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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Tell us about the book Living in the

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Speaker 1: Paradox of Enlightenment. You know, in around two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: I started to go to a teacher in Santa Barbara.

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Speaker 1: It was a small group that met every week. And

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Speaker 1: when I first went, it wasn't like, Wow, this is incredible.

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Speaker 1: It was just like, huh, this is interesting. I think

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Speaker 1: I'll go some more. And I just kept going and

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Speaker 1: going and then pretty and I said, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: always going to go. I'm gonna go every week. I

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Speaker 1: went for eleven years, and during that time I developed

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Speaker 1: more and more essays. I just started writing more and

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Speaker 1: more essays from my website. I actually started writing essays

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Speaker 1: from my website and like m twenty years ago, but

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Speaker 1: now they kicked up to a new level. And so

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Speaker 1: these essays got integrated into the book and refined. And

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Speaker 1: so that's how the book came about. And there's lots

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Speaker 1: of things to talk about with you tonight, Thomas, about

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Speaker 1: enlightenment and spiritual awake. I want your take on how

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Speaker 1: you think the world is headed today, because there's something missing.

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Speaker 1: I just can't put my finger on it, but people

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Speaker 1: seem to be upset, uptight. It's just has a different

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Speaker 1: feel to it. Are you picking that up to? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I think so. I'm not as connected to the main

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Speaker 1: public like you might be, But I still think I

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Speaker 1: pick it up more like an intuitive or a psychic way,

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Speaker 1: you know. And there's an anxiousness, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: a low level type of fear. It's anxiety when you

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Speaker 1: can't see the lion that's chasing you. You think there's

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Speaker 1: a problem, but you don't really know what it is

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Speaker 1: and what to do about it, you know what I mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's absolutely So. What I would like to point out

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Speaker 1: is it could be like a chick inside an egg,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you're the food is there, and you're

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Speaker 1: absorbing the food, and you know there's getting less and

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Speaker 1: less food, and you're getting a little bit anxious because

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Speaker 1: it looks like you're gonna maut of food and oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, that's going to be the end of you.

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Speaker 1: You don't realize that the changes that are taking place

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Speaker 1: within you, and you're getting a bigger body and a

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Speaker 1: stronger body, and now you're going to break out of

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Speaker 1: that eggshell and you're going to be into a whole

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Speaker 1: new world full of other little chicks and sunshine and things.

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Speaker 1: So there's no real way of saying, what's going to

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Speaker 1: come now the word enlightenment, What does that mean to you?

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Speaker 1: You know, I have a definition that I use, and

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Speaker 1: many people would point out that there is no strict definition,

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Speaker 1: but this is the definition that I use, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to start. I have two points that make this up,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna start with a second point because it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit easier for us to get our handle

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Speaker 1: on that being completely free from all selfish or self

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Speaker 1: centered desires and tendencies. So with that, I'm just basically

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Speaker 1: saying being a good person, being a kind person, being

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Speaker 1: a compassionate person. So there's no real oh wow, that's profound.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no I know or heard that before, and

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Speaker 1: that isn't going to happen when I say that. But

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting that some people have definitions of enlightenment

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Speaker 1: that leave that out completely. And it just doesn't make

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Speaker 1: any sense to me to have someone be considered enlightened

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Speaker 1: when they're not a good person a kind person. So

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Speaker 1: that's an important point. And then the first point goes

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Speaker 1: to a deeper truth that might be a little hard

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Speaker 1: to get to right here at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: interview without laying some foundation, but I'll put it on

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Speaker 1: the table anyway. It's being fully awake to the intuitive

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Speaker 1: understanding of your true self as the one divine source awareness,

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Speaker 1: the oneself that arises as all apparent selves. That is

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Speaker 1: probably a very mysterious statement, so we might have to

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Speaker 1: dig into that as the night goes on. Are you

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Speaker 1: finding that people are trying to become a little more enlightened? Oh? Yes, yes, definitely.

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Speaker 1: States sometimes have an urgency about it, which you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't go about this and be urgent about it.

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Speaker 1: You have to relax into it and let it grow naturally.

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Speaker 1: But it can really help if you have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of guidance. And like I said, I started to

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Speaker 1: go to my mentor in two thousand and five, and

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Speaker 1: I just continued to go to those meetings, and it

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Speaker 1: was so interesting to see him be an example and

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Speaker 1: his relax nature and he's at peace, and he's available

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Speaker 1: for kindness and compassion, and so that was inspiring to me.

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Speaker 1: But he was also very helpful in understanding some of

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Speaker 1: these deeper truths about who you really are, who are

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Speaker 1: we anyways, Thomas to one of the points that you

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Speaker 1: bring up on the show many times, and that has

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Speaker 1: to do with this this saying that you've heard. It

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Speaker 1: goes something like this, you are not a human being

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Speaker 1: having a spiritual experience, but instead you are a spiritual

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Speaker 1: being having a human experience. You've heard that before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I consider the first key spiritual awakening.

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Speaker 1: And to rephrase it, you have a soul. So before

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Speaker 1: that you might think I'm just a body. I'm cruising around.

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Speaker 1: Something happens to the body I die. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: the end of me. Boom, that's the end of you.

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Speaker 1: That's your definition of who you are the body. That's

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Speaker 1: a materialist definition of who you are. Well, people like yourself, George,

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Speaker 1: I heard you talking the other night about your own

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Speaker 1: out of body experience. I haven't been able to duplicate it,

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Speaker 1: but I sure have one. How old was it? Eleven? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So the fact that you had it shows you without

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Speaker 1: a doubt that this materialist definition of who you are

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Speaker 1: is at least incomplete. You know, there's more more to

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Speaker 1: you than that. And so I read lots of books

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Speaker 1: about out of body experiences and near depth experience and

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Speaker 1: conscious memory of past lives. And through this I gained

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Speaker 1: both an intellectual understanding to some extent, and I realize

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Speaker 1: that that's a limited understanding because it's only intellectual, but

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Speaker 1: I also had an intuitive understanding. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: experiential understanding that you were able to tap into that

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Speaker 1: I have not yet tapped into that. But all of

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Speaker 1: that points to this truth, this key spiritual understanding, that

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Speaker 1: you have a soul. Now, the soul is involved in

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Speaker 1: the creation of the body, and throughout its entire life,

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Speaker 1: the body and the soul are interacting, you know, tied together.

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Speaker 1: And then at the very end of physical life, the

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Speaker 1: soul drops off. I mean, I'm sorry, the soul drops

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Speaker 1: the body, and by just that's the end of that.

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Speaker 1: So it all over again again, Yes, yeah, And that

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Speaker 1: shows us that the body is not essential to the soul.

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Speaker 1: And then when this awareness, this awakening happens, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people think that this is who they are, that

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Speaker 1: they must fundamentally be a soul. And what I'm suggesting

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Speaker 1: is that we're now going to dig even deeper than that,

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Speaker 1: We're going to step back from the soul. And at

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Speaker 1: that point, the mystic finds out that they exist fundamentally

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Speaker 1: as the power of sentience. They exist as this open

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Speaker 1: capacity for experience. And if I may put this in

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Speaker 1: another set of words, you know you exist, and you

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Speaker 1: know you are a sentient And what I'm saying is

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Speaker 1: that you exist to fundamentally as this power of sentience.

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Speaker 1: When you strip away everything that's not essential to what

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Speaker 1: you are, you end up with this power of sentience,

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Speaker 1: which is not a thing. You are not a thing

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Speaker 1: that is sentient. You are not an object that is aware.

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Speaker 1: You are not a sentient being. You are a sentience itself.

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Speaker 1: And this is the second key awakening. When you were

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Speaker 1: teaching your class at the Center for Lifelong Learning, what

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Speaker 1: did these students want to learn? What were they there for?

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Speaker 1: I would say that they really wanted to relieve their suffering.

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Speaker 1: So they wanted to find out why things that they

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Speaker 1: didn't want, difficult challenges kept arising for them. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of you want to both have relief to that

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Speaker 1: and if you can prevent these things from arising in

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Speaker 1: the first place, learning how to work with them and

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Speaker 1: be a little bit more emotionally accepting of your challenges,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe changing some of your core beliefs in

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Speaker 1: a way where these challenges may not arise. So sharply

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Speaker 1: does that kind of make sense? Yeah, But when they

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Speaker 1: leave the class, how do they leave it? Are they upbeat?

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Speaker 1: Are they puzzle? They leave it? Um? Well, I would

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Speaker 1: say that I didn't have a lot of students on

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Speaker 1: a regular basis, so we were able to deal kind

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Speaker 1: of one on one as a you know, small class

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Speaker 1: allows so they were able to kind of tune into

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Speaker 1: what I was saying and open up to it. I'll

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Speaker 1: put it this way, that class was a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks long. I forget how long it was. But um,

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Speaker 1: even when I heard these ideas, I had to go

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Speaker 1: and think about them for months, and some of them

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Speaker 1: I had been dealing with for years. So this has

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Speaker 1: matured in me for a long period of time. So

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Speaker 1: I hope some of that experience that I've gone through

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Speaker 1: will help me put it on the table a little

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Speaker 1: clear so people can get to the core of what

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Speaker 1: it might be that they might utilize more successfully. Thomas,

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Speaker 1: can you teach kindness or is that within you? You know,

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Speaker 1: it really does come from within, but sometimes you can

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Speaker 1: inspire it either by example. It's hard to teach kindness

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Speaker 1: and words in front of a chalkboard. But sometimes I

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Speaker 1: can put something on the table where someone will go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can see where this other person that I'm having

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Speaker 1: conflict with is. Actually they also are this manifestation of

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Speaker 1: this divine essence. They themselves are thoroughly designed, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to respect them for that, even though we've been

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Speaker 1: clashing horns. So maybe it's a little lessening of that tension.

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Speaker 1: What would happen if a nation practice this as we

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Speaker 1: would as individuals, and instead of being an aggressor or

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Speaker 1: attacking other nations or warring countries, became a nation of

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Speaker 1: kindness and helped other countries out of whatever dilemmas they

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Speaker 1: might have had, whether it's food shortages or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: became a country of being benevolent in kind. What do

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Speaker 1: you think would happen? Well, would be a world transformation

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Speaker 1: if both the leaders and the citizens of that country

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Speaker 1: were joyfully participating in that. And you'll know that. And

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Speaker 1: I like the fact that you put that in such

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Speaker 1: a large scale. And I was talking to a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine from high school who hadn't seen in many,

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Speaker 1: many years. I talked to him recently at a wedding,

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Speaker 1: and he said he was working with people that were

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Speaker 1: having trouble just making a living and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they were trying to help them in

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Speaker 1: these ways. And the point that it's so difficult to

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Speaker 1: make people realize is that you need to change your

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Speaker 1: core beliefs. We're so focused on action. We're going to

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Speaker 1: change our actions. Well, the actions and the core beliefs

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Speaker 1: and the emotions are the three components of conscious creation.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't change the seed, the core seed,

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Speaker 1: the world is a safe place. How could you believe

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Speaker 1: that as a core belief that's so profoundly different from

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Speaker 1: the idea of the world is a dangerous place and

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Speaker 1: I need protection, you know what I'm saying. Absolutely, you

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Speaker 1: wrote an essay about Tookie Williams. Would that be the

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Speaker 1: gangster from La by a chance? Yes, yes it is.

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Speaker 1: And Stanley Stanley took Ye Williams right. Stanley Tookie Williams.

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Speaker 1: He was twelve years old when he got involved in

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Speaker 1: the crips. In fact, he was one of the founding members.

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Speaker 1: He got executed eventually, didn't he in the two thousand

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Speaker 1: lethal injection? I think I think it was two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five the same years all they still had the

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Speaker 1: death penalty exactly, and he was writing these short, little

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Speaker 1: children's books. He had a co author, and he wrote

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Speaker 1: many of them, and they were inspiring children. He was

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Speaker 1: showing them the false promise of gang life, and lots

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Speaker 1: of children were sending him letters telling him that he

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Speaker 1: was the reason that they stayed out of gangs. And

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Speaker 1: I would have thought the state of California would put

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Speaker 1: him on the lecture tour, you know, if he executed

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Speaker 1: him instead, right, the executed him, in said, And when

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Speaker 1: that happened, I was crushed. I was just and I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect to have such a strong emotional reaction. But

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Speaker 1: I had gone to sleep that night and I knew

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Speaker 1: that the execution was scheduled for midnight, and I had

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Speaker 1: gone to sleep at around eleven, and I woke up

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Speaker 1: around a couple of minutes before one, and I knew

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Speaker 1: if I pushed that button on my clock radio, there

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Speaker 1: would be the news coming up at the top of

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Speaker 1: the hour. And sure enough they said he was executed,

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Speaker 1: and I just I just broke down crying. Convicted of

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Speaker 1: murder right four counts. I think something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many counts it was, and he

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Speaker 1: did say was framed. But I'll tell you one thing.

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Speaker 1: As the head of that gang, there was plenty of

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Speaker 1: shall we say, dark deeds done over many decades. So

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Speaker 1: you know the Crips, right, yeah, the Crips, one of

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Speaker 1: the Crips, and the Bloods were two of the main

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Speaker 1: LA gangs. So so anyway, that the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was taken away from his family, now he was in prison.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was a petition to prevent the execution.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a petition to release him, but that petition

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Speaker 1: was not honored and he was executed, and I was

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Speaker 1: just crushed. But when I was crushed, as I felt

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Speaker 1: that tremendous sadness within me, I said, I stepped back

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Speaker 1: from it a little bit, and I said, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to pull this sadness right into me, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to find out what it really is. Because you could

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Speaker 1: have someone tell you about their sadness, or you could

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Speaker 1: try to tell someone about yours. But when it's right there,

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Speaker 1: right there, full emotion, full strength, that's the time to

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Speaker 1: really learn what it is. So as I pulled it in,

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Speaker 1: it just dissolved. My body was still crying, but it

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Speaker 1: just dissolved. And so what I realized is that I

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Speaker 1: could sit in that place little more comfort stepping back

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Speaker 1: from that a place of what I call divine bliss,

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Speaker 1: where I accept the fact that my body is crying

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Speaker 1: and I'm experiencing this very sharp emotional sadness. And I

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Speaker 1: make an analogy of being like a mother holding her

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Speaker 1: crying child, and you can be like both of them,

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Speaker 1: and she can be in bliss while she holds her

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Speaker 1: child because she loves her child so much, she would

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Speaker 1: never reject her child, even though her child at that

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Speaker 1: time is crying. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more