WEBVTT - I Don't Like Biden. 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.880 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKF Daily with Meet 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.360 your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.639 to say that this has been a challenging week would 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:27.600 be an understatement. I think that everything is signaling to 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.880 the fact that Donald Trump is probably more likely than 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:37.239 not to be the forty seventh president of the United States. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:43.200 That there are signs, whether they're coming through our judiciary 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.879 with alien cannon deciding aph you know what, we're not 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.360 going to actually do this court case with the documents. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.160 You know, we have so many pre trial things to do, bullshit, bullshit, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.160 bullshit that the Supreme Court is signaling that, you know, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.160 maybe a president should have immunity because you know, how 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.680 else did the other forty four presidents before this criminal 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:10.000 last one forty five? How did they all manage? So 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.880 I think that what we are seeing, and the reason 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.760 why I get so just beside myself for lack of 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:23.319 a better word, is because every sign points to the 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.760 end of America as we know it. Every sign points 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.520 to the end of our democracy as we know it. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:34.880 We have a genocide that is raging on seven months 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:40.959 plus close to forty thousand people dead, including fifteen thousand 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:47.560 and counting children, Biden has decided to side with a homicidal, 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.400 homicidal maniac. Like I say, homicidal over and over again, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.440 just to you know, run the point home. They have 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.800 no desire in Israel, the government to have a two 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.800 state solution to stop this war, to come to any negotiation, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.880 because you can't negotiate with terrorists, and what they want 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.720 is to wipe out the Palestinian people. And Joe Biden 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:20.400 is right on their side. And so, like I have 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.960 been saying all week long, which is that we are 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:30.360 faced with is Sophie's choice, right, this idea that whatever 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.639 the choice that we make, it's going to be painful. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.000 And I think that that's where I want to really 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:42.400 focus this morning on, which is that I think that 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.160 we have been set up to believe that we only 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:52.200 get to make good choices, that we only get to 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:57.040 do the things that make us feel good. And what 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.240 I am realizing and what I am grappling with myself, 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:06.079 is that that's not the case. Right this time around. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.760 We don't get to feel good like we did in 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.840 two thousand and eight, in twenty twelve, right the days 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:18.799 of feeling good and excited about who we're electing, I 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:23.360 think are gone. I think that for the next several cycles, 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.200 if we're able to make it out of this one 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.880 and Donald Trump manages somehow not to become president, giving 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.960 all of the cards that are stacked against Biden, all 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:37.720 of the cards that he has fucking stacked against himself, 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:44.320 if we're able to make it through this cycle, I 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.240 think that the next several are going to be a 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:53.000 lot like this last one, meaning that we're not going 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.520 to love the candidates. But what we need to make 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.800 sure and I think that the most important thing to 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.560 understand is whether or not they respect the Constitution of 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.360 the United States, whether or not they are going to 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:11.280 uphold democracy, and where they stand on issues of the 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:16.160 social safety net and entitlements, where they stand on the environment, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:23.880 on education, on reproductive rights and bodily autonomy, on LGBTQ equality, 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.800 on racial justice, and really drill those things down. But 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.120 are we going to fall in love? No, we're not. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.839 And I think that where I am with the decision 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.560 at hand in the next couple of months is that 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.960 I don't like Biden. I don't I think that I 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:51.080 have completely soured on him given his staunch support for 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:57.039 Israel and the fact that they are going to erase 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:02.320 Palestinian people their homeland from the map, and America is 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.039 going to be complicit in that. And five and ten 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.839 years from now, when we look back at what was caused, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.599 I think that Biden's entire legacy, if in fact we 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:19.840 have history at that time, will be tarnished beyond measure. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:27.680 I think that his decision to put Israel above everything 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:33.200 else has made me really understand the binds and the 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.520 power of white supremacy, and that, you know, you can 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.800 do a little bit of good, but that doesn't erase 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.520 a whole lot of bad. So you can, you know, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:48.320 decide to reschedule marijuana, you can decide to you know, 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.159 reduce student loan debt. You can decide to work on 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.280 climate change and infrastructure issues. But if at the end 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.560 of the day, your democracy and your understanding of quality 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.279 and justice stops at the borders of the United States, 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.039 then I don't want to fuck with you. Like That's 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.200 that's where I am right knowing that I am going 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.520 to vote for Joe Biden because a vote for Donald 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.760 Trump would be a vote to put myself in a camp, 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.760 would be a vote for my own extermination and those 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.400 that I love in the communities that I care about, 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.839 am the part of and have been fighting for my 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.000 entire professional career. But am I happy about that decision. 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.400 Am I going to gleefily, wear a T shirt, put 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.400 up a sign and put my fist in the air 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.800 for Joe Biden? Absolutely fucking not. I will do what 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:38.839 needs to be done, and I hope that a lot 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.920 of people out there will do the same, will hold 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.599 their nose, will, you know, wash it down with some 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.839 listerine afterwards, and we can deal with and fight and push, 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:55.719 you know, following that election. But right now, I'm not 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.919 going to be excited about it, and no one's gonna 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.960 make me feel excited about it. But I'm gonna do 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.600 what needs to be done. And I think that that's 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.120 where all of us need to get to. That sometimes 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.159 we're not making choices that we feel great about, that 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.160 we're jumping up and down about, that we're writing home about. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.960 Sometimes the choices that we make are just tough and 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.040 they suck. And that is I guess what it means 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.040 to adult in twenty twenty four or in a climate 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.960 that doesn't produce a bevy of politicians offer you to 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:32.600 choose from, and the choices are really slim. Coming up next, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.360 my conversation with our friend, our in house doctor, doctor 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.360 Jonathan Metzel. We're talking about an article that he has 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:44.280 out now about what happens to Israel if they adopt 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.560 the gun laws and policies that we have in this country. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.080 It's a difficult conversation because we're in a difficult space 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.280 this week, folks, but you know we are going to 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.160 continue to push through because that's what we do. We 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.800 take breaks so that we don't have breakdowns. We turn 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.000 off the news, we turn into ourselves and into those 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.720 that we care about, and we just keep on keeping on. 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.240 Some weeks are better than others. This week just ain't 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:19.640 it for me? Coming up next, our friend Jonathan Metzell. Folks, 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.559 you know that whenever we have the chance to speak 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.440 with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, we are 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.679 always grateful. And today we are digging into an article 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:34.280 that Jonathan did in Zokolo Public Square, an essay entitled 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:39.360 what could American style gun culture do to Israel? Jonathan 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:45.400 give us the high level points of how Israel's gun 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.360 control has been different very different from the United States, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.880 and why there is a shift that has happened. 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.120 Well, let me first acknowledge that we're recording this on 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.640 a really hard day. You know, there's there's a lot 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.480 of despair in the area right now. I've actually been 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.280 on the phone pretty much all night with people who 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.080 saw a glimmer of hope, and now it feels like 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.360 we're deep in this moment, even worse than ever for 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.120 a lot of people who were there. And so before 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:19.600 before I say that, and I'm going to be answer 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.960 that question, I just want to say, you know, I've 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.880 always thought this, but I hope, I hope we've I hope, 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.679 God damn it, we've hit the bottom right now, and 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.240 that the next time we talk, by the next next week, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:38.520 this moment of what I feel like is strategic disaster, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:45.959 personally and moral disaster. It has turned into a change 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.800 of direction. So let me just first say that and 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.400 then I'll talk about the article. But we're we're recording 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.640 this on a really, really hard moment, and having been 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.960 on the phone with a lot of people, I know 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:02.080 that a lot of people to share that sentiment. And 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.679 so now for me, I've been I've been collaborating with 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.120 public health colleagues. As you know, for well over a 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.400 decade now, I've worked with physicians for human rights Israel Palestine. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.080 For I mean we were looking back there day like 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.880 fifteen years now or something like that, and so done 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:25.720 a lot of work on violence reduction, mostly in southern 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:30.360 Israel and the West Bank. And it was before this 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.559 current intent now who government, a kind of vibrant organization 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:40.760 that combined Israeli and Israeli Palestinian doctors, social workers, nurses, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:46.240 other healthcare providers to try to limit gun reform. And 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:52.080 the irony for me was before this current government, Israel 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.000 was a model of you know, Americans like me went 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.520 to Israel. We would have conferences there to see like 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.640 why is there so little gun death civilian gun death 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.600 in a way, and so there's no Second Amendment in Israel. 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:12.400 There there were really really tight laws, assault weapons bans, 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.120 all these kinds of things. And so Israeli public health 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.520 was a model for gun reform before this government. And 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.319 then this right wing government took over and immediately they 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.760 started pulling out the NRA playbook. They started giving out guns, 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.800 mostly to settlers in the West Bank, but also in 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.840 urban areas to form these crazy police squads. So they 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.520 adopted the NRA playbook, and the essay was basically, what 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.480 happens to the moral soul of a country when you 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.880 start arming mostly right wing people? And what we see 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.600 kind of what I argue in the piece is that 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.600 it's actually harder to make peace when you haven't armed 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.320 a bunch of right wing zealots on your side. And 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.280 so part of what we're seeing globally as a reflection 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.600 of the internal politics of Israel. So it was definitely 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.480 not an easy piece to write. I've spent the past 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.560 six months interviewing tons and tons and tons of people 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.760 on all sides of this, but I do think that 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.200 there is an issue which doesn't seem urgent today, but 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.280 it is a bigger issue that I think will need 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.120 to be addressed about the internal politics of Israel and 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:31.240 how the nintenda who is marginalized public health and the 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.720 left in ways that I think are really disastrous. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.560 Also, so one of the things that you say that 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.160 you write in here, and I want to read a 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.080 piece of it for the listeners, is that effective gun 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:49.920 policy reinforce social cohesion. While Americans carry guns based on 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:54.640 individualized notions of self protection. Israeli's considered gun ownership a 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:59.120 shared responsibility. Can you speak to that a bit about 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.320 the difference in the individualization that we have here of 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.800 let's say, the castle doctrine and stand your ground and 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:12.640 this individualized idea of protecting myself in my property versus 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.400 what was a shared responsibility in Israel. 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.960 So I actually the piece ends in the castle doctrine. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.760 For that exact reason, the castle doctrine made absolutely no 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.480 sense in the Middle East context because nobody had guns. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.200 The narrative of why people had guns was to protect 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:35.240 their nation. They got their guns because of military training, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.280 but there was no such thing as like individual civilians 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.240 walking around carrying guns because they might get robbed or 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.559 something like that. That was that's not part of the ethos, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.360 and so gun training for people was part of this 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.520 exercise of like, we're defending our country. So it was 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.840 a very plural narrative. But in terms of the internal 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.400 politics of Israel, the idea was basically, we're all looking 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.480 out for each other, and we don't need guns because 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:08.520 we have institutions, the police and other things that protect us, 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.200 and so there's no need for guns in a civilian 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.640 context and there were no laws that let people have 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.840 guns in civilian contexts for the most part. Now, as 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.240 I write in the piece, that's not totally true. There 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:27.800 were gun markets in Israeli Palestinian towns, and there were 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.400 a lot of guns that were stolen from the military 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.440 and sold there and things like that, but for the 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.440 most part, guns were seeing. The narrative was a plural narrative. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.760 It wasn't an individual narrative. There's no individual right to 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.440 bear arms or anything like that. They didn't have that, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.000 and it led to this sense. I mean, the two 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.800 most powerful stories for me and why I wrote the piece. 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.040 The first was, I think it was like twenty fifteen. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.000 I was speaking at a conference there and the NRA 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.600 had sent a delegation of NRA people come over and 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.960 try to spur because they thought Israel was a great 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.760 gun market, and so they sent over all these NRAA 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.960 people donors, and they toured around and they started touting 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.200 American style gun laws. You know, carry a gun, you 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.680 don't know, castle doctor, and all this stuff, and they 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.960 were almost effectively kind of laughed out of town. This 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.840 conference I was at had a lot of the leading 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.160 public health and doctors, and they were like, man, you 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.840 Americans are crazy, like we don't need guns in civilian 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.200 life at all. And so the NA came over totally 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.240 not understanding the Israeli context and it was so foreign, like, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.720 of course, we're we don't need this, you guys are 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:41.120 They called it American michu gos, like American craziness. And 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:46.880 another instance was there was the Parkland mass shooting here 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.480 and Mike Huckabe just happened to be in Israel at 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.960 the time, visiting, and he tweeted when he was there, 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.960 I'm in Israel and there's no mass shootings here because 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:03.400 everybody has a gun, and people there's a hyperlink in 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.000 my piece one of the first two paragraphs. People pounced 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.080 on him and they were like, dude, this isn't the 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.720 US at all. We don't have your crazy second Amendment. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.080 We don't have mass shootings here because we have responsible 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.440 gun laws. And so every time somebody would try to 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.320 make this argument that we're the US, that is, you know, 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:28.360 like the US the whole place would and I invite 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.520 people to like click on that link because it's really interesting, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.160 the response is that was like, we don't have your 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:38.520 insanity here, and then the Nitaniaho government got elected and 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.080 then they started handing out guns and overturning all the 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.960 gun laws and stuff like that. And so part of 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.960 the argument for me, which is tied to my work 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.640 in my book, also is that got loose gun laws 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.800 are a way to destabilize functioning democracies. The minute nitania 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.800 Who started arming his supporters, there was a threat to 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.040 liberals who then thought maybe we need guns also, And 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.680 so you end up dividing a country and rupturing these 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.000 these national narratives. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.439 And I think the other the other piece of this 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.840 that is you know that that can't be overlooked is 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.080 you know, I'm in the midst. I was telling Andrew, 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.240 my producer, that I'm behind the times because I am 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.359 in the midst of reading the Shock Doctrine right now 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.560 by Naomi Klein and understanding that, you know, when you 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:34.399 have moments of catastrophe, whether it be man made or 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.560 natural catastrophe or exacerbated natural catastrophe, which is what is 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:44.040 happening with climate change, you have very eager politicians that 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.480 want to use those moments in order to push through 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.760 an agenda. And similarly, with nine to eleven in the 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:58.560 United States, and how we ended up ushering in the 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.240 Patriot Act, which gave away our freedom and allowed for 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:09.480 the United States to overtly begin to surveil American people 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.560 for our own safety. Net Nyahu has used October seventh, 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:18.639 this devastating day in Israeli history, to push through gun laws. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.840 Can you speak to that? And Ben Gavir and like 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.879 this whole idea of kind of using this horrible moment, 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.879 using the fear that then was brought up in this 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.800 horrible moment, to then push through a very radicalized gun agenda. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.679 I mean, it's not just a gun agenda, it's the 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.640 gun agenda is a is a part of a much 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:49.240 bigger agenda. I just would say, I mean, if people 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.199 want to read one Israeli source on this, and a 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.399 lot of people don't, I get that. But Aretz is 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.800 a pretty good a pretty good reflection of the views 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.680 of a lot of people on the Israeli left who 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:09.240 since this election really have been constantly under attack, constantly protesting. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.639 I mean, they've got a year head start on everybody 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.840 in terms of millions of people being out in the street. 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:20.480 Before October they were protesting the judicial reform. The quote 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.640 unquote reform, the takeover of the judiciary that the minute 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:30.400 Nittanyahu basically was out of office, disgraced, facing possible and 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.800 jail time for crimes. And then he pulled together a 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.360 coalition of people who themselves would never have gotten into 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.919 the coalition, like totally radical people who by themselves were 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:45.879 not going to be part of any other coalition, but 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.800 they had a lot to gain by being He gave 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.320 basically people power who were totally totally radical on the right, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.080 and part of the deal was that then when they 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.200 got in power, they could do all this radical stuff 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.080 to basically do the Israeli version of own the Libs. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.199 And so they started taking over the judiciary, limiting the 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.800 power of the Supreme Court, which had been a moderating 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.080 force in Israel against a lot of the extremism, doing 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.560 a lot of just every day stuff, like all these 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.480 crazy religious laws that nobody really thought would ever happen. 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.919 You know, you can't have your place open on Saturday, 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.399 and girls can't stand with boys in public, like all 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.520 this stuff that were totally totally the radical fringe. But 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:35.640 because he had mobilized this coalition that became the power structure, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.600 and part of The issue that I think is important 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.200 to recognize is that it's not like there's a moral 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.080 voice of like I'm not going to stand for this, 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.959 because everybody in that coalition the minute the minute that 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.240 coalition falls, they are not only not in power, they're 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.359 probably criminally liable for some of the things that are 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.200 happening now and so in a way, so in a way, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.320 the government potentially is not going to fall by itself. 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.719 It's very hard to fracture this coalition because it's like 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.040 a confederation of I was calling it before it could 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.440 federation of dunsas, but I would use a different word 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.240 right now. And so the issue is this coalition is 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.480 like all these people who are clinging to power, and 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.280 the minute that topples, they are all in big trouble. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.040 So it's funny because like I used to admire a 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.679 coalition system, it's not our two party system. But you 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:33.040 can see how in the age of fascism that system 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.720 can be hijacked. Also, that's what I think what we're 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.199 seeing in Israel, that in a way that system can 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.760 be hijacked against the will of the people also, and 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:47.080 so I know there's tons of just profound rage and rightfully, 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.960 so right now. But I just want to highlight that 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.600 a lot of the people across Israel are also in 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.520 the streets protesting because they've been trying to top all 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:01.120 this government before October, and then October this moment of 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.240 like I mean, that's kind of what I show in 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:09.320 the piece, is that the power of emergency authority is 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:13.760 really powerful and it gives the right to circumvent all 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.960 of these civil liberties and so not ironically, it's not 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.879 just about guns. People that these protests are being surveiled. 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:25.280 There's all this government surveillance. They're being targeted. I have 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:26.719 a lot of links in the piece to a lot 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.960 of sources that talk about that as well, and so 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.000 in a way, I wrote this piece in part in 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.480 part to give rise to the Israeli protest movement that 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:40.040 has been there before, but also kind of as a 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.480 warning because the reflection of what people in the Middle 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.320 East have faced and what we could potentially be facing. 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:54.000 It's just it's a playbook that is one that is 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.480 I find really terrifying, which is that a lot of 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:02.240 the institutions and structures, like Israel's gun laws, as an example, 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.800 that we've assumed our eternal can be hacked by this playbook. 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:14.560 You know, I know that we only have a couple 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:16.840 of minutes left, but I do want to ask you 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.679 this last question, which is that you look at Israeli government, 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:22.960 you look at coalition government, you look like a multi 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.520 party system. You look at our two party system, and 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:27.760 it seems to me, Jonathan, that it doesn't matter what 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:31.600 kind of system you have, that it can be infiltrated 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.880 by right wing fascists. And so as the people of 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.200 Israel are out in the streets, as I saw before 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:44.320 I came on, have been protesting, what voice do they 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:48.320 have right now to combat this other than going into 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:52.680 the street, But there is no change. 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:57.200 I mean, we're seeing the limits of protests. I guess 0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.720 the only answer that I can think of right now 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.000 is that there were like six I think Israeli elections 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.639 that were stalemates. It was a long drawn out process 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.880 and the same strategy had been deployed on them which 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.120 is being deployed on us right now, which is this 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:19.000 Cambridge analyticas style messaging that your vote doesn't matter, everything's 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.199 just going to be stuck forever, nothing matters. And so 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:27.440 this final election that got this coalition into power. Liberals 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:29.960 they don't have the same categories as we do, so 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.400 liberals kind of meant something different. But the left voted 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:35.800 roughly the same as they always had. But the right 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.479 saw the fracture of the left as an opportunity to 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.880 seize power and quote unquote on Libs, and so they 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.600 voted in record numbers. They behind the scenes had been 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.840 mobilizing all of this voter drive and stuff like that, 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.399 and so the left voted about sixty percent roughly, but 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:57.560 the right voted like seventy three percent, which had never 0:24:57.600 --> 0:24:59.879 happened before, because they saw this as a chance to 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.320 once and for all make Israel a much more right 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:08.399 wing religious state. And the day after that election, it 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:10.920 was like kind of like our version of Trump. Every 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:13.360 people were people were in shock. They were in total shock, 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.000 and they're like, oh my god, this my life is over. 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:19.160 I know a lot of friends of mine moved out 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:23.280 of the country. The ones who stayed, I think were 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.199 right about what was going to happen to their to 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.359 their civil liberties. And so at the point then of 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:31.760 being out of power, their best response. I mean, people 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:34.880 like people's grandmothers have been in the street every single day, 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.720 people quit their jobs to protest. People are been stopping 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:43.520 traffic and lighting fires and and I guess the question is, 0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:49.240 what could they have done different? In retrospect, they could 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:53.160 have voted more than their opponents before. I think being 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:56.520 out of power is terrifying, given the forces you can 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:58.680 mobilize when they're in power now. And I say that 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:03.040