1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Unaddiction The Podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm a board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health. 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery. 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: have helped them along the way, and the formulas that 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time. Hey, y'all, 9 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: welcome to this week's episode of Unaddictioned the Podcast. I 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: knew as soon as we were going to do a 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: podcast that I wanted Joseph Green, an award winning spoken 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: word artist, educator, and person and sustained recovery to join 13 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: us on the show. He advocates for and inspires those 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: overcoming the disease of substance use die order through his 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: keynote speeches and workshops, and he's created and facilitated numerous 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: programs for youth across the country, including through his role 17 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: at the Mentor Foundation US. I met Joseph when we 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: were both in a documentary called Tipping the pain Scale 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: and was immediately captured not just by his spoken word talent, 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: but by the way his humanity shone through in the 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: film and also when I had the opportunity to meet 22 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: him in person. So welcome Joseph to the podcast. 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: I was going to say thank you for answering the 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: question how are you for real? Because we're conditioned not 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: to answer that question for real, and we walk around 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: with a lot of pain, and we miss a lot 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: of opportunity to be supported by people because we're conditioned 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: into not answering that question for real. So I was 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: just saying thank you. Sometimes I will ask people. I'll 31 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: be like, hey, how you doing, and they're like, I'm fine, 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: and I'm like, how are you for real? For real? 33 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: And then fine is not the answer. Yeah, So yeah, 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: thank you. 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: For knowing you're real. It's interesting, you said. I think 36 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: I'm reflecting on that process now, and I think it 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: stems partially from the fact that we are kind of 38 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: trained to say something when we're around other people, and 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: we don't always know what to say, and so, you know, 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: the colloquial interaction is how you're doing what's good, you know, 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: and you don't mean it asking it sometimes, right, and 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: so you know that you don't always mean it when 43 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: you ask it, and you never know. It's hard to 44 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: trust that the person is actually asking, you know, and 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: that some of the funniest like comedic bits are about 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: like that moment where you ask someone a question and 47 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: they go like way too far in the explanation. No, 48 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: it's just supposed to be like a like a real 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: quick one to you know. Definitely. I know you're at 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: the bay teller and people are talking to you all yeah, 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: so yeah, No, it's uh, I think it's it's a 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: practice that I am trying to get into, uh, you know, 53 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: if I don't want to know. I think I'm trying 54 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: to get to a space where I'm just saying hello. 55 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: M yes instead of asking. 56 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: Yeastead of asking, because I do it. I do it 57 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: all the time, and like in passing and like, and 58 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: I think there's generationally I notice the difference because like 59 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: my pop generation, especially like Southern folk, like they expect 60 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 2: to get into conversations right if you say, hi, how 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: you doing, what's good? Like you stopping for a few 62 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: moments to chat, right, and so you I'll do it 63 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 2: now with the older man, I'll be walking past somebody 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: and like, what's good, how you doing? And they start 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: a sentence and I'm already like three steps past them, 66 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: and so yeah, it's I think it's important to as 67 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: a as especially as a wordsmith, as somebody who claims 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: to craft words in an intentional way, to really think of. 69 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: That. 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's you know, it's one of 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: those small things that's actually quite big. And I think 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: it's a bit of a gift to be working on 73 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: because I know if you ask me, then you're asking me, right, 74 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take on this challenge too, because I 75 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,239 Speaker 1: could certainly be like, hey, good to see you, instead 76 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: of hey, how are you? 77 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: Right? 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: Like, hey, good to see you is not a question, 79 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: and I'm keeping it pushing. But if I ask how 80 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: are you, I'm actually I have the time to be 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: here present with you to hear how you are. 82 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. 83 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, you just gave it to me. Let's 84 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: just look it. Well, then let's jump in. This is 85 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: Joseph Green. It's so funny. We've only ever met once 86 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: and been in a documentary together, but I immediately thought 87 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: of you as a person who's voice I knew Ill 88 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: for sure wanted people to hear on the podcast. So 89 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: this is an addiction the podcast. I'm doctor Enzinger Harrison. 90 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be joined here by Joseph Green, whose 91 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: spirit and humanity shines through. It's the way I would 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: say I experienced you. 93 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: It's interesting you said that when I first saw the 94 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: trailer to the film, I was sure that you were 95 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: going to be a bigger part of it than you 96 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: ended up being, like the as a whole, because what 97 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: you said was such an encapsulation of what I think 98 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: they were going for. And maybe you were too concise 99 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: for your own good as far as like the final 100 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: cutter room. 101 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: It's not my strength, Okay, it was like the nicest 102 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: thing anybody said to me today. 103 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: It was. It was, It was. It was such a 104 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 2: It landed in a way that I think when I 105 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: finally did get to meet you in Vegas, that I 106 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: was more excited than I probably should have been based 107 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: on how much I actually knew about you as a person. Uh. 108 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: And I met your husband that day also, and I think, 109 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: you know, there's this family, and then there's people in 110 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: the world who you feel have a similar way of 111 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: seeing the world as you and there's an instantaneous like 112 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: I know you and I'm i'm I think that we're 113 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: fighting for the same thing, and like the details don't 114 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: need to get worked out right now, We're cool. This 115 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: is going to come back around again at some point, 116 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: and I'm I'm happy that it did. I'm happy that 117 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: you're doing this. I do have a question about this, Okay, 118 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: a question about this. 119 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, let me turn let me turn the. 120 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: Table, Let me turn around, and welcome to your own show. No, 121 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 2: can you? Can you just tell me the title? Explain 122 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: the title to me? Why you went with unaddictioned? 123 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: Well, I would love to so. Unaddiction is a word 124 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: that we made up. So the book is available now 125 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: for pre sale. You can actually have it in your 126 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: hands in January. And as I was writing the book, 127 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, like putting the heart and soul into understanding 128 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: what addiction is, what puts you at risk for addiction, 129 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: developing it in the first place, not having it get better, 130 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: having it ruined people's lives. And so we said we 131 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: wanted this to be un addiction, which is what do 132 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: we need to unlearn that we think we know about addiction? 133 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: What are the stigmas that we need to undo, and 134 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: what are the conversations that we need to uncover if 135 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: we're really to get our arms around the pain and 136 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: suffering that is this addiction crisis. And so it was like, 137 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: we got things to unlearn, we got stigmas to undo, 138 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: we got conversations to uncover, and it was like, oh, 139 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: this book is about on addiction. So that's how we 140 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: came to it. And you preempted because at the end 141 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: of every episode, I ask our guests, if there's one 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: thing you want our listeners to unlearn, or one stigma 143 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: that you want our listeners to work towards undoing, or 144 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: one conversation that you want our listeners to uncover. What 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: isn't But that's at the end. 146 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: I see, I see, I see. 147 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: You're about to give the answer right now. 148 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 2: Hold hold on to it, hold on to it, hold 149 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: on to that. Y'all gonna have to wait for that. 150 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: That's right, you gotta wait for that. So tell us, Joseph. 151 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: So the film that we were talking about is called 152 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: Tipping the Pain Scale. It's this incredible documentary and Joseph 153 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: and I were both in it. I was a talking head, 154 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: he was a human real person with lived experience, and 155 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: we met each other in person on kind of like 156 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: a screening. And so, Joseph, can you tell our listeners 157 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: who you are, how you came to be, who you are, 158 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: and what your life is these days? 159 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: Is that the first and only question? Or should I 160 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: keep it tight? 161 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: No, keep it as let her run? 162 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: Okay. I am a father Henry in August, Oh, my boys. 163 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: I am a partner. Angelique is my wife. I am 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: the son of Henry and Helen Green of Chester, South 165 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: Carolina and Child City, Virginia. I am a narrative disruptor, 166 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: which is a title that I gave myself, but I 167 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: hope I'm living. 168 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: Up to say that. Say again, Kuji Tagulah, name ourselves, 169 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: define ourselves, and speak for ourselves. Narrative disruptor. 170 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: There you go. I have lived a very blessed life, 171 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: even with some of the strife and pain that I've experienced, 172 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: And by that I mean I don't think my existence 173 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: is that far away from many people, save the lessons 174 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: and mentors that have allowed me to have a different 175 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 2: perspective on some of the things that I've gone through 176 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 2: and some of the things that I've witnessed allowing me 177 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: to to use my story and my narrative to disrupt 178 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: harmful stories and narratives about people who say are similar 179 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 2: spaces as I do, and something that I take very seriously. 180 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: So I am a storyteller, and my story personally doesn't 181 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: even start with me, as none of our stories start 182 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: with ourselves. My story goes back generations and is influenced 183 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: by many people and my family. I like to think 184 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: of how the sacrifices my grandmother specifically made turned into 185 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: the sacrifices my parents were able to make, which turn 186 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: into the privilege that I am now capable to use 187 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:52,119 Speaker 2: to try to continue the good work of many generations 188 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: of my family that have been resilient and fought back 189 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: but still known and been able to share joy in 190 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: the face of dark times hard times. I don't want 191 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 2: to say dark times hard times. So I grew up 192 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 2: in a military family, and I think that did a 193 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: few things for me. It helped me learn how to 194 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: say goodbye and hello quickly and effectively. You know, when 195 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: you're a military kid, you have if you're going to 196 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: have friends, you're going to have to learn how to 197 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: meet people. I went to five different elementary schools and 198 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: so before we settled down. And so that is something 199 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: where even though I have a lot of anxiety, I 200 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: can walk into spaces and I've been able to create 201 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: tools that create connectivity, and that even before I could 202 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: use that language like I'm using now to explain it, 203 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was doing. I was surviving. 204 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: I was trying to to have what I think humans 205 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: instinctually want is to connect with other people. And then 206 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 2: also the goodbye part, which is I think for me 207 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: something I've always been trying to find balance with. It's 208 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: okay to let go, but sometimes I let go too much, 209 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: and there are people who I wish I would have 210 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,599 Speaker 2: held on too closer, and things that I wish I 211 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 2: would have held on too closer, and so not would 212 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: it could have shoulding that space, but more trying to 213 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: use it as a reflection for when I have the 214 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: opportunity again, you know, I can be intentional about that space, 215 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: knowing how I felt about how things have gone in 216 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: the past. I grew up in a household with a 217 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: father who was an alcoholic, and I think I bring 218 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 2: that up in this space for a couple of reasons. One, obviously, 219 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: there is some tinge of the fact that we're going 220 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: to be talking about substance use in this space. But 221 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: I think I more want to represent the lack of 222 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: tools my father was given growing up to deal with 223 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: the amount of pain and trauma that he went through, 224 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: you know, coming from the South during the Great Migration, 225 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: his father dying when he was ten, and his mother 226 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: doing whatever it took to, you know, keep the family going. 227 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: He was at South Carolina State University in nineteen sixty 228 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: eight when there was an uprising of students and a 229 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: murder by the local police of three individuals on that campus, 230 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: one of which was his close friend. And then he 231 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: was drafted into Vietnam and so and while he did 232 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: not see direct combat, just being a black man drafted 233 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: into the military in nineteen sixty eight and all that 234 00:14:54,280 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: that brought with it. You know, I'm not surprised that 235 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: that's what he leaned on, because that's what people leaned on. 236 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: You lean on the crutch that you're given, and sometimes 237 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: that crutch holds you while you heal, and sometimes that 238 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: crutch becomes a permanent part of your existence until it breaks. 239 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: Right and his crutch broke when I was sixteen and 240 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: that's when he was lucky enough to get into recovery, 241 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: wise enough, lucky enough, blessed enough, and unfortunately not in 242 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: enough time for me to be able to learn from 243 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: his recovery. And so it became a part of who 244 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: I was. Also, even though I lived in a nicer time, 245 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: there was a lot of pain and strife and racial 246 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: trauma based on where I grew up, like things from 247 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: my childhood that I didn't have a language to explain, 248 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: and anto undiagnosed mental illness is that also as a 249 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: part of the upbringing up to very poor parents. You know, 250 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: you don't really have time for emotion. You got to 251 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: go to work, da da da da da. And if 252 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: you are dealing with something, you're not dealing with it 253 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: in a way that other people see it, right, So. 254 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: And the cultural underpinnings, a lot of times people are 255 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: not open to seeing that, or the stigma even prevents 256 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: the ability to try to open up about it. 257 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's I think shame for sure, right, 258 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: And when we think about the role of stigma, it 259 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: is sort of the manifestation of shame, right, And it's 260 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 2: in all aspects of our life. Unfortunately, the desire to 261 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: not be embarrassed or called out or seen as weak 262 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: or whatever it is. And yeah, and you have a 263 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: very very prideful people right who have gone through and 264 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: survived so much, and surviving being a part of our identity. 265 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: It seems like you should be able to just figure 266 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: it out or in our case, give it up to Jesus. 267 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: And uh, you know, it's funny you asked me that 268 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 2: question at the beginning. That's going to be at the end. 269 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I'm like, yep, I want to talk 270 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: about that, and I want to talk about that. These 271 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: are somethings that I need to undo. I'm trying trying 272 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: to hold on to the one that I'm want to 273 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: unravel at the end exactly, but let the rest flow. Yeah, 274 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: I think that it's it is. It's all played a 275 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: part though, because even now when I think about what 276 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: I do, a lot of that performer in me came 277 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: from church, right, seeing how people were able to invoke 278 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: emotion and feeling using parables and stories and attaching them 279 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: to moral lessons. And you know, when it was done 280 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: really really good. And even before I knew I was 281 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: listening to great storytellers, I've been receiving great stories from 282 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: the get right and in different styles. Because we were 283 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: a military family, sometimes we went to church on base. 284 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes we went to church, and you know our church 285 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: homes in Chester and chall City. And I just got this, 286 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: you know, plethora of learning on how to connect with 287 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: people and to get them to move right or to 288 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 2: feel moved, and and all of those things start to 289 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 2: sink into who you are. And I think, you know, 290 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: my rebellion against family also ended up being a rebellion 291 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 2: against organized religion. And I got into spoken with poetry 292 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 2: and that is his own church of sorts, you know, 293 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: the whole idea, The same thing is happening, different morals, 294 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: different rules, different values being displayed. But we're trying to invoke. 295 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: We're trying to move people, we're trying to connect, and 296 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: we are naming ourselves and we're naming our feelings and 297 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: we're naming the things around us in the world that 298 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: we want to see changed or better. And I've spent many, many, 299 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: many many years and those spaces at open mics, hosting 300 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: and all of that sort of culminating with a life 301 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: dedicated to youth development into this space where I am 302 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: right now, which is as someone who is still cultivating 303 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: his own ability to tell story, but more concerned about 304 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: creating a world where other people can use story in 305 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 2: the same way that I have, as far as the 306 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: intentional reflection, the filling in of our past so that 307 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: we feel less and chaos about our future, understanding that 308 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: we all have legacies that we've been building, and that 309 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 2: maybe our preoccupation with entertainment or other people's stories have 310 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: guiden us to forget how precious and important our own 311 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 2: story is. And I think also maybe above all of 312 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 2: that is the realization that while there are things that 313 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,239 Speaker 2: happen to us, that ultimately we have the opportunity to 314 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: be the primary authors of our own character and our 315 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: own story based on how we teach ourselves to respond 316 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 2: to the things that happen to us. 317 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: I want to dive into this because I hear you 318 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: pulling forward a thread that I thought was a really 319 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: beautiful way you described your father at the beginning, which 320 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: was he was never given the tools to deal with 321 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: all of the pain and suffering. And I don't think 322 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: you use the word trauma, but I'll use the word 323 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: trauma here that he experienced in his life, and I 324 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: hear you talking about and you mentioned it quickly, but 325 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: I want to make sure to pull it out. The 326 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: work that you do with youth and helping them be 327 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: the author of their own story, because that's part of 328 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: the pain and suffering and trauma. 329 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 2: Right. 330 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: When you don't have the skills, you're just along for 331 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: the ride. But when you are fortunate enough to have 332 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: someone who can give you some skills, then you can 333 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: pick up the pen and you can start writing the story, 334 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: either in advance of or in response to the experiences 335 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: that you have. So can we dig deeper into that 336 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: youth work that you're doing and how giving them the pen? 337 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: I know it's the proverbial pin, right, Like giving them 338 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: the proverbial pen to write their own stories helps to 339 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: try to equip them in a way your father was 340 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: not equipped and in a way your father was not 341 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: equipped to equip you. 342 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll say this. I'll start with for context, I 343 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 2: am a person in long term recovery, and the height 344 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: of my active use was in I was living in 345 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: Upstate New York, and it was in between a time 346 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 2: where I was a theater student and then dropped out 347 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: of theater because that's not what I wanted to do 348 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: in my life, picked up spoken word poetry and started 349 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: competing and touring, and then landed in upstate New York, 350 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: which was a beautiful place that I was. I made 351 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 2: it too way too early in life, like it was 352 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: not enough stuff going on now as I'm getting closer 353 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 2: to retirement, it looks beautiful back then, idle hands, right, 354 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: and so, uh, you're. 355 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: Like twenty five years old talking about retirement. 356 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 2: But anyway, go ahead, Yeah, I'm for the audience in 357 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: forty two. Uh it don't it don't it don't crack 358 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: until it breaks. Uh, And you go from you know, 359 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 2: uh right, like you were, you were just thirty five, 360 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: you were thirty five two days ago, and how are you, 361 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman? You know. And it's funny now because I'm 362 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: so old at this point that like even the Dizel 363 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: joke doesn't hit with a certain generation because we're all 364 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: thinking of the same Denzel, but not the one that 365 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 2: was just an equal lives of three exactly. 366 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sorry, go ahead. 367 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: No, that's fine, that's fine up until I got into recovery, 368 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 2: and I ended up about a year in recovery losing 369 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: a friend of mine, a close friend of mine from 370 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 2: upstate New York. Uh that I ever really understood what 371 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: writing could be used for, what it meant, what it 372 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: could mean to me. Up until that point, I had, 373 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 2: you know, I was I wanted to be famous. I 374 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 2: wanted to you know, I went from being an actor 375 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: to doing spoken word poetry. Fast forwarding to this space 376 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: where I'm going up to New York for my friend's funeral, 377 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 2: and I have an opportunity after the funeral, or a crossroads, 378 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: if you will, a place in life where I think 379 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: a big choice. And I didn't understand how big it 380 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: was until many years later. But after the funeral, I 381 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: could have gone back to the bar where we all 382 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: lived for many years and where I knew everybody would be, 383 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 2: and I could have done what is an unfortunate it 384 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 2: practice or habit in a community of active use, which 385 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 2: is trying to fill in the hole of a loss 386 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: with the same thing that took the person right that 387 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: person was in pain and they were trying to deal 388 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: with their pain. You're in pain now. And for me, 389 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: having been a year into the sobriety from my drug 390 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: of choice, I knew that there was a really good 391 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: chance that if I had tried to do the amount 392 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: of drugs equal to the whole in my chest. From 393 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: his loss, I probably would have I could have lost 394 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: my life also, And so instead I went back to 395 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: the hotel and I wrote a poem. And when I'm 396 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: sharing this story with young people now, I showed that 397 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 2: it's not about the thing. It's not about what your 398 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: poetry is. It's about having something that when the phones 399 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: don't answer and the music doesn't connect, and the people 400 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: aren't there for you in the way that you need 401 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: them to be there for you, what is that thing 402 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: that you can go through or go to to get 403 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 2: through what you're you know? And so I said, in 404 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: this case, poetry saved my life, right. And I try 405 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: to share with the young people that I work with 406 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: in these spaces, whether it be when I was doing 407 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: the after school creative writing clubs and the spoken word clubs, 408 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: or now as I'm going around talking about prevention and recovery, 409 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: like what is your poetry, Like, what is the thing 410 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: that you know right now gets you through a hard time? 411 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: Because I can guarantee you more hard times are coming. 412 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 2: So how do we start developing these tools and intentionally 413 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: right so that when it does happen because I get this. 414 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 2: You know, people say this all the time. I had 415 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: nothing to do. I didn't know what to do with 416 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: my hands. I didn't know what to do with the pain. 417 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: I didn't know what. But if I asked you, like, 418 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 2: what's your favorite thing to do on a rainy day, 419 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 2: and you're like, read a book, write, or play outside 420 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 2: in the rain, or go for a hike or what, 421 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 2: you know, like you can list things that you do instinctually, 422 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: and so neither say I wrote the poem. I come 423 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 2: back to Northern Virginia and it had been a while 424 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 2: since I'd done spoken word poetry in public because I 425 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 2: was having a problem I think a lot of folks 426 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: in art do when they get into recovery of separating 427 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: their use from their creation, and so I hadn't created 428 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: anything that I thought was worth sharing for a while. 429 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: But I had this new poem and I wanted to 430 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: share it. I got my first feature at a space 431 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: in the area and I shared the poem and in 432 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 2: the audience was a woman who runs who ran a 433 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 2: after school program for foster students that are in foster care, 434 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: so where they go in between, and she was like, Hey, 435 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: come read your poem and tell your story to these 436 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: young people, and no one had ever asked me to 437 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: do that before, Like as a poet. If you see 438 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: my catalog before this poem and after this poem, you 439 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: know this is an extraordinarily vain person who doesn't quite 440 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: have his moral bearings in the world. Right. He's talented, 441 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: the words sound good, but like the things that he's 442 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 2: grasping at are shallow at best. And so no one 443 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 2: ever asked you to tell me more about the shallow 444 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 2: poem you wrote, right, But when I emoted in this 445 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: particular way, it was like, Hey, you shared something that 446 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: I know these young people can connect with. Would you 447 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: be willing and to come in to show them that 448 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 2: they are not alone and what they're feeling? 449 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: You moved to the spirit. 450 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so they brought me in and I sat down, 451 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 2: and first I tried to be a performer because I 452 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: was in and I wanted them to clap for me 453 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: and think I was good at what I did. And 454 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: then they started asking me questions and it became a conversation, 455 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: and I took my cool off and they took their 456 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: shields off. Because when you're that kind of young person, 457 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: in that kind of space gone through and having gone 458 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: through what they had gone through, you carry a lot 459 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 2: of armor with you, for sure, and especially from random 460 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: people that come in who act like they have something 461 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: you need, right that that sends off signals for folks, 462 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: all the warnings. And so I realized in that moment, 463 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: and you know, I've been able to reflect on this 464 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: thousands of times since, but I think instinctually, in that moment, 465 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 2: I realized that if I really wanted to connect with people, 466 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: I would have to learn how to connect with myself first, right, 467 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: I'd have to be able to offer them something authentic 468 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: if I wanted something authentic in return. And and I 469 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: think I ran maybe a little too fast at first 470 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: into writing about who I really was and my feelings 471 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: and things of that sort. And then I say really fast, 472 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: maybe a little too fast, because I probably could have 473 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: used a little bit of therapy also, so I didn't 474 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: put all of it into that space. But nonetheless I 475 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: realized I had something, and I realized that there were 476 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: other people, young people that needed that something also. And so, 477 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: with zero experience at the beginning, a friend, now really 478 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: close friend, was like, Hey, come and talk to my 479 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: students after school. They want to do a poetry club 480 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: and thirty six clubs, six years, hundreds of open mics, tournament, scholarships, YadA, YadA, YadA. Later, 481 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: you know, and some training, now, some actual training. I 482 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: come to this place where I understand that, and I 483 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: lost my way for a moment. But the thing that 484 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: I'm giving them is not the ability to be good performers, right, 485 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 2: it's the the process of writing. 486 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: This. 487 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: The two things that are happening. One, you are tuning 488 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: into your past self because you can't create anything that 489 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: wasn't that isn't already a part of you, right. And 490 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: you are also when you're doing it well, I think 491 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: you're freeing yourself by forgiving yourself before you even make 492 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: a mistake that you might be embarrassed by, and allowing 493 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: yourself to get into a flow state where you are 494 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: becoming a vessel for all of that thought and wisdom 495 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 2: and training and life experience. And so when people ask me, 496 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: and you know, people ask me flippantly sometimes back in 497 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: the day, especially when I was you know, out really 498 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 2: a disciple of spoken word poetry and poetry workshops, like 499 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: does the world really need more poets? And my response 500 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: to folks is I'm not trying to create a world 501 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: of more poets. I'm trying to create more poetically minded people, 502 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: right because when I sit back and I write, I 503 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: practice self forgiveness, I practice reflection, and then I practice 504 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: the ability to pull reason from the things that have 505 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: happened to me, so that I get to choose what 506 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: I learned from this lesson from this thing that happened. 507 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: One of the things that have always one of the 508 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 2: quotes that I think has always bothered me that the 509 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: platitudes that people throw around is that everything happens for 510 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 2: a reason. And that's great if that's what you believe, 511 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 2: and if you are able to stop at that as 512 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: you're like, all you need to be satisfied in the 513 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: universe is to know that things happen for a reason. Cool. 514 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: I don't think most people are like that, and I 515 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: feel that most people walk away from that statement feeling unsatisfied. 516 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: And so when I say poetically minded people, people who 517 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 2: can reflect and think forward, it's no matter whether or 518 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: not you believe things happen for a reason. It is 519 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: our responsibility to pull reason from the things that happen. 520 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: Whether or not you believe things happen for a reason. 521 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 2: It is our responsibility to pull reason from the things 522 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: that happen, and that's how we yeah, and that's how 523 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 2: we we build our rudder. Right, this is how we 524 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: start to understand that I have a place in things 525 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 2: that happened to me, even if I didn't want those 526 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 2: things to happen to me, right, like the moment the 527 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 2: initial thing happens. If I'm practicing mindfulness, if I'm practicing intention, 528 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: if I'm practicing the emotional maturity, I am giving myself 529 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 2: the ability to respond in a way that is in 530 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: sync with the best version of myself or the version 531 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 2: of myself that I want to be when there aren't 532 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 2: stressful things happening. Right, And that's a practice, and that's why, Yeah, 533 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 2: go ahead, please, no. 534 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's a practice. And so it's like 535 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: what's beautiful about your work? And what I think is 536 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: like two point zero on an addiction the book is 537 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: how do we equit our young people especially but also 538 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: ourselves as no longer the youngest members of the human 539 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: race to find the reason and the things that happen. 540 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: And so I'm definitely not getting paid although people think 541 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: I am this PQ program that I'm doing because I 542 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: talk about it all the time. I've become a PQ evangelist, 543 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: and it talks about the sage mindset. Sounds a lot 544 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: about what you were saying. There's acceptance. The sage mindsets 545 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: approaches hardship in two ways. Acceptance which is everything happens 546 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: for a reason, or acceptance and converted to an opportunity 547 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: or a gift, which is the next step that you're 548 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: teaching the young people to take right, find the reason 549 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: and the thing that happened, and learn from it what 550 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: you want to learn from it. 551 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that, and I think so. I 552 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: think the part of it that I've added in there, 553 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: I think is a response to I feel. I feel 554 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 2: that when people are looking for the motivation to change, 555 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 2: or the courage to face something difficult, or the ability 556 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 2: to work through a trauma or mental health issue, that 557 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: the sound bidiness of the world throws out certain things 558 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 2: without making them tangible. Right, And so you know, coming 559 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 2: from a church background, it tends to stop with give 560 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: it to Jesus. Everything happens for a reason. God has 561 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: a plan. Great, I don't want to isolate those people, right, 562 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 2: But there's that old parable or story that someone tells, 563 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 2: and I've heard it a dozen times a dozen different ways. 564 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 2: But like a guy's in the middle of the boat 565 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 2: crashes and he's on a raft, and a guy comes 566 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 2: by on a boat and is like, hey, do you 567 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: want to ride? He's like, no, I trust God God. 568 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 2: I'm waiting for God. And then like the navy comes by, 569 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 2: and then like do you want to pictures up? No? No, no, 570 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 2: I'm waiting for God. God's got me. And then like 571 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 2: he eventually he just dies of starvation. He gets up 572 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 2: to heaven and God was like he was mad at God. 573 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: It's like, why didn't you come and save me. He's like, 574 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 2: I sent you a raft, I sent you the navy, 575 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 2: I sent you all of these things. The understanding, the 576 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 2: acceptance of the hardship of existence is only half. It's 577 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 2: like saying recovery is equal to sobriety, and it's not right. 578 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: Like the sobriety is a tool in my recovery. My 579 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 2: recovery is trying to live every day the best version 580 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 2: of myself, and the best version of myself needs to 581 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: live and love and laugh and risk and be able 582 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: to get out in the world and connect again and 583 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 2: get over the things that I thought I needed the 584 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 2: crutch of the substance to deal with. But if I 585 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: just am dealing in the unnegative space right of not 586 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 2: doing a thing, then I'm I am. I put myself 587 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 2: in a box. And what I really want to do 588 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 2: is put the sceptions in a box and I want 589 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 2: to live in the infinite space that's around it. You 590 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 2: know it. 591 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it all right. Listen. First 592 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: of all, this conversation went too fast, which I knew 593 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,800 Speaker 1: that it would, because even when you're just talking, you 594 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: just sound like a narrative disruptor, like you are just 595 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: like laying the words down in my ears are like 596 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: yes more and my soul and my spirit. But the 597 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: time has come, Joseph. You have already taught us so 598 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 1: many things to unlearn, so many things to think about undoing, 599 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: so many conversations to uncover. But you're going to leave 600 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: us with one. And what is it? 601 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 2: A little bit of context real quick, just before we started, 602 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 2: before we press record, I let you know that my 603 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 2: father had passed away. This is the first real work 604 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 2: thing I've done since I just the funeral was a 605 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 2: day ago, and so I've been thinking about parenting you know, 606 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: my oldest son lives in New Mexico with his mother's 607 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 2: and he was here for the funeral, and I just 608 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: put him on the plane to go back this morning, 609 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 2: and I sat in the in the the parking lot 610 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 2: outside of the airport and wept. And it was a cleansing, right, 611 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: it was a good thing. It was just so much 612 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 2: emotion and so many things, and I needed to get 613 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 2: past that swelling. And a thought came into my head 614 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 2: about parenting, and I think that I would like to 615 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 2: share that as my moment today, and it's it's about 616 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 2: the difference between questioning yourself and intentional reflection. I think 617 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,919 Speaker 2: that a lot of times when we're in these high 618 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 2: pressure spaces, and what higher pressure space than that of 619 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 2: a parent, the guiding of a person's life, in people's lives, 620 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 2: and we are trained, I think maybe through Western culture 621 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 2: or whatever it is, that like we have to be 622 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: decisive and we can't second guess ourselves because if we 623 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 2: start questioning ourselves, then the people who are following us 624 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: are going to start questioning themselves, and then we're just 625 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 2: going to be a society that doesn't you know, it's 626 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 2: not decisive, it doesn't get things done because it's so 627 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 2: many questions, and when I think about how I want 628 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 2: to show up for my children, I have to reflect 629 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 2: on how I've shown up for my children, right. I 630 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 2: have to look back at those moments and say, not 631 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 2: I wish I would have done that better, but could 632 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 2: I have done that better? Not because I did it bad, 633 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 2: but because my commitment is to being the best parent 634 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 2: I can be. And the same way a football player 635 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 2: would go back and look at film of a performance 636 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 2: that happened in the past, look at the tapes, what 637 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 2: was your foot right? What could you have done better 638 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 2: in that route? The same thing I think we should 639 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 2: do with ourselves. If we love ourselves and if we 640 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 2: are acting in love for the people that have either 641 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 2: by just shere that they got you brought them here 642 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: on this planet, or you work with them, or however 643 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 2: it is, if there's love for that person that partner 644 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 2: those people, it is our responsibility to look back at 645 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 2: how we've acted and find better ways to exist, even 646 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 2: if it's just an inch further, that's an inch of 647 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 2: a gift that we're giving to the people around us, 648 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 2: And the more we can give them, the more we 649 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 2: can open ourselves up. To receive from them, and that 650 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 2: is the kind of world I want to live in, 651 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 2: in the kind of world I want to give my children. 652 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: Beautiful Thank you. 653 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 2: That's what's all I heard today. 654 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: Thank you. I receive it. I receive every bit of it. 655 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us in celebration of your 656 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 1: father and in healing, of using your gifts to feel 657 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: the hole that I know is left, but the gift 658 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: that can come from it. Thank you for being on 659 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: with us today. 660 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for the conversation. I loved it. It 661 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 2: was lovely. 662 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved it so much, man. So 663 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: that was an absolutely incredible conversation. And after we finished taping, 664 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: we actually reached out to Joseph and asked if he 665 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind sharing with us the poem that saved his life. 666 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: So you heard him reference this poem that he wrote 667 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 1: after he lost a really close friend to drug overdose, 668 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: and he sent it to us. So here it is. 669 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 2: The last time I saw you alive. I wish I 670 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 2: would have talked ugly to you, said put the straw down. No, 671 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 2: I don't want to take another line. I should be 672 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 2: writing them, my friend. You are a composer of music 673 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 2: and magic. Instruct your limbs to serve a purpose greater 674 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 2: than self indulgence. Do not be fooled into thinking your 675 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 2: pain has shop or teeth than anyone else's. I had 676 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 2: a chance, but said nothing because I was high. This 677 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 2: is how I got started. A bottle of jack and 678 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 2: a mirror, memory and scissors, dreams drenched in ether, sliced 679 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 2: by razors, potential road like twenty dollars bills, numbing, the 680 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 2: feeling on the tip of my tongue that I or 681 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 2: this tongue should be serving a greater purpose. And a 682 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 2: last ditch, a tip at self assessment. I decided to 683 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 2: look at my life through the eyes of loved ones, 684 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 2: where they see everything, especially the ugly, from years of 685 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 2: drug use, from lying with to lying two angels friends. 686 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 2: I had forsaken taking so much more than I had given. 687 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 2: I extremelined self centiveness and to a science. But there 688 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 2: was a righteousness there, a willingness to craft this illness 689 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 2: through alchemy and poetry and to a seer stone. But honestly, 690 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 2: how could I speak ugly to you when I was 691 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 2: yet to speak it to myself? In these nightmares of hindsight, 692 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 2: there is no poetry, no alliterations to soften the blow. 693 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,480 Speaker 2: Some realities have no simile truth is like truth? How 694 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 2: could I form my lips to call your suicide a 695 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 2: tragedy when I left you alone in that room, kept 696 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,280 Speaker 2: company by narcotics, and a thousand goes straight in your disappointments. 697 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 2: I can only imagine all the voices you heard, all 698 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 2: but mine, smear, makeup onto disgust. If you must trust 699 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 2: the truth is seldom pretty, but she is always beautiful. 700 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 2: It is in times like these that I need you 701 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 2: to please talk ugly to me. My pain needs it. Too. 702 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,720 Speaker 2: Many times we caress sadness when it needs to be shaken, 703 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 2: torn from its place of comfort, forced to grow wings 704 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 2: to survive. Don't just tell me I can grow up 705 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 2: and be whatever I want. Tell me that whatever I 706 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 2: want better be something I am willing to achieve. That 707 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 2: dreams will dissipate under the weight of addiction, and that 708 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 2: there is a distinct difference between living like a rock 709 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 2: star and actually being one. Sometimes, no matter how many 710 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 2: poems you've written, you will feel like nothing more than 711 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 2: an addict, an opposer. Fear not, we are all divinely 712 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 2: flawed individuals, perfectly ugly. No point in hiding behind pretty lies. 713 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 2: We are the sum of the scars that hold together 714 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 2: the remainder of our pretty pieces. 715 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 3: The last time I saw you alive, the last time 716 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 3: I saw you alive, the last time I saw you alive, 717 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 3: I wish I would have talked ugly to you. 718 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 2: It would have been the most beautiful thing I never said. 719 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. My book on Addiction, 720 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: Six mind Changing Conversations That Could Save a Life is 721 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,280 Speaker 1: now available for pre order at bookshop dot org, Union 722 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: Square and Company, and Noble, Amazon, and wherever books are sold. 723 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 1: If you like to this episode, please share it with 724 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: someone you think may need to hear it. Also, please 725 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,320 Speaker 1: subscribe to this podcast and leave a five star review 726 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: that helps us reach any and everyone who may be 727 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,320 Speaker 1: looking for support in the face of addiction.