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Speaker 1: Ah, what's artificial my intelligence? I am Robert Evans. This

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Speaker 1: is Behind the Bastards, a podcast that's not about AI

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Speaker 1: large language model learning tools, but might be because I

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Speaker 1: so I want to commit confess something to you, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: and to you uh uh Matt leeb that that's been

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Speaker 1: getting it's been trouble to remember my name, dude. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: so Matt, Sophie. I've been thinking about playing around with

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Speaker 1: some of these these AIS that everybody's getting into, where

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Speaker 1: you can like have them generate images and shit right

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Speaker 1: where they Yeah, seems kind of cool, but I haven't

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Speaker 1: done it yet because I can't get a specific prompt

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Speaker 1: out of my head, which is a hybrid of of

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Speaker 1: of Um of Epstein and Carle ray Jepson that's just

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Speaker 1: called Carly ray Jepstein. I don't know why it won't

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Speaker 1: leave my head. It's an intrusive thought. I can't get

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Speaker 1: rid of it. Um. But yeah, yeah, so I bet

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Speaker 1: they could do a great job AI. You know, they

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Speaker 1: make all sorts of combinations. I love it. You're a

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Speaker 1: little imingle over call me maybe same song with Carly

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Speaker 1: ray Jepstein, different different, different subtext. Um. Oh god, no,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get in trouble for that. We're bleeping that. Look,

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Speaker 1: we will, we will do this. But I yeah, I did.

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Speaker 1: I did have a little red Corvette parody I did

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Speaker 1: about Jeffrey Epstein that people did not appreciate. Matt. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying, you know, that was if it's parody song,

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Speaker 1: I feel like parody. That's what I felt. But when

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Speaker 1: I sang, well, they're all wrong, I'm not even gonna

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Speaker 1: sing the second verse because please, we're bleeping, we're belief

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Speaker 1: all of this. We're cutting a large Oh boy, that

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Speaker 1: was a fun forty five seconds of material that would

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Speaker 1: have ended both of our careers. I'm Matt, Yeah that

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Speaker 1: was great. I'm trying to die so, you know, and me,

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Speaker 1: you and I both got the Oh wow. You stopped

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Speaker 1: me from making my next joke, which was going to

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Speaker 1: be to say that we both contracted the Epstein. Oh

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Speaker 1: I get it, I get it. That's when you get

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Speaker 1: drunk and make Jeffrey Epstein jokes that get you canceled.

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Speaker 1: Get it, get it. That's not a bad one. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't hate it, But my god, we have

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Speaker 1: to end in a lot. Out of this beginning we've

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Speaker 1: been rec forty five years we have we have all

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Speaker 1: forty five years have been cut. If you want to

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Speaker 1: hear the cut versions, go to the dot com. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the truths behind the Bastards. Yeah, this is where Matt

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Speaker 1: matt Leeb and I matt Leeb and I have a

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Speaker 1: weekly podcast where we do our b sides with Jordan Person.

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Speaker 1: We drink a single pint of cider. We don't sleep

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Speaker 1: for twenty seven days. It's a great time. So let's

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Speaker 1: move on from the unpleasant story. You're making Epstein jokes

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Speaker 1: and you're laughing about it. Look, we have to move

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Speaker 1: on from the depressing tale of Jordan Peterson to talk

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Speaker 1: about a less sad individual, Joseph Mangola. Um oops. So

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Speaker 1: in his early days at school, Mangola still leaned towards

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Speaker 1: dentistry as a career due to the fact again his

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Speaker 1: homeland had or his hometown had no dentists. But of

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Speaker 1: course it's his conversation that he asked with his friend

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Speaker 1: Julius Diisbach, who's a year older than him, who tells

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Speaker 1: him dentistries too specialize. You should do a broader thing.

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Speaker 1: You like anthropology. There's a degree program and anthropology and

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Speaker 1: genetics just do that. So he decides to take his

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Speaker 1: friend's advice and kind of so some people will argue

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Speaker 1: that Mangola was a narcissist. You know, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: I can't diagnose anybody with anything. Um, it's certainly a

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Speaker 1: thing that gets brought up by including by like professionals

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Speaker 1: who go over his notes and stuff. Because he wrote

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Speaker 1: a memoir and years later if TikTok has taught me anything,

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Speaker 1: oh for sure, for sure he had that add he

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Speaker 1: actually is your keys. Yeah. So I don't really know

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Speaker 1: how to finish that joke, mat But what I do

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Speaker 1: know is that David Marwell will point out that, like

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Speaker 1: there's evidence kind of in his later writings that he

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Speaker 1: sort of mythologizes this conversation with his friend D's back

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Speaker 1: where these backs like, hey, you know, maybe consider doing

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Speaker 1: a broader thing, he writes. Quote, despite the circumstances a

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Speaker 1: casual conversation, Mingola's choice was not superficial. Indeed, he claims

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Speaker 1: it awakened a passion in him. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: then of the mini cited nature of medicine, but the

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Speaker 1: kindled flame of enthusiasm would retain its warmth if not

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Speaker 1: it's brilliant luminosity forever. How was it possible in so

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Speaker 1: short a time to transform someone who was, one could

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Speaker 1: almost say, resigned, to someone who was enchanted. Mingola answered

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Speaker 1: his own question by suggesting that his friend had unlicked

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Speaker 1: to potential that was already present within him. Diesbach was

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Speaker 1: a magician, filled with the beauty, grandeur, and high values

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Speaker 1: of his science and art, who did not speak of

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Speaker 1: the practical possibilities of medicine or the possibility for employment. Rather,

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Speaker 1: he knew only, probably quite unconsciously, how to incite my

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Speaker 1: scientific curiosity and how to translate it into enthusiasm for

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Speaker 1: such a versatile subject. He need it only to tell

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Speaker 1: me which subjects I would need to take in the

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Speaker 1: first semester, and my decision was unshakable, as if I

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Speaker 1: had never even thought of another subject to study. Mangola

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Speaker 1: elevated the intervention of his friend at just the right

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Speaker 1: moment to mythic proportions, comparing the encounter to that if

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Speaker 1: Athena visiting Odysseus in the form of a deer. The

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Speaker 1: eerie fact that he never saw his friend again caused

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Speaker 1: him to muse that perhaps it really had been Athena

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Speaker 1: in disguise. That dude definitely just said I gotta get

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Speaker 1: the fuck away from Yeah, they're just like talk and

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Speaker 1: Bappo's life. Maybe I should be a dentist. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you seem more interfitt in anthropology. Are

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Speaker 1: you a Greek god? Are you mad? Jake? You know what, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to another country. I feel like Germany

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Speaker 1: is not in a good mark here. If you flame

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Speaker 1: inside my soul, a flame that tells me to dude,

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Speaker 1: so horrible jeans. I just imagine like Desbak becomes like

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Speaker 1: a like a pediatrician or something. He moves to Iowa,

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Speaker 1: you know, nineteen forty five. He's like waking up in

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Speaker 1: the morning, he puts on the radio, he's got a

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Speaker 1: cup of coffee. Story about Mangela comes on. He's like,

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Speaker 1: ah shit, oh boy, I can't tell anybody about this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't inspire. Never knew him, never knew him. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: my name is Disbach, not Desbak. Yeah sorry, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you got the wrong guy. Wrong guy. I've never been

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Speaker 1: to Germany. Um So I don't know the message of

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Speaker 1: this is, never inspire your friends if your if your

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Speaker 1: friends say I want to be a dentist, say yeah,

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Speaker 1: teeth fucking rule bro? Yeah whatever, Yeah, I am not

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Speaker 1: getting involved. You never know where the branch. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the fuck you should do. Why are you

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Speaker 1: talking to me? I'm not athen a fuck off? Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If a friend ever asked you what to do with

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Speaker 1: their life, tell them I am not a god. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. World needs janitors. Many janitors have pretty much

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Speaker 1: never done anything wrong. Do something simple and valuable. Yes, So.

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Speaker 1: Mangelis first few years in school were characterized by a

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Speaker 1: growing obsession with genetics and evolution. The men who tutored him,

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Speaker 1: first in Munich and then in Frankfurt were adherents of

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Speaker 1: a school of evolutionary theory that believed modern society and

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Speaker 1: social justice movements had corrupted the purity of Darwinian evolution.

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Speaker 1: There's a big attitude among the Nazis, very similar wording

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Speaker 1: to what the right use of today. That social justice,

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Speaker 1: which they called it, was a Jewish invention, right, and

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Speaker 1: it was specifically it was part of an insidious Jewish plot,

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Speaker 1: because if you believe all the shit about race science,

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Speaker 1: then doing stuff like feeding the starving like putting vagrants

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Speaker 1: in housing. You're doing that to weaken the bloodline of

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Speaker 1: the Germans by allowing those people to persist in breed,

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Speaker 1: and so it's an attempt to betray Germany for the

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Speaker 1: next war. If you've wondered, why are the social justice

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Speaker 1: stuff on the right, like where a lot of that

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Speaker 1: comes from. That's a big part of it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you scratch it a little bit, and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden you get into like Judeoe Bolshevism or some

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Speaker 1: weird shit cultural Marxism, and then there's like, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: a star of David. You're like, oh, okay. So one

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Speaker 1: of Joseph's first mentors was doctor Ernst Rudin, who was

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Speaker 1: a prominent backer of the idea that doctors should proactively

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Speaker 1: destroy what he called life devoid of value. This would

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Speaker 1: evolve into the Nazi concept of life unworthy of life,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of the most direct translation of how

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Speaker 1: Germans talked about the Nazis talked about this in German.

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Speaker 1: Rudin would go on to author the first Nazi compulsory

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Speaker 1: sterilization laws, which were instituted in July of nineteen thirty three.

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Speaker 1: This is seven months after the Enabling Act. I think

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Speaker 1: or seven months after Hitler rises to power. Thing, it's

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Speaker 1: a little less than that after the Enabling Act, but

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Speaker 1: that should the fact that this happens so quickly, this

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Speaker 1: is almost the first thing the Nazis do, should give

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Speaker 1: you any idea of the centrality the Nazis placed on

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Speaker 1: this idea. The Law for the Protection of Hereditary Health

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Speaker 1: provided the first list of conditions that qualified one from

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Speaker 1: mandatory sterilization. Schizophrenia, manic depression, epilepsy, hereditary blindness, deafness, Huntington's disease,

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Speaker 1: all physical deformities, and what was called feeble mindedness, alcoholism,

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Speaker 1: drug addiction. These are all believed to be hereditary and

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Speaker 1: thus problems that could only be stopped by excising them

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Speaker 1: from the human genome. The fact that alcoholism is on

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Speaker 1: there is funny. If you've ever liked spent thirty five

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Speaker 1: seconds in Berlin a single, you can buy a leader

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Speaker 1: of beer for two dollars and drink it on a train.

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Speaker 1: Like clarifying question, what do you consider alcoholism? You just

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Speaker 1: just want to know how many beers were talking about? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, very degenerate. Anyone having more than

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Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty beers a day. You know. Goodles have

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Speaker 1: to die, you know, so, yeah, that's some good. It's

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Speaker 1: always fun to do jokes like that with the Germans

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Speaker 1: because you know, they gave up the right to be office. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like I don't know Texans. So casual observers of

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Speaker 1: the Nazi regime often accused Hitler of being obsessed with

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Speaker 1: racial purity and believing that Germans were Aryan superman. Now

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Speaker 1: it's usually not worth like just correcting people, but that

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Speaker 1: is fundamentally wrong. That is not what Hitler believed. He

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Speaker 1: did not believe the Germans were Aryan superman. Instead, he

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Speaker 1: believed in the perfectability of Aryan descended people like the

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Speaker 1: Germans through careful scientific guidance. And that is different. He's

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Speaker 1: not saying we are superman. He is saying, using science

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Speaker 1: and breeding, we can become superman by excising these these

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Speaker 1: like degenerate influences from our bloodline and encouraging people who

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Speaker 1: are more pure to breed together. Right, That is a

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Speaker 1: that is a different thing. Yeah, he was doing a manifestation,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's doing wellness basically, Well, I think I

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Speaker 1: think the reason it is worth kind of pointing out

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Speaker 1: why the more common belief is wrong is because the

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Speaker 1: common belief is just racism, just like, hey, we're better

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Speaker 1: than everybody, which is less unsettling and less toxic than

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Speaker 1: what the Nazis believed, which is we can make people like.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the Holocaust comes because we are attempting

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Speaker 1: to make people better, right, that is what Mingle. The

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Speaker 1: people he kills will die in service of this goal,

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Speaker 1: so it is important to get that right. Obviously. Hitler

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Speaker 1: is a massive advocate and supporter of the German medical

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Speaker 1: establishment that was the most important part of the German

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Speaker 1: state to him, and one of his first speeches is Fearer.

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Speaker 1: Hitler addressed the National Socialist German Physicians League or in

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Speaker 1: s DAB. He told them that lawyers and engineers and

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Speaker 1: architects were all replaceable in his vision of the future.

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Speaker 1: None of those career paths were crucial to Nazism succeeding,

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Speaker 1: but National Socialist doctors were utterly necessary. He told them,

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Speaker 1: I cannot do without you for a single day, not

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Speaker 1: a single if not for you, if you fail me,

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Speaker 1: then all is lost. For what good are our struggles

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Speaker 1: if the health of our people is in danger. Key

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Speaker 1: to this idea is the concept that doctors should not

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Speaker 1: be concerned primarily with the health of the individual, for

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Speaker 1: this is secondary to the health of the Volk or people.

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Speaker 1: This means that a Nazi doctor is not violating his

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Speaker 1: Hippocratic oath if he sterilizes or kills people as long

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Speaker 1: as those people are threats to the well being of

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Speaker 1: the people's racial community. Right fun, Yeah, that is why.

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Speaker 1: That is how they justify I'm not saying they're not,

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Speaker 1: obviously they are in fact violating the hypocritic, but this

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Speaker 1: is how they see it. Right and early Nsdab Guideline stated,

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Speaker 1: from the first day, we have made it clear that

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Speaker 1: the major turnabout in the world view of our days,

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Speaker 1: an essential portion of which is vanquishing the individual through

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Speaker 1: experiencing the people, must be the guiding principle of the

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Speaker 1: morality and ethics of the medical profession. That is a

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Speaker 1: crucial phrase. Vanquishing the individual through experiencing the people. That's

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Speaker 1: the holocaust. That is the holocaust in a nutshell, Young

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Speaker 1: Joseph would spend the best days of his career vanquishing

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Speaker 1: individuals in order to support the Volk. He was not

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Speaker 1: an immediately committed Nazi, though for in those last days

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Speaker 1: of Weimar, the German nationalist right was large enough to

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Speaker 1: fill several movements that did not all see eye to eye.

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Speaker 1: Rather than joining the Nazis early on in March of

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, he joined the youth wing of the Stahalhelm,

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Speaker 1: an ex soldier organization who marched in uniform. And we're

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Speaker 1: kind of like a more organized ver you know, like

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Speaker 1: the Oathkeepers. How they're mostly like silly bastards. This is

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Speaker 1: the Oathkeepers. If they had all spent like four years

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Speaker 1: drowning in the blood of their best friends in the

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Speaker 1: trash exactly, just yeah, watching all of their homies get

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Speaker 1: sucked into yeah mud bogs and sucking in mustard gas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if the oath Keepers had been at J six, they

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Speaker 1: would not have been turned away by Mason tier Gas exactly.

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Speaker 1: Or yeah, if the Stallhelm sorry had been at J six,

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Speaker 1: not the Oathkeepers. They're a bunch of seditious babies. Not

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Speaker 1: to praise them. These guys are far right. Their assholes,

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Speaker 1: They massacre Communists in the street. They're horrible people. They're

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Speaker 1: just frightening. So as he progresses through his studies in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, he comes to conceive of himself as

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Speaker 1: a biological soldier for the health of the Volk, which

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Speaker 1: is actually a direct quote from the Reich Health Office

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Speaker 1: president Hans Writer, who added that the destiny of the

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Speaker 1: German Volk rests entirely in the hands of the German physician.

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Speaker 1: Mangolist professors were not all committed Nazis, of course, nor

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Speaker 1: was all of this genetic science that he studied based

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Speaker 1: on pseudoscientific principles. One of his teachers was Carl von Frisch,

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Speaker 1: a zoologist who authored pioneering studies of honeybees and won

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Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize for Medicine in nineteen seventy three. It's

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Speaker 1: Frisch who mangel A credits with sparking his lifelong fascination

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Speaker 1: with zoology. Quote in such a lasting way that I

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Speaker 1: have kept this fire my entire life and have all

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Speaker 1: too often been warmed by it. Frisch would come into

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Speaker 1: contact and again fritch is one of the guys who

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Speaker 1: inspires Mangola to go down this path. He is not

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Speaker 1: a Nazi. He actually gets in trouble with the Nazis

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Speaker 1: a number of times because he insists on employing Jewish

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Speaker 1: assistance after they come to power, many of whom are women.

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Speaker 1: He employs a lot of Jewish female scientists during the

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Speaker 1: Third Reich, and he almost gets like like he gets fired,

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Speaker 1: but he gets brought back because he's just such a

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Speaker 1: good scientist. But he actually protects a lot of Jewish

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Speaker 1: people by basically sheltering them through his fame. Another scientist

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Speaker 1: who teaches Mangola and is this kind of guy, is

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Speaker 1: Otto Violent. Violent is a chemistry professor. Mangel actually does

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Speaker 1: not like Violent. He thinks he's brilliant, but he's a

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Speaker 1: bad teacher because he's just more interested in his research.

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Speaker 1: Violind actually wins a Nobel Prize. He's a very very

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Speaker 1: good scientist, and during the Nazi regime, Violent also shields

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Speaker 1: Jewish students using his notoriety to protect them from the Holocaust.

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Speaker 1: And that's part of the complexity of this is that

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Speaker 1: these guys are not hardcore ray scientists. Obviously, they're just geneticists.

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Speaker 1: They're doing that kind of science. But it all gets

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Speaker 1: lumped intogether. So a number of the people that Mangela

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Speaker 1: admires are folks who will risk their lives to protect

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Speaker 1: Jews during the Holocaust. M just again you know, complicated.

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Speaker 1: M Yeah, you know, yeah, it's uh, it's sounds like

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Speaker 1: the recurring theme is just like you know, you're taking

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Speaker 1: just you're picking and choosing a little bit of facts

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Speaker 1: from each you know, exactly exactly each study to try

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Speaker 1: to bolster your weird race science thing. So yeah, where

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Speaker 1: as opposed to like Fritsch and Violin, who are very

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Speaker 1: focused have like really are have become incredible experts on

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Speaker 1: a specific thing from deep deep rigor, he's just kind

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Speaker 1: of picking a la carte shit and ignoring the whole

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna shield a bunch of Jews during the Holocaust

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Speaker 1: because it's fucked up stuff that they do. See this one.

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Speaker 1: You should be a dentist. Yes, it's a specialty, but

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Speaker 1: you know what, you won't be a Nazi. Yeah maybe,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. There were a lot of not one

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Speaker 1: of the guys he works with that Auschwitz isn't acted dentist.

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Speaker 1: St Yeah. Um. Anyway, Mangola imbibed the scientific lessons of

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Speaker 1: these men, but obviously not their morality. Unfortunately, this was

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Speaker 1: also the case for the teacher he respected most as

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Speaker 1: an undergraduate, Siegfried Moliere, the director of the Munich University

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Speaker 1: Anatomical Institute. I'm going to quote from David Marwell's book.

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Speaker 1: Mangola here, Molier or Malier whatever, counseled his students that

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Speaker 1: a good physician must conceive of body and soul as

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Speaker 1: a unity. He spoke of the majesty of death that

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Speaker 1: they would encounter in their work. Later, when Mollier instructed

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Speaker 1: them in the in the Anatomy Lab, Mangola wrote that

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Speaker 1: the great teacher wanted them to have a deep, even

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Speaker 1: intuitive understanding of anatomy, and not just memorized terms. He

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Speaker 1: definitely demonstrated what was visible through dissection, the functional relationship

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Speaker 1: and the structural efficiency of the components of the human body.

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Speaker 1: Mangola was particularly moved by Mollier's introduction to the dissection

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Speaker 1: labs my entire life, even in the most difficult situations.

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Speaker 1: I can hear his solo words from that time when

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Speaker 1: he spoke of the rights of the dead, that we

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Speaker 1: should always approach the dead with dignity and gravity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as long as they're dead. M Yeah, I mean he

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Speaker 1: doesn't really do that. It's one of those It's weird

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Speaker 1: how much he idolizes this guy, because that is I

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Speaker 1: would argue not how he treats the dead, although he

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Speaker 1: I will explain his argument a little more later when

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Speaker 1: we get to that portion of it. So, during his

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Speaker 1: first years in college, Joseph still suffered from the after

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Speaker 1: effects of blood poisoning that had darkened his adolescence. The

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Speaker 1: future arbiter of racial health was not well enough to

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Speaker 1: walk the distance between his various classes, so his parents

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Speaker 1: bought him a car. This proved to be the saving

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Speaker 1: grace of his social life. Having a car made it

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Speaker 1: easier to make friends, or at least to hang around

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Speaker 1: with other young people who needed a ride. He's exact

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Speaker 1: type of guy. He's the car guy. Yeah, he's the

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Speaker 1: car guys school, who's like, he's really intense, he writes

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Speaker 1: a lot of poetry. He's kind of fucking weirdo. But yeah,

339
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: we're all going to the beach. We gotta get yeah

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00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 1: fucking Joey m Yeah. I mean my version of that

341
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,159
Speaker 1: was the car guy who was ten years older than

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Speaker 1: us and would buy us beer. But yeah, same kind

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00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,479
Speaker 1: of guy. Really, I'm sure maybe he's a Nazi now. So.

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Speaker 1: In his memoirs, Mengela remembered this period as a lonely

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Speaker 1: One quote It is precisely this feeling of being alone,

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Speaker 1: the lack of an intimate connection to family, the lack

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Speaker 1: of a true friendship, that I felt so bitterly in

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Speaker 1: the first few semesters. He notes that he engaged in

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Speaker 1: superficial pleasure seeking, using his access to money to engage

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Speaker 1: in the trappings of a social life while living a

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Speaker 1: shallow existence. Mengela claimed that during his early college years

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Speaker 1: he did not seek an honest friendship. He claimed, failing

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Speaker 1: to overcome his isolation disguised this inner and ability in

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Speaker 1: an easily misinterpreted preservation of the remoteness of cool impersonality

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Speaker 1: and unsocial arrogance, which may have had the effect of

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Speaker 1: discouraging all who otherwise came to me in friendship and affection.

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Speaker 1: In other words, he can't let anybody in, so he

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Speaker 1: pretends that he's better than everyone else so that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to actually get to know anybody and accept vulnerability. Um, yeah,

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00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 1: I mean, normal adolescent you know struggles, Yeah, safe for

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00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: the whole you know, the race science stuff aside from

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00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: the race science, yeah, pretty pretty understandable. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: at this point in his life, you could write a

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Speaker 1: nice little coming of age novel. Sure if the end yeah,

365
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,199
Speaker 1: it's different. Yeah, I'm actually working on a series of

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Speaker 1: Nazi coming of age novels. Um. Oh yeah, no, it's

367
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Speaker 1: gonna be gonna be good. Um, gonna be yeah, exactly.

368
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Speaker 1: That's what we don't have enough of. Why why a

369
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Speaker 1: Nazi books? Yeah, yeah it is. There's a there's a

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Speaker 1: series of detective books that I read from time to time,

371
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: the Bernie Gunther books, which are like about a detective

372
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Speaker 1: who is not a Nazi but is first in the

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Speaker 1: Weimar State and that is in the Nazi state, and

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Speaker 1: because he's such a good detective, he gets like brought

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Speaker 1: in by Nazis when there's these murder mysteries or assassinations

376
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: of Natzi, he's like forced into the SS. It's really

377
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: there's there's some good books. There's some weird stuff in

378
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: a couple of them. Um yeah, like it's it's firmly

379
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: anti Nazi. He portrays them all as monsters, but he

380
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: has to do it. There's some sweatiness to explain how

381
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: are you in the SS and like not part of

382
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: war craft. It's it's weird some, but there's a pretty

383
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: good books about anything fiction. You can go in any

384
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: world you want and instead you want to make something.

385
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Speaker 1: I don't know, guys, it's hard to explain. So the books,

386
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: the earlier books in the series, where he's like a

387
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: detective in Weimar, Berlin during the fighting between Nazis and Communists,

388
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: there's some really cool stuff there because he knows his

389
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: stuff about the historical period. Some of the later stuff

390
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: gets a little weirder, but you know, if you're looking

391
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 1: for a fucking Nazi themed detective novel, there you go.

392
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: So starting in nineteen thirty four, Mangela began taking pediatric

393
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: medicine courses with the whimsically named doctor Franz Hamburger, a

394
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: proponent of right wing Vulkish medicine who joined the Nazi

395
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: Party that same year. His clinic advocated for euthanasia and

396
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: regularly sent disabled children to a year by hotspital, where

397
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: hundreds of them were murdered by the state, like Gurger

398
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: doing war crimes. And I'm just like all I can

399
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: pictures Mayor meet Cheese. Yeah, it's really well, you know.

400
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: Mayor mccheese was actually had some strong opinions on racial hygiene,

401
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: which is a big part of why all of his

402
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: patties are one hundred percent beef. But anyway, Um, it

403
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: was his work for Doctor Hamburger that would get Mangela

404
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: his first kind of experience with twin studies, which is

405
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: going to become he's going to like become a lifelong

406
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: sort of he's going to develop a lifelong fascination for twins.

407
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about why in a scientific

408
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: sense that was the case. But first, Matt, you want

409
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: to talk about some products, some services. I love products,

410
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: I love services. I love being told what to buy

411
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: and want to do it. You know, we are often

412
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: told by our marketing department that there's nothing advertisers like

413
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: more than being led into an ad by talking about

414
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: Joseph Mangela's twin studies. Um, that really, that really moves

415
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: the subscription boxes. Yeah. I mean, you know, people here

416
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,239
Speaker 1: twins and they're not immediately horned up. Yeah, man doing it.

417
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: Speaking of twins. We got a two for the price

418
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: of one deal. We'll probably bleep some of that. Ah,

419
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: here's some ads. Oh we're back, so then and now

420
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: then being Nazi times, twin studies are considered incredibly useful

421
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: for studying the difference between, for example, nature and nurture.

422
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: On health outcomes. Right, there's two kinds of twins. There's

423
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: identical twins and fraternal twins. Identical twins come from the

424
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: same you know, baby goo things zygote or whatever, um,

425
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: and thus differences because they you know, are genetically identical,

426
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: the differences between them can be kind of attributed. It's

427
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: either going to be an environmental or a social factor. Right,

428
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: when you have a health who you are? I didn't

429
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, I have a twin sister, and that's

430
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: the other kind. Um, So you're not as useful to

431
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: Joseph Mangle. He's still useless. He still would have been

432
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: interested in you guys, don't don't don't get me wrong,

433
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah he would, but he would have found a different

434
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: reason maybe yeah, yeah, well yeah, I mean they use

435
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: both kind of twins. So twins are useful for studying

436
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: hereditary illnesses right, for among other things. Mangel's first attempt

437
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: to study twins involved the daughters of a colleague and

438
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: ended an awkward failure. He like comes over to her

439
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: house and he's like, hey, can I talk to your daughters?

440
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: And she's like, what do you want to talk to

441
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: him about? Oh? You know, twins, stuff, sign stuff, and

442
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: they're like, they're like weirded out by him. They don't

443
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: agree to work with him. Good good parent in call

444
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: not letting Joseph Mangel and are your twins Nazi? But

445
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm not a fucking weirdot. Get the hell out of here, Joey.

446
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: And the fact that he does this so awkwardly is

447
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: kind of evidence of the fact that while twin studies

448
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: are incredibly valuable, scientists who are in this field are

449
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: always looking for groups of twins that they can carry

450
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: out studies on. It's like number one, it's always hard

451
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: to get parents to agree for that. There's a limit

452
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: to the kind of studies you can do when you

453
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: consider them human beings. And there's not that many twins,

454
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: so that's a problem for guys like Joseph. It's not

455
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: always going to be a problem for guys like Joseph,

456
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: but it's it's a problem for him at this point.

457
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: On April fifth, nineteen thirty three, Hitler announced that German

458
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: doctors needed to move with all energy towards solving the

459
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: race question. The center of this scientific effort was again

460
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: based around the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Human Genetics,

461
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: and eugenics. In nineteen thirty four, another bout of ill

462
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: health forced Mangela to quit the Staalhelm, which by then

463
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: had been absorbed into the Nazi brown Shirts. He had

464
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: not yet joined the party officially. He decided his physical

465
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: weakness meant he needed to dedicate his energy towards his studies,

466
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: and so he did. As Gerald Posner writes, the man

467
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: who gave Mangela his first real leg up on the

468
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: academic ladder was Professor T. Mollinson of Munich University. His

469
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 1: experience in the field of heredity and racial hygiene led

470
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: Mollinson to claim that he could tell if a person

471
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: had Jewish forebears simply by looking at a photograph. In

472
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five, Mollinson awarded Mangola a PhD for his

473
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: thesis entitled Racial Morphological Research on the lower jaw section

474
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: of four racial groups entitled Oh just look at him?

475
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah just ladies, guys, Yeah, yeah, now always tell Posner

476
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: will will argue that, like, uh, Mangels Report number one.

477
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: He's like, Mallinson is pretty unscientific, and a lot of

478
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: his claims. Mangels Report is very scientific, it's well argued,

479
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: it's not explicitly racist. Like he's not dropping a bunch

480
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: of slurs. He's being like, look, you know, we have

481
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: all these job bones from people from this part of

482
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: the world, and they have this in whatever. That's how

483
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: Posner describes the study. Mollison himself was more critical of

484
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: of mangelis study, calling his work clumsy, although acknowledging it

485
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: fulfilled his its requirements. So, like his thesis advisor is like,

486
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: it's not great, but I guess you get a PhD. Anyway,

487
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: you didn't fail, so here you yeah, now, yeah, given

488
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: the fact that, like the guy who judged his work

489
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: as clumsy was like, the hey, it looks like a

490
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: jude to me. Dude, I don't know if you want

491
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: to like take that as an actual criticism that said,

492
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: so that we can actually criticize this. In two thousand

493
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: and eight, a group of modern geneticists analyzed mangels thesis,

494
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: and they pointed out that he makes a lot of

495
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: very basic statistical errors and failures of analysis, and most

496
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: kind of the biggest thing to critique about this is

497
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: that his obsession with the concept of race has no

498
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: grounding and objective science, so like there's there's not really

499
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: a center of hard science to what he's doing here,

500
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: mangel Is in person questioning went better. He was awarded

501
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: his Doctor of Philosophy degree summa cum laude after being

502
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: drilled by a board of judges or whatever in November

503
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty five. Now this is the point at

504
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: which things started to look up for the new doctor.

505
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: His health took a turn for the better as he

506
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: opted for the time honored strategy of just forcing himself

507
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: to sprint until he paid blood. Um, this actually worked somehow,

508
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like, yeah, no, menimal science is

509
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 1: weird that way, where it's just like, you know, yeah,

510
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: people would do the leeches and stuff, and then sometimes

511
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: they be cured and you'd be like, I guess, look,

512
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: I won't agree with Joseph Minglaw on anything, but this

513
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: sprint until you piss blood. That's my that's my medical

514
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: advice for all of our listeners. Yeah um yeah, yeah good,

515
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: that's my pilates. We actually sell a line of running

516
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: shorts that just have a red line right down the

517
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: middle so that no one will no one will notice

518
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: you just be like, no, these are just my running storts.

519
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: It's a racing stripe behind. Yeah good, stuff. So Joseph's

520
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: first paid medical job was at the University of Leipzig

521
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: Medical Clinic. He passed his state medical exam in the

522
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: summer of thirty six and he worked there for four

523
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: months as a junior doctor. This was a requirement for

524
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: his degree. You know, it's kind of the first step

525
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: of becoming an mds. You have to spend some time

526
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: at a hospital. He hates this. Working with live of

527
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: human patience is not his strong suit. He finds the

528
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: work kind of degrading. The only benefit, as far as

529
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: Joseph saw it, was that he met a young woman

530
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: named Irene Shoneban, the daughter of a professor, who he

531
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: falls in love with. Now Irene is nineteen and Joseph

532
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: is twenty five, and shortly after they fall for each other,

533
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: Joseph receives the first big break of his career, an

534
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: appointment to work at the new right third Reich Institute

535
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: for Heredity, Biology and Racial Purity in Frankfurt under the

536
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: prominent Nazi doctor Otmar von Verschure. Yeah yeah, it's a normal,

537
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: fun name to have certain Yeah yeah, not a sketchy

538
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: ass Nazi name. Now and Atmar, he had worked at

539
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: the Kaiser Weelham Institute. We talked about him last episode.

540
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: He's the guy who's really interested in twins. And I'm

541
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: going to quote now from the book Racial Hygiene Medicine

542
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: under the Nazis. In the Third Reich, twin studies were

543
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: lavishly funded as part of an effort to prove that

544
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: heredity was the key to many human talents and imperfections.

545
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: Twin studies purportedly demonstrated the heredibility of everything from epilepsy, criminality, memory,

546
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: and hernias to tuberculosis, cancer, schizophrenia, and divorce. In nineteen

547
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: thirty three, Ottmar Freiher von Verschure published a book purporting

548
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: to provide exact ratios of relative influence of heredity and

549
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: environment in a wide range of bodily traits. He derived

550
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: his data from the study of several thousand identical and

551
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: non identical twins. Verschure's studies were followed by hundreds of others.

552
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: By nineteen thirty six, Ottoreesh's Institute for the Study of

553
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: Racian Vulkul examine at twelve hundred and fifty pairs of twins,

554
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: recording forty two separate physical or physiognomic traits for each pair.

555
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: Eugene Fisher called twin studies the single most important research

556
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: tool in the field of racial hygiene. Verschure called twin

557
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: research the sovereign method for genetic research and humans. Rachel

558
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: hygienists were able to convince Nazi authorities that twin studies

559
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: warranted substantial government support. In nineteen thirty nine, Interior Minister

560
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: Wilhelm Frick ordered the registration of all twins, triplets or

561
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,239
Speaker 1: quadruplets born in the Reich for the express purpose of

562
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: research to isolect the effects of nature and nurture. I'm sorry,

563
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: this just all of this sounds incredibly horny to me.

564
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: Just the constant, like fucking focus on twins and identical twins.

565
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Just I don't know why. In my head this is

566
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: just very horny, pilled. Yeah, it's also weird that you're

567
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: like registering your twins, Like you give birth to twins

568
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: and the doctor comes out, you've got a license for

569
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: those twins. Yeah, I need to put them in this

570
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: database of twins. No reason, no reason, It's fine. Yeah. So,

571
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: while Mollison had viewed Mangola as a mediocre student, Von

572
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: Verschure treats him like a protege. Now Von Verschure is

573
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: also a devoted Nazi. He credited Hitler as being the

574
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: first statesman to recognize hereditary biology and race hygiene. Von

575
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Verschure didn't just consider himself in his institute to be

576
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: organs of science. Though they were part of the National

577
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: defense apparatus, He defined their role as caring for German

578
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: genes to provide such a strong basis that it will

579
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: withstand any attacks from outside. Now that Mangola was working

580
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: at the heart of Nazi race science, joining the party

581
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: had become compulsory. He saw it as a moral necessity.

582
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: The problem was that after nineteen thirty three, the Nazis

583
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: had closed party membership, worried their assent to power would

584
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: draw on a bunch of Johnny come Lately fascists who

585
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: wanted social benefits of being in the party but weren't committed.

586
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: Now there were ways around the block, and Mangoli's prior

587
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: membership in the Staalhelm ensured him special consideration. He was

588
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: approved in nineteen thirty eight and became party member number

589
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: five five seven four nine seven four. So that's good,

590
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: that's not a bad number. Yeah, that's you know, yea

591
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: not an early adopter, but you know, he got there.

592
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: He got there. So his first duty for the fascist

593
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: state was helping the new judicial system determine who was

594
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: and who was not a Jew cohabitating with an area

595
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: and spouse. It's illegal to be in an inner, you know,

596
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: race marriage, as the Nazis considerate. So you have a

597
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: bunch of cases where people will say like, I'm not

598
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: Jewish or whatever. Um, so it's cool for me to

599
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: stay married, and you have to determine whether or not

600
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: they meet the legal definition of a Jew under the

601
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Nuremberg race laws. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah. So they're

602
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: known as me having dinner with my Jewish side of

603
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: the family and I'm just being like, well, you're not

604
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: really Jewish shure. Yeah. So it's a long line, yeah,

605
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: long line of that. So in the Nazi version of this,

606
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: you can't just like, it's not as clear as just

607
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: like looking at the law. To determine whether or not

608
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: someone counts as Jewish in this, you have to have

609
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: like was probably like, come on, I just looked at him.

610
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: I can tell no, I mean that is actually me, Matt,

611
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: you joke. That is actually the standard is having a

612
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: doc be like yeah, it looks like a Jew to

613
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: may So most of the it's one of those things

614
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: where like this guy von Brochure. One of the things

615
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: he does is he's helping the courts determine who isn't

616
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: isn't Jewish. He has a bunch of his assistants helping.

617
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: Most of them are just like Mollissa, and they're like, yeah,

618
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: it looks like a Jew to may or Nah, that

619
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: guy doesn't. In the jew Mangola is develops a reputation

620
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: for being obsessive about this where he's doing all the genealogy.

621
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: He's like spending hours looking at pictures of their jaws

622
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: from different angles. And it's actually as a result of

623
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: this his judgments are often beneficial to the person being tried. Overall,

624
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: he found that they were not a full Jew two

625
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: thirds of the time. This is not due to a

626
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: lack of racism, but more to the fact that he

627
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: was weirdly obsessed with jaws. There was one odd case

628
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: in July of nineteen thirty seven that biographers were all

629
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: will often bring up, when Mangola was asked to analyze

630
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: a man with an Aryan mother and a legally Jewish

631
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: father who claimed that his real dad had in an

632
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: Aryan and had had an affair with his mother. So

633
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: this guy, on paper his dad is Jewish, but he's like, no,

634
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: it's not my real dad. My mom was sleeping around,

635
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: so it's cool for me to be married. So this

636
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: is kind of a thorny case. And Mangola decided that

637
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: the man was a full Jew, but the court disagreed

638
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: because they were like, well, based on just like the

639
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: report you wrote, you say, there's actually a pretty good

640
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: chance that this guy's claims you're true, and if that's

641
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: the case, we're going to give him the benefit of

642
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: the doubt, which points to kind of the fact that

643
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: these Nazi race courts are a lot more inconsistent and

644
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: messy than you might think, right, because this hierarchy they're

645
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: trying to develop is not based on rigorous silence, right,

646
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: it's all weirdos speculating about jaws and ears and shit.

647
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote though from Mangola, people doing the look

648
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: at him test and then yeah, look at him arguing

649
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: amongst each other. That's gonna be a fucking annoying, boring

650
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: life to just be the person who's just like trying

651
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: to you know, like always over the dinner table. You're

652
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: just arguing with people over pictures of various possible Jews. No,

653
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: he has a Bohemian elope, Yeah, a Roman nose, God damage,

654
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: he's a Laplander. Can't you tell a good old timey racism?

655
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: So he did. Yeah, I'm gonna quote now from Mangola

656
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: unmasking the Angel of Death. Mangola's examination included, where possible,

657
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: a comparison of twelve different areas, including blood type, in factors,

658
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: eyes and eyebrows, as well as finger and footprints. He

659
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: determined that there was nothing to rule out the paternity

660
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: of Alexander's legal father, that some areas of similarity made

661
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: the paternity probable, and that there was no pronounced similarity

662
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: between the photograph of the alleged biological father and the son.

663
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a peculiar situation to try and

664
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: analyze the decisions of a Nazi court wherein both sides

665
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: are Nazis, but one side saying, nah, this guy's not

666
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: a Jew, he could stay married, and Mangola saying, oh,

667
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: he's definitely a Jew. He should, you know, be arrested.

668
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what father this guy is,

669
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: just like everyone agrees, I'm a cuck. At least that's fun.

670
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: So this guy, Vershure. When the court rules against Mangela,

671
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Vershure is angry, saying that their decision undermined the Nuremberg

672
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: Laws by turning a Jew into a half Jew. David

673
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: Marwell continues. Doctor Walter Gross of the Racial Policy Office

674
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: of the Nazi Party responded to Vershure by criticizing Mangola

675
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: for the lack of clear and precise information and his

676
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: racial determination, and for his fickle testimony at trial. He concluded,

677
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: I do not think that the court would have ignored

678
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: a totally clear position of the assistant Mangola. Mangela must

679
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: have learned from his mistake. Wiss noted, since she was

680
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: unable to find any other instances where the court questioned

681
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: a racial certificate that he issued. So you know he

682
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: learns from this. That's good, little hero's journey there for

683
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: our race scientist friend, Joseph Mangla. That's good. That's good.

684
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: An't that good? Yeah? That's nice? You know what else

685
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: is nice? Matt? What what's nice? Great? Mmmm? Products and services?

686
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: That's right? You know. While Nazi race science was often

687
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: arbitrary and a scientific the science that our advertisers used

688
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: to target you with. The perfect ad is flawless. So

689
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: don't question it, don't ask anything, don't think. Just give them,

690
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: give them your money. You know. Uh, we're all back,

691
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: We're all feeling good. So the inconsistency and arbitrariness of

692
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: most Nazi racial designations came with some minor consequences from

693
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: Mangela himself. As he'd risen to work at von Verschuer's side,

694
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: he'd made the decision to join the SS while he should.

695
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: Stoffle had started as a simple bodyguard unit for Hitler

696
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: back in the old street fighting days under Heinrich Himler's leadership,

697
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: at it to grow into a state within a state

698
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: dedicated to cultivating and breeding a Nazi racial elite. As such,

699
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: it was a natural place for an ambitious young race

700
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: scientist like Mingle It to join. Doctors actually joined the

701
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: SS in greater numbers than members of any other vocation.

702
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: Did you know that? I did not know that, But

703
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense and makes me sad

704
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: and angry. Do you want to know how I hate doctors?

705
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: Do you want to guess how much more likely doctors

706
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: were to be in the SS than normal employed German males.

707
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: I couldn't possibly know the answer to that. It is

708
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: seven times seven times likelier than any Yeah. So an

709
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: underdiscuss story from Nazi Germany is that not only did

710
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 1: doctors love the SS, Germany has at the time the

711
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: Nazis come to power the most advanced and progressive medical

712
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: system in the world. Fully half of all doctors in

713
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: Germany joined the Nazi Party. Physicians joined the Nazi Party

714
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: at a rate higher than members of any other profession.

715
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: By comparison, only about twenty percent German teachers joined the party. Um,

716
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: doctors in Germany cannot get enough of the Nazis. Uh.

717
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: You know what? Hitler actually was kind of the original

718
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: podcaster or matt the Adolf Hitler experience talking about mushrooms

719
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: are good. He was the first politician in at least

720
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: in Europe to really make great use of the radio

721
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: and of microphones. Can you pull up that clip? Yeah,

722
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: Hitler and his buddy that the fucking Brazilian jiu jitsu

723
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: expert talking about vaccines. Good stuff. So Michael CHIPS's Everybody

724
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: God podcast, Hitler actually makes a ton of sense sense. Yeah, No,

725
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: that that is absolutely what he would have been doing today. Um,

726
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: that's not even a question in my mind. He's brought

727
00:40:54,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: you by me. Undy's well the only like a specific

728
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: kind for a best erries berries. Get yourself a bouquet

729
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: of white chocolate berries. They are very happy today to

730
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: be hosting some ads from ze Washington State Hya Patrol.

731
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 1: Not quite the organization I've handsome to be yet, but soon,

732
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: very soon. So one of the few things that separated

733
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: Mangala from his fellow as sas men was that, so

734
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: in the SS, when you join, you have to have

735
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: your blood group tattooed on your arm. Right, Sorry, is

736
00:41:39,719 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: this American Reich? Look yeah, my whole face is purple. Yeah. Look,

737
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I love Dan Carlin, but I'm fighting to stop myself

738
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: from doing a meme worth the two hands meeting in

739
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: the middle, and it's like Hitler and Dan Carmen sixteen

740
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: hour podcasts on World War One. Very different sixteen hour

741
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: podcast let's be clear, extremely different, extremely different. You're not

742
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: at all coming from the same place, but no, no,

743
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: but similar in length probably, Yeah. Yeah. So one of

744
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: the few things that's again, so in the SS, you

745
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: got to get this blood group tattoo on your arm.

746
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's actually after the war. One of the

747
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: things that makes it easy to tell who's been in

748
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: the SS because a lot of them like put on

749
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: normal army uniforms to try to escape. Mangela does not

750
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 1: get this tattoo. Um, and it's his ex wife. Would

751
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: leader say it's because he had a habit, his like

752
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: hobby was staring at his shirtless body in the mirror,

753
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: Like after he gets healthy and starts to bulk up,

754
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: he just like looking at himself naked and he can't

755
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: stand the thought of marring his skin with a tattoo.

756
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: That is absolutely the most like just default Nazi setting

757
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: is just looking in the mirror and going on, I'm

758
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: so fucking strong. It's just you know, see Andrew Tate, Yeah, exactly,

759
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: very very taty. So joining Himmler's racial elite came with

760
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: extra hoops to jump through if you wanted to do

761
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: something like getting married. For one thing, his fiance Irene

762
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: had to pass a series of tests to become the

763
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: wife of an SS man. Now I know what you're

764
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: all wondering, Could I be an SS wife? You know, ladies,

765
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: ladies at home, if you want to know, do you

766
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: have what it takes to marry an SS man. That's

767
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now. So you show on

768
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: Bravo the Real Housewives of the Yeah oh boy, that

769
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 1: is a fucking so. The first thing she hasked to

770
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: do she had to get two recommendations from men who

771
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 1: knew her, and both of those men had to fill

772
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: out questionnaires to prove that she had what it took

773
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: to be an SS wife. She was rated by them

774
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: as being very reliable, very fond of children, com radley,

775
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: and not domineering and efficient. Irene also had to undergo

776
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: a body type analysis. I'm gonna yeah, boy OUTI here's

777
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: ears Marwell again. One section of the form called for

778
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: an inventory of ten physical characteristics with a list of

779
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: associated values in descending order of desirability. For instance, for

780
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: body type, the physician could choose muscular, athletic, plump, slim,

781
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: or puny, with the first clearly being the most positive.

782
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: For eye color, the following choices were available blue, gray, greenish,

783
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: light brown, and dark brown. These physical attributes, thought to

784
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: be expressions of the racial mixture that the person represented,

785
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: were observed and noted. In Irene's case, doctor Shorzweller awarded

786
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: her nine out of ten of the attributes with the

787
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: highest value, and only one hair form as the second

788
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: highest sleek, which was one step stepped down from straight,

789
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: but better than wavy, curly or crinkly. I love that.

790
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: It's like there's you're almost perfect. There's a little jew

791
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: in your hair. Yeah, I'm gonna have to dark you

792
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: a little bit for the jew and that hairs. Yeah,

793
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: but don't we have a straight iron cross that we

794
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: will use to straighten that little jew out. Let's get

795
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: the kinks out, so to speak. So the combination of

796
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: these features led Swartzweller to conclude that Irene was primarily

797
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: of the Nordic race, with some Dinaric influences. She was

798
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: found to be an excellent health and perhaps of key significance,

799
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: likely to be able to bear children. Noting her wide pelvis,

800
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: you have white pelvis. You have a very nice feat.

801
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: They relate little Binaric. But you know that's that's a

802
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: race for Nazis. No, don't worry about that, as we

803
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: know about that. Honestly, Irene, I have a searching for

804
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: a term, but then I pulled up my Nazi thesaurus,

805
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: and so of categorizations we've done here. Wow, we've want words.

806
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: So even with even all of this was not enough

807
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: for the SS. Irene also needed to prove that she

808
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: was racially pure, free of any Jewish influence for the

809
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: sake of SS paperwork. This meant providing information about her

810
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: family line that dated back to the Peace piece of

811
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: Westphalia in sixteen forty eight. This was the end of

812
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: the Thirty Years War, which killed millions of German people

813
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: and set in motion kind of want like one of

814
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: the more direct things that set in motion the series

815
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: of events that leads to the creation of the German States.

816
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: So that's why they pick it. The problem for Irene

817
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: came with the fact that in eighteen eighty six, her

818
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: grandfather had been born out of wedlock and his father

819
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: his father could not be verified. Now there was no

820
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: evidence of direct taint, so Irene was approved to Mary Mangola,

821
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: but because her ancestry could not be sufficiently confirmed, she

822
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: and Joseph were unable to add their names to the

823
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: Sippin book. Dare ss Honestly, that's unfair. I know it's fucked.

824
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: I gonna go out and say big yikes to that. Yeah,

825
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: so a Sippin' book if you guys aren't, aren't like

826
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: me and Matt because we're big sippin book guys. Yeah,

827
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: it's a book, a genealogical clan book that lists your ancestry.

828
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: Every SS member was supposed to carry one, but there's

829
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: a grand Sippin' book for the entire organization that lists

830
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: all of the family lines. Because Himler was kind of

831
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: planning on breeding a new nightly nobility more or less. Um. Yeah,

832
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: So this is like the highest honor in the SS,

833
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: and Mengola just doesn't quite meet the bar um, which

834
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: is sad, sad, honestly, it's just it's one of the bigger,

835
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: bigger tragedies of the era. Oh for sure. Absolutely. So

836
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: the good news is that Mangola had little time to

837
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: dwell on this because the nineteen thirties were coming to

838
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: an end. In events in the whider world. We're about

839
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: to turn him from a simple, bigoted piece of shit

840
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: into one of the greatest mass killers in medical history.

841
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, so you're telling me this podcast is

842
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: gonna get worse. Oh yeah, Oh, it's about to get

843
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: a lot worse. So July of Nining is people to die.

844
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know, no more Jarjar. I just I

845
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: know that the jar jar is coming to an end. Sure,

846
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Wow, there's gotta be like us.

847
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably pornographic, but there's gotta be jar

848
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: jar ss like art out there, dev and art account

849
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, I don't know why people are man

850
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: at me. Yeah. And it's both horny but also shows

851
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: like an unsettling degree of understanding of like minutia of

852
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: SS daily life. They've got their little sipping books on

853
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: jar Jar's got his blood group tattooed on a fucking bicep.

854
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 1: So In July of nineteen thirty eight, Frankfurt University awards

855
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: mangle A a full medical degree. He was now a

856
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: licensed MD as well as a PhD. He had a

857
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: promising career ahead of him in the field of being

858
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: a racist with a lab coat, but his ambition would

859
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 1: not let him simply continue to work as a research

860
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: scientist while his nation went to war. So he decided

861
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: to join the Waffen or Weapons SS. Now this is

862
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: the because the SS is a bunch of things, right,

863
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: But the Waffen SS is like the SS that also

864
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: fights alongside the Wehrmacht. Right there, they're a military organization.

865
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: This would become one of the war crimest units of

866
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: the war crimest army ever to war crime, and Mengelo

867
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: was dedicated to being a part of it. At the

868
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: end of nineteen thirty eight, he did three months of

869
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: basic training with the Wehrmacht to prepare himself for the

870
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: riggers ahead. He's spent about a year or so serving

871
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: as basically a National guardsman. And while he's kind of

872
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: doing this, he's continuing to work with Van Verschure on

873
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: publishing studies about ear lobe differences between the races and

874
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: the like. Just before the invasion of Poland, he wrote

875
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: a review for a book on detecting congenital heart defects.

876
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: In this review he lamented quote unfortunately the author did

877
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: not use subjects where the diagnosis could be verified by

878
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: an autopsy. He's been a lot of time talking about

879
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: how unfortunate is there weren't enough corpses to study to

880
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: like fully prove this guy's claims about congenital heart defects

881
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: and alas, he was about to have all of the

882
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: autopsy subjects he could ever want, but that it's going

883
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: to be. In Part three, Oh Boy, Part three. Yeah,

884
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: then just two more after this. Yeah, we're good. Oh

885
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a breezy five hours. Yeah, you

886
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: know this is We're not that different from Dan Carlin podcast.

887
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: Here are we? We're getting increasingly similar. Um hey, you

888
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna be honest, Hitler probably would have

889
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: done a behind the bastard style podcast with a very

890
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: different definition of bastards. Yeah. Well yeah, Kissinger still would

891
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,479
Speaker 1: have been there, but for different reasons. They'll come back

892
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: to my six pots series on this jew who was

893
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: winning the train with me and took a chair that

894
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to sit in. This next series is all

895
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: about different arts teachers who said I was made. Yeah,

896
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: it turns out they're made. For the next four weeks,

897
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: me and my guest Joe Rogan are going to talk

898
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: about Zivian Academy of Fine Arts. Chapter three. This next

899
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: one is a short story from New Yorker. Now, look,

900
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: it's a little horny, so Hitler. It's about and other

901
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: fetish women being stuck in zidryam. Oh boy, Matt what

902
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: Matt Matt Matt Man, Matt Matt What was the what

903
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: was the what was the first baffling Internet fetish pornography.

904
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: You ever learned about quicksand porn? Oh yeah, that's a

905
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: good one. Yeah yeah. I discovered that accidentally on YouTube.

906
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how how I got there, but it

907
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: was just a video of a lady slowly sinking. Hell yeah.

908
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is so weird. And then

909
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: after a while I was like, oh no, I'm horny

910
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: and uh so you know I'm in therapy. Now that's good.

911
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: That's good for me. About the quick stamp art is

912
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: there's not you know, there doesn't even need to be titties.

913
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: It's just the sinking. Yeah, yeah it is. It is

914
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: something else, um there is For me, it was there's

915
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: actually a similarity here. It was Roy Orbison clean rap

916
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: fetish point. It was like fetish stories about Roy Orbison

917
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: to your careers, because I think you can still find

918
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: the Roy Orbison clean rap fetish pornography online people, It's

919
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: not it's not Nazi sofie soly Roy Orberson. I never

920
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: got a good answer on that one. Can't you just

921
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: be cling wrapped and be any uh yeah yeah, don't

922
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: yuck their yum Matt, you know that's I would never

923
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: yuck a yum. Look, some people you know, sometimes you

924
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: feel like masturbating too orbits and wrapped in claim rap,

925
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. I have so many plugibles. Check

926
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: out this American right coming to you. Listen to my

927
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: TV rewatch podcast, pot yourself a gun. We did The

928
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: Sopranos and now we are just ending season two of

929
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,959
Speaker 1: The Wire. Uh and it is a lot of fun,

930
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: a lot great guests and uh, you know, even if

931
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: you haven't seen the show, it's fun. But mostly give

932
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: us five stars in review and say something about jar

933
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: Jar the Wire. Hitler would not have liked it. No,

934
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: you would not have m h ah. Behind the Bastards

935
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more from

936
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

937
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

938
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.