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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: back with doctor David living Stennis. We talk about space.

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Speaker 1: How is the Space Show going, David, Well, we're in

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Speaker 1: our twenty first year and last night I did the

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Speaker 1: three thousand, nine hundred and thirty first show, Good for You,

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Speaker 1: So it's going very, very nicely. And the guests wanted

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Speaker 1: me to have a contest and auction off the four

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Speaker 1: thousand show, so I may think of something like that.

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Speaker 1: What's the best way for people to see and hear

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Speaker 1: the program? The Space Show dot com www The Space

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Speaker 1: Show dot com and that will get you to it

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Speaker 1: and all of the archives and how to contact me

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Speaker 1: and how to listen live. And it's a live broadcast

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Speaker 1: like Coast is, and then it's archived and put out

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Speaker 1: on the podcasting services. They had all of that is there,

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Speaker 1: good for you. They had a small fire near the

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Speaker 1: Artemis Moon Mission space launch area yesterday and not a

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Speaker 1: big one, but but the weather's been all bad and everything.

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Speaker 1: This thing's getting delayed, delayed, delayed. Well it is and

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Speaker 1: it is the program of record to get us back

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Speaker 1: to the Moon. So, I mean it's got its critics

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Speaker 1: and rightly so probably, but hopefully they will get it

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Speaker 1: together now they I did read where when they took

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Speaker 1: it back to the VAB building, which is where they

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Speaker 1: take it apart and repair it and do this and

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Speaker 1: that with it. But that's because of the hurricane. They

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Speaker 1: are going to open it up and do some work

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Speaker 1: in it. And they said that there's no way it'll

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Speaker 1: be ready to launch before sometime in probably mid November. Wow. So, um,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be delayed again, and hopefully they will,

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Speaker 1: they will get it off. You know, it's been about

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Speaker 1: fourteen years into making. It's costs twenty three million dollars

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Speaker 1: and a normal launch for this thing with its Moon

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Speaker 1: mission is about but four point one billion dollars. It's very,

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Speaker 1: very costly, probably not sustainable, but it is our It

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Speaker 1: is the way that Nasid and Congress decided to take

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Speaker 1: us back to the Moon. Explain what Artemis won is

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Speaker 1: what it looks like, David, So, Artemis one. Artemis is

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Speaker 1: the mission to return to the Moon, and artist must

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Speaker 1: one is the first flight, which is a test flight

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Speaker 1: with no humans on board. So Artemis one, which is

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Speaker 1: the one we're talking about and we want to see

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Speaker 1: get launched. Will go to the Moon and we'll go

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Speaker 1: by the Moon by about a thousand miles, swing back around,

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Speaker 1: and then return back to Earth. There's no part of

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Speaker 1: the rocket that is reusable, not even the engines, nothing,

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Speaker 1: even though they were reusable on the Space Shuttle. All

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Speaker 1: of that is dumped into the ocean and then the

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Speaker 1: Orion capsule will come back and land in the ocean

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Speaker 1: about forty five days later. So that's all a test mission.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Orion is loaded with instruments to help

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Speaker 1: them make sure everything is working right and they're doing

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Speaker 1: things right. Then missions Artemis two three four, assuming that

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Speaker 1: they actually go um will be missions going to the

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Speaker 1: Moon and eventually carrying crew to go to the Moon.

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Speaker 1: But this is strictly a test flight, and they've they've

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Speaker 1: had problems, you know, they've had to hydrogen leak in

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Speaker 1: the valalves. They have an abort system on it, and

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Speaker 1: because they spent so much time with it, the batteries

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Speaker 1: and the and the ingredients of the abort system expired,

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Speaker 1: so that they had to get a special approval to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and use them. Because they think that everything

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Speaker 1: is still good because it's not expired that much. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they go back to the VAB

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Speaker 1: like they did for the for the hurricane, and they

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Speaker 1: might go ahead and update the abort system because of

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Speaker 1: that expiration day. Well, we got to the Moon with

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Speaker 1: fifty year old technology, David, Why does this one seem

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Speaker 1: so difficult? Well, they took a lot more risk with

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Speaker 1: Saturn five, as you know. Sure they didn't do the

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Speaker 1: kind of testing that they do today. And they had

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Speaker 1: a reason to take risk, which was the Cold War

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Speaker 1: and beating the Soviet Union to the Moon and then

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Speaker 1: using that to make sure the world knew that the

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Speaker 1: Western way of life was better and more science, more

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Speaker 1: education and help topple the totalitarian governments. Well that stuff

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore. And NASA's very, very risk averse. So um,

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Speaker 1: and this has been so long in the making that

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Speaker 1: it just shows up with problems and I think it's

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Speaker 1: a complicated rocket and uh, it's way too costly. And

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Speaker 1: it's when you look at what SpaceX is doing with

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Speaker 1: Starship and the advantages of it and and the way

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Speaker 1: it's designed and how Musk is willing to test to

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Speaker 1: destruction to learn how to make it better, and NASA

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Speaker 1: has only one of SLS. I think there may be

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Speaker 1: some others on an assembly line, someplay, but they can't

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Speaker 1: afford to lose it. And Musk will watches rockets flow

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Speaker 1: up in order to learn how to improve them and

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Speaker 1: fix the errors. And yeah, Musk is not risk averse,

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Speaker 1: And so I think the risk averse attitude and the

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Speaker 1: fact that they're recycling a lot of Space Shuttle technology

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Speaker 1: and hardware and they've refit it to be on SLS.

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Speaker 1: For example, they're using solid rocket boosters again, so the

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Speaker 1: solid rocket booster are a little different from the Shuttle.

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Speaker 1: They're five segments instead of four, and they have a

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Speaker 1: different chemical compound. But once you ignite them, you can't

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Speaker 1: stop them. So they have to have an abort system

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Speaker 1: with a crew jettison on it. So that's got its

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Speaker 1: own propulsion system that has to work with Starship does

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Speaker 1: not have an abort system. And the reason why is

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Speaker 1: musk fed. The statistics on using aboard system are so

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Speaker 1: low that they just don't happen, and it's not worth

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Speaker 1: doing it. You're better off with redundancy and sensors and

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Speaker 1: testing and testing and testing and making sure everything's going

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Speaker 1: to work rather than putting in the hardware and the

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Speaker 1: expense and more complicated systems for a crew aboard system. Well, David,

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Speaker 1: who's going to get back to the Moon with astronauts first, Musk,

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Speaker 1: Bezos or Nassa. Well, Musk is going to the Moon

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Speaker 1: with a human lander that services Artemus. So if Musk

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Speaker 1: gets astronauts to the Moon, it's with Artemus. But the

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Speaker 1: irony is George that's Starship could fly directly to the

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Speaker 1: Moon and doesn't have to do what SLS does, which

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Speaker 1: is go to the Gateway and go to a halo

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Speaker 1: orbit and all this other stuff which just complicates everything

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Speaker 1: and drums up the cost. But Starship is not planning

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Speaker 1: to apply directly to the Moon at this time, and

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Speaker 1: Musk is may the human lander that would go from

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Speaker 1: the Gateway to the surface of the Moon and then

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Speaker 1: back again because SLS and Orion can't go to the

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Speaker 1: surface of the Moon. So to the Moon. I think

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Speaker 1: NASA will prevail and we will get there, even if

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Speaker 1: artemis one gets delayed again and Artemus who gets delayed.

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Speaker 1: I most people think Musk will go to Mars with

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Speaker 1: people before NASA goes to Mars with people, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a pretty good bet. Why aren't they really

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Speaker 1: working in hand in hand, Well, they do, you know.

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Speaker 1: And Musk has given NASA tons and tons of credit

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Speaker 1: for helping with the design and creating the Falcon rockets

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Speaker 1: which are so successful, and has often said he couldn't

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Speaker 1: have done it without all the help and the assistance

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Speaker 1: from NASA. And he is building the human lander or NASA.

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Speaker 1: But Must wants to go to Mars, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: his and his modus operendi. And NASA wants to go

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Speaker 1: to the Moon and learn how to live and work

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Speaker 1: and play and do things on the Moon, and then

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Speaker 1: from the Moon go to Mars. And that halo orbit

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Speaker 1: that I mentioned a few minutes ago makes it easier

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Speaker 1: to go from the area of the Moon to another

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Speaker 1: place like Mars. But Must wants to fly direct. He

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Speaker 1: needs to do some orbital refueling. That technology has not

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Speaker 1: been perfected yet, but he probably will get to the

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Speaker 1: to Mars. That's his objective. Before NASA is ready to

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Speaker 1: go to Mars. What's going on with space tourism, David

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Speaker 1: hotels and things like that. Well, let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: Well hotel there are some company that are trying to

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Speaker 1: work on the orbital construction of big structures, and they're

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Speaker 1: one of them is Orbital as Company. So what they're

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Speaker 1: doing is trying to perfect their construction technology with terrestrial

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Speaker 1: structures and then move it out and evolve it out

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Speaker 1: into learning how to do it in space. And so

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Speaker 1: it's coming, but it's very very slow, and we don't

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Speaker 1: have vehicles for orbital tourism anyway, unless Musk wants to

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Speaker 1: dedicate some SpaceX rockets and the Dragon capsule to do

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Speaker 1: orbital tourism, and he hasn't really expressed a big interest

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Speaker 1: in doing that, although he is doing that with a

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Speaker 1: trip to make sort of a figure eight around the

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Speaker 1: Moon with that Japanese person who bought out the entire

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Speaker 1: mission and then has artists going on it, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's supposed to happen next year or in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, But Musk doesn't have the Big Moon interest.

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Speaker 1: But I think they do sort of work hand in hand,

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Speaker 1: but they have different goals and different objectives, and Starship

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Speaker 1: and SpaceX are so much more cost effective and so

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Speaker 1: much more productive that people are still calling for the

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Speaker 1: cancelation of SLS. But that is an issue. Will Nassas,

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Speaker 1: if Starship is very very successful, continue with SLS at

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Speaker 1: its unbelievably high cost and its limitations, or will they

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Speaker 1: cancel it downstream? What about China? Where do they stand? Well,

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Speaker 1: they're further down the road, but the one thing about

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Speaker 1: China is their totalitarian government, so they can allocate resources

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Speaker 1: and timing and energy the way they want, and they

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Speaker 1: don't have a Congress or anybody to object or oppose,

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Speaker 1: so they usually accomplish what they set out to do.

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Speaker 1: They are pretty good at doing things on time. They

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Speaker 1: are starting to build bigger rockets, and they aren't introducing

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Speaker 1: reusability into what they want to do. And their lunar

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Speaker 1: plans are a little bit further down the road than

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Speaker 1: Artemis lunar plans are, but they want to get there,

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Speaker 1: and they want to go to the lunar South Pole.

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Speaker 1: And people say, we're not in a race with them,

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Speaker 1: but then when you talk to people who know, and

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Speaker 1: to a national security specialists, we are in a race

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Speaker 1: with them because the group that gets there first, it's

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Speaker 1: likely their culture that will prevail or at least be

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Speaker 1: very very important, and others will find that culture there

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Speaker 1: and the West does not want the Chinese culture to

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Speaker 1: be predominant on the Moon. And then they cite things

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Speaker 1: like Taiwan and the South Sea South China Sea Island

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Speaker 1: and other episodes of what they do with their minorities

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and they say it's very important

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Speaker 1: that even though we've already been to the Moon, that

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Speaker 1: we get there and when we do, Artemis Remember it's

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Speaker 1: a coalition of a lot of Western countries, and so

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Speaker 1: it's not just the United States, it's it's a whole

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Speaker 1: smorgessport of partners and more and more countries are signing

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Speaker 1: onto it all the time as well. So, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a race with Western culture and tradition

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Speaker 1: versus China. But China has good technology and good engineering.

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Speaker 1: They're building a space station right now, and you know

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Speaker 1: they're they're not to be taken lightly, and they do

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Speaker 1: things online and they accomplish their mission. But they also

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Speaker 1: are callous, like they don't try to redirect their rocket

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Speaker 1: stages coming back to Earth and you probably covered that,

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Speaker 1: and who knows where they're going to fall. They may

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Speaker 1: fall on a populated area and they don't care, whereas

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Speaker 1: Western nations in the private sector. They direct and do

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Speaker 1: their bestness to control and know where these stages of

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Speaker 1: the rockets are going to fall so they don't do

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Speaker 1: any damage. I mean, it's one hundred and eighty degree

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Speaker 1: difference in perspective, and China doesn't care about things like that.

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Speaker 1: And if it comes in over your city, you might

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Speaker 1: care to David fifty years ago. Fifty years ago, in December,

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Speaker 1: we had our last man Moon mission with Apollo seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Why did we stop? Well, you know, the conventional wisdom

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Speaker 1: is that people were losing interest in the program. The

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Speaker 1: television audiences had dropped down quite a bit. We were

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Speaker 1: starting to deal more seriously with Vietnam War and the

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Speaker 1: issues of it, and the inflation in the Great Society

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Speaker 1: and the economic conditions, and there wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 1: interest in continuing to go. They had three Saturn fives

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Speaker 1: ready to go, and Nixon canceled it all and so, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the space crowd people probably were pretty upset

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Speaker 1: at the time. I know, the school kids and my

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Speaker 1: age and we were all upset. We we wanted to go.

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Speaker 1: The Saturn fives went to museums and there you can

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Speaker 1: see them. They're amazing rockets. And they're they're in different

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Speaker 1: museums around the country. And um, and there's the conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories of why we stopped so we were told to

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Speaker 1: right by the ets, right, Yeah, And I suspect you

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Speaker 1: can look at the data on the media and the

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Speaker 1: TV audiences and the and the public opinion poell and

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Speaker 1: in it the interest was really dropping off. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more