Speaker 1: Break that down a little more energetic versus genital.
Speaker 2: If I'm dating a woman that mostly has dated men
Speaker 2: and she is into energetics, she's having a very similar experience,
Speaker 2: I'm still her boyfriend. Like that's really how I feel,
Speaker 2: and it's just so apparent, like I'm always some woman's
Speaker 2: dumb husband.
Speaker 1: You know what we do here destroy shame around sex
Speaker 1: by talking about sex. Now, let me tell you something messy. Okay,
Speaker 1: So you know I always tell y'all, don't look at
Speaker 1: dick in its eye unless you want to get a
Speaker 1: sty you know, don't look at dick iness eye unless
Speaker 1: you want to ste because you know, I think I've
Speaker 1: said this. You know, I had a friend who looked
Speaker 1: a dick in the eye and they got les die.
Speaker 1: And so ever since, I've learned don't look at it.
Speaker 1: But I you know, sometimes you need to take your
Speaker 1: own fucking advice. And I almost I almost fucked up, y'all.
Speaker 1: I did so last weekend, I was with my partner.
Speaker 1: We were hanging out and we were, you know, we
Speaker 1: were stroking. We were having some good times. So I'm
Speaker 1: laying on my back and he's on top of me,
Speaker 1: and he's stroking and I swear to you, he's like
Speaker 1: he's he's on an angle, so he's not like completely
Speaker 1: straddled on me. He's like straddled on one leg and
Speaker 1: he's angled. So if you're thinking about the dick, the
Speaker 1: dick isn't looking directly at me. It's like over my shoulder,
Speaker 1: maybe a little pass. Well if my eye is the
Speaker 1: ninety degree, ooh, I don't like math like this. It's
Speaker 1: that forty five degrees. Is that correct? Either way? Either way,
Speaker 1: it's not directly at me. So I'm just marveling at
Speaker 1: the dick, because you know, sometimes you see a dick
Speaker 1: as beautiful as hard your partner's stroking, You're like, damn,
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful dick, or that's a beautiful volver, and
Speaker 1: that's a gorgeous ass, and you just want to marvel
Speaker 1: at it. And that's what was happening. He was stroking it,
Speaker 1: and I was just marveling. I was like, em, dick
Speaker 1: is beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's so pretty. I want to
Speaker 1: name it. I want to call it a name. I
Speaker 1: want to pet it. It's so pretty. And so I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm not thinking, hey, don't look it in the eye.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not thinking, you know, you're gonna get a stye.
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, wow, such a pretty dick. And so
Speaker 1: he's stroking and I'm stroking. And usually I can tell
Speaker 1: when he's about to come one either he'll say it,
Speaker 1: but like his face, you know, okay, everyone knows. You
Speaker 1: know your partner. When that face goes a little shifty,
Speaker 1: the eyes go a little to the left, a little
Speaker 1: to the right at the same time, not looking at
Speaker 1: the same place at the same time, you know something
Speaker 1: about to happen. So usually I'm able to uh pre
Speaker 1: empt the come so that I can protect my eyes.
Speaker 1: But I was not focusing on his face. I was
Speaker 1: focusing on that dick. And so suddenly all I hear
Speaker 1: is whoosh, and my eyes immediately close. I was like
Speaker 1: close the eyes reflexes, it down like like power Rangel reflexes.
Speaker 1: Bitch closed, okay, Mortal Kombat closed. And sure enough that
Speaker 1: whoosh was the sound of his his com It was
Speaker 1: like it was it wooshed by me because it's on
Speaker 1: that forty five angle, so wooshed by me like by
Speaker 1: my ear and hit the wall. But as it wooshed
Speaker 1: by me, a little goop got on my eyelash, and
Speaker 1: I saw that thing coming at me, which is why
Speaker 1: coming at me. I saw the cum coming at me,
Speaker 1: and that's why I closed my eye because I did
Speaker 1: not want to get the side. But I was so
Speaker 1: close to getting the side. But yes, it wooshed by me.
Speaker 1: I got a stray, a little bit of that goop.
Speaker 1: Is that what she calls a goop, Gwyneth? Is that
Speaker 1: why she calls a goop?
Speaker 2: Because she sat about come?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, Why does she call it goop? Is
Speaker 1: that her nickname? Anyways? This for us, goop means a
Speaker 1: little bit of a little bit of the sticky icky,
Speaker 1: just like hit my eyelash. And they kept going and I,
Speaker 1: you know, we were both in shock, more so med
Speaker 1: than him because I famously I told you I don't
Speaker 1: I don't shoot massive loads like that. Like I give
Speaker 1: you a nice little you know, on a good day.
Speaker 1: On a good day, I might give you a little distance.
Speaker 1: On a good day, I might give you a little
Speaker 1: fifty meters distance. I don't even know what math is,
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, Like the fifty yard line.
Speaker 1: I might give you that on a good day. But
Speaker 1: most of the time, you know, it's just a little
Speaker 1: it's oh, it's a little it's a little drizzle, you know,
Speaker 1: But my partner, it's a torrential downpour. And it has distance,
Speaker 1: it's it's it has velocity. Wow, I'm using I'm literally
Speaker 1: digging up so many mathematical and scientific words from ninth grade. Okay,
Speaker 1: it has velocity, okay. And so like literally the wind,
Speaker 1: the gust that that come flew by me was jarring
Speaker 1: and shocking, and so we like, you know, we wiped
Speaker 1: you know, I wiped my face off. But I'm nervous
Speaker 1: that a little bit that goop got into my eye
Speaker 1: and my eye is twitching, the left eye is twitching,
Speaker 1: just a touch, just touch. And I was certain that
Speaker 1: I closed it in time, but you know, I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure for like a little bit. This is way too much,
Speaker 1: too many details, but I'm gonna give you anyway, A
Speaker 1: little bit of that goop was on the eyelash, and
Speaker 1: was afraid maybe a little bit of that goop dripped
Speaker 1: in from the eyelash into the eye. So I immediately grabbed
Speaker 1: some eye drops and then I got a little bit
Speaker 1: of water in my hand. I cleaned out my eye
Speaker 1: and I tried to play cool because I was trying
Speaker 1: to be sexy. I was trying to be I wasn't
Speaker 1: trying to be like motherfucker. Because also I had to
Speaker 1: be a camera the next day because I had to
Speaker 1: do the E show, the recap of the Grammy, so
Speaker 1: I had to be on camera the next day. And
Speaker 1: I if I if I got a sty or if
Speaker 1: my if I got pink eye from come in my eye,
Speaker 1: Like what was I gonna say? Ahrner came in my eye,
Speaker 1: and I was so enamored by the dick I didn't
Speaker 1: look away, and like I could, I it was just
Speaker 1: too stressful. It's too stressful, So I put the eye
Speaker 1: drops in and you know, me and and Bunn are
Speaker 1: cuddling and whatnot, and I'm trying to just like stay
Speaker 1: calm and breathe. But I am afraid I'm gonna wake
Speaker 1: up with just a puffy eye. But luckily I woke
Speaker 1: up and everything was fine, thank goodness. So I did
Speaker 1: not get the sty. But I just want to remind
Speaker 1: you to take my advice. Heed my warning. Don't look
Speaker 1: at dick in his eye unless you want to get
Speaker 1: a sty, even if the dick is on a forty
Speaker 1: five degree angle. It's too it's too far, like it
Speaker 1: needs to be fully uh one eighty away. Nope, it
Speaker 1: needs to be it needs to be ninety degrees the
Speaker 1: other way completely, it needs to be. You need to
Speaker 1: be behind it. Okay, you need to be behind If
Speaker 1: you are not behind the dick, you don't know what
Speaker 1: the winds can do. Because at forty five, I'm swear
Speaker 1: to you it was off an angle. But when it
Speaker 1: shot and the velocity with which it shot and the
Speaker 1: wind must have just you know, threw it back towards
Speaker 1: the ninety it was a it was a lot. It
Speaker 1: was it was a lot. By the way, welcome to
Speaker 1: the show. This is tell me something messy. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Brandon Cogoban. Some people call me messy mom, but you
Speaker 1: could call me Velocity goop. Ooh, that's actually a dope
Speaker 1: ass dragon name Velocity group or welcome to this Velocity goop.
Speaker 1: Wait wait I'm cooking. Wait wait I'm cooking.
Speaker 2: Wait wait I'm cooking.
Speaker 1: I hate that. Okay, I hate that up. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: By the way, if you are having a time here,
Speaker 1: if you enjoy being here, do me a favor, do
Speaker 1: us a favor. We are in the middle of really
Speaker 1: trying to continue to grow the show and build this show.
Speaker 1: And what helps is if you rate, review and subscribe,
Speaker 1: so you can rate the show, give us the five stars.
Speaker 1: You can review the show, just say I love it, baby.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to the show so that you never
Speaker 1: miss out on an episode. It helps. It helps. And
Speaker 1: of course sharing the show, posting about it on your
Speaker 1: social which I see y'all doing, Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: sending it to somebody, whether it's your partner or your
Speaker 1: friends who you think would enjoy it. Just all of it,
Speaker 1: all of it helps. And I'm just so grateful for you,
Speaker 1: grateful that you're here a week after week, Grateful for
Speaker 1: all of you who are new here. If this is
Speaker 1: your first episode, what a wild way to enter into
Speaker 1: this episode. But I'm happy you're here, and I just
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for all of you. So thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Baby. You know what that means.
Speaker 1: It is time for a guest And while they get situated,
Speaker 1: I have some fabulous news to tell you. Our podcast
Speaker 1: told me something MESSI has been nominated for a Queerity Award.
Speaker 1: If you don't know what that is, it is exactly
Speaker 1: what you think it is. It is an award that
Speaker 1: celebrates all things queer, and we are alongside some incredible
Speaker 1: and incredible incredible queer podcasts. So you can vote every
Speaker 1: day from now until February twenty fifth, and I hope
Speaker 1: you do so that we can win our little award. Period.
Speaker 1: We'll put the link in the show notes. Okay, so again,
Speaker 1: you can vote every day from now until February twenty
Speaker 1: fifth to help tell me something messy when its first award.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so excited. Okay, now, let us
Speaker 1: do our hoe manifest stow repeat after me aloud or
Speaker 1: in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame,
Speaker 1: the courage to heal, the wisdom to that sex is
Speaker 1: not just about penetration, The audacity to advocate for my
Speaker 1: pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not call my ex
Speaker 1: that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck bay, for it
Speaker 1: is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to
Speaker 1: let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let the community say,
Speaker 1: oh helujah, I am so excited to have Er fight
Speaker 1: Master on the show. Er fight Master is a non
Speaker 1: binary actor, writer, comedian, musician, and LGBTQ plus advocate. Their
Speaker 1: solo music venture, fight Master blends elements of alternative rock
Speaker 1: and indie folk, pulling influences from greats like Fleetwood, Mac,
Speaker 1: The Runaways, and Todd Rugren. They currently have two EPs
Speaker 1: available for streaming, Violence and Bloodshed Baby. With lyrics that
Speaker 1: playfully comment on concepts like toxic masculinity, mental health, and love.
Speaker 1: Fight Master finds the perfect balance between edgy and energetic,
Speaker 1: but also sensual and tender. Their acting work includes two
Speaker 1: seasons on both Hulu's and ABC's Gray's Anatomy, and most recently,
Speaker 1: they served as a writer on Michelle Bhuteau's Netflix survival
Speaker 1: of the Thickest Ah We Love It Er goes By.
Speaker 1: They them pronouns, y'all please help me, Welcome Eer, fight Mastery. Hello,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm great?
Speaker 1: How are you I'm doing well? Before you get started off,
Speaker 1: we'll give you these messy mandates and then we can
Speaker 1: like go into the full key chaing. Okay, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so things get to be on processed. Any thoughts or
Speaker 1: opinions shared have the right to evolve, shift, or change today, tomorrow,
Speaker 1: ten years from now, and if during the Kiki something
Speaker 1: feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use the safe
Speaker 1: word foosball, which gives us the chance to pause, pivot,
Speaker 1: and address accordingly.
Speaker 2: That's so nice, yeah, right, which is like.
Speaker 1: A little framework because we'll be talking messy shit and
Speaker 1: I like to make sure everyone feels safe while we
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: I love that you said the thing about your your
Speaker 2: opinion in reviews on these things can change today or
Speaker 2: in ten years. Yeah, I was just talking to I
Speaker 2: went to a fan convention in London. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: am like still thinking about an answer to a question
Speaker 2: where literally the next day I felt differently. Ah. They
Speaker 2: were like, what are you, like, what are you consuming
Speaker 2: right now basically in order to be an artist? And
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not consuming anything right now because
Speaker 2: I feel like I want to be I want to
Speaker 2: really be like tuning in with me.
Speaker 1: Yes, I get that.
Speaker 2: And then the very next day I was reading a
Speaker 2: friend's script and I was like, I feeling so I
Speaker 2: feel so like inspired by consuming this art. And I
Speaker 2: had just told these kids like, if you really want
Speaker 2: to get in touch with you, like, take a break
Speaker 2: from all. Literally the next day it was different, and
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I lied.
Speaker 1: It's not a lie. I feel like it's like ebbs
Speaker 1: and flows, and like some days we're this way and
Speaker 1: the next day were another way, and I feel like
Speaker 1: we This is why I made that rule because I
Speaker 1: used to teach. I was to be fancy. I was
Speaker 1: an adjunct professor I Want You for like a year.
Speaker 1: So I was teaching sing the freshman and it was
Speaker 1: a self scripting class, so they would like write. I
Speaker 1: would have them journal at the top of the class
Speaker 1: and they would create pieces based off of, you know,
Speaker 1: lived experiences. But a lot of them were afraid to journal,
Speaker 1: and I discovered it was because they were afraid of
Speaker 1: their opinions changing and being held to what they had written.
Speaker 1: And it was like, oh, I get that, Like it's
Speaker 1: scary to write something down because you don't want somebody
Speaker 1: to look at it in twenty years and be like
Speaker 1: you said it. And so it's like we're humans. We're
Speaker 1: allowed to say shit and change our mind and evolve,
Speaker 1: and that is what the show's about.
Speaker 2: I mean, I do get it because I I was like,
Speaker 2: I had a mandatory journal when I was a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and for like a school projector Okay, and now I'm
Speaker 2: absolutely humiliated by it and so your class was right.
Speaker 1: Right, that's the techaway, do not journal? Shall we play
Speaker 1: a lube breaker?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, beautiful. So we're going to play a game called
Speaker 1: spatial Paths. Have you ever heard it?
Speaker 2: I made it up myself, that's impossible, and invented this.
Speaker 1: I invented this game. Okay, smash or pass? Sex in
Speaker 1: the woods?
Speaker 2: Are we inside like a cabin?
Speaker 1: Oh? Interesting? Maybe I get I guess. I mean I
Speaker 1: see it as like in the wilderness. That's how I
Speaker 1: pitch it.
Speaker 2: No, and.
Speaker 1: They don't even say.
Speaker 2: Like past, no, no, no here. But here's why. I
Speaker 2: just I don't know. I just I just.
Speaker 1: It's a pass for me. You're safe, Okay, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is face go ahead. I famously do not fun with nature.
Speaker 2: That's it. Like, I actually fuck with nature really hard.
Speaker 2: But I think that the horny part about fucking. I
Speaker 2: go on a lot of trips with my girlfriendly go
Speaker 2: to like the woods. We spend time in the woods,
Speaker 2: and then we go ravage each other in a cabin.
Speaker 1: And a cabin you said, I like the four walls,
Speaker 1: like the roof.
Speaker 2: I do like I like that.
Speaker 1: Like the rug, I like the central air, I like
Speaker 1: god gave us. We built that, I might as well
Speaker 1: use that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to be fair, do you want to like
Speaker 2: deer fucking in your cabin?
Speaker 1: I don't know, don't there? Yeah, that's two. They're not
Speaker 1: in my home? Fucking Am I in their home? To that?
Speaker 1: You like, don't fuck in the ocean either, right, Like
Speaker 1: that's their.
Speaker 2: Home if you are fucking in the ocean.
Speaker 1: God bless. I don't like fuking in the shower.
Speaker 2: No, thank you for saying that. Being that gas lit? Absolutely,
Speaker 2: do you want the water to take away all the
Speaker 2: lube and then you want to and you want.
Speaker 1: To slip and falling? TV shows and movies where people
Speaker 1: I haven't hot sex.
Speaker 2: In the shower. No, No, I'm trying.
Speaker 1: To be here by myself. Leave me alone.
Speaker 2: And even even the railing in the shower is like
Speaker 2: reminiscent of some kind of like life alert. There's something
Speaker 2: sexy about this.
Speaker 1: I don't find it sexy at all.
Speaker 2: I don't there's a pube down here.
Speaker 1: No, you're like, this is a lead. I'm with you there, Listen.
Speaker 1: There's an exception to every rule. But I I once
Speaker 1: you start like like we can get sexy in the shower,
Speaker 1: show together. We watch each other now, but once we
Speaker 1: start fucking, it's like the water. It's like the water
Speaker 1: is getting in your face, it's getting in my mouth,
Speaker 1: it's wiping off the loop.
Speaker 2: No, my hair is starting to look stupid.
Speaker 1: We are looking crazy in this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: And also sorry, most of the time, only one of
Speaker 2: you is in the waters, like one of.
Speaker 1: You is like shivering.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's it's so silly. And I'm not watching.
Speaker 2: I don't watch anything. I've had enough sex in my
Speaker 2: life now that when I watch movies and they start
Speaker 2: to fucking the shower and I know we're supposed to
Speaker 2: be like checking out. Oh hell yeah, I'm started like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's so silly. Just move to the bed,
Speaker 2: Just go to the bed. God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the bathroom in the bedroom.
Speaker 2: My guess is it's same room.
Speaker 1: Like literally it's a couple of feet away. Come on,
Speaker 1: I'm with you, okay. This one is smash your pass
Speaker 1: ass cheek biting mmm.
Speaker 2: If that ass looking like it need a bite, it
Speaker 2: has to be bited. So that's a smash for me.
Speaker 2: My I I don't know if you know this about me.
Speaker 2: I got I literally was thinking about a but cheek
Speaker 2: and I got hot enough to take this off. I'm
Speaker 2: so I'm so into I can't like to ask.
Speaker 1: I am so talk about ass for a moment. Are listening, Yeah,
Speaker 1: please please take your time. You do that and I
Speaker 1: will begin the conversession. There are so many people out
Speaker 1: here who love ass, and this is let's call this
Speaker 1: the ass corner where we can just like marvel about
Speaker 1: what is it about ass that like really speaks to you,
Speaker 1: thinks to your soul.
Speaker 2: It's it's perfect. It's just a perfect little treat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can rest your head on it. My
Speaker 1: oh my god. I love laying on.
Speaker 2: Ass and as like someone like I did you know there?
Speaker 2: I love a beautiful aesthetic experience, and I think that
Speaker 2: someone was like a perfect little bubble. Ass is like
Speaker 2: God's specific gift to me. God said, you are a
Speaker 2: little treat. I love it. I I I There are
Speaker 2: so many fights I can with my partner where I
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know this, I swear to God and
Speaker 2: then she like turns around to walk away. Hey, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I was really.
Speaker 1: Such a I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whoa, whoa, calm down. She was dumping away in
Speaker 2: her little butt.
Speaker 1: She just like, my bad, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you lost my belonging. Yeah, that's real, t ass.
Speaker 1: Really, when I see my boyfriend's ass or my husband's ass,
Speaker 1: I really it calms me down. It's like a it's
Speaker 1: like a little teddy, a little safety blanket, just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like how it jiggles.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I've famously been working on my ass because I famously
Speaker 1: had the smaller ass of my friend.
Speaker 2: Group. Your whole bodies beautiful, Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've been I've been eating and squatting and stair stepper ring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that the secret?
Speaker 1: The secret is a stair supper that'll do everything. The squats,
Speaker 1: but like the stair stepper, it sucks. But like all
Speaker 1: that climbing is really what builds the incline. That's what
Speaker 1: I've learned. Even the treadmill. You can treadmill incline.
Speaker 2: I my friend told me recently, and I think it's
Speaker 2: the truest thing that's ever been said. He told me
Speaker 2: I have an eighties ass and seventies tits, and I
Speaker 2: what does that mean? We were literally talking about Playboy
Speaker 2: And actually, because I've been gifted without asking, I've been
Speaker 2: gifted a lot of playboys.
Speaker 1: Wow, and what do you think that's about? I have
Speaker 1: some of the questions.
Speaker 2: I think people are just like, you're you're a dumb
Speaker 2: like slut. Four women, you're gonna love this. And I
Speaker 2: was looking at these like these they're all from like
Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties, and frankly, like there, I knew
Speaker 2: exactly what he meant when he said, I'm not like
Speaker 2: a big asked person, but I've got it like a
Speaker 2: cute little eighties and it's never gonna change in size.
Speaker 2: It's I played volleyball, I played basketball, I played college ball,
Speaker 2: but never changed. But it always he's there. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: the and the titties are just absolutely serving seventies, like
Speaker 2: they're just like I can't expland it. There are tits
Speaker 2: and there are jugs, and then there's I'm giving you
Speaker 2: a mug. Okay, got it? And I am looking for
Speaker 2: the very opposite of my bill.
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want it at all. Yeah, I like
Speaker 2: I like a little titty and a big bad ass.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, Okay, I love it. I love it. This
Speaker 1: is so I feel so Uh. I was gonna say
Speaker 1: I feel so, but but I just feel I feel
Speaker 1: understood in ways, or I feel like I understand you better.
Speaker 1: I don't know. My heart is really open and the
Speaker 1: moment I want that on a T shirt. By the way,
Speaker 1: you won the game, you won, you win. We don't
Speaker 1: have money here, but you win my unconditional love and
Speaker 1: I do love you. Wait, you brought me a book.
Speaker 1: Do you want to tell me about the book that
Speaker 1: you brought me?
Speaker 2: So I've been bringing this to queer people that I
Speaker 2: think are making a difference and are responsible for making
Speaker 2: a difference. And this book is called The Communism of
Speaker 2: Love and it's by Richard gilman Opalski, who I just
Speaker 2: absolutely love. He's like an anarcho communist writer. And here
Speaker 2: you go. And I think it's just our responsibility as
Speaker 2: queer public figures and thinkers to be responsible for imagining
Speaker 2: a new future for our community and for each other.
Speaker 2: And this, this mode of being that we're currently in
Speaker 2: is not working. And even the motive being of and
Speaker 2: I'll say this now a post vote, because it was
Speaker 2: not I did not want to be negative before the vote. Yeah,
Speaker 2: even the mode of being of like just go vote
Speaker 2: like no, Actually, the system is broken beyond the vote. Yes,
Speaker 2: and there's so much work that we have to do,
Speaker 2: and I know that can be really overwhelming, and that's
Speaker 2: why I'm like constantly trying to take in information about
Speaker 2: almost like about like queer utopia. Yeah, and people will
Speaker 2: check out of talking about utopia because they're like, but
Speaker 2: that will never happen. It's not sure we're never gonna
Speaker 2: have utopia. But we can push the boundaries of our minds,
Speaker 2: uh huh, so that we can synthesize ideas and then
Speaker 2: bring them to our community and say, what about this.
Speaker 1: I A this is you are a gift from God, honestly,
Speaker 1: and you know, to me, God is a beautiful black
Speaker 1: trans woman. Because I was thinking yesterday, I was, you know,
Speaker 1: you know how a lot of our approaches are outdated
Speaker 1: or need to be updated, and it's like, well, what
Speaker 1: does that look like? Because if we you know, I
Speaker 1: was saying that now that the vote has happened, there
Speaker 1: is a sense of relief because I'm no longer bracing
Speaker 1: for it. The worst quote unquote can get worse, but
Speaker 1: like the worst that we were bracing for has happened,
Speaker 1: and so now my brain goes, well, what are the
Speaker 1: what are the solutions? And I don't actually think we
Speaker 1: have them already. I think that, like I've been saying,
Speaker 1: like I feel like I need to like travel and
Speaker 1: read and go talk to other societies, other civilizations, other cultures,
Speaker 1: and like what do y'all do, because it's like I
Speaker 1: don't know if we have I want to say this respectfully,
Speaker 1: but it's just like what we think we should be
Speaker 1: doing to make a better change is not happening. The
Speaker 1: soil is bad.
Speaker 2: It is bad. And the favorite thing that I've read recently,
Speaker 2: and this was in a a book called The Solutions
Speaker 2: Are Already Here by this Dutch writer, and he is
Speaker 2: he's writing about the environment, and he is saying, you know,
Speaker 2: we are more trained to be able to think about
Speaker 2: the end of the world, yeah, than the end of capitalists.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: We are literally like I guess the world's gonna end
Speaker 2: because we just can't get out of this capitalist system. Baby,
Speaker 2: we are the capitalist system. And so I think even
Speaker 2: this like call to vote, of course, you know, I
Speaker 2: wanted kamalots win. That is what I wanted. If we
Speaker 2: are choosing between these two, I wanted Kamaloatin. I think
Speaker 2: that there would have been something really powerful, especially about
Speaker 2: having a black woman in that shair. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but we're voting inside of an electoral that the electoral
Speaker 2: system is not working. This is not a vote per person, right,
Speaker 2: and so if we want it to be a democracy,
Speaker 2: we have to do a vote per person. I don't
Speaker 2: care that Montana has four hundred people in it. Montana
Speaker 2: should not. And I know they're like, well that's why
Speaker 2: Montana has four in California has fifty. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no. I want everyone to have a vote. I
Speaker 2: want everyone to have a vote, and right now we don't.
Speaker 2: And so telling people to vote in a system that
Speaker 2: is rigged for the Republicans is is an opiate? Yeah,
Speaker 2: And then when your vote doesn't work, you're like, oh man,
Speaker 2: the system maybe it is broke. Yeah, and who's supposed
Speaker 2: to fix it. We have this idea of like us
Speaker 2: versus them. It's like, well, they they've broken the system.
Speaker 2: The system is so bad. The system is people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's us. We went to school with these fuckers. I
Speaker 2: just saw fucking Ted Cruise in real life. He's the
Speaker 2: ugliest little worm bitch from your high school. You know.
Speaker 1: Rob DeSantis was a history teacher at my high school.
Speaker 1: In my freshman year, not crazy. He was like in
Speaker 1: my dorms. And then when I saw when I saw
Speaker 1: that Ron whatever, Roy whatever, when I saw that what
Speaker 1: was happening in Florida, and my one of my high
Speaker 1: school besties messaged me, She's like, did you see. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's the same crazy, crazy, crazy crazy.
Speaker 2: The meanest weirdo, the meanest bad guy from your is
Speaker 2: now like deciding what you do with your ovaries and
Speaker 2: all the shit, And I don't know that, to me,
Speaker 2: is not a system that's working. No, you're right, Ted
Speaker 2: Cruise is the joke of the nation and he's still
Speaker 2: the representative of Texas.
Speaker 1: Again, well that's what I'm you know. And that's what
Speaker 1: I had said just in general about the election itself,
Speaker 1: which was even just having to choose between these two
Speaker 1: tells me everything I need to know about the country
Speaker 1: that we're in. The fact that this guy has the
Speaker 1: second chance tells me everything. And like like Kamala deserved
Speaker 1: to be up against somebody that was an equal, you know.
Speaker 1: It was like, Oh, it's like, oh, I want to
Speaker 1: get into the nitty gritty of what our country needs,
Speaker 1: but right now I'm just choosing between like a the
Speaker 1: racist and the not racist, and it's like that's not enough,
Speaker 1: Like racism is bad. But but you know what it
Speaker 1: made me think about because we saw each other when
Speaker 1: we were striking. I think shortly before you and I
Speaker 1: saw each other, there was a video that came out
Speaker 1: with one of the studio heads who was like, the
Speaker 1: writers were asking for too much, and it hit me.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this actually isn't about right or wrong.
Speaker 1: If you're looking at right or wrong. Yeah, the writers, workers,
Speaker 1: people deserve more money, that's right, But this is about power.
Speaker 1: And so I feel I'm feeling that way about the
Speaker 1: country as well. It's like, oh, it's not about who's
Speaker 1: right or wrong the Kamala and Donald platforms. It's clear
Speaker 1: who's right and who's wrong. But this is about power
Speaker 1: and greed and ownership, and that's what people are voting for.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you're going to like this book because also,
Speaker 2: you know, I think that this book informed a lot
Speaker 2: of my thoughts about like, Okay, what could we you know,
Speaker 2: change And there are aspects of this book that really
Speaker 2: talk about the responsibility we need to put back on
Speaker 2: community and not community as in like on a Target
Speaker 2: T shirt. Yeah, community as as. The example I gave
Speaker 2: a friend today was I might not be able to
Speaker 2: convince a Republican at large that disability rights matter. Sure,
Speaker 2: but if I live next to a Republican and every
Speaker 2: day we wave to each other and my kids in
Speaker 2: a wheelchair, he might actually be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: fuck yeah, I do. That is where I want my
Speaker 2: text tests to go. And that's small community, right. We
Speaker 2: are getting people on a one by one basis. People
Speaker 2: be like, why do you know I think we I'll say,
Speaker 2: we don't have to have empathy for everybody, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure in having empathy from my mom. My mom ended
Speaker 2: up voting for gay rights. And I was like, that's
Speaker 2: a one on one.
Speaker 1: It's the one on one, it's the dinner table conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like it's the people need to see a human
Speaker 1: and that's what I and I'm sure you can talk
Speaker 1: about this. I'm selling my husband. When you're dealing with
Speaker 1: public figures, it shocks me. I'll tell you the story.
Speaker 1: My cousin yesterday, who I don't talk to, never talk to.
Speaker 1: My cousin messages me. I respond back and then he says, well,
Speaker 1: you do an Instagram live with me? And I was like,
Speaker 1: honeyw hi, how are you. How have you been? And
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I'm not being seen as a person.
Speaker 1: Another friend of mine, one of my best friends who's
Speaker 1: also in the industry, I went to a funeral with
Speaker 1: them and after the funeral they were burying their mother,
Speaker 1: people ask for selfies with them. She's like, Oh, you're
Speaker 1: not seeing us as human. And so it's interesting when
Speaker 1: we think about social media and these big platforms, like, oh,
Speaker 1: people aren't seeing anyone as human. So that's really not
Speaker 1: going to shift the narrative. The celebrity that says vote
Speaker 1: for it is not really gonna shift it as much
Speaker 1: as the dinner table conversations people who actually do see
Speaker 1: you as a person. So it's like the small community
Speaker 1: you're so right, is I think where real change will happen.
Speaker 2: And I think I think black folks and quick folks
Speaker 2: know this like best is. There's nothing more threatening to
Speaker 2: the government than small communities, which.
Speaker 1: Is why they're trying to bring it up.
Speaker 2: They do it all the time. It's like it's so
Speaker 2: you know, using Portland as an example, and I could
Speaker 2: think it was the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, there
Speaker 2: was this thriving street in Portland where like a bunch
Speaker 2: of black folks lived and they were able to there
Speaker 2: was this massive business business exchange. Yeah and so, and
Speaker 2: because you could walk everywhere, it's like four blocks.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: And what the government did, and this is all written down.
Speaker 2: This was a city plan and so you can research this.
Speaker 2: What the government did is they came in and they
Speaker 2: were like, no.
Speaker 1: This is the same as total maskers are different.
Speaker 2: Different. This is in Portland, Oregon, Oh Okay. And so
Speaker 2: the government comes in and they're like, how do we
Speaker 2: break this up? And what they do is they put
Speaker 2: a cement block in the middle of the road and
Speaker 2: they create like basically a mile long one way. And
Speaker 2: so instead of being able to go get your groceries
Speaker 2: over here and then go to your barbershop and then
Speaker 2: go to your bookstore and across the street back and forth,
Speaker 2: you go to your barbershop and then you have to
Speaker 2: get back in your car. You drive up up yep.
Speaker 2: And then they ended up when people were like, fuck,
Speaker 2: this sucks, but they were still like, you know what,
Speaker 2: we'll drive up and around. Yeah, they plucked up all
Speaker 2: the trees. And then when plucking up the trees was
Speaker 2: not enough to get people to move. They built a
Speaker 2: highway over the neighborhood. And it's because well, of course,
Speaker 2: we can listen to these stories and be like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, that's horrific. See the whole system's broken. Or
Speaker 2: you can say, if a government is spending that much
Speaker 2: money to destroy four blocks, then small community is the answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fucking tea. That's fucking tea.
Speaker 2: I hope you like it.
Speaker 1: I can't wait. I can't wait. Okay, think you're for
Speaker 1: having that conversation with me, because these conversations are hard
Speaker 1: to have and it's like unclear where to start with
Speaker 1: them and who to like have them with, because you know,
Speaker 1: we're all I think a lot of us are in
Speaker 1: our communities where were feeling the same. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: still I remember at the end of these conversations how
Speaker 1: important it is to not hold these things in, but
Speaker 1: to like commune and to yeah, like the hope comes
Speaker 1: back in. You want to tell me something messy.
Speaker 2: I want to tell you something messy please. So I
Speaker 2: was just in prepping for this today, I was like
Speaker 2: I could not think of anything that It was like,
Speaker 2: this is responsible for me to share and by accident,
Speaker 2: I ended up telling my friend this story over coffe
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is it. Yes, When I
Speaker 2: was twenty years old, I was in Chicago and I
Speaker 2: was going to therapy, and I had spent all of
Speaker 2: my like high school, grade school, all these days feeling
Speaker 2: like a really ugly kid, just feeling so hideous. And
Speaker 2: I think it was because I didn't know I was gay,
Speaker 2: and everyone somehow knew I was gay without knowing I
Speaker 2: was gay, and so I just was not attracted to
Speaker 2: attractive to any of these people I was growing up with,
Speaker 2: and I felt I was like, I'm gonna die ugly
Speaker 2: like this, I'm gonna die unlovably ugly, unlovably loveably hideous,
Speaker 2: like just hideous to everyone in Ohio and I go
Speaker 2: to I moved to Chicago, and immediately people were like,
Speaker 2: You're the opposite of ugly.
Speaker 1: I was like, what's this, what's happening? What do I
Speaker 1: do with this?
Speaker 2: What is this? I just was like, I just was
Speaker 2: such a slut. I was like, we gotta gotta make
Speaker 2: up the last time, and so I went. I was
Speaker 2: also in therapy at the time, trying to be responsible,
Speaker 2: and I was having this feeling of being like I
Speaker 2: really can't. It seems like right now I can have
Speaker 2: sex with whoever. I like, point my finger at yes,
Speaker 2: can I do it with my therapist? And so I
Speaker 2: and I told her this. I told her like a
Speaker 2: version of this. I was like, I'm having like a
Speaker 2: weird kind of crisis of self. I'm like, I went
Speaker 2: from having no value at all in this space to
Speaker 2: now this is like it feels like it's the first
Speaker 2: thing people are valuing me for. Yeah, And I feel
Speaker 2: that I'll get confused and I'm not really understanding boundaries,
Speaker 2: and like i think because I'm not attuned to getting
Speaker 2: that kind of attention, I'm I'm having a hard time
Speaker 2: reading it. So and everyone's thinking I'm flirting and I
Speaker 2: always then yeah, and she's like talking me through this,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's just like whatever. And then at
Speaker 2: the end of the session, I was like, anyway, do
Speaker 2: you want to come to one of my shows. She's
Speaker 2: she's like twelve years older than me, married, mother of
Speaker 2: two toddlers, married to a man, married to a man,
Speaker 2: mother of two. There the whole I've commented on their family,
Speaker 2: like I've been like, oh my god, they're so cute.
Speaker 2: And she's like oh there. You know we've had and
Speaker 2: I was like, so we have that session, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: do you want to come to my show? And she's
Speaker 2: like yes, And so I mean, I'm drunk with power.
Speaker 1: You're powerful. I'm drunk. Oh my god. Especially if your
Speaker 1: therapist says yes, I'll come to your show. I think
Speaker 1: all of all I want is my therapist's approval, Like
Speaker 1: that is everything.
Speaker 2: Like I think about my therapist as much as I
Speaker 2: think about my mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, therapist is like is a second mom and
Speaker 1: so many ways.
Speaker 2: Yes, And she comes to the show. I can see
Speaker 2: in the audience because I've invited women to shows. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I can see in the audience that she's having a
Speaker 2: very like horny experience. And so afterwards I come and
Speaker 2: she's looking at me in like a different way.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Afterwards, we go out to a bar. We are doing
Speaker 2: straight up, we are doing Irish car bombs. Oh no,
Speaker 2: because because we're in Chicago and I'm twenty, and this
Speaker 2: bar lets me in because I'm like a good commedity
Speaker 2: and so we're just over there, me and my fucking
Speaker 2: you know, thirty two year.
Speaker 1: Old therapist having Irish car moms getting so wasted unbelievably so.
Speaker 2: And this we're sitting in the back and she's like
Speaker 2: telling me about her life and in this wistful way
Speaker 2: that that straight woman do when you get them away
Speaker 2: from their husbands.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: And this guy comes in the bar and he's like
Speaker 2: obviously not down to hang yeah, And he comes to
Speaker 2: the bar and he's looking around and he sees her
Speaker 2: and he comes and he just marches right towards her,
Speaker 2: and he's like, what are you doing here?
Speaker 1: What is this?
Speaker 2: What's going on? Like just like this, I'm like, we're
Speaker 2: having fun. There's fucking like a low tone.
Speaker 1: Oh my god? What is that low tone in a
Speaker 1: bar that's terrified? In front of enchiladas and harsh car bombs?
Speaker 1: I'm terrified.
Speaker 2: Well, and then when someone is like speaking to you
Speaker 2: like that, then I'm like looking at her and her
Speaker 2: eyes are putting in two different.
Speaker 1: The cartoon it's like, and he's.
Speaker 2: Looking at like a twenty year old yeah, And and
Speaker 2: I guess that he knows that she's I think what
Speaker 2: happened is he like looked up my show. I went
Speaker 2: to the theater and then was like where do people
Speaker 2: hang out? Like had to find her?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: And then came to the bar and got her and
Speaker 2: we just never talked again.
Speaker 1: You never saw no like, what do you mean like
Speaker 1: for nexic appointment? Didn't did you get ghosts to.
Speaker 2: My your dervis? We? I think we just both knew
Speaker 2: she would text me every week to be like what day.
Speaker 1: Works and that, and then you never got that text.
Speaker 1: Wow you're a king?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I do you think about her?
Speaker 1: Off?
Speaker 2: I would I think about her because I think about
Speaker 2: how you know, you're like a twenty year old soo
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm not responsible for anything, and now as
Speaker 2: an adult, I'm like Jesus, that poor thing. Yeah, her
Speaker 2: and her and her poor husband they had two kids
Speaker 2: together and.
Speaker 1: And he's searching for her in bars. She's hanging out
Speaker 1: with her client and she's hanging and she's hanging out. God. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would also have that touch tone what are you
Speaker 1: doing it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What is this? What are you doing this? Oh my god?
Speaker 1: That is a delicious story. Thank you so much, thank you. Wow. Okay, y'all,
Speaker 1: if you have your own messy stories, you can email
Speaker 1: them to tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Shall we do some messy mail? Time for messy mail?
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Okay. As always, your submissions will remain anonymous.
Speaker 1: This first one says squirtsicles a new term. I have
Speaker 1: coined a summer or all seasons cold snack Buckle up, babe,
Speaker 1: I squirt into a bowl with the help of a partner,
Speaker 1: pour my juices into popsicle mold, and make a kinky
Speaker 1: cold snackles. Okay, this school, Oh my god, the squortsicle
Speaker 1: is really making this a term is used for playing
Speaker 1: in holes, eating and all the pleasures. Okay, how are
Speaker 1: you feeling? Would you have a sportsicle? Would you make
Speaker 1: a sport school? And would you eat a sportsicol? Very
Speaker 1: two different things? You are stressed?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm really trying to drop in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, try to get grounded in this, trying to lean in.
Speaker 2: I will say I would not make one myself.
Speaker 1: Uh huh? Would you help somebody make one?
Speaker 2: If it? I guess. But the truth is most of
Speaker 2: the time, if it really turns you on, it will
Speaker 2: start to turn me on.
Speaker 1: I'm the same way. I'm turned on by my partner's pleasure.
Speaker 2: And if this was really something that they wanted to do,
Speaker 2: then I would do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but for yourself, Like I don't know, if I
Speaker 1: could like come into.
Speaker 2: A popsicle, I'm not gonna be doing that.
Speaker 1: Clear me.
Speaker 2: I will be doing that, but for you and I
Speaker 2: will I would be eating that.
Speaker 1: You would eat it.
Speaker 2: I would eat it if because if somebody else and I.
Speaker 1: My partners comes to cale I swallow your love, might
Speaker 1: as well put it in a front sheet with some fruit.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel. I I identify very strongly as
Speaker 2: the liquid King of the Midwest, and.
Speaker 1: The liquid King of the Midwest.
Speaker 2: Yeah see, I'm gonna be I add some sweat, you know,
Speaker 2: add some fuck. I guess it's just the process where
Speaker 2: I'm like whoa, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a process.
Speaker 2: Okay, freezing. It seems freezing.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I guess for like a later tree.
Speaker 1: I just I just ge't. Like I used to love
Speaker 1: making popsicles as a kid. My brain is like short
Speaker 1: circuit and I'm like, wait, those molds are for like
Speaker 1: a tasty afternoon snack. And now you're like, no, I
Speaker 1: can like come in there, put some fruit.
Speaker 2: Juice, yo, Yeah, I know what it would taste good in.
Speaker 2: Tell me martini shaken. It's a squirty martini.
Speaker 1: Okay, you gotta go. I got there. Okay, This one says,
Speaker 1: finally completed my year's long dream of sucking my husband
Speaker 1: off while he watched his Yankees on TV at home.
Speaker 1: Had you I love like the first time? Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I can tell you the story. I remember one of
Speaker 1: my first I don't want say my first partners, but
Speaker 1: it was the first time I met this partner and
Speaker 1: he was playing video games and then I made him
Speaker 1: turn on Scandal because I love course, so it's like
Speaker 1: turn that off, put on Scandal, but I started giving.
Speaker 1: I would go over there and I'd give him head
Speaker 1: while would play video games or watch TV.
Speaker 2: I have looked up that porn that is so hot.
Speaker 1: It's so hot, right, I love like you go watch
Speaker 1: your show, watch your game. I'ma just fucking b down
Speaker 1: here doing my thing.
Speaker 2: Well, it comes in two parts for me, Yes, I
Speaker 2: think people some people get nervous. Yeah, when like the
Speaker 2: attentions focused on them, so you give them like a
Speaker 2: little bit of an activity, and then I genuinely like
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. So then I am like, I'm giving
Speaker 2: you something that you can pretend to focus on. I
Speaker 2: can have this experience, and that's that's how I phrase it.
Speaker 2: That's like you do your I'm gonna be down here
Speaker 2: doing exactly what I want.
Speaker 1: This is what I want to do.
Speaker 2: That is very well what we want. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: there's kind of a domb thing of being of them
Speaker 2: and like I'm so disinterested. Yes, and do you little rat,
Speaker 2: you fucking.
Speaker 1: Subah, take this? And I think I like the challenge
Speaker 1: of of course, of course this is gonna be so
Speaker 1: good to you in a moment.
Speaker 2: You think I'm a rat now I'm at now rat king,
Speaker 2: I'm the rat king up the Midwest. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that if they actually were like we're like genuinely
Speaker 2: watching their show and never include in, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I would be.
Speaker 1: Like like, Okay, that's hard to do. Oh, I gotta
Speaker 1: go watch some YouTube videos and figure it out. You noticed, Scott,
Speaker 1: I gotta didn't. Didn't even flinch.
Speaker 2: Should cool earning attention?
Speaker 1: Hot?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I guess the same parents.
Speaker 1: That is teah. This one says my friend is a
Speaker 1: partner but just told me they like me. I like
Speaker 1: them too. I put it on them to decide. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be disrespectful to either, so I shouldn't
Speaker 1: make the choice. Help because this sucks.
Speaker 2: Your friend has a partner, and your friend just told
Speaker 2: you that they have feelings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you like them too, but you make you
Speaker 1: you're they have to decide if they want to be
Speaker 1: with you or their partner because you don't want to
Speaker 1: be disrespectful, which is tea. I think it's hmmm. I
Speaker 1: here's how I feel.
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if I'm the friend in the relationship,
Speaker 1: me telling my friend that I have a crush on
Speaker 1: them puts them in an awkward situation and isn't actually
Speaker 1: quite friendly of me.
Speaker 2: I also feel like they're being a shit bag. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think. I think it's a shitty thing to do,
Speaker 2: because be brave. Be brave, like go through the breakup, yes,
Speaker 2: and then tell your friend yeah, and then and then
Speaker 2: live with it. If your friend is like, I don't
Speaker 2: feel that way about you, yeah, but if you you're
Speaker 2: you're betraying multiple people.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And.
Speaker 2: I've I've been in situations similar to this. I'm actually
Speaker 2: not coming at it from a place of judgment. I'm
Speaker 2: saying like, you don't want that on you, you don't
Speaker 2: want that feeling. You don't and and you're you're the
Speaker 2: bad guy when you can't break up with somebody, you
Speaker 2: are the bad guy, and I know you feel like
Speaker 2: you're not the bad guy. But not being able to
Speaker 2: tell somebody that you don't love them anymore, or that
Speaker 2: you don't love them in the same way that they
Speaker 2: need you to or want you to, or that you
Speaker 2: are pretending to and telling other people about that is
Speaker 2: the biggest betrayal. Yeah, I don't want anybody. I wish
Speaker 2: any time that that had would ever happen to me.
Speaker 2: I wish a person would just come straight to me
Speaker 2: and go, I'm not feeling it anymore. Absolutely, absolutely, let
Speaker 2: me grieve with dignity before you go tell everybody around
Speaker 2: me how you don't love me anymore.
Speaker 1: Ooh, I'm one hundred percent with that. I've always thought
Speaker 1: when it comes to cheating, and now I'm no monogamous
Speaker 1: of poly orist, but I would used to say when
Speaker 1: I was monogamous, I actually don't care about the cheating.
Speaker 1: It's you not telling me about it. Yes, it's the
Speaker 1: lying or it's like pretending like we're fine and then
Speaker 1: I find out later that you've been doing something like
Speaker 1: that part of it, because then I feel like a fool.
Speaker 1: It's like, don't make a fool.
Speaker 2: I don't want to feel like an idiot.
Speaker 1: I don't want feel like an idiot. Yeah, that's really what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: I would rather you're right, be brave, have the conversation
Speaker 1: with me, and then whatever.
Speaker 2: But I get being horny, and I get falling in
Speaker 2: love with people. I think falling in love often the
Speaker 2: best falling in love happens by accident. Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: I don't fault anyone for having that experience. You just can't.
Speaker 2: You can't be mad about that. You can feel salty
Speaker 2: about one hundred percent. But yeah, if my partner met
Speaker 2: somebody that they were just new actually in a moment
Speaker 2: that they were way more in love with this person,
Speaker 2: saw a much brighter future person with this person. In
Speaker 2: loving my partner, i'd want them to have that experience,
Speaker 2: And in loving myself, i'd want someone to be with
Speaker 2: me that felt that way about me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, don't get involved in that, sweetie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Honesty can be hard, but the rewards
Speaker 1: of that keeping your I always say, keep yourself of
Speaker 1: the street clean, Like I remember the person wants to
Speaker 1: respond how they respond, but like, make sure that all
Speaker 1: of your shit you're doing clean clear above board, with integrity,
Speaker 1: with kindness, with compassion. Uh, and then you can't be
Speaker 1: it just saves your heart because the heartbreak is gonna
Speaker 1: come and heart like with my therapist always says, with
Speaker 1: love comes heartbreak, so you're not gonna avoid I love that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's part of this thing. But can you
Speaker 1: be respectful and kind in the middle of heartbreak? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fuck, And it can be hard, you can
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: This one says, do some gay men like trans men?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: I picked this one because you and I are both
Speaker 1: non binary, and I've never I've never gotten to have
Speaker 1: a conversation well certainly not on Mike, but like about
Speaker 1: what is the experience of coming into your non binary
Speaker 1: or trans identity and navigating your sex life. I'll answer
Speaker 1: quite quickly, yes, there are plenty of gay men that
Speaker 1: love trans men, and plenty of straight men that love
Speaker 1: trans women. Like, yes, that's you know, genitals are irrelevant,
Speaker 1: But what is the experience of being trans or non binary?
Speaker 1: And I think I would say for myself, I still
Speaker 1: identify as gay, And so that was also confusing because
Speaker 1: with gay it's like, well, you're the same understood as
Speaker 1: the same gender, although we sometimes say same sex, but
Speaker 1: that's when the gender and sex and those terms get interchanged.
Speaker 1: And then I was thinking, well, can I still identify
Speaker 1: as gay if I am non binary? And then what
Speaker 1: is it to like re enter the space of gay
Speaker 1: men now being non binary, and how do they see me?
Speaker 1: And there's just so many things, and so I'm just
Speaker 1: curious about, like what your experience was as you came
Speaker 1: into your non binary identity and then re emerge into
Speaker 1: your sex life.
Speaker 2: I think gay is is more of an umbrella term, actually,
Speaker 2: and I think that it's the same thing with queer
Speaker 2: and lesbian is so gendered and so you know, to me,
Speaker 2: it's very it's very like, you know, it's women loving women.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I hate being called a lesbian, Yeah, I hate it.
Speaker 2: I think it's so like just the very opposite of affirming.
Speaker 2: I feel really embarrassed when I get called a lesbian,
Speaker 2: and it's it happens all the time. And I have
Speaker 2: nothing against lesbians, but I don't identify as a woman.
Speaker 2: I really don't. And I love lesbians, I love lesbian culture,
Speaker 2: I lovel lesbian films. I've got a bunch of lesbian friends.
Speaker 2: I'm not a lesbian and when people are talking about
Speaker 2: my girlfriend having a lesbian experience, I'm like, no, she's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my.
Speaker 2: Girlfriend's not identifying with that either, But gay, we are
Speaker 2: identifying with, queer, we are identifying with It's like it's
Speaker 2: the difference between girl and boy, you know, when you're
Speaker 2: with your friends and everyone's girl. Yeah, because girl is genderless.
Speaker 2: It really is, yes.
Speaker 1: Like girl and bro. Yeah, people call me bro. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine. I don't take a gender to brow or
Speaker 1: a girl or any event.
Speaker 2: Uh huh. But I guess boy would be weird.
Speaker 1: Boy is weird.
Speaker 2: Yes, And that's how that's a little bit how I
Speaker 2: feel about that. I think I think it depends on
Speaker 2: if you're a person and no judgment. If you're a
Speaker 2: person that's more about energetics, or if you're a person
Speaker 2: that's more about genitals.
Speaker 1: Talk to me like, break that. I know what you mean,
Speaker 1: but break that down a little more and energetic versus genital.
Speaker 2: If I'm dating a woman that mostly has dated men
Speaker 2: and she is into energetics, she is having a very
Speaker 2: similar experience. It's just that I can read God, okay,
Speaker 2: and that, but that is true. She's like having a
Speaker 2: really I'm still her boyfriend. Like that's really how I feel,
Speaker 2: and it's just so apparent, like I'm always some woman's
Speaker 2: dumb husband. No, no woman has ever pointed to me
Speaker 2: and said that's my girlfriend, or that's that's my woman,
Speaker 2: that's my lady. Like that is just not the energetic
Speaker 2: experience that we are having. And I think that for
Speaker 2: some people the genitals are so very important. And that's
Speaker 2: that's when I do mean like no judgment, because it's
Speaker 2: in some way it's almost a kink where like the
Speaker 2: genitals are the prime value here. Okay, well that's fine too,
Speaker 2: But I have of met trans men that are more
Speaker 2: masculine than a lot of his men, and so if
Speaker 2: I personally were into masculinity, it would I might pick
Speaker 2: a trans man over a sis man in certain things.
Speaker 2: If I'm going for energetics, yes, and the genitals just
Speaker 2: don't matter. I'm a horny person. I'm a horny person.
Speaker 2: I would fuck a tree, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I have thought about it. I think where I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're looking at me, don't.
Speaker 1: Talk about the sad.
Speaker 2: Yes, No, I'm I'm a horny and I'm really horny
Speaker 2: for people's like internal cathedral, right, that's like their understanding
Speaker 2: of self, the experience of the world, getting to know
Speaker 2: people and then you get to be with their body
Speaker 2: and it's like so exciting. That is horny to me,
Speaker 2: And sometimes I'm horny in a very like slutty way
Speaker 2: where it literally doesn't matter what anybody has. If we're vibing,
Speaker 2: if we have that energyah, then it doesn't matter what
Speaker 2: you have. That's that's just how I feel. I think
Speaker 2: that there are plenty of people who feel the very
Speaker 2: opposite of me in that way. We're the only thing
Speaker 2: that they can think about. The genital And I talked
Speaker 2: to a lot of like straight women, and we're like, man,
Speaker 2: you would do it for me, but I just could
Speaker 2: never be.
Speaker 3: But a vagina, a vagina, vagina, And that is always
Speaker 3: interesting to me because there's so much in my mind
Speaker 3: kind of like false emphasis played on put on genitals,
Speaker 3: false emphasis put on.
Speaker 2: This, like true like dick worship. You have a vagina,
Speaker 2: You have one. Why are you so grossed up by yourself?
Speaker 2: You're a grossed up because you live in a culture
Speaker 2: that fucking does not like pussy.
Speaker 1: Doesn't like pussy, doesn't like women doesn't like formIn enity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you you're in that pool, so of course you adopt that.
Speaker 1: You can end up adopting these these beliefs against yourself,
Speaker 1: which that's true, you know. I think about that with
Speaker 1: you can be there's a term all skin folk and
Speaker 1: kin folks, so like you can be black and still
Speaker 1: be you know, anti black. You can be a woman
Speaker 1: and still be misogynists. Like we can still do these
Speaker 1: things because we are but were rare inside of it.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know. One of the things that I really
Speaker 2: truly admire about the gay male community, gay men I
Speaker 2: don't feel shame around having been masturbating their entire life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they just don't feel ashamed about it. They love their.
Speaker 1: Dicks and so normalized.
Speaker 2: But yes, and so when they're with other people that
Speaker 2: have dicks, they are like, great, we know how to
Speaker 2: do this. Let's have some fun. It feels like even
Speaker 2: very casual. Yes, which I mean please, if I had
Speaker 2: a dong along, I would be in I would I
Speaker 2: would be in the bathhouses, I would be getting same,
Speaker 2: I would be in the locker room.
Speaker 1: But they're not pussy jerk sections, so like that's not
Speaker 1: a thing.
Speaker 2: And it's not because pussies aren't fucking great and easy
Speaker 2: to please. It's because women and and people with pussies
Speaker 2: are so separated from that being an okay thing to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much shame.
Speaker 2: There's so much shame about it. You get all these
Speaker 2: jokes when you're in like sixth grade about how you
Speaker 2: know that smells like fish and it's disgusting and everyone
Speaker 2: knew that. Like I remember at my school there were
Speaker 2: girls who got wet, and then it became a big
Speaker 2: joke about how disgusting it were. It was that they
Speaker 2: got wet, and you know, wet being the sign of pleasure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it's it's a weird you're constantly navigating all these
Speaker 2: landmines when you're a person that has a pussy. You're
Speaker 2: just constantly navigating this. And so women get really genital
Speaker 2: focused too, but never on themselves needing dick, needing, dick,
Speaker 2: needing dick. I'm not buying it. Yeah, what would you
Speaker 2: be into if you were not in a culture that
Speaker 2: was literally saying cocky is king?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all. First of all, one two things you're
Speaker 1: talking about the ways in which our genitals are spoken
Speaker 1: about over in middle school, elementary school, and how that
Speaker 1: that messaging never gets updated to us, and so like
Speaker 1: we carry all of that into our adulthood and it's like,
Speaker 1: who told you your pussy was bad?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: From sixth grader told you that? Yeah, Now you're in
Speaker 1: your thirties and forties still thinking of pussy's been Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's such a mind fuck. And then to this
Speaker 1: last point, who I always sa? Who would I be
Speaker 1: if society never got its hands on me? So like
Speaker 1: if society never told you that caucus king, if society
Speaker 1: actually revered pussy's and revered femininity, how would you actually
Speaker 1: feel about yourself? And so like how much of your
Speaker 1: baggage belongs to you or was given to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Whose voice is that?
Speaker 1: Yes? Whose voice is that? And how do you? And
Speaker 1: I think that that is part of the non binary
Speaker 1: experience and stepping into that has been a like I
Speaker 1: need to shake all this off. Yeah, like what you
Speaker 1: told me I was, I am not. And this is
Speaker 1: my way of owning who I actually am and getting
Speaker 1: to be who I actually am.
Speaker 2: You know a good example I think of the way
Speaker 2: that we are, we are mentally like segregated by genitals
Speaker 2: in this way of praise is think about how many
Speaker 2: toys are targeted to women's masturbation. Okay, and I actually
Speaker 2: promote some of these toys, so I'm not dissing the
Speaker 2: toys themselves. Yeah, I'm saying how many toys are that
Speaker 2: are targeted to being the conduit for women's pleasure. We
Speaker 2: have hands, People with vaginas have hands, and not all
Speaker 2: of these masturbation tools are being targeted to people with
Speaker 2: penises at all, because people with penises have hands, and
Speaker 2: so there's this understanding that men know how to get
Speaker 2: themselves off and that people with pussies need something else.
Speaker 2: The reason I'm not anti toy is because I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, thumb people and trans people and women get
Speaker 2: so separated from pleasure that I'm like, Okay, do whatever
Speaker 2: you need to, but I don't want everyone thinking that
Speaker 2: you need a strap to fuck, and that you need
Speaker 2: a vibrator to get off, and that you need dildo
Speaker 2: to come. You literally do not. We are Our bodies
Speaker 2: are meant for fucking each other. Our bodies are meant
Speaker 2: for pleasing ourselves. Like the non binary experience that I'm
Speaker 2: having is that my whole body is this like sexual machine,
Speaker 2: and your whole body is a sexual machine, and as
Speaker 2: long as we are connecting, our machines are going to
Speaker 2: work together. Yes, if we want to bring in another lever, awesome, awesome,
Speaker 2: yeah right, But at at base, our bodies will work
Speaker 2: together no matter what body you have.
Speaker 1: I love that and I couldn't agree more. And I
Speaker 1: haven't been able to articulate that, and I think that
Speaker 1: that is so brilliantly stated because I think that my
Speaker 1: non binary experience has shifted how I approach sex, because
Speaker 1: even you know, even with the dick, it feels like
Speaker 1: there's one way that this works, and it's like on
Speaker 1: the top, I'm a bottom, this dick goes in and
Speaker 1: that's what we do. And being able to step into
Speaker 1: my non binary identity has made me have to question
Speaker 1: what sex is and who I have sex with and
Speaker 1: who are the people that I'm attracted to, And it's
Speaker 1: become far more energetic than genital basics, yes, which is
Speaker 1: the you know, I remember the first time I came
Speaker 1: without actually coming, which was like my body just orgasm
Speaker 1: and there wasn't because I'm like, oh, there's so much
Speaker 1: focus on come, and I'm like, you don't have to
Speaker 1: come to have a good time. You don't have to, like,
Speaker 1: you can have this orgasmic experience is energetic experience. You
Speaker 1: can fuck without penetration. Like, well, like, again, what are
Speaker 1: we defining as sex and why are we continuing to
Speaker 1: define it as a dick in a pussy? And if
Speaker 1: it's not that, then we didn't actually have sex. It's
Speaker 1: not actually really.
Speaker 2: And all the things that actually like bring women, like
Speaker 2: the specifically talking about heterosexuals, all the things that particularly
Speaker 2: bring them pleasure are the lead up to penetration.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not the penetration, yes.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, the penetration after Like we know that
Speaker 2: women need like at least like twelve minutes to get
Speaker 2: warmed up, right, is women need like twelve minutes to
Speaker 2: get warmed up and then penetration can happen And why
Speaker 2: aren't we tease? But but it's like and then the
Speaker 2: penetration can happen that whole time if you're really into
Speaker 2: your partner, that whole time that we're calling lead up
Speaker 2: is said, that sucks, Yeah, that sucks. And if that's
Speaker 2: if you, I guess there's a mental breakdown for me there.
Speaker 2: And like I've had sex with men and so this
Speaker 2: was always like a disconnect was I could feel that
Speaker 2: that quote unquote lead up was not important to them.
Speaker 2: It was only important to them insofar as they were
Speaker 2: going to get to the part that they were excited about. Yes,
Speaker 2: And that was so unattractive to me.
Speaker 1: So heartbreaking and devastating. When you're like, oh, you're just
Speaker 1: you're not actually interested in me, and you're not actually
Speaker 1: interested in mutual pleasure. I'm just an object. Which I
Speaker 1: don't mind being an object when I want to be
Speaker 1: an object, yes, like when it feels like there's a
Speaker 1: mutual exchange here, But when I'm just when you're literally
Speaker 1: not concerned about my pleasure or.
Speaker 2: The falsehood of pretending to be said about my pleasures
Speaker 2: so that you can get what you yes, I hate
Speaker 2: and I don't understand it. That's that's sometimes I think that,
Speaker 2: in like nineties terms, I think that heteromen can be
Speaker 2: like the gayest. Yeah, well, I'm like, y'all don't really
Speaker 2: like women's bodies, Like your big excitement is when you
Speaker 2: get to like, you know, pound away. Yes, but I'm
Speaker 2: attracted to women, and so the whole time that my
Speaker 2: partner is having a nice time is the whole time
Speaker 2: that I'm having a nice time.
Speaker 1: It's I can't impress this enough to anyone listening. It's
Speaker 1: like that to me, is when you've reached sexual nirvana.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: When we're we're when there's an exchange of energies, when
Speaker 1: we're and we are getting off on the other getting off,
Speaker 1: and it's not just about my like, it's us working
Speaker 1: together to create this pleasure, not yours than mine or
Speaker 1: mine than yours.
Speaker 2: And that's when you get the squirtsicle period.
Speaker 1: That's how you get see that that partner's doing it.
Speaker 1: That's how your sports call and becomes cales. Is when
Speaker 1: there's that mutual energy, when the focus is not about
Speaker 1: the genitals. As you said, we can add another lover
Speaker 1: to this, but it's about the energy. It's about us.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love you. It was just so nice.
Speaker 1: I love you so much. This is a dream come truth.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yes, well you know we're hose here, but hoes with heart.
Speaker 1: So before we go, let me speak to yours. I
Speaker 1: am obsessed. When er said, really horny for their internal cathedral,
Speaker 1: their understanding of self, their experience of the world. Uh
Speaker 1: that just like I felt so seen by that, May
Speaker 1: we all be horny for people's internal cathedrals. May we
Speaker 1: have the experience of connecting to people in that way?
Speaker 1: And also even if we don't, I think, just as
Speaker 1: somebody who is into that, it's so validating to hear
Speaker 1: there are other people who really vibe with the energetic
Speaker 1: you know, who vibe with matching people's energies. And I
Speaker 1: really really love this, you know, this thing to unpack
Speaker 1: about how focused we might be on genitals and why
Speaker 1: is that? What is the culture we've grown up in
Speaker 1: that is so focused on cock worship? You know, what
Speaker 1: would you be into if culture wasn't saying cock is king?
Speaker 2: Uh? You know?
Speaker 1: It just is this thing that you know, I keep
Speaker 1: coming back to. Who would I be so decided? I
Speaker 1: never got its hands on me? This idea that we've
Speaker 1: been trained and reared and indoctrinated to believe certain things
Speaker 1: are better than other things, or feel love towards dick
Speaker 1: but discussed towards volvas, And how do we undo that?
Speaker 1: How do we unpack that? How do we reorient what
Speaker 1: should be priority? Which is pleasure, which is your pleasure,
Speaker 1: mutual pleasure, which is your energy, which is your connection
Speaker 1: to people. And that doesn't mean that we need to
Speaker 1: fall in love and get married, but like that, it's
Speaker 1: okay to value the person that you're in bed with,
Speaker 1: to value how they use that cock and that vulva
Speaker 1: and not just they have a cock revolva and always interrogating,
Speaker 1: as Er said, whose voice is that? Whose voice is
Speaker 1: telling you this is right, this is wrong? And expanding
Speaker 1: your definition of sex. You don't need to strap on
Speaker 1: a fuck, I want that tat it. You don't need
Speaker 1: a strapland a fuck at base, our bodies will work
Speaker 1: together no matter what body you have. Er was just
Speaker 1: dropping gems on gems on gems. And when you think
Speaker 1: about that, like, if you were to expand your definition
Speaker 1: of sex and it is just about how we connect
Speaker 1: and how we worship at each other's internal cathedrals, then yeah,
Speaker 1: our bodies will work together and we'll find pleasure with
Speaker 1: each other and the genitals aren't of the utmost importance.
Speaker 1: Now listen, This is not to say like, don't include
Speaker 1: your toys, or if you like dick, don't like dick,
Speaker 1: if you like pussy, don't like put like of course,
Speaker 1: like please do you. But I think it's about expanding
Speaker 1: It's about, uh, not just having one focus. It's about
Speaker 1: being able to bring more to the table than just
Speaker 1: your genitals, or or be interested in more than just
Speaker 1: someone's genitals, and at the same token, have love for yours,
Speaker 1: you know, have have have love and respect and admiration
Speaker 1: and adoration for your own genitals, for whatever you're bringing
Speaker 1: to the table, not seeing what you're giving between your
Speaker 1: thighs as wrong, and working together to build pleasure. Ugh,
Speaker 1: this conversation really nourished me, as I'm sure you could
Speaker 1: hear and you can feel in this moment, so I
Speaker 1: hope it did the same for you. I love you.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Speaker 1: Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcasts at tell Me
Speaker 1: Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Speaker 1: Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
Speaker 1: recommendations on sex and self and so much more. Also,
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
Speaker 1: your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell
Speaker 1: Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
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Speaker 1: rate review, and share this podcast with all your HOE
Speaker 1: and aspiring HOE friends really really helps the show out
Speaker 1: all right. Until next time, ask about the politics of
Speaker 1: that dick before you make it spit, make sure they
Speaker 1: eat the kitty before they beat the kittie, before fucation
Speaker 1: or suckcation communication. And in case you haven't heard it yet,
Speaker 1: today you are so deeply loved. I love you ye,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
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Speaker 1: was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly.
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