1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and six surgeon generals have co authored 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: an offed warning against RFK Junior endangering the health of 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: the nation. We have such a great show for you 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: today from the I've Had It podcast. Jennifer Welch stops 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: by to talk to us about how Republicans run their 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: states into the ground with absurd policies. And then we'll 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: talk to Lisa Graves about her new book Without Precedent, 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: how Chief Justice Roberts and his accomplices rewrote the Constitution 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: and dismantled our rights. 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: But first the news, Mike, the White House has signaled 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: it may try to deny backpaid for low federal workers. 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: I'm married to a federal worker. We've had to have 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: some tough conversations around our dinner table about what it 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: means if she doesn't get paid, even though right now 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: she's at work in her office, and a lot of 18 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: people don't realize this is the reality for the essential worker, 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: is that they're working right now and she's doing the 20 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: job that she took, and that they're potentially not paying her. 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: So some staff is not getting paid and other staff 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: is getting paid, but all members of Congress are getting 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: fucking paid. So if you're Mike Johnson, you're cashing your 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: check even if your staff is not. So I think 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: that's a pretty fucked up piece of fuck Erry. I 26 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: want to add that, look, Trump administration and one Russell 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: Tivaught have worked real hard to try to make this 28 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: as scary and painful for federal workers as possible. But 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: what I think is interesting about this shutdown, and I 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: think of many of the people, I was the most 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: worried about the shutdown because I honestly thought that Democrats 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: would lose their nerve. I thought that Republicans would just 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: like full on slash the entire federal budget. I thought 34 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: this would be a disaster. I was really worried that 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: Democrats wouldn't be able to message a shutdown. And you 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: know what's happened. Democrats have done a really good job, honestly, 37 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: and even leadership, which is very cautious and loyally, They've 38 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: actually been everywhere talking about this shutdown, talking about healthcare, 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: and you're seeing people are blaming Republicans for the shutdown, 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: and they also understand that the shutdown is about healthcare, 41 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: and I think that was exactly the goal. So I'm 42 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: actually kind of impressed. I sort of got to hand 43 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: it to Congressional and Senate Dems. You guys have messaged 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: this in a way that is resonating. Must give credit 45 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: where it is due, Jesse. 46 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: It seems that Trump and all of boxers are on 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: the defense and they're getting a little shook about this. 48 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 49 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: That tells me that the Dems are doing better than 50 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: usual because many of the times they ignore everything and 51 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: just bluster, bluster bluster. This feels more like that thing 52 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: where they're like oopside done, goofed. 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of think it worked. 54 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, well we hopefully we'll know soon because yeah, not good. Okay. 55 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: Pam Bondi on the stand today, not doing her best, 56 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: losing her shit over Epstein files. 57 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: I'm kind of obsessed with Pam Bondy losing her shit 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: over the Ebstein files. My favorite clip comes from my 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: guy from California, Adam Scheff. By the way, Adam Schiff 60 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: has really been through it, and he said some really 61 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 1: scary threats and he continues to just go for it. 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: And what he did today, which I think was really 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: successful was he read through all the questions that Pam 64 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: Bondi refused to answer, and they were questions, you know, 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: that were like, did you consult with this ethics person, 66 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: did you do this? Did you do that? And as 67 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: he read through all these questions that she refused to answer, 68 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: because remember this is an oversight committee hearing the goal 69 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: of oversight is to have oversight. As he started reading 70 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: through the questions, she became more and more combative and insane. 71 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: It was a super interesting that I thought was her 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: freaking out. And then she said, she said, you have 73 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: to apologize to President Trump. And the thing is like 74 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Republicans live in this uncanny valley where like everything is 75 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: about their leader and allegiance to their leader, but the 76 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: rest of us actually don't live in that world. So 77 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: when she was like, you're gonna need to apologize to 78 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: President Trump, it just felt so jarring and it was 79 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: a sort of amazing moment that they live on this 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: earth too, agreed. 81 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: So there's a huge swing district at Iowa that Dems 82 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: are hoping to take back with which is represented by 83 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: Iowa Rep. Marianetta Miller Meeks. Aka, mmm, I'm sure that's 84 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: what everyone around the hood calls her. Yeah, she says 85 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: she'll do town halls when health freeze is over. 86 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 1: Wait. 87 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: Why because they're running scared and they know they can't 88 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: face people after what they've done. 89 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, just wait till health insurance goes up thirty 90 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: forty fifty sixty seven percent. I mean, you think it's 91 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: bad now, you think the soybean bailout, the farmers getting 92 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: another soybean bailout. By the way, just in case you're wondering, 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: the Chinese not buying soybeans from us buying soybeans from Argentina, 94 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: a country we are currently bailing out. So if that isn't. 95 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: The art of the deal, I don't know what is. 96 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: Like. It seems to me like this is not the 97 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: art of the deal. This is the art of the whatever. 98 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what are we doing? Man? 99 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: Well, I was struck this week by the thing of 100 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: that we are having a discussion about how other countries 101 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: when they institute their fascism trying to think it through 102 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: a little bit, and ours it's just whoops, Okay, maybe 103 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: we'll reverse that. 104 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the many good things about our authoritarianism 105 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: is that it's very stupid and no one has sought 106 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: out anything. Shockingly, trump Ism continues unovated, and speaking of 107 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: not having thought through. 108 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: Things, Yeah, are you flying anytime soon? Because I'm glad 109 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: I'm not. Kevin Newsom sent some very disturbing tweets about 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: how Burbank Airport and for those who are not up 111 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: on their California geography, since I know even LA residents 112 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: sometimes don't fly into Burbank iPhone a lot since that's 113 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: the side of town. I stayed on. Burbank's a popular 114 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: airport in the northern part of Los Angeles, and it 115 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 2: had no air traffic controller for six hours on Sunday. 116 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: You might want to skip Burbank, you know. 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: Let's just remember we're skipping Newark before this, which is 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 2: the international airport. 119 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: Can I have a minute to just inject a little 120 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: personality into this, a little bit of my personal life. 121 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: Are you going to complain about how it's not the 122 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: Bob Hope Airport? 123 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: My long suffering spouse was so excited to discover deals 124 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: out of Newark that he was in and out of Newark. 125 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I don't think you're really supposed 126 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: to fly. He was like, it's so cheap, so if 127 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: you're my husband Burbank Airport. I think there are deals. 128 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: There, probably is. It's also very commune. You get in 129 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: and out so fast. I'm like lafter. 130 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: Jennifer Welsh is the host of the podcast I've Had It. 131 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Jennifer, thank you for having me. Mollie, 132 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you because I like, we've 133 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: known each other for maybe like eighteen months, does that 134 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: sound right? But what you do is so important and 135 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm just a fan, and so I'm glad that I'm 136 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: glad to get to have you on Well, I'm a 137 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: big fan of yours. My husband and. 138 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: I used to follow you on Twitter when Twitter what 139 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: we supposed to follow you, but when Twitter was Twitter, Yes, 140 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: And I remember at one point you followed my husband back. 141 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: I've been like six years ago or something. 142 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: He's like, Molly John Fast followed me back and I 143 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 3: was like. 144 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,119 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's incredible. 145 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we're miss yours. 146 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: I miss I miss like old Twitter where you could 147 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: just say stuff. But it is interesting, like we are 148 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: in this moment where we are being governed by a 149 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: body that consists almost entirely of online posters. It's insane. 150 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: I mean when I think about the governing body and 151 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: I think about like Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, jd Vance Bondie, 152 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: and we're celebrating villains. The villains are being celebrated when 153 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: we have been so primed to celebrate heroes. Yea for 154 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: the marginalized. The flip in the script is even though 155 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: it's been coming and it's tippers and the making, it 156 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: still causes whiplash because when I see people, especially I 157 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: just moved from Oklahoma, that have like Trump stickers or 158 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 3: Trump merch, I just think, I can't imagine supporting him 159 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 3: number one. But even if you were like a country 160 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: club Republican and you did it importantly, wearing the merch 161 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 3: is just a next level self owned that I just 162 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 3: am not prepared for. 163 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: When do the American people get to a moment where 164 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: they are like watching the videos of the Ice militia 165 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: breaking into people's houses with the black Hawk helicopters. I mean, 166 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: the Pritzker, the governor of Illinois, was describing what's happening 167 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: in Chicago, and I had seen some reporting of it. 168 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: The AP had something on it, but I was like, 169 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: when I saw it was like black Hawk helicopters, these 170 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: smoke bombs or whatever, these tear gas near a school. 171 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: Then Pritzker was talking about it in this press or 172 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: how they killed someone. They don't know exactly the but 173 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: you know, they killed a father of two. There's conflicting 174 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: reports about how that went down. But like this is 175 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: terrifying stuff, Like when do people start associating this with 176 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: the merch and the brand. 177 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 3: I think there's degrees of maga, and I think you 178 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 3: have the thirty percent that are cult okay, and then 179 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: you have a huge portion of the electorate that happens 180 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 3: in all fifty states. And I call these people polite 181 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: Republicans or country club Republicans. And these voters vote for 182 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: their own wallet. They feel entitled to not pay that 183 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 3: much in taxes. They believe that they are superior because 184 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: they are quote unquote job creators. And recently, a woman 185 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 3: in Oklahoma City where I used to live, I one 186 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: hundred percent she Republican her whole life, Her housekeeper, and 187 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: her housekeeper's son got deported. 188 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: Painful, excruciating tears. She loved. 189 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: This woman, had helped raise her kids, had worked in 190 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: the home for twenty years. This Republican lifelong Republicans sent 191 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: me a text message that said, thank you for all 192 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: the work you're doing to expose what they're doing to 193 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: hard working, honest immigrants. So when will it affect the 194 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: country club polite Republicans? When it affects them personally, because 195 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: we have Bill a society that values individualism over collectivism 196 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: and all of that, it's manifested into the biggest selfish 197 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 3: individual on the planet. 198 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: Trump. 199 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 3: He is a symptom of all of our worst impulses 200 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 3: as a country. 201 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it is so interesting because when and 202 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: I you know, when they had the RNC and they 203 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: had those mass deportation now placards that they were waving, 204 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: I remember thinking to myself, like, they don't understand what 205 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: this means, and the polling on it is so interesting 206 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: because it so shows how Poles misinform right. Immigration was 207 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: supposed to be a winning issue for Trump. That's why 208 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: they went so hard on it. I mean, and I 209 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: think what's interesting when you watch the ADMIN right now 210 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: is that they see they're underwater and immigration, so now 211 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: they do crime because they feel that crime is still 212 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: a little bit better, pulls a little better than ripping 213 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: apart families and sending them to countries they never lived in. 214 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that the crime thing works very 215 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 3: well with I would say what I call suburban Republican 216 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: voters who live in get communities, cookie cutter houses, and 217 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 3: they've never fallen prey to crime in their entire lives. 218 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: And the Republicans have done a very good job demonizing cities, 219 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: and they have campaigned on this and propagandized big blue 220 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: cities long before Trump that multicultural cities are where all 221 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 3: the problems are. So if you live in you know, 222 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: suburban Atlanta, suburban Oklahoma City, and you think that, oh 223 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: my god, if I go to a big city, I'm 224 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: going to fall, you know, prey to crime, it really 225 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: hits hard with them. And so the problem for me 226 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: is when are Democrats going to start flipping the script 227 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: and berating red states. 228 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: I am sitting here. 229 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: I just moved from a red state where they've had 230 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: a MAGA super majory for over sixteen years. Mollie, Oklahoma 231 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 3: ranked fiftieth in education. We used to have a governor 232 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: named Brad Henry. He was a Democrat. We were ranked 233 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 3: either fourteenth or sixteenth in education, and just sixteen years 234 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: were ranked fiftieth it is ranked fiftieth for places for 235 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: women to live, and it goes down the list. It's 236 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: a bottom five state because specifically of maga Republican policies. 237 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: And you could just go down the list, just swing 238 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: through the whole. Give give me a few of the 239 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: policies you think make Oklahoma the worst, because I'm curious 240 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: Republicans don't like to talk about policies and people tend 241 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: to tune out when Democrats talk about policy. But give 242 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: me the policies that you think have made Oklahoma the worst. 243 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 3: Well, I'm the abortion ban across the board. They have 244 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: defunded education and they scapegoat unions as a way to 245 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: do that, teachers union, right, and Democrats instead of valuing 246 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 3: and promoting teachers, and we have to be on a 247 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 3: perma campaign at all times. We had this, Uh, Superintendent 248 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 3: Ryan Walters, I'm sure you're. 249 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: Who he just resigned on, right, because can you explain 250 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: why he resigned because it wasn't because of the Trump Bibles, 251 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: or it was because of the Trump Bibles, and if so, 252 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: that's pretty fucking stupid. 253 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: Okay, So he bought the Trump Bibles. He mandated the 254 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: Ten Commandments being all of the classrooms. 255 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: Trump Bibles like talk about an oxymoron. But anyway, go on. 256 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: Yes, Then recently there was a conference call that he 257 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 3: was on a video conference call where Ryan Walters had 258 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: porn playing on the screen in the background, and this 259 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: was all over Oklahoma news. And this is the man 260 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: who's constantly like the gender mafia, teachers' unions are going 261 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: to trans your kids out, and they're wacken weeners at 262 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 3: school and they're doing all this stuff. I mean this 263 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: just constantly, this guy propagandizing you can't send your kids 264 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: to school, they're not safe because of these woke radical teachers. 265 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: And then he has this computing with porn on that. 266 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: People saw my personal theory on this, and I have 267 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: a lot of experience living in religious culture and it's 268 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: totally different. 269 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: People don't understand what the Bible Belt is like. 270 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: In the Bible Belt, people believe in spiritual warfare and 271 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: they believe it to be very real, like angels and 272 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 3: demons flying around all the time. 273 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: That's why we've actually socially. We had drinks and you 274 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: were trying to explain this to me before and I 275 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: was like, no, that can't be right. 276 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 3: No, they believe it they believe it, and so when 277 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 3: Tarp talks about in this binary language, we're good, they're evil. 278 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 3: These Bible belt people are very primed to believe that 279 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: because they've heard of their whole lives. Well, I think 280 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: a lot of these people have been religiously abused. I 281 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 3: think they suffer from religious abuse. Ryan Walters is no exception, 282 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: and I think he has a lot of suppressed sexual 283 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 3: is shoes. There's an image around the Internet from a 284 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: local blogger in Oklahoma City called the lost Ogel where 285 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: Ryan Walters is sitting with a friend and they're like 286 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: touching each other on a park bench and they have 287 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: their hands placed on each other's thighs. 288 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: Well, to me, when you know video. 289 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: Cameras are going, you're gonna be audience show. Somebody, look 290 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: at how straight I am. I'm sitting here watching this porn. 291 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: You're masking something, you know, it's the whole symptom of it. 292 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: It's also the whole thing is that you're like very religious. 293 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: So any porn, straight or gay seems I mean, as 294 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: the daughter of an erotic novelist, feels like the not 295 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: the vibe. 296 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: I think the reason they all like Trump so much 297 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 3: is because they all have secrets. At the end of 298 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 3: the day, everybody likes to screw moally, whether you like 299 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: to screw, gay screw or straight screw or self screw. 300 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 3: Everybody likes to screw right, even Bible thumbers. And it's 301 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: genetically hard. 302 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: Am I the most person conversation go on? Yeah? 303 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so a lot of they They have so 304 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 3: much shame surrounding sex. Like I remember my first boyfriend 305 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: in high school. His name was Sean. His dad was 306 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 3: a Southern Baptist preacher. Of course, we started screwing, as 307 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: high school seniors do, and his mother caught him masturbating 308 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 3: at one point, shamed the shit out of him, and 309 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: he was grounded for four months. I didn't get to 310 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: see Sean for four months because he was doing what 311 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 3: all eighteen year old kids do. 312 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: That's real, that's great, that's really bad, that's really good. 313 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 3: There is so much shame surrounding sexuality, and then if 314 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 3: you put on a bisexual tendency or homosexual then it's 315 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 3: just exacerbated. And so I think my my thing with 316 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 3: MAGA is it's a crazy Christian repressed sexual urges broken 317 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: in our child issues, and these people are running the 318 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: country I think you probably saw AOC's clip yesterday talking 319 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 3: about like that the villains are such dorks. 320 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: Like yes, yes, yes, yes, I mean that is a 321 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: good point. And that was an amazing video because then 322 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: on Fox you had what's her name showing Laura what's 323 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: you know? Laura Ingram showing a video to Stephen Miller 324 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: where AOC is talking about how he's four eleven and 325 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: you can see Stephen Miller getting more and more agitated. 326 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw that this morning, and number one, my 327 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: first takeaway was, of course they're talking about this because 328 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 3: they can't talk about the fact that Moses Mike Johnson 329 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 3: will not swear in the Housewoman from Arizona so that 330 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: they can release. 331 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: The FCN files. They're not going to talk about inflation. 332 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: Of course, he's not going to talk about healthcare because 333 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 3: he passed the largest cut to medicate in the history 334 00:18:58,760 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 3: of this country. 335 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: So of course they're talking about that. 336 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 3: And Stephen Miller and all of the other people, they 337 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: all have these really fragile egos. And could you imagine 338 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: Molly being a conservative and navigating a remote control for 339 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 3: a television You could run into Jimmy Kimmel, you could 340 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 3: run into Stephen Colbert. You could run into a cracker 341 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: barrel commercial, run into a bad bunny, you could run 342 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: into somebody that's Asian. Oh my god, everybody in this 343 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 3: sitcom is black. I mean, can you imagine how fragile 344 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 3: of an individual and what a titty baby you would 345 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 3: have to be to navigate a remote control. 346 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: It's just depigable. So let's talk about this theory that 347 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: this is, Like my optimistic theory is that we are 348 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: in the last grasps of Christian nationalism. That some of 349 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: why we got here is because America is diversifying so rapidly, 350 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: and these people are so scared and they just don't 351 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: think that they can compete in a meritocracy. Really, that's 352 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: really what this is. Do you think that's right? Or 353 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I've grown up in a completely different world 354 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: than you have, so I'm curious to know your take. Okay, 355 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: the people that. 356 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 3: Are Christian nationalists, they were raised and their culture is 357 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: the following church and being patriotic that has browbeat into them. 358 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 3: And so a part of Evangelical Christianity, which encompasses a 359 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 3: lot of different denominations, is the prosperity gospel, and people 360 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 3: believe it is their business that if somebody met you, 361 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 3: if you were growing up in Oklahoma and you were 362 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 3: a Jewish, young Jewish girl, people's parents, your peers, parents 363 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 3: would believe that it was their job to get all 364 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 3: up in your business and make sure you were saved. 365 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 3: I remember I was twelve years old. Some girls from 366 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 3: my cheerleading squad said, Jennifer, where do you go to church? 367 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 3: I said, we don't go to church, and they said 368 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 3: have you ever been saved? And I'm like, from what 369 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 3: except that Jesus Christ is your lord and personal saf here. 370 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: And it went on and on and on and still 371 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 3: into my adulthood. There is this toxic busy body that, oh, 372 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: we mind our own business about everything, but when it 373 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: comes to saving people, we have to. But if you 374 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 3: think about it's also the business model of churches to 375 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: recruit people so they can expand. So you have capitalism 376 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 3: meets Christian nationalism meets patriotism, and so they believe it 377 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 3: is their biblical duty to make the country a Christian 378 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: nationalist country. Sadly, Molly, I think that people in the 379 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: Supreme Court believe that too, and they have tried to 380 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 3: support decades. And I was always founding the Alarm in Oklahoma. 381 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: When I would host a party for some poor Democrat 382 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 3: that was running for governor or something and a host Fikagiliama, 383 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: they always fucking love this heartbreak hotel. Yeah, but I 384 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 3: would always warn my friends, they're going to come after abortion. 385 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 3: They want to be at Christian nationals. Think about all 386 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 3: these nuts that we live around, and people think, oh, no, 387 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 3: that's not going to happen. But they are very insane 388 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: and very motivated and very ambitious. 389 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so weird because you think about like sometimes 390 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: you'll see what other countries think of us, and they 391 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: are horrified. Right, Like we threw out all our scientists, 392 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: We cut all of our scientific funding, and we had 393 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, go in 394 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: and cut cancer research for children. It's like a satire 395 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: of things going wrong. Yes, and a lot of that, Like, 396 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me. 397 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 3: A lot of people, like from your vantage point, were like, 398 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 3: how can Christians be this way? For me, it doesn't 399 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 3: surprise me at all because the Christians I grew up 400 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 3: around cared about recruiting others to be in the fold. 401 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 3: But it was a conflict resist picking up the carpet, 402 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: sweeping under the rug and rolling it back down. All 403 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 3: you have to do is ask Jesus for forgiveness. Then 404 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: you're immediately forgiven. You don't have to go through any 405 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 3: process of self discovery and work on yourself. And so 406 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: to me, it makes perfect sense that the most religious 407 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: people are the most devout followers of Trump, because I 408 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 3: grew up around these people and they live in cognitive 409 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: dissonance at all times. Their preachers, you know, have a 410 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 3: couple of girlfriends or a couple of boyfriends. There's always 411 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 3: some scandal in the church, some scandal with children or whatever. 412 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: They they oh, well, he said sorry, and he went 413 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: back to the Lord, and then they just continue going 414 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 3: to these churches. So the corruption that we've seen in churches, 415 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: I think also primed the public for the corruption you 416 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 3: see in this administration. And you talk about what other 417 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 3: countries think about the United States. Even before up in Europe, 418 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: they thought we were a really religious country and they 419 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: were a very religious First world country. 420 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: But it is it's interesting because it's like we're religious, 421 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: but we're not spiritual. You know. I grew up Reformed Jewish, 422 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: really Unitarian. My stepmother's U Turhn minister. The idea the 423 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: whole goal of religion right is to connect to some 424 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: kind of spirituality. But none of this is really for that. 425 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 3: No, and and where I live, and you know, you've 426 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 3: probably seen these these people in the parking lot outside 427 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: the White House talking in tongues before they go. 428 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: We've seen that clip. No, I have not. 429 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 3: Okay, this is like a couple of months ago, Mollie. 430 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 3: So you've got like the some people that work in 431 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: the West Wing. I think it might be that nut 432 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 3: Paula White's steps. They're standing out, somebody's videoing it, somebody's 433 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: leading a prayer, they're doing the hands up, the praise 434 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: Jesus thing, and then a couple of them are standing 435 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 3: there literally speaking in tongues. And my opinion is that 436 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 3: these people have been religiously abused since birth. They have 437 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: been told you are not good, you have to be saved, 438 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 3: you were born bad. If you are not good, Satan 439 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 3: is going to torture you in hell forever. And you 440 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: start telling a three year old, four year old rights traumatic, 441 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 3: these people suffer from religious abuse. And so my thing is, 442 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 3: if we make it through this, we need to have 443 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: like universal therapy for a lot of really damaged people, 444 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 3: because we have a very damaged electorate. 445 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, among other things. Do you think trump 446 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: Ism is it sort of a religion or is it 447 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: part of the like is it which comes first the 448 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: megachurches or I mean, obviously the megachurches come first, but 449 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: are they Are they connected to each other or do 450 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: they replace each other. 451 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: I think it's the father, son, holy Spirit. I think 452 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: it's the trend. I think you have patriotism where somebody's 453 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: whole identity is being an American. And that's something that 454 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: for democracy we've had on steroids compared to other democracies. 455 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 3: This forced patriotism that America puts on people, plus religion, 456 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 3: and then now the third part of that is maggot 457 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 3: And it fits. All of those things fit so well 458 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 3: together because all of them remove what religion claims you 459 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: have is free will. But that's one of the lies 460 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: of religion, is that you have free will because they're 461 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 3: forcing you. 462 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: They're the thought police. 463 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 3: Trump is the thought police, Stephen Miller thought police. So 464 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 3: to me, all of the when I talk to people 465 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 3: like you that live on the coast or I was like, 466 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 3: how Trump's not a Christian? How do these Christians like him, 467 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 3: and I'm like, this man is an evangelical pastor to 468 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: a t. He's slick, he's a liar, he's a grifter, 469 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 3: he's the thought police. He thinks he knows better than everyone. 470 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 3: These people are primed to worship this man. And sadly, 471 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 3: Molly when he hugged the American flag. Maga has done 472 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 3: and Republicans have done such a good job saying that 473 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 3: Democrats hate the country, and these very simple statements, Democrats 474 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: hate the country, Democrats are for crime, and then you 475 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: see him hug the flag. 476 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: It hits hard. 477 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: It hits hard with simple minded people because for them, 478 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 3: critically thinking is not only painful, it's a sin. 479 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: If you ever question like. 480 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 3: Well, was Mary really a virgin? Or did Noah get 481 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 3: all those animals on the arc? I remember asked my 482 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: religious prints and they're like, that's blasphemy. 483 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: You're going to burn in hell for that. That's a sin. 484 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: So critical thinking is something punishable if you were a 485 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 3: part of this faith which think about how primed they 486 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 3: are to fall created this cult. 487 00:27:53,560 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: Maga, Yeah, oh, Jennifer, will you come back. Yes. Lisa 488 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: Graves is the former chief counsel of the Senate Judiciary 489 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: Committee and the author of Without Precedent, How Chief Justice 490 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: Roberts and his accomplices we wrote the Constitution and dismantled 491 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: our rights. Welcome to Fast Politics, Lisa Graves, Gosh, thank 492 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: you so much for having me on. Molly, delighted to 493 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: have you. So let's talk about the Roberts Court. Yeah, 494 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: so I have a new book, Yes, yes, yes, Without 495 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: Precedent about. 496 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 4: The Roberts Court, you know, every week. Although I suppose 497 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 4: at this point I'm not surprised, but we all should 498 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 4: be surprised by what this Roberts Court is doing in 499 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 4: putting its thumb on the scale of justice in favor 500 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 4: of Trump after it gave him unprecedented immunity from girl 501 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 4: prosecution last year. It's been on overdrive this year, blocking 502 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 4: well reasoned decisions by lower court judges who've been acting 503 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 4: consistent with the law, and that has really emboldened and 504 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 4: already emboldened Trump even further. 505 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: Right, So, like you should start with Thomas on precedent. Yes, 506 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: a recent bit of insane news. 507 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't queue this up, it just happened, which 508 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 4: is that this past week Clarence Thomas reportedly told a 509 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 4: group of lawyers and students that he didn't think that 510 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 4: president was really binding at all, and that the Court 511 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 4: should feel free to disregard it whenever they want. And 512 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 4: so this was a very unbelievable correct attack on what'son 513 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 4: as stereotocisis, which, as just A Sanarie O'Connor pointed out 514 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 4: long ago, is not just the principle of the Court's 515 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 4: consistency in following legal president, it also is important for 516 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 4: the legitimacy of the court. So the people don't think 517 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 4: that the law just sways based on a replacement by 518 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 4: one person or a particular person on the court. Otherwise 519 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 4: it's just a group of people in robes deciding their 520 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 4: personal views and imposing them as law. 521 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: No, it's true, So let's talk about what this court 522 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: looks like. Roberts sort of made different arguments for different 523 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: makeups of the court. I feel like i'd love you 524 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: to talk us through sort of your central argument here 525 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: on the Roberts Court. 526 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 4: You know, Roberts is the first beneficiary of the No 527 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 4: More Suitors campaign. 528 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: Explain what that means. 529 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 4: David Suiter was chosen for the US Supreme Court by 530 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 4: George Herbert Walker Bush, and he was someone who had 531 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 4: been endorsed by Republican politicians. He'd been a justice on 532 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 4: the New Hampshire Supreme Court, and when he got to 533 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 4: the court, he said he was going to follow legal precedents, 534 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 4: and he did, and that infuriated the Republican Party and 535 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 4: the Federal Society elite because they didn't want a judge 536 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 4: who was going to follow precedent. They wanted someone on 537 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 4: the court who would be a reliable vote for overturning 538 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 4: precedents they didn't like. And so that resulted in a 539 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 4: campaign called No More Suitors. It was actually sort of 540 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 4: launched at a Federal Society event in the early two thousands, 541 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 4: and John Roberts was the first beneficiary of that. He 542 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 4: was chosen for the Supreme Court because they thought he 543 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: would be a reliable vote, and in fact, insiders in 544 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 4: the George W. Bush administration said as much, including Gret Cavanaught, 545 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 4: as I noted the book, said that he could be 546 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 4: trusted on the court unlike Suitor. That's the reality, right, 547 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 4: And then you could see that play on in real 548 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 4: time because just as Robert's nomination was pending for the 549 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 4: Chief Justice position on the Court, George W. Bush appointed 550 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: or named his private lawyer, who was then the White 551 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,239 Speaker 4: House Counsel, Harriet Myers, to the court, and there was 552 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 4: an uprising by people like Robert Bork and others saying 553 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 4: that she wasn't reliable enough, it would be a failure 554 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 4: in their effort to this right wing movement to capture 555 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 4: the court, and so Bush withdrew Myers' nomination and a 556 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 4: put up Alito, and both Roberts and Alito were confirmed 557 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 4: within six months of each other as part of this 558 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 4: dark many campaign to ensure that there were no more 559 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 4: suitors on the court, meaning no more really independent judges 560 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 4: who would follow the law, follow the president, and honor 561 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 4: those rulings. 562 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Well, so. 563 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 4: That's the beginning. And then, of course we have these 564 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 4: three Trump appointees joining Thomas, Alito and Roberts and putting 565 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 4: this agenda into overdrive, culminating although it's not the end 566 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 4: of the story. In the immunity decision last year, which 567 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 4: was counter constitutional ruling to let Trump off the hook 568 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 4: for the crimes he was indicted for and to say 569 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 4: that he could not violate the coronal law if he 570 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 4: was engaged in official acts and now here he is 571 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 4: engaged in official acts, and lower courts are following the law, 572 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 4: following the statutes, the constitution, legal precedents, regulations, contracts, and 573 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 4: restraining him, issuing temporary restraining orders. And this court is 574 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 4: going out of its way not just to you know, 575 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 4: not just to basically affirm in essence, the immunity decision, 576 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 4: but to give him more than immunity from chrone prosecution, 577 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 4: to give him basically a blank check to continue these 578 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 4: extreme policies that have transgressed our laws, and to do 579 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 4: so by overturning those well reasoned decisions of lower court 580 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 4: judges and doing so in the dark night, without even 581 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 4: bothering to describe how those precedents, how those statutes are 582 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 4: no longer apparently good law. When it comes to Trump, I. 583 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: Would argue that SBA was one, even though that came 584 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: before immunity was like one of the first times where 585 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: they were like, we're just going to do it on 586 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: the docket. Because SBA was they overturned a v Wait 587 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: a year and before they really overturned ro Vweight and 588 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: they're like, we're just going to let this stand because 589 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: we don't need to explain anything to you. You owe us. 590 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 4: That's a super keen observation. This is not new behavior 591 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 4: by this Roberts Court. It has been playing this game 592 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 4: with our rights for a while now, including on the 593 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 4: right to access reproductive care, the right to access abortion. 594 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,959 Speaker 4: But also we saw that in some of the redistricting 595 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 4: cases where they allowed the twenty twenty two interm election 596 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 4: to go forward even though the maps were in violation 597 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 4: of the Voting Rights Act, that flipped the Congress to 598 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 4: the Republicans and Mike Johnson ultimately at the Helm. Then 599 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 4: they revisited those cases, and then now they're signaling that 600 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 4: they're about to do so again in terms of limiting 601 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 4: the application of what's left of the Voting Rights Act 602 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 4: after Roberts already decimated key parts of it. 603 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: For example, when I think about the Texas redistricting, a 604 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: normal Supreme COURTPS would say, no, you can't do that. 605 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, this is a case where there are 606 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 4: a couple of decisions, and I'm not going to get 607 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 4: into the weeds on it, but one of the big 608 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 4: decisions was just this last year where previously the Roberts 609 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 4: Court said, you know, we're okay with extreme partists and 610 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 4: Jerryman and the Supreme Court in the federal courts are 611 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 4: not going to do anything about it, but state courts 612 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 4: could still administer in laws around fair maps, and the 613 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 4: court assured people that it would still bar racial jerrymandering. 614 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 4: That was still forbidden, but extreme partisan jerrymandering was not. 615 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 4: Then came the South Carolina case where the Republican legislature 616 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 4: bleached black voters out of the first district in South 617 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 4: Carolina in order to basically protect Nancy Mace's seat, and 618 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 4: there was ample evidence a three judge panel finding that 619 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 4: this was done on a racial basis, and just last year, 620 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 4: the Roberts Court said, oh, well, we're not going to 621 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 4: count that as racial gerimandering because it's partisan gerimandering. So 622 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 4: you can have a racially desperate impact and even the 623 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 4: racial intent that the lower court found, and it's okay 624 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 4: as long as the purpose is to block democrats from 625 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 4: getting fair maps. 626 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: I mean, at every point this Supreme Court has been like, 627 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: we're just going to do whatever we want in the 628 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: service of grabbing power. Do you think that's right and 629 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: do you think there's I mean, this is the highest 630 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: court in the land, and they basically told us that 631 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: they are in the tank. Is there any way to 632 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: push back against. 633 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 4: This, Well, if I had an emoji, would be the 634 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 4: plus one hundred. What you said just there. Out of 635 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 4: control is a polite word for it, because it is, 636 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 4: in my view, a kind of judicial hunter, where the 637 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 4: court is just dictating these dramatic changes in the law 638 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 4: because it has the power to do so, because it 639 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 4: has the numbers, basically, and because it has the arrogance 640 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 4: to do so. So. It has no problem issuing partisan 641 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 4: ruling after partisan ruling, no desire seemingly to try to 642 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 4: make arguments that we would be persuasive to the democratics 643 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 4: appointees to the court, no seeming desire in some cases 644 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 4: to even adhere to the facts that were found below. 645 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 4: Just rewriting both the facts and the law. And this 646 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 4: is in many ways exactly what the court packing machine, 647 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 4: the court capture machine that Leonard Leo and his billionaire 648 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 4: funders wanted to put together a court that we behold 649 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 4: into their agenda above all. But we've seen that it's 650 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 4: so dangerous what this court has done because it didn't 651 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 4: just let Trump hop the hook retroactively. It basically last 652 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 4: summer paved the way for his return to power. By 653 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 4: signaling to some of the American people that Trump could 654 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 4: do no wrong and did no wrong, suggesting that the 655 00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 4: prosecutions that were legitimate prosecutions in defense of our capital 656 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 4: from the insurrection that Trump unleashed and the effort to 657 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 4: subvert the results of the twenty twenty election, that that 658 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 4: was somehow an illegitimate criminal investigation of Trump. And now 659 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 4: that Trump has been swept back into power, he has 660 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 4: basically overturned all the barriers against a president directing political prosecutions, 661 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 4: which that prosecution of Vald Trump was not a the 662 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 4: direction of Biden, was not a the direction of the 663 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 4: Attorney general mayor Garland. It was by a special counsel 664 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 4: looking at the facts and the law to determine whether 665 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 4: the case should be pursued, along with the other cases 666 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 4: against Trump that were pursued, not at the direction of 667 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 4: a president. And so here we are with this court that, 668 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 4: to say it modestly, as you point out, is out 669 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 4: of control. And what are we going to do about it? Well, 670 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 4: nothing can change in this Congress, and nothing no reform 671 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 4: would be signed by this president. But that doesn't mean 672 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 4: we don't have to come together to build a robust 673 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 4: movement to reform the Court and restore our rights, and 674 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 4: in fact, the majority of the American people get that 675 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 4: this court is out of control, is not trustworthy, is 676 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 4: not protecting our rights. Pulling out this week just shows 677 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 4: that the Court is at the same level of disapproval 678 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 4: of lack of trust, lack of public trust as it 679 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 4: was in twenty twenty two in the immediate aftermath of 680 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 4: the Dobbs ruling and the revelations of investigative reporters of 681 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 4: the corruption that has engulfed the Roberts Court. 682 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: There used to be a time when Roberts cared about polling, 683 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: or pretended to care about palling. 684 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 4: Well, he was, in my view, and what the book 685 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 4: describes as how he had taken this very patient view 686 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 4: toward this revolution so as not to jolt the public 687 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 4: into action or reaction. That's part of his description of 688 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 4: one of his concerns of quickly overturning precedents. I think that, 689 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 4: you know, so he was methodically saying, I've got a 690 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 4: lifetime appointment. I'm going to take my time and just 691 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 4: you can see the slates of cases. One year it's 692 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 4: political election cases like Citizens United. Another year it's voting rights, 693 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 4: they're going to take that on and start to dismantling it. 694 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: Another year. 695 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 4: You know, it's abortion they're going to another year, they're 696 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 4: going to advance religious rights as a sword to attack 697 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 4: anti discrimination less. So they've been acting like they have 698 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 4: a slate of political issues that he's taking on methodically. 699 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 4: But I think what happened is that after the trumpet 700 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 4: point he's got in the court, he had no real 701 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 4: reason to go slow anymore. And in fact, if he 702 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 4: pick up the pace, he might be left behind and 703 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 4: not exert the maximum power on the court. And so 704 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 4: I think in that sense, in some ways, it really 705 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 4: reveals Robert's true roots, which are he started as a 706 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 4: Reagan revolutionary in the Reagan administration, one of the hardliners 707 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 4: trying to move the law to the right, even beyond 708 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 4: you know, Reagan's campaign appearances, his anti civil rights rhetoric 709 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 4: over two decades and more. And so Roberts now has 710 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 4: the majority he needs to construct that Reagan revolution, that 711 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 4: very right wing regressive movement that dates back to Barry 712 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 4: Goldwater and his predecessors, and to do it from the bench. 713 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 4: And I think that that's the legacy he wants, not 714 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 4: the legacy of having wide respect by the American people 715 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 4: as a whole, but by being the man who delivers 716 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 4: on those revolutionary promises. 717 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I know is the off ramp? Protests is 718 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: the off ramp? Polling is the off ramp. There is 719 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: no off ramp. What is the off ramp? Here? Is? 720 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: Does he read the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal? Like, 721 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: if you're looking at Trump as a you see that 722 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 1: the only way that Trump responds is to the market. 723 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: So if the stock market creators, Trump will start doing 724 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: things like what is the off ramp for this? 725 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 4: Well, the Walls Journal ed page has already been weaponized 726 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 4: basically against Roberts. When he was trying to allow that 727 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 4: decision of the abortion restriction to proceed without overtly overturning Row, 728 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 4: they attacked him. It's not as though they're going to 729 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 4: attack him now. I think, although you know, obviously there 730 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 4: have been some differences that the ed page has indicated 731 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 4: about Trump, but the reality is that I don't think 732 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 4: that guides Roberts. I think you're right that if there 733 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 4: were more of a business reaction, maybe a case that 734 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 4: implicates those interests could go the other way. We might 735 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 4: see that ultimately on tariff. But on the other hand, 736 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 4: what we've seen is that it seems like Wall Street 737 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 4: has done three things. One is it has enriched itself 738 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 4: under Trump. Two, in some ways it has priced in 739 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 4: the chaos of the tariffs in essence by you know, 740 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 4: some of the ways that some of the ways that 741 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 4: it is envisioning the broader global economy in terms of 742 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 4: what's going to happen globally. And Third, it has in 743 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 4: my view, embraced this sort of taco meme that Trump 744 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 4: always chickens out when it comes to that part of 745 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 4: the agenda, that he just wants to get something, get 746 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 4: some praise, look like he has a win, but he's 747 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 4: not going to actually follow through on, for example, the ridiculous, 748 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,439 Speaker 4: seemingly AI generated tariffs that he announced on the White 749 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 4: House lawn this spring. 750 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: The tariff case so is a really interesting case because 751 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: it's the Supreme Court's real patrons versus Donald Trump. 752 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that that's the case where the amicus 753 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 4: briefs are coming in against his assertion of this tariff 754 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 4: power from the billionaire Charles Koch's back groups, saying, you know, 755 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 4: clearly the Constitution vests the tariff power with Congress and 756 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,720 Speaker 4: the President can't do this unilaterly. And so it's possible 757 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 4: that in that particular case, ultimately on the merits, not 758 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 4: in this temporary sort of impoundment zone where they're allowing 759 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 4: Trump to redirect funds that Congress is appropriated that have 760 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 4: been signed into law by President, but that they may 761 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 4: in this area say no, just as the shadow docket 762 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 4: order today where the Roberts Court said it's not going 763 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 4: to allow him. 764 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: To fire Lisa Cook. 765 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, fire's Cook. But they allowed him to fire you know, 766 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 4: member of fifty. 767 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: Right, everyone else, but Lisa Cook is my stocks right. 768 00:42:58,600 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 769 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 4: So when it comes to like the the federal reserve 770 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 4: or perhaps maximizing terre of policy, that that's those those 771 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 4: are two areas where maybe the Court could be counted 772 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 4: on to not go along with Trump. But that is 773 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 4: precious little for the rest of the rest of us. 774 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,959 Speaker 1: That's a complete fucking disaster. I mean, I'm not saying 775 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: it's good, but you know, they did say we're not 776 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: going to let you fire Lisa Cook, and then they 777 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: said you can't fire Lisa Cook for now, right right? 778 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 4: Well, And the other part is, you know, I think 779 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 4: that Roberts is so calculating that. Look, with Jerown Powell's 780 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 4: tenure up in May and the other vag it's pending, 781 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 4: Trump could get a majority and get control of that 782 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 4: the seven member board that really sets monetary policy for 783 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 4: the Fed, without the Roberts Court helping him. So I 784 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 4: think it's just one of these sort of log rolling 785 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 4: by some time situation and May and they may not 786 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,360 Speaker 4: necessarily give him the approval the fire in that one 787 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 4: singular agent. 788 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Lisa Grave's such a disaster. Hey, you for coming on, Molly. 789 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 4: I have to tell you I'm still hopeful because hope 790 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 4: is a choice. And if we give in or give up, 791 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 4: these regressive measures will continue and will worsen. But if 792 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 4: we don't give in, and we don't give up, we 793 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,240 Speaker 4: do have a chance of building the effort to reform 794 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 4: this court and restore our freedoms. Thank you Aale, Thanks Molly, 795 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 4: thanks for having me on. 796 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: No more perfectly Jesse Cannon. 797 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 2: Really, I personally, you know, it's been my thing that 798 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 2: I've been very mad about democratic collecteds and what they're 799 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 2: doing lately. And here's gonna be my bone and a 800 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 2: few to break here again. The fact that we are 801 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 2: not raging about Mike Johnson seating Adelita Grijalva after her election. 802 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 2: I think that they should be throwing fits outside the 803 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 2: Republican Caucus every day over this. 804 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, or why not some kind of sit in about this? 805 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: You know, like why is it not happening? I think 806 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: that's a real question. 807 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 2: Well, I think we know why it's not happening, which 808 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 2: is that Trump had best friend whose name is Jeffrey Epstein. 809 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Correct, and that, my friends, is our moment of fuckory. 810 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: Mike Johnson refusing to swear in an Arizona member of 811 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 1: Congress because he does not want to release the Epstein files. 812 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 813 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 814 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 815 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 816 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.