1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:07,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 2: Tonight, a young mom and dad walking with their children

3
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 2: on a stroll in the neighborhood when suddenly, out of nowhere,

4
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,479
Speaker 2: a married millionaire socialite comes flying around the curve after

5
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 2: a boozy date with her boyfriend.

6
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: Drag racing, Yes, drag racing.

7
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 2: Mom tries desperately to save all of her children, risking

8
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,559
Speaker 2: her own life to save them, but she could not

9
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:40,240
Speaker 2: reach two of her little boys. Tonight, after mowing down

10
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 2: two little boys dead and then fleeing the seed of

11
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 2: the crash, only stopping when her airbags deploy on her

12
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 2: Mercedes and it literally stopped. Now am I actually hearing

13
00:00:53,479 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 2: reports she is tampering with the jury. Good evening, I'm

14
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

15
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 2: with us.

16
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 3: Two SUVs are speeding toward a crosswalk where the Iskander

17
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 3: family is crossing. Nancy Askander says the cars are zigzagging

18
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 3: with each other as if they were playing or racing.

19
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 3: The drivers don't stop at the intersection, not even when

20
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 3: two children are hit. Nancy A. Skander says the cars

21
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 3: didn't stop even with her eleven year old son Mark

22
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 3: on the hood of the car he has found two

23
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty four feet away. Her eight year old son,

24
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 3: Jacob is tossed fifty feet and is lying near the curb.

25
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 2: You know, I've covered a lot of the hicular homicides.

26
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,039
Speaker 2: I have prosecuted vehicular homicides, and I don't believe I

27
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:47,320
Speaker 2: have ever seen a case where a human was thrown

28
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 2: two one hundred and fifty feet the other child thrownd

29
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:57,760
Speaker 2: fifty feet That is nearly the length of a football field.

30
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of back and forth about whether

31
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 2: she was drag racing or not.

32
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 1: Does it matter? After drinking and reportedly.

33
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,639
Speaker 2: Using drugs on some boozy date with her boyfriend, this

34
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:18,080
Speaker 2: multi millionaire woman, She's got everything, Why does she have

35
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 2: to do this? And then apparently the athlete boyfriend she

36
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 2: was canondling with goes and hides in the bushes and sees,

37
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 2: oh yeah, him, him, goes in highs to see what unfold.

38
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 2: Did anybody go out and try to save the boys?

39
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 2: Did they even stop? No, they didn't. And now is

40
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,760
Speaker 2: this real? She's actually trying to get to the judge,

41
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 2: trying to get friends to talk the judge into a

42
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 2: new trial, trying to reach out to giors to say

43
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 2: what what, trying to get a new trial, and even

44
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 2: contacting the boys mother and father with me an all

45
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 2: star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

46
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,280
Speaker 2: But first, to Amen Murphy joining us with the Acorn News,

47
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 2: Aimen what first?

48
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to get back to.

49
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 2: The actual lowing down the two little boys and then

50
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 2: continuing to go into your airbags, deploy and stop your mercedes.

51
00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 1: I'll get back to that.

52
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: But what can you tell me about this woman who

53
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 2: the judge amazingly says, Oh, she's just naive? Really, what

54
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 2: can you tell me about them trying to reach the

55
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 2: mom and dad of the little boy victims.

56
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 4: Well, she sent them a letter after she was convicted,

57
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 4: and they had previously expressed a desire not to be

58
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:46,560
Speaker 4: contacted by her.

59
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 5: Well, aim, when you're exactly correct. Listen, Nancy and Kareem

60
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 5: Eskinder endured the Denzil. They're two boys hitting killed by

61
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 5: social aite Rebecca Grossman speeding through the streets. Now, they

62
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 5: claim Grossman is writing them from jail after receiving a

63
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 5: love from grosswand on March thirteenth, the Eskinders reach out

64
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,279
Speaker 5: to the county, asking.

65
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 1: Officials to put a stop to it. You know, very curious.

66
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: Do we know aimon what she's writing about?

67
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 2: Now? This is after the victim's parents specifically say go away, woman,

68
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 2: leave us alone. Yes, she writes them to say what

69
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 2: she had a chance to apologize already.

70
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,320
Speaker 4: We're not sure what the letter said. It hasn't been

71
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 4: made public. The judge did order her not to have

72
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 4: any more contact, so we don't know at this point

73
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 4: what she said to to Nancy and Kareema Scander.

74
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 2: Take a listen to how this young mom describes the

75
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 2: moment she finds son, Jacob.

76
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,920
Speaker 6: His mother described finding Jacob near the curb. Dori say

77
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 6: he was thrown about fifty feet in the collision. She

78
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,280
Speaker 6: said it looked like he was sleeping, and she put

79
00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 6: her ear to his chest and heard his heart beating.

80
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 6: He was taking to the hospital, where he was pronounced

81
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 6: dead a few hours later. Mark was two hundred and

82
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 6: fifty four feet away, a distance a deputy who specializes

83
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 6: in crash incidents previously testified was the farthest he has

84
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 6: known a human to be tossed in a crash. His

85
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 6: mother said his body was crumpled and he had blood

86
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 6: pouring out of his nose. He was pronounced dead of

87
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 6: the scene straight.

88
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 2: Back to Aman Murphy joining us from the acorn. Tell

89
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,679
Speaker 2: me about what happened the day that these two little

90
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 2: boys were mowed down by socialite Rebecca Grossman. Well.

91
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 4: It was September twenty twenty and the family had gone

92
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 4: out to take a walk along the lake in Westlake

93
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 4: Village where they lived. It was covid, so they were

94
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 4: out getting some air. Nancy Ascander and her three sons

95
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 4: and went to cross the street towards the lake. Her

96
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 4: husband and their baby daughter had proceeded down the street further,

97
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 4: so they were separate at that point. While Nancy and

98
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 4: her sons were crossing the street, Nancy was in front

99
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 4: with her youngest boy, and the two older boys, Mark

100
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 4: and Jacob were behind them in the crosswalk. As Nancy

101
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:14,160
Speaker 4: got towards the curb in the second two lanes of traffic,

102
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,120
Speaker 4: because it's a four lane divided road, two SUVs came

103
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,159
Speaker 4: roaring up the road, a black and a white. The

104
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,360
Speaker 4: black was in front. She said they were zigzagging as

105
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,719
Speaker 4: if they were playing or racing. She grabbed her youngest

106
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 4: boy and dove out of the way of the first car,

107
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 4: the black car, and then the white car went through,

108
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,839
Speaker 4: and she turned and saw that Mark and Jacob were gone.

109
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 4: And Mark had been struck and was fifty feet forward,

110
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 4: and Jacob was sorry. Mark was two hundred and fifty

111
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 4: feet and Jacob was fifty feet and Jacob died at

112
00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 4: the hospital and Mark died at the scene.

113
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,159
Speaker 2: An ulstar panel and makes sense of what we know

114
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 2: right now to doctor jan Gorniac joining us, Doctor Gorniac,

115
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 2: Board certified forensic pathologist, renowned medical examiner for a medical

116
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 2: examiner Clark County, that's Vegas. Doctor Garniac has always such

117
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 2: an honor to have you on with us. Thank you

118
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 2: for taking time to be with us and address this case.

119
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 2: For a child to be thrown two hundred and fifty

120
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 2: four feet through the air, another child fifty feet one

121
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 2: of them was on the hood of the car for

122
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 2: a period of time, the internal injuries had to be horrific.

123
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 7: Yes, just looking at the vehicle, you see how much

124
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 7: damage is to the vehicle, and that's from impact to

125
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 7: the children, you know, horrifically. So I say that Jacob

126
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,160
Speaker 7: was the one that was to the curb, Do I

127
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 7: have that correct? And so and he was, and so

128
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 7: he his mom Unfortunately this is so Sad could still

129
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 7: hear his heart beating and was taken to the hospital

130
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 7: where he was later pronounced dead.

131
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 1: So he I'm.

132
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 7: Just looking at the the height difference. So unlike an

133
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 7: adult getting hit by a car, right, you think more

134
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 7: lower impact to the body. So the height of these kids,

135
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 7: you're thinking more chest impact and more head impact. So Jacob,

136
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 7: who was close, he probably you know, didn't fly up

137
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 7: onto the hood like Mark did, and that's why he

138
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 7: traveled more. So he probably got more depending on what

139
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 7: part of the suv hit him. He could have been

140
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 7: tossed by like the front corner panel and tossed. Meanwhile,

141
00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,600
Speaker 7: Mark got up on the hood and you can actually

142
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 7: see the indentation on the hood, and then was carried

143
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 7: by the speed and then when he was tossed off,

144
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 7: he went that far. So I'm surmising head trauma, definitely,

145
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 7: chest trauma, internal injuries, fractures, multiple, multiple injuries. And unfortunately,

146
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 7: obviously this is the story that we're talking about today.

147
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 2: Taking a look at these two little boys out walking

148
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,959
Speaker 2: with their mom and dad and sibling in their neighborhood

149
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 2: and they never make it back home. Why because Rebecca

150
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:39,599
Speaker 2: Grossman a wealthy socialite, plows them down with her Mercedes,

151
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,960
Speaker 2: playing some kind of a drag racing game with her boyfriend.

152
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 2: Where was her husband? Long story short? What happens next? Listen?

153
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,320
Speaker 5: Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant

154
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 5: front end damage a third of a mile from the scene.

155
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 5: Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding

156
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 5: the vehicle stopped at the curb, Engrossman saying she didn't

157
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 5: know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman speaks

158
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 5: to a nine to one to one operator, she's asked

159
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 5: if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard saying, I

160
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,439
Speaker 5: don't know what I hit.

161
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 1: But isn't it true?

162
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,560
Speaker 2: To Amon Murphy joining us from the acorn, she actually

163
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 2: a riald.

164
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,840
Speaker 1: Tried to blame.

165
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 2: The boyfriend and why was he hiding in the bushes

166
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 2: watching everything?

167
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 4: That was the whole defense was that the boyfriend's car,

168
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 4: the boyfriend being Scott Erickson, a former Major League Baseball pitcher,

169
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 4: that it was in fact his car that hit the boys.

170
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: First question, Yes, you think I care he was with

171
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 1: e MLB. I don't care.

172
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 2: I don't care who he is, I don't care if

173
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 2: he's Elvis Presley come back from the dead.

174
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,680
Speaker 1: Okay, he's hiding in the bushes.

175
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 2: Why why do people hide amon because they're afraid? Okay,

176
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 2: why is he afraid because he knows they've done something wrong?

177
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,760
Speaker 4: That's actually that was part of the defense, the hiding

178
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 4: in the bush's bit and it was a Grossman's daughter

179
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 4: who testified to that. Alexis Grossman said she saw Scott

180
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 4: Erickson hiding in the bushes. The prosecution disputed this, challenged

181
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,720
Speaker 4: her account of that evening and the hiding in the

182
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 4: bushes was was no deputy reported or anybody reported seeing

183
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,960
Speaker 4: anyone hiding in the bushes throughout the whole investigation. But

184
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 4: as part of the story that cast suspicion on Scott Erickson,

185
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,199
Speaker 4: it was said by Rebecca Grossman's lawyers that he hid

186
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 4: in the bushes to watch the investigation and also went

187
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,280
Speaker 4: back to confront Alexis Grossman saying, you know, don't tell

188
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 4: anybody about this, you know, threatening her and so on.

189
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 4: That was all part of the defense.

190
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, let me ask you a couple more questions

191
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 2: regarding the boyfriend. Now, is the boyfriend also married like

192
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 2: Rebecca grossmayos I believe he's divorced. Okay, So then no,

193
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,800
Speaker 2: I don't care who's cheating on, who, who's with who,

194
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 2: who's getting drunk at lunch. I don't care what they're

195
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 2: doing and their spare time. That's between her and her husband.

196
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 1: But when it comes to what happened after that, I

197
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: care crime stories with Nancy Grace. So that night, that night, tell.

198
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 2: Me aimon the cops come to her car, which is

199
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 2: now disabled because the air bag went off, And what

200
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 2: does she say, I didn't do it with the whole

201
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,960
Speaker 2: front end of the car bashed in.

202
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,319
Speaker 4: Well, she said that her airbag, she came around the

203
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,079
Speaker 4: corner and the airbag went off, and that she didn't

204
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 4: know what she hit. So that that was her position

205
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 4: immediately afterwards, and the deputies had indicated to her that

206
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 4: there was an accident and there were perhaps children involved,

207
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,680
Speaker 4: and she, you know, it was her position that she

208
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 4: hadn't seen, you know, what she had in the road

209
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 4: and that she didn't know why. Dera Beg went off.

210
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 2: Straight out to Matthew Mangino, joining US high profile lawyer,

211
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 2: former prosecutor, author of the Executioner's Toll, Get this crimes

212
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 2: arrest Trials appeals last meals and final words of the

213
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 2: executions of forty six people in the US. Okay, you

214
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 2: have me at last meals. The rest of that was

215
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 2: just fluff, that said Matthew Mangino. What is this woman thinking?

216
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 2: You know, first of all, point zero eight is typically

217
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 2: the legal limit throughout across our country.

218
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: Point zero eight.

219
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,840
Speaker 2: Now, this woman had valium and booze in her system.

220
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back to doctor Gorniack in just

221
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 1: a moment on this.

222
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 2: But man Gino, why don't we just mix those two together.

223
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: Shouldn't the blood alcohol be in hand when your act

224
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,680
Speaker 2: also popping pels?

225
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't get it. This woman has everything.

226
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,080
Speaker 2: She and her husband created this wonderful burn clinic that's

227
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 2: done so much good. She's like the nonprofit queen of California.

228
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 2: She's got it all. Designer, this designer that you name it.

229
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 2: Why does she have to get drunk and high on

230
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 2: valume at lunch with her boyfriend and do this?

231
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, she's obviously a very selfish person as well.

232
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 8: You know, she's going to use alcohol and valume. She's

233
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 8: going to drive through a residential area at a high

234
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 8: rate to speed, maybe drag racing with her lover as

235
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 8: she goes to her home.

236
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 2: Mangino, what do you mean, maybe drag racing?

237
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 1: Just say it, man.

238
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 2: The witnesses say, she's weaving back in fourth The boyfriend,

239
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 2: the one they climb, hid in the bushes after the crash.

240
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 2: He's weaving back and forth, two cars, weaving back and

241
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 2: forth in a residential area. Her speed seventy three mph.

242
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 2: I call that drag racing. That's what I call that,

243
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 2: and that's against the law. So why are you so

244
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 2: timid about it? Say it, man, Speak the truth.

245
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 8: I'm sorry, Nancy.

246
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 2: Oh now you're still apologizing. Don't this woman killed two boys?

247
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 2: She did think about your child at age eight, at

248
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 2: age eleven?

249
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 1: I mean, no shame, no shamman, Gino. Why couldn't we

250
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: merge the alcohol with the valume?

251
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know why. There couldn't be a relation

252
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,360
Speaker 8: back test, so we know three hours later she's at

253
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,480
Speaker 8: point zero eight. That means that if she hasn't had

254
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,080
Speaker 8: any alcohol, which I would assume she wouldn't, you could

255
00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 8: relate back. You know, with a toxic cology is to

256
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 8: show what her alcohol level might have been at the

257
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 8: time of the accident, and you mix that with valume.

258
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 8: At least in Pennsylvania where I practice, any drug in

259
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,520
Speaker 8: your system that could impair you could result in a

260
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 8: DUI because there's no way of measuring the level of

261
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 8: valume or the level of marijuana to determine whether or

262
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 8: not that you are under the influence. So just any

263
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 8: trace of it in your blood is enough to charge

264
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 8: somebody with driving under Therey.

265
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 2: Matthew, you're a veteran trial lawyer, and I say that

266
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 2: with a great deal of respect, because you know, there's

267
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,600
Speaker 2: a lot of lawyers that claim their trial lawyers because

268
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 2: they send interrogatories like written questions to the other side,

269
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 2: and then they write their answers, and then they send them.

270
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 1: Back and they go back.

271
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you've been in the courtroom, duking it out,

272
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 2: getting hot, sweaty, dirty, bloody in the courtroom.

273
00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: Trying a case on both sides. You know what.

274
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 2: This is what I've learned from my vehicular homicides. Point

275
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:13,679
Speaker 2: zero eight typically put a mail at four drinks. Okay,

276
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 2: point zero eight equals four drinks for an adult, So

277
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 2: she's had four alcoholic drinks.

278
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: And I don't mean a beer, I mean hard liquor.

279
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 1: Plus the valuume.

280
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 2: She's out of her gourd and trying to drive in

281
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 2: her big fat Mercedes at seventy three miles an hour.

282
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,680
Speaker 2: You know what, she probably didn't know what she hit.

283
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,399
Speaker 1: Matthew, Yeah, she may not have.

284
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 8: I mean, she is impaired, and she's driving through a

285
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 8: residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed, drag racing

286
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,159
Speaker 8: that ultimately, you know that, you know defense that I

287
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 8: don't know what I hit in my airbag deployed and

288
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 8: I continue driving and I never went back to see

289
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 8: what I hit. You know, all adds up to someone

290
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 8: who does know that they did something terribly wrong and

291
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 8: doesn't want to face that.

292
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,879
Speaker 6: In the hours before the crash, Grossman has seen drinking

293
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 6: marguerite as the former Mets and Yankees pitcher Scott Erickson.

294
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 6: Grossman and Rickson were reportedly driving from Julio's restaurant in

295
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 6: separate SUVs. Police said the two sped closely together through

296
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,679
Speaker 6: the crosswalk, with Ericson in the lead racing. Ericson is

297
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 6: charged with misdemeanor, but judge orders him to make a

298
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,679
Speaker 6: public service announcement about the importance of safe driving with

299
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 6: a teenage audience in mind. His case wrapped in twenty

300
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,440
Speaker 6: twenty two. Still Ericson's attorney maintains he wasn't racing or

301
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 6: driving recklessly and had no involvement in the hit and

302
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 6: run that killed the boys. Ericson's SUV shows no sign

303
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 6: of damage.

304
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 2: Okay, his suv shows no sign of damage to the boyfriend.

305
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 2: Hers is bashed in in the front, Yet she says

306
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 2: she didn't do it and tries to blame the boyfriend.

307
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 1: Guys.

308
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 2: The antics don't stop there. The dirty tactics of killer

309
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 2: socialite Rebecca Roastman all to try and get a new

310
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 2: trial go on. She mowed down to little boys while drunk,

311
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:16,400
Speaker 2: and on there they are, and on valium. And as

312
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 2: far as drag racing or not drag racing, listen.

313
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,479
Speaker 1: Two cars for racing.

314
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 3: We believe speed is a factor, alcohol is a factor.

315
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 2: You are hearing right there, Captain Salvador Bakara from the

316
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 2: La County Sheriff's Department.

317
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 1: That's our friends at NBCLA four.

318
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 2: A grown woman, a millionaire, drag racing drunk her Mercedes

319
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: joining me.

320
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: Audition to Karen Start.

321
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: Renowned psychologist is Robin Drake, behavior expert, former FBI special

322
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 2: agent and author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI

323
00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 2: agent'cy manual for behavior prediction. Also, it's not all about me.

324
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 2: He've got a ton of awesome books. Wow, okay, I've

325
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: only got time to put out two of them, Robin Drake,

326
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 2: What is a grown woman married?

327
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not the church lady.

328
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 2: If people want to run around, go go, I'd just

329
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: be mad if you didn't. But a grown woman with

330
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: everything she could possibly want ever, a family, a lovely family,

331
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:35,440
Speaker 2: a husband, a philanthropist, a mansion, the Mercedes, the clothes.

332
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: The hair, the this, the that. I mean, what is.

333
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: A grown woman drunk on valium, flying at seventy three

334
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 2: mph through a residential neighborhood and mowing down these two boys.

335
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 9: Well you said she's a grown woman, but she's not.

336
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 9: I mean, our first impressions we get when we hear

337
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 9: the stories like this that fill us her with rage

338
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 9: is exactly what we saw. We saw a drunk teenage

339
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 9: because that's when her development stopped, I think. And she's

340
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 9: chasing happiness through her life, and happiness she thinks is

341
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 9: through materialism, and so she keeps chasing it. She's caught

342
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 9: up in the cult of more to the disease of comparison,

343
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 9: and the tragedy came because of her being a drunk teenager.

344
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 9: It's really plain and simple because all her behaviors from

345
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 9: that point are exactly the same. It's me, me, Me.

346
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 9: Even that letter that she sent to the family that

347
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 9: she wasn't supposed to, I guarantee you if we had

348
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 9: a copy of that, it would be all about her.

349
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 2: Okay, Robin Drake, I'm totally with you, except when you

350
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: say she's a junk teenager. Everybody in this studio and

351
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: huh what Okay, because that's kind of letting her off

352
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: the hook.

353
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 1: She's not a teenager.

354
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 2: She's a fifty something year old woman. She's gorgeous. She

355
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 2: has this everything you could possibly want in life, all right,

356
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: and calling her even if you think her her development

357
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: stopped as a team, it didn't. This woman is at

358
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: one charity ball after the next in designer clothes.

359
00:21:59,600 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: You know.

360
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 2: Karen Stark, can you help me because I obviously was

361
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: not clear in my question to Robert Drink, former FBI

362
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: I expected something different from him.

363
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let him think about what he said.

364
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: Karen Stark Renow TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com.

365
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: Karen joining us today from Manhattan helped me, Karen, what

366
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: is it? What the more all your dreams come true,

367
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 2: the more your prayers are answered, the wors she become.

368
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: That's completely bast ackwards and then trying to pin it

369
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 2: on the boyfriend, Nancy. She's a narcissist. She's not a teenager.

370
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 10: I'm sorry to say, but she really is a narcissist

371
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 10: who only thinks about herself. Think about what she said.

372
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 10: Even with the jury, they're not a good jury. Why

373
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 10: are they not a good jury? Because I can already

374
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,160
Speaker 10: tell they're not going to be on my side. And

375
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 10: you bet that what she wrote to that family, which

376
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 10: she wasn't supposed to write, was all of that mouse.

377
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 10: She didn't mean it, She couldn't have done it. She

378
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 10: didn't know, and yet she knew. She hit so thing.

379
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 10: I don't know what I hit, but I hit something.

380
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 10: She's totally responsible for what happened.

381
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 2: Karen, Please come down out of your ivory tower for

382
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 2: just one moment. I know she's responsible. I'm saying, what,

383
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: why does she do this? What is her behavior?

384
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 8: Why?

385
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: I don't understand it?

386
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: Because I have this plat I guess you would call

387
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: it sits on our kitchen island. And you know what

388
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 2: it says. It says I remember what I prayed for,

389
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: the things I have now, my husband, my family, my

390
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: mom is still with me.

391
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: You know.

392
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: Hell, this incredible job, so many blessings.

393
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: I see that every single morning.

394
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: But it seems like some people get all these prayers answered,

395
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: all these blessings, and they just gobble it up and

396
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: keep gobbling it up at everyone else's expense. And even

397
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: now that she's convicted, she's trying to get somebody to

398
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: get to the judge, to influence the judge in this case,

399
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: trying to contact the Gurrrs and Kara Start. I learned

400
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: about this as a prosecutor. The defense will send out

401
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: their own PI private investigator, and they won't tell the

402
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: witness or the gurror or the whoever I work for

403
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: the defense. They go, hey, I'm a private investigator working

404
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: on the case of Blah, and then they'll try to

405
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: get information out of the target. A lot of these

406
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 2: people said, we didn't even know who we were talking to.

407
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: They didn't identify they were working for her. Rebecca Grosberg,

408
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: I just explain to me what this behavior is even

409
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: now trying to manipulate the system.

410
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 10: I know it's hard to believe Nancy, but she doesn't

411
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 10: care about anyone but herself. Yes, she has everything in

412
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 10: the world, and you're grateful, and I like to think

413
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 10: I am really grateful, But she could care less because

414
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 10: she believes she's entitled to have what she has, and

415
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 10: she's entitled to get away with this and say that

416
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 10: she's innocent and influence the jurors and have it be

417
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 10: all about her, not what she did. She doesn't care

418
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 10: what she did. She's going to make sure that she's

419
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 10: going to get off and be okay.

420
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

421
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 6: Prosecutors fear Grossman maybe using her phone privileges to find

422
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 6: someone to get to Judge Joseph Brandolino to convince the

423
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 6: judge to give her a new trial. Prosecutors say the

424
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 6: recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requested as

425
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: close protected discovery, discussions of various attempts to interfere with

426
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 6: witnesses and their testimony. In one call, Grossman tells her

427
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 6: husband to talk to her ex lover, former major league

428
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 6: pitcher Scott Ericson. On the recording call, February twenty fifth,

429
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 6: Rebecca Grossman tells her husband to quote call Scott ericson

430
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 6: and tell him to get on a video and that

431
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 6: he needs to confess.

432
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: Aimon Murphy, an investigative reporter writer for the Acorn News,

433
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 2: aimen again, thank you for being with us.

434
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: What did I just hear?

435
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: She actually is trying to suborn perjury and nobody's doing

436
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: anything trying to get the boyfriend to make.

437
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: A video or what catch him on video.

438
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: Or record him on the phone, trying to get him

439
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: to claim he's the one that mowed down the little boys.

440
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: That's suborning perjury.

441
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: Well, the judge addressed that in court. His position was

442
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: they weren't asking Scott Erickson to do anything that they

443
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 4: didn't think was true.

444
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: That's what the judge said.

445
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: Wait wait, whit whit whit whit Wait wait hold on, amen,

446
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: I'm having a hard time ingesting what you're just saying.

447
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: Is this the same judge that sat through the jury trial?

448
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 4: Yes, same judge.

449
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so he knows that it was Rebecca Grossman that

450
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: mowed down the two little boys.

451
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 4: Yes, no, well he knows that that was what the

452
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 4: jury found.

453
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: He didn't see that picture that I just saw of

454
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 2: the front end of her white Mercedes bashed in from a.

455
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: Little boy getting run down. He didn't see that.

456
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: He saw that, and more he heard from experts talking

457
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 4: about how the impact matched the position of the boys,

458
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 4: even how the pattern on the grill matched wounds on

459
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 4: one of the boys.

460
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: So he heard all about that. Okay, I'm going to

461
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: ask a tough question, Amon Murphy. So the judge saw that.

462
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: The judge heard the testimony. The judge, you noticed what

463
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: the jury said.

464
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: But this judge actually stated with a straight face, well,

465
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: trying to get her boyfriend to say.

466
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: He really ran the boys down, that's not.

467
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: Really suborning perjury because she thinks they think it's true.

468
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: It's not true. It is suborning perjury. Why is this

469
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: judge beaming over.

470
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: Backwards, contorting the facts and the law and Rebecca Grossmand's favor.

471
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: Why, Aimen, I.

472
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 4: Mean, I can't speculate about, you know, what's going on

473
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 4: in the judge's head. I think throughout the process that

474
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 4: I've seen, he's been at pains to be very even

475
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 4: handed in the sense of ensuring a process that is

476
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 4: totally fair and you know, would hold up on appeal

477
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 4: to be really frank, because now we do have emotion

478
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: for a new trial, which is not an appeal, but

479
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 4: it is an attempt to question the process that led

480
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: to the conviction, and all of it is being questioned

481
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 4: by her new lawyers. So the judge, I think, wanted

482
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 4: to make sure all the boxes were checked, you know,

483
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: all the eyes dotted, all the tea's crossed.

484
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: Well, is it true?

485
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: Also, Aimon Murphy from the Acorn that he kind of

486
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: wrote off all of her behavior.

487
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: And this is not just her.

488
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: Somebody's on the other end of that phone, that jail

489
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: phone that is recording FYI, somebody's going along with it,

490
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: aid a betting, encouraging her, responding to her. That is

491
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: what we call under the law, Matthew Mangino, a conspiracy

492
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: to commit a crime when you have someone colluding and

493
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: aiding and a betting encouraging that's conspiring to do a

494
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: bad thing. This woman is convicted of a double vehicular

495
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: homicide and now she's trying to get her ex lover

496
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: to go on video and say okay, I did it.

497
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: That is the borning perjury, Mangino. Why is a judge

498
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: dancing around it like a ballet artist.

499
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 8: Well, The first thing that's most appalling is that she

500
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 8: was able to contact the victims in this case. Normally

501
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 8: after conviction, and even when you're on bell there's a

502
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 8: no contact order, you can't reach out contact the victims

503
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 8: as a defendant directly. The issue with regard to talking

504
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 8: to jurors, that's common. Private investigator is going to talk

505
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 8: to jurors.

506
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: Unless they're trying to get them to claim misdoing, like

507
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: an Alex murdog and trying to get a new try.

508
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: And you think that's okay. No, it's not okay.

509
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 8: But it's not necessarily inappropriate to reach out to jurors

510
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 8: after a case. But what is inappropriate and illegal is

511
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 8: to try to influence the outcome of your appeal by

512
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 8: number one, trying to seek someone to talk to the judge.

513
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 8: Number two, by trying to influence witnesses in some way

514
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 8: and trying to have someone confess that you know is

515
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 8: not guilty, have that person confess to the crime. I

516
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 8: think it's a wild idea and no one's going to

517
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 8: do it.

518
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: Still suborning perjury.

519
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: Can you just say yes, no, Matthew Mangino, I don't

520
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: know why am I saying inappropriate it's more than in

521
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: a it's suborning perjury. You're trying to get someone to

522
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: lie about what happened and submit it, show it to

523
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: the court.

524
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino.

525
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: The jury has spoken, the judge knows what happened, and

526
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: now this woman is trying to get a new trial

527
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: based on perjured testimony.

528
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: Is that not suborning perjury? Matthew You, well, it would be.

529
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 8: But Nancy, the idea here, and this is where I

530
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 8: think the judge is talking maybe about being naive. Do

531
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 8: you think someone is going to come forward and confess

532
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 8: to killing two children because your husband?

533
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: No, I don't you know what I think.

534
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: I think that some people for the right amount of

535
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: money a million dollars and knowing that they would be

536
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: acquitted at trial if the boyfriend went on trial.

537
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: Let's just get real. What about a drake.

538
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: If the boyfriend goes on trial, If the boyfriend does

539
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: this video that she's asking him to do, and he

540
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: just goes on trial, okay, or her case gets reversed

541
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: because of it new evidence, he's going to get acquitted

542
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: because all his lawyers got to do is say, hey,

543
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: they already convicted her. Siam and they'll let him go too.

544
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: Under those circumstances, he might do it.

545
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 9: Yeah.

546
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: Maybe. And I don't like any of this having to

547
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: do with the judge. I don't like any of it

548
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: having to.

549
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 9: Do with the fact that hal Com it took them

550
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 9: three hours for law enforcement to give her to blog

551
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 9: alcohol test. I just don't like the look of all

552
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 9: the confirmation bias in her favor going on here. So

553
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 9: I'm I don't put it by it. I don't think

554
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 9: it was naivitate at all. I think it was completely

555
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 9: her trying to subvert the system for her own benefit.

556
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell you my theory.

557
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: My theory is Robin Drake that Rebecca Grossman and her

558
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: husband are wealthy.

559
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: They're millionaires with high social standing versus the scanders.

560
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: Who are nowhere, nowhere in money, in power, in prestige

561
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: that the Grossmans have, and so everybody is bending over

562
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: backwards to help the Grossman's. She is behind bars, trying

563
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: to get her friends to influence the judge, trying to

564
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: reach the jurors to do what recan't say that they

565
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: that was not a true verdict, change their minds post

566
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: a verdict, trying to suborn perjury, and nothing is happening.

567
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: In fact, the judge actually calls her, quote naive, help me, Dreek,

568
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 2: this is BS.

569
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 9: I totally agree, Nancy, And whenever we see a behavior

570
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 9: like this, it's very rarely the first time the behavior

571
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 9: has happened. And so I think they just have in

572
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 9: this area with that kind of affluence, they probably have

573
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 9: a reputation and a lifetime of reps, as I call them,

574
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 9: of doing just this kind of thing, having favoritism towards

575
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 9: this part of society. And I think it's incredibly unjust

576
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 9: two little boys who were murdered by her, complete narcissistic negligence.

577
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 6: When Rebecca Grossman adds defense attorney James Furtis to our

578
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 6: team the prosecution of Jack's over a possible conflict of interest,

579
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 6: as Spurtis currently represents Diana Taran from the Los Angeles

580
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 6: District Attorney's Office. Tiranas charged with eleven felonies for allegedly

581
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 6: misusing confidential law enforcement records, but before she was charged

582
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 6: with those crimes, she oversaw the prosecutors Engrossman's second degree

583
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 6: murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors

584
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 6: from the case due to a potential conflict of interest

585
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 6: straight out.

586
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: To a special guest joining us Aimon from Acorn Murphy.

587
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: What exactly is the alleged conflict of interest that could

588
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: result in a new trial for Rebecca Grossman.

589
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: Well, it's not that the conflict would result in a

590
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 4: new trial. It's more that it could be an issue

591
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 4: on appeal. The conflict is that James Burtis, her new lawyer,

592
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 4: also represents Diana Turan, who was an assistant district attorney

593
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 4: supervising the prosecution of Rebecca Grossman. So at first the

594
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 4: prosecutors filed emotion saying this is a potential conflict because

595
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: he's representing a defendant who was prosecuted by a team

596
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 4: that she oversaw. Then they looked into it further and

597
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: they filed emotion earlier this month saying there's an actual

598
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 4: conflict here because when James Burtis prepares a motion for

599
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 4: a new trial, one argument he might make is prosecutorial

600
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 4: misconduct that would require him impugning the work of his

601
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: other client. So that's a conflict for her Diana Turan.

602
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 4: And if he doesn't do that on appeal, Rebecca Grossman

603
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 4: could claim, well, he didn't do that because he was

604
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 4: representing Diana Turenn, and he didn't want to call her

605
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:09,479
Speaker 4: work into question.

606
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 2: The judge has just ruled there is no conflict of

607
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: interest in Grossman's case after she hired a lawyer who

608
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: also That lawyer also represents a woman who used to

609
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: work for the DA's office, and that woman oversaw the trial.

610
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: So there is a lawyer that represents a form a prosecutor.

611
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: That prosecutor has now caught some charges. That prosecutor worked

612
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: on Grossman's prosecution. Okay, So Grossman goes and hires the

613
00:36:52,360 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: lawyer for the prosecutor. That's her decision. She knows about

614
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: the conflict and she's waiving the conflict by hiring that lawyer.

615
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: Correct.

616
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 4: The judge didn't find an actual conflict. He did have

617
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: her wave the potential conflict so that it won't come

618
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 4: up as an appeal issue. The charges against Diana Turenn

619
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 4: were announced about a month after James Burtis became attorney

620
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 4: of record for Rebecca Grossman, so she was not charged

621
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 4: at that point when he joined Rebecca Grossman's team, but

622
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 4: his firm had represented her in the past in another matter,

623
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: and the judge said, you know, these cases are not related,

624
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 4: so we don't have an actual conflict, but out of

625
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 4: an abundance of caution, we'll have the defendant waive this

626
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: as a potential issue so she can't bring it up

627
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: down the road.

628
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: Just more heartache for the victim's parents. We wait as

629
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: justice unfolds, and we stopped to remember American hero Deputy

630
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: share of David Bosker, shot and killed in the line

631
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: of duty. Deputy Bosker, a US Marine veteran twenty one

632
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: years in law enforcement, survived by grieving wife Brenda and

633
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: stepson John. American hero Deputy Sheriff David Bosker. Thank you

634
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 2: to all of our guests for being with us tonight,

635
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: but especially to you for joining with us. Nancy Gray

636
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 2: signing off, good night friend,