidnapped a girl
Speaker 2: from a beauty passian to try to assault her in
Speaker 2: his car. So I think this is a great suspect.
Speaker 2: But the girl, thank god, escaped. She was ten years old.
Speaker 2: Very So we go to a Jersey City library. I
Speaker 2: don't think this man should be working there, and right
Speaker 2: away when he sees them, he's like, what, a girl's
Speaker 2: been attacked And they're like, well, why would you say that,
Speaker 2: and he goes, that's the only reason you'd come find.
Speaker 3: Me, duh.
Speaker 2: And they say they want to talk about kitty beauty pageants,
Speaker 2: and they question him about Shari and he goes, well,
Speaker 2: I don't remember her, but it's hard to keep track
Speaker 2: of so many different lovelies. This throws Elliott into a rage.
Speaker 2: He throws the book out of his hand, corners him
Speaker 2: into a shelf, and goes, where were you last night?
Speaker 2: He was watching Nickelodeon. This guy does not stop, and
Speaker 2: he says, don't worry though, like you found a jacular right,
Speaker 2: so it can't be me. The urges, you know, started
Speaker 2: to come back, so I had him cut off. He
Speaker 2: pulls down his pants in the aisle of the library
Speaker 2: and goes look and Eliot's like, okay, we get it.
Speaker 2: Pull your pants up. So then Benson gets a call
Speaker 2: and one of the Florida names they got has a
Speaker 2: mother who lives two houses down from Shari, and the
Speaker 2: guy's name is Tommy Hedges. So Munch and Finn are
Speaker 2: going to go visit the mother of the house that's
Speaker 2: next to Shari that her son's a criminal. And she
Speaker 2: is eighties like she is like short mom, structured hair,
Speaker 2: lots of heavy highlights, a sweater that like a teacher
Speaker 2: would wear with like a cute scene on it, and
Speaker 2: she takes them around the house very nonchalantly. She's like, listen,
Speaker 2: he hasn't come visit. He can't leave the state, but
Speaker 2: his room is here for him. They see a van,
Speaker 2: they want to search it. It's peculiar. It's the van
Speaker 2: piques their interest, and she says it was her late
Speaker 2: husband's and she's keeping it for Tommy and she doesn't
Speaker 2: drive it at all. But it's like, lady, you're dumb.
Speaker 2: There's snow everywhere and the van is clean. We know
Speaker 2: what's happening. She says that Tommy feels bad about his
Speaker 2: past and he's changed and takes medication and has a
Speaker 2: job in Florida and is determined to change. Finn and
Speaker 2: Munch dig through the garbage because she's not giving them anything,
Speaker 2: and Belzer is wearing earmuffs and a hat chic. The
Speaker 2: mom runs out like, hey, bitch, stop looking through my garbage,
Speaker 2: and Finn it's too late. He finds something from a
Speaker 2: Mexican laboratory, pharmacia vibes liqud to testosterone, and they're like,
Speaker 2: we know Tommy is coming home. She denies it and
Speaker 2: they're like, his name and last week's data are on
Speaker 2: the meds. You're done, She.
Speaker 3: Says, ugh.
Speaker 2: He got a job at an ad agency in NYC.
Speaker 2: Monday through Thursday. He works, then flies down to Miami
Speaker 2: to get his injection. He is cured, and so they
Speaker 2: go to the ad agency. They find to me as
Speaker 2: long hair, he's not as weird or pedo as the
Speaker 2: other creeps in this episode, and he's really striking and smooth,
Speaker 2: I would say, And he goes with them pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: Everyone in the office is a buzz and standing and watching,
Speaker 2: and they take his laptop and go into interrogation. He says, listen,
Speaker 2: nobody gave me a job in Florida. I had to
Speaker 2: come home, and I don't like flying up and down,
Speaker 2: but I do it.
Speaker 3: And he's against the sexual Registry list.
Speaker 2: Aka lol, Like what forster?
Speaker 3: Against it?
Speaker 2: He goes, it's hell for those trying to make a
Speaker 2: new start, and it's like, okay, but you are a
Speaker 2: pedophile rapist, Like I don't know what you want from us,
Speaker 2: Like you have to be on a list.
Speaker 3: He seems sincere though you know.
Speaker 2: He knows he broke parole, but he's taking his shots
Speaker 2: and the parole office thinks that he's doing telemarketing from home,
Speaker 2: so they show him the viole of testosterone and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: is this for a jet lag? He says, I want
Speaker 2: to live a normal life, Like what woman wants to
Speaker 2: be with a guy who can't perform? And they're like,
Speaker 2: do you count Sherry Latham as a woman And he goes,
Speaker 2: I don't know who that is. They show the pick
Speaker 2: and they say this is a nine year old that
Speaker 2: you raped and killed. He goes, this is a mistake.
Speaker 2: They say, hey, it's great. If it's a mistake, we'll
Speaker 2: apologize to you and send you on your way.
Speaker 3: But yeah, just show us some evidence.
Speaker 2: So do you have flight info or what if we
Speaker 2: find trace evidence in your van or DNA and fluids
Speaker 2: found in the girl? Like, some of this will take time,
Speaker 2: but we're not worried because you'll just be in prison
Speaker 2: for your parole violation. So we're not in a hurry.
Speaker 2: You're not in a hurry. And he looks stunned, shocked, gooped, gagged.
Speaker 2: Elliott asks what happened and he's doing the caring little routine.
Speaker 3: He's like, just tell us, honey, we care. He cries.
Speaker 2: He starts to breathe deep and says he noticed her
Speaker 2: before the other girls and then he calls her a
Speaker 2: little princess and he starts crying more. And this is
Speaker 2: a really quick to you know, in terms of sview format.
Speaker 2: He offered her a ride. He just wanted to talk
Speaker 2: to her. She was really sweet and lovely. Benson asks
Speaker 2: where he did it. It is in the van. She
Speaker 2: was crying and saying she would tell, and he wanted
Speaker 2: to keep her quiet, so he had to stop her.
Speaker 2: So he gagged her and then he left to get
Speaker 2: some air, and when he came back, she wasn't moving.
Speaker 2: He did not mean to hurt her, He just wanted
Speaker 2: to rape and gag her. So then he said he
Speaker 2: can control his feelings. But then he read the story
Speaker 2: what story on the internet? Pictures and words, Yes, that's
Speaker 2: a story, but it was stuck in his head.
Speaker 3: And then knock knock. Kraigan says, the lab got something.
Speaker 3: You need to see this.
Speaker 2: So we have friend of the pod, Joel de la Fuente,
Speaker 2: and he found forty kittie porn shots on this man's
Speaker 2: laptop and one of the pictures is like the story
Speaker 2: about he was talking about of Janet, and it's how
Speaker 2: to stalk and rape little girls photos and like words
Speaker 2: like the man said, and she's tied up in the
Speaker 2: same way in position as Shari, and he copied exactly
Speaker 2: what he saw. But also to me, I'm just like, well,
Speaker 2: who care, like motive, like that doesn't matter, Like it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter who inspired you.
Speaker 3: It's like the Columbine shit. It's like, this is very
Speaker 3: few times.
Speaker 2: I'm not fully gung ho with SVU, and this is
Speaker 2: one of them where I'm like, this is really a stretch.
Speaker 2: So Cabot, of course, is like, this is a dumb case,
Speaker 2: like he looked at pictures, doesn't diminish his culpability, and
Speaker 2: Sailor goes, yes, but Tommy deserves to be punished obviously,
Speaker 2: but so is the person who made this, and she goes, juries,
Speaker 2: don't go for shit like this, bad Wong babbles, and
Speaker 2: Cabots like, nope, porn does not make people do things,
Speaker 2: he goes, but it does desensitize him to stuff, and
Speaker 2: repeated viewing could push people to look at more wild,
Speaker 2: degrading shit and then even act on it.
Speaker 3: And so the murder.
Speaker 2: So she goes, oh, so the murderer has no choice,
Speaker 2: like I'm not buying it, and bid Wong is like, listen,
Speaker 2: people are very succeptible, Like he was even more susceptible
Speaker 2: if he maybe never looked at the pictures after he
Speaker 2: had already done something like that, like maybe he would
Speaker 2: have never done it. This is crazy reasoning, okay, but
Speaker 2: basically he said, because he's done it before, he was
Speaker 2: more acceptible to the pictures and if he didn't see him,
Speaker 2: he might not have ever done it.
Speaker 3: Elliott wants her to like Aaron Brockovich.
Speaker 2: This like this business they're focused on queens and they're
Speaker 2: called Love Incorporated.
Speaker 3: So they're like, fine, we'll go erin Brockovich.
Speaker 2: So there's a big raid and there's a young young
Speaker 2: girl in pigtails making porn. But she is nineteen and
Speaker 2: she has a birth certificate and Benson's like, you always
Speaker 2: have your birth certificate on you and it's like, yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: she had needs an ID. Maybe she lost her idea
Speaker 2: at the bar last night, fucking judgy bitch.
Speaker 3: And he's trying to connect.
Speaker 2: The case, but like she's like, I don't understand what
Speaker 2: you want from me, and they're like, just get to
Speaker 2: the chase tell us who signs your checks, and she goes.
Speaker 2: Stanley Billings from Excel Entertainment and we see him and
Speaker 2: his suit is very ill fitting, and he does like
Speaker 2: he's like, I don't do anything illegal. He's really just
Speaker 2: a classic, ill fitting suit kind of man. And they're
Speaker 2: all of age, he says. And this guy is played
Speaker 2: by an actor named Brian Kerwin. He's the dad in
Speaker 2: Twenty seven Dresses, also some their svus. He has ninety
Speaker 2: four credits, including three hundred and eight episodes of One.
Speaker 3: Life to Live.
Speaker 1: WHOA, Maybe that's how I recognize him. I used to
Speaker 1: watch One Life to Live as a child. No, but
Speaker 1: he was only on it from two to eleven. I
Speaker 1: was done by then. I recognize him, but I don't
Speaker 1: know what I know him from.
Speaker 2: He's everywhere, he's everywhere. He works. He works for me.
Speaker 2: He's twenty seven Dresses, because that's a movie I like
Speaker 2: to watch. I used to support my airline that I
Speaker 2: was loyal to, but now with all the changes they've
Speaker 2: decided to make, I will not be mentioning them on.
Speaker 3: This podcast ever again. Oh wow, but this guy seems casual.
Speaker 2: He's like, I do everything legal, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: this pick looks like a child. He goes, yeah, but
Speaker 2: they're not. It's virtual photography. And we make them look younger.
Speaker 2: It's ai, what do you want from me? It's not
Speaker 2: a crime, and Benson's like, well if this is connected
Speaker 2: to a nine year old death, and he's like, lol, no,
Speaker 2: not at all.
Speaker 3: I've done nothing illegal.
Speaker 2: Benson screams, it's a murder manual and she blames porn
Speaker 2: and he's like, listen, take it up with the court
Speaker 2: and not my fucking business. So now, Joel de la
Speaker 2: Fuente aka Taru says he uses software that ages kids
Speaker 2: to find missing kids, but backwards, so that's how he
Speaker 2: does it, and then he does it to Benson's face,
Speaker 2: and it's really fucked up. And Craigan calls them sick
Speaker 2: bastards and he's mad they aren't breaking any laws, and
Speaker 2: Cabot's like, no, I know. This really is a pickle,
Speaker 2: and Benson and Stabler are a dog with a bone
Speaker 2: and they need to get this company, and Elliott hates
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. Cabot's like, okay, okay, if we can
Speaker 2: prove that Billings provided assistance to Tommy Hedges in the
Speaker 2: rape and murder of Shri, then it's facilitation. And to
Speaker 2: get that done he has to make a deal with
Speaker 2: she needs to make a deal with the devil, and
Speaker 2: the devil is Tommy, and she goes, listen, if you
Speaker 2: help us, you don't get the death penalty. Trevor Langen
Speaker 2: aka mister mushtra Hargate says, no, we need better, not
Speaker 2: good enough, and she's like, he needs light at the
Speaker 2: end of the tunnel. She says, fine, murder too, So
Speaker 2: twenty five years and he likes that it means he
Speaker 2: can like get out and commit another fucking crime in
Speaker 2: twenty five years. So Cabot crosses her arms and starts
Speaker 2: getting scooped. When did you start receiving emails from xed out?
Speaker 2: So January, right when he got out of jail. They
Speaker 2: immediately started sending ads for websites and they had little samples,
Speaker 2: and he was tempted, but he didn't give in until
Speaker 2: he finally saw the story of Janet and there were
Speaker 2: a few lines and a girl dressed like a princess.
Speaker 2: These guys really love a princess vibe, and it was
Speaker 2: very exciting. So he signed up and he read the
Speaker 2: whole story and he wanted to feel the way that
Speaker 2: he used to.
Speaker 3: So that's when he ordered the tea.
Speaker 2: And so that's enough information and they go and arrest
Speaker 2: this guy for facilitating murder, the murder of Shree Latham,
Speaker 2: and he's like, you're joking and they arrest him. So
Speaker 2: Cabit and Stabler walk and talk and she's like, this
Speaker 2: is a really huge gamble, like I can still lose it,
Speaker 2: and free speech is.
Speaker 3: Gonna be brought up.
Speaker 2: And Barry Mordoc walks in and it's Cabot's old law
Speaker 2: professor and he's and he's like.
Speaker 3: Oh, we're going to be doing business together.
Speaker 2: And they find out he's repping Stanley Billings because he
Speaker 2: loves the First Amendment and you know the game free speech,
Speaker 2: first murder. And so she says there's a case where
Speaker 2: if you publish instructions to aid someone in committing a crime,
Speaker 2: then boom, baby, you are guilty. And he's like good,
Speaker 2: but it's not that it's virtual pornography and it is protected.
Speaker 2: Stabler keeps popping popping in and saying stuff and they
Speaker 2: ignore him. They like talk over his head, and it
Speaker 2: does remind me of his character and deep where he
Speaker 2: plays the personal trainer who keeps talking and no one
Speaker 2: respects him, and it's like, wow, I didn't realize they
Speaker 2: were so connected.
Speaker 3: Stabler is a jock.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, you know, Cabot and
Speaker 2: Barry tussle, and he's excited for the fight and happy
Speaker 2: he taught her so well, and she goes, yes, and
Speaker 2: remember this, the thing speaks for itself. If it looks
Speaker 2: like kitty porn, then it is kitty porn. And then
Speaker 2: he smiles and he goes, but there was no kid
Speaker 2: in the kitty porn. So Melinda's on the stand and
Speaker 2: she's talking about her vomiting to death with her hands
Speaker 2: tied behind her back, and it's pretty gruesome.
Speaker 3: Cabbot shows a drawing in the story of.
Speaker 2: Janet and it is identical on how they found the body,
Speaker 2: and so Tommy copy copied the website like every single detailed.
Speaker 2: Barry kept gets up and goes, what killed Shari? Choked
Speaker 2: on vomit? He says, So she wasn't choked by a photograph,
Speaker 2: She wasn't kidnapped by a story or bound and gagged
Speaker 2: by a website. No to all the questions, and then
Speaker 2: Cabot knows she's been taken. Tommy's on the stand. Why'd
Speaker 2: you kill her?
Speaker 3: Dude?
Speaker 2: He says, he never meant to kill her. He only
Speaker 2: meant to rape her, which you know doesn't look that
Speaker 2: good on the stand, but you know, we love, we
Speaker 2: love someone.
Speaker 3: Who takes accountability.
Speaker 2: He says he wanted to rape her because he couldn't
Speaker 2: stop thinking about being with a little girl. And they
Speaker 2: talk about chemical caustration again, and then that it did
Speaker 2: work for over two years, but impulses began again after
Speaker 2: he got out of jail and getting those emails and
Speaker 2: advertising for child porn stories. He didn't sign up, and
Speaker 2: he tried to ignore them, but the emails kept coming,
Speaker 2: and he tried so hard not to look, but he looked,
Speaker 2: and you know, they said, she's waiting for you, give
Speaker 2: her what she wants. The tears well in his eyes.
Speaker 2: This man is talented. He couldn't think about anything else
Speaker 2: he brought, so he bought the story and he copied
Speaker 2: the story in his actions, and it told me, you know,
Speaker 2: he says, it told me exactly what to do. Nothing
Speaker 2: further for Cabot, but Barry's obviously going to fuck this
Speaker 2: guy up. He brings up a case for nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: nine for the abuse of a thirteen year old girl,
Speaker 2: and he goes and did a story make you do that. No,
Speaker 2: how about a ten year old in California in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety five? Another story to blame? No, what was when
Speaker 2: was the first time you were attracted to young girls?
Speaker 3: That was porn?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Or were you just sick in the head.
Speaker 2: He's like, I don't know, And Barry's like, stop trying
Speaker 2: to blame something else for your issues. And he cries
Speaker 2: and is like, they wouldn't leave me alone while I
Speaker 2: was trying to control my feelings. And he says, but
Speaker 2: tell me, Tommy, did you enjoy kidnapping Sheri? And he
Speaker 2: says yes, And I'm like, lie, lie on the sand,
Speaker 2: what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Can I also say that?
Speaker 1: It says he that the chemical crustration worked for two years,
Speaker 1: but they were two years while you were in jail,
Speaker 1: because the email started coming.
Speaker 3: Right after he got out of jail.
Speaker 1: Now I know, so for two years that you're in jail,
Speaker 1: not around any children, it worked. How can we say
Speaker 1: that that's working there's no children around. Maybe you're just
Speaker 1: like not having the thoughts anyway, And that just hit me.
Speaker 2: So so then he goes, did you have second thoughts
Speaker 2: over what you were doing? He says yes, and then
Speaker 2: Barry is like so you knew it was wrong, and
Speaker 2: he does, and he says yes, and he cries again,
Speaker 2: why aren't you lying? Barry says, whose fault is that?
Speaker 2: He says mine, He sniffles. The porn guy shifts in
Speaker 2: his seat, like I have play and so I gotta
Speaker 2: get out of here. And then the poorn guy is
Speaker 2: on the stand. He goes, listen, I have kids. The
Speaker 2: last thing I would do is make kitty porn. And
Speaker 2: then he said that he made this product for people
Speaker 2: with youth preferences, and Cabot's like, you mean pedophiles, and
Speaker 2: he's like, maybe a small percentagear, but hey, it happens.
Speaker 2: So she pivots and asks if he makes any effort
Speaker 2: and to minimize marketing to sex offenders. He goes, we
Speaker 2: market to people over twenty one who enjoy adult entertainment.
Speaker 2: And so she says, you think child's rape is entertainment.
Speaker 2: He says it is not against the law to explore
Speaker 2: the dark side of human nature, and they fight back
Speaker 2: and forth about kitty porn versus virtual pornography. He says
Speaker 2: it's a safe release, and she goes, you don't care
Speaker 2: if it's safe or not. You just want people to
Speaker 2: pay for your porn. Barry objects, Cabot says nothing further,
Speaker 2: but Billings goes to sit. The judge asks for counsel
Speaker 2: to meet up at the bench. So the judge asks
Speaker 2: for counsel to meet at the bench, and Barry's like, listen,
Speaker 2: she doesn't have she didn't meet the burden of proof.
Speaker 2: You're on her and the jury might convict for emotional
Speaker 2: reasons but no evidence. And the judge agrees she has
Speaker 2: to prove that the defendant knew that Tommy was likely
Speaker 2: to commit a crime. She will dismiss the case and
Speaker 2: she only has it until tomorrow. Gavel Gavel, recess. And
Speaker 2: I love this judge's soft tone speaking voice. It was
Speaker 2: very asmr and soothing to me. Cabots at the bar drinking,
Speaker 2: and Novak would never Novak would be doing work, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Go write a report?
Speaker 3: What are you doing at the bar?
Speaker 2: So Craigan goes to check up on her, and she's like, fuck,
Speaker 2: I need a smoking gun. And Cragan and co. Are
Speaker 2: looking and they just can't find anything. And Cabot's like, listen,
Speaker 2: this dude is all business. I just don't believe that
Speaker 2: he did not target sex offenders, like, this is no accident.
Speaker 2: He Craigan orders a ginger ale and goes, I can
Speaker 2: resist everything except temptation. And then that's a light bulb
Speaker 2: moment for Alex and she's like, oh, She's like Hedges
Speaker 2: said he tried to resist. I wonder just how much
Speaker 2: he was tempted. And so she is coked up and
Speaker 2: talking to Tommy in his cell. How many times? How
Speaker 2: many times did Excel email you ads for their porn?
Speaker 2: He says fifty or sixty. He only opened one. He
Speaker 2: deleted the rest of them. He selected opt out options
Speaker 2: to get off the list, but emails kept coming, so boom.
Speaker 2: Barry and Billings meet with Cabot, and Billings is yelling
Speaker 2: and he's like, I got a ton of employees, so
Speaker 2: we made a mistake, like one request, like not my problem,
Speaker 2: and they go, not one request twenty one times in
Speaker 2: a row. This is not an accident, it's a policy.
Speaker 2: Barry's like, nice, try out, but not aggressive advertising isn't
Speaker 2: against the law, and she's like, fine, we'll see what
Speaker 2: the jury says. Barry gives his freedom of speech closing argument,
Speaker 2: and Cabot gets up and is like, obviously, Tommy's a murderer.
Speaker 2: But Stanley played a part in this crime and he
Speaker 2: is morally guilty, but you have to figure out if
Speaker 2: he's legally guilty as well.
Speaker 3: And the answer is yes.
Speaker 2: They put a deadly weapon in his hand even after
Speaker 2: he said no twenty one times, so you are responsible,
Speaker 2: she slaid that. So now the jury comes back and
Speaker 2: they've reached a verdict guilty.
Speaker 3: He is shook. Cabot is shook. She looks proud.
Speaker 2: Barry says congrats, and he's like, I'll see you on appeal,
Speaker 2: and you got your conviction without stomping on the constitution.
Speaker 3: Way to go.
Speaker 2: He's very proud, and she's like, well, people are still
Speaker 2: using AI porns, so maybe not a full success. And
Speaker 2: they enter the elevator together and he says everybody won,
Speaker 2: and she says not Cherie Latham, And that's the end,
Speaker 2: because it's not a game. Barry Mordoc, you wisted little guy.
Speaker 2: And you know, our girls really do work for the victims.
Speaker 2: And this was a very beautiful end.
Speaker 1: But it's like this guy does have money, and Barry
Speaker 1: Mordock's right, like, he'll just appeal and appeal until this
Speaker 1: gets tossed out. We've seen other cases like that. You know,
Speaker 1: like this is like, it's great that she got the conviction,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it will stand up for a while.
Speaker 1: But thank you for that beautiful recap. Take a listen
Speaker 1: to these words from our sponsors and we'll be right back.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So I know that in this case they actually referenced
Speaker 1: jean Benet, but if you watch the episode, like, there's
Speaker 1: really not that much of a similarity to it, Like
Speaker 1: the case like it starts with like a little bit
Speaker 1: of a jambreet red herring, but it doesn't go the
Speaker 1: same way. So there's another episode, an SVU that does
Speaker 1: reference Joan Benemore resembles Jeanne more closely. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to save that for that. This case does resemble a
Speaker 1: cold case from Utah, the murder of a three year
Speaker 1: old beauty queen named Rachel Runyan. I had no ideas
Speaker 1: I know, I had no idea you could put kids
Speaker 1: in pageants. And she was like two when she won
Speaker 1: the pageant. I think it was the year before she
Speaker 1: went missing. So Rachel was the middle child with two brothers,
Speaker 1: being raised in Sunset, Utah, where the year before her
Speaker 1: abduction and murder, she had won the title of Little
Speaker 1: Miss Sunset. On August twenty sixth, nineteen eighty two, Rachel
Speaker 1: was playing in a playground fifteen feet from her family's home.
Speaker 1: So the mom said she was making lunch and she
Speaker 1: could actually see her kids at this playground and she
Speaker 1: was communicating to them, and when she called them in
Speaker 1: for lunch, she was out there with her two brothers.
Speaker 1: The kids came in back without the sister because apparently
Speaker 1: a young black man had approached them and tried to
Speaker 1: lure them with candy. The guy played with the three
Speaker 1: kids for a few minutes, and I don't know why
Speaker 1: the mom didn't see that, but then they walked part
Speaker 1: of the way to his car before thinking better of it,
Speaker 1: and the older brother, justin age five, was like, Rachel,
Speaker 1: don't go with him. And when Rachel turned to walk away,
Speaker 1: the guy just grabbed her and put her in his car,
Speaker 1: screaming and took off in a blue nineteen seventy three
Speaker 1: Ford Pinto Squire station wagon with woodgrain stripes on the side,
Speaker 1: a very distinct car. Their mother called the police when
Speaker 1: only the two sons return home. First, she checked a
Speaker 1: supermarket because the brother said he was going to take
Speaker 1: us to the supermarket for ice cream. So she ran
Speaker 1: to the supermarket asking if anyone had seen this man
Speaker 1: with her daughter, then called the police. Like, so it's
Speaker 1: twenty minutes now, this is a missing white girl in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, So of course a task force was
Speaker 1: set up immediately. Through Justin and another kid who was
Speaker 1: also approached by this man at the playground, they were
Speaker 1: able to put together a description that this man was black,
Speaker 1: thirty to thirty five, six feet tall, medium billed, afro,
Speaker 1: handlebar mustache. However, Jason, now an adult, has claimed more
Speaker 1: recently that it was a Hispanic man who took his sister.
Speaker 1: He thought that it was more. He was described as
Speaker 1: a light, complexted black man. But this guy, Justin is like,
Speaker 1: they believe the older kid because he was ten and
Speaker 1: I was, but I think the guy was Latino. But
Speaker 1: the only witnesses were kids. There were no video foot
Speaker 1: there was no video footage, there was no forensic evidence.
Speaker 1: Tips came in, but they ultimately went nowhere. There was
Speaker 1: a ton of publicity around this case. The parents flew
Speaker 1: to New York City for a press conference. They went
Speaker 1: on The Today Show, offered a twenty thousand dollars reward.
Speaker 1: It was big news back then and then about sadly.
Speaker 1: About three weeks after her abduction, a family that was
Speaker 1: like playing in a stream in Mountain Green, Utah, about
Speaker 1: fifty miles from sunset, discovered what they thought was a doll,
Speaker 1: but it was Rachel, naked with her hands bound behind
Speaker 1: her back, much like the victim in Little Cherie in
Speaker 1: the episode Family I d'd her from a chip tooth
Speaker 1: and her ear piercings, but the body was so decomposed
Speaker 1: at that point that cause of death was never determined.
Speaker 1: Her parents had a funeral for her, and her gravestone
Speaker 1: read she brought a nation to its knees. So her
Speaker 1: murder prompted the Rachel Alert, which was a child's adduction
Speaker 1: alert system in two thousand and two, and it was
Speaker 1: used in the disappe pherence of Elizabeth Smart in O
Speaker 1: two and in the abduction of three month old Nicholas
Speaker 1: Triplett in O three. Both kids were found alive, but
Speaker 1: then in three it was replaced by the nationwide Amber
Speaker 1: Alert system.
Speaker 3: Also, she died in eighty two.
Speaker 1: It took twenty years for them to call it the
Speaker 1: Rachel Alert thing, But you know, I guess two thousand
Speaker 1: and two is when those kinds of things started coming out.
Speaker 1: The case also prompted the passage of the US Congressional
Speaker 1: Missing Children's Act in nineteen eighty three, mandating additional resources
Speaker 1: going towards ongoing missing children cases and getting descriptions of
Speaker 1: missing children into an FBI National Crime Information database. And
Speaker 1: in Utah they test the Amber Alert twice a year,
Speaker 1: and one of the dates is on eight twenty six
Speaker 1: the anniversary of her abduction. In May of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: the park where she was abducted from was renamed Rachel
Speaker 1: Runyan Memorial Park. Very very sad. And then this is
Speaker 1: one of Utah's most famous cold cases. They do not
Speaker 1: know who did this. And in twenty twenty two a
Speaker 1: woman claimed her uncle may have been the one who
Speaker 1: killed Rachel, but the Sunset police like didn't really find
Speaker 1: it credible enough to investigate, and so still at large.
Speaker 1: It's been forty years since she was killed and nothing.
Speaker 1: It's sad because it reminded me of that case that
Speaker 1: we covered in Conscience where the kid just went for
Speaker 1: a walk, like one hundred feet to his school at
Speaker 1: the end of the road or something, and somebody and
Speaker 1: a kid got him, you know, or but in this
Speaker 1: case it was four blocks in the shar relay than case.
Speaker 1: And in this she was at a playground fifteen feet
Speaker 1: outside the mom's window. She said she was making lunch
Speaker 1: and talking to the kids like while they were playing.
Speaker 3: So it's really so sad.
Speaker 1: But and like in the pictures of her, obviously her
Speaker 1: picture that's most publicized is like her as a beauty queen,
Speaker 1: and she is very cute. But it's why do you
Speaker 1: need to put two year olds and three year olds
Speaker 1: and beauty pageants?
Speaker 3: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: Like by the time they're eight or nine, if they're begging,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you do. I still wouldn't do it,
Speaker 1: but they're asking for it, Like a two or three
Speaker 1: year old, does she know what she's even doing competing
Speaker 1: in a beauty pageant?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So this episode also deals with the legality and ethics
Speaker 1: regarding computer generated child sex abuse material, which I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna call se Sam from now on because I am
Speaker 1: saying it so much.
Speaker 3: And this is a huge issue right now.
Speaker 1: Like when I google this, there were like ten recent
Speaker 1: articles talking about this, Like does this kind of material
Speaker 1: encourage predators, as the episode clearly is taking that stance,
Speaker 1: or does it protect children by providing victimless child sex
Speaker 1: abuse images? So let's talk about it. Because the dawn
Speaker 1: of AI is upon us. This is becoming more and
Speaker 1: more common. I found so much about this. The Washington
Speaker 1: Post said that in June that thousands of AI generated
Speaker 1: child sex images had been found on the Dark Web,
Speaker 1: and that seems like thousands seems like a low number,
Speaker 1: like I would assume there would be millions, especially if
Speaker 1: computers are just like churning these out. Rebecca Portnoff, who
Speaker 1: is the director of Data Science at Thorn, which is
Speaker 1: Ashton Kutcher's nonprofit about seesam and.
Speaker 3: Child trafficking that anymore, baby, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But she said quote children's images, including the content of
Speaker 1: known victims, are being repurposed for this really evil output.
Speaker 1: So it's not just like you're creating like a child
Speaker 1: like a child's sex abuse image out of nowhere. It
Speaker 1: is being mined from actual photos of victims as well
Speaker 1: as just images of children. So Thorn has witnessed a
Speaker 1: month over month increase in the number of these images
Speaker 1: as of late, especially since chat GPT all this stuff
Speaker 1: started coming into the fold really mainstream wise a few
Speaker 1: months ago. While there are systems in place to block
Speaker 1: these kinds of images from the Internet, the systems are
Speaker 1: designed to catch known child sex abuse images, not newly
Speaker 1: generated images. Like they can't just catch they can't just
Speaker 1: like recognize what's a bad image. They just they have
Speaker 1: to be told what's bad images. And this can fuck
Speaker 1: up law enforcement as well, who are already underwater trying
Speaker 1: to identify actual victims, which we discussed in Collateral Damages,
Speaker 1: Like remember the guy who was in the office was
Speaker 1: just like the dead eyes, and like it's just a
Speaker 1: never ending like game of whack mole to try to
Speaker 1: find who's behind these images. And so now they're gonna
Speaker 1: have to spend time figuring out what images are real
Speaker 1: versus generated, And it's hard to know how to prioritize
Speaker 1: cases when you don't know. The Washington Posts had a
Speaker 1: quote that said Justice Apartment officials who combat child exploitations
Speaker 1: say such images still are illegal even if the child
Speaker 1: shown is AI generated, But they could cite no case
Speaker 1: in which someone had been charged for creating one, So.
Speaker 3: The legal area is very great here.
Speaker 1: There's a company called Stability AI which runs a diffusion
Speaker 1: model called stable Diffusion.
Speaker 3: So diffusion models are like.
Speaker 1: An AI tool that can create a convincing image just
Speaker 1: by typing in a prompt. So essentially probably it sounds
Speaker 1: like what chat gpt does, but these, I guess are
Speaker 1: more precise tools. Like one is called Dolly Dall dash
Speaker 1: E one is called mid Journey, and then Stable Diffusion.
Speaker 1: These are a few of the big diffusion models. So
Speaker 1: the company that owns that is called Stability AI, and
Speaker 1: they said in a statement that they ban the creation
Speaker 1: of child sex abuse images and assists law enforcement and
Speaker 1: investigations into quote unquote illegal or malicious uses, and has
Speaker 1: removed explicit material from its training data, reducing the quote
Speaker 1: ability for bad actors to generate ob seeing content. But
Speaker 1: the problem is the tool is available to anyone, it's
Speaker 1: open source, and they can use it however they want.
Speaker 1: So even though you click a little box that says
Speaker 1: I will not use this to exploit or harm miners
Speaker 1: in any way, the features that flag this cut type
Speaker 1: of content are very easy to get around. It's very
Speaker 1: easy to like code around it. If you're just like
Speaker 1: a person that knows computers and the trust me these
Speaker 1: guys are on the dark Web comparing notes on how
Speaker 1: to do this.
Speaker 3: Shit so stability.
Speaker 1: AI's chief executive is named Amaud Mustack. He told Verge
Speaker 1: another publication called Verge. He said, quote, Ultimately, it's people's
Speaker 1: responsibility as to whether they're ethical, moral and legal and
Speaker 1: how they operate this technology. The bad stuff that people
Speaker 1: create will be a very very small percentage of the
Speaker 1: total use. That's what this guy says. On dark Web,
Speaker 1: pedophile fours users openly discuss how to create this c
Speaker 1: SAM and get around porn filters, and one of the
Speaker 1: ways they do it is by creating like by using
Speaker 1: non English languages, which they don't think are getting monitors
Speaker 1: as heavily as English language stuff. They also chat about
Speaker 1: creating fake underage personas to win over young targets online,
Speaker 1: Like it's not even just about making gross images. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: here's a picture of me, and it's like a picture
Speaker 1: of a little girl you created as a pedophile that
Speaker 1: you're using to befriend another kid on the internet. AI
Speaker 1: generated c SAM exists in a legal gray area because
Speaker 1: fully AI generated images do not depict a real child
Speaker 1: being harmed. And I think this might be what they
Speaker 1: were talking about when they were railing against the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court in this episode. In two thousand and two, the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court struck down two provisions of a nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: six congressional ban on virtual child pornography, ruling that the
Speaker 1: wording was broad enough to potentially criminalize literary depictions of
Speaker 1: teenage sexuality. So they they, you know, were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're the way that you're describing this is too broad,
Speaker 1: Like we might not be able to have some of
Speaker 1: the you know, literature that we have. It would be
Speaker 1: too constrictive this law. So but the problem is, back
Speaker 1: then generated Se Salem was pretty distinguishable from the Sea
Speaker 1: Salm that featured actual victims. Like back then, it was like,
Speaker 1: what is this Like probably looked like our PowerPoint presentations
Speaker 1: on when we're on the doing our live shows, like
Speaker 1: not very it's not very technically you know, advanced images.
Speaker 1: But now the gap between those types of images has
Speaker 1: closed almost completely. It's like very hard to tell the
Speaker 1: difference between what is real and what's fake. So, according
Speaker 1: to The Washington Post, two officials with the Justice Department's
Speaker 1: Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section said that the images are
Speaker 1: illegal under a law that bans any computer generated image
Speaker 1: that is sexually explicit and depicts someone who is quote
Speaker 1: virtually indistinguishable from a real child. So it sounds like
Speaker 1: it's illegal, but then it also sounds like there's ways
Speaker 1: around it. It's even if it's illegal, it seems like
Speaker 1: it's impossible to police. Another federal law, which passed in
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, all around the time that this
Speaker 1: episode came out, bans any computer generated image showing a
Speaker 1: child engaging in sexually explicit conduct if it is obscene
Speaker 1: and lacks serious artistic value. The law notes that, quote
Speaker 1: it is not a required element of any offense that
Speaker 1: the minor depicted actually exist.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 1: So that sounds like good laws, But I just don't
Speaker 1: know if we are figuring out a way to stop
Speaker 1: this from being disseminated so quickly and in such huge volume.
Speaker 1: There are some proposed solutions, including digital watermarks, but that's
Speaker 1: all just being figured out, Like everyone would have to
Speaker 1: get on board with digital watermarks, like using the same
Speaker 1: kind of system, and like one guy said, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like we're we're doing this while riding a bike
Speaker 1: or something like that. I forgot what his term was,
Speaker 1: but it was like, we're basically we're building the plane
Speaker 1: while we're flying in it or something whatever phrases, Like,
Speaker 1: the whole technology is just growing and changing at such
Speaker 1: a rapid pace. So the legislation obviously, as we know,
Speaker 1: is what moves at a snail's pace. And a huge problem,
Speaker 1: it seems also, is that this type of child sex
Speaker 1: abuse material can be produced so quickly and such huge
Speaker 1: quantity that it can serve to normalize sexualizing children or
Speaker 1: make sexual abuse seem commonplace. Plus we forget that a
Speaker 1: lot of predators use these kind of materials to persuade
Speaker 1: children that it's normal, like, oh, look, do you want
Speaker 1: to try this?
Speaker 3: This seems normal?
Speaker 1: And it's like a fully generated image of maybe even
Speaker 1: a child looking happy doing what they're doing. You know. Like,
Speaker 1: so it's really fucked up, and I hope we figure
Speaker 1: out something with it. Another thing this episode touched on
Speaker 1: that I do think is interesting is the recidivism among
Speaker 1: child predators and like pedophiles. And I guess there's this
Speaker 1: whole thing where like an article came out many many
Speaker 1: years ago that says that eighty percent of pedophiles reoffend,
Speaker 1: and apparently that tistic is just made up, and the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has literally quoted that before, like everybody thinks
Speaker 1: that's the statistic.
Speaker 3: And it's not true.
Speaker 1: But there is so much information on the recidivism, and
Speaker 1: I truly could not tell what was legit and what wasn't.
Speaker 1: Like there were law papers, but it's like I can't tell.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm qualified to talk about such a
Speaker 1: huge topic when there's so much information out there about
Speaker 1: that and their studies, and I don't know how to
Speaker 1: interpret studies because I'm not a scholar.
Speaker 3: So but it is interesting.
Speaker 1: I did read a bunch of stuff that was saying, like,
Speaker 1: is the thing about child sex offenders reoffending? Is it overblown?
Speaker 1: But you guys can check that out. The internet is
Speaker 1: at your disposal, sadly, and that's that. Why is everything
Speaker 1: so complicated? I know these I feel like they have
Speaker 1: to figure out a watermark system, Like they have to
Speaker 1: figure out some kind of watermark system that. But I
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to stop what the people are
Speaker 1: using this material for.
Speaker 3: It's all too much, all right, Yeah, let's keep it moving.
Speaker 3: Let's keep it moving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's get it to our post mortem.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: So the post mortem is bleak because it feels like
Speaker 1: child's computer generated sex abuse material is uh, child sex
Speaker 1: abuse material is the future, and it's gonna be like
Speaker 1: whack a mole. I know you're very good at wacka mole,
Speaker 1: but it feels like it's going to be impossible whack
Speaker 1: a mole to get rid of and.
Speaker 3: Fuck yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting that I could not find like definitive
Speaker 1: literature or like anything about whether pedophiles can be rehabilitated.
Speaker 1: Like if you do, like dangle this kind of material
Speaker 1: in front of people, are they gonna bite no matter what,
Speaker 1: even if they have been like, are doing chemical crasstration
Speaker 1: or whatever? You know?
Speaker 3: Are we just talking or are you doing it right now?
Speaker 3: We're doing a post mortem?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Oh you are? Okay? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I just felt like you were talking to me.
Speaker 2: You usually don't really talk to me during these, so
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 3: Wait, what do you mean I don't usually talk to
Speaker 3: you during these? You usually just present the post mortem. No,
Speaker 3: you're talking about what would sister PEG do when I
Speaker 3: present it?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm like, have I been doing one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty episodes of you not looking at you during
Speaker 1: the post mortem?
Speaker 3: What the fuck are you talking about? I fucked up.
Speaker 3: I thought you're doing what was sister peg and I
Speaker 3: just got our friends and child.
Speaker 1: That makes sense because Casey was just asking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, we should leave this all in.
Speaker 2: But I was just looking at flights quickly because I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'll change my flight so I can
Speaker 2: make it to our friend's daughter's birthday. And then you're
Speaker 2: looking at me and I'm like what, bitch, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be dark, and then we fully have lost it.
Speaker 2: If you're tuning in for the first time, we're usually
Speaker 2: a little more on top of it.
Speaker 3: But we're getting all.
Speaker 1: Of this in.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: I think it's fun. They need to see us, they
Speaker 2: need to see us for who we are. I remember
Speaker 2: there was one comment someone was mad at us about
Speaker 2: something and they're like, how you portray yourself? And I'm like,
Speaker 2: we get to be ourselves. We don't have h I
Speaker 2: guess we do have HR, but they don't. They told
Speaker 2: me not to say cunt once and I said, I'll
Speaker 2: walk walk. Are we feminism or are we not feminism?
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you. Yes, Oh, this
Speaker 2: is horrible. Pedophiles are horrible. Child pageants are horrible. I
Speaker 2: you know, children should be able to like live their dream.
Speaker 2: I always hate when it's like you shouldn't wear that
Speaker 2: there are pedophiles. It's like no, no, no, kids should be
Speaker 2: able to wear what they want, be what they want.
Speaker 2: I think young children's girls should be able to not
Speaker 2: have to wear a bikini top. Like what is this
Speaker 2: fucking anti pedophile theater we're doing?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: So I think children, you know, if volleyball uniform, like,
Speaker 2: we should be able to wear what we want as youth.
Speaker 2: But something about pageantry is not that for me. Pageantry yeah,
Speaker 2: it's too It's like you're you're come and get it.
Speaker 2: That's what I feel you're doing.
Speaker 1: I mean fact, like I understand, like, look, pageants, when
Speaker 1: you get older, when you're like in your teens or twenties,
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, there's scholarship involved, like like there's
Speaker 1: a philanthropy aspect. Okay, fine, if that's your dream, fine,
Speaker 1: but like once your post puberty and you can like
Speaker 1: understand what like you know what you're even getting into.
Speaker 1: Like I don't really get what a three or a
Speaker 1: four year old or a five year old or a
Speaker 1: six year old really is getting out of pageantry, like
Speaker 1: just like having makeup on and doing your hair. But
Speaker 1: happy to hear from parents of people who put their
Speaker 1: kids into pageants that young. I just don't get it
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, I think it's like mom's I think it's
Speaker 2: parents living because that dad in the episode, like that
Speaker 2: was for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if I worshipped her, I would like never
Speaker 1: say that language about my children, but like.
Speaker 2: Toddlers and tiaras, like it's like the mom is obviously like, wow,
Speaker 2: my kid is pretty, and I'm not so I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do this to her, Yeah, no offense.
Speaker 1: And then well yeah, or like I did pageants and
Speaker 1: I never got that far, but I know my daughter
Speaker 1: could get farther, you know, like that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, because I like the talent of
Speaker 2: it all. I like the speech portions. I even love
Speaker 2: the creativity, like put on a fun outfit. I think
Speaker 2: it's the the nose job in the episode, the eyelashes,
Speaker 2: the wigs, the it's just it's the flipper or they.
Speaker 3: Get a little flipper.
Speaker 1: If they're missing their two front teeth, they get a
Speaker 1: little fake two front teeth called.
Speaker 2: I mean even I actually don't even hate the flipper.
Speaker 2: The Flipper's fine because these these kids look disgusting with
Speaker 2: the holes in their mouth.
Speaker 3: I'm for flippers. They have gap tooth. Bitch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I'm I'm pro flipper.
Speaker 3: That's that's what I'm That's what I'm part of.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, there's just better activities. There's just because
Speaker 2: I believe, you know, I believe group sports, team sports
Speaker 2: really help kids.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to our what would Sister peg do?
Speaker 1: Our weekly segment where we point you to more resources
Speaker 1: that can help flesh out today's topics. I'm obviously not
Speaker 1: going to point you to anything about child pageantry, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to get eyes on an article about child
Speaker 1: sexual abuse material that's featured on the site for National
Speaker 1: Center for Missing and Exploited Children. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: data about how many victims there are of c SAM,
Speaker 1: like what the overarching issues are.
Speaker 3: The data is all there.
Speaker 1: There's also resources for victims, so that's at the National
Speaker 1: Center for Missing Unexploited Children.
Speaker 3: It's Missing Kids dot org.
Speaker 1: But there's specific article that we're linking to in our
Speaker 1: show notes as well as in our Instagram stories the
Speaker 1: day that this episode comes out and saved forever in
Speaker 1: our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page and.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that very important and next week we'll
Speaker 2: be doing Secrets, Season two, episode twelve Secrets.
Speaker 3: You guys are the best.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening, for coming to live shows,
Speaker 1: for writing us, for complimenting us. We love you forever
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: Mai, That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see us show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina.
Speaker 1: Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest
Speaker 1: booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme
Speaker 1: song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers, Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media, Dun dun