Speaker 1: What's behind Beyonce A whole lot of help being self made?
Speaker 1: It sounds really strong. We are starting to see some
Speaker 1: people who have been highly functioning on their own sort
Speaker 1: of crash.
Speaker 2: Nedra is a licensed therapist with a community of over
Speaker 2: two million on Instagram. She reaches the global audience each
Speaker 2: week through her podcast You Need to Hear This. In
Speaker 2: her newest book, The Balancing Act, Nedra offers a roadmap
Speaker 2: to creating relationships that on a both dependency and individuality.
Speaker 2: Tell me what a healthy, wonderful, not codependent relationship looks like.
Speaker 1: We're not very flexible with people. When people have a limitation,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean gosh, I got it in the relationship
Speaker 1: with this person. A conflict free relationship isn't healthy because
Speaker 1: that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah, so some
Speaker 1: conflict is good for the relationship. You have to question
Speaker 1: the experience of being with the one. Maybe this was
Speaker 1: one of the ones. There may be another one. You
Speaker 1: got your ones mixed up. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: universe has for you, but today this is the two
Speaker 1: right the one.
Speaker 2: I'm radi wkah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
Speaker 2: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
Speaker 2: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
Speaker 2: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Noda,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. I deeply enjoyed
Speaker 2: reading your book. I felt like I learned so much
Speaker 2: from it. So first I just want to say thank
Speaker 2: you for being here and blessing us with your presence.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. This is this is going
Speaker 1: to be good. I feel the calmness entering my spirit.
Speaker 1: You actually really have that energy.
Speaker 2: As soon as you walked in and I was in
Speaker 2: your sphere of energy, I was like, Wow, she's a
Speaker 2: very calm person and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So thanks for bringing that here. You're welcome. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you just to start off.
Speaker 2: So I know you've already had two incredible books that
Speaker 2: have come out, both on different topics. What brought you
Speaker 2: to write this book and why this topic in particular.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, what I'm noticing now with some of my
Speaker 1: clients is more disconnection in their relationships. And I think
Speaker 1: when we seek boundaries and we seek healing, and we
Speaker 1: seek all these things, it needs to be in tandem
Speaker 1: with connection. And so it's very important to me to say, hey,
Speaker 1: we could be dependent in healthy ways. We don't have
Speaker 1: to erase everything. We don't have to reject all things
Speaker 1: or have these you know, strong rules about stuff in
Speaker 1: every situation. We have to be flexible because being connected
Speaker 1: leads to better mental health, longer life span, all sorts
Speaker 1: of things. But it's positive for us to have these connections.
Speaker 1: And I see that we're losing them.
Speaker 2: And obviously you've had you've had many clients, and you've
Speaker 2: done this for such a long time. What are you
Speaker 2: noticing or what past things are you noticing that people
Speaker 2: are having that is causing this disconnection.
Speaker 1: I think people are more self aware and maybe a
Speaker 1: little less sometimes other tolerating. Okay, right, so I'm more
Speaker 1: self aware and the things that people won't change or
Speaker 1: haven't change is annoying. Now, there are some things that
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree are toxic, unhealthy, abusive,
Speaker 1: But then there are other things where it's like you
Speaker 1: may have a friend where you need to just have
Speaker 1: a conversation with them and say, hey, you can't call
Speaker 1: me seven times today, I'm not available. It doesn't mean
Speaker 1: the relationship needs to end or you need to confront them.
Speaker 1: But it's just like I'm not available that much. I
Speaker 1: have a busy work schedule. I will, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: chat with you when I'm done, but you know, reassuring people,
Speaker 1: letting them know that you want to be in a
Speaker 1: relationship and it's still important to you. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes it's really difficult to know whether
Speaker 2: the boundary between being self aware and then being selfish,
Speaker 2: like being so self obsessed in not self obsessed in
Speaker 2: an extiboy, but being so self aware that it kind
Speaker 2: of turns into self obsession where you're being so protective,
Speaker 2: so rigid with the way that you want to live
Speaker 2: your life, and then you have like this lack of
Speaker 2: consideration maybe for others, because I feel like in society
Speaker 2: we're told now it's so much about self care, self regulation,
Speaker 2: self self self and I think that sometimes can stop
Speaker 2: us from connecting with people and actually taking other people
Speaker 2: into consideration.
Speaker 1: As much agreed. Tonight, I have a friend date with
Speaker 1: a friend who just happens to be in work from Charlotte.
Speaker 1: She's here working and she was like, well, let me
Speaker 1: know what hotel you're saying it so I could get
Speaker 1: a room. I said, you don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: We can share a room.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was like really. I was like, yeah, old school
Speaker 1: sleepover with Yeah. Now she was like okay, yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we live in a society now it's like separate room
Speaker 1: more division, can't share. Oh my gosh, what if she
Speaker 1: wants the room too warm? I'm like, will work it out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: being a little bit more flexible than like, I will
Speaker 1: work it out, like maybe I'll put on an extra
Speaker 1: shirt or something like it a little chillier. But I
Speaker 1: really want to spend this time with you, and I
Speaker 1: think if we go to our separate rooms, that's less
Speaker 1: time that we get to spend together. Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2: That's such a nice way to think about it actually,
Speaker 2: especially in situations where you don't feel comfortable, like sometimes
Speaker 2: putting yourself out of your comfort zone when it comes
Speaker 2: to building connections is how you can create better relationships.
Speaker 2: And I find with I mean speaking for myself, when
Speaker 2: I moved countries and I came here, I noticed I
Speaker 2: had to put myself into uncomfortable communication and uncomfortable scenarios
Speaker 2: to actually build relationships with people. Otherwise, if I kept
Speaker 2: myself to myself, I would have probably felt really lonely
Speaker 2: when I was here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you have to go the distance
Speaker 1: in those situations. It's like, Okay, I had lunch with
Speaker 1: that person, it was pretty cool, and let's follow up. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: abandon it because sometimes we'll start that connection, will notice
Speaker 1: that spark, and then we just like let it fizzle totally.
Speaker 1: You have to keep it going, Yeah, you really do.
Speaker 2: What are some practical tools that you find if people
Speaker 2: are feeling a little bit lonely but also find themselves
Speaker 2: being someone who doesn't connect as easily. What are some
Speaker 2: easy tips of tools that people can use to get
Speaker 2: themselves to a place but they are able to connect better.
Speaker 1: Who's already in your orbit? Sometimes we're not noticing who
Speaker 1: has been saying do you need any help? You want
Speaker 1: to go out for coffee? Yeah, yeah, let's get it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes really follow up on that. Maybe there's someone already
Speaker 1: there and you don't need to seek out any new people.
Speaker 1: Are there some old people around? Because sometimes we have
Speaker 1: lost some connections that we just need to send that
Speaker 1: text or we need to say, hey, it's been a while,
Speaker 1: Yeah I'd love to reconnect with you. So meeting the
Speaker 1: new people is great and also who's already here. What
Speaker 1: do I need to nurture? What can can flourish with
Speaker 1: a little bit of care and love and attention. From
Speaker 1: my perspective.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting because these days, when you do follow
Speaker 2: up with people, when you say let's get coffee and
Speaker 2: you actually message them, I noticed, it's such almost like
Speaker 2: a shock that that actually happened, that this person actually
Speaker 2: followed up. And my mom has that characteristic of she
Speaker 2: if she says she's going to do something, or she's
Speaker 2: going to make a call for you, or she's gonna
Speaker 2: message you, she will absolutely do it, like she will
Speaker 2: go that extra mile for you. But I've noticed in
Speaker 2: our generation it's so much harder for people to actually
Speaker 2: do that, yeah, to follow through, and when they do,
Speaker 2: it's like a surprise, Oh, well, that person actually messaged me.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes because we are so busy, we have
Speaker 1: to remember it's not that people don't want to be
Speaker 1: in community with us. Sometimes they are busy. We are busy,
Speaker 1: and these things just fall out if we don't keep
Speaker 1: them going. Yeah, and also with relationships, I think it's
Speaker 1: really important that we give people a strategic thing they
Speaker 1: can do. So if I want to connect with you.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, are you available on the thirteenth at
Speaker 1: five o'clock for dinner?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Finish the finish the sentence right right. You want to
Speaker 1: connect because sometimes people forget that, but sometimes people want
Speaker 1: to connect and it's all of this other noise in
Speaker 1: life and we can't have those connections. But giving them
Speaker 1: something strategic and solid, like can we do this on
Speaker 1: this date at this time. It works very well. If
Speaker 1: I text a friend and I say like, hey, want
Speaker 1: to grab dinner? Usually I follow up with a RESI invite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you add yourself to the it's done. And I have
Speaker 1: one friend she's like, thank you girl. You are always yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am, but it's only because I
Speaker 1: don't want to have ten text messages about doing the
Speaker 1: thing and then we never do the thing. It's so true,
Speaker 1: I'm saying any of them, it's like we've been talking
Speaker 1: about connecting for a very long time. We haven't actually
Speaker 1: scheduled anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. My husband's really good at that. Actually
Speaker 2: I'm getting better at It's something I'm working on for sure.
Speaker 2: In your book, you talk about a dependency spectrum. Could
Speaker 2: you share a little bit more about that and educate
Speaker 2: us on what that looks like.
Speaker 1: And is everyone on that spectrum? Yes, everybody is on
Speaker 1: the dependency spectrum. I would say on the unhealthy end
Speaker 1: of it, you see more codependency, and you see more enmeshment.
Speaker 1: And then on the healthier and would you would see
Speaker 1: where you can exist in relationships and give and take
Speaker 1: and rejuvenate. But I would say, if we look at
Speaker 1: the spectrum like this, one end is codependency enmeshment, than
Speaker 1: this other end is counterdependency or hyper independence, where you
Speaker 1: feel this need to do things without people, where you're
Speaker 1: more avoidant of relationships and connection, or you have this
Speaker 1: do it yourself approach. And then in the middle, you know,
Speaker 1: right there in the middle, that's where we can invite
Speaker 1: people in. We can let them know what our needs are.
Speaker 1: We can place our boundaries gently, we can have tough conversations.
Speaker 1: We can be flexible. We allow other people to be flexible.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the big things I'm noticing now
Speaker 1: is we're not very flexible with people. Sometimes when people
Speaker 1: have a limitation, it doesn't mean gosh, I got to
Speaker 1: end the relationship with this person because they don't want
Speaker 1: to start doing yoga with me, it's like, that's not
Speaker 1: your yoga friend. Yeah, yeah, you have to find new people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might be somebody who's already going to the classes
Speaker 1: or someone you ask in another setting, but it's not
Speaker 1: this person, and you can still have a relationship with them.
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes we're like, no, this person has
Speaker 1: if you're a friend, it means this, this, this, and this.
Speaker 1: When we can be flexible and say, well, huh, okay,
Speaker 1: you're not a friend for that.
Speaker 2: And the spectrum that you mentioned, you said one side
Speaker 2: of it as could you elaborate on that littabit and
Speaker 2: give some signs and like symptoms of what it might
Speaker 2: look like if you are in that kind of relationship.
Speaker 1: Yes, So one side I would say is enmeshment, which
Speaker 1: is having a I don't want to say just close connection,
Speaker 1: but one where you do everything together, you think alike,
Speaker 1: you're unable to have any separation. Sometimes this happens in families,
Speaker 1: and it's fine until one person wants something different. It's
Speaker 1: fine until maybe somebody else comes into that system and
Speaker 1: they're like, what is happening here? Why are you sleeping
Speaker 1: in the bed with your mom?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Come on, he're my partner. Don't do this, so you know,
Speaker 1: they start to notice, like these things are weird. You're
Speaker 1: talking to your mom like twenty times a day, like
Speaker 1: that's you know, and if that's okay for you, and
Speaker 1: it's fine, it's really not a problem, right because you
Speaker 1: all are mutually agreeing to this, But it becomes problematic
Speaker 1: when one person wants to break out of that sort
Speaker 1: of sins. And then I would say, pretty much akin
Speaker 1: to that is codependency, where we are helping someone who
Speaker 1: has some unhealthy thing along to their detriment. We're doing
Speaker 1: it to feel this need we have to be wanted,
Speaker 1: to be needed, to have some space, and sometimes we
Speaker 1: are you know, I think with codependency, we are showing
Speaker 1: that I love this person and I want to help them.
Speaker 1: The challenge is it's just not helpful, right, you know,
Speaker 1: you can't get this person to do something in their
Speaker 1: life that they're not interested in, no matter what their
Speaker 1: potential is, no matter you know what you give them.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people have to do those things on their own.
Speaker 1: So the codependency is like I'm going to save them,
Speaker 1: and then the ameshment is like I have to be
Speaker 1: with them all the time, and then you know, the
Speaker 1: opposite end of that, we have counterdependency where people have
Speaker 1: you know, based on you know, maybe some trauma in
Speaker 1: a relationlationship, or some family upbringing stuff that I need
Speaker 1: to do things on my own. Relationships are a place
Speaker 1: of pain. If people get too close, they can hurt me.
Speaker 1: And so with that you don't have any people.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's also trying to prove yourself right,
Speaker 2: like that I can do things by myself. Sometimes it
Speaker 2: can be you feel like people have done too much
Speaker 2: for you in your life, and then you get to
Speaker 2: an age where you're saying, no, no, I want to
Speaker 2: prove that I can do things by myself. And in
Speaker 2: your book you talk about being self made, and I
Speaker 2: really love the point that you made in that about
Speaker 2: how no one's actually have a self made no, like,
Speaker 2: you never do anything by yourself.
Speaker 1: It made me a cup of tea. Yeah this wasn't
Speaker 1: self made. Somebody made the tea. Yeah, you know, so
Speaker 1: is that even a real thing? You know, we rely
Speaker 1: on people, whether we see them or we don't. We
Speaker 1: are relying on other people for our goods, for our living.
Speaker 1: You know, your power, your your gas, all of those
Speaker 1: things come from other places in the world. Outside yourself.
Speaker 1: I think the thing with being self made it sounds
Speaker 1: really strong, Yeah, exactly. Sound was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm like this fearless person. I don't need any people.
Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate. Actually, it's very sad. You know. I
Speaker 1: do think we get less needy with time. When you
Speaker 1: think of an infant, like they're one hundred percent needy. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't even hold your head up. It's like you
Speaker 1: need help with everything. Yeah. And then you you know,
Speaker 1: you get a little older and you can do these things,
Speaker 1: but you still need people in some capacity. You never
Speaker 1: grow out of needing, No, you really don't.
Speaker 2: And I think, and I always I loved what you
Speaker 2: said in your book about we're supposed to be needy,
Speaker 2: Like we as humans are meant to be needy. We're
Speaker 2: supposed to need other people. And the moment you end
Speaker 2: up thinking that it's just you, you not only put yourself up,
Speaker 2: you know, you disadvantage yourself because you're not allowing the
Speaker 2: kind of the connections. And the more the hands that
Speaker 2: you can hold, the more you have the capability of doing,
Speaker 2: and the more people that you allow into your life,
Speaker 2: the more opportunities and experiences that you get. And so
Speaker 2: I feel like, if you constantly think that I'm going
Speaker 2: to do this by myself, I can do it by myself.
Speaker 1: I will and I don't.
Speaker 2: Need anyone to help me. You're almost putting yourself at
Speaker 2: such a disadvantage. I feel like for a lot of women,
Speaker 2: especially because of how society has become, we're always wanting
Speaker 2: to prove ourselves, to show that we don't need other people,
Speaker 2: like that we can do things by ourselves, because I mean,
Speaker 2: I've noticed that a lot of my friends and even
Speaker 2: in myself, I went through a phrase of saying, I
Speaker 2: don't need anyone to pick.
Speaker 1: Up my bags.
Speaker 2: I don't need anyone to you know, if I'm scared
Speaker 2: at night of walking somewhere, I don't actually need anyone
Speaker 2: to take me there because I am capable of going
Speaker 2: by myself. And I think there's this constant proving of
Speaker 2: being a strong independent woman as being a positive and
Speaker 2: it being such a big thing. But it's also okay
Speaker 2: to lean into your feminine feel like you do need
Speaker 2: other people to support you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think we are starting to see some
Speaker 1: people who have been highly functioning on their own sort
Speaker 1: of crash, yeah, because it is a lot to always
Speaker 1: be the responsible party, to be the person who has
Speaker 1: everyone coming to them, to be, you know, the strong one,
Speaker 1: and you don't have anywhere to go. Like that's I
Speaker 1: hope it's you know, trending down. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and that we are learning that it's it's okay to
Speaker 1: embrace people, like to have more people to help you
Speaker 1: with things. Yeah, that's that's how you go further. You know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we look at people in our fields and we
Speaker 1: admire them, and it's like, what's behind Beyonce? A whole
Speaker 1: lot of help? Yeah, a whole lot of help. I mean,
Speaker 1: just the decisions that she doesn't have to make because
Speaker 1: other people are helping her helps her to be this superstar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she couldn't do all this stuff like that's not possible.
Speaker 1: So we have to embrace to be a better version
Speaker 1: of ourselves. We too need to ask for help, and
Speaker 1: sometimes if we can't pay for the help. Some of
Speaker 1: us are fortunate enough to have housekeepers or to have
Speaker 1: a babysitting service, or laundry services or all these things,
Speaker 1: we have to think about who in our community could help.
Speaker 1: Can I go over to my friend's house once a
Speaker 1: week for dinner and she comes over to mind that
Speaker 1: takes me having a cook out of the loop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's helpful. That's enough. Yeah, we have to get creative
Speaker 1: around what being in connection and in partnerships with others
Speaker 1: in this life really looks like, Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to what you were saying
Speaker 2: about codependency, because you know, I feel like there's two
Speaker 2: different types of couples that I've.
Speaker 1: Been seeing a lot.
Speaker 2: Either a couple who they get together and then they
Speaker 2: literally do everything together. They rely on each other so
Speaker 2: much they become really insular where sometimes their friends don't
Speaker 2: even matter, like everything ends up being them two together
Speaker 2: doing everything together. Do you think that that is an
Speaker 2: unhealthy approach? And do you think there's a need for
Speaker 2: couples to have their own individual friends, their own individual
Speaker 2: people that they have in their life or have you
Speaker 2: seen at work?
Speaker 1: I can't say many people come to therapy with that problem. Okay,
Speaker 1: of spending two us time together. Okay, okay, it's the opposite.
Speaker 1: It's like you are, please go on a date, right,
Speaker 1: It's so the opposite. But outside of that space, I
Speaker 1: have seen that, and I think in some ways that
Speaker 1: level of I was saying, meshment is probably healthy at
Speaker 1: the beginning of your relationship when you're getting to know
Speaker 1: each other and you like shut off the noise in
Speaker 1: the world, and it's like it's so true, just like
Speaker 1: this is so great. Yeah. After some time, I would
Speaker 1: say about a year or so, maybe you know, you
Speaker 1: start to come back to yourself. Yeah, and you start to, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, on Thursdays, I used to go to trivia.
Speaker 1: What happened? I got to get back to my trivia people.
Speaker 1: You know, they miss you. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's Oh,
Speaker 1: I've had my head in the sand with the love
Speaker 1: of my life, let's have a girl's night. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think as we get older, hopeful with hopefully we
Speaker 1: learn not to abandon our world when people come into
Speaker 1: our lives and we really figure out a way to
Speaker 1: incorporate them into it, even if that's like I just
Speaker 1: I want to be with my man all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe your friend third Wheels, Yeah exactly, it's like,
Speaker 1: now all of y'all can be together, like figuring out
Speaker 1: some sort of way to keep those things going. But
Speaker 1: maybe there are some couples who it's like they're like
Speaker 1: this forever and ever. I don't know any in particular. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but.
Speaker 2: You said right at the beginning of the relationship, it
Speaker 2: is really nice to have go into your own noble
Speaker 2: well then be able to connect him that.
Speaker 1: Way, yeah, and come out of it. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then come out of it. Don't stay there, because what
Speaker 1: tends to happen. Let's say that the couples I've known
Speaker 1: where they have had that prolonged experience, one of them
Speaker 1: starts to get tired of it, right, So it's it's
Speaker 1: maybe the other person they want to keep it going, like, well,
Speaker 1: we spend all our time together, and the other person
Speaker 1: is like, I need a break, I need a break,
Speaker 1: Like this is intense, Like I really really love you,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be with you all the time.
Speaker 1: And it's it's not anything about you, but it's really
Speaker 1: like there's something about having your own time to be silent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's something about having your own space with people who
Speaker 1: aren't your partner. Yes, those connections.
Speaker 2: And the couples that you were saying on the other
Speaker 2: side of the spectrum where they've lost that connections and
Speaker 2: they're trying to rebuild that. What are some of the
Speaker 2: things that you recommend that they do to help rebuild
Speaker 2: that deeper connection that they're looking for.
Speaker 1: Well, I think time together matters. And as we are
Speaker 1: moving through life and we have work and we have
Speaker 1: all these things, we get into the rhythm of I
Speaker 1: go to my space, you go to your space doing
Speaker 1: mundane things together, whether that's you know, having breakfast together
Speaker 1: in the morning before you all leave for work, or
Speaker 1: if you work from home, having breakfast together, maybe having
Speaker 1: lunch a few times a week. Also, if you need
Speaker 1: to run errands, take your partner with you. They can
Speaker 1: go to ups. Yeah, everybody's welcome, you know, So take
Speaker 1: them on some errands with you.
Speaker 2: And they also have some dates, plan schedule things that
Speaker 2: you're doing together.
Speaker 1: Schedule things not all on one partner. Yeah, both people
Speaker 1: can figure out what a date could be. So I
Speaker 1: think that time together is really important. You know, when
Speaker 1: you look at the divorces that we see, like in media,
Speaker 1: it's like they were always traveling. They didn't have any
Speaker 1: time together, right right, right. It's something about making the
Speaker 1: connection important. And when we don't have people around, we
Speaker 1: start to have a life without them. Yeah, like if
Speaker 1: my partner is never here or we don't have any
Speaker 1: ways to connect? What are we doing? What is this relationship?
Speaker 1: I was talking to a friend who's an astronaut and
Speaker 1: she was saying how I was asking her because you
Speaker 1: travel so much. Yeah, like you're gone for months and
Speaker 1: you know, she was I was saying, how do you
Speaker 1: stay connected with your husband? And she said, we've talked
Speaker 1: about the moon that I see is the moon that
Speaker 1: you see? And when we stare at the moon, we
Speaker 1: are seeing each other. And I said, Oh, are you
Speaker 1: writing a rhymklm about that moon? Like we're connecting over
Speaker 1: the moon. And that's Katie Kleman. I met her a
Speaker 1: while ago and I was like, oh, my gosh, an
Speaker 1: astronaut and she yeah. I was like, that's that's such
Speaker 1: an interesting job to have and to have a long marriage.
Speaker 1: It's like, how do you do that? And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do it by you know, making the time I'm gone.
Speaker 1: But we have other connection points. So I think having
Speaker 1: something with a partner that's consistent and true for you
Speaker 1: is really important. And I don't have a time remedy
Speaker 1: for that, Like I can't say, oh, you should spend
Speaker 1: six hours a week with your partner because it's you
Speaker 1: know it's unique and it's up to the couple. Everybody's
Speaker 1: needs are different. However, I do know that that unique
Speaker 1: connection is important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like, well there's mundane things that
Speaker 2: you said of having breakfast together, going to ups to
Speaker 2: t It's like it can either and even they're looking
Speaker 2: at the moon and seeing in a different way. It
Speaker 2: can either be a monotonous thing that you do every
Speaker 2: single day and the same activity can have intense connection
Speaker 2: or it can have intense disconnection. So that same activity,
Speaker 2: depending on how you are choosing to interact with that person,
Speaker 2: can completely shift. Are you choosing to be on your
Speaker 2: phone or are you choosing to put it down for
Speaker 2: that fifteen minutes where you guys are eating together so
Speaker 2: you can think of questions and conversations that you can have.
Speaker 2: Or you could be having breakfast every single day together
Speaker 2: and not connect at all. And so I feel like
Speaker 2: having those those moments, but having them where you're a
Speaker 2: lot more conscious of how.
Speaker 1: Those moments are being spent.
Speaker 2: Then even if you just have those fifteen minutes a
Speaker 2: day together, it can feel like you've reconnected every single
Speaker 2: day for fifteen minutes, even if it's just for those
Speaker 2: small moments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we need to do that in our
Speaker 1: romantic relationships with our family with her, Yeah, and like
Speaker 1: being intentional about curating the relationship experience I used to.
Speaker 2: That reminds me of when me and Jay had started dating.
Speaker 2: We I used to spend a lot of time in
Speaker 2: my family. I still do, but even though we're far away.
Speaker 2: But when we started dating, I would be like, just
Speaker 2: come over and spend time with my family. Like that's
Speaker 2: how I would tell him that we just hang out
Speaker 2: and have dates together, but like, just come over with
Speaker 2: my mom and dad, we're watching a movie. Come over
Speaker 2: and spend time together. And I remember I'm saying to me,
Speaker 2: he was like, as much as I love your family,
Speaker 2: I'm not a let me just sit around with your
Speaker 2: family type of person. And at first I thought, that's
Speaker 2: so rude, because why would you not want to spend
Speaker 2: time with.
Speaker 1: Me and my family.
Speaker 2: And then because when it's your family, of course you
Speaker 2: want to spend time with them, And then I remember
Speaker 2: him saying, he goes, I will always want to spend
Speaker 2: quality time with your family, but I don't want to
Speaker 2: be someone who's spending unconscious time with them where I
Speaker 2: just have to be there but not actually connect with them,
Speaker 2: and so he's always He's taught me the idea of Okay,
Speaker 2: even if we don't have a lot of time, I
Speaker 2: want your if I'm spending time with your dad, I
Speaker 2: want it to be intentional, and I want it to
Speaker 2: feel like we've actually connected, and I want it to
Speaker 2: be off quality. I don't really want to just sit
Speaker 2: there and watch a movie with him because I don't
Speaker 2: feel like I've connected to him. And so that for
Speaker 2: me was really interesting because I used to spend a
Speaker 2: lot of passive time with my family, and now I
Speaker 2: try to make it so that I have individual connection
Speaker 2: with each person or ask them about their you know,
Speaker 2: life before I existed, or like question them and get
Speaker 2: to know them a little bit deeper when I'm spending
Speaker 2: time with them rather than it being passive interactions. And
Speaker 2: it's really changed the quality of our relationship in that way.
Speaker 1: Some more quality time and that quantity.
Speaker 2: Time, yes, exactly, more intentional, like you said, spend thinking
Speaker 2: about how that time is being utilized.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's really important. You know, there is many
Speaker 1: parenting experts will say, like fifteen strategic minutes with your children. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just having like literally like I'm going to sit here
Speaker 1: and play whatever you want to play. Yeah, Like that's
Speaker 1: an important way to connect. A lot of times we think,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have to play Uno for hours
Speaker 1: and hours and it's just like not necessarily, but sometime,
Speaker 1: can it be fifteen minutes? Can it be twenty minutes?
Speaker 1: Can it be thirty minutes of intentional time? Not just
Speaker 1: like I'm packing your lunch and we're doing this, but like,
Speaker 1: here is our time together to really focus on each other.
Speaker 1: And can it be in a way that you know
Speaker 1: that person likes to spend time together? Yeah. Yeah. With kids,
Speaker 1: that's really important. They love to, you know, have their
Speaker 1: way with you, teach, teach you stuff. I know my
Speaker 1: daughter is like, do you know how to play so
Speaker 1: and so?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I don't. And when she teaches me something, she never
Speaker 1: stops talking about it. Now, what is your do with
Speaker 1: I have to dine and twelve? Okay? The nine year
Speaker 1: old is the one who's like, let me show you
Speaker 1: a thing and you have to look.
Speaker 2: So yeah, my nephews like that. Tim always wants to
Speaker 2: like tell me about the things that he's learning. So
Speaker 2: now I just let him to sit and listen and
Speaker 2: he just loves being the one that's teaching and sharing
Speaker 2: with other people rather than the other person doing a
Speaker 2: lot of the.
Speaker 1: Test their whole world. Yeah exactly. When they get to
Speaker 1: take that role of like listen to me, so true,
Speaker 1: they feel like powerful. So I'm like, okay, how do
Speaker 1: we do it? My daughter has tried to teach me
Speaker 1: to knit. Wow, I can't get it, but I love
Speaker 1: to watch you do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I
Speaker 1: love watching you. So I that second loop with the
Speaker 1: oh I can't get like you did that? You did it? Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2: With your blanket, you touch on attachment styles in your book,
Speaker 2: and I was wondering how you feel that really impacts
Speaker 2: not just romantic relationships, but also with your children or
Speaker 2: with your family, and how can we utilize them to
Speaker 2: really deepen or maintain connections.
Speaker 1: I think it's something to be aware of but not
Speaker 1: limited by. Okay, And sometimes with attachment styles, people will say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm avoidant or I'm ancious, as if it's now this
Speaker 1: personality trait, and we negate all of the things that
Speaker 1: brought us to that attachment style. And sometimes we have
Speaker 1: to point the finger at the problem and not everyone
Speaker 1: because if you're saying, I'm giving in to having this
Speaker 1: person who made me feel like I should never ask
Speaker 1: for help, so now I'm never doing it. I'm avoidant
Speaker 1: of you know, people and them trying to get too
Speaker 1: close to me because I won't. I won't be hurt again.
Speaker 1: You are letting the past determine what your future can
Speaker 1: be relationships, and you know in parenting you can do
Speaker 1: that too. You can still be anxious and you know,
Speaker 1: we call that helicopter parenting or always kicking on your
Speaker 1: kids and you know, all these sorts of things. Or
Speaker 1: you could be avoidant where you know your kids they
Speaker 1: don't really have any support from you, where they feel
Speaker 1: neglected because you're really not in tune with their life
Speaker 1: and friendships. We could do it where you know, people
Speaker 1: text us and we never respond. You know, we're being avoidant.
Speaker 1: We're not following up with that person. We could be anxious.
Speaker 1: Is she mad at me? Is she? You know? So
Speaker 1: the disorganized, the anxious attachment, the avoidant, I think it
Speaker 1: has a place. And also we can override all systems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do not have to stay there. There are certain
Speaker 1: relationships where we just feel so secure because of who
Speaker 1: the person is and how they show up with us.
Speaker 1: There are others where we might have some more avoidant
Speaker 1: tendencies because of I don't know, maybe they represent something.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something there, because I think we've all had
Speaker 1: those relationships that kind of jar us where it's like
Speaker 1: I don't typically get upset at this thing, but with
Speaker 1: this person, you're triggering, you're ting me, you're making me
Speaker 1: not want to talk, like what is it with this person?
Speaker 1: Or you know, sometimes when you have a deep connection
Speaker 1: really fast with a dating companion, it's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: like I am the person who takes like we to
Speaker 1: like somebody overnight, you know. So so different relationships bring
Speaker 1: out different parts of us, and we have to be
Speaker 1: open to that. So we don't have to hitch our
Speaker 1: wagon into one attachment style. I am this forever. We're
Speaker 1: capable of change. I do think the attachment styles relate
Speaker 1: to our dependency level. People who are avoidant or have
Speaker 1: more of a disorganized style tend to, you know, have
Speaker 1: some unhealthy dependency. The avoidance you know, I meant the anxiety.
Speaker 1: I think that also causes some in some cases, like codependency,
Speaker 1: when you have that fearful, that anxious it causes some
Speaker 1: codependency and ameshment because you need those people to say
Speaker 1: close so you can feel more secure, like, oh, they
Speaker 1: don't need if they don't leave, if they always do this,
Speaker 1: then then I feel a bit okay. But then it
Speaker 1: comes back up. And then with the avoidant, you know,
Speaker 1: we're still having some dependency issues again on that opposite
Speaker 1: spectrum of we're not letting people in, we're hyperdependent. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I really like that you said it's not to be
Speaker 2: limited by them, because I think sometimes when you get
Speaker 2: labeled as something, you think, well, that's just how I am,
Speaker 2: But actually it could be a place where it helps
Speaker 2: you to recognize the areas that maybe you need to
Speaker 2: improve in, or the areas that you need to adapt
Speaker 2: and become more flexible in, rather than saying this is
Speaker 2: just who I am when you come into the relationship,
Speaker 2: I'm an avoidant, I'm an anxious attachment. Okay, well that's
Speaker 2: just how we're going to be then in this relationship.
Speaker 2: But to use that information to make the other person
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable, but also to use that information to
Speaker 2: make yourself aware of it so you can become better
Speaker 2: with different scenarios within that relationship.
Speaker 1: And in therapy, these are not and people are surprised.
Speaker 1: Sometimes these are not terms I would use with a client, right,
Speaker 1: So if they use those terms, we'll explore it. But
Speaker 1: I don't say, oh, you sound like you have an
Speaker 1: anxious attached right. What I might say is it seems
Speaker 1: like with this person and the last person, when somebody
Speaker 1: starts to get close to you, you pull away. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about why that happens, because it's really the behavior
Speaker 1: or whatever any of these labels are. It's like, what
Speaker 1: is the behavior we're working on. We're working on tolerating,
Speaker 1: building your tolerance for closeness. Right, when someone likes you,
Speaker 1: it's okay to like them back, like you're a super
Speaker 1: cool person. Yeah, yeah, they should like you like it's
Speaker 1: okay to like them back. You don't have to push
Speaker 1: them away. So again, I think these things are great
Speaker 1: for information, but using them as a limitation for ourselves
Speaker 1: and for other people, it doesn't necessarily get us to
Speaker 1: the space we want to be in. We can be
Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone who's avoidant. You know, we
Speaker 1: might have a family member who's like that. Maybe your
Speaker 1: brother like never answers your text or something. And there's
Speaker 1: ways to explore that, to say, like, hey, when I'm
Speaker 1: texting you, I just want to know you're okay. So
Speaker 1: even if you just text me like okay, I'm really
Speaker 1: just checking in because you know, I want to make
Speaker 1: sure you're okay and I need to know like little
Speaker 1: bro is all right. Yeah, yeah, So send me something.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: That's a conversation. It's not a let me text him.
Speaker 1: You're avoiding my calls, right, you know those sorts of things,
Speaker 1: like sometimes people aren't open to that because they have
Speaker 1: this heavy label on them.
Speaker 2: So what is the behavior and what do you say
Speaker 2: to people who or what advice would you give to
Speaker 2: people who always feel like the expectations are not met
Speaker 2: or the disappointed constantly in relationships or yeah, with interactions?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are your expectations? That's really hard because I've
Speaker 1: heard some Yeah, I think people should be able to
Speaker 1: meet that, and I've heard some like that's a wild expectation.
Speaker 1: So I think it really depends. And I think if
Speaker 1: nobody ever ever can meet the expectation, that would make
Speaker 1: me question if my expectation is reasonable? Right? Am I
Speaker 1: communicating my expectation in a way that people can understand.
Speaker 1: Is the relationship in a place where I can even
Speaker 1: have that expectation. One of the things I talk about
Speaker 1: in the book is sometimes our expectations don't fit the
Speaker 1: relationship we are. We're calling someone our best friend, when
Speaker 1: in actuality they're just a friend. They're not best We're
Speaker 1: calling a friend a friend, and this person might be
Speaker 1: an associate. What are your expectations of a neighbor? What
Speaker 1: is your expectations of a coworker, What are your expectations
Speaker 1: of an associate? What are your expectations of work? You know,
Speaker 1: like having these different levels of interaction, it kind of
Speaker 1: helps us not be disappointed. Yes, that is such a
Speaker 1: good point.
Speaker 2: It made me think of Over summer, I ended up
Speaker 2: having this interaction with a friend who wanted to make
Speaker 2: who had asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding,
Speaker 2: and I think I said yes because in my mind
Speaker 2: I had never been a bridesmaid before, so I actually
Speaker 2: didn't know what the expectations of being a bridesmaid for
Speaker 2: a friend looked like. And for her, she had very
Speaker 2: high expectations of what her bridesmaid would be doing for
Speaker 2: her or how they would show up. And I think
Speaker 2: there was such a lack of realization of how close
Speaker 2: the friendship was or how close we each thought we
Speaker 2: were to each other, and then the expectations that were
Speaker 2: put on that one interaction of being my bridesmaid, me
Speaker 2: saying yeah, of course I'll do it, not realizing the
Speaker 2: weight that it held for her, and her not realizing
Speaker 2: for me that I actually didn't think that it was
Speaker 2: much of It was a big deal, but not that
Speaker 2: much of a big deal. And so the lack of
Speaker 2: awareness of our yeah, our expectations of one another really
Speaker 2: ended up making the relationship so much worse because we
Speaker 2: hadn't clarified those expectations and we put different weights to
Speaker 2: each other. We'd held each other in high regards in
Speaker 2: some areas where maybe we weren't supposed to.
Speaker 1: And so what you said really hit.
Speaker 2: Me because I was like, yeah, I think our expectations
Speaker 2: would just have the right expectations of the level that
Speaker 2: you're at with each person, and that makes such a
Speaker 2: difference to make all the terrifying relationships.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with dating sometimes even in our family relationships,
Speaker 1: I mean, we can't categorize them as like best sister
Speaker 1: or association. Yes, but you know, I think just being
Speaker 1: aware that all relationships aren't deeply connected. Some relationships are
Speaker 1: just connection, right, and that's it. Like we you know,
Speaker 1: we see each other on holidays and that's fine, and
Speaker 1: everybody everything doesn't have to be close. And if the
Speaker 1: expectation is that you will be disappointed.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's such a good point that I
Speaker 2: needed to hear, and I'm sure many other people needed
Speaker 2: to hear. I feel like a lot of the time
Speaker 2: you expect when you have a friend that they're going
Speaker 2: to meet every part of what you require a friendship
Speaker 2: to be. They're going to fulfill that. It's like, I
Speaker 2: really feel like this person's going to be my best friend.
Speaker 2: And then as you grow up, you realize you just
Speaker 2: have different people for different things, and each person holds
Speaker 2: You can have a different type of expectation for each person,
Speaker 2: but not all your expectations on one person. It's whether
Speaker 2: it's a friend, whether it's a partner, whether it's your mom.
Speaker 2: It's really difficult for that person to hold that weight
Speaker 2: of all your expectations and for you to expect that
Speaker 2: person to have that for you.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we have to, you know, in
Speaker 1: align with what you're saying, we have to go to
Speaker 1: the right person for the right thing. And you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm having a work issue, I'm an entrepreneur, I
Speaker 1: want to talk to my other entrepreneur friends. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk to my corporate friends about it
Speaker 1: because their situations in life are different. It's not that
Speaker 1: I'm hiding information. It's just like, I think what we're
Speaker 1: talking about is you need to having people who work
Speaker 1: with you and these sources of things. So I want
Speaker 1: to talk to a person who I know have had
Speaker 1: similar experiences because I'm trying to work through mine. Yep.
Speaker 1: So yeah, having different people in different ways is really
Speaker 1: important because I've been in conversations with people where someone
Speaker 1: is talking to you about a thing and it's like
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say. Yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not the right passion for this. This is I cannot
Speaker 1: help you with your taxi. I don't even know how
Speaker 1: we got here of Have you looked at AG and
Speaker 1: R block, Yeah yeah it was. Yeah, I've been in
Speaker 1: that situations for sure.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it might not be the bright passion, but
Speaker 2: I can direct you towards the right person.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like legal issues, I've had people be like, man,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this custody of I don't know,
Speaker 1: like a two three two, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what the thing is like. Have you talked
Speaker 1: to an attorney? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm not the person
Speaker 1: to help with custody arrangements, So yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: in our interest sometimes to even redirect people when we
Speaker 1: find that, whether it's they need a level of expertise
Speaker 1: or they're fixated on a topic. Because sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: we want to be available, we want our friends to
Speaker 1: come to us in crisis. But if we notice, wow,
Speaker 1: you've talked about the same thing in the same way
Speaker 1: for six months, I don't feel like our conversations are
Speaker 1: moving the needle. Have you thought about talking to maybe
Speaker 1: a therapist, or have you mentioned this to your therapist
Speaker 1: directing them to the right play. Yeah, because we don't
Speaker 1: want to be the container for all that stuff. It
Speaker 1: can become too heavy. Yeah, it could become too heavy,
Speaker 1: And then that's when you start avoiding their cause you
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, I am so tired of
Speaker 1: hearing this thing. You don't want that.
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, you talk about isolation and solitude, and I
Speaker 2: really loved the difference that you shed between the two
Speaker 2: of you know, isolation being kind of avoiding things and
Speaker 2: so being a place of power and strength. Would you
Speaker 2: eleperate on a little bit and when and how you
Speaker 2: can differentiate between the two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like isolation is going inward, but in
Speaker 1: a dark space. I think it's it's a dark space
Speaker 1: of you going inWORD, not an act of joy, not
Speaker 1: anything to rejuvenate, not to gain clarity, but just to
Speaker 1: be away from yep. And we have to be careful
Speaker 1: of that because when we see isolation, it intensifies loneliness.
Speaker 1: It is you know a huge culprit of depression, of anxiety,
Speaker 1: of other psychological issues. When you think about isolation, that's
Speaker 1: what they use to punish people, right, sending them off
Speaker 1: by themselves. Yep. And if you do that enough, you know,
Speaker 1: people start talking to themselves and making up stories and
Speaker 1: you know, all sorts of things. So it's a it
Speaker 1: can be a punitive experience that we put on ourselves
Speaker 1: versus solitude where we're exploring, we are recharging, we are
Speaker 1: energetically connecting in another way without people, but we are
Speaker 1: still welcome, welcoming them in some sort of fashion.
Speaker 2: That's such a beautiful way to differentiate the two. I
Speaker 2: wanted to switch back to relationships a little bit because
Speaker 2: you talk about the one in your book and how
Speaker 2: people talk about the one. There's that one person that
Speaker 2: you just fall in love with and that's the only
Speaker 2: person that you're get in love for the rest of
Speaker 2: your life. Give me your insight to that, because I
Speaker 2: really appreciated that part of your book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I hear about the one, sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: person who is not the best for us. And I
Speaker 1: see people struggling to make something work that is not
Speaker 1: working because they have identified this person and as having
Speaker 1: these special qualities, this connection that they've never had before.
Speaker 1: There is some some deeper thing there, and I think
Speaker 1: there are people that you can be compatible with. And
Speaker 1: if you say that this person is the one, I
Speaker 1: think you will do everything in your power to try
Speaker 1: to make it work. Even if it's not working. It
Speaker 1: could be a bad relationship and you're like, but this
Speaker 1: is my person. They are not treating you like their person. Yep.
Speaker 1: This is a one sided experience of you seeing something
Speaker 1: special here and them not really reciprocating in that way.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the one doesn't exist. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: is you have to question the experience of being with
Speaker 1: the one. If this is an unhealthy interaction. Maybe this
Speaker 1: was one of the ones. This is one of the ones,
Speaker 1: be another one. You got your ones mixed up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you may need to keep counting to the ones because
Speaker 1: this one is not working. And that's okay for us
Speaker 1: to really want, you know, this, this thing with a person,
Speaker 1: and it and not be the time. You know what
Speaker 1: I say to people sometimes when they're like, this is
Speaker 1: the one, Maybe it is, but not right now. There
Speaker 1: are tons of people who come back together when they're
Speaker 1: sixty five, yeah, and you're twenty two. Yeah, this might
Speaker 1: be the one in retirement, but right now they're wreaking havoc.
Speaker 1: They got to learn a lot of other stuff in
Speaker 1: the world before they can even come be the one.
Speaker 1: This may not be the time. Maybe they are. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what the universe has for you.
Speaker 1: But today this is the two, right, it's not the one.
Speaker 2: It's almost like you have to break down your own expectations. Yes,
Speaker 2: there's one thing about having expectations that other people, but
Speaker 2: when you've built up these expectations in your own mind,
Speaker 2: you feel like you're disappointing yourself by not allowing, by
Speaker 2: not by breaking that. It's it's breaking your expectations that
Speaker 2: you had of that relationship, of the life that you
Speaker 2: were going to have, of all the little ideas that
Speaker 2: you've created.
Speaker 1: In your mind, and then you have to reframe all
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Love can be blinding. Yeah, it can really be blinding,
Speaker 1: and we can like lose our minds in some of
Speaker 1: the things. Because when you talk to people after they're
Speaker 1: out of relationships, it's like and I saw this, and
Speaker 1: I saw that. Yeah, the clarity comes after I saw that.
Speaker 1: It's it's it. It literally just like disrupts whatever our
Speaker 1: natural flowy is. And we can really ignore a lot
Speaker 1: of things that are not hidden. Yeah, so we have
Speaker 1: to be aware of that that maybe there's something here
Speaker 1: I'm not saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now I was how we want a healthy, wonderful,
Speaker 2: not codependent relationship. Looks like a healthy dependency in a relationship.
Speaker 2: How can you notice that day to day? What does
Speaker 2: it feel like for someone.
Speaker 1: On a day to day basis? It is give and take.
Speaker 1: It is healthy communication with people. So that might look
Speaker 1: like if someone texts you, you read the text or
Speaker 1: you let them know, like, hey, you know, I saw
Speaker 1: your text yesterday, couldn't get to it. But here's the answer.
Speaker 1: You know, you're recognizing that people matter in your life.
Speaker 1: You have several friends, and you have you know, maybe
Speaker 1: some family and a partner, Like you have a robust system.
Speaker 1: You are a villager. Not just in the village. You
Speaker 1: are helping as well. And I think communication skills matter.
Speaker 1: There are so many relationships that end because we did
Speaker 1: not communicate properly. I was speaking with someone earlier about
Speaker 1: getting invice and just not responding to them. How often
Speaker 1: that ends relationships when you could just communicate, Hey, I
Speaker 1: see the date, I won't be available, so true, Like
Speaker 1: that's it. Did you lose a friend because you never
Speaker 1: said anything or you said you would go and you
Speaker 1: didn't show up? Like that feels a way to people.
Speaker 1: So just saying like hey, I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: able to make it. I know it's the last minute,
Speaker 1: something came up, I have a stomach bug or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. You know, letting people know that things have
Speaker 1: shifted so that open communication is healthy dependency in your
Speaker 1: relationships and it's important. It makes all the difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it sounds so simple, and yet we make
Speaker 2: it more complicated by not doing it.
Speaker 1: People don't do it.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, And what about doing conflict? So you know,
Speaker 2: obviously every relationship we're gonna have some sort of conflict.
Speaker 2: What is a healthy way to if you're trying to
Speaker 2: improve the way that you deal with conflict in a relationship.
Speaker 2: What are some steps people can take if it gets
Speaker 2: too heated, usually with arguments, and how can they reframe
Speaker 2: that and reconnect in a way that makes conflicts a
Speaker 2: little bit easier to manage?
Speaker 1: So what I think about what is an argument? Sometimes
Speaker 1: we think if somebody doesn't agree with me, I'm having
Speaker 1: an argument. Well, you're having a conversation. Is a voice elevated?
Speaker 1: Is there, you know, some sort of rude back and
Speaker 1: forth or is it just a conversation about a thing
Speaker 1: you disagree about? So I think if we could reframe
Speaker 1: the way we think about conflict and arguing, we can
Speaker 1: have it more. And one of the things, if we
Speaker 1: could talk about things sooner and not let them faster,
Speaker 1: we don't even have to get to the arguments. If
Speaker 1: we could say the first or second time of something happening. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, the other day I noticed this thing and
Speaker 1: just have a conversation about that. With our calm voice,
Speaker 1: we can prevent a lot of the conflict. And conflict
Speaker 1: is healthy for relationships. It's how we get to know people.
Speaker 1: It's how we start to understand how they operate, how
Speaker 1: they think, what we need, things we need to work
Speaker 1: on when we get upset, because sometimes we don't know
Speaker 1: until we're in conflict. So a conflict free relationship isn't
Speaker 1: healthy because that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so some conflict is good. That's good for the relationship.
Speaker 1: I was saying a couple once and one of the
Speaker 1: folks said, gosh, you must get tired of us. Every
Speaker 1: week we come here and we argue about something. And
Speaker 1: I said, you always talk about something different though you're
Speaker 1: not arguing about the same thing. You're a couple who
Speaker 1: just moved in together, so a lot of this stuff
Speaker 1: is like you learning how to live together. If you
Speaker 1: argued about the same thing every week, I would be concerned.
Speaker 1: This is an ongoing argument. I'm not concerned because it
Speaker 1: seems like we talk about it, you work through it,
Speaker 1: and something else comes up. This is a new situation
Speaker 1: that's going to have in for a few weeks. That's
Speaker 1: why they say the first year of marriage is the
Speaker 1: hardest because you're living with the person and you're discovering
Speaker 1: they do not put a cap on their toothpaste.
Speaker 2: What I did disciple that person lives like this, right,
Speaker 2: And so you're discovering all these They just take their
Speaker 2: socks off, they just put them on the floor.
Speaker 1: Who does that?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And so every week it's something different, this person who
Speaker 1: was just like so perfect. It's like and they leave
Speaker 1: hair in the sink, you know, it's it's it's on
Speaker 1: and on and on. But you're learning how to live
Speaker 1: with a person. Okay, I'm living with someone else. Let
Speaker 1: me get my hair out the sink, let me throw
Speaker 1: my socks in the basket. Or maybe your partner says,
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna talk about this. I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: pick them up and throw them in a basket. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're figuring things out. That's conflict and that's actually healthy.
Speaker 2: What do you think is the main message you want
Speaker 2: people to really take away from your book? If there's
Speaker 2: one thing that you want them to take away to
Speaker 2: enhunt their life in some way, what do you feel
Speaker 2: like that would be.
Speaker 1: Being with other peop people is important, and we have
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to hold our boundaries to
Speaker 1: being being healing mode to work on ourselves while working
Speaker 1: with other people and their stuff. And I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about toxic stuff. I don't want. I don't want people
Speaker 1: to say, oh yeah, accept abuse. No, I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about abuse, neglect and those sorts of things. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about somebody being routine annoying in a relationship. Relationships should
Speaker 1: annoy us. Sometimes they should cause us to have, you know,
Speaker 1: a moment where it's inconvenient. Things happen for people and
Speaker 1: things happen for us, and so just having the flexibility
Speaker 1: around being in relationships is important right now. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's so wonderful, Nata, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: This is such a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to hopefully help so many people
Speaker 2: reconnect and create deeper, more meaningful relationships. Everybody, go out
Speaker 2: there and grab the balancing act creating healthy dependency and
Speaker 2: connection without losing yourself. Another best selling book, I'm sure
Speaker 2: from Nedra.
Speaker 1: Thank you again. Thanks so wonderful.