WEBVTT - Boundaries, Dependency, and Healthier Relationships with Nedra Tawwab 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.040 What's behind Beyonce A whole lot of help being self made? 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.320 It sounds really strong. We are starting to see some 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:12.239 people who have been highly functioning on their own sort 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:13.240 of crash. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.960 Nedra is a licensed therapist with a community of over 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.000 two million on Instagram. She reaches the global audience each 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.639 week through her podcast You Need to Hear This. In 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.279 her newest book, The Balancing Act, Nedra offers a roadmap 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.800 to creating relationships that on a both dependency and individuality. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.960 Tell me what a healthy, wonderful, not codependent relationship looks like. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.080 We're not very flexible with people. When people have a limitation, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.600 it doesn't mean gosh, I got it in the relationship 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.680 with this person. A conflict free relationship isn't healthy because 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:43.839 that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah, so some 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.519 conflict is good for the relationship. You have to question 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.440 the experience of being with the one. Maybe this was 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.200 one of the ones. There may be another one. You 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.800 got your ones mixed up. I don't know what the 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.480 universe has for you, but today this is the two 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:03.520 right the one. 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.680 I'm radi wkah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry, 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.600 we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.759 for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.720 to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Noda, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.360 thank you so much for being here. I deeply enjoyed 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:24.360 reading your book. I felt like I learned so much 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.319 from it. So first I just want to say thank 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.320 you for being here and blessing us with your presence. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.440 Thank you for having me. This is this is going 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.680 to be good. I feel the calmness entering my spirit. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.520 You actually really have that energy. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.000 As soon as you walked in and I was in 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.640 your sphere of energy, I was like, Wow, she's a 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.759 very calm person and I really appreciate that. 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.040 So thanks for bringing that here. You're welcome. I wanted 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:50.360 to ask you just to start off. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.160 So I know you've already had two incredible books that 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.320 have come out, both on different topics. What brought you 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.920 to write this book and why this topic in particular. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.720 Yeah, So, what I'm noticing now with some of my 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:09.880 clients is more disconnection in their relationships. And I think 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.959 when we seek boundaries and we seek healing, and we 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.160 seek all these things, it needs to be in tandem 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.880 with connection. And so it's very important to me to say, hey, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.480 we could be dependent in healthy ways. We don't have 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:30.360 to erase everything. We don't have to reject all things 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.000 or have these you know, strong rules about stuff in 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.880 every situation. We have to be flexible because being connected 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.280 leads to better mental health, longer life span, all sorts 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.359 of things. But it's positive for us to have these connections. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.320 And I see that we're losing them. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.600 And obviously you've had you've had many clients, and you've 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.640 done this for such a long time. What are you 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.120 noticing or what past things are you noticing that people 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:58.920 are having that is causing this disconnection. 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.799 I think people are more self aware and maybe a 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:10.239 little less sometimes other tolerating. Okay, right, so I'm more 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.520 self aware and the things that people won't change or 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.480 haven't change is annoying. Now, there are some things that 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.560 I think we can all agree are toxic, unhealthy, abusive, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.640 But then there are other things where it's like you 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.440 may have a friend where you need to just have 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.079 a conversation with them and say, hey, you can't call 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.919 me seven times today, I'm not available. It doesn't mean 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.080 the relationship needs to end or you need to confront them. 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.560 But it's just like I'm not available that much. I 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.440 have a busy work schedule. I will, you know, maybe 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.200 chat with you when I'm done, but you know, reassuring people, 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.480 letting them know that you want to be in a 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.680 relationship and it's still important to you. Yeah, I know. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.760 I feel like sometimes it's really difficult to know whether 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:59.040 the boundary between being self aware and then being selfish, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.360 like being so self obsessed in not self obsessed in 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.000 an extiboy, but being so self aware that it kind 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.760 of turns into self obsession where you're being so protective, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.720 so rigid with the way that you want to live 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.120 your life, and then you have like this lack of 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.760 consideration maybe for others, because I feel like in society 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.279 we're told now it's so much about self care, self regulation, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.119 self self self and I think that sometimes can stop 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.400 us from connecting with people and actually taking other people 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:28.520 into consideration. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:33.039 As much agreed. Tonight, I have a friend date with 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.200 a friend who just happens to be in work from Charlotte. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.080 She's here working and she was like, well, let me 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:40.960 know what hotel you're saying it so I could get 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.600 a room. I said, you don't have to do that. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:43.520 We can share a room. 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:43.839 Yeah. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.119 She was like really. I was like, yeah, old school 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:51.200 sleepover with Yeah. Now she was like okay, yeah, but yeah, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.280 we live in a society now it's like separate room 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.640 more division, can't share. Oh my gosh, what if she 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.560 wants the room too warm? I'm like, will work it out. Yeah, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.560 being a little bit more flexible than like, I will 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.880 work it out, like maybe I'll put on an extra 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.640 shirt or something like it a little chillier. But I 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:11.760 really want to spend this time with you, and I 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.760 think if we go to our separate rooms, that's less 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.200 time that we get to spend together. Yeah, that's so true. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.120 That's such a nice way to think about it actually, 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.400 especially in situations where you don't feel comfortable, like sometimes 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.040 putting yourself out of your comfort zone when it comes 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.640 to building connections is how you can create better relationships. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.320 And I find with I mean speaking for myself, when 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.600 I moved countries and I came here, I noticed I 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:40.120 had to put myself into uncomfortable communication and uncomfortable scenarios 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.640 to actually build relationships with people. Otherwise, if I kept 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.160 myself to myself, I would have probably felt really lonely 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:46.800 when I was here. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.159 Yeah, and I think you have to go the distance 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.080 in those situations. It's like, Okay, I had lunch with 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.040 that person, it was pretty cool, and let's follow up. Yeah, yes, 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:01.120 abandon it because sometimes we'll start that connection, will notice 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.880 that spark, and then we just like let it fizzle totally. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.040 You have to keep it going, Yeah, you really do. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.160 What are some practical tools that you find if people 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.120 are feeling a little bit lonely but also find themselves 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.120 being someone who doesn't connect as easily. What are some 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.960 easy tips of tools that people can use to get 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.440 themselves to a place but they are able to connect better. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:26.560 Who's already in your orbit? Sometimes we're not noticing who 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.279 has been saying do you need any help? You want 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.680 to go out for coffee? Yeah, yeah, let's get it. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:37.160 Sometimes really follow up on that. Maybe there's someone already 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.599 there and you don't need to seek out any new people. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.479 Are there some old people around? Because sometimes we have 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.920 lost some connections that we just need to send that 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.799 text or we need to say, hey, it's been a while, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.480 Yeah I'd love to reconnect with you. So meeting the 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.839 new people is great and also who's already here. What 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.600 do I need to nurture? What can can flourish with 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:05.480 a little bit of care and love and attention. From 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.239 my perspective. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.880 It's so interesting because these days, when you do follow 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:11.960 up with people, when you say let's get coffee and 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.120 you actually message them, I noticed, it's such almost like 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.520 a shock that that actually happened, that this person actually 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.440 followed up. And my mom has that characteristic of she 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.400 if she says she's going to do something, or she's 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.400 going to make a call for you, or she's gonna 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:27.720 message you, she will absolutely do it, like she will 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.320 go that extra mile for you. But I've noticed in 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.360 our generation it's so much harder for people to actually 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.760 do that, yeah, to follow through, and when they do, 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.680 it's like a surprise, Oh, well, that person actually messaged me. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.640 I think sometimes because we are so busy, we have 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.160 to remember it's not that people don't want to be 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.600 in community with us. Sometimes they are busy. We are busy, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.400 and these things just fall out if we don't keep 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.240 them going. Yeah, and also with relationships, I think it's 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:01.360 really important that we give people a strategic thing they 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.280 can do. So if I want to connect with you. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.040 It's like, hey, are you available on the thirteenth at 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:08.160 five o'clock for dinner? 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:08.640 Yes? 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.800 Finish the finish the sentence right right. You want to 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:17.760 connect because sometimes people forget that, but sometimes people want 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.000 to connect and it's all of this other noise in 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.000 life and we can't have those connections. But giving them 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.800 something strategic and solid, like can we do this on 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.200 this date at this time. It works very well. If 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.240 I text a friend and I say like, hey, want 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.240 to grab dinner? Usually I follow up with a RESI invite. Yeah, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.679 you add yourself to the it's done. And I have 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.120 one friend she's like, thank you girl. You are always yeah, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.120 And I'm like, I am, but it's only because I 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.040 don't want to have ten text messages about doing the 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.400 thing and then we never do the thing. It's so true, 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.080 I'm saying any of them, it's like we've been talking 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.280 about connecting for a very long time. We haven't actually 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:02.640 scheduled anything. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.079 Yeah, that's yeah. My husband's really good at that. Actually 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.160 I'm getting better at It's something I'm working on for sure. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.720 In your book, you talk about a dependency spectrum. Could 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.240 you share a little bit more about that and educate 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:16.800 us on what that looks like. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.480 And is everyone on that spectrum? Yes, everybody is on 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.160 the dependency spectrum. I would say on the unhealthy end 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.079 of it, you see more codependency, and you see more enmeshment. 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.840 And then on the healthier and would you would see 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.959 where you can exist in relationships and give and take 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.200 and rejuvenate. But I would say, if we look at 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:43.560 the spectrum like this, one end is codependency enmeshment, than 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:49.319 this other end is counterdependency or hyper independence, where you 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.160 feel this need to do things without people, where you're 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:57.440 more avoidant of relationships and connection, or you have this 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.560 do it yourself approach. And then in the middle, you know, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.480 right there in the middle, that's where we can invite 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.160 people in. We can let them know what our needs are. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:11.319 We can place our boundaries gently, we can have tough conversations. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.640 We can be flexible. We allow other people to be flexible. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.000 You know, one of the big things I'm noticing now 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:23.600 is we're not very flexible with people. Sometimes when people 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.959 have a limitation, it doesn't mean gosh, I got to 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.280 end the relationship with this person because they don't want 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.360 to start doing yoga with me, it's like, that's not 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.240 your yoga friend. Yeah, yeah, you have to find new people. Yeah, 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.280 it might be somebody who's already going to the classes 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.000 or someone you ask in another setting, but it's not 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.120 this person, and you can still have a relationship with them. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.600 But you know, sometimes we're like, no, this person has 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.160 if you're a friend, it means this, this, this, and this. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.680 When we can be flexible and say, well, huh, okay, 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:56.760 you're not a friend for that. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.440 And the spectrum that you mentioned, you said one side 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.200 of it as could you elaborate on that littabit and 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.920 give some signs and like symptoms of what it might 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.239 look like if you are in that kind of relationship. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:12.000 Yes, So one side I would say is enmeshment, which 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:17.760 is having a I don't want to say just close connection, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.880 but one where you do everything together, you think alike, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.000 you're unable to have any separation. Sometimes this happens in families, 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.360 and it's fine until one person wants something different. It's 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.320 fine until maybe somebody else comes into that system and 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.440 they're like, what is happening here? Why are you sleeping 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.360 in the bed with your mom? 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:38.559 Right? 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.760 Come on, he're my partner. Don't do this, so you know, 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.079 they start to notice, like these things are weird. You're 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.400 talking to your mom like twenty times a day, like 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.640 that's you know, and if that's okay for you, and 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.640 it's fine, it's really not a problem, right because you 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.520 all are mutually agreeing to this, But it becomes problematic 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.640 when one person wants to break out of that sort 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.320 of sins. And then I would say, pretty much akin 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.760 to that is codependency, where we are helping someone who 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:13.000 has some unhealthy thing along to their detriment. We're doing 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.679 it to feel this need we have to be wanted, 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.800 to be needed, to have some space, and sometimes we 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:24.200 are you know, I think with codependency, we are showing 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.200 that I love this person and I want to help them. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.480 The challenge is it's just not helpful, right, you know, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.760 you can't get this person to do something in their 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.120 life that they're not interested in, no matter what their 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.440 potential is, no matter you know what you give them. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.600 Sometimes people have to do those things on their own. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.520 So the codependency is like I'm going to save them, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.080 and then the ameshment is like I have to be 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.760 with them all the time, and then you know, the 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.920 opposite end of that, we have counterdependency where people have 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.520 you know, based on you know, maybe some trauma in 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:04.160 a relationlationship, or some family upbringing stuff that I need 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.880 to do things on my own. Relationships are a place 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.280 of pain. If people get too close, they can hurt me. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.640 And so with that you don't have any people. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.880 I feel like it's also trying to prove yourself right, 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.120 like that I can do things by myself. Sometimes it 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.800 can be you feel like people have done too much 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.240 for you in your life, and then you get to 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:27.680 an age where you're saying, no, no, I want to 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.920 prove that I can do things by myself. And in 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.720 your book you talk about being self made, and I 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.120 really love the point that you made in that about 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.760 how no one's actually have a self made no, like, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.240 you never do anything by yourself. 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.640 It made me a cup of tea. Yeah this wasn't 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.960 self made. Somebody made the tea. Yeah, you know, so 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.200 is that even a real thing? You know, we rely 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:54.000 on people, whether we see them or we don't. We 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.440 are relying on other people for our goods, for our living. 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:01.640 You know, your power, your your gas, all of those 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:06.479 things come from other places in the world. Outside yourself. 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:12.120 I think the thing with being self made it sounds 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.240 really strong, Yeah, exactly. Sound was like, oh my gosh, 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.240 I'm like this fearless person. I don't need any people. 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.720 And it's unfortunate. Actually, it's very sad. You know. I 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.000 do think we get less needy with time. When you 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.400 think of an infant, like they're one hundred percent needy. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.560 you can't even hold your head up. It's like you 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.320 need help with everything. Yeah. And then you you know, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.760 you get a little older and you can do these things, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.120 but you still need people in some capacity. You never 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.600 grow out of needing, No, you really don't. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.280 And I think, and I always I loved what you 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.400 said in your book about we're supposed to be needy, 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.600 Like we as humans are meant to be needy. We're 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.240 supposed to need other people. And the moment you end 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.840 up thinking that it's just you, you not only put yourself up, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.560 you know, you disadvantage yourself because you're not allowing the 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.040 kind of the connections. And the more the hands that 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.320 you can hold, the more you have the capability of doing, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.600 and the more people that you allow into your life, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.120 the more opportunities and experiences that you get. And so 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.880 I feel like, if you constantly think that I'm going 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.480 to do this by myself, I can do it by myself. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.440 I will and I don't. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.640 Need anyone to help me. You're almost putting yourself at 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.200 such a disadvantage. I feel like for a lot of women, 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.960 especially because of how society has become, we're always wanting 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.000 to prove ourselves, to show that we don't need other people, 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.440 like that we can do things by ourselves, because I mean, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.040 I've noticed that a lot of my friends and even 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:39.840 in myself, I went through a phrase of saying, I 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.240 don't need anyone to pick. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:41.680 Up my bags. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.600 I don't need anyone to you know, if I'm scared 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.800 at night of walking somewhere, I don't actually need anyone 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:48.560 to take me there because I am capable of going 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.440 by myself. And I think there's this constant proving of 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.600 being a strong independent woman as being a positive and 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.160 it being such a big thing. But it's also okay 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.040 to lean into your feminine feel like you do need 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.200 other people to support you. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.440 Yeah, And I think we are starting to see some 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.200 people who have been highly functioning on their own sort 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.080 of crash, yeah, because it is a lot to always 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.920 be the responsible party, to be the person who has 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.320 everyone coming to them, to be, you know, the strong one, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.880 and you don't have anywhere to go. Like that's I 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.040 hope it's you know, trending down. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.840 and that we are learning that it's it's okay to 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.680 embrace people, like to have more people to help you 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.200 with things. Yeah, that's that's how you go further. You know. 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.680 Sometimes we look at people in our fields and we 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.960 admire them, and it's like, what's behind Beyonce? A whole 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.800 lot of help? Yeah, a whole lot of help. I mean, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.120 just the decisions that she doesn't have to make because 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:59.200 other people are helping her helps her to be this superstar. Yeah, 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.119 she couldn't do all this stuff like that's not possible. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.480 So we have to embrace to be a better version 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.239 of ourselves. We too need to ask for help, and 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:14.560 sometimes if we can't pay for the help. Some of 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.720 us are fortunate enough to have housekeepers or to have 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.399 a babysitting service, or laundry services or all these things, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.560 we have to think about who in our community could help. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.399 Can I go over to my friend's house once a 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.119 week for dinner and she comes over to mind that 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:35.000 takes me having a cook out of the loop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.359 That's helpful. That's enough. Yeah, we have to get creative 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:45.200 around what being in connection and in partnerships with others 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.840 in this life really looks like, Yeah, I love that. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.120 I wanted to go back to what you were saying 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.080 about codependency, because you know, I feel like there's two 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.560 different types of couples that I've. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:55.560 Been seeing a lot. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.760 Either a couple who they get together and then they 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.800 literally do everything together. They rely on each other so 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.320 much they become really insular where sometimes their friends don't 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.520 even matter, like everything ends up being them two together 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.520 doing everything together. Do you think that that is an 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.840 unhealthy approach? And do you think there's a need for 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.480 couples to have their own individual friends, their own individual 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.760 people that they have in their life or have you 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:22.520 seen at work? 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.879 I can't say many people come to therapy with that problem. Okay, 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.080 of spending two us time together. Okay, okay, it's the opposite. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.800 It's like you are, please go on a date, right, 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.560 It's so the opposite. But outside of that space, I 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.080 have seen that, and I think in some ways that 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:48.239 level of I was saying, meshment is probably healthy at 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.359 the beginning of your relationship when you're getting to know 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.720 each other and you like shut off the noise in 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.760 the world, and it's like it's so true, just like 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.560 this is so great. Yeah. After some time, I would 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.399 say about a year or so, maybe you know, you 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.880 start to come back to yourself. Yeah, and you start to, oh, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.000 my gosh, on Thursdays, I used to go to trivia. 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.560 What happened? I got to get back to my trivia people. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.719 You know, they miss you. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's Oh, 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.400 I've had my head in the sand with the love 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.600 of my life, let's have a girl's night. And you know, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.560 I think as we get older, hopeful with hopefully we 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.160 learn not to abandon our world when people come into 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.159 our lives and we really figure out a way to 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.560 incorporate them into it, even if that's like I just 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.240 I want to be with my man all the time. Yeah. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.760 Maybe maybe your friend third Wheels, Yeah exactly, it's like, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.200 now all of y'all can be together, like figuring out 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.159 some sort of way to keep those things going. But 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.160 maybe there are some couples who it's like they're like 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:04.280 this forever and ever. I don't know any in particular. Yeah, 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:05.440 but but. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.240 You said right at the beginning of the relationship, it 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.600 is really nice to have go into your own noble 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.720 well then be able to connect him that. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.199 Way, yeah, and come out of it. Yeah, yeah, and 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.919 then come out of it. Don't stay there, because what 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.840 tends to happen. Let's say that the couples I've known 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.920 where they have had that prolonged experience, one of them 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.520 starts to get tired of it, right, So it's it's 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.880 maybe the other person they want to keep it going, like, well, 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.159 we spend all our time together, and the other person 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.840 is like, I need a break, I need a break, 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.159 Like this is intense, Like I really really love you, 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:46.080 and I don't want to be with you all the time. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.159 And it's it's not anything about you, but it's really 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.359 like there's something about having your own time to be silent. Yeah, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:58.240 there's something about having your own space with people who 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.920 aren't your partner. Yes, those connections. 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.400 And the couples that you were saying on the other 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.639 side of the spectrum where they've lost that connections and 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.320 they're trying to rebuild that. What are some of the 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.440 things that you recommend that they do to help rebuild 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.760 that deeper connection that they're looking for. 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.040 Well, I think time together matters. And as we are 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.240 moving through life and we have work and we have 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.040 all these things, we get into the rhythm of I 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.959 go to my space, you go to your space doing 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.960 mundane things together, whether that's you know, having breakfast together 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.199 in the morning before you all leave for work, or 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.359 if you work from home, having breakfast together, maybe having 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.679 lunch a few times a week. Also, if you need 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.080 to run errands, take your partner with you. They can 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:46.080 go to ups. Yeah, everybody's welcome, you know, So take 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:47.359 them on some errands with you. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:52.560 And they also have some dates, plan schedule things that 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:53.240 you're doing together. 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.000 Schedule things not all on one partner. Yeah, both people 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.760 can figure out what a date could be. So I 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.680 think that time together is really important. You know, when 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.320 you look at the divorces that we see, like in media, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.640 it's like they were always traveling. They didn't have any 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:15.639 time together, right right, right. It's something about making the 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.440 connection important. And when we don't have people around, we 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.720 start to have a life without them. Yeah, like if 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:28.680 my partner is never here or we don't have any 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:33.840 ways to connect? What are we doing? What is this relationship? 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:40.760 I was talking to a friend who's an astronaut and 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:45.800 she was saying how I was asking her because you 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:50.600 travel so much. Yeah, like you're gone for months and 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:52.760 you know, she was I was saying, how do you 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.679 stay connected with your husband? And she said, we've talked 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.600 about the moon that I see is the moon that 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:02.879 you see? And when we stare at the moon, we 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.439 are seeing each other. And I said, Oh, are you 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:10.120 writing a rhymklm about that moon? Like we're connecting over 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.919 the moon. And that's Katie Kleman. I met her a 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.040 while ago and I was like, oh, my gosh, an 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.120 astronaut and she yeah. I was like, that's that's such 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.800 an interesting job to have and to have a long marriage. 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:25.640 It's like, how do you do that? And she's like, yeah, 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:30.320 I do it by you know, making the time I'm gone. 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.639 But we have other connection points. So I think having 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:38.280 something with a partner that's consistent and true for you 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:41.560 is really important. And I don't have a time remedy 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.600 for that, Like I can't say, oh, you should spend 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.480 six hours a week with your partner because it's you 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.520 know it's unique and it's up to the couple. Everybody's 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.479 needs are different. However, I do know that that unique 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:54.720 connection is important. 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:57.320 Yeah, And I feel like, well there's mundane things that 0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.840 you said of having breakfast together, going to ups to 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:02.760 t It's like it can either and even they're looking 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:05.040 at the moon and seeing in a different way. It 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:07.560 can either be a monotonous thing that you do every 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:11.440 single day and the same activity can have intense connection 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.240 or it can have intense disconnection. So that same activity, 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:19.240 depending on how you are choosing to interact with that person, 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.560 can completely shift. Are you choosing to be on your 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:24.119 phone or are you choosing to put it down for 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.199 that fifteen minutes where you guys are eating together so 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.040 you can think of questions and conversations that you can have. 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:32.520 Or you could be having breakfast every single day together 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:35.320 and not connect at all. And so I feel like 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.840 having those those moments, but having them where you're a 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:40.280 lot more conscious of how. 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:41.359 Those moments are being spent. 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.520 Then even if you just have those fifteen minutes a 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:46.639 day together, it can feel like you've reconnected every single 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:48.600 day for fifteen minutes, even if it's just for those 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:49.600 small moments. 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.200 Yeah, I think we need to do that in our 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:56.840 romantic relationships with our family with her, Yeah, and like 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:02.760 being intentional about curating the relationship experience I used to. 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:06.720 That reminds me of when me and Jay had started dating. 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:09.720 We I used to spend a lot of time in 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.399 my family. I still do, but even though we're far away. 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:14.919 But when we started dating, I would be like, just 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:16.800 come over and spend time with my family. Like that's 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:18.400 how I would tell him that we just hang out 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:19.760 and have dates together, but like, just come over with 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:21.800 my mom and dad, we're watching a movie. Come over 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.240 and spend time together. And I remember I'm saying to me, 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.080 he was like, as much as I love your family, 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.520 I'm not a let me just sit around with your 0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:30.800 family type of person. And at first I thought, that's 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:32.560 so rude, because why would you not want to spend 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:32.920 time with. 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:33.600 Me and my family. 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:36.680 And then because when it's your family, of course you 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:38.600 want to spend time with them, And then I remember 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:40.600 him saying, he goes, I will always want to spend 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:42.840 quality time with your family, but I don't want to 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.240 be someone who's spending unconscious time with them where I 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.040 just have to be there but not actually connect with them, 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:53.560 and so he's always He's taught me the idea of Okay, 0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:55.439 even if we don't have a lot of time, I 0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.560 want your if I'm spending time with your dad, I 0:25:57.600 --> 0:25:59.439 want it to be intentional, and I want it to 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:01.439 feel like we've actually connected, and I want it to 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:03.480 be off quality. I don't really want to just sit 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:04.840 there and watch a movie with him because I don't 0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.520 feel like I've connected to him. And so that for 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.119 me was really interesting because I used to spend a 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:11.879 lot of passive time with my family, and now I 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:14.399 try to make it so that I have individual connection 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:17.399 with each person or ask them about their you know, 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:20.320 life before I existed, or like question them and get 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:22.480 to know them a little bit deeper when I'm spending 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:26.119 time with them rather than it being passive interactions. And 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.680 it's really changed the quality of our relationship in that way. 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.159 Some more quality time and that quantity. 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:35.600 Time, yes, exactly, more intentional, like you said, spend thinking 0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:37.639 about how that time is being utilized. 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:42.800 Yeah, that's that's really important. You know, there is many 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:49.520 parenting experts will say, like fifteen strategic minutes with your children. Yeah, 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:53.920 just having like literally like I'm going to sit here 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:57.359 and play whatever you want to play. Yeah, Like that's 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:01.200 an important way to connect. A lot of times we think, 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:03.679 oh my gosh, I have to play Uno for hours 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:08.800 and hours and it's just like not necessarily, but sometime, 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.119 can it be fifteen minutes? Can it be twenty minutes? 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:14.879 Can it be thirty minutes of intentional time? Not just 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:18.480 like I'm packing your lunch and we're doing this, but like, 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:23.360 here is our time together to really focus on each other. 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:25.159 And can it be in a way that you know 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:28.800 that person likes to spend time together? Yeah. Yeah. With kids, 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.760 that's really important. They love to, you know, have their 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.240 way with you, teach, teach you stuff. I know my 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:36.040 daughter is like, do you know how to play so 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:36.320 and so? 0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:36.520 No? 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.560 I don't. And when she teaches me something, she never 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:41.480 stops talking about it. Now, what is your do with 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:44.919 I have to dine and twelve? Okay? The nine year 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:47.280 old is the one who's like, let me show you 0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:49.760 a thing and you have to look. 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.760 So yeah, my nephews like that. Tim always wants to 0:27:52.880 --> 0:27:55.000 like tell me about the things that he's learning. So 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.000 now I just let him to sit and listen and 0:27:57.040 --> 0:28:00.080 he just loves being the one that's teaching and sharing 0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.080 with other people rather than the other person doing a 0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:03.480 lot of the. 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:07.399 Test their whole world. Yeah exactly. When they get to 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.960 take that role of like listen to me, so true, 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:15.119 they feel like powerful. So I'm like, okay, how do 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.399 we do it? My daughter has tried to teach me 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:21.400 to knit. Wow, I can't get it, but I love 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:24.679 to watch you do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.439 love watching you. So I that second loop with the 0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:32.040 oh I can't get like you did that? You did it? Yeah, amazing. 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.760 With your blanket, you touch on attachment styles in your book, 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:38.920 and I was wondering how you feel that really impacts 0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:42.560 not just romantic relationships, but also with your children or 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:46.040 with your family, and how can we utilize them to 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:48.800 really deepen or maintain connections. 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.360 I think it's something to be aware of but not 0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:56.000 limited by. Okay, And sometimes with attachment styles, people will say, oh, 0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:59.920 I'm avoidant or I'm ancious, as if it's now this 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:03.840 personality trait, and we negate all of the things that 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.880 brought us to that attachment style. And sometimes we have 0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:10.200 to point the finger at the problem and not everyone 0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.960 because if you're saying, I'm giving in to having this 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:16.960 person who made me feel like I should never ask 0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:19.360 for help, so now I'm never doing it. I'm avoidant 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.160 of you know, people and them trying to get too 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:24.560 close to me because I won't. I won't be hurt again. 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:30.760 You are letting the past determine what your future can 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:34.680 be relationships, and you know in parenting you can do 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:37.680 that too. You can still be anxious and you know, 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:40.959 we call that helicopter parenting or always kicking on your 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:43.600 kids and you know, all these sorts of things. Or 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.880 you could be avoidant where you know your kids they 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:50.080 don't really have any support from you, where they feel 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:53.080 neglected because you're really not in tune with their life 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.880 and friendships. We could do it where you know, people 0:29:57.240 --> 0:30:00.760 text us and we never respond. You know, we're being avoidant. 0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:03.800 We're not following up with that person. We could be anxious. 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:05.800 Is she mad at me? Is she? You know? So 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:10.600 the disorganized, the anxious attachment, the avoidant, I think it 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:15.000 has a place. And also we can override all systems. Yeah, 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:17.960 we do not have to stay there. There are certain 0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:21.480 relationships where we just feel so secure because of who 0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:23.680 the person is and how they show up with us. 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:26.720 There are others where we might have some more avoidant 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:31.800 tendencies because of I don't know, maybe they represent something. 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:34.920 Maybe there's something there, because I think we've all had 0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.520 those relationships that kind of jar us where it's like 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:43.600 I don't typically get upset at this thing, but with 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:48.440 this person, you're triggering, you're ting me, you're making me 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:50.720 not want to talk, like what is it with this person? 0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:53.440 Or you know, sometimes when you have a deep connection 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.920 really fast with a dating companion, it's like, oh my gosh, 0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:00.280 like I am the person who takes like we to 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:05.760 like somebody overnight, you know. So so different relationships bring 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:07.640 out different parts of us, and we have to be 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:10.720 open to that. So we don't have to hitch our 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:14.920 wagon into one attachment style. I am this forever. We're 0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:19.360 capable of change. I do think the attachment styles relate 0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:23.959 to our dependency level. People who are avoidant or have 0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:27.800 more of a disorganized style tend to, you know, have 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:32.400 some unhealthy dependency. The avoidance you know, I meant the anxiety. 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:37.120 I think that also causes some in some cases, like codependency, 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:40.640 when you have that fearful, that anxious it causes some 0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:43.840 codependency and ameshment because you need those people to say 0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:47.760 close so you can feel more secure, like, oh, they 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:51.480 don't need if they don't leave, if they always do this, 0:31:51.680 --> 0:31:54.800 then then I feel a bit okay. But then it 0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.840 comes back up. And then with the avoidant, you know, 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:02.880 we're still having some dependency issues again on that opposite 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:07.720 spectrum of we're not letting people in, we're hyperdependent. Yeah. 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.000 I really like that you said it's not to be 0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:12.840 limited by them, because I think sometimes when you get 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:15.520 labeled as something, you think, well, that's just how I am, 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:19.080 But actually it could be a place where it helps 0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:20.920 you to recognize the areas that maybe you need to 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:24.040 improve in, or the areas that you need to adapt 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:26.920 and become more flexible in, rather than saying this is 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:28.560 just who I am when you come into the relationship, 0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:31.320 I'm an avoidant, I'm an anxious attachment. Okay, well that's 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:33.240 just how we're going to be then in this relationship. 0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:37.120 But to use that information to make the other person 0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:40.320 feel more comfortable, but also to use that information to 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:43.960 make yourself aware of it so you can become better 0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:47.240 with different scenarios within that relationship. 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:50.720 And in therapy, these are not and people are surprised. 0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:53.760 Sometimes these are not terms I would use with a client, right, 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.440 So if they use those terms, we'll explore it. But 0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.239 I don't say, oh, you sound like you have an 0:32:59.240 --> 0:33:04.920 anxious attached right. What I might say is it seems 0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:07.880 like with this person and the last person, when somebody 0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:11.240 starts to get close to you, you pull away. Let's 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:14.440 talk about why that happens, because it's really the behavior 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.880 or whatever any of these labels are. It's like, what 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:22.920 is the behavior we're working on. We're working on tolerating, 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:28.240 building your tolerance for closeness. Right, when someone likes you, 0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.280 it's okay to like them back, like you're a super 0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:35.080 cool person. Yeah, yeah, they should like you like it's 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:36.840 okay to like them back. You don't have to push 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:41.000 them away. So again, I think these things are great 0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:45.520 for information, but using them as a limitation for ourselves 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:49.600 and for other people, it doesn't necessarily get us to 0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:51.440 the space we want to be in. We can be 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:56.360 in a relationship with someone who's avoidant. You know, we 0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:58.520 might have a family member who's like that. Maybe your 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:03.000 brother like never answers your text or something. And there's 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:06.840 ways to explore that, to say, like, hey, when I'm 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:09.000 texting you, I just want to know you're okay. So 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:11.680 even if you just text me like okay, I'm really 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:14.400 just checking in because you know, I want to make 0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:16.879 sure you're okay and I need to know like little 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:19.680 bro is all right. Yeah, yeah, So send me something. 0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:20.279 You know. 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:24.120 That's a conversation. It's not a let me text him. 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:27.640 You're avoiding my calls, right, you know those sorts of things, 0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:30.759 like sometimes people aren't open to that because they have 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:32.000 this heavy label on them. 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:34.279 So what is the behavior and what do you say 0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.080 to people who or what advice would you give to 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:38.720 people who always feel like the expectations are not met 0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:45.120 or the disappointed constantly in relationships or yeah, with interactions? 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:48.080 Yeah, what are your expectations? That's really hard because I've 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.920 heard some Yeah, I think people should be able to 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:53.359 meet that, and I've heard some like that's a wild expectation. 0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:58.680 So I think it really depends. And I think if 0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:03.680 nobody ever ever can meet the expectation, that would make 0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:07.319 me question if my expectation is reasonable? Right? Am I 0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:11.360 communicating my expectation in a way that people can understand. 0:35:12.360 --> 0:35:14.919 Is the relationship in a place where I can even 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:18.240 have that expectation. One of the things I talk about 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:22.040 in the book is sometimes our expectations don't fit the 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:28.439 relationship we are. We're calling someone our best friend, when 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:33.919 in actuality they're just a friend. They're not best We're 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.680 calling a friend a friend, and this person might be 0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:41.520 an associate. What are your expectations of a neighbor? What 0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:45.360 is your expectations of a coworker, What are your expectations 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:48.799 of an associate? What are your expectations of work? You know, 0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:54.600 like having these different levels of interaction, it kind of 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.440 helps us not be disappointed. Yes, that is such a 0:35:57.440 --> 0:35:58.120 good point. 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:01.440 It made me think of Over summer, I ended up 0:36:01.480 --> 0:36:05.719 having this interaction with a friend who wanted to make 0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:08.520 who had asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding, 0:36:08.800 --> 0:36:11.600 and I think I said yes because in my mind 0:36:11.640 --> 0:36:13.800 I had never been a bridesmaid before, so I actually 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:16.000 didn't know what the expectations of being a bridesmaid for 0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:19.359 a friend looked like. And for her, she had very 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.279 high expectations of what her bridesmaid would be doing for 0:36:22.320 --> 0:36:24.920 her or how they would show up. And I think 0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:27.960 there was such a lack of realization of how close 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.440 the friendship was or how close we each thought we 0:36:31.440 --> 0:36:33.759 were to each other, and then the expectations that were 0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:38.520 put on that one interaction of being my bridesmaid, me 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:40.799 saying yeah, of course I'll do it, not realizing the 0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:43.320 weight that it held for her, and her not realizing 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:45.200 for me that I actually didn't think that it was 0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:46.759 much of It was a big deal, but not that 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.520 much of a big deal. And so the lack of 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:55.000 awareness of our yeah, our expectations of one another really 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:58.719 ended up making the relationship so much worse because we 0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:02.440 hadn't clarified those expectations and we put different weights to 0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.680 each other. We'd held each other in high regards in 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.080 some areas where maybe we weren't supposed to. 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.360 And so what you said really hit. 0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:13.400 Me because I was like, yeah, I think our expectations 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:16.960 would just have the right expectations of the level that 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:19.640 you're at with each person, and that makes such a 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:23.240 difference to make all the terrifying relationships. 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:28.600 Yeah, I think with dating sometimes even in our family relationships, 0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:31.400 I mean, we can't categorize them as like best sister 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:35.439 or association. Yes, but you know, I think just being 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:41.480 aware that all relationships aren't deeply connected. Some relationships are 0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:44.719 just connection, right, and that's it. Like we you know, 0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:47.320 we see each other on holidays and that's fine, and 0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:50.480 everybody everything doesn't have to be close. And if the 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:55.360 expectation is that you will be disappointed. 0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:58.200 Yes, I think that's such a good point that I 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:00.319 needed to hear, and I'm sure many other people needed 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.680 to hear. I feel like a lot of the time 0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:04.960 you expect when you have a friend that they're going 0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:08.120 to meet every part of what you require a friendship 0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:10.520 to be. They're going to fulfill that. It's like, I 0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:12.480 really feel like this person's going to be my best friend. 0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:14.000 And then as you grow up, you realize you just 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:17.480 have different people for different things, and each person holds 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:19.920 You can have a different type of expectation for each person, 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:23.319 but not all your expectations on one person. It's whether 0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:25.640 it's a friend, whether it's a partner, whether it's your mom. 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.640 It's really difficult for that person to hold that weight 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:31.799 of all your expectations and for you to expect that 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:32.960 person to have that for you. 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:36.200 And I think sometimes we have to, you know, in 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.000 align with what you're saying, we have to go to 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:42.000 the right person for the right thing. And you know, 0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:45.440 if I'm having a work issue, I'm an entrepreneur, I 0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:48.000 want to talk to my other entrepreneur friends. Yeah, I 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:49.920 don't want to talk to my corporate friends about it 0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:54.200 because their situations in life are different. It's not that 0:38:54.600 --> 0:38:58.200 I'm hiding information. It's just like, I think what we're 0:38:58.239 --> 0:39:03.360 talking about is you need to having people who work 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:05.960 with you and these sources of things. So I want 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:08.239 to talk to a person who I know have had 0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:12.000 similar experiences because I'm trying to work through mine. Yep. 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:15.719 So yeah, having different people in different ways is really 0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:19.600 important because I've been in conversations with people where someone 0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:21.560 is talking to you about a thing and it's like 0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:24.799 I don't even know what to say. Yeah, yeah, I'm 0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:27.800 not the right passion for this. This is I cannot 0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:31.480 help you with your taxi. I don't even know how 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:34.279 we got here of Have you looked at AG and 0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:39.759 R block, Yeah yeah it was. Yeah, I've been in 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:41.000 that situations for sure. 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:42.560 I'm like, it might not be the bright passion, but 0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:44.240 I can direct you towards the right person. 0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:46.920 Yeah. Like legal issues, I've had people be like, man, 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:49.839 what do you think about this custody of I don't know, 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:54.480 like a two three two, I don't know. I don't 0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:56.879 even know what the thing is like. Have you talked 0:39:56.880 --> 0:40:00.560 to an attorney? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm not the person 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:04.879 to help with custody arrangements, So yeah, I think it's 0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:09.040 in our interest sometimes to even redirect people when we 0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:13.400 find that, whether it's they need a level of expertise 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:17.560 or they're fixated on a topic. Because sometimes you know, 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:19.759 we want to be available, we want our friends to 0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:23.160 come to us in crisis. But if we notice, wow, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.319 you've talked about the same thing in the same way 0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:29.680 for six months, I don't feel like our conversations are 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:33.279 moving the needle. Have you thought about talking to maybe 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:37.799 a therapist, or have you mentioned this to your therapist 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:39.879 directing them to the right play. Yeah, because we don't 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.920 want to be the container for all that stuff. It 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:45.320 can become too heavy. Yeah, it could become too heavy, 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.640 And then that's when you start avoiding their cause you 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:49.600 don't want to be like, I am so tired of 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:52.359 hearing this thing. You don't want that. 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:55.920 No. Yeah, you talk about isolation and solitude, and I 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:58.919 really loved the difference that you shed between the two 0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:03.759 of you know, isolation being kind of avoiding things and 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:06.440 so being a place of power and strength. Would you 0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:09.360 eleperate on a little bit and when and how you 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:10.640 can differentiate between the two. 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.120 Yeah, I feel like isolation is going inward, but in 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:18.440 a dark space. I think it's it's a dark space 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:23.279 of you going inWORD, not an act of joy, not 0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:27.279 anything to rejuvenate, not to gain clarity, but just to 0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:30.880 be away from yep. And we have to be careful 0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:36.000 of that because when we see isolation, it intensifies loneliness. 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:41.040 It is you know a huge culprit of depression, of anxiety, 0:41:41.160 --> 0:41:46.040 of other psychological issues. When you think about isolation, that's 0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:49.640 what they use to punish people, right, sending them off 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:53.279 by themselves. Yep. And if you do that enough, you know, 0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:57.000 people start talking to themselves and making up stories and 0:41:57.160 --> 0:42:00.239 you know, all sorts of things. So it's a it 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.600 can be a punitive experience that we put on ourselves 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:12.120 versus solitude where we're exploring, we are recharging, we are 0:42:12.440 --> 0:42:17.279 energetically connecting in another way without people, but we are 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.960 still welcome, welcoming them in some sort of fashion. 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:26.120 That's such a beautiful way to differentiate the two. I 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.440 wanted to switch back to relationships a little bit because 0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:31.000 you talk about the one in your book and how 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:34.000 people talk about the one. There's that one person that 0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:36.239 you just fall in love with and that's the only 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:37.759 person that you're get in love for the rest of 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:40.120 your life. Give me your insight to that, because I 0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:42.320 really appreciated that part of your book. 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:48.719 Yeah, when I hear about the one, sometimes it's a 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:52.920 person who is not the best for us. And I 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:56.680 see people struggling to make something work that is not 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:00.960 working because they have identified this person and as having 0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:06.320 these special qualities, this connection that they've never had before. 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:11.319 There is some some deeper thing there, and I think 0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:15.319 there are people that you can be compatible with. And 0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:18.600 if you say that this person is the one, I 0:43:18.600 --> 0:43:21.640 think you will do everything in your power to try 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:24.520 to make it work. Even if it's not working. It 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.799 could be a bad relationship and you're like, but this 0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:31.719 is my person. They are not treating you like their person. Yep. 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.440 This is a one sided experience of you seeing something 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:39.480 special here and them not really reciprocating in that way. 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.520 I'm not saying the one doesn't exist. What I'm saying 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:48.239 is you have to question the experience of being with 0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:52.680 the one. If this is an unhealthy interaction. Maybe this 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:59.399 was one of the ones. This is one of the ones, 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:05.480 be another one. You got your ones mixed up? Yeah, 0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:09.440 you may need to keep counting to the ones because 0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:12.000 this one is not working. And that's okay for us 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:16.720 to really want, you know, this, this thing with a person, 0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:18.480 and it and not be the time. You know what 0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:22.160 I say to people sometimes when they're like, this is 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:25.520 the one, Maybe it is, but not right now. There 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:27.879 are tons of people who come back together when they're 0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:32.839 sixty five, yeah, and you're twenty two. Yeah, this might 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:38.680 be the one in retirement, but right now they're wreaking havoc. 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:40.640 They got to learn a lot of other stuff in 0:44:40.680 --> 0:44:43.160 the world before they can even come be the one. 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:45.560 This may not be the time. Maybe they are. I 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:48.480 don't know. I don't know what the universe has for you. 0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:54.480 But today this is the two, right, it's not the one. 0:44:55.200 --> 0:44:57.879 It's almost like you have to break down your own expectations. Yes, 0:44:58.239 --> 0:45:00.799 there's one thing about having expectations that other people, but 0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:03.320 when you've built up these expectations in your own mind, 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:07.040 you feel like you're disappointing yourself by not allowing, by 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:10.279 not by breaking that. It's it's breaking your expectations that 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:12.719 you had of that relationship, of the life that you 0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:15.680 were going to have, of all the little ideas that 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:16.720 you've created. 0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:18.839 In your mind, and then you have to reframe all 0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:19.120 of that. 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:19.879 Yeah. 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:23.680 Love can be blinding. Yeah, it can really be blinding, 0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:27.960 and we can like lose our minds in some of 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.439 the things. Because when you talk to people after they're 0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:33.560 out of relationships, it's like and I saw this, and 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:36.719 I saw that. Yeah, the clarity comes after I saw that. 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:42.719 It's it's it. It literally just like disrupts whatever our 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:45.959 natural flowy is. And we can really ignore a lot 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:49.279 of things that are not hidden. Yeah, so we have 0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:52.960 to be aware of that that maybe there's something here 0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:53.680 I'm not saying. 0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:57.279 Okay, So now I was how we want a healthy, wonderful, 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:01.960 not codependent relationship. Looks like a healthy dependency in a relationship. 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:04.160 How can you notice that day to day? What does 0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:05.440 it feel like for someone. 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:07.600 On a day to day basis? It is give and take. 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:13.319 It is healthy communication with people. So that might look 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:17.799 like if someone texts you, you read the text or 0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:19.919 you let them know, like, hey, you know, I saw 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.120 your text yesterday, couldn't get to it. But here's the answer. 0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:27.280 You know, you're recognizing that people matter in your life. 0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:32.040 You have several friends, and you have you know, maybe 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:36.240 some family and a partner, Like you have a robust system. 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:40.000 You are a villager. Not just in the village. You 0:46:40.040 --> 0:46:44.360 are helping as well. And I think communication skills matter. 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:48.160 There are so many relationships that end because we did 0:46:48.160 --> 0:46:52.320 not communicate properly. I was speaking with someone earlier about 0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:55.720 getting invice and just not responding to them. How often 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:59.319 that ends relationships when you could just communicate, Hey, I 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.319 see the date, I won't be available, so true, Like 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:06.839 that's it. Did you lose a friend because you never 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:09.960 said anything or you said you would go and you 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:12.760 didn't show up? Like that feels a way to people. 0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:16.120 So just saying like hey, I'm not going to be 0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:17.920 able to make it. I know it's the last minute, 0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.320 something came up, I have a stomach bug or whatever 0:47:20.400 --> 0:47:23.279 it is. You know, letting people know that things have 0:47:23.360 --> 0:47:28.440 shifted so that open communication is healthy dependency in your 0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:31.800 relationships and it's important. It makes all the difference. 0:47:31.960 --> 0:47:34.719 Yeah, and it sounds so simple, and yet we make 0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:36.680 it more complicated by not doing it. 0:47:36.800 --> 0:47:37.680 People don't do it. 0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:41.279 No, Yeah, And what about doing conflict? So you know, 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:43.760 obviously every relationship we're gonna have some sort of conflict. 0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:46.360 What is a healthy way to if you're trying to 0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:50.120 improve the way that you deal with conflict in a relationship. 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:52.640 What are some steps people can take if it gets 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:56.520 too heated, usually with arguments, and how can they reframe 0:47:56.560 --> 0:48:00.160 that and reconnect in a way that makes conflicts a 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:01.600 little bit easier to manage? 0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:05.799 So what I think about what is an argument? Sometimes 0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:08.040 we think if somebody doesn't agree with me, I'm having 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:13.759 an argument. Well, you're having a conversation. Is a voice elevated? 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:17.239 Is there, you know, some sort of rude back and 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.480 forth or is it just a conversation about a thing 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:22.799 you disagree about? So I think if we could reframe 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:26.239 the way we think about conflict and arguing, we can 0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:31.680 have it more. And one of the things, if we 0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.720 could talk about things sooner and not let them faster, 0:48:35.239 --> 0:48:38.120 we don't even have to get to the arguments. If 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:43.360 we could say the first or second time of something happening. Hey, 0:48:43.560 --> 0:48:45.799 you know, the other day I noticed this thing and 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.640 just have a conversation about that. With our calm voice, 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:53.600 we can prevent a lot of the conflict. And conflict 0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:56.680 is healthy for relationships. It's how we get to know people. 0:48:57.200 --> 0:49:02.000 It's how we start to understand how they operate, how 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.839 they think, what we need, things we need to work 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:09.000 on when we get upset, because sometimes we don't know 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:14.000 until we're in conflict. So a conflict free relationship isn't 0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:16.759 healthy because that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah, 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:21.759 so some conflict is good. That's good for the relationship. 0:49:21.800 --> 0:49:25.759 I was saying a couple once and one of the 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:30.040 folks said, gosh, you must get tired of us. Every 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:32.480 week we come here and we argue about something. And 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:36.640 I said, you always talk about something different though you're 0:49:36.680 --> 0:49:40.000 not arguing about the same thing. You're a couple who 0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:42.760 just moved in together, so a lot of this stuff 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:45.719 is like you learning how to live together. If you 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:49.759 argued about the same thing every week, I would be concerned. 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:53.880 This is an ongoing argument. I'm not concerned because it 0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:56.239 seems like we talk about it, you work through it, 0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.279 and something else comes up. This is a new situation 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:01.200 that's going to have in for a few weeks. That's 0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:03.080 why they say the first year of marriage is the 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:06.799 hardest because you're living with the person and you're discovering 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.920 they do not put a cap on their toothpaste. 0:50:09.120 --> 0:50:13.520 What I did disciple that person lives like this, right, 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:17.799 And so you're discovering all these They just take their 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:19.439 socks off, they just put them on the floor. 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:20.759 Who does that? 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:21.440 You know? 0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:24.839 And so every week it's something different, this person who 0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:27.759 was just like so perfect. It's like and they leave 0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:31.120 hair in the sink, you know, it's it's it's on 0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:34.719 and on and on. But you're learning how to live 0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:36.680 with a person. Okay, I'm living with someone else. Let 0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:38.439 me get my hair out the sink, let me throw 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:40.640 my socks in the basket. Or maybe your partner says, 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:42.279 I'm not even gonna talk about this. I'm gonna just 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:43.839 pick them up and throw them in a basket. Yeah, 0:50:44.040 --> 0:50:47.600 you're figuring things out. That's conflict and that's actually healthy. 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:50.399 What do you think is the main message you want 0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:53.040 people to really take away from your book? If there's 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.759 one thing that you want them to take away to 0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:58.120 enhunt their life in some way, what do you feel 0:50:58.120 --> 0:50:59.719 like that would be. 0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:03.399 Being with other peop people is important, and we have 0:51:03.480 --> 0:51:06.600 to figure out a way to hold our boundaries to 0:51:07.400 --> 0:51:12.840 being being healing mode to work on ourselves while working 0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:16.120 with other people and their stuff. And I'm not talking 0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:20.520 about toxic stuff. I don't want. I don't want people 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:23.080 to say, oh yeah, accept abuse. No, I'm not talking 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:26.360 about abuse, neglect and those sorts of things. I'm talking 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:32.520 about somebody being routine annoying in a relationship. Relationships should 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:39.560 annoy us. Sometimes they should cause us to have, you know, 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:44.000 a moment where it's inconvenient. Things happen for people and 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.880 things happen for us, and so just having the flexibility 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:53.279 around being in relationships is important right now. Thank you. 0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:56.279 That's so wonderful, Nata, thank you so much for coming on. 0:51:56.920 --> 0:51:58.400 This is such a wonderful conversation. 0:51:58.480 --> 0:52:00.480 I think it's going to hopefully help so many people 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:05.960 reconnect and create deeper, more meaningful relationships. Everybody, go out 0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:09.880 there and grab the balancing act creating healthy dependency and 0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:14.560 connection without losing yourself. Another best selling book, I'm sure 0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:15.960 from Nedra. 0:52:16.120 --> 0:52:17.840 Thank you again. Thanks so wonderful.