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Speaker 1: What's behind Beyonce A whole lot of help being self made?

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Speaker 1: It sounds really strong. We are starting to see some

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Speaker 1: people who have been highly functioning on their own sort

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Speaker 1: of crash.

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Speaker 2: Nedra is a licensed therapist with a community of over

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Speaker 2: two million on Instagram. She reaches the global audience each

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Speaker 2: week through her podcast You Need to Hear This. In

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Speaker 2: her newest book, The Balancing Act, Nedra offers a roadmap

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Speaker 2: to creating relationships that on a both dependency and individuality.

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Speaker 2: Tell me what a healthy, wonderful, not codependent relationship looks like.

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Speaker 1: We're not very flexible with people. When people have a limitation,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean gosh, I got it in the relationship

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Speaker 1: with this person. A conflict free relationship isn't healthy because

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Speaker 1: that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah, so some

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Speaker 1: conflict is good for the relationship. You have to question

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Speaker 1: the experience of being with the one. Maybe this was

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Speaker 1: one of the ones. There may be another one. You

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Speaker 1: got your ones mixed up. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: universe has for you, but today this is the two

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Speaker 1: right the one.

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Speaker 2: I'm radi wkah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,

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Speaker 2: we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space

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Speaker 2: for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you

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Speaker 2: to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Noda,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. I deeply enjoyed

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Speaker 2: reading your book. I felt like I learned so much

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Speaker 2: from it. So first I just want to say thank

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Speaker 2: you for being here and blessing us with your presence.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. This is this is going

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Speaker 1: to be good. I feel the calmness entering my spirit.

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Speaker 1: You actually really have that energy.

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Speaker 2: As soon as you walked in and I was in

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Speaker 2: your sphere of energy, I was like, Wow, she's a

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Speaker 2: very calm person and I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: So thanks for bringing that here. You're welcome. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you just to start off.

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Speaker 2: So I know you've already had two incredible books that

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Speaker 2: have come out, both on different topics. What brought you

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Speaker 2: to write this book and why this topic in particular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, what I'm noticing now with some of my

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Speaker 1: clients is more disconnection in their relationships. And I think

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Speaker 1: when we seek boundaries and we seek healing, and we

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Speaker 1: seek all these things, it needs to be in tandem

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Speaker 1: with connection. And so it's very important to me to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we could be dependent in healthy ways. We don't have

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Speaker 1: to erase everything. We don't have to reject all things

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Speaker 1: or have these you know, strong rules about stuff in

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Speaker 1: every situation. We have to be flexible because being connected

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Speaker 1: leads to better mental health, longer life span, all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. But it's positive for us to have these connections.

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Speaker 1: And I see that we're losing them.

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Speaker 2: And obviously you've had you've had many clients, and you've

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Speaker 2: done this for such a long time. What are you

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Speaker 2: noticing or what past things are you noticing that people

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Speaker 2: are having that is causing this disconnection.

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Speaker 1: I think people are more self aware and maybe a

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Speaker 1: little less sometimes other tolerating. Okay, right, so I'm more

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Speaker 1: self aware and the things that people won't change or

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Speaker 1: haven't change is annoying. Now, there are some things that

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Speaker 1: I think we can all agree are toxic, unhealthy, abusive,

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Speaker 1: But then there are other things where it's like you

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Speaker 1: may have a friend where you need to just have

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Speaker 1: a conversation with them and say, hey, you can't call

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Speaker 1: me seven times today, I'm not available. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: the relationship needs to end or you need to confront them.

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Speaker 1: But it's just like I'm not available that much. I

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Speaker 1: have a busy work schedule. I will, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: chat with you when I'm done, but you know, reassuring people,

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Speaker 1: letting them know that you want to be in a

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Speaker 1: relationship and it's still important to you. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes it's really difficult to know whether

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Speaker 2: the boundary between being self aware and then being selfish,

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Speaker 2: like being so self obsessed in not self obsessed in

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Speaker 2: an extiboy, but being so self aware that it kind

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Speaker 2: of turns into self obsession where you're being so protective,

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Speaker 2: so rigid with the way that you want to live

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Speaker 2: your life, and then you have like this lack of

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Speaker 2: consideration maybe for others, because I feel like in society

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Speaker 2: we're told now it's so much about self care, self regulation,

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Speaker 2: self self self and I think that sometimes can stop

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Speaker 2: us from connecting with people and actually taking other people

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Speaker 2: into consideration.

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Speaker 1: As much agreed. Tonight, I have a friend date with

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Speaker 1: a friend who just happens to be in work from Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: She's here working and she was like, well, let me

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Speaker 1: know what hotel you're saying it so I could get

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Speaker 1: a room. I said, you don't have to do that.

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Speaker 1: We can share a room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She was like really. I was like, yeah, old school

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Speaker 1: sleepover with Yeah. Now she was like okay, yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: we live in a society now it's like separate room

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Speaker 1: more division, can't share. Oh my gosh, what if she

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Speaker 1: wants the room too warm? I'm like, will work it out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: being a little bit more flexible than like, I will

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Speaker 1: work it out, like maybe I'll put on an extra

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Speaker 1: shirt or something like it a little chillier. But I

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Speaker 1: really want to spend this time with you, and I

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Speaker 1: think if we go to our separate rooms, that's less

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Speaker 1: time that we get to spend together. Yeah, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: That's such a nice way to think about it actually,

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Speaker 2: especially in situations where you don't feel comfortable, like sometimes

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Speaker 2: putting yourself out of your comfort zone when it comes

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Speaker 2: to building connections is how you can create better relationships.

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Speaker 2: And I find with I mean speaking for myself, when

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Speaker 2: I moved countries and I came here, I noticed I

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Speaker 2: had to put myself into uncomfortable communication and uncomfortable scenarios

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Speaker 2: to actually build relationships with people. Otherwise, if I kept

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Speaker 2: myself to myself, I would have probably felt really lonely

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Speaker 2: when I was here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you have to go the distance

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Speaker 1: in those situations. It's like, Okay, I had lunch with

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Speaker 1: that person, it was pretty cool, and let's follow up. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: abandon it because sometimes we'll start that connection, will notice

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Speaker 1: that spark, and then we just like let it fizzle totally.

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Speaker 1: You have to keep it going, Yeah, you really do.

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Speaker 2: What are some practical tools that you find if people

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Speaker 2: are feeling a little bit lonely but also find themselves

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Speaker 2: being someone who doesn't connect as easily. What are some

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Speaker 2: easy tips of tools that people can use to get

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Speaker 2: themselves to a place but they are able to connect better.

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Speaker 1: Who's already in your orbit? Sometimes we're not noticing who

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Speaker 1: has been saying do you need any help? You want

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Speaker 1: to go out for coffee? Yeah, yeah, let's get it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes really follow up on that. Maybe there's someone already

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Speaker 1: there and you don't need to seek out any new people.

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Speaker 1: Are there some old people around? Because sometimes we have

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Speaker 1: lost some connections that we just need to send that

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Speaker 1: text or we need to say, hey, it's been a while,

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Speaker 1: Yeah I'd love to reconnect with you. So meeting the

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Speaker 1: new people is great and also who's already here. What

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Speaker 1: do I need to nurture? What can can flourish with

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Speaker 1: a little bit of care and love and attention. From

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Speaker 1: my perspective.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting because these days, when you do follow

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Speaker 2: up with people, when you say let's get coffee and

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Speaker 2: you actually message them, I noticed, it's such almost like

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Speaker 2: a shock that that actually happened, that this person actually

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Speaker 2: followed up. And my mom has that characteristic of she

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Speaker 2: if she says she's going to do something, or she's

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Speaker 2: going to make a call for you, or she's gonna

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Speaker 2: message you, she will absolutely do it, like she will

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Speaker 2: go that extra mile for you. But I've noticed in

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Speaker 2: our generation it's so much harder for people to actually

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Speaker 2: do that, yeah, to follow through, and when they do,

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Speaker 2: it's like a surprise, Oh, well, that person actually messaged me.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes because we are so busy, we have

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Speaker 1: to remember it's not that people don't want to be

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Speaker 1: in community with us. Sometimes they are busy. We are busy,

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Speaker 1: and these things just fall out if we don't keep

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Speaker 1: them going. Yeah, and also with relationships, I think it's

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Speaker 1: really important that we give people a strategic thing they

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Speaker 1: can do. So if I want to connect with you.

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Speaker 1: It's like, hey, are you available on the thirteenth at

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Speaker 1: five o'clock for dinner?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Finish the finish the sentence right right. You want to

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Speaker 1: connect because sometimes people forget that, but sometimes people want

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Speaker 1: to connect and it's all of this other noise in

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Speaker 1: life and we can't have those connections. But giving them

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Speaker 1: something strategic and solid, like can we do this on

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Speaker 1: this date at this time. It works very well. If

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Speaker 1: I text a friend and I say like, hey, want

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Speaker 1: to grab dinner? Usually I follow up with a RESI invite. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you add yourself to the it's done. And I have

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Speaker 1: one friend she's like, thank you girl. You are always yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I am, but it's only because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to have ten text messages about doing the

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Speaker 1: thing and then we never do the thing. It's so true,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying any of them, it's like we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about connecting for a very long time. We haven't actually

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Speaker 1: scheduled anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. My husband's really good at that. Actually

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Speaker 2: I'm getting better at It's something I'm working on for sure.

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Speaker 2: In your book, you talk about a dependency spectrum. Could

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Speaker 2: you share a little bit more about that and educate

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Speaker 2: us on what that looks like.

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Speaker 1: And is everyone on that spectrum? Yes, everybody is on

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Speaker 1: the dependency spectrum. I would say on the unhealthy end

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Speaker 1: of it, you see more codependency, and you see more enmeshment.

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Speaker 1: And then on the healthier and would you would see

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Speaker 1: where you can exist in relationships and give and take

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Speaker 1: and rejuvenate. But I would say, if we look at

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Speaker 1: the spectrum like this, one end is codependency enmeshment, than

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Speaker 1: this other end is counterdependency or hyper independence, where you

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Speaker 1: feel this need to do things without people, where you're

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Speaker 1: more avoidant of relationships and connection, or you have this

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Speaker 1: do it yourself approach. And then in the middle, you know,

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Speaker 1: right there in the middle, that's where we can invite

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Speaker 1: people in. We can let them know what our needs are.

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Speaker 1: We can place our boundaries gently, we can have tough conversations.

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Speaker 1: We can be flexible. We allow other people to be flexible.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the big things I'm noticing now

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Speaker 1: is we're not very flexible with people. Sometimes when people

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Speaker 1: have a limitation, it doesn't mean gosh, I got to

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Speaker 1: end the relationship with this person because they don't want

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Speaker 1: to start doing yoga with me, it's like, that's not

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Speaker 1: your yoga friend. Yeah, yeah, you have to find new people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it might be somebody who's already going to the classes

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Speaker 1: or someone you ask in another setting, but it's not

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Speaker 1: this person, and you can still have a relationship with them.

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Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes we're like, no, this person has

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Speaker 1: if you're a friend, it means this, this, this, and this.

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Speaker 1: When we can be flexible and say, well, huh, okay,

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Speaker 1: you're not a friend for that.

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Speaker 2: And the spectrum that you mentioned, you said one side

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Speaker 2: of it as could you elaborate on that littabit and

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Speaker 2: give some signs and like symptoms of what it might

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Speaker 2: look like if you are in that kind of relationship.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So one side I would say is enmeshment, which

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Speaker 1: is having a I don't want to say just close connection,

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Speaker 1: but one where you do everything together, you think alike,

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Speaker 1: you're unable to have any separation. Sometimes this happens in families,

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Speaker 1: and it's fine until one person wants something different. It's

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Speaker 1: fine until maybe somebody else comes into that system and

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Speaker 1: they're like, what is happening here? Why are you sleeping

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Speaker 1: in the bed with your mom?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Come on, he're my partner. Don't do this, so you know,

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Speaker 1: they start to notice, like these things are weird. You're

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Speaker 1: talking to your mom like twenty times a day, like

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Speaker 1: that's you know, and if that's okay for you, and

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Speaker 1: it's fine, it's really not a problem, right because you

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Speaker 1: all are mutually agreeing to this, But it becomes problematic

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Speaker 1: when one person wants to break out of that sort

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Speaker 1: of sins. And then I would say, pretty much akin

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Speaker 1: to that is codependency, where we are helping someone who

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Speaker 1: has some unhealthy thing along to their detriment. We're doing

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Speaker 1: it to feel this need we have to be wanted,

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Speaker 1: to be needed, to have some space, and sometimes we

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Speaker 1: are you know, I think with codependency, we are showing

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Speaker 1: that I love this person and I want to help them.

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Speaker 1: The challenge is it's just not helpful, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't get this person to do something in their

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Speaker 1: life that they're not interested in, no matter what their

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Speaker 1: potential is, no matter you know what you give them.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people have to do those things on their own.

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Speaker 1: So the codependency is like I'm going to save them,

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Speaker 1: and then the ameshment is like I have to be

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Speaker 1: with them all the time, and then you know, the

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Speaker 1: opposite end of that, we have counterdependency where people have

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Speaker 1: you know, based on you know, maybe some trauma in

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Speaker 1: a relationlationship, or some family upbringing stuff that I need

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Speaker 1: to do things on my own. Relationships are a place

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Speaker 1: of pain. If people get too close, they can hurt me.

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Speaker 1: And so with that you don't have any people.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's also trying to prove yourself right,

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Speaker 2: like that I can do things by myself. Sometimes it

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Speaker 2: can be you feel like people have done too much

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Speaker 2: for you in your life, and then you get to

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Speaker 2: an age where you're saying, no, no, I want to

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Speaker 2: prove that I can do things by myself. And in

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Speaker 2: your book you talk about being self made, and I

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Speaker 2: really love the point that you made in that about

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Speaker 2: how no one's actually have a self made no, like,

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Speaker 2: you never do anything by yourself.

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Speaker 1: It made me a cup of tea. Yeah this wasn't

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Speaker 1: self made. Somebody made the tea. Yeah, you know, so

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Speaker 1: is that even a real thing? You know, we rely

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Speaker 1: on people, whether we see them or we don't. We

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Speaker 1: are relying on other people for our goods, for our living.

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Speaker 1: You know, your power, your your gas, all of those

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Speaker 1: things come from other places in the world. Outside yourself.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing with being self made it sounds

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Speaker 1: really strong, Yeah, exactly. Sound was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I'm like this fearless person. I don't need any people.

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Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate. Actually, it's very sad. You know. I

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Speaker 1: do think we get less needy with time. When you

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Speaker 1: think of an infant, like they're one hundred percent needy. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't even hold your head up. It's like you

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Speaker 1: need help with everything. Yeah. And then you you know,

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Speaker 1: you get a little older and you can do these things,

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Speaker 1: but you still need people in some capacity. You never

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Speaker 1: grow out of needing, No, you really don't.

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Speaker 2: And I think, and I always I loved what you

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Speaker 2: said in your book about we're supposed to be needy,

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Speaker 2: Like we as humans are meant to be needy. We're

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Speaker 2: supposed to need other people. And the moment you end

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Speaker 2: up thinking that it's just you, you not only put yourself up,

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Speaker 2: you know, you disadvantage yourself because you're not allowing the

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Speaker 2: kind of the connections. And the more the hands that

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Speaker 2: you can hold, the more you have the capability of doing,

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Speaker 2: and the more people that you allow into your life,

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Speaker 2: the more opportunities and experiences that you get. And so

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Speaker 2: I feel like, if you constantly think that I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do this by myself, I can do it by myself.

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Speaker 1: I will and I don't.

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Speaker 2: Need anyone to help me. You're almost putting yourself at

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Speaker 2: such a disadvantage. I feel like for a lot of women,

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Speaker 2: especially because of how society has become, we're always wanting

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Speaker 2: to prove ourselves, to show that we don't need other people,

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Speaker 2: like that we can do things by ourselves, because I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've noticed that a lot of my friends and even

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Speaker 2: in myself, I went through a phrase of saying, I

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Speaker 2: don't need anyone to pick.

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Speaker 1: Up my bags.

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Speaker 2: I don't need anyone to you know, if I'm scared

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Speaker 2: at night of walking somewhere, I don't actually need anyone

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Speaker 2: to take me there because I am capable of going

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Speaker 2: by myself. And I think there's this constant proving of

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Speaker 2: being a strong independent woman as being a positive and

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Speaker 2: it being such a big thing. But it's also okay

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Speaker 2: to lean into your feminine feel like you do need

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Speaker 2: other people to support you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think we are starting to see some

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Speaker 1: people who have been highly functioning on their own sort

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Speaker 1: of crash, yeah, because it is a lot to always

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Speaker 1: be the responsible party, to be the person who has

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Speaker 1: everyone coming to them, to be, you know, the strong one,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have anywhere to go. Like that's I

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Speaker 1: hope it's you know, trending down. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and that we are learning that it's it's okay to

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Speaker 1: embrace people, like to have more people to help you

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Speaker 1: with things. Yeah, that's that's how you go further. You know.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we look at people in our fields and we

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Speaker 1: admire them, and it's like, what's behind Beyonce? A whole

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Speaker 1: lot of help? Yeah, a whole lot of help. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just the decisions that she doesn't have to make because

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Speaker 1: other people are helping her helps her to be this superstar. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she couldn't do all this stuff like that's not possible.

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Speaker 1: So we have to embrace to be a better version

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. We too need to ask for help, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes if we can't pay for the help. Some of

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Speaker 1: us are fortunate enough to have housekeepers or to have

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Speaker 1: a babysitting service, or laundry services or all these things,

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Speaker 1: we have to think about who in our community could help.

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Speaker 1: Can I go over to my friend's house once a

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Speaker 1: week for dinner and she comes over to mind that

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Speaker 1: takes me having a cook out of the loop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's helpful. That's enough. Yeah, we have to get creative

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Speaker 1: around what being in connection and in partnerships with others

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Speaker 1: in this life really looks like, Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to what you were saying

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Speaker 2: about codependency, because you know, I feel like there's two

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Speaker 2: different types of couples that I've.

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Speaker 1: Been seeing a lot.

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Speaker 2: Either a couple who they get together and then they

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Speaker 2: literally do everything together. They rely on each other so

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Speaker 2: much they become really insular where sometimes their friends don't

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Speaker 2: even matter, like everything ends up being them two together

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Speaker 2: doing everything together. Do you think that that is an

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Speaker 2: unhealthy approach? And do you think there's a need for

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Speaker 2: couples to have their own individual friends, their own individual

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Speaker 2: people that they have in their life or have you

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Speaker 2: seen at work?

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Speaker 1: I can't say many people come to therapy with that problem. Okay,

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Speaker 1: of spending two us time together. Okay, okay, it's the opposite.

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Speaker 1: It's like you are, please go on a date, right,

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Speaker 1: It's so the opposite. But outside of that space, I

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Speaker 1: have seen that, and I think in some ways that

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Speaker 1: level of I was saying, meshment is probably healthy at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of your relationship when you're getting to know

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Speaker 1: each other and you like shut off the noise in

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Speaker 1: the world, and it's like it's so true, just like

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Speaker 1: this is so great. Yeah. After some time, I would

356
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Speaker 1: say about a year or so, maybe you know, you

357
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 1: start to come back to yourself. Yeah, and you start to, oh,

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Speaker 1: my gosh, on Thursdays, I used to go to trivia.

359
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Speaker 1: What happened? I got to get back to my trivia people.

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Speaker 1: You know, they miss you. Yeah, yeah, maybe it's Oh,

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Speaker 1: I've had my head in the sand with the love

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Speaker 1: of my life, let's have a girl's night. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think as we get older, hopeful with hopefully we

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Speaker 1: learn not to abandon our world when people come into

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Speaker 1: our lives and we really figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: incorporate them into it, even if that's like I just

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Speaker 1: I want to be with my man all the time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe your friend third Wheels, Yeah exactly, it's like,

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Speaker 1: now all of y'all can be together, like figuring out

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Speaker 1: some sort of way to keep those things going. But

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Speaker 1: maybe there are some couples who it's like they're like

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Speaker 1: this forever and ever. I don't know any in particular. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but but.

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Speaker 2: You said right at the beginning of the relationship, it

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Speaker 2: is really nice to have go into your own noble

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Speaker 2: well then be able to connect him that.

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Speaker 1: Way, yeah, and come out of it. Yeah, yeah, and

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00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: then come out of it. Don't stay there, because what

379
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Speaker 1: tends to happen. Let's say that the couples I've known

380
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Speaker 1: where they have had that prolonged experience, one of them

381
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: starts to get tired of it, right, So it's it's

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00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,880
Speaker 1: maybe the other person they want to keep it going, like, well,

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Speaker 1: we spend all our time together, and the other person

384
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Speaker 1: is like, I need a break, I need a break,

385
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Speaker 1: Like this is intense, Like I really really love you,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to be with you all the time.

387
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Speaker 1: And it's it's not anything about you, but it's really

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Speaker 1: like there's something about having your own time to be silent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's something about having your own space with people who

390
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Speaker 1: aren't your partner. Yes, those connections.

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Speaker 2: And the couples that you were saying on the other

392
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Speaker 2: side of the spectrum where they've lost that connections and

393
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Speaker 2: they're trying to rebuild that. What are some of the

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00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 2: things that you recommend that they do to help rebuild

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Speaker 2: that deeper connection that they're looking for.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think time together matters. And as we are

397
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Speaker 1: moving through life and we have work and we have

398
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: all these things, we get into the rhythm of I

399
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Speaker 1: go to my space, you go to your space doing

400
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: mundane things together, whether that's you know, having breakfast together

401
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 1: in the morning before you all leave for work, or

402
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: if you work from home, having breakfast together, maybe having

403
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 1: lunch a few times a week. Also, if you need

404
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: to run errands, take your partner with you. They can

405
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: go to ups. Yeah, everybody's welcome, you know, So take

406
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: them on some errands with you.

407
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: And they also have some dates, plan schedule things that

408
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Speaker 2: you're doing together.

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Speaker 1: Schedule things not all on one partner. Yeah, both people

410
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: can figure out what a date could be. So I

411
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: think that time together is really important. You know, when

412
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Speaker 1: you look at the divorces that we see, like in media,

413
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: it's like they were always traveling. They didn't have any

414
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Speaker 1: time together, right right, right. It's something about making the

415
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: connection important. And when we don't have people around, we

416
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: start to have a life without them. Yeah, like if

417
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Speaker 1: my partner is never here or we don't have any

418
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: ways to connect? What are we doing? What is this relationship?

419
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Speaker 1: I was talking to a friend who's an astronaut and

420
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Speaker 1: she was saying how I was asking her because you

421
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: travel so much. Yeah, like you're gone for months and

422
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: you know, she was I was saying, how do you

423
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Speaker 1: stay connected with your husband? And she said, we've talked

424
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: about the moon that I see is the moon that

425
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: you see? And when we stare at the moon, we

426
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: are seeing each other. And I said, Oh, are you

427
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: writing a rhymklm about that moon? Like we're connecting over

428
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: the moon. And that's Katie Kleman. I met her a

429
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: while ago and I was like, oh, my gosh, an

430
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: astronaut and she yeah. I was like, that's that's such

431
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: an interesting job to have and to have a long marriage.

432
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: It's like, how do you do that? And she's like, yeah,

433
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: I do it by you know, making the time I'm gone.

434
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: But we have other connection points. So I think having

435
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: something with a partner that's consistent and true for you

436
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: is really important. And I don't have a time remedy

437
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: for that, Like I can't say, oh, you should spend

438
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: six hours a week with your partner because it's you

439
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: know it's unique and it's up to the couple. Everybody's

440
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: needs are different. However, I do know that that unique

441
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: connection is important.

442
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like, well there's mundane things that

443
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: you said of having breakfast together, going to ups to

444
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: t It's like it can either and even they're looking

445
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: at the moon and seeing in a different way. It

446
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: can either be a monotonous thing that you do every

447
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: single day and the same activity can have intense connection

448
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: or it can have intense disconnection. So that same activity,

449
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: depending on how you are choosing to interact with that person,

450
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: can completely shift. Are you choosing to be on your

451
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 2: phone or are you choosing to put it down for

452
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: that fifteen minutes where you guys are eating together so

453
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: you can think of questions and conversations that you can have.

454
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: Or you could be having breakfast every single day together

455
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: and not connect at all. And so I feel like

456
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: having those those moments, but having them where you're a

457
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: lot more conscious of how.

458
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: Those moments are being spent.

459
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: Then even if you just have those fifteen minutes a

460
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: day together, it can feel like you've reconnected every single

461
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: day for fifteen minutes, even if it's just for those

462
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: small moments.

463
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we need to do that in our

464
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: romantic relationships with our family with her, Yeah, and like

465
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: being intentional about curating the relationship experience I used to.

466
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: That reminds me of when me and Jay had started dating.

467
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: We I used to spend a lot of time in

468
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: my family. I still do, but even though we're far away.

469
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: But when we started dating, I would be like, just

470
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: come over and spend time with my family. Like that's

471
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 2: how I would tell him that we just hang out

472
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: and have dates together, but like, just come over with

473
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: my mom and dad, we're watching a movie. Come over

474
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: and spend time together. And I remember I'm saying to me,

475
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: he was like, as much as I love your family,

476
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: I'm not a let me just sit around with your

477
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: family type of person. And at first I thought, that's

478
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: so rude, because why would you not want to spend

479
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: time with.

480
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: Me and my family.

481
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: And then because when it's your family, of course you

482
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: want to spend time with them, And then I remember

483
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: him saying, he goes, I will always want to spend

484
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: quality time with your family, but I don't want to

485
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: be someone who's spending unconscious time with them where I

486
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: just have to be there but not actually connect with them,

487
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: and so he's always He's taught me the idea of Okay,

488
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 2: even if we don't have a lot of time, I

489
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: want your if I'm spending time with your dad, I

490
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 2: want it to be intentional, and I want it to

491
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 2: feel like we've actually connected, and I want it to

492
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: be off quality. I don't really want to just sit

493
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: there and watch a movie with him because I don't

494
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: feel like I've connected to him. And so that for

495
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: me was really interesting because I used to spend a

496
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: lot of passive time with my family, and now I

497
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: try to make it so that I have individual connection

498
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: with each person or ask them about their you know,

499
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: life before I existed, or like question them and get

500
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: to know them a little bit deeper when I'm spending

501
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: time with them rather than it being passive interactions. And

502
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: it's really changed the quality of our relationship in that way.

503
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: Some more quality time and that quantity.

504
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: Time, yes, exactly, more intentional, like you said, spend thinking

505
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: about how that time is being utilized.

506
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's really important. You know, there is many

507
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: parenting experts will say, like fifteen strategic minutes with your children. Yeah,

508
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: just having like literally like I'm going to sit here

509
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: and play whatever you want to play. Yeah, Like that's

510
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: an important way to connect. A lot of times we think,

511
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have to play Uno for hours

512
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: and hours and it's just like not necessarily, but sometime,

513
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: can it be fifteen minutes? Can it be twenty minutes?

514
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: Can it be thirty minutes of intentional time? Not just

515
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: like I'm packing your lunch and we're doing this, but like,

516
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: here is our time together to really focus on each other.

517
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: And can it be in a way that you know

518
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: that person likes to spend time together? Yeah. Yeah. With kids,

519
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: that's really important. They love to, you know, have their

520
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: way with you, teach, teach you stuff. I know my

521
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: daughter is like, do you know how to play so

522
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: and so?

523
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: No?

524
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: I don't. And when she teaches me something, she never

525
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: stops talking about it. Now, what is your do with

526
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: I have to dine and twelve? Okay? The nine year

527
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: old is the one who's like, let me show you

528
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: a thing and you have to look.

529
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, my nephews like that. Tim always wants to

530
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: like tell me about the things that he's learning. So

531
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: now I just let him to sit and listen and

532
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 2: he just loves being the one that's teaching and sharing

533
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: with other people rather than the other person doing a

534
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: lot of the.

535
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: Test their whole world. Yeah exactly. When they get to

536
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: take that role of like listen to me, so true,

537
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: they feel like powerful. So I'm like, okay, how do

538
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: we do it? My daughter has tried to teach me

539
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: to knit. Wow, I can't get it, but I love

540
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: to watch you do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. I

541
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: love watching you. So I that second loop with the

542
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: oh I can't get like you did that? You did it? Yeah, amazing.

543
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: With your blanket, you touch on attachment styles in your book,

544
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: and I was wondering how you feel that really impacts

545
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: not just romantic relationships, but also with your children or

546
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: with your family, and how can we utilize them to

547
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: really deepen or maintain connections.

548
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: I think it's something to be aware of but not

549
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: limited by. Okay, And sometimes with attachment styles, people will say, oh,

550
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm avoidant or I'm ancious, as if it's now this

551
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: personality trait, and we negate all of the things that

552
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: brought us to that attachment style. And sometimes we have

553
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: to point the finger at the problem and not everyone

554
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: because if you're saying, I'm giving in to having this

555
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: person who made me feel like I should never ask

556
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: for help, so now I'm never doing it. I'm avoidant

557
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: of you know, people and them trying to get too

558
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: close to me because I won't. I won't be hurt again.

559
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: You are letting the past determine what your future can

560
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: be relationships, and you know in parenting you can do

561
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: that too. You can still be anxious and you know,

562
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 1: we call that helicopter parenting or always kicking on your

563
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: kids and you know, all these sorts of things. Or

564
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: you could be avoidant where you know your kids they

565
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: don't really have any support from you, where they feel

566
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: neglected because you're really not in tune with their life

567
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: and friendships. We could do it where you know, people

568
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: text us and we never respond. You know, we're being avoidant.

569
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: We're not following up with that person. We could be anxious.

570
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: Is she mad at me? Is she? You know? So

571
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: the disorganized, the anxious attachment, the avoidant, I think it

572
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: has a place. And also we can override all systems. Yeah,

573
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: we do not have to stay there. There are certain

574
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: relationships where we just feel so secure because of who

575
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: the person is and how they show up with us.

576
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: There are others where we might have some more avoidant

577
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: tendencies because of I don't know, maybe they represent something.

578
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: Maybe there's something there, because I think we've all had

579
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: those relationships that kind of jar us where it's like

580
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't typically get upset at this thing, but with

581
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: this person, you're triggering, you're ting me, you're making me

582
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: not want to talk, like what is it with this person?

583
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: Or you know, sometimes when you have a deep connection

584
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: really fast with a dating companion, it's like, oh my gosh,

585
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: like I am the person who takes like we to

586
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: like somebody overnight, you know. So so different relationships bring

587
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: out different parts of us, and we have to be

588
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: open to that. So we don't have to hitch our

589
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: wagon into one attachment style. I am this forever. We're

590
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: capable of change. I do think the attachment styles relate

591
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 1: to our dependency level. People who are avoidant or have

592
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: more of a disorganized style tend to, you know, have

593
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: some unhealthy dependency. The avoidance you know, I meant the anxiety.

594
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: I think that also causes some in some cases, like codependency,

595
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: when you have that fearful, that anxious it causes some

596
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: codependency and ameshment because you need those people to say

597
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: close so you can feel more secure, like, oh, they

598
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: don't need if they don't leave, if they always do this,

599
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: then then I feel a bit okay. But then it

600
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: comes back up. And then with the avoidant, you know,

601
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: we're still having some dependency issues again on that opposite

602
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: spectrum of we're not letting people in, we're hyperdependent. Yeah.

603
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 2: I really like that you said it's not to be

604
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: limited by them, because I think sometimes when you get

605
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: labeled as something, you think, well, that's just how I am,

606
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: But actually it could be a place where it helps

607
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: you to recognize the areas that maybe you need to

608
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: improve in, or the areas that you need to adapt

609
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: and become more flexible in, rather than saying this is

610
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: just who I am when you come into the relationship,

611
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: I'm an avoidant, I'm an anxious attachment. Okay, well that's

612
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: just how we're going to be then in this relationship.

613
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: But to use that information to make the other person

614
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: feel more comfortable, but also to use that information to

615
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: make yourself aware of it so you can become better

616
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: with different scenarios within that relationship.

617
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: And in therapy, these are not and people are surprised.

618
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: Sometimes these are not terms I would use with a client, right,

619
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: So if they use those terms, we'll explore it. But

620
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: I don't say, oh, you sound like you have an

621
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: anxious attached right. What I might say is it seems

622
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: like with this person and the last person, when somebody

623
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: starts to get close to you, you pull away. Let's

624
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: talk about why that happens, because it's really the behavior

625
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: or whatever any of these labels are. It's like, what

626
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: is the behavior we're working on. We're working on tolerating,

627
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: building your tolerance for closeness. Right, when someone likes you,

628
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: it's okay to like them back, like you're a super

629
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: cool person. Yeah, yeah, they should like you like it's

630
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: okay to like them back. You don't have to push

631
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: them away. So again, I think these things are great

632
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: for information, but using them as a limitation for ourselves

633
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: and for other people, it doesn't necessarily get us to

634
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: the space we want to be in. We can be

635
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone who's avoidant. You know, we

636
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: might have a family member who's like that. Maybe your

637
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: brother like never answers your text or something. And there's

638
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: ways to explore that, to say, like, hey, when I'm

639
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: texting you, I just want to know you're okay. So

640
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: even if you just text me like okay, I'm really

641
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: just checking in because you know, I want to make

642
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: sure you're okay and I need to know like little

643
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: bro is all right. Yeah, yeah, So send me something.

644
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: You know.

645
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: That's a conversation. It's not a let me text him.

646
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: You're avoiding my calls, right, you know those sorts of things,

647
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: like sometimes people aren't open to that because they have

648
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: this heavy label on them.

649
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: So what is the behavior and what do you say

650
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: to people who or what advice would you give to

651
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: people who always feel like the expectations are not met

652
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: or the disappointed constantly in relationships or yeah, with interactions?

653
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are your expectations? That's really hard because I've

654
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: heard some Yeah, I think people should be able to

655
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: meet that, and I've heard some like that's a wild expectation.

656
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: So I think it really depends. And I think if

657
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: nobody ever ever can meet the expectation, that would make

658
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: me question if my expectation is reasonable? Right? Am I

659
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: communicating my expectation in a way that people can understand.

660
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: Is the relationship in a place where I can even

661
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: have that expectation. One of the things I talk about

662
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: in the book is sometimes our expectations don't fit the

663
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: relationship we are. We're calling someone our best friend, when

664
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: in actuality they're just a friend. They're not best We're

665
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: calling a friend a friend, and this person might be

666
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: an associate. What are your expectations of a neighbor? What

667
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: is your expectations of a coworker, What are your expectations

668
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: of an associate? What are your expectations of work? You know,

669
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: like having these different levels of interaction, it kind of

670
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: helps us not be disappointed. Yes, that is such a

671
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: good point.

672
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: It made me think of Over summer, I ended up

673
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 2: having this interaction with a friend who wanted to make

674
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: who had asked me to be a bridesmaid in her wedding,

675
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: and I think I said yes because in my mind

676
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: I had never been a bridesmaid before, so I actually

677
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: didn't know what the expectations of being a bridesmaid for

678
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 2: a friend looked like. And for her, she had very

679
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: high expectations of what her bridesmaid would be doing for

680
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: her or how they would show up. And I think

681
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: there was such a lack of realization of how close

682
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: the friendship was or how close we each thought we

683
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: were to each other, and then the expectations that were

684
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: put on that one interaction of being my bridesmaid, me

685
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 2: saying yeah, of course I'll do it, not realizing the

686
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 2: weight that it held for her, and her not realizing

687
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: for me that I actually didn't think that it was

688
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: much of It was a big deal, but not that

689
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: much of a big deal. And so the lack of

690
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: awareness of our yeah, our expectations of one another really

691
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: ended up making the relationship so much worse because we

692
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: hadn't clarified those expectations and we put different weights to

693
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: each other. We'd held each other in high regards in

694
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: some areas where maybe we weren't supposed to.

695
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: And so what you said really hit.

696
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: Me because I was like, yeah, I think our expectations

697
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: would just have the right expectations of the level that

698
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: you're at with each person, and that makes such a

699
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 2: difference to make all the terrifying relationships.

700
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with dating sometimes even in our family relationships,

701
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we can't categorize them as like best sister

702
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: or association. Yes, but you know, I think just being

703
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: aware that all relationships aren't deeply connected. Some relationships are

704
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: just connection, right, and that's it. Like we you know,

705
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: we see each other on holidays and that's fine, and

706
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: everybody everything doesn't have to be close. And if the

707
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: expectation is that you will be disappointed.

708
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's such a good point that I

709
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: needed to hear, and I'm sure many other people needed

710
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: to hear. I feel like a lot of the time

711
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: you expect when you have a friend that they're going

712
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: to meet every part of what you require a friendship

713
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: to be. They're going to fulfill that. It's like, I

714
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: really feel like this person's going to be my best friend.

715
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: And then as you grow up, you realize you just

716
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: have different people for different things, and each person holds

717
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: You can have a different type of expectation for each person,

718
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: but not all your expectations on one person. It's whether

719
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: it's a friend, whether it's a partner, whether it's your mom.

720
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: It's really difficult for that person to hold that weight

721
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: of all your expectations and for you to expect that

722
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: person to have that for you.

723
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we have to, you know, in

724
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: align with what you're saying, we have to go to

725
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: the right person for the right thing. And you know,

726
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: if I'm having a work issue, I'm an entrepreneur, I

727
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: want to talk to my other entrepreneur friends. Yeah, I

728
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: don't want to talk to my corporate friends about it

729
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: because their situations in life are different. It's not that

730
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm hiding information. It's just like, I think what we're

731
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: talking about is you need to having people who work

732
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: with you and these sources of things. So I want

733
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: to talk to a person who I know have had

734
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: similar experiences because I'm trying to work through mine. Yep.

735
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, having different people in different ways is really

736
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: important because I've been in conversations with people where someone

737
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: is talking to you about a thing and it's like

738
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say. Yeah, yeah, I'm

739
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: not the right passion for this. This is I cannot

740
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: help you with your taxi. I don't even know how

741
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: we got here of Have you looked at AG and

742
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: R block, Yeah yeah it was. Yeah, I've been in

743
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: that situations for sure.

744
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, it might not be the bright passion, but

745
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 2: I can direct you towards the right person.

746
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like legal issues, I've had people be like, man,

747
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: what do you think about this custody of I don't know,

748
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: like a two three two, I don't know. I don't

749
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: even know what the thing is like. Have you talked

750
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: to an attorney? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm not the person

751
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 1: to help with custody arrangements, So yeah, I think it's

752
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: in our interest sometimes to even redirect people when we

753
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: find that, whether it's they need a level of expertise

754
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: or they're fixated on a topic. Because sometimes you know,

755
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: we want to be available, we want our friends to

756
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: come to us in crisis. But if we notice, wow,

757
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: you've talked about the same thing in the same way

758
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: for six months, I don't feel like our conversations are

759
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: moving the needle. Have you thought about talking to maybe

760
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: a therapist, or have you mentioned this to your therapist

761
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: directing them to the right play. Yeah, because we don't

762
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: want to be the container for all that stuff. It

763
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: can become too heavy. Yeah, it could become too heavy,

764
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: And then that's when you start avoiding their cause you

765
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: don't want to be like, I am so tired of

766
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: hearing this thing. You don't want that.

767
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: No. Yeah, you talk about isolation and solitude, and I

768
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 2: really loved the difference that you shed between the two

769
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: of you know, isolation being kind of avoiding things and

770
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: so being a place of power and strength. Would you

771
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: eleperate on a little bit and when and how you

772
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: can differentiate between the two.

773
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like isolation is going inward, but in

774
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: a dark space. I think it's it's a dark space

775
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: of you going inWORD, not an act of joy, not

776
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: anything to rejuvenate, not to gain clarity, but just to

777
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: be away from yep. And we have to be careful

778
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: of that because when we see isolation, it intensifies loneliness.

779
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: It is you know a huge culprit of depression, of anxiety,

780
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: of other psychological issues. When you think about isolation, that's

781
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: what they use to punish people, right, sending them off

782
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: by themselves. Yep. And if you do that enough, you know,

783
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: people start talking to themselves and making up stories and

784
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: you know, all sorts of things. So it's a it

785
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: can be a punitive experience that we put on ourselves

786
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: versus solitude where we're exploring, we are recharging, we are

787
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: energetically connecting in another way without people, but we are

788
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: still welcome, welcoming them in some sort of fashion.

789
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 2: That's such a beautiful way to differentiate the two. I

790
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 2: wanted to switch back to relationships a little bit because

791
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: you talk about the one in your book and how

792
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: people talk about the one. There's that one person that

793
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: you just fall in love with and that's the only

794
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: person that you're get in love for the rest of

795
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: your life. Give me your insight to that, because I

796
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 2: really appreciated that part of your book.

797
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I hear about the one, sometimes it's a

798
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: person who is not the best for us. And I

799
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: see people struggling to make something work that is not

800
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: working because they have identified this person and as having

801
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: these special qualities, this connection that they've never had before.

802
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: There is some some deeper thing there, and I think

803
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: there are people that you can be compatible with. And

804
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: if you say that this person is the one, I

805
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: think you will do everything in your power to try

806
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: to make it work. Even if it's not working. It

807
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: could be a bad relationship and you're like, but this

808
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: is my person. They are not treating you like their person. Yep.

809
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: This is a one sided experience of you seeing something

810
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: special here and them not really reciprocating in that way.

811
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the one doesn't exist. What I'm saying

812
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: is you have to question the experience of being with

813
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: the one. If this is an unhealthy interaction. Maybe this

814
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: was one of the ones. This is one of the ones,

815
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: be another one. You got your ones mixed up? Yeah,

816
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: you may need to keep counting to the ones because

817
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: this one is not working. And that's okay for us

818
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 1: to really want, you know, this, this thing with a person,

819
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: and it and not be the time. You know what

820
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: I say to people sometimes when they're like, this is

821
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: the one, Maybe it is, but not right now. There

822
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: are tons of people who come back together when they're

823
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: sixty five, yeah, and you're twenty two. Yeah, this might

824
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: be the one in retirement, but right now they're wreaking havoc.

825
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: They got to learn a lot of other stuff in

826
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: the world before they can even come be the one.

827
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: This may not be the time. Maybe they are. I

828
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what the universe has for you.

829
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: But today this is the two, right, it's not the one.

830
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 2: It's almost like you have to break down your own expectations. Yes,

831
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: there's one thing about having expectations that other people, but

832
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 2: when you've built up these expectations in your own mind,

833
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: you feel like you're disappointing yourself by not allowing, by

834
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: not by breaking that. It's it's breaking your expectations that

835
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: you had of that relationship, of the life that you

836
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: were going to have, of all the little ideas that

837
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 2: you've created.

838
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: In your mind, and then you have to reframe all

839
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: of that.

840
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

841
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: Love can be blinding. Yeah, it can really be blinding,

842
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: and we can like lose our minds in some of

843
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 1: the things. Because when you talk to people after they're

844
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: out of relationships, it's like and I saw this, and

845
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: I saw that. Yeah, the clarity comes after I saw that.

846
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: It's it's it. It literally just like disrupts whatever our

847
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,959
Speaker 1: natural flowy is. And we can really ignore a lot

848
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: of things that are not hidden. Yeah, so we have

849
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: to be aware of that that maybe there's something here

850
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying.

851
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: Okay, So now I was how we want a healthy, wonderful,

852
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: not codependent relationship. Looks like a healthy dependency in a relationship.

853
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 2: How can you notice that day to day? What does

854
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: it feel like for someone.

855
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: On a day to day basis? It is give and take.

856
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: It is healthy communication with people. So that might look

857
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: like if someone texts you, you read the text or

858
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 1: you let them know, like, hey, you know, I saw

859
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: your text yesterday, couldn't get to it. But here's the answer.

860
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: You know, you're recognizing that people matter in your life.

861
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: You have several friends, and you have you know, maybe

862
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 1: some family and a partner, Like you have a robust system.

863
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: You are a villager. Not just in the village. You

864
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: are helping as well. And I think communication skills matter.

865
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: There are so many relationships that end because we did

866
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: not communicate properly. I was speaking with someone earlier about

867
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: getting invice and just not responding to them. How often

868
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: that ends relationships when you could just communicate, Hey, I

869
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: see the date, I won't be available, so true, Like

870
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: that's it. Did you lose a friend because you never

871
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: said anything or you said you would go and you

872
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: didn't show up? Like that feels a way to people.

873
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: So just saying like hey, I'm not going to be

874
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: able to make it. I know it's the last minute,

875
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: something came up, I have a stomach bug or whatever

876
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: it is. You know, letting people know that things have

877
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: shifted so that open communication is healthy dependency in your

878
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: relationships and it's important. It makes all the difference.

879
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it sounds so simple, and yet we make

880
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: it more complicated by not doing it.

881
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: People don't do it.

882
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, And what about doing conflict? So you know,

883
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 2: obviously every relationship we're gonna have some sort of conflict.

884
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: What is a healthy way to if you're trying to

885
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: improve the way that you deal with conflict in a relationship.

886
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: What are some steps people can take if it gets

887
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: too heated, usually with arguments, and how can they reframe

888
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: that and reconnect in a way that makes conflicts a

889
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: little bit easier to manage?

890
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: So what I think about what is an argument? Sometimes

891
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: we think if somebody doesn't agree with me, I'm having

892
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: an argument. Well, you're having a conversation. Is a voice elevated?

893
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: Is there, you know, some sort of rude back and

894
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: forth or is it just a conversation about a thing

895
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: you disagree about? So I think if we could reframe

896
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: the way we think about conflict and arguing, we can

897
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: have it more. And one of the things, if we

898
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: could talk about things sooner and not let them faster,

899
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: we don't even have to get to the arguments. If

900
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: we could say the first or second time of something happening. Hey,

901
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: you know, the other day I noticed this thing and

902
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: just have a conversation about that. With our calm voice,

903
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: we can prevent a lot of the conflict. And conflict

904
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: is healthy for relationships. It's how we get to know people.

905
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: It's how we start to understand how they operate, how

906
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: they think, what we need, things we need to work

907
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: on when we get upset, because sometimes we don't know

908
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: until we're in conflict. So a conflict free relationship isn't

909
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: healthy because that means you don't talk about anything. Yeah,

910
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: so some conflict is good. That's good for the relationship.

911
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: I was saying a couple once and one of the

912
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: folks said, gosh, you must get tired of us. Every

913
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: week we come here and we argue about something. And

914
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: I said, you always talk about something different though you're

915
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: not arguing about the same thing. You're a couple who

916
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: just moved in together, so a lot of this stuff

917
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: is like you learning how to live together. If you

918
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: argued about the same thing every week, I would be concerned.

919
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: This is an ongoing argument. I'm not concerned because it

920
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: seems like we talk about it, you work through it,

921
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: and something else comes up. This is a new situation

922
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: that's going to have in for a few weeks. That's

923
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: why they say the first year of marriage is the

924
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: hardest because you're living with the person and you're discovering

925
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: they do not put a cap on their toothpaste.

926
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: What I did disciple that person lives like this, right,

927
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: And so you're discovering all these They just take their

928
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,439
Speaker 2: socks off, they just put them on the floor.

929
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: Who does that?

930
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: You know?

931
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: And so every week it's something different, this person who

932
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: was just like so perfect. It's like and they leave

933
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: hair in the sink, you know, it's it's it's on

934
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: and on and on. But you're learning how to live

935
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: with a person. Okay, I'm living with someone else. Let

936
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 1: me get my hair out the sink, let me throw

937
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: my socks in the basket. Or maybe your partner says,

938
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna talk about this. I'm gonna just

939
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: pick them up and throw them in a basket. Yeah,

940
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: you're figuring things out. That's conflict and that's actually healthy.

941
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 2: What do you think is the main message you want

942
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: people to really take away from your book? If there's

943
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: one thing that you want them to take away to

944
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: enhunt their life in some way, what do you feel

945
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 2: like that would be.

946
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: Being with other peop people is important, and we have

947
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to hold our boundaries to

948
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: being being healing mode to work on ourselves while working

949
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: with other people and their stuff. And I'm not talking

950
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: about toxic stuff. I don't want. I don't want people

951
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: to say, oh yeah, accept abuse. No, I'm not talking

952
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: about abuse, neglect and those sorts of things. I'm talking

953
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: about somebody being routine annoying in a relationship. Relationships should

954
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: annoy us. Sometimes they should cause us to have, you know,

955
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: a moment where it's inconvenient. Things happen for people and

956
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: things happen for us, and so just having the flexibility

957
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: around being in relationships is important right now. Thank you.

958
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: That's so wonderful, Nata, thank you so much for coming on.

959
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: This is such a wonderful conversation.

960
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 2: I think it's going to hopefully help so many people

961
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: reconnect and create deeper, more meaningful relationships. Everybody, go out

962
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: there and grab the balancing act creating healthy dependency and

963
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: connection without losing yourself. Another best selling book, I'm sure

964
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: from Nedra.

965
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: Thank you again. Thanks so wonderful.