1 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gothy your snowball 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: where we have great long form conversations about people's lives, lives, 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: life's life, life life span within basketball, plus offer up 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: some commentary as well. Here's what I want to do 5 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: for the next couple of balls. I'm gonna put it 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: out on social media Twitter, I G Facebook. Um, if 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: there's a question you have, we'll answer. We're gonna start 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: pumping out these a bit more often now in the 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: college basketball season, in the three to four a week variety, 10 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: and we hope that you get to the holiday season. 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: This is something that you share with a friend by conversation. 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Today is miss Steve Lappets Now. Part of it is 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: this is how schedules work, and this is how Cooper 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: stories work. But laughs and dear friend of mine, he's 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: an unbelievable guy, A guy's guy. I mean this good hang, 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: loves ball, likes to play golf like I just I 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: love him as a guy. Anyway, So last year we 18 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: had him, we had what we called part one, but 19 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: I think they cut it up in the two parts 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: three parts whatever had told his backstory, you know where 21 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: his his dad read a flower shot and I had 22 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: no idea or understanding of his love desire for this 23 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: being called basketball and how he ultimately made it to 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: being head coach in Manhattan. We pick up there where 25 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: where now he's the head coach and going over how 26 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: he got the going over a job, what it was like, 27 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: what it was like losing that job, and was he 28 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: actually fired? How did the reside did what did you reside? 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: What would happened? It's all in here, So we got 30 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: I think two parts for this before we get to 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: my conversation with Steve lapis a couple of of of 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: college basketball thoughts. Now that we have basically a month 33 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: under our belt, right and weird deer where you have 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: so many teams jumping up and winning these guarantee games, 35 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: and in years past you might have you know, five 36 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: ten where it feels like, if you have the six 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: biggest conferences in the country, half the teams have lost 38 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: a guarantee g It's crazy, right, Um, So what's behind that? 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot to it. I mean, obviously 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: the transport portal changes things. Players have always transferred. Players 41 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: have always transferred, but but now you do get guys 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: later in their career find themselves, and they don't want 43 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: to stay be a bench player, fight to be one 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: of the guys that get to their name called. And 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: I think that's what you have. Additionally, and this is 46 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: AU coaching is not perfect. It doesn't set you up 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: perfectly for high score collegiate success because there are a 48 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: lot of things that are different about it, much deeper, 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: thorough level of preparation of execution and coaching when you're 50 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: coaching on an actual team. That said that said, I 51 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: do believe that if you coach AU basketball at a 52 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: high level, you know this wi be true. Oftentimes when 53 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: you add talented players, more talented players than ones you have, 54 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: and you put together and you know, on a Saturday's 55 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: pool play Sunday is bracktet play Saturday is a mess. 56 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out who you play, how you 57 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: playing together, or what can you run. Not every great 58 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: player plays well another great player, when every good player 59 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: plays well, etcetera, etcetera. And that's the micro and the macro. 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: That's what happens in college basketball. You know, you have 61 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: a base of guys you're bringing back to last year, 62 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: and let's be honest, they're coming back for another year. Um, 63 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: some because they like their role most because they believe 64 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: their roles expand by coming back. Uh, they're not good 65 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: enough to play in the NBA, although don't tell them that. 66 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: It's just they haven't been given the role. With the 67 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: show how good they're playing the NBA. So when you 68 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: add new pieces, it takes a while. It takes off 69 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: for the coaches, it takes off for the players kind 70 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: of figure out, and you're not going to be as 71 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: good as you ultimately will be once you figured out. 72 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: Once figured out, because just like players, you know, you 73 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: have to have players only have one exagenda. And oftentimes 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: sometimes you can start the season that way and then 75 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: you get to this part of the year and it's 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: not But by the time you get to usually late 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: January January, that's where you know you because it's just 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: about winning and about getting to the tournament, about trying 79 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: to win the tournament when you lead. Such the point 80 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: is that December basketball generally, I mean the way I've 81 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: always approached every game is to win, right what gives 82 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: you the best chance to win. But I mean, even 83 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: with that mentality, if you're coaching in a U team, 84 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: you gotta keep everybody in the team. You're gonna have 85 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: to play some guys a little bit more even on 86 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: Saturdays than you would on Sundays. So I think that's 87 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: the that's my hypotheses on why there's been so many 88 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: guarantee game wins. I think a lot of these high 89 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: major teams also maybe their top end isn't as good 90 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: as it used to be, and the mid major low 91 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: end majors maybe better than it used to be. I'm 92 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: not not sure, um, but that's the hypothesis. I was 93 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: actually really impressed with Texas and their loss, obviously impressed 94 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: with the ILLINOISI epskin is gonna be fantastic. But learning 95 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: how to learning how to finish off on a poem 96 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: an opponent is definitely a taught and learned skill, and 97 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: I don't think Texas necessarily hasn't yet. They struggle to 98 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: put away crighton a week ago as a Shireman hit 99 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: a couple of hit three late threes, and that thing 100 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: became a ballgame and they had Illinois eight. It's one 101 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: of the one of the interesting parts that as we 102 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: go on this season, interview people, Um, if you've Virginia, 103 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: for example, doesn't run block remover, they don't run motion 104 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: nearly as much, probably at all. They run some ball 105 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: screen continuity to run some mother stuff. Don't get me 106 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: wrong that Tony had to kind of involved with the 107 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: time um texas a little bit more traditional kind of motion. 108 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: The problem with the problem with letting guys play is 109 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: you can't necessarily determine where the shots come from. It's 110 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: always been my issue with motion basketball. It's it's not 111 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: to stop because you can't really scout it because a 112 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: really good motion team they just read what you do 113 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: and they do the office and that five minute, pure 114 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: five man motion is beautiful basketball. But again, the problem 115 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: with it is you can't as a coach determine where 116 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: the specific shots come from. And oftentimes a good defensive 117 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: team can make your worst shooter shoot a ball at 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: a spot where you don't want him to shoot because 119 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: they just leave him open and Darren right, and they 120 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: load up on your best players. So the point is, 121 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: I do think that one of the flaws, if not 122 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: the biggest, and maybe only flawed, the true motion basketball, 123 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: in addition the fact it's not taught on lower level 124 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: and so it takes a while for guys to truly 125 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: learn it, is that it does it doesn't allow for 126 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: the coach to really determine who's on shooting the ball 127 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: in what what late game situations. And I think Texas 128 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: to to a certain extent, they suffered now for one 129 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: or one possession away from putting that game away. Not 130 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: some of that speaks to Illinois. Um. You know, I 131 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: thought through Texas car drove in the lane on the 132 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: last possession of regulation when they when they got the 133 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: bothus seven seconds and changed to go, he had uh 134 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: sergebar open on a wing and shows instead of play 135 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: hero like. Again, some of that has to do the set. 136 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: It's just to get over themselves. And I'm the open man. 137 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: But I do think there's a portion of of some 138 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: of these teams. The best teams put you up. They 139 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: put you up. They just know it's And I understand 140 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: you said they're going like, well, what about NBA teams. 141 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: There's such a high volume three point shots of possessions 142 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: of talent um that yes, fourth in the fourth quarter, 143 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: most NBA games become tied, but then the better team 144 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: usually puts the other team away. What I'm talking about 145 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: is if that game is eight, you get it to 146 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: ten or twelve, and it's over. If it's sixteen, you 147 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: get to twenty, it's over. And Texas did not show 148 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: the ability yet to do it. I'm gonna get Danny 149 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: Curley on the pod. I'm gonna get Bobby, not get 150 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: them together, but I wanna this is this is a 151 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: great way to show who's listening, because somebody's gonna tell 152 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: this story before I have them, or Kevin Willard on, like, 153 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: I love what Danny's gonna do to the Big East. 154 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: He's gonna march through the Big East with both middle 155 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: fingers blazing and and stomp on that lead. I played 156 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: against I think it was a freshman year, notre name, 157 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: and he was a really good solid point Obviously, when 158 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: your brother is one of the greatest point guards in 159 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: the history of the sport, that's a hard shadow to overcome. 160 00:09:53,640 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: But the ship he used to endure every game, every game, obviously, 161 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: she made him who he is today. You know that 162 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: the constant chance of Bobby's better other brother, you know, 163 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and we don't know, and and then you'd have like 164 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: our guy, we didn't talk. We weren't good enough to 165 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: talk to Danny, But I know other guys, did you 166 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: know you talked talked about him? Because his brother is 167 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: better or whatever, and Danny is a super competitive guy. 168 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: What's crazy is like he was a really really good player, 169 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: but his brother was like an all time great, So 170 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: it's it ends up making him look like he was 171 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: he was some schlub. When he wasn't a slub. He 172 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: was a really good player. I played against him, he 173 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: was a bit. He was so hard to play against. 174 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: Bitch in it in a very good connotation. Um, but 175 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: I love the march through the Big East, you know 176 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: all those places that gave him ship, And I know 177 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: the league different now and people forget I guaranteed Danny 178 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: had no way as The other guy who I want 179 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: to get on is Kevin, and Kevin's got that thing 180 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: going in Maryland, and Maryland's a um. They don't really 181 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: fit the big tent. There's a nastiness to Maryland fans 182 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: because so many of them are these Northeastern suburb kids 183 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: and all they know is fans is to be assholes 184 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: right there. They're much more in the Syracuse variety. They're 185 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: much more in the like you picked in the Northeastern 186 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: fan base, like their fans are they just two different? 187 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: Is it collegial? Yeah? But it's a there's a lot 188 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: like the reason they were chanting fuck you JJ back 189 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: in the day was that's Maryland fans on right. They 190 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: just are for whatever reason. There's just a different edge 191 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: to them than there are most in the in the 192 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: Big ten. Now. I do know that Indiana. I've been 193 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: told by a lot of Indiana people that fan base 194 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: has an edge now because they've been beaten down for 195 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: so long after so much success, that the new wave 196 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: of students and fans there are a lot edgier. Um. 197 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: I also would tell you like that the bar stoolization 198 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: of so many of these fan bases, you know, and 199 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: and you know bar stool is obviously super successful, but 200 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: what is it. It's you know, it's joking, the fire 201 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: of the ship talking fans, that's what it is. That 202 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: we can say anything and do anything whatever. Well it's 203 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: I mean this I think first happened with message boards. 204 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: It's kind of that same sort of guy. And uh, 205 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: they get off on saying on some levels vile stuff 206 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: that is humorous and twenty years ago probably wasn't pushing 207 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: the envelope of good taste. But it's not really in 208 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: good taste. And I think Maryland has that sort of 209 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: group of five. It's an It's like I know that 210 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: that it were out Markertian the no matter what you did, 211 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: they weren't happy with it unless you not just one, 212 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: but you killed. It's a different mentality. It does not 213 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: fit the big tent. But when it's going good, like 214 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: that place is a fucking snake pit. So part of 215 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: me and so when you hear me talk about probably 216 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: like oh that eight very like no, I just it 217 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: just is what it is. Right. There are just certain 218 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: places that that the fans are nastier. You know. It's 219 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: like I remember, I say this all the time about Nebraska, 220 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: like they're so nice to you, Nebraska, you honestly think 221 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: like they're stealing your way. They're so nice, even at 222 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: Creighton where they have an incredible fan base. Or you know, 223 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: I remember we were playing Nebraska. This is early February, goddamn. 224 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: So we're warming up and we had lost the Creton 225 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: that year, great um, but we'd also lost the Florida 226 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: Atlantic wins, lost the por Atlantic. They would read our 227 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: preseason prognostication and quotes and like they had they had 228 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: planned this. They were waiting for us, but they were 229 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: the nicest dudes ever, right, Like you could like you 230 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: could look at them and they start laughing. Whereas when 231 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: you play in the Northeast and you played some of 232 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: these places, Okay, they're just mean and there's there's no 233 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: back and forth human interaction. There's no That was a 234 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: good one. That's funny. Anyway, Um, Kevin Willard Park that 235 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: I want to tell is I want him to tell 236 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: the story. You know, he had a year left of 237 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: eligibility at Pittsburgh and he decided not to play and 238 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: went to work for Rick Pettino and the Celtics when 239 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: his dad was with the Celtics. You know, So, I mean, 240 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: just think about that for for a second on if 241 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: you're you're a college basketball players a starting point guarded 242 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: pit and look, pitt was a it was a tough one, right. 243 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: You had at the time, you had um Fontigo Cummings, 244 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: he is my year that when I was said when 245 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: he was the other point guard, was like the second 246 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: their point guard. They had Ice McCulla Jerry McCullough, who 247 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: was he was filthy. He was so good and he 248 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: would come into the game and like he get mercifully booed. 249 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: It's one thing to boo a kid or a jeer 250 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: a kid when he's on the road, but it would 251 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: happen at home at Pittsburgh. It was so it was 252 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: disgraceful just because he's a coach's son that was a 253 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: good player, man. Um. But I I do I wonder, 254 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: as those guys coach now, how much of that is 255 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: part of what's made them, how much of that is 256 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: still in their minds? How much so that makes them 257 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: want to go into arena's and with the game and 258 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: then drop a big f you to anybody and everybody 259 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: who I mean, especially for Kevin to go to Pittsburgh, 260 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: how they how they treat him like his dad's a 261 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: wonderful dude. Kevin is an amazing guy really, like I 262 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: would love to tell you like nice, Really he's not. 263 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: He's an incredibly balanced gay. Um, and I think he's 264 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: a really good coach. But I just I do wonder 265 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: how those guys process those things and how it has 266 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: shaped them or has to shaped them, or do they 267 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: even remember. All right, let's uh, that's enough rambling. Let's 268 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: get to part two and they'll be part three. This 269 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: is Steve Lapis. So when we last talked with lap 270 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: he was really successful in Manhattan. Remember he had been 271 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: a long time assistant. He had been assistant for four 272 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: years at Villan Opencley when they won the natural championship. 273 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: And we'll put that pot up so we you so 274 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: can get these insequential order. But here's my conversation with 275 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: Steve lap Is starting. It's getting the Villa Nova job. 276 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 277 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports 278 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. 279 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: Search f s R to listen live. So, la last 280 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: time we talked, Okay, I remember exactly where we left off. 281 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: You got the Nova job. Okay, so you you get 282 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: the Nova job. How old were you at the time. 283 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: I was thirty eight, okay, thirty eight, And you've been 284 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: a successful head coach in Manhattan and now you come 285 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: back to to Nova. Um First, what do you what 286 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: do you remember about kind of the whirlwind of getting 287 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: the job? Well, you know, it was it was an 288 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: interesting story getting the job. Obviously I didn't believe that 289 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: Rollie left to go to Las Vegas. Let me just 290 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: say that to start with. So I get a phone 291 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: call from row Lea. This is when I wasn't even 292 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: thinking about Villani. I was a Manhattan coach. I get 293 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: a phone caller role like two o'clock in the morning 294 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: on Steve Wins plane and he tells and he tells me, 295 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm taking the Vegas job, And I said, come hi. 296 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: I thought he was. You know, this is what he 297 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: made calls at two o'clock in the morning a lot. 298 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: So that was not a surprise that he called me 299 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: at two o'clock in the morning. He's doing all the time. 300 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: He did all the time when I was an assistant. 301 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: So I was like, get out of here, coach man, 302 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: you're not going to Las Vegas. He goes, just I 303 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: am he So Jay was on Jay right was on 304 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: the plane with him. He said, here, Jay, you tell 305 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: lab so Ja gets on the phone and says, Lap, 306 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: we're going to Las Vegas. I said, really, I said, 307 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: so I get I said, put coach back on the phone. 308 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: I said, coach, of all the places to go, you're 309 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: gonna go to U n l V, Like, there's a 310 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: zillion better places for you than U n LV following 311 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: Jerry Tarkanian and plus you know, just the the difference 312 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: in the state school private school. I'm like, are you crazy, 313 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm taking it? So he takes the job. So naturally, 314 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: as soon as he takes the job, I'm thinking like, well, 315 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: I mean I was an assistant there for the championship team. 316 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: We gotta go in Manhattan, you know, I gotta have 317 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: a chance at this thing. So naturally, that's all I'm 318 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: thinking about. I started trying to work the phones with 319 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: some of the alums and people that had gotten to 320 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: know there, and you know, I find out that, you know, 321 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: they wanted Pete Gillham. They wanted Pete had been an 322 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: assistant there too, and so you know, Pete had a 323 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: really good job at Xavier at the time, and uh, 324 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: they wanted Pete. So I was like distraught, Like you know, 325 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: it was like I said, hey, and and I had 326 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: heard that Pete was on campus, so uh, I said, 327 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: if he's going to campus at a school that he's 328 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: already been at, you know, and knows it, he's taking 329 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: the job, so lo and behold, Pete doesn't take the job, 330 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: decides he wants to stay at Savior, and now things 331 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: are open. So I have a couple of the lums 332 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: that are helping me that really liked me, but they 333 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: kind of opened it up. I remember they interviewed, they 334 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: interviewed Mike Jarvis, they interviewed Nick mccartchick, they interviewed, uh, 335 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: Barry or Bruce Parkkill, one of the Parkill brothers that 336 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: was at Penn State at the time. Um, so I 337 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: was like, I'm I'm in Like, you know, I'm in 338 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: a horse race here. So again though, I had some 339 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 1: people on the inside helping me a little bit. And 340 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, when I went and I met with the president, 341 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: he uh liked me and he said he hired me 342 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: because I showed him that fire I had in my belly, 343 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: which is kind of you know, it's kind of how 344 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: I how I operate anyway on everything. And uh, that's 345 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: how I got the job. So I really didn't think 346 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: I was gonna get it. Uh, and then I was 347 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: in a horse race and then I got it. So 348 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: it was you know, obviously a huge thing for me 349 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: to get that job at that time. So yeah, it 350 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Whirlwind White coach lead. First question is why 351 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: coach Lead. Well, it's a good question. Obviously, Coach Mass 352 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: had tremendous success of Villanova. You know, the when everybody 353 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: knows about winning the championship, but people forget he'd also 354 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: been to you know, four final eights, uh in his 355 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: career there, including my last year as an assistant coach there. 356 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: We went to the Elite eight. Um. But he had 357 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: started to uh, I don't know how to say where 358 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: out his welcome, but you know, he was had a 359 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: couple of down years and I t um, just things 360 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: not going great, and he got into this controversy with 361 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: a cheerleader over a cheerleader wanting to have a ponytail. 362 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: You know, those are different times, you know, the early 363 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: nineties lay the eighties and uh. You know, so he 364 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: got into a controversy about that and that didn't do well. 365 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: So when he left, it was kind of like as 366 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: crazy as it sounds when you look back at the time, 367 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: it was a good time from the Leaf. I'm not 368 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: surprised that he left, even though I can tell you this, 369 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: he could have stayed there forever. They had have never 370 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: fired him in a million years, nor should they, But 371 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: he just I don't think he was feeling the love anymore. 372 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: And now you and LV was, you know, Steve Wynn 373 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: was whining and dining him and really shown him the 374 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: love and obviously showing him a lot of money, and uh, 375 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: I think put it all together, that's why he left, 376 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: and I think it's something that he regretted. I think 377 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: he regretted that till the day he died. And I 378 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: think he knows he could have stayed at villainover forever 379 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: had he been able to. You know, you go through 380 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: these ups and downs. I mean you look at Jay 381 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: right now. You know, seven before the two thousand and 382 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: sixteen Championship, they were on him about not getting through 383 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: the first round, in the second round and get to 384 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: the second weekend. You know, his Jay's thing of Villano 385 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: was a little tenuous at that time, but he made 386 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: it through, you know, and it happens to a lot 387 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: of people. And you know, coach Mass was in a 388 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: tenuous time and he just didn't want to see it 389 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: through to get to the other side like he would 390 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: have and stay there forever. So I think in the 391 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: end he regretted, you know, going to you and then 392 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: it didn't work out at you n l V obvious 393 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: the only lasted two years, two and a half years, 394 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: and they had his the regents said he had an 395 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: illegal contract and got ugly and it just it didn't. 396 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: It didn't do him well for what he deserved. No, no, um. 397 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: When when you get a job like that that you 398 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: badly wanted and keeping mind and you know you wanted, 399 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: member left the job. A contemporary turned down the job 400 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: and to Pete Gillen, right like you, I each job 401 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: so bad you're blind any of the flaws. Whereas other 402 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: guys they would have said, hey, you know this will 403 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: work a lot better if you did X, y Z, 404 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: you get the job, had you spent any time thinking 405 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 1: there's there there's gotta be a teuble of downsides here 406 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: other than just they were on rolling. You know, I 407 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: really didn't think of any downside, Doug. You know, because 408 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: I was there for four years and assistant, I kind 409 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: of knew the place well. I knew the history, which was, 410 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, besides the fact that it's been enhanced in 411 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: the last seven years. You know, as a basketball school, 412 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: it was you know, as had as good a tradition 413 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: as a lot of people, maybe not North Carolina Duke, 414 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: but certainly had a really good tradition. So you know, 415 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: you always worried like in those days, you know, Prop 416 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: four y eight existed, and so you knew you knew 417 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: the place like going over, you couldn't take a Prop 418 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: fourty eight kid. Whereas prior to Prop forty eight, when 419 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: kids didn't sit out, nobody knew what a kid's s 420 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: a T score was. And I'm not gonna tell you 421 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: that if Illanova we didn't have a kid or two 422 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: who ended up graduating and we're successful whose s A 423 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: T s had there been Prop forty eight wouldn't have 424 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: met it. But nobody knew because the kid didn't have 425 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: to sit out. So now Prop fourty eight comes in 426 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 1: and they tell me we can't take a proper forty eight. 427 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: We're not gonna have a kid of Villanova who's sitting 428 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: out his freshman year, and the whole world knows obviously 429 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: that he didn't make sement on drain his s A T. 430 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: So if you want to say that was a little 431 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: bit of a negative because it kind of narrowed your 432 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: pool down a little bit, maybe, But other than that, 433 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got a great academic school in an 434 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: unbelievable location, with a great tradition, in a great league. Yeah, 435 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, you knew you were up against it because 436 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: you had Syracuse, you had all these you know, big 437 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: schools that neces big, but you know Carrier Dome and 438 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: you know all these other schools that were in the 439 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: league at the time that wasn't lou wasn't gonna make 440 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: it easy. But I just I was positive about it 441 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: from day one. I was gung ho and didn't see 442 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: a lot of negatives. Um so you get the job. 443 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: How did you decide to put together that staff? Well, 444 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: I I decided that, uh number one, I was gonna 445 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: take with me two of the guys I had at 446 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: Manhattan College, John Leonard who played at Manhattan UM and 447 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: and uh Steve Penone who was a walk on at 448 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: Villandova was on my staff at Manhattan also at the time. 449 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: And then, uh, I wanted I wanted to open it 450 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: up and the truth be told, Villanova had not had 451 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: an African American assistant for probably ten years prior to 452 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: me getting there, and I thought it was very important 453 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: to have an African American on the staff, at least 454 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: one African American on the staff. I thought that was important, 455 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: and uh so I hired Paul Hewitt, who was terrific 456 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: and obviously you know, had terrific success that that. You know, 457 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: Sienna and Georgia Tech and now he's coaching in the 458 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: G League in the NBA, and uh and he did 459 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: a tremendous job. So that's kind of how the staff 460 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: came together. And then I had a basketball ops guy 461 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: that was a high school coach that I had known 462 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: from working at camps with me. And in those days, 463 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: that job paid very little, It's not like now, so 464 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: you had to get a specific guy who was willing 465 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: to make that kind of a sacrifice. But the staff 466 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: itself was John Leonard was a top assistant with Paul 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: Hewitt and Steve Pannone and you know, it was a 468 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: very good staff and they did a great job. And 469 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: Paul came from Virginia University of Virginia. Paul came from Fordham. 470 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: He was an assistant at Forham to Nick mccartchick. And 471 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: he was only he played at St. John Fisher in Rochester. 472 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: And uh, he was only at Fordham, I want to say, 473 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: one year maybe two years before I hired him in Villanova. 474 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: And uh, you know he he was. He was a 475 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: terrific interview, which is no surprise. Um, and uh, you know, 476 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: he just he blew me away. And you know, I 477 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: hired him and and like I said, he did it. 478 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: He did a tremendous job. Now he's a brilliant guy, 479 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: but he's kind now at this stage, he's like he's 480 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: kind of professed Oreo. I wonder if he was like 481 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: that even at the young age. He was always together. 482 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: He was always a very philosophical guy. There's no question 483 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: about it. You know, we would get into philosophical arguments 484 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: about things, um, you know, not just basketball, the world, 485 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, things like that. So it 486 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: was h he had a great family and it was 487 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: it was a great fit with Obviously it's very you know, 488 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: when you put his staff together, you kind of want 489 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: to try to do it sort fits, but you never 490 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: know if it's gonna fit. And you know, this one 491 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: fit pretty good. What what what was left when he 492 00:28:53,600 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: got there? Well, um, what was left was a a 493 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: senior class that was very highly rated, but people considered underachieving. 494 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: So I had like five seniors and and when they 495 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: came in, it was like, you know, I don't know 496 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: if you probably remember the names, you know, Aaron Baine 497 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: was like, you know, I don't know, people remember Aaron 498 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: Baine was a guy who was a top ten guy 499 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: in the country when he was a freshman sophomore in 500 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: high school, and Lance Miller and James Bryson and Calvin 501 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Bird was a McDonald's All American um. So it was 502 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: a very very highly rated and there was another Anthony 503 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: Pell was a junior. It was a very highly rated 504 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: recruiting class that really didn't do a lot. So it 505 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: was a tough situation for them and for me to 506 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: come in. Seniors hadn't accomplished a lot. They didn't know 507 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: me because I left bill Ova. I I left Villanova. 508 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: You know, before these guys came in, I recruited Lance Miller, 509 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: so I knew these kids, and I recruited James Bryson, 510 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: but I never coached them. So here they were. They 511 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: were playing for a legend. You got this young guy 512 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: coming in their senior year. They underachieved and we just 513 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: we lost a ton of close games. And you know, 514 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it wasn't easy connecting with 515 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: these guys and getting them, you know what I mean 516 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: to buy in after being with such a strong guy 517 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: like coach mass underachieving coming in, I think some of 518 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: the guys felt like, all right, now I'm gonna do 519 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: my thing, and you know, I think a couple of 520 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: them trying to do their thing and it just it 521 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: didn't work out because we lost a ton of close games. 522 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: We had some good wins. We beat Syracuse at Syracuse 523 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: when they were like number two in the country, and 524 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: so we had some talent, but we just lost a 525 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: million close games. How are you as a coach? How 526 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: are you handling those emotions? Right as you said, you're 527 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: you had the fire in your belly and now you 528 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: get to a dream job and it's not going as 529 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: well as you'd like. How are you? You know, the 530 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: feeling more than anything else. Doug was, the Cavalry is 531 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: coming next year. In that you know, uh, we had 532 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: already we had signed Alvin Williams and Jason Lawson and 533 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: Rashid Wallace was coming to every one of our games. 534 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: He one of the kids that we inherited who was 535 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: a great kid and a really good player and one 536 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: of the and maybe the best leader I've headed. With 537 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: Jonathan Haynes, he was also we talked about that senior class, 538 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: but Jonathan Haynes was also on that team, and he 539 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: was a key guy because he was he was he 540 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: was he transferred from Temple and he was rolled these 541 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: first recruit from Philadelphia in a long time. So we 542 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: had this one Philly kid on our team. He happened 543 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 1: to be friends, really good friends with Alvin Williams and 544 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: Jason Lawson and him and Rashid Walls were best friends. 545 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: So now Rashid would come to every game and he'd 546 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: come in the locker room after we lose whatever. Being 547 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: the locker room, he'd commit and said, coach, don't worry, 548 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: this ain't happening next year. And I go home the 549 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: happiest guy in the world because I'm gonna have Alvin Williams, 550 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: Jason Lawson, Rashid Wallace, uh, Jonathan Haynes and you know 551 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: my assistance with Joco. They said, Coach, it's not gonna 552 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: be fair. I said, well, that's all right. You don't 553 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: have to be fair. You just want to get them all. 554 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: So and Raschi committed to me three times. He came. 555 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: He was in every game, Like I said that, because 556 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: his boys were playing for me, and I mean his 557 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: boy John Haynes, and he knew album was common. They 558 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: were friends, and I mean, Rashi was the best high 559 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: school player in the country and so u um he 560 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: he came into my office. I'll never forget and he 561 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: said the coach, when next year, can I get room 562 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: three twenty two in St. Mary's Hall. I said, Rushi, 563 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: you can get three twenty two, three twenty three, and 564 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: three four. You're gonna have them all. And then so 565 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: I said, Rushi, I know you're coming. Why don't you 566 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: have a press conference? He said, oh no, I'm gonna 567 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: have a press conference. You know, because you know, there 568 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: is a verbal commitment. So I'm like Rushi because he 569 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: didn't sign early because he didn't have his sa T 570 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: scores yet, he wanted to wait. So I said, Rashi, Rushi, listen, Okay, 571 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: have you press conference. That's so, just have a press conference. No, no, 572 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have the press conference. So, you know again, 573 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: that's who got me through that year. Was all right, 574 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: we'll do the best we can. These kids. And they 575 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: were good kids, those seniors, you know what I mean, 576 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: why I don't I don't blame them, they were I mean, 577 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: I have a good relationship with all those kids to 578 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: this day. But we just didn't play good. And so 579 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: I knew. I said, let me get to the end 580 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 1: of the year. These kids are gonna leave, they're gonna graduate. 581 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to leave with a good taste in their 582 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: mouth too about what we tried to do. And uh 583 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: and then next year, you know, the the troops are coming. 584 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: So that's who got me through the year in A. 585 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: In A had a tough time for sure. So there 586 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: she thing go down. Well what happened was, you know, 587 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: it was three schools. It was Temple, it was us 588 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: by ourselves basically, I thought, and Temple in North Carolina. 589 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: He definitely don't want to go to Temple. He just 590 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: didn't want to go to school in downtown Philadelphia. And 591 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: I think there was a lot of pressure because everybody 592 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: knew he was coming to Villanova, and I think a 593 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: lot of people pressured him that, you know, if you're 594 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: not gonna go to Temple where John Cheney was, who 595 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: was a legend, you're gonna go play at Villanova this guy. 596 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: And I think those feelings ended up chasing him out 597 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: of town. I really believe that to this day. And 598 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: uh so I don't think the fact that that that 599 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: and he was never going to Temple, but he didn't 600 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: want to go there for whatever reason, you know what 601 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: I mean. I think, like I said it was and 602 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: John Jane obviously one of the greatest coaches who ever lived, 603 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: and it was was winning all kinds of games at 604 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: that time. But the kid just didn't want to go 605 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,439 Speaker 1: to go to school in Philadelphia. And I just think that, 606 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people don't understand this recruiting stuff is 607 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: weird that you know sometimes that it's not he wants 608 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: to go, he doesn't want to go. Sometimes in a 609 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: situation like this, I really feel that it was like, 610 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: if you're not going to Temple, you're gonna stay in 611 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: the city. No, you should go. And I think a 612 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: lot of people talk to me to leave it. And 613 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: and I was both Carolina, it was Dean Smith talking about, 614 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, chup livery here either and they won the championship. 615 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: And apparently they win the championship and Dean Smith didn't 616 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: go to the parade the next day. He went to 617 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: Raschid's house. Now, even with all that, and let me 618 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: tell you about how we recruited him, Doug, because in 619 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: those days, you know, you couldn't go talk to him. 620 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: He would lift weights every day. Either me or one 621 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: of my assistants would be outside where he was lifting weights. 622 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Just a way back when he walked out, because he 623 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: could talk to him every day, every day. Um so, 624 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: I mean we talk about and you know, you know, 625 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: because you're you've been in basketball. Your dad was a 626 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: coach and your brothers a coach. You know when they 627 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: say we lived with him, oh we lived with him? No, 628 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: my I mean my dad. My dad would tell me 629 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: stories about in the in the seventies, how he literally 630 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: lived with some of the recruits. Like the parents would 631 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: be like, don't get a hotel to stay here. Now 632 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: he would he he'd sign a kid and you just 633 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: babysit if he'd actually lived with him, you know, and 634 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: then they changed it to her. Now okay, now you 635 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: can't make contact, but you'd just be there for a 636 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: bump as often as as often as possible. Um, what 637 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: is that like when you get the call that he's 638 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: not coming. Let me tell you something. I had just 639 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: landed at Philadelphia Airport and I was driving back to campus. 640 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: And you know, in those days, nineteen you know, I 641 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: D two. We had cell phone was a cell phone 642 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: was like a big walkie talking they used to use 643 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: in the army in World War Two. I don't know 644 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: if you remember those things. So I had one of 645 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: those in my car and it rings and I'll never forget. 646 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: I pick up the phone and uh and Raschid said, hey, coach, 647 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: it's sheet And I'm like, oh no, this this, this, 648 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: this can't be good. This can't be good. And so 649 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: he says, I'll never forget. You didn't say North Carolina 650 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: And he said I decided to go to U n C. 651 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, rash, I mean all the time, 652 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 1: everything that we've talked about, and you know, I can't 653 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: believe it. And he said, Coach, you know, I just 654 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: I made my mind up. So I didn't. I didn't 655 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: try to talk him out of it. Be honest with you, 656 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: I didn't, you know, I figured to keep calling me. 657 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: At that point, he was set. He knew everything about us. 658 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna certainly wasn't gonna bad mouth Dean Smith 659 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: or North Carolina and nothing the bad mouth I'm about. 660 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: And uh, that was almost drove off the road. I 661 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: can tell you that when he when he when he 662 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: when he called me, and I'll tell you this. So 663 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: he has a press conference two days later. The conference. 664 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: Now now he was having the press conference as the 665 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: press conference. I'll never forget this so on the news 666 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: they played the song by James Taylor Going to Carolina. 667 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,439 Speaker 1: I swear to God, every time I hear that song 668 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: and I love James Taylor, I gotta turn it off. 669 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: I can't listen to it to this day. I can't 670 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: listen to the song Going to Carolina by James Taylor 671 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: because they played at his press conference and I never 672 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: ever forgot it. So every time that song comes on, 673 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 1: I think about Rushie Wallace, so I shut it off. Um. 674 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: So you do have a new group of freshman um 675 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: and they became really, really, really good. Um, so you 676 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: process the guys. You you guy, you don't get what 677 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: the guys you do get? What was that first year 678 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: like it was? You know, it was really interesting and 679 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: we had a heck of a year. We basically we 680 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: ended up like sixteen and twelve. Now you got understand 681 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: in that big East we were five hundred and we 682 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: were like you know, when you think about r p 683 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: I s and stuff, which really didn't exist that we 684 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: were like you know, in the in the fifties. We 685 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: were like the last or first one of the first 686 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: two teams left out of the tournament that year. So 687 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: we had a good year but you know, you talk 688 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: about recruiting now, and I know you remember us because 689 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: you played against us. But so I watched my first 690 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: year when I had those seniors, we also had three 691 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: freshmen carry kittles who we knew was gonna be something special, 692 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: Eric Ebers and a kid named Roscoe Harris. Now we 693 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: knew kids are gonna be good. Eric Ebers was so 694 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: bad his freshman year. He I didn't know he was. 695 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: He couldn't make a shot, he was too small to 696 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: be a fore man. He couldn't shoot to be a 697 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: three man. I said, what I killed my assistance to 698 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: go get us a small forward. We had a kid 699 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: committed name uh. I don't know if you remember, Jamal Robinson. 700 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: It was actually an assistant the sound. I believe he 701 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: was a good player. In Virginia. We recruited so many 702 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: really good small forces, didn't get anyone, and I was like, 703 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: this is ridiculous time. I mean, we're in trouble at 704 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: this now. We got Alvin Williams, we got Jason Lawson, 705 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: and I said, you know we're gonna be in big trouble. 706 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: You know, we've got no small forwards. So we're playing 707 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 1: an early December game at Georgetown and we're getting fouled 708 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: trouble and they were ranked at the time and we 709 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: got I got nobody, but I put Hebrews in the game. 710 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: The guy makes three threes. He didn't make a three 711 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: as a freshman, not one. I watched him practice every day, 712 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: and I tell him to this day, Eric, I swear 713 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: to God, I watched you practice every day and thought 714 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: you were scrubbed. Well. From that day on, he scored 715 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: fifth hundred points in his career, and he was right 716 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: under my nose and I thought he couldn't play. So, 717 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, so now Eric Evers become something we didn't expect. 718 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: We knew Lawson was gonna be really good. We had 719 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: Kittles who became now, you know, an All American as 720 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: a as a sophomore, first team All Big East, and 721 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, this thing just fell together. And 722 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, we missed the the n A Tournament by 723 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: a game. And we had John Haynes and we had 724 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: a kid named Ron Wilson who we who we inherited 725 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: from coach mass who hadn't really done anything, and you know, 726 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: we we end up winning the n I t that 727 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: year and the n I T was. It was the 728 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: I always say this, Doug, the n i T is 729 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: great with a young team like we had. We had 730 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: all freshmen and sophomore so it was good. But it's 731 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: definitely a championship you don't want to defend. And so 732 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: u um, you know, we we wanted that year and 733 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: uh you know, and then but I think that helped 734 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: us take off. And it was a sould down Mads 735 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: the Square Garden. We were down to Billy McCaffrey and 736 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: Vanderbilt seventeen and a halftime, and we ended up winning 737 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: that game and winning the n i T with that 738 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: team as freshman software so you could see it's coming. 739 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: You could see it. I know, you had won a 740 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: national championship as part of that staff and you've done 741 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: a lot of things, but as the New Yorker, it 742 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: was a little different to win the Garden. Oh yeah, 743 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean to win the Garden and and you know, 744 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: to fast forward a year, you know, probably the best 745 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,399 Speaker 1: win of my career was, you know, we we beat 746 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: yukon the Big East Championship game the next year in 747 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: the Garden. And there's no question, you know, you grew up. 748 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: I grew up. I used to go to the garden 749 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: because I lived in Washington Heights. It was a twenty 750 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: minute subway right away. When I was a kid, I 751 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: go down there all the time. It was like a 752 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: dream and I got I have a picture in my 753 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: basement cutting the net down in Maddison Square Garden. It's 754 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 1: like the greatest You put this right, The greatest moment 755 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: of my professional life was that night in Maddison Square Garden. 756 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: Was being kind, was beating yukon that night because for 757 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: couple of reasons, one didn't have a lot of success 758 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: in the n c A tournament obviously, which is a 759 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: big reason why you know I end up him broadcasting. Um. 760 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was that was the biggest. I mean, 761 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: we won a state championship in New York when I 762 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: was coaching in high school, and we won a MAC 763 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: championship and when I was in Manhattan. But yeah, that 764 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: was the biggest moment of my professional life. And here's 765 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: the crazy thing, Doug, four days Layer, I had the 766 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: lowest moment of my professional life. Yea, And that is 767 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: what's so crazy about this business. The highest moment to 768 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: the lowest moment in four days. But that's what happens. 769 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: Um Okay, so Kittles was there when you got there, right, 770 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: But the stories of him were he was just so skinny, 771 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: right that that was the that that was the That 772 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: was how they got him, like how they get carried 773 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 1: kills to know, well, he's the crazy thing. He had. 774 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: His schools were Vanderbilt, Tulane, and Villenos Okay, here's a 775 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: kid from New Orleans that l as you didn't recruit. 776 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,240 Speaker 1: So that tells you that he wasn't that. I mean, yeah, 777 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: he might have been a top hundred kid, hundred and 778 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: fifty kid, but he wasn't a top thirty kid, so 779 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't want him because he was skinny. 780 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: Truth be told. Now I get the job, Doug, and 781 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: that's you. The first thing I do is I call 782 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: the three recruits. Carry. Kittles was coming in, and Eric 783 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 1: Ebers was coming in, and Roscoe Harris was coming in. So, uh, 784 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, I visited Eric ebers house, I mean again, 785 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:41,759 Speaker 1: and I didn't know if any of these guys were 786 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: any good, had no idea. I've never seen him never, 787 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: and so I go to Eric Hebrews house and you know, 788 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: his parents were like, look if if if anybody was 789 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: coached and we did still wanted to go there. It's old. Thanks. 790 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And so he was coming and saying 791 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: with kind of with Roscoe Harris, he was coming, but Kittles, 792 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm not coming. I mean, I'm not coming. I refuse, 793 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm not coming to Villanova. So he was really So 794 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: the first thing I do first, the first day I'm 795 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: on the job, I flied in New Orleans, and I 796 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: go to his house and he gave him a great 797 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: program that you probably know, saying Augustine Prepp in New 798 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: Orleans and which Avery Johnson played there. A lot of 799 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: great players played there. And uh, we go to his 800 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: house and his mother and father really wanted him to 801 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: go to Villanova. They were very religious people. Um, they 802 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 1: wanted him to come, and they were trying to help 803 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: me coach, you know, and they and I didn't know 804 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 1: them from a hole in the wall, but they wanted 805 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 1: him to come. And the coach, high school coach, Bernard Griffith, 806 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,279 Speaker 1: who was a great guy and a great coach, he 807 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,360 Speaker 1: wanted him to come. But the kid I walk in 808 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: the house, he won't look at me. We'll look give me. 809 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: He's I'm on sitting on a couch here against the wall, 810 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: and he's sitting like on a love seat right to 811 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: my left. He's looking straight ahead. He won't look at me, 812 00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: So naturally I start my spiel. I said, Carrie, listen, 813 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: on those days you're signed a letter of intent, if 814 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: you didn't go to the school, you're losing years eligibility. 815 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: Not sit out of year, you lose a year. So 816 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Carrie, listen, what sense does it make you 817 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 1: decided to come to the school. So it's not like 818 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: you decided to go to a place. It's like jail. 819 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: You liked it, obviously, why lose a year's eligibility and 820 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: not come when you can come and then leave if 821 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 1: you don't like it. At least that way you'll get 822 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: your four years. Because you know that people weren't thinking 823 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: about one of dunes. You'll get your four years. So 824 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 1: come wouldn't look at me. So anyway, I'm I'm talking, 825 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 1: and you know I'm trying to joke, and his parents 826 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: are laughing. Whatever. He starts to loose it up towards 827 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: the end. So I really feel like this thing is 828 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: has got a lot better, because all right, I think 829 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: it's a thing's gonna be good. So anyway, I'm there 830 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: like three hours. Leave the house. All the reporters are 831 00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: outside because the big story in New Orleans carry kid 832 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: was not going to Villanova. So the reporters are outside. Coach, 833 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, what do you think? I said, Oh, I 834 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,840 Speaker 1: think I think you'll be fine. I think he'll be coming. 835 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: So I leave. I go back to my hotel room 836 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: and I put on the eleven o'clock news and it 837 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: shows me making my comments. And right after I left, 838 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: Kittles came out and they said, what do you think 839 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm not going to Villanova? And I said, oh my god, 840 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: I gotta come back again. Talk to see him on 841 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: the news. Say I'm not going there, No way. So 842 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: now I'm like, okay, I had some things I had 843 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: to do. I come back down two days later, and 844 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: now he's got a little more comfort with me. He's 845 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: seeing me before you didn't know who I was. And 846 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: uh he decides to give it a go. It made 847 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 1: sense really for him. He gave it a go. And 848 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: then uh um, he he had his moments es freshman. 849 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: He was homesick. I mean, you know, did you bring 850 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 1: a kid from New Orleans to Philadelphia? You know, It's 851 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of a culture shock in a lot 852 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,920 Speaker 1: of ways. You come from the South to the south 853 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: to the northeast, big city, even though we're in the suburb. 854 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: So he had his moments where he didn't know if 855 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: he was gonna stick it out, but he did. And 856 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,280 Speaker 1: you know the funny thing Doug is is that he 857 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: he he's as proud of Villanova. He was on the 858 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: board of trustees for a while. He's a kid that 859 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: didn't want to come. They wanted to leave. And that's 860 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,439 Speaker 1: why all this transfer stuff drives me Nuthing's going on now, 861 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Kids picking up? If if 862 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 1: carry kittles didn't have to sit out, he would have 863 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: never come to Illanova. And if he didn't have to 864 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: sit out his freshure be after his freshure bear, he'd 865 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: have left and gone somewhere else, no question. Instead, he 866 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,880 Speaker 1: sticks it out, ends up getting a master's degree from 867 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 1: Villanova business, ends up loving the place like there's no tomorrow. 868 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: This would not have happened today, in my opinion, he'd 869 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: have been gone. Okay, So how how have we gotten 870 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: to this place? You and I are so aligned on it, 871 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: And what happens is somehow the business that we're now 872 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: in in the media has accepted it as as fact 873 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,760 Speaker 1: as law, that you and I are crazy, that holding 874 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: these kids to any sort of accountability of staying at 875 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: a school is way above the standard of of what 876 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: should be fair. Whereas we both know. It's like I 877 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,799 Speaker 1: tell people the story all the time. My third week 878 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,400 Speaker 1: of practicing it Notre Dame, I'm getting my ass kicked. 879 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: And I only went to Notre Dame because among the 880 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 1: other things I could start as a freshman. Right there's 881 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: ad Moore White was there. He had started some in 882 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: pinch duty um, but they didn't think he was good enough. 883 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 1: So like, you'll come here, you'll start to your team 884 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,719 Speaker 1: right away. And we're in practice, and you know, I'm 885 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,239 Speaker 1: getting my ass kicked. I'm a freshman, I had never been. 886 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: I I'm just running into screens. Ad Moore's killing me. 887 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 1: Every day. I went in and saw our mutual friend 888 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: Philly guy Frand McCaffrey, and I just said, send me home. 889 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm not good enough, send me home. And I'm crying. 890 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: I'm homesick. You know. The weather's awful in South bendch 891 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: is gray every day. I just I just wanted to 892 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,880 Speaker 1: leave and obviously I left and and I was actually 893 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: I was considering leaving when I had to leave. But 894 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: it's the same idea that I would have stuck it out, 895 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: because you're never gonna know until you get to that 896 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: second year, until you kind of go all in, right, 897 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 1: you mentally and emotionally unpacked. And you know, fast forward 898 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: to my three years at Oaklahoma State. There was a time, uh, 899 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: midway through my junior year where I was in coaches 900 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,360 Speaker 1: dog house that I wanted to leave. Again. We're actually 901 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 1: playing u n LB in Vegas, the Desert Classic. We 902 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: had just lost to Cradon, and I was miserable and 903 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,839 Speaker 1: I wanted to go, like I had in my mind, 904 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go play for Rick but Jarrison Utah, somehow 905 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,919 Speaker 1: that's gonna make things right, you know. Or my brother 906 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 1: was at San Diego State, they were just starting out. 907 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: May I just go there and just be the guy. 908 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 1: But again, fast forward, you know, everything in my life 909 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 1: has really started because of my time calm the state. Right, 910 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm on the board. I'm I'm on the Board of Regents. 911 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: Uh okay, what is it called the Board of Governors? Right? 912 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'm there's all these different things I'm able 913 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,279 Speaker 1: to do. And if you just leave a school, I 914 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,360 Speaker 1: don't think people understand exactly what you're leaving behind. You 915 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,880 Speaker 1: leave behind that it's not really your album model anymore. 916 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I get coming back for alumni games. You're 917 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 1: not in that very I've I've heard of like two 918 00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: different times other than that, you're not like getting a 919 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 1: job from that coach. He's not gonna help you in 920 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: the coaching But why would he help you? You're leaving him? Right, 921 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 1: But how do we this point lap to where guys 922 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 1: just without even worrying about it, they just leave and 923 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,560 Speaker 1: everybody champions like an open free market. You know, the 924 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: it's amazing and you you put it perfectly because and 925 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: you feel it's probably more than me because you're you know, 926 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,879 Speaker 1: you're drenched in the media twelve months a year. All 927 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 1: I could say is I tweeted a about it a 928 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: couple of times, and I don't have all that many 929 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 1: followers or anything. The vitriol that comes back when you 930 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:13,000 Speaker 1: say that this is bad is unbelievable. It's unbelievable, and 931 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure you have felt it. So, I mean, people 932 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: just feel like the perception is these kids are getting screwed. 933 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,759 Speaker 1: These coaches can do whatever they want. They're making all 934 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: this money off these kids. This isn't right. That's it. 935 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: There's your there's the feeling. Forget about the fact that 936 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,919 Speaker 1: and I used to you know, how many kids I had, Dug, 937 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: It's exact, you said, it perfect. How many kids I 938 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 1: had that after their freshman year wanted to leave. And 939 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: I said, listen, come back for your sophomore year. Try it. 940 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: You'll see what happens, because all of a sudden, you're 941 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,040 Speaker 1: not homesick because you're going back to something you know, 942 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,160 Speaker 1: so the home sick is isn't there anymore. And so 943 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: coming back for your sophomore years absolutely the key. And 944 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: how many kids nowadays are leaving after their freshman year 945 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,879 Speaker 1: and don't even give it a chance, and they're going 946 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,759 Speaker 1: to four four schools in four years. You like you said, 947 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: you don't think it's a big deal now, but guess what, 948 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,839 Speaker 1: you're not gonna play an alumni game and you're not 949 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: gonna have the benefits of your alma mater because you 950 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,279 Speaker 1: went the four schools in four years. It's it's ridiculous. 951 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 1: And we don't teach these kids how to stick things out. 952 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: Guess one. Yeah, a lot of times in your life, 953 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,399 Speaker 1: you gotta persevere, as we all know as adults. But 954 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: what kind of a lesson are we teaching? No, no, no, 955 00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: we're taking advantage of the kids, and we want to 956 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,719 Speaker 1: make money off the kids. And coaches can go over 957 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,080 Speaker 1: they're not. And you know what I tell people about 958 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: the coaches. For every coach that leaves to go to 959 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: a better job, fifteen got fired. Okay, So I mean, yeah, 960 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,560 Speaker 1: that may be true, that may be true, But guess 961 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: what we always talked about the guy who moved to 962 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,279 Speaker 1: the better job. How about all these guys that are 963 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: getting bounced every year. I also think it's like we're 964 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: comparing the professor and the student. I'm sorry, I'm sorry 965 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: that the coach has earned a little bit different, right, 966 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,000 Speaker 1: there is a buy out in their contract. And I 967 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,879 Speaker 1: also think they think of coaches changing jobs very willy nilly, 968 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,840 Speaker 1: Whereas it's a massive, massive undertaking and everything you do 969 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,960 Speaker 1: when you leave at school affects everybody. Whereas if a 970 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,799 Speaker 1: player leaves the school, it's really he's just worrying about him, 971 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 1: you know. So we're comparing apples and apples and oranges. Um, 972 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,399 Speaker 1: I mean I got a buddy, Brian Mottnotty who he's 973 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,360 Speaker 1: a high school coach. At O wasa high school but 974 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,160 Speaker 1: his his son is arguably the best freshman the country 975 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: and in Oklahoma States. His school and we he he 976 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: went to Kalsey Fulton for like a minute, then he 977 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: went to Forts in college. But after his first year 978 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma State, like he only played in thirteen games. 979 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: You know, he had game winning free throws to beat Oklahoma, 980 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,400 Speaker 1: but he played in thirteen games, got carried off the 981 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 1: floor as a hero. But today everybody would say, hey, 982 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: you gotta leave. You know, he only played half the games. 983 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: Right by our senior year, he was a starter. He 984 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,840 Speaker 1: play eight eight years overseas. He's made a complete career 985 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,160 Speaker 1: in life for himself. But but the bigger thing is 986 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: the part that nobody tells you is like, hey, when 987 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,440 Speaker 1: when this stuff all ends, it's like you're connected with 988 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,879 Speaker 1: that whole Villanova family. You're actually even though you didn't 989 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,880 Speaker 1: play there. Through the perfect example, when they won the 990 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,600 Speaker 1: first championship, you were as much a part of it 991 00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,880 Speaker 1: as anybody on that staff, right as was anybody played 992 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,960 Speaker 1: at Villanova. They all feel a part of it. It's 993 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,400 Speaker 1: special if you lost your job at CBS Sports and 994 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,160 Speaker 1: he said, you know what I want to I want 995 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 1: to coach one more time, he'd call one of your 996 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,839 Speaker 1: nova guys and they'd be like, come be the old 997 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 1: head on staff. Travel around with us for a couple 998 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: of years. You'll have a great time. And the same 999 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,319 Speaker 1: thing happens when you're a player. Right when you get 1000 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: done playing, you don't really know what you want to do. 1001 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to coach, I don't know, don't want 1002 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:50,920 Speaker 1: to I don't want to do. Can I be a 1003 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: broadcast or do I go into marketing? Do I stay 1004 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,879 Speaker 1: at the school and the first place you usually calls 1005 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,279 Speaker 1: your coach, and your coaches you know that if you 1006 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,080 Speaker 1: want to come beyond staff, I'll find something for you. 1007 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 1: I want to do something else, I'll find Like there's 1008 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: all these North Carolina like the North Carolina Mafia. They 1009 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,480 Speaker 1: take care of their the Duke Mafia, they take care 1010 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,040 Speaker 1: of their guys, and I just for some reason, we 1011 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: don't have the ability to tell the entirety of the story, 1012 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,560 Speaker 1: which is, yeah, for every one or two kids that 1013 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,320 Speaker 1: a school makes a bunch of money off, the truth 1014 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 1: is you're spending a bunch of money on other kids 1015 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: that you're not making money on, right, and oh we 1016 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,200 Speaker 1: have by the way, you're just promoting the school. It's 1017 00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: not like it's going in everybody else's pocket. And that kid, 1018 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,759 Speaker 1: he'll be fine. It's all the other kids that think 1019 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,200 Speaker 1: they're that kid that are gonna leave and and ruin 1020 00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: their future or maybe not ruin their future, but hurt 1021 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: their own future because of the visions of of of 1022 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:52,280 Speaker 1: grandeur elsewhere. All right, so so so you beat so okay, 1023 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:57,319 Speaker 1: so this is Kittles is uh was his his junior year, Right, 1024 00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: you win the Big title and wasn't like a squeaker. No, 1025 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,279 Speaker 1: you beat Yukon by like six Yeah, okay, you smoke 1026 00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 1: them in the garden um what happened that week between 1027 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: there and an old Domini? So you know, we uh 1028 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,040 Speaker 1: we went back to the hotel after the game. We 1029 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: were staying at the plaza to to watch the selection 1030 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: show because in those days, the Big East Championship game 1031 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,880 Speaker 1: was right leading up to the selection shows. Now they 1032 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,000 Speaker 1: do it with the Big Ten, but those days it 1033 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: was the Big East Championship. So we uh, we won 1034 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: the championship and we went back to hotel to watch 1035 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: the show was Sunday afternoon, and uh, you know, I 1036 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,360 Speaker 1: was we were we were a little surprised that we 1037 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 1: we had beaten Connecticut two out of three that year. Um, 1038 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,680 Speaker 1: we were a little surprised. And we had also beaten 1039 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,360 Speaker 1: them that year. They were number one in the country 1040 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 1: and we went up there and beat them by by 1041 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,520 Speaker 1: twenty that game too, and they were they were a 1042 00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: two seed and we were a three seed. Um, so 1043 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: we we were a little surprised by that. But okay, 1044 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, and um so we we we see that 1045 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 1: we were playing Old Dominion, uh there fourteen and we're 1046 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,440 Speaker 1: going to albany Um so that week, we remember the 1047 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 1: athletic director was Gene d Filippo and he said, hey, 1048 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: you guys, you know I'm telling you because he coach, 1049 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,959 Speaker 1: he coached football, and he said, you know, I'm gonna 1050 00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: get you guys a hotel room near the school and 1051 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,640 Speaker 1: you guys can get a suite there and just you know, 1052 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,440 Speaker 1: so you don't have to answer the phones or whatever. 1053 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,600 Speaker 1: You get ready. Okay, great, that's you know, that's what 1054 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,760 Speaker 1: we did. So we went stayed in this hotel and 1055 00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,560 Speaker 1: got ready for Old Dominion and we we we go 1056 00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: up obviously, and and we had won I believe now 1057 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 1: after that championship game against you, and we won like 1058 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,000 Speaker 1: fourteen in a row in that Big East in those 1059 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:53,840 Speaker 1: days twelve thirteen, fourteen, we had a big winning street 1060 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: big and uh actually started when we beat Florida at 1061 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,840 Speaker 1: Florida at the Buzzer in January in the game, and 1062 00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,920 Speaker 1: then we went on this long streak. So we were 1063 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,000 Speaker 1: the hottest team in the country. Everybody was picking us 1064 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,920 Speaker 1: to go to the final for everybody, everybody, So even 1065 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,800 Speaker 1: though we were three seed, we were like to pick 1066 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: and uh, we go to all day and play so 1067 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 1: bad and you know it, you know, it was a 1068 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 1: little bit of a you know, we went our first 1069 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:28,000 Speaker 1: Big East championship four days before, five days before, and 1070 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:34,240 Speaker 1: then just we're flat, flat kittles. And I've I've since 1071 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,040 Speaker 1: why I didn't watch the game for like fifteen years 1072 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,000 Speaker 1: and I've watched it a couple of times in the 1073 00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:44,240 Speaker 1: last five years. And uh, Kerry was so in the 1074 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,000 Speaker 1: first half, he had like two points and four turnovers. 1075 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:53,960 Speaker 1: We were just so bad, so flat, just flat as 1076 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,360 Speaker 1: you think. Do you think they were nervous? I don't 1077 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,400 Speaker 1: think they were nervous. No, I mean, I think we 1078 01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,720 Speaker 1: got nervous as the game went on, like all these 1079 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,080 Speaker 1: people are talking about you know, all these people that 1080 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 1: talk about you know, um, the pressure is on the 1081 01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,080 Speaker 1: lower higher seed. It's no, it's true, you know what 1082 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,640 Speaker 1: I mean. As the game went on, Oh yeah, you 1083 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,800 Speaker 1: start to feel it. No question, you had this unbelievable 1084 01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: season and now you're in a doorfight. But the truth 1085 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,919 Speaker 1: is we were up the whole game. We played bad, 1086 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,880 Speaker 1: but in the second half we were up the whole 1087 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 1: second half like five seven, three seven. You know, it 1088 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 1: was a typical n C A game in a lot 1089 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,720 Speaker 1: of ways. You see these games all the time where 1090 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 1: a lower seed is hanging in there with a higher seed. 1091 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,320 Speaker 1: You're not gonna just come in and beat him by third, 1092 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:43,680 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it was one of 1093 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,360 Speaker 1: those games. So we still look like we're gonna win, 1094 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:53,240 Speaker 1: but it was close. So now eight seconds to go 1095 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 1: in the game, we're up three and they had a 1096 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: guy named Pete Sessims. I don't know if you remember him. 1097 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,360 Speaker 1: It was a really good layer. And he takes a 1098 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: fly or three from the corner when we're up three, 1099 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,680 Speaker 1: and Jason laws and follows him. He makes all three 1100 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,240 Speaker 1: we're up, and this the shot that he took had 1101 01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,240 Speaker 1: no chance of going in. This game's over. We get 1102 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,200 Speaker 1: that one rebound games over no old to me, and 1103 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 1: you know how this goes, Doug. You know it's easy 1104 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:26,600 Speaker 1: for me to say now, but that team could have 1105 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,600 Speaker 1: wanted if we got by that game. And you see 1106 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,160 Speaker 1: it happen all the time where you know, tis edny 1107 01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 1: what he did, and you know what I mean. You 1108 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,840 Speaker 1: gotta get by that one game sometimes somehow, and then 1109 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,600 Speaker 1: you can go you can win the whole thing after that. 1110 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 1: And so we're up three with eight seconds ago. We followed, 1111 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,400 Speaker 1: he makes all three. We come down. We call it 1112 01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,240 Speaker 1: playing Jason Laws. Gotta lay up, lay up. We guy 1113 01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: Garden with six seven he was six of them. Gotta 1114 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,040 Speaker 1: lay up. Missed it at the buzzer. So we go 1115 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:59,360 Speaker 1: over time, back and forth, tie, tie, tie. We got 1116 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:07,000 Speaker 1: the ball, last shot, got another layup miss second over time. 1117 01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,400 Speaker 1: John Haynes got a ten foot jumper. We got the 1118 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,720 Speaker 1: last shot again, got a ten foot jumper, hits the 1119 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:22,000 Speaker 1: side of the backboard. Third overtime, tight, tight turnover score 1120 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:29,520 Speaker 1: and one go down five losing triple over time fly 1121 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:37,160 Speaker 1: Hummer bust something fly never felt so sick in my life, 1122 01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 1: never sick, you know what I mean? You know, because 1123 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: you know you were a basketball family. Sick sick like 1124 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 1: like like sick like you don't want to you hate 1125 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,080 Speaker 1: to say, I mean, you hate to say. No, it's 1126 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,240 Speaker 1: not the death, of course, obviously that is much more 1127 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,000 Speaker 1: serious than that. But man, is it is? It is 1128 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,360 Speaker 1: it the seat the sea and is over and it 1129 01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,680 Speaker 1: was just it's like you said, like just five days 1130 01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,840 Speaker 1: before it won the Big East and you're thinking, we 1131 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,040 Speaker 1: can win this whole damn thing. Like again, I I 1132 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,680 Speaker 1: understanding the grand scheme of things, but when you put 1133 01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,280 Speaker 1: your whole life into something and you know it just 1134 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,480 Speaker 1: it's over so fast, so fast. And yeah, I I 1135 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,600 Speaker 1: totally understand. You haven't hadn't watched the game until a 1136 01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,520 Speaker 1: couple of years ago. I I you know, these games 1137 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,240 Speaker 1: done a couple of years ago. I I totally totally 1138 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,280 Speaker 1: get it, totally get it. And then it kind of 1139 01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: consumes you and you don't get to play for like 1140 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:37,320 Speaker 1: seven months, and you know what the you're right, it 1141 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,760 Speaker 1: is it is like a death. That is it is 1142 01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,840 Speaker 1: the death of that team. Yes, and and and that 1143 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,800 Speaker 1: team that did so much and like you said, the 1144 01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:54,760 Speaker 1: quickness of the finality is mind boggling. How can this 1145 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,800 Speaker 1: thing be over? It's it's it was a locker We 1146 01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,160 Speaker 1: sat in that locker room for a half hour. I'll 1147 01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:05,360 Speaker 1: say an a word, I have a I gotta it's 1148 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:07,320 Speaker 1: kind of a HYPOTHESI so let's let's talk this out 1149 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,960 Speaker 1: for a second, because, uh, there there are people that 1150 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,560 Speaker 1: think we like guys. I guess we take it too seriously, right, Like, 1151 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,000 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, Mark You. I remember one 1152 01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:20,040 Speaker 1: of his first grade teams, they lost the Texas Tech 1153 01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,680 Speaker 1: in the second round and they had the game one 1154 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: and I just remember it was with they lost a 1155 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,440 Speaker 1: Bob Knight in Tech, and I remember calling Mark You 1156 01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,880 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna give it a day. I'm gonna give 1157 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:33,960 Speaker 1: it a day. Then I'm gonna call him. And I 1158 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,320 Speaker 1: called him and I can barely hear him, and he's 1159 01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 1: out fly fishing, right, and like part of me is like, man, 1160 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,960 Speaker 1: that's a guy who gets it, man like I likes it. 1161 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:45,960 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm gon out there fly fishing. I'm gonna 1162 01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,320 Speaker 1: find my center, you know, like I'm gonna He's got 1163 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,120 Speaker 1: little kids at the time. But I I would say 1164 01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,840 Speaker 1: if I was in that position, like I'm still mad 1165 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,240 Speaker 1: we lost Oklahoma my last regular season game, Like I 1166 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,640 Speaker 1: we're up nine, coach subbing me out. I'm still fucking 1167 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: pissed about that ship right to day. I know exactly 1168 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,720 Speaker 1: what happened, play play play from play, So I know 1169 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ways to do it. But I 1170 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,360 Speaker 1: think most of us, most of us are more like 1171 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,000 Speaker 1: you and me than we are like Mark. But is 1172 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,720 Speaker 1: it is it healthy? I don't know to to have it, 1173 01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,400 Speaker 1: to allow it to because I think it is, because 1174 01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,880 Speaker 1: I think you allow yourself to believe and to dream, 1175 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: and and part of the reason that it comes to 1176 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,760 Speaker 1: an end so quickly is one our own egos. We 1177 01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,000 Speaker 1: think we can win every game. But to how you 1178 01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,000 Speaker 1: gonna sell a team like like I've never sat in 1179 01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,840 Speaker 1: a scattering report and the coaches like we got no 1180 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,520 Speaker 1: shot right, Everybody's like, look, if you do this, you 1181 01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,040 Speaker 1: do X, Y Z, rest and take care of itself, 1182 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:43,880 Speaker 1: you win the game. And so you start you like 1183 01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,560 Speaker 1: you believe like I'm in, and then you have an 1184 01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,560 Speaker 1: ego of yourself You're like I'm in. So, having now 1185 01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,320 Speaker 1: kind of been removed for it from it, what's the 1186 01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,560 Speaker 1: healthy way to approach it, to go mentally emotional in 1187 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,000 Speaker 1: and die with these wins and losses, or to have 1188 01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:04,720 Speaker 1: the more balanced approach. You know, Unfortunately you're talking to 1189 01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,120 Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't doesn't only knows one way. And 1190 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:11,640 Speaker 1: do I wish? Do I wish I had a more 1191 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,440 Speaker 1: balanced way of doing it? Yeah? I probably would be 1192 01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:16,760 Speaker 1: would have been not I've been out for so long, 1193 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,080 Speaker 1: so you know what I mean, Like my wife says, 1194 01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:21,320 Speaker 1: you're you're so much healthier now, You're so much this 1195 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: that as Yeah, but you know what, that locker room 1196 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 1: after a win. You can't get that anywhere nowhere. No, No, 1197 01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:29,960 Speaker 1: that's what they like. What do you miss? That's what 1198 01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,040 Speaker 1: I miss? I miss I missed practice, I missed I 1199 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,200 Speaker 1: miss I missed my insistence, I missed the camaraderie. But 1200 01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, you really miss that feeling after a win 1201 01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,520 Speaker 1: in that locker room. You're not getting that anywhere no 1202 01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,360 Speaker 1: matter what, and that's what you really miss. So you 1203 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,640 Speaker 1: know it's it's yeah, do I wish I had? You know, 1204 01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,720 Speaker 1: I was always a pretty balanced guy in terms of 1205 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,760 Speaker 1: family and and you know one thing does I worked 1206 01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,560 Speaker 1: very hard at what I did. I never came home 1207 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,120 Speaker 1: and watched the tape. Ever, when I came home home, 1208 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,000 Speaker 1: I came home. So I mean, I I think I 1209 01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,240 Speaker 1: had a pretty good balance with trying to you know, 1210 01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,680 Speaker 1: see my kids play their games and and do what 1211 01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,360 Speaker 1: I had to do at home, and obviously worked really 1212 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 1: hard there. So but when he came to winning and losing, yeah, 1213 01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean it was all in my heart. It's nothing 1214 01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,560 Speaker 1: I could do. Losing made me sick, and you know, 1215 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,520 Speaker 1: just the way it always was. Um So you get 1216 01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,880 Speaker 1: home from losing that game. But now Kiddles returned for 1217 01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,400 Speaker 1: his senior year, right again, you talk about things that 1218 01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,000 Speaker 1: don't happen anymore. He averaged over twenty game you win 1219 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,760 Speaker 1: the Big East title. What was that offseason like in 1220 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,880 Speaker 1: terms of Carrie decided to return. You know, it was 1221 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,440 Speaker 1: we only had a couple of weeks of worrying about it, 1222 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, because he basically said, yeah, I want to 1223 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,320 Speaker 1: come back. He really loved college, He loved Villanova, he 1224 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,320 Speaker 1: loved you know, I mean, he was the first team 1225 01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:58,080 Speaker 1: All American and he was feeling was you know, it'll 1226 01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,080 Speaker 1: be there next year for me too. So obviously we 1227 01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:01,680 Speaker 1: were having so we didn't have one of those off 1228 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 1: seasons where You're like, really, what the heck is going 1229 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,360 Speaker 1: on here? For months? You know what I mean? No, 1230 01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,200 Speaker 1: it didn't have that, so it was pretty set. And 1231 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:13,640 Speaker 1: now we've got just about the whole team back. So 1232 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,880 Speaker 1: you know, we were preseason like four or five, you 1233 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,400 Speaker 1: know what I mean. But you know, so we got 1234 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,840 Speaker 1: the whole team back except for Jonathan Haynes who graduated. 1235 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,320 Speaker 1: You know, we had it was it was lost in Cornegade, 1236 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,880 Speaker 1: Alvin Williams, Ebers and Kittles. That's pretty good. Starting five, 1237 01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,760 Speaker 1: John cellstand up the bench. Two is very good. John 1238 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,320 Speaker 1: sellstand was off the bench. Howard Brown was a freshman. 1239 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,360 Speaker 1: Ron Wilson was still on that team. So I mean, yeah, 1240 01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,479 Speaker 1: that team, you know, we we were really good and 1241 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 1: we you know, we had we had a very good 1242 01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,160 Speaker 1: We went to Maui and we beat North Carolina in 1243 01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,680 Speaker 1: the championship game, and when we got back, we were 1244 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,680 Speaker 1: number two in the nation. Um, so that's we got 1245 01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,120 Speaker 1: that high. And you know, we had a good regular season. 1246 01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,960 Speaker 1: Um and then and then at the end of the 1247 01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:05,519 Speaker 1: year and he you know, you hate to lament certain 1248 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,880 Speaker 1: things and people say, oh, it's you know, you're your whatever, 1249 01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,320 Speaker 1: crying all for you gotta have some luck in this too, 1250 01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,680 Speaker 1: So you know, the end of the year, we're on 1251 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,200 Speaker 1: owning those roles again. We went like tenan a row 1252 01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,720 Speaker 1: in the Big East, and all of a sudden I 1253 01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,720 Speaker 1: get a phone call from our athletic director. I was 1254 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,000 Speaker 1: on a recruiting trip and he says, hey, we got 1255 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,120 Speaker 1: a problem. I said, what's what's the problem? He says, 1256 01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, Kerry was using uh, the the the S 1257 01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:38,920 Speaker 1: I D s phone card and making phone calls. I said, what. 1258 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,880 Speaker 1: So apparently that the the S I D Had given 1259 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:49,720 Speaker 1: him his credit card phone credit card number to call 1260 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,320 Speaker 1: a reporter down in New Orleans at one time, and 1261 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,240 Speaker 1: he kept it. Naturally, he as a kid, and he's 1262 01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,160 Speaker 1: making phone calls all over the place, you know, home 1263 01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:04,160 Speaker 1: whatever he ran up about, I don't know, five dollars 1264 01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,600 Speaker 1: worth of bill, seven hundred dollars. So now I go 1265 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,200 Speaker 1: in the athletic office. I said, Geane, all right, he 1266 01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,640 Speaker 1: pays it back and that's the end of it. He's 1267 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,960 Speaker 1: got to pay it back or he can't play. So 1268 01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,080 Speaker 1: he said, well, you know, we we really do have 1269 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:23,960 Speaker 1: to report it. I said, Gene schools take care of 1270 01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,720 Speaker 1: this stuff. Into Yeah, if he doesn't pay it back. 1271 01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Your report it to violation. If he pays it back, 1272 01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,920 Speaker 1: how's it a violation. Let him pay it back, and 1273 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:36,320 Speaker 1: that's the end of it. No, he's gonna pay it back, 1274 01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,000 Speaker 1: but we gotta report it. Uh comes back the three 1275 01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,559 Speaker 1: games left in the season, n c A suspends him 1276 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:47,200 Speaker 1: for the last three games. Um, and again we're well, 1277 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,080 Speaker 1: ten games in a row, we're on a roll, everything's 1278 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,719 Speaker 1: going great. This happens now, this is big news obviously 1279 01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,599 Speaker 1: around the country. You got a first team All Americans 1280 01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,640 Speaker 1: suspended for the last three games of the season for this. 1281 01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:02,720 Speaker 1: And he is a very sensitive kid. He's embarrassed, you know, 1282 01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:06,920 Speaker 1: he's he's embarrassed by this. And uh, I'll tell you that. 1283 01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we play, we play Yukon in the spectrum, 1284 01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:13,000 Speaker 1: sold out spectrum. We were like number four in the country. 1285 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,080 Speaker 1: They were like number seven. He don't play. We lose, 1286 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,559 Speaker 1: We score fifty five points, we lose, like sixty two 1287 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:22,479 Speaker 1: fifty five or something like that. And uh, we were 1288 01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,840 Speaker 1: never the same, and he was never the same. So 1289 01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:29,479 Speaker 1: we go to the n c A tournament and you know, again, 1290 01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,560 Speaker 1: so there's one piece of bad luck right there. So 1291 01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,720 Speaker 1: with the phone card we carry then Uh. We go 1292 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,120 Speaker 1: to the n c A tournament and we're like, uh, 1293 01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,320 Speaker 1: I guess we're two seed. I forget what we were? Uh, 1294 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:45,720 Speaker 1: three seed? We went. We beat Portland's the first game 1295 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,759 Speaker 1: like forty yes, second game we played Louisville. Now Louisville 1296 01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,320 Speaker 1: that year, they ended up being like a eight ceed. 1297 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:56,479 Speaker 1: I forget what seed they were, but they were much 1298 01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:57,880 Speaker 1: lower and they were supposed to because I don't know 1299 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,920 Speaker 1: if you remember got named Samaki Walker. Well he he 1300 01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,240 Speaker 1: was suspended for twelve games that year for taking an 1301 01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,800 Speaker 1: illegal benefit, but he's coming back for the n c 1302 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,720 Speaker 1: A tournament. So they end up being like a six 1303 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,040 Speaker 1: or seven seed. They've probably been a two or three seed. 1304 01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,320 Speaker 1: That's who we get in the second round. Sabaki Walker's back. 1305 01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,000 Speaker 1: We don't play well out again. So now now the 1306 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,360 Speaker 1: the heat on me is mounting. Okay, you had these 1307 01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,679 Speaker 1: two teams that are like, you know, and you can't 1308 01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,720 Speaker 1: get out of the first weekend. So the heat is on. 1309 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,439 Speaker 1: There's the you know, we still got a good team 1310 01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:35,799 Speaker 1: coming back to the next year. We got Tim Thomas 1311 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:40,439 Speaker 1: coming in. We got but now it's two or die 1312 01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:44,000 Speaker 1: time here in terms of you know, yeah, could I 1313 01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,120 Speaker 1: have overcome it. Short if we went to the Elite 1314 01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,519 Speaker 1: eight to follow it that year, nobody would have ever 1315 01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:53,040 Speaker 1: thought about old dominion. But old dominion rests. And here's 1316 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,160 Speaker 1: what I told this to Rick new Heiser the other day. 1317 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,920 Speaker 1: It was in the studio with us, I said, coach, 1318 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,280 Speaker 1: and you could relate to this, Doug. But one thing 1319 01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,560 Speaker 1: you don't want to do. You don't want to be 1320 01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,000 Speaker 1: the captain of the ship for the worst loss in 1321 01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:09,320 Speaker 1: the history of the school. And if you ask any 1322 01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,479 Speaker 1: Villanova person who's over forty years old, what's the worst 1323 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,639 Speaker 1: loss in the history of the school, that's where they're 1324 01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,800 Speaker 1: going right away. And I was the captain of the 1325 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,960 Speaker 1: ship and we weren't and we did not overcome it. 1326 01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,400 Speaker 1: Jay had the chance to overcome it. I didn't have 1327 01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:29,360 Speaker 1: the chance to overcome it didn't. And that's where it went. 1328 01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,599 Speaker 1: But you you won the big Easter next year. Yeah, yeah, 1329 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,040 Speaker 1: But as that's what's crazy about it? What okay? So 1330 01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:44,360 Speaker 1: comparing contrast recruiting Tim Thomas to recruiting Rashid Wallace, well, 1331 01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:53,679 Speaker 1: you know it was it was Tim. I think part 1332 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:57,200 Speaker 1: of it was. I don't know that Dean Smith wanted 1333 01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,240 Speaker 1: to get involved with another one and done it. Tim 1334 01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,240 Speaker 1: was a great kid, by the way, great kid. I 1335 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:05,439 Speaker 1: mean I love him, I don't, So it was his 1336 01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,040 Speaker 1: recruitment was weird because it's kind of like we were 1337 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:10,920 Speaker 1: hanging in there. First of all, Paul Hughitt was good 1338 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,639 Speaker 1: friends with his high school coach. Um. But I mean, 1339 01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna I hired his high school coaches by ops guy, 1340 01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:24,000 Speaker 1: and that's probably a big reason why he came. But 1341 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,600 Speaker 1: were we in there? Yes, we were in there. And 1342 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,439 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because this happens all the time. 1343 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:36,479 Speaker 1: And and last that happened and oh other coaches buried me, 1344 01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:41,560 Speaker 1: buried me, And uh, this happens all the time. It 1345 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,400 Speaker 1: happens a lot, or used to happen a lot. Anyway, 1346 01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,680 Speaker 1: So what happens, It happens all the time. I mean, 1347 01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, I like people parents, Yeah, and so do 1348 01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:53,920 Speaker 1: I think we would have had a good shot at 1349 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,519 Speaker 1: him anyway? Yes? I do. Did that probably send it 1350 01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:00,360 Speaker 1: over the top? Probably? Did? You gotta tell the truth, um. 1351 01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,880 Speaker 1: And so that's how Tim ended up coming. And he 1352 01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,719 Speaker 1: was a great kid, and he averaged eighteen and nine 1353 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:12,560 Speaker 1: as a freshman. Um. What is that like though? To 1354 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,760 Speaker 1: have somebody who's on your staff who the perception is 1355 01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,320 Speaker 1: he's only there for one kid, Like, how did you 1356 01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:22,679 Speaker 1: manage that? You know, Jimmy Salmon is a very bright guy. 1357 01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,680 Speaker 1: He coached at Patterson Catholic for a long time. It's 1358 01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,519 Speaker 1: not like he was a guy who was not coaching, 1359 01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:30,680 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. This guy coached and won 1360 01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:33,280 Speaker 1: a lot of games at Patterson Catholic for many, many years, 1361 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,760 Speaker 1: so he was. He was a basketball guy, so he was. 1362 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,360 Speaker 1: He was great to have in our meetings and and 1363 01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,240 Speaker 1: doing whatever we did. You know, he he added to 1364 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,560 Speaker 1: what we did that I wasn't sure he wanted to 1365 01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,760 Speaker 1: be in college for the long haul. I think that's 1366 01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,640 Speaker 1: what he was trying to figure out when he was 1367 01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,000 Speaker 1: doing this. You know, it's you know, obviously a lot 1368 01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,400 Speaker 1: of hours that you don't expect when you're a high 1369 01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,080 Speaker 1: school coach. I was high school coach, and when I 1370 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:00,200 Speaker 1: went to a Paroli, I was like, WHOA. I couldn't leave. 1371 01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,120 Speaker 1: I mean I didn't. I couldn't believe you drove four 1372 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,599 Speaker 1: hours to watch a kid play and drive four hours back. 1373 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:08,880 Speaker 1: Whenever I drove four hours, you know what I mean. 1374 01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,760 Speaker 1: I stayed for the weekend before that. You know this 1375 01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,439 Speaker 1: was different. So he was very good and he added 1376 01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,800 Speaker 1: a lot to the staff, and it was it was fine. 1377 01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:19,560 Speaker 1: And I knew him for a long time. It's not 1378 01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,400 Speaker 1: like I just met him through. I knew Jimmy for years, 1379 01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:24,240 Speaker 1: so it's not like he was a guy just meant 1380 01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,560 Speaker 1: said I'm gonna hire you. I knew him for a 1381 01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:32,040 Speaker 1: long time. Um okay, so that but again, like that year, 1382 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,439 Speaker 1: you make it seem like the old dominion thing was 1383 01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,800 Speaker 1: hanging over your head. You won the Big East. Um, 1384 01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 1: then you you win your first round game of that 1385 01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:45,719 Speaker 1: tournament and you come up on cal Right, you lost 1386 01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:47,760 Speaker 1: in the issue. Did you lost in the biggiesst Finals 1387 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:49,760 Speaker 1: to Boston College? They win the whole thing. Yep, we 1388 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,640 Speaker 1: lost in the Big East Finals and they had they 1389 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,439 Speaker 1: had That was Scooney. That was Scoonies last year there, 1390 01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:59,400 Speaker 1: I think, right, yes, yes, they're they're they're they're good 1391 01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:00,720 Speaker 1: and people for you to have been the Big Us, 1392 01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,080 Speaker 1: they were good. Yeah. The Big Eases you know then 1393 01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:07,640 Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Yeah, um okay, you beat l I you 1394 01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:11,040 Speaker 1: your first game. What do you remember about the Cow game? 1395 01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:17,639 Speaker 1: I remember I remember Tony Gonzalez up faking Tim Thomas 1396 01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,360 Speaker 1: and Tim picked up his third foul in the first half. 1397 01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:25,000 Speaker 1: I had him in and I remember that, And I 1398 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,000 Speaker 1: remember they had a guy named Jonathan Duck and and 1399 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:31,559 Speaker 1: and what's your name the game of the Mets Sean Mark, 1400 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:36,760 Speaker 1: Randy Randy Duck, I actually played, Yeah, Randy Duck. And 1401 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:43,240 Speaker 1: they had Sean Marks uh and Tony was the mic player, yeah, 1402 01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:48,400 Speaker 1: and unbelievable town. And so we just we didn't we 1403 01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,639 Speaker 1: didn't play well. We did not play well. Again, didn't 1404 01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:56,760 Speaker 1: play well. Can I explain it? Hey? You know, I 1405 01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:01,080 Speaker 1: always you know, co king is a funny thing. That 1406 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:03,680 Speaker 1: was I a bad coach in the tournament? I don't know. 1407 01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,280 Speaker 1: Maybe I was, you know what I mean, I don't know. 1408 01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,560 Speaker 1: I didn't win. I don't think so I thought that 1409 01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,040 Speaker 1: we prepared, we coached. I think if you ask my guys, 1410 01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,040 Speaker 1: they'll tell you that they thought I was a good coach. 1411 01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:20,439 Speaker 1: Things happened and just you know, for whatever reason, now 1412 01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:25,800 Speaker 1: that particular team chemistry wasn't great. Not the kids not 1413 01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,120 Speaker 1: getting along, it was it was my fault in a 1414 01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:33,720 Speaker 1: lot of ways, because I felt lloyal. I'm a law 1415 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a loyal guy. So I got 1416 01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:41,280 Speaker 1: Jason Lawson, Chuck Gorny Gay Alvin Williams back for their 1417 01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:46,880 Speaker 1: senior years. And really, Tim Thomas should have been a 1418 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:52,280 Speaker 1: college foreman, perfect foreman in college. I played him at 1419 01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,400 Speaker 1: the three so that so that I could keep playing 1420 01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:59,479 Speaker 1: Corner game. And it wasn't a great. It wasn't a 1421 01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:02,680 Speaker 1: great to be honest with you. Tim should have been 1422 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:04,320 Speaker 1: a full time for man. When I look back on 1423 01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,280 Speaker 1: that team, you know, but I would have had to 1424 01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:09,840 Speaker 1: take Chuck Corner get out of the lineup. Who was 1425 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,080 Speaker 1: my guy who came to Villanova to you know what 1426 01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,280 Speaker 1: I mean? You feel you feel for these kids too, 1427 01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:17,320 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You just you know, if 1428 01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,840 Speaker 1: it was just a heck with Chuck, we're better with 1429 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,240 Speaker 1: Tim Thomas as a foreman, which we probably would have been, 1430 01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,600 Speaker 1: but we didn't do it. So that team won a 1431 01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,160 Speaker 1: lot of games, one a lot of when it's the 1432 01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:31,400 Speaker 1: biggest championship game. But I don't know if we ever 1433 01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,400 Speaker 1: developed the kind of chemistry that my other teams had 1434 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,639 Speaker 1: on the floor. These kids all got along, they loved 1435 01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:42,200 Speaker 1: Tim Thomas, had nothing to do like people always think chemistry, 1436 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,479 Speaker 1: Oh they don't like each other. Oh no, no, it's 1437 01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,080 Speaker 1: got nothing to do with it most of the times. 1438 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,960 Speaker 1: Playing it sometimes it's hard to play with it's fit. 1439 01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:53,720 Speaker 1: But it's like playing with other guys is a completely 1440 01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,960 Speaker 1: different thing. Yeah right, Yeah, that's that's really kind of 1441 01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,840 Speaker 1: what it comes down to. Question. You also suffered from 1442 01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:06,000 Speaker 1: the um the when when the one and Done exits? 1443 01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,639 Speaker 1: So so Tim, again, back then there weren't many one 1444 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,920 Speaker 1: and does What was it like when that season ended? Yeah, 1445 01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:15,080 Speaker 1: that one was. That one was different. That one. We 1446 01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:19,599 Speaker 1: were we were like, you know, And I told him, See, 1447 01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:23,040 Speaker 1: Tim k Tim was the youngest of five kids. His 1448 01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,639 Speaker 1: mom was older. He wasn't an eighteen year old kid 1449 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,559 Speaker 1: whose mother was, you know, forty five. He was an 1450 01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:31,800 Speaker 1: eighteen year old kid. His mother was almost seventy and 1451 01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,960 Speaker 1: was cleaning houses and things like that. So he came 1452 01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,360 Speaker 1: from a totally different situation. And so I told him. 1453 01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,680 Speaker 1: I brought him in the auficer said, Tim, here's I mean, 1454 01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:45,320 Speaker 1: I know your situation and if if you feel like 1455 01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:49,040 Speaker 1: you gotta leave, understand, I said, but I got I 1456 01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,479 Speaker 1: think I owe it to you to tell you that 1457 01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:55,200 Speaker 1: I think you would benefit by staying a year and 1458 01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,240 Speaker 1: having the heat on you. See, because Alvin Williams and 1459 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:01,360 Speaker 1: Jason Laws, and they were the leaders of the team. 1460 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,960 Speaker 1: They took all the heat. So you know, after a 1461 01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:07,800 Speaker 1: game if something didn't go well, people want to them. 1462 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,720 Speaker 1: I said, it would help you from maturity standpoint, to 1463 01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,760 Speaker 1: be the guy in the heat, be the leader, have 1464 01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,040 Speaker 1: the heat for one year. I think that will help you. 1465 01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:23,040 Speaker 1: But do I understand if you leave yet? Of course 1466 01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:26,160 Speaker 1: I do. And that's you know, he didn't. He didn't 1467 01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,719 Speaker 1: really put us through a long ordeal. In two weeks 1468 01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,360 Speaker 1: or a week, it was a done deal. But that 1469 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,320 Speaker 1: that's what I taught. And I said, hey, listen, if 1470 01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,200 Speaker 1: you stay, I believe that this is how you will benefit. 1471 01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:44,120 Speaker 1: But if you don't, I understand. So um so now 1472 01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:48,080 Speaker 1: you have you know, he loses you're those seniors, but 1473 01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:51,080 Speaker 1: now you lose Tim Thomas as well, right, your most 1474 01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:55,880 Speaker 1: talented young player. And Villanova isn't really built to lose 1475 01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:59,040 Speaker 1: guys after one year, right, Like that's that's no one 1476 01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,439 Speaker 1: was really built that way at that time. But Villanova 1477 01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:07,599 Speaker 1: specifically isn't built for that. Is How can for someone 1478 01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,000 Speaker 1: who doesn't understand, can you explain like why that affects 1479 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:15,439 Speaker 1: of Villanova more than an affected You know, Duke has 1480 01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:17,640 Speaker 1: Duke lost guys wanted done. Even going back then, there 1481 01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:19,920 Speaker 1: was there was always a couple. I think Corey mcgetty 1482 01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:22,519 Speaker 1: was only one year or whatever. Why does it affect 1483 01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:27,040 Speaker 1: of Villanova more? Because you're not really getting McDonald's all. Yeah, 1484 01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:29,639 Speaker 1: you get him McDonald's all American. Of course you can, 1485 01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,479 Speaker 1: but you know you're not getting them on a regular basis, 1486 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,920 Speaker 1: So you gotta develop guys and so, and that was 1487 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:40,639 Speaker 1: the other thing. Losing him now we were really gonna 1488 01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,599 Speaker 1: struggle because and not only that, which is probably dumb 1489 01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:46,479 Speaker 1: on my part. I had a schedule where we played 1490 01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Duke home and home that year. We played Kentucky home 1491 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:54,000 Speaker 1: and home that year. We really had a brutal schedule. 1492 01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:58,240 Speaker 1: Um that year. Um, and it was one of those 1493 01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:03,000 Speaker 1: how bother this we go, We go twelve and seventeen 1494 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:07,439 Speaker 1: I believe, and we were eight and ten in the 1495 01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:11,640 Speaker 1: Big East. I mean, the out of conference schedule was ridiculous. So, 1496 01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean we weren't that bad, you know what I mean. 1497 01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:16,400 Speaker 1: It's not like you say, twelve and seventeen. No, you 1498 01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:18,400 Speaker 1: must have gone four and fourteen the Big East. No, 1499 01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:23,040 Speaker 1: not eight ten in the Big East. Um, but yeah, 1500 01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:25,640 Speaker 1: just losing a guy. You can't replace a guy like 1501 01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:29,040 Speaker 1: that at Villanova and then and and lose a couple 1502 01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:31,519 Speaker 1: of seniors with him, then it's brutal. If you have 1503 01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:33,800 Speaker 1: a couple of you know, if Alvin and Jason were 1504 01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:38,120 Speaker 1: juniors and Chuck Horner gay a different story. But they 1505 01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:40,479 Speaker 1: all were going at the same time. So you lost 1506 01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,640 Speaker 1: four stars. The only started back was John Celistan and 1507 01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:48,559 Speaker 1: so it was definitely starting all over completely. How did 1508 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,960 Speaker 1: the A League change effect you? The league at that time, 1509 01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:57,479 Speaker 1: because was my year and that was the first year 1510 01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:04,200 Speaker 1: Notre Dame West Virginia. Who else was in it that? Yeah, 1511 01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:07,680 Speaker 1: Rutgers because that was Rutors kind of first game as well. Um, 1512 01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, Miami was always in it. This is before 1513 01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,040 Speaker 1: they added Louisville them. But how did that how the 1514 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:16,280 Speaker 1: league affect you? Um, you know, I didn't really feel 1515 01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:19,360 Speaker 1: like it did that much, you know, I mean, m 1516 01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,280 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I I didn't think it was. The league 1517 01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,040 Speaker 1: was always so hard. Now it just got you know, 1518 01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:30,240 Speaker 1: geographically bigger, and uh you know, so I don't I 1519 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:33,759 Speaker 1: don't think that really hadn't had much of an effect, 1520 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, and me not that those weren't all good 1521 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,920 Speaker 1: programs obviously, you know, you guys that Notre Dame, and 1522 01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:42,040 Speaker 1: you know Gail Catlett hadn't going to West Virginia at 1523 01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,240 Speaker 1: the time, Rutgers was struggling. Um, but no, I don't 1524 01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:49,000 Speaker 1: think it made a big difference. Yeah, I I think 1525 01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:53,560 Speaker 1: it's interesting though, because, um, one of the things that 1526 01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:56,320 Speaker 1: helped Jay get it going, and obviously he went to 1527 01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,320 Speaker 1: the Final four with that old Big East. But when 1528 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:01,920 Speaker 1: this thing really got going was when the Big East 1529 01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:07,560 Speaker 1: changed and went back to basketball only, and right you 1530 01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,599 Speaker 1: cut Syracuse out in Louisville out right, and now sudden, 1531 01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, they went from a that they were a 1532 01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,439 Speaker 1: kind of a middling program after his first after his 1533 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:21,360 Speaker 1: first Final Four, to a completely dominant team in the league, 1534 01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:23,800 Speaker 1: which gets you a better seed, which gives you a 1535 01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,840 Speaker 1: better momentum, which you know, they were just they were 1536 01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,160 Speaker 1: like a high major playing with kind of quasi mid 1537 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,800 Speaker 1: majors a little bit. And I just wonder if if 1538 01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:34,840 Speaker 1: in hindsight, you know, there were so many changes at 1539 01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:37,080 Speaker 1: that point in time in the Big East and with 1540 01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:40,120 Speaker 1: recruiting and with how things work. I'm just wondering, now, 1541 01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, twenty years later or so, how it looks well, 1542 01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:44,599 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, the best thing that ever 1543 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,479 Speaker 1: happened in Villanova was the New Big East. There's no question. 1544 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,640 Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it. You look, you look at 1545 01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,760 Speaker 1: the New Big East. I mean Villanova was always a 1546 01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,160 Speaker 1: very a good job, but it wasn't the best job 1547 01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 1: in that Old Big East. It was a good job, 1548 01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,600 Speaker 1: loke question, it was a very good job, but it 1549 01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,719 Speaker 1: wasn't the best job. All of a sudden you created 1550 01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,439 Speaker 1: a league where Villanova. You look at the teams you go, 1551 01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, Providence, Seaton, Hall of Georgetown, St. John's, Creighton Butler, 1552 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:14,080 Speaker 1: you say, Villenova's the best job in this league. So 1553 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:19,200 Speaker 1: now that changed everything. And Jay did basically what John 1554 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:23,639 Speaker 1: Cheney did in the Old Atlantic ten dominate the heck 1555 01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,680 Speaker 1: out of the league. And that's what he did. That 1556 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,479 Speaker 1: was the best thing that ever happened to Villanova. And 1557 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm not saying j J, like you said, went to 1558 01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:32,120 Speaker 1: the final four in the Old Big East. But as 1559 01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:36,240 Speaker 1: far as what really made that thing become what it's 1560 01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:38,920 Speaker 1: become in the last seven years is this New Big East. 1561 01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:41,640 Speaker 1: You know, think about the schools and think about how 1562 01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,120 Speaker 1: this Big Eas has helped Providence, and Cool is a 1563 01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,600 Speaker 1: great coach. He went to five n c as in 1564 01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:49,439 Speaker 1: a row. In the history of the school. They never 1565 01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,240 Speaker 1: Dave Gavitt coach there. They had never gone to five 1566 01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:54,920 Speaker 1: n c as in a row ever in the history. 1567 01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:56,720 Speaker 1: Now they go to five n c as in a row. 1568 01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Seat Hall. Yeah, they had some good years in the 1569 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,800 Speaker 1: Old Big East. J had some, But now c C 1570 01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,439 Speaker 1: Halls one of the better teams in the league year 1571 01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,320 Speaker 1: in and year out. Yes, it has been told. And 1572 01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,720 Speaker 1: those schools in the Old Big East, Yeah, they'd be 1573 01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:12,519 Speaker 1: good here and there, but not on a regular basis 1574 01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,280 Speaker 1: like they are now. Maybe Well I think I think 1575 01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:17,680 Speaker 1: what you're having is okay. So so yeah, this is 1576 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,000 Speaker 1: this is the the great talk. And it's so hard 1577 01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:24,120 Speaker 1: to have with anybody connected to those schools because you're 1578 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:28,280 Speaker 1: it's like you're telling them that there's some like phonies 1579 01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,040 Speaker 1: or something like, No, that's not one thing you got. 1580 01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:34,760 Speaker 1: You gotta play in a league that fits you geographically, 1581 01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:37,439 Speaker 1: that fits you in terms of you's gonna be competitive, 1582 01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,160 Speaker 1: balance to it. And if all things are equal, well, 1583 01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,280 Speaker 1: now seen all and Providence go in. But if seen 1584 01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:47,599 Speaker 1: all in Providence are going against Louisville. You know in Syracuse. Remember, 1585 01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,280 Speaker 1: like your your point out PJ. When PJ had success, 1586 01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,439 Speaker 1: it was the old eight team Big East, right, which 1587 01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,400 Speaker 1: is a lot. It's it's more similar to the one 1588 01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:59,840 Speaker 1: we're seeing now then than that gigantic one where you 1589 01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:02,960 Speaker 1: had the football schools and basketball schools and the gigantic 1590 01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:07,519 Speaker 1: just disparity really right. Um, Honestly, I don't I don't 1591 01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,679 Speaker 1: know if I've ever told you this, but when Kevin 1592 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,600 Speaker 1: took the Scene Hall job, their first choice was fran McCaffrey. 1593 01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,280 Speaker 1: And I told Franny, I was like, I think Seen 1594 01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,439 Speaker 1: Hall is a better job than Iowa. And he's like why, 1595 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,559 Speaker 1: and I said, well, because Seen Hall. In that Big East, 1596 01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:28,760 Speaker 1: you play Providence twice. You play South Florida twice a year. 1597 01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,560 Speaker 1: You play you know, you play because they would have 1598 01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,200 Speaker 1: the big boys play the big Boys, and then they'd 1599 01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,680 Speaker 1: have everybody else play each other twice. And so you 1600 01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,400 Speaker 1: could get ten Big East wins a year, but not 1601 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:44,280 Speaker 1: necessarily against the best teams except at home, right, Like 1602 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,760 Speaker 1: you beat Rutgers, you beat South Florida, whatever. Um. So 1603 01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,519 Speaker 1: there was some benefits to it, but generally it made it. 1604 01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:53,479 Speaker 1: It's also really hard to get people in your building 1605 01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,559 Speaker 1: when South Florida's come or when Rutgers was coming and whatever. 1606 01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:01,799 Speaker 1: Now you've got schools of all Miller size, some similar makeup, 1607 01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,960 Speaker 1: and you look at at how just about everybody depolls 1608 01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,320 Speaker 1: the the only team that hadn't really cracked the code. 1609 01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:11,400 Speaker 1: Just about everybody else and they're not original. Big Yeasts anyway, 1610 01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,240 Speaker 1: has has really benefited from the league as it was structured. Now, 1611 01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:18,880 Speaker 1: I wonder what Yukon does to it, if that kind 1612 01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,400 Speaker 1: of throws it out a kilter for a little bit, 1613 01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:23,240 Speaker 1: because Yukon is a is a public school and it 1614 01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:25,519 Speaker 1: does have great history and it feels like you've gotta 1615 01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:33,120 Speaker 1: go in again. But the league thing is an interesting factor. Um, alright, 1616 01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:37,360 Speaker 1: that's it for part two. I guess of Steve lappis 1617 01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,040 Speaker 1: we'll get to part three come next. Reminded the Doug 1618 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:44,479 Speaker 1: Gotlip Show. You can listen daily. It's three to five 1619 01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:48,840 Speaker 1: Eastern time noon to to Pacific Coast times, and then 1620 01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:51,920 Speaker 1: I do a pod only our which honestly that's got 1621 01:29:51,960 --> 01:29:54,439 Speaker 1: most of the ship that you want in it. Um 1622 01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:56,560 Speaker 1: it's called in the bonus, So if you download this, 1623 01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:59,639 Speaker 1: you can download that. Obviously, it's not just about basketball's 1624 01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:02,479 Speaker 1: about all sports, but we vamp on things it's the 1625 01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:04,000 Speaker 1: Doug Gotlip Show. You can listen to in the I 1626 01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,599 Speaker 1: Heeart Radio lapp or download the podcast where it exists. 1627 01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,200 Speaker 1: Tell a friend about this laps the best. You'll love 1628 01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:11,760 Speaker 1: some of the stories in part through that's up coming 1629 01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:13,639 Speaker 1: next time. I'm Doug Gotli. This is all bold