Speaker 1: Ah, what's artificial my intelligence? I am Robert Evans. This
Speaker 1: is Behind the Bastards, a podcast that's not about AI
Speaker 1: large language model learning tools, but might be because I
Speaker 1: so I want to commit confess something to you, Sophie,
Speaker 1: and to you uh uh Matt leeb that that's been
Speaker 1: getting it's been trouble to remember my name, dude. Sorry,
Speaker 1: so Matt, Sophie. I've been thinking about playing around with
Speaker 1: some of these these AIS that everybody's getting into, where
Speaker 1: you can like have them generate images and shit right
Speaker 1: where they Yeah, seems kind of cool, but I haven't
Speaker 1: done it yet because I can't get a specific prompt
Speaker 1: out of my head, which is a hybrid of of
Speaker 1: of Um of Epstein and Carle ray Jepson that's just
Speaker 1: called Carly ray Jepstein. I don't know why it won't
Speaker 1: leave my head. It's an intrusive thought. I can't get
Speaker 1: rid of it. Um. But yeah, yeah, so I bet
Speaker 1: they could do a great job AI. You know, they
Speaker 1: make all sorts of combinations. I love it. You're a
Speaker 1: little imingle over call me maybe same song with Carly
Speaker 1: ray Jepstein, different different, different subtext. Um. Oh god, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in trouble for that. We're bleeping that. Look,
Speaker 1: we will, we will do this. But I yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: I did have a little red Corvette parody I did
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey Epstein that people did not appreciate. Matt. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, you know, that was if it's parody song,
Speaker 1: I feel like parody. That's what I felt. But when
Speaker 1: I sang, well, they're all wrong, I'm not even gonna
Speaker 1: sing the second verse because please, we're bleeping, we're belief
Speaker 1: all of this. We're cutting a large Oh boy, that
Speaker 1: was a fun forty five seconds of material that would
Speaker 1: have ended both of our careers. I'm Matt, Yeah that
Speaker 1: was great. I'm trying to die so, you know, and me,
Speaker 1: you and I both got the Oh wow. You stopped
Speaker 1: me from making my next joke, which was going to
Speaker 1: be to say that we both contracted the Epstein. Oh
Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. That's when you get
Speaker 1: drunk and make Jeffrey Epstein jokes that get you canceled.
Speaker 1: Get it, get it. That's not a bad one. Okay,
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't hate it, But my god, we have
Speaker 1: to end in a lot. Out of this beginning we've
Speaker 1: been rec forty five years we have we have all
Speaker 1: forty five years have been cut. If you want to
Speaker 1: hear the cut versions, go to the dot com. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: the truths behind the Bastards. Yeah, this is where Matt
Speaker 1: matt Leeb and I matt Leeb and I have a
Speaker 1: weekly podcast where we do our b sides with Jordan Person.
Speaker 1: We drink a single pint of cider. We don't sleep
Speaker 1: for twenty seven days. It's a great time. So let's
Speaker 1: move on from the unpleasant story. You're making Epstein jokes
Speaker 1: and you're laughing about it. Look, we have to move
Speaker 1: on from the depressing tale of Jordan Peterson to talk
Speaker 1: about a less sad individual, Joseph Mangola. Um oops. So
Speaker 1: in his early days at school, Mangola still leaned towards
Speaker 1: dentistry as a career due to the fact again his
Speaker 1: homeland had or his hometown had no dentists. But of
Speaker 1: course it's his conversation that he asked with his friend
Speaker 1: Julius Diisbach, who's a year older than him, who tells
Speaker 1: him dentistries too specialize. You should do a broader thing.
Speaker 1: You like anthropology. There's a degree program and anthropology and
Speaker 1: genetics just do that. So he decides to take his
Speaker 1: friend's advice and kind of so some people will argue
Speaker 1: that Mangola was a narcissist. You know, I'm not a
Speaker 1: I can't diagnose anybody with anything. Um, it's certainly a
Speaker 1: thing that gets brought up by including by like professionals
Speaker 1: who go over his notes and stuff. Because he wrote
Speaker 1: a memoir and years later if TikTok has taught me anything,
Speaker 1: oh for sure, for sure he had that add he
Speaker 1: actually is your keys. Yeah. So I don't really know
Speaker 1: how to finish that joke, mat But what I do
Speaker 1: know is that David Marwell will point out that, like
Speaker 1: there's evidence kind of in his later writings that he
Speaker 1: sort of mythologizes this conversation with his friend D's back
Speaker 1: where these backs like, hey, you know, maybe consider doing
Speaker 1: a broader thing, he writes. Quote, despite the circumstances a
Speaker 1: casual conversation, Mingola's choice was not superficial. Indeed, he claims
Speaker 1: it awakened a passion in him. I had no idea
Speaker 1: then of the mini cited nature of medicine, but the
Speaker 1: kindled flame of enthusiasm would retain its warmth if not
Speaker 1: it's brilliant luminosity forever. How was it possible in so
Speaker 1: short a time to transform someone who was, one could
Speaker 1: almost say, resigned, to someone who was enchanted. Mingola answered
Speaker 1: his own question by suggesting that his friend had unlicked
Speaker 1: to potential that was already present within him. Diesbach was
Speaker 1: a magician, filled with the beauty, grandeur, and high values
Speaker 1: of his science and art, who did not speak of
Speaker 1: the practical possibilities of medicine or the possibility for employment. Rather,
Speaker 1: he knew only, probably quite unconsciously, how to incite my
Speaker 1: scientific curiosity and how to translate it into enthusiasm for
Speaker 1: such a versatile subject. He need it only to tell
Speaker 1: me which subjects I would need to take in the
Speaker 1: first semester, and my decision was unshakable, as if I
Speaker 1: had never even thought of another subject to study. Mangola
Speaker 1: elevated the intervention of his friend at just the right
Speaker 1: moment to mythic proportions, comparing the encounter to that if
Speaker 1: Athena visiting Odysseus in the form of a deer. The
Speaker 1: eerie fact that he never saw his friend again caused
Speaker 1: him to muse that perhaps it really had been Athena
Speaker 1: in disguise. That dude definitely just said I gotta get
Speaker 1: the fuck away from Yeah, they're just like talk and
Speaker 1: Bappo's life. Maybe I should be a dentist. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you seem more interfitt in anthropology. Are
Speaker 1: you a Greek god? Are you mad? Jake? You know what, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to another country. I feel like Germany
Speaker 1: is not in a good mark here. If you flame
Speaker 1: inside my soul, a flame that tells me to dude,
Speaker 1: so horrible jeans. I just imagine like Desbak becomes like
Speaker 1: a like a pediatrician or something. He moves to Iowa,
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen forty five. He's like waking up in
Speaker 1: the morning, he puts on the radio, he's got a
Speaker 1: cup of coffee. Story about Mangela comes on. He's like,
Speaker 1: ah shit, oh boy, I can't tell anybody about this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't inspire. Never knew him, never knew him. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: my name is Disbach, not Desbak. Yeah sorry, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you got the wrong guy. Wrong guy. I've never been
Speaker 1: to Germany. Um So I don't know the message of
Speaker 1: this is, never inspire your friends if your if your
Speaker 1: friends say I want to be a dentist, say yeah,
Speaker 1: teeth fucking rule bro? Yeah whatever, Yeah, I am not
Speaker 1: getting involved. You never know where the branch. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the fuck you should do. Why are you
Speaker 1: talking to me? I'm not athen a fuck off? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If a friend ever asked you what to do with
Speaker 1: their life, tell them I am not a god. I
Speaker 1: don't know. World needs janitors. Many janitors have pretty much
Speaker 1: never done anything wrong. Do something simple and valuable. Yes, So.
Speaker 1: Mangelis first few years in school were characterized by a
Speaker 1: growing obsession with genetics and evolution. The men who tutored him,
Speaker 1: first in Munich and then in Frankfurt were adherents of
Speaker 1: a school of evolutionary theory that believed modern society and
Speaker 1: social justice movements had corrupted the purity of Darwinian evolution.
Speaker 1: There's a big attitude among the Nazis, very similar wording
Speaker 1: to what the right use of today. That social justice,
Speaker 1: which they called it, was a Jewish invention, right, and
Speaker 1: it was specifically it was part of an insidious Jewish plot,
Speaker 1: because if you believe all the shit about race science,
Speaker 1: then doing stuff like feeding the starving like putting vagrants
Speaker 1: in housing. You're doing that to weaken the bloodline of
Speaker 1: the Germans by allowing those people to persist in breed,
Speaker 1: and so it's an attempt to betray Germany for the
Speaker 1: next war. If you've wondered, why are the social justice
Speaker 1: stuff on the right, like where a lot of that
Speaker 1: comes from. That's a big part of it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you scratch it a little bit, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you get into like Judeoe Bolshevism or some
Speaker 1: weird shit cultural Marxism, and then there's like, for some reason,
Speaker 1: a star of David. You're like, oh, okay. So one
Speaker 1: of Joseph's first mentors was doctor Ernst Rudin, who was
Speaker 1: a prominent backer of the idea that doctors should proactively
Speaker 1: destroy what he called life devoid of value. This would
Speaker 1: evolve into the Nazi concept of life unworthy of life,
Speaker 1: which is kind of the most direct translation of how
Speaker 1: Germans talked about the Nazis talked about this in German.
Speaker 1: Rudin would go on to author the first Nazi compulsory
Speaker 1: sterilization laws, which were instituted in July of nineteen thirty three.
Speaker 1: This is seven months after the Enabling Act. I think
Speaker 1: or seven months after Hitler rises to power. Thing, it's
Speaker 1: a little less than that after the Enabling Act, but
Speaker 1: that should the fact that this happens so quickly, this
Speaker 1: is almost the first thing the Nazis do, should give
Speaker 1: you any idea of the centrality the Nazis placed on
Speaker 1: this idea. The Law for the Protection of Hereditary Health
Speaker 1: provided the first list of conditions that qualified one from
Speaker 1: mandatory sterilization. Schizophrenia, manic depression, epilepsy, hereditary blindness, deafness, Huntington's disease,
Speaker 1: all physical deformities, and what was called feeble mindedness, alcoholism,
Speaker 1: drug addiction. These are all believed to be hereditary and
Speaker 1: thus problems that could only be stopped by excising them
Speaker 1: from the human genome. The fact that alcoholism is on
Speaker 1: there is funny. If you've ever liked spent thirty five
Speaker 1: seconds in Berlin a single, you can buy a leader
Speaker 1: of beer for two dollars and drink it on a train.
Speaker 1: Like clarifying question, what do you consider alcoholism? You just
Speaker 1: just want to know how many beers were talking about? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, very degenerate. Anyone having more than
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty beers a day. You know. Goodles have
Speaker 1: to die, you know, so, yeah, that's some good. It's
Speaker 1: always fun to do jokes like that with the Germans
Speaker 1: because you know, they gave up the right to be office. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like I don't know Texans. So casual observers of
Speaker 1: the Nazi regime often accused Hitler of being obsessed with
Speaker 1: racial purity and believing that Germans were Aryan superman. Now
Speaker 1: it's usually not worth like just correcting people, but that
Speaker 1: is fundamentally wrong. That is not what Hitler believed. He
Speaker 1: did not believe the Germans were Aryan superman. Instead, he
Speaker 1: believed in the perfectability of Aryan descended people like the
Speaker 1: Germans through careful scientific guidance. And that is different. He's
Speaker 1: not saying we are superman. He is saying, using science
Speaker 1: and breeding, we can become superman by excising these these
Speaker 1: like degenerate influences from our bloodline and encouraging people who
Speaker 1: are more pure to breed together. Right, That is a
Speaker 1: that is a different thing. Yeah, he was doing a manifestation,
Speaker 1: you know, he's doing wellness basically, Well, I think I
Speaker 1: think the reason it is worth kind of pointing out
Speaker 1: why the more common belief is wrong is because the
Speaker 1: common belief is just racism, just like, hey, we're better
Speaker 1: than everybody, which is less unsettling and less toxic than
Speaker 1: what the Nazis believed, which is we can make people like.
Speaker 1: A lot of the Holocaust comes because we are attempting
Speaker 1: to make people better, right, that is what Mingle. The
Speaker 1: people he kills will die in service of this goal,
Speaker 1: so it is important to get that right. Obviously. Hitler
Speaker 1: is a massive advocate and supporter of the German medical
Speaker 1: establishment that was the most important part of the German
Speaker 1: state to him, and one of his first speeches is Fearer.
Speaker 1: Hitler addressed the National Socialist German Physicians League or in
Speaker 1: s DAB. He told them that lawyers and engineers and
Speaker 1: architects were all replaceable in his vision of the future.
Speaker 1: None of those career paths were crucial to Nazism succeeding,
Speaker 1: but National Socialist doctors were utterly necessary. He told them,
Speaker 1: I cannot do without you for a single day, not
Speaker 1: a single if not for you, if you fail me,
Speaker 1: then all is lost. For what good are our struggles
Speaker 1: if the health of our people is in danger. Key
Speaker 1: to this idea is the concept that doctors should not
Speaker 1: be concerned primarily with the health of the individual, for
Speaker 1: this is secondary to the health of the Volk or people.
Speaker 1: This means that a Nazi doctor is not violating his
Speaker 1: Hippocratic oath if he sterilizes or kills people as long
Speaker 1: as those people are threats to the well being of
Speaker 1: the people's racial community. Right fun, Yeah, that is why.
Speaker 1: That is how they justify I'm not saying they're not,
Speaker 1: obviously they are in fact violating the hypocritic, but this
Speaker 1: is how they see it. Right and early Nsdab Guideline stated,
Speaker 1: from the first day, we have made it clear that
Speaker 1: the major turnabout in the world view of our days,
Speaker 1: an essential portion of which is vanquishing the individual through
Speaker 1: experiencing the people, must be the guiding principle of the
Speaker 1: morality and ethics of the medical profession. That is a
Speaker 1: crucial phrase. Vanquishing the individual through experiencing the people. That's
Speaker 1: the holocaust. That is the holocaust in a nutshell, Young
Speaker 1: Joseph would spend the best days of his career vanquishing
Speaker 1: individuals in order to support the Volk. He was not
Speaker 1: an immediately committed Nazi, though for in those last days
Speaker 1: of Weimar, the German nationalist right was large enough to
Speaker 1: fill several movements that did not all see eye to eye.
Speaker 1: Rather than joining the Nazis early on in March of
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, he joined the youth wing of the Stahalhelm,
Speaker 1: an ex soldier organization who marched in uniform. And we're
Speaker 1: kind of like a more organized ver you know, like
Speaker 1: the Oathkeepers. How they're mostly like silly bastards. This is
Speaker 1: the Oathkeepers. If they had all spent like four years
Speaker 1: drowning in the blood of their best friends in the
Speaker 1: trash exactly, just yeah, watching all of their homies get
Speaker 1: sucked into yeah mud bogs and sucking in mustard gas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if the oath Keepers had been at J six, they
Speaker 1: would not have been turned away by Mason tier Gas exactly.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, if the Stallhelm sorry had been at J six,
Speaker 1: not the Oathkeepers. They're a bunch of seditious babies. Not
Speaker 1: to praise them. These guys are far right. Their assholes,
Speaker 1: They massacre Communists in the street. They're horrible people. They're
Speaker 1: just frightening. So as he progresses through his studies in
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, he comes to conceive of himself as
Speaker 1: a biological soldier for the health of the Volk, which
Speaker 1: is actually a direct quote from the Reich Health Office
Speaker 1: president Hans Writer, who added that the destiny of the
Speaker 1: German Volk rests entirely in the hands of the German physician.
Speaker 1: Mangolist professors were not all committed Nazis, of course, nor
Speaker 1: was all of this genetic science that he studied based
Speaker 1: on pseudoscientific principles. One of his teachers was Carl von Frisch,
Speaker 1: a zoologist who authored pioneering studies of honeybees and won
Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize for Medicine in nineteen seventy three. It's
Speaker 1: Frisch who mangel A credits with sparking his lifelong fascination
Speaker 1: with zoology. Quote in such a lasting way that I
Speaker 1: have kept this fire my entire life and have all
Speaker 1: too often been warmed by it. Frisch would come into
Speaker 1: contact and again fritch is one of the guys who
Speaker 1: inspires Mangola to go down this path. He is not
Speaker 1: a Nazi. He actually gets in trouble with the Nazis
Speaker 1: a number of times because he insists on employing Jewish
Speaker 1: assistance after they come to power, many of whom are women.
Speaker 1: He employs a lot of Jewish female scientists during the
Speaker 1: Third Reich, and he almost gets like like he gets fired,
Speaker 1: but he gets brought back because he's just such a
Speaker 1: good scientist. But he actually protects a lot of Jewish
Speaker 1: people by basically sheltering them through his fame. Another scientist
Speaker 1: who teaches Mangola and is this kind of guy, is
Speaker 1: Otto Violent. Violent is a chemistry professor. Mangel actually does
Speaker 1: not like Violent. He thinks he's brilliant, but he's a
Speaker 1: bad teacher because he's just more interested in his research.
Speaker 1: Violind actually wins a Nobel Prize. He's a very very
Speaker 1: good scientist, and during the Nazi regime, Violent also shields
Speaker 1: Jewish students using his notoriety to protect them from the Holocaust.
Speaker 1: And that's part of the complexity of this is that
Speaker 1: these guys are not hardcore ray scientists. Obviously, they're just geneticists.
Speaker 1: They're doing that kind of science. But it all gets
Speaker 1: lumped intogether. So a number of the people that Mangela
Speaker 1: admires are folks who will risk their lives to protect
Speaker 1: Jews during the Holocaust. M just again you know, complicated.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, you know, yeah, it's uh, it's sounds like
Speaker 1: the recurring theme is just like you know, you're taking
Speaker 1: just you're picking and choosing a little bit of facts
Speaker 1: from each you know, exactly exactly each study to try
Speaker 1: to bolster your weird race science thing. So yeah, where
Speaker 1: as opposed to like Fritsch and Violin, who are very
Speaker 1: focused have like really are have become incredible experts on
Speaker 1: a specific thing from deep deep rigor, he's just kind
Speaker 1: of picking a la carte shit and ignoring the whole
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shield a bunch of Jews during the Holocaust
Speaker 1: because it's fucked up stuff that they do. See this one.
Speaker 1: You should be a dentist. Yes, it's a specialty, but
Speaker 1: you know what, you won't be a Nazi. Yeah maybe,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There were a lot of not one
Speaker 1: of the guys he works with that Auschwitz isn't acted dentist.
Speaker 1: St Yeah. Um. Anyway, Mangola imbibed the scientific lessons of
Speaker 1: these men, but obviously not their morality. Unfortunately, this was
Speaker 1: also the case for the teacher he respected most as
Speaker 1: an undergraduate, Siegfried Moliere, the director of the Munich University
Speaker 1: Anatomical Institute. I'm going to quote from David Marwell's book.
Speaker 1: Mangola here, Molier or Malier whatever, counseled his students that
Speaker 1: a good physician must conceive of body and soul as
Speaker 1: a unity. He spoke of the majesty of death that
Speaker 1: they would encounter in their work. Later, when Mollier instructed
Speaker 1: them in the in the Anatomy Lab, Mangola wrote that
Speaker 1: the great teacher wanted them to have a deep, even
Speaker 1: intuitive understanding of anatomy, and not just memorized terms. He
Speaker 1: definitely demonstrated what was visible through dissection, the functional relationship
Speaker 1: and the structural efficiency of the components of the human body.
Speaker 1: Mangola was particularly moved by Mollier's introduction to the dissection
Speaker 1: labs my entire life, even in the most difficult situations.
Speaker 1: I can hear his solo words from that time when
Speaker 1: he spoke of the rights of the dead, that we
Speaker 1: should always approach the dead with dignity and gravity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as long as they're dead. M Yeah, I mean he
Speaker 1: doesn't really do that. It's one of those It's weird
Speaker 1: how much he idolizes this guy, because that is I
Speaker 1: would argue not how he treats the dead, although he
Speaker 1: I will explain his argument a little more later when
Speaker 1: we get to that portion of it. So, during his
Speaker 1: first years in college, Joseph still suffered from the after
Speaker 1: effects of blood poisoning that had darkened his adolescence. The
Speaker 1: future arbiter of racial health was not well enough to
Speaker 1: walk the distance between his various classes, so his parents
Speaker 1: bought him a car. This proved to be the saving
Speaker 1: grace of his social life. Having a car made it
Speaker 1: easier to make friends, or at least to hang around
Speaker 1: with other young people who needed a ride. He's exact
Speaker 1: type of guy. He's the car guy. Yeah, he's the
Speaker 1: car guys school, who's like, he's really intense, he writes
Speaker 1: a lot of poetry. He's kind of fucking weirdo. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we're all going to the beach. We gotta get yeah
Speaker 1: fucking Joey m Yeah. I mean my version of that
Speaker 1: was the car guy who was ten years older than
Speaker 1: us and would buy us beer. But yeah, same kind
Speaker 1: of guy. Really, I'm sure maybe he's a Nazi now. So.
Speaker 1: In his memoirs, Mengela remembered this period as a lonely
Speaker 1: One quote It is precisely this feeling of being alone,
Speaker 1: the lack of an intimate connection to family, the lack
Speaker 1: of a true friendship, that I felt so bitterly in
Speaker 1: the first few semesters. He notes that he engaged in
Speaker 1: superficial pleasure seeking, using his access to money to engage
Speaker 1: in the trappings of a social life while living a
Speaker 1: shallow existence. Mengela claimed that during his early college years
Speaker 1: he did not seek an honest friendship. He claimed, failing
Speaker 1: to overcome his isolation disguised this inner and ability in
Speaker 1: an easily misinterpreted preservation of the remoteness of cool impersonality
Speaker 1: and unsocial arrogance, which may have had the effect of
Speaker 1: discouraging all who otherwise came to me in friendship and affection.
Speaker 1: In other words, he can't let anybody in, so he
Speaker 1: pretends that he's better than everyone else so that he
Speaker 1: doesn't have to actually get to know anybody and accept vulnerability. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, normal adolescent you know struggles, Yeah, safe for
Speaker 1: the whole you know, the race science stuff aside from
Speaker 1: the race science, yeah, pretty pretty understandable. So I mean,
Speaker 1: at this point in his life, you could write a
Speaker 1: nice little coming of age novel. Sure if the end yeah,
Speaker 1: it's different. Yeah, I'm actually working on a series of
Speaker 1: Nazi coming of age novels. Um. Oh yeah, no, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be gonna be good. Um, gonna be yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's what we don't have enough of. Why why a
Speaker 1: Nazi books? Yeah, yeah it is. There's a there's a
Speaker 1: series of detective books that I read from time to time,
Speaker 1: the Bernie Gunther books, which are like about a detective
Speaker 1: who is not a Nazi but is first in the
Speaker 1: Weimar State and that is in the Nazi state, and
Speaker 1: because he's such a good detective, he gets like brought
Speaker 1: in by Nazis when there's these murder mysteries or assassinations
Speaker 1: of Natzi, he's like forced into the SS. It's really
Speaker 1: there's there's some good books. There's some weird stuff in
Speaker 1: a couple of them. Um yeah, like it's it's firmly
Speaker 1: anti Nazi. He portrays them all as monsters, but he
Speaker 1: has to do it. There's some sweatiness to explain how
Speaker 1: are you in the SS and like not part of
Speaker 1: war craft. It's it's weird some, but there's a pretty
Speaker 1: good books about anything fiction. You can go in any
Speaker 1: world you want and instead you want to make something.
Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, it's hard to explain. So the books,
Speaker 1: the earlier books in the series, where he's like a
Speaker 1: detective in Weimar, Berlin during the fighting between Nazis and Communists,
Speaker 1: there's some really cool stuff there because he knows his
Speaker 1: stuff about the historical period. Some of the later stuff
Speaker 1: gets a little weirder, but you know, if you're looking
Speaker 1: for a fucking Nazi themed detective novel, there you go.
Speaker 1: So starting in nineteen thirty four, Mangela began taking pediatric
Speaker 1: medicine courses with the whimsically named doctor Franz Hamburger, a
Speaker 1: proponent of right wing Vulkish medicine who joined the Nazi
Speaker 1: Party that same year. His clinic advocated for euthanasia and
Speaker 1: regularly sent disabled children to a year by hotspital, where
Speaker 1: hundreds of them were murdered by the state, like Gurger
Speaker 1: doing war crimes. And I'm just like all I can
Speaker 1: pictures Mayor meet Cheese. Yeah, it's really well, you know.
Speaker 1: Mayor mccheese was actually had some strong opinions on racial hygiene,
Speaker 1: which is a big part of why all of his
Speaker 1: patties are one hundred percent beef. But anyway, Um, it
Speaker 1: was his work for Doctor Hamburger that would get Mangela
Speaker 1: his first kind of experience with twin studies, which is
Speaker 1: going to become he's going to like become a lifelong
Speaker 1: sort of he's going to develop a lifelong fascination for twins.
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about why in a scientific
Speaker 1: sense that was the case. But first, Matt, you want
Speaker 1: to talk about some products, some services. I love products,
Speaker 1: I love services. I love being told what to buy
Speaker 1: and want to do it. You know, we are often
Speaker 1: told by our marketing department that there's nothing advertisers like
Speaker 1: more than being led into an ad by talking about
Speaker 1: Joseph Mangela's twin studies. Um, that really, that really moves
Speaker 1: the subscription boxes. Yeah. I mean, you know, people here
Speaker 1: twins and they're not immediately horned up. Yeah, man doing it.
Speaker 1: Speaking of twins. We got a two for the price
Speaker 1: of one deal. We'll probably bleep some of that. Ah,
Speaker 1: here's some ads. Oh we're back, so then and now
Speaker 1: then being Nazi times, twin studies are considered incredibly useful
Speaker 1: for studying the difference between, for example, nature and nurture.
Speaker 1: On health outcomes. Right, there's two kinds of twins. There's
Speaker 1: identical twins and fraternal twins. Identical twins come from the
Speaker 1: same you know, baby goo things zygote or whatever, um,
Speaker 1: and thus differences because they you know, are genetically identical,
Speaker 1: the differences between them can be kind of attributed. It's
Speaker 1: either going to be an environmental or a social factor. Right,
Speaker 1: when you have a health who you are? I didn't
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, I have a twin sister, and that's
Speaker 1: the other kind. Um, So you're not as useful to
Speaker 1: Joseph Mangle. He's still useless. He still would have been
Speaker 1: interested in you guys, don't don't don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: Yeah he would, but he would have found a different
Speaker 1: reason maybe yeah, yeah, well yeah, I mean they use
Speaker 1: both kind of twins. So twins are useful for studying
Speaker 1: hereditary illnesses right, for among other things. Mangel's first attempt
Speaker 1: to study twins involved the daughters of a colleague and
Speaker 1: ended an awkward failure. He like comes over to her
Speaker 1: house and he's like, hey, can I talk to your daughters?
Speaker 1: And she's like, what do you want to talk to
Speaker 1: him about? Oh? You know, twins, stuff, sign stuff, and
Speaker 1: they're like, they're like weirded out by him. They don't
Speaker 1: agree to work with him. Good good parent in call
Speaker 1: not letting Joseph Mangel and are your twins Nazi? But
Speaker 1: I'm not a fucking weirdot. Get the hell out of here, Joey.
Speaker 1: And the fact that he does this so awkwardly is
Speaker 1: kind of evidence of the fact that while twin studies
Speaker 1: are incredibly valuable, scientists who are in this field are
Speaker 1: always looking for groups of twins that they can carry
Speaker 1: out studies on. It's like number one, it's always hard
Speaker 1: to get parents to agree for that. There's a limit
Speaker 1: to the kind of studies you can do when you
Speaker 1: consider them human beings. And there's not that many twins,
Speaker 1: so that's a problem for guys like Joseph. It's not
Speaker 1: always going to be a problem for guys like Joseph,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a problem for him at this point.
Speaker 1: On April fifth, nineteen thirty three, Hitler announced that German
Speaker 1: doctors needed to move with all energy towards solving the
Speaker 1: race question. The center of this scientific effort was again
Speaker 1: based around the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Human Genetics,
Speaker 1: and eugenics. In nineteen thirty four, another bout of ill
Speaker 1: health forced Mangela to quit the Staalhelm, which by then
Speaker 1: had been absorbed into the Nazi brown Shirts. He had
Speaker 1: not yet joined the party officially. He decided his physical
Speaker 1: weakness meant he needed to dedicate his energy towards his studies,
Speaker 1: and so he did. As Gerald Posner writes, the man
Speaker 1: who gave Mangela his first real leg up on the
Speaker 1: academic ladder was Professor T. Mollinson of Munich University. His
Speaker 1: experience in the field of heredity and racial hygiene led
Speaker 1: Mollinson to claim that he could tell if a person
Speaker 1: had Jewish forebears simply by looking at a photograph. In
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five, Mollinson awarded Mangola a PhD for his
Speaker 1: thesis entitled Racial Morphological Research on the lower jaw section
Speaker 1: of four racial groups entitled Oh just look at him?
Speaker 1: Yeah just ladies, guys, Yeah, yeah, now always tell Posner
Speaker 1: will will argue that, like, uh, Mangels Report number one.
Speaker 1: He's like, Mallinson is pretty unscientific, and a lot of
Speaker 1: his claims. Mangels Report is very scientific, it's well argued,
Speaker 1: it's not explicitly racist. Like he's not dropping a bunch
Speaker 1: of slurs. He's being like, look, you know, we have
Speaker 1: all these job bones from people from this part of
Speaker 1: the world, and they have this in whatever. That's how
Speaker 1: Posner describes the study. Mollison himself was more critical of
Speaker 1: of mangelis study, calling his work clumsy, although acknowledging it
Speaker 1: fulfilled his its requirements. So, like his thesis advisor is like,
Speaker 1: it's not great, but I guess you get a PhD. Anyway,
Speaker 1: you didn't fail, so here you yeah, now, yeah, given
Speaker 1: the fact that, like the guy who judged his work
Speaker 1: as clumsy was like, the hey, it looks like a
Speaker 1: jude to me. Dude, I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to like take that as an actual criticism that said,
Speaker 1: so that we can actually criticize this. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, a group of modern geneticists analyzed mangels thesis,
Speaker 1: and they pointed out that he makes a lot of
Speaker 1: very basic statistical errors and failures of analysis, and most
Speaker 1: kind of the biggest thing to critique about this is
Speaker 1: that his obsession with the concept of race has no
Speaker 1: grounding and objective science, so like there's there's not really
Speaker 1: a center of hard science to what he's doing here,
Speaker 1: mangel Is in person questioning went better. He was awarded
Speaker 1: his Doctor of Philosophy degree summa cum laude after being
Speaker 1: drilled by a board of judges or whatever in November
Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty five. Now this is the point at
Speaker 1: which things started to look up for the new doctor.
Speaker 1: His health took a turn for the better as he
Speaker 1: opted for the time honored strategy of just forcing himself
Speaker 1: to sprint until he paid blood. Um, this actually worked somehow,
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like, yeah, no, menimal science is
Speaker 1: weird that way, where it's just like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: people would do the leeches and stuff, and then sometimes
Speaker 1: they be cured and you'd be like, I guess, look,
Speaker 1: I won't agree with Joseph Minglaw on anything, but this
Speaker 1: sprint until you piss blood. That's my that's my medical
Speaker 1: advice for all of our listeners. Yeah um yeah, yeah good,
Speaker 1: that's my pilates. We actually sell a line of running
Speaker 1: shorts that just have a red line right down the
Speaker 1: middle so that no one will no one will notice
Speaker 1: you just be like, no, these are just my running storts.
Speaker 1: It's a racing stripe behind. Yeah good, stuff. So Joseph's
Speaker 1: first paid medical job was at the University of Leipzig
Speaker 1: Medical Clinic. He passed his state medical exam in the
Speaker 1: summer of thirty six and he worked there for four
Speaker 1: months as a junior doctor. This was a requirement for
Speaker 1: his degree. You know, it's kind of the first step
Speaker 1: of becoming an mds. You have to spend some time
Speaker 1: at a hospital. He hates this. Working with live of
Speaker 1: human patience is not his strong suit. He finds the
Speaker 1: work kind of degrading. The only benefit, as far as
Speaker 1: Joseph saw it, was that he met a young woman
Speaker 1: named Irene Shoneban, the daughter of a professor, who he
Speaker 1: falls in love with. Now Irene is nineteen and Joseph
Speaker 1: is twenty five, and shortly after they fall for each other,
Speaker 1: Joseph receives the first big break of his career, an
Speaker 1: appointment to work at the new right third Reich Institute
Speaker 1: for Heredity, Biology and Racial Purity in Frankfurt under the
Speaker 1: prominent Nazi doctor Otmar von Verschure. Yeah yeah, it's a normal,
Speaker 1: fun name to have certain Yeah yeah, not a sketchy
Speaker 1: ass Nazi name. Now and Atmar, he had worked at
Speaker 1: the Kaiser Weelham Institute. We talked about him last episode.
Speaker 1: He's the guy who's really interested in twins. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to quote now from the book Racial Hygiene Medicine
Speaker 1: under the Nazis. In the Third Reich, twin studies were
Speaker 1: lavishly funded as part of an effort to prove that
Speaker 1: heredity was the key to many human talents and imperfections.
Speaker 1: Twin studies purportedly demonstrated the heredibility of everything from epilepsy, criminality, memory,
Speaker 1: and hernias to tuberculosis, cancer, schizophrenia, and divorce. In nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty three, Ottmar Freiher von Verschure published a book purporting
Speaker 1: to provide exact ratios of relative influence of heredity and
Speaker 1: environment in a wide range of bodily traits. He derived
Speaker 1: his data from the study of several thousand identical and
Speaker 1: non identical twins. Verschure's studies were followed by hundreds of others.
Speaker 1: By nineteen thirty six, Ottoreesh's Institute for the Study of
Speaker 1: Racian Vulkul examine at twelve hundred and fifty pairs of twins,
Speaker 1: recording forty two separate physical or physiognomic traits for each pair.
Speaker 1: Eugene Fisher called twin studies the single most important research
Speaker 1: tool in the field of racial hygiene. Verschure called twin
Speaker 1: research the sovereign method for genetic research and humans. Rachel
Speaker 1: hygienists were able to convince Nazi authorities that twin studies
Speaker 1: warranted substantial government support. In nineteen thirty nine, Interior Minister
Speaker 1: Wilhelm Frick ordered the registration of all twins, triplets or
Speaker 1: quadruplets born in the Reich for the express purpose of
Speaker 1: research to isolect the effects of nature and nurture. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: this just all of this sounds incredibly horny to me.
Speaker 1: Just the constant, like fucking focus on twins and identical twins.
Speaker 1: Just I don't know why. In my head this is
Speaker 1: just very horny, pilled. Yeah, it's also weird that you're
Speaker 1: like registering your twins, Like you give birth to twins
Speaker 1: and the doctor comes out, you've got a license for
Speaker 1: those twins. Yeah, I need to put them in this
Speaker 1: database of twins. No reason, no reason, It's fine. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: while Mollison had viewed Mangola as a mediocre student, Von
Speaker 1: Verschure treats him like a protege. Now Von Verschure is
Speaker 1: also a devoted Nazi. He credited Hitler as being the
Speaker 1: first statesman to recognize hereditary biology and race hygiene. Von
Speaker 1: Verschure didn't just consider himself in his institute to be
Speaker 1: organs of science. Though they were part of the National
Speaker 1: defense apparatus, He defined their role as caring for German
Speaker 1: genes to provide such a strong basis that it will
Speaker 1: withstand any attacks from outside. Now that Mangola was working
Speaker 1: at the heart of Nazi race science, joining the party
Speaker 1: had become compulsory. He saw it as a moral necessity.
Speaker 1: The problem was that after nineteen thirty three, the Nazis
Speaker 1: had closed party membership, worried their assent to power would
Speaker 1: draw on a bunch of Johnny come Lately fascists who
Speaker 1: wanted social benefits of being in the party but weren't committed.
Speaker 1: Now there were ways around the block, and Mangoli's prior
Speaker 1: membership in the Staalhelm ensured him special consideration. He was
Speaker 1: approved in nineteen thirty eight and became party member number
Speaker 1: five five seven four nine seven four. So that's good,
Speaker 1: that's not a bad number. Yeah, that's you know, yea
Speaker 1: not an early adopter, but you know, he got there.
Speaker 1: He got there. So his first duty for the fascist
Speaker 1: state was helping the new judicial system determine who was
Speaker 1: and who was not a Jew cohabitating with an area
Speaker 1: and spouse. It's illegal to be in an inner, you know,
Speaker 1: race marriage, as the Nazis considerate. So you have a
Speaker 1: bunch of cases where people will say like, I'm not
Speaker 1: Jewish or whatever. Um, so it's cool for me to
Speaker 1: stay married, and you have to determine whether or not
Speaker 1: they meet the legal definition of a Jew under the
Speaker 1: Nuremberg race laws. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah. So they're
Speaker 1: known as me having dinner with my Jewish side of
Speaker 1: the family and I'm just being like, well, you're not
Speaker 1: really Jewish shure. Yeah. So it's a long line, yeah,
Speaker 1: long line of that. So in the Nazi version of this,
Speaker 1: you can't just like, it's not as clear as just
Speaker 1: like looking at the law. To determine whether or not
Speaker 1: someone counts as Jewish in this, you have to have
Speaker 1: like was probably like, come on, I just looked at him.
Speaker 1: I can tell no, I mean that is actually me, Matt,
Speaker 1: you joke. That is actually the standard is having a
Speaker 1: doc be like yeah, it looks like a Jew to
Speaker 1: may So most of the it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where like this guy von Brochure. One of the things
Speaker 1: he does is he's helping the courts determine who isn't
Speaker 1: isn't Jewish. He has a bunch of his assistants helping.
Speaker 1: Most of them are just like Mollissa, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it looks like a Jew to may or Nah, that
Speaker 1: guy doesn't. In the jew Mangola is develops a reputation
Speaker 1: for being obsessive about this where he's doing all the genealogy.
Speaker 1: He's like spending hours looking at pictures of their jaws
Speaker 1: from different angles. And it's actually as a result of
Speaker 1: this his judgments are often beneficial to the person being tried. Overall,
Speaker 1: he found that they were not a full Jew two
Speaker 1: thirds of the time. This is not due to a
Speaker 1: lack of racism, but more to the fact that he
Speaker 1: was weirdly obsessed with jaws. There was one odd case
Speaker 1: in July of nineteen thirty seven that biographers were all
Speaker 1: will often bring up, when Mangola was asked to analyze
Speaker 1: a man with an Aryan mother and a legally Jewish
Speaker 1: father who claimed that his real dad had in an
Speaker 1: Aryan and had had an affair with his mother. So
Speaker 1: this guy, on paper his dad is Jewish, but he's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not my real dad. My mom was sleeping around,
Speaker 1: so it's cool for me to be married. So this
Speaker 1: is kind of a thorny case. And Mangola decided that
Speaker 1: the man was a full Jew, but the court disagreed
Speaker 1: because they were like, well, based on just like the
Speaker 1: report you wrote, you say, there's actually a pretty good
Speaker 1: chance that this guy's claims you're true, and if that's
Speaker 1: the case, we're going to give him the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt, which points to kind of the fact that
Speaker 1: these Nazi race courts are a lot more inconsistent and
Speaker 1: messy than you might think, right, because this hierarchy they're
Speaker 1: trying to develop is not based on rigorous silence, right,
Speaker 1: it's all weirdos speculating about jaws and ears and shit.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote though from Mangola, people doing the look
Speaker 1: at him test and then yeah, look at him arguing
Speaker 1: amongst each other. That's gonna be a fucking annoying, boring
Speaker 1: life to just be the person who's just like trying
Speaker 1: to you know, like always over the dinner table. You're
Speaker 1: just arguing with people over pictures of various possible Jews. No,
Speaker 1: he has a Bohemian elope, Yeah, a Roman nose, God damage,
Speaker 1: he's a Laplander. Can't you tell a good old timey racism?
Speaker 1: So he did. Yeah, I'm gonna quote now from Mangola
Speaker 1: unmasking the Angel of Death. Mangola's examination included, where possible,
Speaker 1: a comparison of twelve different areas, including blood type, in factors,
Speaker 1: eyes and eyebrows, as well as finger and footprints. He
Speaker 1: determined that there was nothing to rule out the paternity
Speaker 1: of Alexander's legal father, that some areas of similarity made
Speaker 1: the paternity probable, and that there was no pronounced similarity
Speaker 1: between the photograph of the alleged biological father and the son.
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a peculiar situation to try and
Speaker 1: analyze the decisions of a Nazi court wherein both sides
Speaker 1: are Nazis, but one side saying, nah, this guy's not
Speaker 1: a Jew, he could stay married, and Mangola saying, oh,
Speaker 1: he's definitely a Jew. He should, you know, be arrested.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what father this guy is,
Speaker 1: just like everyone agrees, I'm a cuck. At least that's fun.
Speaker 1: So this guy, Vershure. When the court rules against Mangela,
Speaker 1: Vershure is angry, saying that their decision undermined the Nuremberg
Speaker 1: Laws by turning a Jew into a half Jew. David
Speaker 1: Marwell continues. Doctor Walter Gross of the Racial Policy Office
Speaker 1: of the Nazi Party responded to Vershure by criticizing Mangola
Speaker 1: for the lack of clear and precise information and his
Speaker 1: racial determination, and for his fickle testimony at trial. He concluded,
Speaker 1: I do not think that the court would have ignored
Speaker 1: a totally clear position of the assistant Mangola. Mangela must
Speaker 1: have learned from his mistake. Wiss noted, since she was
Speaker 1: unable to find any other instances where the court questioned
Speaker 1: a racial certificate that he issued. So you know he
Speaker 1: learns from this. That's good, little hero's journey there for
Speaker 1: our race scientist friend, Joseph Mangla. That's good. That's good.
Speaker 1: An't that good? Yeah? That's nice? You know what else
Speaker 1: is nice? Matt? What what's nice? Great? Mmmm? Products and services?
Speaker 1: That's right? You know. While Nazi race science was often
Speaker 1: arbitrary and a scientific the science that our advertisers used
Speaker 1: to target you with. The perfect ad is flawless. So
Speaker 1: don't question it, don't ask anything, don't think. Just give them,
Speaker 1: give them your money. You know. Uh, we're all back,
Speaker 1: We're all feeling good. So the inconsistency and arbitrariness of
Speaker 1: most Nazi racial designations came with some minor consequences from
Speaker 1: Mangela himself. As he'd risen to work at von Verschuer's side,
Speaker 1: he'd made the decision to join the SS while he should.
Speaker 1: Stoffle had started as a simple bodyguard unit for Hitler
Speaker 1: back in the old street fighting days under Heinrich Himler's leadership,
Speaker 1: at it to grow into a state within a state
Speaker 1: dedicated to cultivating and breeding a Nazi racial elite. As such,
Speaker 1: it was a natural place for an ambitious young race
Speaker 1: scientist like Mingle It to join. Doctors actually joined the
Speaker 1: SS in greater numbers than members of any other vocation.
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I did not know that, But
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense and makes me sad
Speaker 1: and angry. Do you want to know how I hate doctors?
Speaker 1: Do you want to guess how much more likely doctors
Speaker 1: were to be in the SS than normal employed German males.
Speaker 1: I couldn't possibly know the answer to that. It is
Speaker 1: seven times seven times likelier than any Yeah. So an
Speaker 1: underdiscuss story from Nazi Germany is that not only did
Speaker 1: doctors love the SS, Germany has at the time the
Speaker 1: Nazis come to power the most advanced and progressive medical
Speaker 1: system in the world. Fully half of all doctors in
Speaker 1: Germany joined the Nazi Party. Physicians joined the Nazi Party
Speaker 1: at a rate higher than members of any other profession.
Speaker 1: By comparison, only about twenty percent German teachers joined the party. Um,
Speaker 1: doctors in Germany cannot get enough of the Nazis. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know what? Hitler actually was kind of the original
Speaker 1: podcaster or matt the Adolf Hitler experience talking about mushrooms
Speaker 1: are good. He was the first politician in at least
Speaker 1: in Europe to really make great use of the radio
Speaker 1: and of microphones. Can you pull up that clip? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Hitler and his buddy that the fucking Brazilian jiu jitsu
Speaker 1: expert talking about vaccines. Good stuff. So Michael CHIPS's Everybody
Speaker 1: God podcast, Hitler actually makes a ton of sense sense. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: that that is absolutely what he would have been doing today. Um,
Speaker 1: that's not even a question in my mind. He's brought
Speaker 1: you by me. Undy's well the only like a specific
Speaker 1: kind for a best erries berries. Get yourself a bouquet
Speaker 1: of white chocolate berries. They are very happy today to
Speaker 1: be hosting some ads from ze Washington State Hya Patrol.
Speaker 1: Not quite the organization I've handsome to be yet, but soon,
Speaker 1: very soon. So one of the few things that separated
Speaker 1: Mangala from his fellow as sas men was that, so
Speaker 1: in the SS, when you join, you have to have
Speaker 1: your blood group tattooed on your arm. Right, Sorry, is
Speaker 1: this American Reich? Look yeah, my whole face is purple. Yeah. Look,
Speaker 1: I love Dan Carlin, but I'm fighting to stop myself
Speaker 1: from doing a meme worth the two hands meeting in
Speaker 1: the middle, and it's like Hitler and Dan Carmen sixteen
Speaker 1: hour podcasts on World War One. Very different sixteen hour
Speaker 1: podcast let's be clear, extremely different, extremely different. You're not
Speaker 1: at all coming from the same place, but no, no,
Speaker 1: but similar in length probably, Yeah. Yeah. So one of
Speaker 1: the few things that's again, so in the SS, you
Speaker 1: got to get this blood group tattoo on your arm.
Speaker 1: It's like it's actually after the war. One of the
Speaker 1: things that makes it easy to tell who's been in
Speaker 1: the SS because a lot of them like put on
Speaker 1: normal army uniforms to try to escape. Mangela does not
Speaker 1: get this tattoo. Um, and it's his ex wife. Would
Speaker 1: leader say it's because he had a habit, his like
Speaker 1: hobby was staring at his shirtless body in the mirror,
Speaker 1: Like after he gets healthy and starts to bulk up,
Speaker 1: he just like looking at himself naked and he can't
Speaker 1: stand the thought of marring his skin with a tattoo.
Speaker 1: That is absolutely the most like just default Nazi setting
Speaker 1: is just looking in the mirror and going on, I'm
Speaker 1: so fucking strong. It's just you know, see Andrew Tate, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: very very taty. So joining Himmler's racial elite came with
Speaker 1: extra hoops to jump through if you wanted to do
Speaker 1: something like getting married. For one thing, his fiance Irene
Speaker 1: had to pass a series of tests to become the
Speaker 1: wife of an SS man. Now I know what you're
Speaker 1: all wondering, Could I be an SS wife? You know, ladies,
Speaker 1: ladies at home, if you want to know, do you
Speaker 1: have what it takes to marry an SS man. That's
Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now. So you show on
Speaker 1: Bravo the Real Housewives of the Yeah oh boy, that
Speaker 1: is a fucking so. The first thing she hasked to
Speaker 1: do she had to get two recommendations from men who
Speaker 1: knew her, and both of those men had to fill
Speaker 1: out questionnaires to prove that she had what it took
Speaker 1: to be an SS wife. She was rated by them
Speaker 1: as being very reliable, very fond of children, com radley,
Speaker 1: and not domineering and efficient. Irene also had to undergo
Speaker 1: a body type analysis. I'm gonna yeah, boy OUTI here's
Speaker 1: ears Marwell again. One section of the form called for
Speaker 1: an inventory of ten physical characteristics with a list of
Speaker 1: associated values in descending order of desirability. For instance, for
Speaker 1: body type, the physician could choose muscular, athletic, plump, slim,
Speaker 1: or puny, with the first clearly being the most positive.
Speaker 1: For eye color, the following choices were available blue, gray, greenish,
Speaker 1: light brown, and dark brown. These physical attributes, thought to
Speaker 1: be expressions of the racial mixture that the person represented,
Speaker 1: were observed and noted. In Irene's case, doctor Shorzweller awarded
Speaker 1: her nine out of ten of the attributes with the
Speaker 1: highest value, and only one hair form as the second
Speaker 1: highest sleek, which was one step stepped down from straight,
Speaker 1: but better than wavy, curly or crinkly. I love that.
Speaker 1: It's like there's you're almost perfect. There's a little jew
Speaker 1: in your hair. Yeah, I'm gonna have to dark you
Speaker 1: a little bit for the jew and that hairs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but don't we have a straight iron cross that we
Speaker 1: will use to straighten that little jew out. Let's get
Speaker 1: the kinks out, so to speak. So the combination of
Speaker 1: these features led Swartzweller to conclude that Irene was primarily
Speaker 1: of the Nordic race, with some Dinaric influences. She was
Speaker 1: found to be an excellent health and perhaps of key significance,
Speaker 1: likely to be able to bear children. Noting her wide pelvis,
Speaker 1: you have white pelvis. You have a very nice feat.
Speaker 1: They relate little Binaric. But you know that's that's a
Speaker 1: race for Nazis. No, don't worry about that, as we
Speaker 1: know about that. Honestly, Irene, I have a searching for
Speaker 1: a term, but then I pulled up my Nazi thesaurus,
Speaker 1: and so of categorizations we've done here. Wow, we've want words.
Speaker 1: So even with even all of this was not enough
Speaker 1: for the SS. Irene also needed to prove that she
Speaker 1: was racially pure, free of any Jewish influence for the
Speaker 1: sake of SS paperwork. This meant providing information about her
Speaker 1: family line that dated back to the Peace piece of
Speaker 1: Westphalia in sixteen forty eight. This was the end of
Speaker 1: the Thirty Years War, which killed millions of German people
Speaker 1: and set in motion kind of want like one of
Speaker 1: the more direct things that set in motion the series
Speaker 1: of events that leads to the creation of the German States.
Speaker 1: So that's why they pick it. The problem for Irene
Speaker 1: came with the fact that in eighteen eighty six, her
Speaker 1: grandfather had been born out of wedlock and his father
Speaker 1: his father could not be verified. Now there was no
Speaker 1: evidence of direct taint, so Irene was approved to Mary Mangola,
Speaker 1: but because her ancestry could not be sufficiently confirmed, she
Speaker 1: and Joseph were unable to add their names to the
Speaker 1: Sippin book. Dare ss Honestly, that's unfair. I know it's fucked.
Speaker 1: I gonna go out and say big yikes to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so a Sippin' book if you guys aren't, aren't like
Speaker 1: me and Matt because we're big sippin book guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a book, a genealogical clan book that lists your ancestry.
Speaker 1: Every SS member was supposed to carry one, but there's
Speaker 1: a grand Sippin' book for the entire organization that lists
Speaker 1: all of the family lines. Because Himler was kind of
Speaker 1: planning on breeding a new nightly nobility more or less. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So this is like the highest honor in the SS,
Speaker 1: and Mengola just doesn't quite meet the bar um, which
Speaker 1: is sad, sad, honestly, it's just it's one of the bigger,
Speaker 1: bigger tragedies of the era. Oh for sure. Absolutely. So
Speaker 1: the good news is that Mangola had little time to
Speaker 1: dwell on this because the nineteen thirties were coming to
Speaker 1: an end. In events in the whider world. We're about
Speaker 1: to turn him from a simple, bigoted piece of shit
Speaker 1: into one of the greatest mass killers in medical history.
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, so you're telling me this podcast is
Speaker 1: gonna get worse. Oh yeah, Oh, it's about to get
Speaker 1: a lot worse. So July of Nining is people to die.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know, no more Jarjar. I just I
Speaker 1: know that the jar jar is coming to an end. Sure,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Wow, there's gotta be like us.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably pornographic, but there's gotta be jar
Speaker 1: jar ss like art out there, dev and art account
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, I don't know why people are man
Speaker 1: at me. Yeah. And it's both horny but also shows
Speaker 1: like an unsettling degree of understanding of like minutia of
Speaker 1: SS daily life. They've got their little sipping books on
Speaker 1: jar Jar's got his blood group tattooed on a fucking bicep.
Speaker 1: So In July of nineteen thirty eight, Frankfurt University awards
Speaker 1: mangle A a full medical degree. He was now a
Speaker 1: licensed MD as well as a PhD. He had a
Speaker 1: promising career ahead of him in the field of being
Speaker 1: a racist with a lab coat, but his ambition would
Speaker 1: not let him simply continue to work as a research
Speaker 1: scientist while his nation went to war. So he decided
Speaker 1: to join the Waffen or Weapons SS. Now this is
Speaker 1: the because the SS is a bunch of things, right,
Speaker 1: But the Waffen SS is like the SS that also
Speaker 1: fights alongside the Wehrmacht. Right there, they're a military organization.
Speaker 1: This would become one of the war crimest units of
Speaker 1: the war crimest army ever to war crime, and Mengelo
Speaker 1: was dedicated to being a part of it. At the
Speaker 1: end of nineteen thirty eight, he did three months of
Speaker 1: basic training with the Wehrmacht to prepare himself for the
Speaker 1: riggers ahead. He's spent about a year or so serving
Speaker 1: as basically a National guardsman. And while he's kind of
Speaker 1: doing this, he's continuing to work with Van Verschure on
Speaker 1: publishing studies about ear lobe differences between the races and
Speaker 1: the like. Just before the invasion of Poland, he wrote
Speaker 1: a review for a book on detecting congenital heart defects.
Speaker 1: In this review he lamented quote unfortunately the author did
Speaker 1: not use subjects where the diagnosis could be verified by
Speaker 1: an autopsy. He's been a lot of time talking about
Speaker 1: how unfortunate is there weren't enough corpses to study to
Speaker 1: like fully prove this guy's claims about congenital heart defects
Speaker 1: and alas, he was about to have all of the
Speaker 1: autopsy subjects he could ever want, but that it's going
Speaker 1: to be. In Part three, Oh Boy, Part three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: then just two more after this. Yeah, we're good. Oh
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a breezy five hours. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know this is We're not that different from Dan Carlin podcast.
Speaker 1: Here are we? We're getting increasingly similar. Um hey, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna be honest, Hitler probably would have
Speaker 1: done a behind the bastard style podcast with a very
Speaker 1: different definition of bastards. Yeah. Well yeah, Kissinger still would
Speaker 1: have been there, but for different reasons. They'll come back
Speaker 1: to my six pots series on this jew who was
Speaker 1: winning the train with me and took a chair that
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit in. This next series is all
Speaker 1: about different arts teachers who said I was made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it turns out they're made. For the next four weeks,
Speaker 1: me and my guest Joe Rogan are going to talk
Speaker 1: about Zivian Academy of Fine Arts. Chapter three. This next
Speaker 1: one is a short story from New Yorker. Now, look,
Speaker 1: it's a little horny, so Hitler. It's about and other
Speaker 1: fetish women being stuck in zidryam. Oh boy, Matt what
Speaker 1: Matt Matt Matt Man, Matt Matt What was the what
Speaker 1: was the what was the first baffling Internet fetish pornography.
Speaker 1: You ever learned about quicksand porn? Oh yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good one. Yeah yeah. I discovered that accidentally on YouTube.
Speaker 1: I don't know how how I got there, but it
Speaker 1: was just a video of a lady slowly sinking. Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is so weird. And then
Speaker 1: after a while I was like, oh no, I'm horny
Speaker 1: and uh so you know I'm in therapy. Now that's good.
Speaker 1: That's good for me. About the quick stamp art is
Speaker 1: there's not you know, there doesn't even need to be titties.
Speaker 1: It's just the sinking. Yeah, yeah it is. It is
Speaker 1: something else, um there is For me, it was there's
Speaker 1: actually a similarity here. It was Roy Orbison clean rap
Speaker 1: fetish point. It was like fetish stories about Roy Orbison
Speaker 1: to your careers, because I think you can still find
Speaker 1: the Roy Orbison clean rap fetish pornography online people, It's
Speaker 1: not it's not Nazi sofie soly Roy Orberson. I never
Speaker 1: got a good answer on that one. Can't you just
Speaker 1: be cling wrapped and be any uh yeah yeah, don't
Speaker 1: yuck their yum Matt, you know that's I would never
Speaker 1: yuck a yum. Look, some people you know, sometimes you
Speaker 1: feel like masturbating too orbits and wrapped in claim rap,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. I have so many plugibles. Check
Speaker 1: out this American right coming to you. Listen to my
Speaker 1: TV rewatch podcast, pot yourself a gun. We did The
Speaker 1: Sopranos and now we are just ending season two of
Speaker 1: The Wire. Uh and it is a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: a lot great guests and uh, you know, even if
Speaker 1: you haven't seen the show, it's fun. But mostly give
Speaker 1: us five stars in review and say something about jar
Speaker 1: Jar the Wire. Hitler would not have liked it. No,
Speaker 1: you would not have m h ah. Behind the Bastards
Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,
Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.