WEBVTT - Part Two: Josef Mengele & The Nazi Doctors 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:10.719 Ah, what's artificial my intelligence? I am Robert Evans. This 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.560 is Behind the Bastards, a podcast that's not about AI 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.120 large language model learning tools, but might be because I 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.200 so I want to commit confess something to you, Sophie, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.320 and to you uh uh Matt leeb that that's been 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:35.520 getting it's been trouble to remember my name, dude. Sorry, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.920 so Matt, Sophie. I've been thinking about playing around with 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.520 some of these these AIS that everybody's getting into, where 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.400 you can like have them generate images and shit right 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.760 where they Yeah, seems kind of cool, but I haven't 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.479 done it yet because I can't get a specific prompt 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.120 out of my head, which is a hybrid of of 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.680 of Um of Epstein and Carle ray Jepson that's just 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.440 called Carly ray Jepstein. I don't know why it won't 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.440 leave my head. It's an intrusive thought. I can't get 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.520 rid of it. Um. But yeah, yeah, so I bet 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:10.840 they could do a great job AI. You know, they 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.200 make all sorts of combinations. I love it. You're a 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.400 little imingle over call me maybe same song with Carly 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:28.360 ray Jepstein, different different, different subtext. Um. Oh god, no, 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.119 you're gonna get in trouble for that. We're bleeping that. Look, 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.120 we will, we will do this. But I yeah, I did. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.640 I did have a little red Corvette parody I did 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.120 about Jeffrey Epstein that people did not appreciate. Matt. I'm 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.360 just saying, you know, that was if it's parody song, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.000 I feel like parody. That's what I felt. But when 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:56.920 I sang, well, they're all wrong, I'm not even gonna 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.960 sing the second verse because please, we're bleeping, we're belief 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.080 all of this. We're cutting a large Oh boy, that 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.080 was a fun forty five seconds of material that would 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.680 have ended both of our careers. I'm Matt, Yeah that 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.320 was great. I'm trying to die so, you know, and me, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.200 you and I both got the Oh wow. You stopped 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.120 me from making my next joke, which was going to 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:25.200 be to say that we both contracted the Epstein. Oh 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.880 I get it, I get it. That's when you get 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.440 drunk and make Jeffrey Epstein jokes that get you canceled. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.600 Get it, get it. That's not a bad one. Okay, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.800 Yeah I didn't hate it, But my god, we have 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.520 to end in a lot. Out of this beginning we've 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.959 been rec forty five years we have we have all 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.760 forty five years have been cut. If you want to 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.600 hear the cut versions, go to the dot com. Oh yeah, 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.200 the truths behind the Bastards. Yeah, this is where Matt 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.760 matt Leeb and I matt Leeb and I have a 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.320 weekly podcast where we do our b sides with Jordan Person. 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.639 We drink a single pint of cider. We don't sleep 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.520 for twenty seven days. It's a great time. So let's 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.320 move on from the unpleasant story. You're making Epstein jokes 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:16.959 and you're laughing about it. Look, we have to move 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.960 on from the depressing tale of Jordan Peterson to talk 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:25.959 about a less sad individual, Joseph Mangola. Um oops. So 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.680 in his early days at school, Mangola still leaned towards 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.000 dentistry as a career due to the fact again his 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.600 homeland had or his hometown had no dentists. But of 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:37.560 course it's his conversation that he asked with his friend 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.040 Julius Diisbach, who's a year older than him, who tells 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.800 him dentistries too specialize. You should do a broader thing. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.440 You like anthropology. There's a degree program and anthropology and 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.560 genetics just do that. So he decides to take his 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:53.640 friend's advice and kind of so some people will argue 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.720 that Mangola was a narcissist. You know, I'm not a 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.760 I can't diagnose anybody with anything. Um, it's certainly a 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.720 thing that gets brought up by including by like professionals 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.360 who go over his notes and stuff. Because he wrote 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:10.600 a memoir and years later if TikTok has taught me anything, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.680 oh for sure, for sure he had that add he 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.480 actually is your keys. Yeah. So I don't really know 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.040 how to finish that joke, mat But what I do 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.120 know is that David Marwell will point out that, like 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.720 there's evidence kind of in his later writings that he 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.000 sort of mythologizes this conversation with his friend D's back 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.720 where these backs like, hey, you know, maybe consider doing 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.600 a broader thing, he writes. Quote, despite the circumstances a 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.599 casual conversation, Mingola's choice was not superficial. Indeed, he claims 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.320 it awakened a passion in him. I had no idea 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.320 then of the mini cited nature of medicine, but the 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.520 kindled flame of enthusiasm would retain its warmth if not 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.600 it's brilliant luminosity forever. How was it possible in so 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.120 short a time to transform someone who was, one could 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.640 almost say, resigned, to someone who was enchanted. Mingola answered 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.160 his own question by suggesting that his friend had unlicked 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.120 to potential that was already present within him. Diesbach was 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.560 a magician, filled with the beauty, grandeur, and high values 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.680 of his science and art, who did not speak of 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.720 the practical possibilities of medicine or the possibility for employment. Rather, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.200 he knew only, probably quite unconsciously, how to incite my 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.880 scientific curiosity and how to translate it into enthusiasm for 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.400 such a versatile subject. He need it only to tell 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.159 me which subjects I would need to take in the 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.039 first semester, and my decision was unshakable, as if I 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.200 had never even thought of another subject to study. Mangola 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.640 elevated the intervention of his friend at just the right 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.760 moment to mythic proportions, comparing the encounter to that if 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.840 Athena visiting Odysseus in the form of a deer. The 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.400 eerie fact that he never saw his friend again caused 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.920 him to muse that perhaps it really had been Athena 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.240 in disguise. That dude definitely just said I gotta get 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:53.240 the fuck away from Yeah, they're just like talk and 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.200 Bappo's life. Maybe I should be a dentist. And he's like, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.760 I don't know, you seem more interfitt in anthropology. Are 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.240 you a Greek god? Are you mad? Jake? You know what, man, 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.880 I'm gonna go to another country. I feel like Germany 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.520 is not in a good mark here. If you flame 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.000 inside my soul, a flame that tells me to dude, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:13.480 so horrible jeans. I just imagine like Desbak becomes like 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.479 a like a pediatrician or something. He moves to Iowa, 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.159 you know, nineteen forty five. He's like waking up in 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:20.920 the morning, he puts on the radio, he's got a 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.880 cup of coffee. Story about Mangela comes on. He's like, 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:32.000 ah shit, oh boy, I can't tell anybody about this. Yeah, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:37.440 don't inspire. Never knew him, never knew him. No, no, no, no, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.120 my name is Disbach, not Desbak. Yeah sorry, no, no, no, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.680 you got the wrong guy. Wrong guy. I've never been 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.000 to Germany. Um So I don't know the message of 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.200 this is, never inspire your friends if your if your 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.400 friends say I want to be a dentist, say yeah, 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.440 teeth fucking rule bro? Yeah whatever, Yeah, I am not 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.680 getting involved. You never know where the branch. I don't 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.039 know what the fuck you should do. Why are you 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.520 talking to me? I'm not athen a fuck off? Yeah. Yeah. 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.320 If a friend ever asked you what to do with 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.000 their life, tell them I am not a god. I 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.400 don't know. World needs janitors. Many janitors have pretty much 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:19.080 never done anything wrong. Do something simple and valuable. Yes, So. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.400 Mangelis first few years in school were characterized by a 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.720 growing obsession with genetics and evolution. The men who tutored him, 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.400 first in Munich and then in Frankfurt were adherents of 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.400 a school of evolutionary theory that believed modern society and 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.160 social justice movements had corrupted the purity of Darwinian evolution. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.640 There's a big attitude among the Nazis, very similar wording 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.920 to what the right use of today. That social justice, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.680 which they called it, was a Jewish invention, right, and 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.480 it was specifically it was part of an insidious Jewish plot, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.760 because if you believe all the shit about race science, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.480 then doing stuff like feeding the starving like putting vagrants 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.960 in housing. You're doing that to weaken the bloodline of 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.280 the Germans by allowing those people to persist in breed, 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.800 and so it's an attempt to betray Germany for the 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.240 next war. If you've wondered, why are the social justice 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:05.680 stuff on the right, like where a lot of that 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.120 comes from. That's a big part of it. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:09.600 you scratch it a little bit, and then all of 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.200 a sudden you get into like Judeoe Bolshevism or some 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.440 weird shit cultural Marxism, and then there's like, for some reason, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.760 a star of David. You're like, oh, okay. So one 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.760 of Joseph's first mentors was doctor Ernst Rudin, who was 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.880 a prominent backer of the idea that doctors should proactively 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.840 destroy what he called life devoid of value. This would 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.679 evolve into the Nazi concept of life unworthy of life, 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.120 which is kind of the most direct translation of how 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.680 Germans talked about the Nazis talked about this in German. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.439 Rudin would go on to author the first Nazi compulsory 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.040 sterilization laws, which were instituted in July of nineteen thirty three. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.080 This is seven months after the Enabling Act. I think 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.439 or seven months after Hitler rises to power. Thing, it's 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.440 a little less than that after the Enabling Act, but 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.200 that should the fact that this happens so quickly, this 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.640 is almost the first thing the Nazis do, should give 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.080 you any idea of the centrality the Nazis placed on 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.440 this idea. The Law for the Protection of Hereditary Health 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.640 provided the first list of conditions that qualified one from 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:15.720 mandatory sterilization. Schizophrenia, manic depression, epilepsy, hereditary blindness, deafness, Huntington's disease, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.240 all physical deformities, and what was called feeble mindedness, alcoholism, 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.440 drug addiction. These are all believed to be hereditary and 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.280 thus problems that could only be stopped by excising them 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.040 from the human genome. The fact that alcoholism is on 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.480 there is funny. If you've ever liked spent thirty five 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:38.880 seconds in Berlin a single, you can buy a leader 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.760 of beer for two dollars and drink it on a train. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:47.600 Like clarifying question, what do you consider alcoholism? You just 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.760 just want to know how many beers were talking about? Yeah, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.920 I mean, I agree, very degenerate. Anyone having more than 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.960 sixteen to twenty beers a day. You know. Goodles have 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.320 to die, you know, so, yeah, that's some good. It's 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.600 always fun to do jokes like that with the Germans 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:09.160 because you know, they gave up the right to be office. Absolutely. Yeah, 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.959 it's like I don't know Texans. So casual observers of 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.200 the Nazi regime often accused Hitler of being obsessed with 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.920 racial purity and believing that Germans were Aryan superman. Now 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.360 it's usually not worth like just correcting people, but that 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.360 is fundamentally wrong. That is not what Hitler believed. He 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.320 did not believe the Germans were Aryan superman. Instead, he 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:36.040 believed in the perfectability of Aryan descended people like the 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.439 Germans through careful scientific guidance. And that is different. He's 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.760 not saying we are superman. He is saying, using science 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.360 and breeding, we can become superman by excising these these 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.079 like degenerate influences from our bloodline and encouraging people who 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.319 are more pure to breed together. Right, That is a 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.280 that is a different thing. Yeah, he was doing a manifestation, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.280 you know, he's doing wellness basically, Well, I think I 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.320 think the reason it is worth kind of pointing out 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.120 why the more common belief is wrong is because the 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.720 common belief is just racism, just like, hey, we're better 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.760 than everybody, which is less unsettling and less toxic than 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.560 what the Nazis believed, which is we can make people like. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.040 A lot of the Holocaust comes because we are attempting 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.760 to make people better, right, that is what Mingle. The 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.319 people he kills will die in service of this goal, 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.480 so it is important to get that right. Obviously. Hitler 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.480 is a massive advocate and supporter of the German medical 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.600 establishment that was the most important part of the German 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.320 state to him, and one of his first speeches is Fearer. 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:41.480 Hitler addressed the National Socialist German Physicians League or in 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.280 s DAB. He told them that lawyers and engineers and 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.320 architects were all replaceable in his vision of the future. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.679 None of those career paths were crucial to Nazism succeeding, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:56.160 but National Socialist doctors were utterly necessary. He told them, 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.160 I cannot do without you for a single day, not 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.120 a single if not for you, if you fail me, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.600 then all is lost. For what good are our struggles 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.080 if the health of our people is in danger. Key 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.040 to this idea is the concept that doctors should not 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.640 be concerned primarily with the health of the individual, for 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.760 this is secondary to the health of the Volk or people. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.560 This means that a Nazi doctor is not violating his 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.400 Hippocratic oath if he sterilizes or kills people as long 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.000 as those people are threats to the well being of 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.920 the people's racial community. Right fun, Yeah, that is why. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.080 That is how they justify I'm not saying they're not, 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.040 obviously they are in fact violating the hypocritic, but this 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.840 is how they see it. Right and early Nsdab Guideline stated, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.880 from the first day, we have made it clear that 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.160 the major turnabout in the world view of our days, 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.320 an essential portion of which is vanquishing the individual through 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.640 experiencing the people, must be the guiding principle of the 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.640 morality and ethics of the medical profession. That is a 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:03.400 crucial phrase. Vanquishing the individual through experiencing the people. That's 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:08.360 the holocaust. That is the holocaust in a nutshell, Young 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.040 Joseph would spend the best days of his career vanquishing 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.240 individuals in order to support the Volk. He was not 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.200 an immediately committed Nazi, though for in those last days 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.240 of Weimar, the German nationalist right was large enough to 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.400 fill several movements that did not all see eye to eye. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.840 Rather than joining the Nazis early on in March of 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.840 nineteen thirty one, he joined the youth wing of the Stahalhelm, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.080 an ex soldier organization who marched in uniform. And we're 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.400 kind of like a more organized ver you know, like 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.640 the Oathkeepers. How they're mostly like silly bastards. This is 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.520 the Oathkeepers. If they had all spent like four years 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.520 drowning in the blood of their best friends in the 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:47.320 trash exactly, just yeah, watching all of their homies get 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:52.400 sucked into yeah mud bogs and sucking in mustard gas. Yeah, 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:54.719 if the oath Keepers had been at J six, they 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.720 would not have been turned away by Mason tier Gas exactly. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.680 Or yeah, if the Stallhelm sorry had been at J six, 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.280 not the Oathkeepers. They're a bunch of seditious babies. Not 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.640 to praise them. These guys are far right. Their assholes, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.400 They massacre Communists in the street. They're horrible people. They're 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.800 just frightening. So as he progresses through his studies in 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.080 the nineteen thirties, he comes to conceive of himself as 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.880 a biological soldier for the health of the Volk, which 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.160 is actually a direct quote from the Reich Health Office 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.880 president Hans Writer, who added that the destiny of the 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.960 German Volk rests entirely in the hands of the German physician. 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:36.120 Mangolist professors were not all committed Nazis, of course, nor 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.720 was all of this genetic science that he studied based 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.760 on pseudoscientific principles. One of his teachers was Carl von Frisch, 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.240 a zoologist who authored pioneering studies of honeybees and won 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.480 the Nobel Prize for Medicine in nineteen seventy three. It's 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.920 Frisch who mangel A credits with sparking his lifelong fascination 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.760 with zoology. Quote in such a lasting way that I 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.360 have kept this fire my entire life and have all 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.640 too often been warmed by it. Frisch would come into 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.920 contact and again fritch is one of the guys who 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.800 inspires Mangola to go down this path. He is not 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.440 a Nazi. He actually gets in trouble with the Nazis 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.480 a number of times because he insists on employing Jewish 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.960 assistance after they come to power, many of whom are women. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.400 He employs a lot of Jewish female scientists during the 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.760 Third Reich, and he almost gets like like he gets fired, 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.280 but he gets brought back because he's just such a 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.400 good scientist. But he actually protects a lot of Jewish 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:32.560 people by basically sheltering them through his fame. Another scientist 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.760 who teaches Mangola and is this kind of guy, is 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.680 Otto Violent. Violent is a chemistry professor. Mangel actually does 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.840 not like Violent. He thinks he's brilliant, but he's a 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.440 bad teacher because he's just more interested in his research. 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.640 Violind actually wins a Nobel Prize. He's a very very 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.680 good scientist, and during the Nazi regime, Violent also shields 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.960 Jewish students using his notoriety to protect them from the Holocaust. 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.000 And that's part of the complexity of this is that 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.560 these guys are not hardcore ray scientists. Obviously, they're just geneticists. 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.280 They're doing that kind of science. But it all gets 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.080 lumped intogether. So a number of the people that Mangela 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.760 admires are folks who will risk their lives to protect 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:11.120 Jews during the Holocaust. M just again you know, complicated. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.040 M Yeah, you know, yeah, it's uh, it's sounds like 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.120 the recurring theme is just like you know, you're taking 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.040 just you're picking and choosing a little bit of facts 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:29.160 from each you know, exactly exactly each study to try 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.040 to bolster your weird race science thing. So yeah, where 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.440 as opposed to like Fritsch and Violin, who are very 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.440 focused have like really are have become incredible experts on 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.280 a specific thing from deep deep rigor, he's just kind 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.480 of picking a la carte shit and ignoring the whole 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.920 I'm gonna shield a bunch of Jews during the Holocaust 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.560 because it's fucked up stuff that they do. See this one. 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.520 You should be a dentist. Yes, it's a specialty, but 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.200 you know what, you won't be a Nazi. Yeah maybe, 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.280 I don't know. There were a lot of not one 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.080 of the guys he works with that Auschwitz isn't acted dentist. 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:10.119 St Yeah. Um. Anyway, Mangola imbibed the scientific lessons of 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.280 these men, but obviously not their morality. Unfortunately, this was 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.479 also the case for the teacher he respected most as 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.720 an undergraduate, Siegfried Moliere, the director of the Munich University 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.800 Anatomical Institute. I'm going to quote from David Marwell's book. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.399 Mangola here, Molier or Malier whatever, counseled his students that 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.800 a good physician must conceive of body and soul as 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.439 a unity. He spoke of the majesty of death that 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.560 they would encounter in their work. Later, when Mollier instructed 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.399 them in the in the Anatomy Lab, Mangola wrote that 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.840 the great teacher wanted them to have a deep, even 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.480 intuitive understanding of anatomy, and not just memorized terms. He 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.399 definitely demonstrated what was visible through dissection, the functional relationship 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.720 and the structural efficiency of the components of the human body. 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.680 Mangola was particularly moved by Mollier's introduction to the dissection 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.040 labs my entire life, even in the most difficult situations. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.440 I can hear his solo words from that time when 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.560 he spoke of the rights of the dead, that we 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:08.520 should always approach the dead with dignity and gravity. Yeah, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.840 as long as they're dead. M Yeah, I mean he 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.840 doesn't really do that. It's one of those It's weird 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.000 how much he idolizes this guy, because that is I 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.000 would argue not how he treats the dead, although he 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.439 I will explain his argument a little more later when 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.119 we get to that portion of it. So, during his 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.800 first years in college, Joseph still suffered from the after 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.960 effects of blood poisoning that had darkened his adolescence. The 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.520 future arbiter of racial health was not well enough to 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.800 walk the distance between his various classes, so his parents 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.280 bought him a car. This proved to be the saving 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.560 grace of his social life. Having a car made it 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.879 easier to make friends, or at least to hang around 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.120 with other young people who needed a ride. He's exact 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.159 type of guy. He's the car guy. Yeah, he's the 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.840 car guys school, who's like, he's really intense, he writes 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.800 a lot of poetry. He's kind of fucking weirdo. But yeah, 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.720 we're all going to the beach. We gotta get yeah 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.600 fucking Joey m Yeah. I mean my version of that 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.159 was the car guy who was ten years older than 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.040 us and would buy us beer. But yeah, same kind 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.479 of guy. Really, I'm sure maybe he's a Nazi now. So. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.880 In his memoirs, Mengela remembered this period as a lonely 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.880 One quote It is precisely this feeling of being alone, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.240 the lack of an intimate connection to family, the lack 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.800 of a true friendship, that I felt so bitterly in 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.560 the first few semesters. He notes that he engaged in 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.919 superficial pleasure seeking, using his access to money to engage 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.239 in the trappings of a social life while living a 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.080 shallow existence. Mengela claimed that during his early college years 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.000 he did not seek an honest friendship. He claimed, failing 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.600 to overcome his isolation disguised this inner and ability in 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:44.119 an easily misinterpreted preservation of the remoteness of cool impersonality 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:46.960 and unsocial arrogance, which may have had the effect of 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.240 discouraging all who otherwise came to me in friendship and affection. 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.840 In other words, he can't let anybody in, so he 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.919 pretends that he's better than everyone else so that he 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:01.720 doesn't have to actually get to know anybody and accept vulnerability. Um, yeah, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:07.159 I mean, normal adolescent you know struggles, Yeah, safe for 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.640 the whole you know, the race science stuff aside from 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.200 the race science, yeah, pretty pretty understandable. So I mean, 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.440 at this point in his life, you could write a 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.440 nice little coming of age novel. Sure if the end yeah, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.199 it's different. Yeah, I'm actually working on a series of 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.840 Nazi coming of age novels. Um. Oh yeah, no, it's 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.600 gonna be gonna be good. Um, gonna be yeah, exactly. 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.600 That's what we don't have enough of. Why why a 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:36.520 Nazi books? Yeah, yeah it is. There's a there's a 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.800 series of detective books that I read from time to time, 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.359 the Bernie Gunther books, which are like about a detective 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.040 who is not a Nazi but is first in the 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.159 Weimar State and that is in the Nazi state, and 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.160 because he's such a good detective, he gets like brought 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.480 in by Nazis when there's these murder mysteries or assassinations 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.080 of Natzi, he's like forced into the SS. It's really 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.680 there's there's some good books. There's some weird stuff in 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.760 a couple of them. Um yeah, like it's it's firmly 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.000 anti Nazi. He portrays them all as monsters, but he 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.880 has to do it. There's some sweatiness to explain how 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:09.800 are you in the SS and like not part of 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.320 war craft. It's it's weird some, but there's a pretty 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.720 good books about anything fiction. You can go in any 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.720 world you want and instead you want to make something. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.760 I don't know, guys, it's hard to explain. So the books, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:24.760 the earlier books in the series, where he's like a 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.800 detective in Weimar, Berlin during the fighting between Nazis and Communists, 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:30.760 there's some really cool stuff there because he knows his 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.040 stuff about the historical period. Some of the later stuff 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.359 gets a little weirder, but you know, if you're looking 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.479 for a fucking Nazi themed detective novel, there you go. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.159 So starting in nineteen thirty four, Mangela began taking pediatric 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.600 medicine courses with the whimsically named doctor Franz Hamburger, a 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.040 proponent of right wing Vulkish medicine who joined the Nazi 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.000 Party that same year. His clinic advocated for euthanasia and 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.080 regularly sent disabled children to a year by hotspital, where 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:05.480 hundreds of them were murdered by the state, like Gurger 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:07.800 doing war crimes. And I'm just like all I can 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:12.320 pictures Mayor meet Cheese. Yeah, it's really well, you know. 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:17.720 Mayor mccheese was actually had some strong opinions on racial hygiene, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.119