1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to

2
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,520
Speaker 1: you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening

3
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,080
Speaker 1: and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot

4
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.

5
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,600
Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

6
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts.

7
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,560
Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised.

8
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Talking to Death. I'm Dylan Harrington, producer

9
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 2: of the show. On today's episode, we are continuing our

10
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,159
Speaker 2: conversations from Crime Con and today's guest. If you're a

11
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,520
Speaker 2: fan of true crime or you're a fan of crime TV,

12
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,319
Speaker 2: you'll know the name Chris Hansen. Chris Hansen is an

13
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,839
Speaker 2: investigative journalist, most well known for his hit show To

14
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 2: Catch a Predator. I grew up with it. I know,

15
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,040
Speaker 2: Pain and Mike did. I'm sure a lot of you

16
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 2: did as well. Chris has done a ton of work

17
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 2: to clean up the streets, both figuratively and literally. In

18
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 2: his career, He's been responsible for putting hundreds of pedophiles

19
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 2: behind bars. Pain had an opportunity I need to be

20
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 2: on stage with Chris and they had a really great conversation.

21
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,760
Speaker 2: Chris opened up about some of his most compelling investigations,

22
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 2: the ethical dilemmas of undercover journalism, and they talk about

23
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 2: the evolving landscape of online crime and how it's portrayed

24
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 2: on social media. Both Pain and Chris also talk about

25
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 2: investigative journalism and the strides that each of them have

26
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 2: made to put criminals behind bars. It's a fascinating conversation

27
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 2: when you definitely don't want to miss. It's funny, it's insightful,

28
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 2: and toward the end of the conversation, Chris and Pain

29
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,960
Speaker 2: both take questions from the audience. So let's jump right

30
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 2: into it. Today's guest is Chris Hansen.

31
00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: Seek Chris, I'm sorry, I thought that was gonna be

32
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 1: so funny if I could just get.

33
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 3: He's busier than me, you got to get up early

34
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,440
Speaker 3: in the mornings.

35
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,240
Speaker 1: Clearly he's a nice guy. But yeah, I just I've

36
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 1: watched so many of your videos and I want to

37
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 1: know what keeps you ticking, because it isn't easy to

38
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 1: go and stake out and deal with these people, and

39
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 1: it's got to be scary. A lot of elements, like

40
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 1: outside of the good that you're doing as a human

41
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 1: being who has a life, has a wife, Like how

42
00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: do you keep doing it man, and what keeps you ticking?

43
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm a curious guy and I have

44
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 4: a lot of energy, and we do a lot of

45
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 4: different projects, right, So it's not all the.

46
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:52,919
Speaker 3: Takedown predator investigations.

47
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 4: You know, we'll be in San Francisco investigating the illegal

48
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,799
Speaker 4: hunter and immigrants bringing fentanyl in and making millions of

49
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 4: and shipping it back to build mansions in their homeland.

50
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 4: So I get to do a lot of different documentaries

51
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 4: and a lot of them well they're all crime r

52
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 4: one way or another. But intellectually it's very engaging to

53
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 4: me to delve into all these different subjects. And I've

54
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 4: just accepted the mantle of the predator investigations as something

55
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,000
Speaker 4: that I will always do as long as I am

56
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 4: in this business because it is what people expect from me.

57
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 4: It's something I believe that's important to continue to create

58
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 4: awareness in a dialogue, to remind parents and kids that

59
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,360
Speaker 4: this can be out there and that this is a

60
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 4: constantly evolving crime which requires constantly reviewing and reporting on.

61
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 3: It because it does change.

62
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 4: It's very different than when I started twenty years ago,

63
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 4: and not just because my hair is gray now and

64
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,440
Speaker 4: it wasn't what I.

65
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 3: Started, well, it's always been great for the last five years.

66
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean you pull off so well. I couldn't tell.

67
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm grand too.

68
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:04,200
Speaker 5: So.

69
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 3: Us is by design.

70
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure you put a little design here.

71
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 3: You got to take the brass oness. But no, so

72
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,160
Speaker 3: I've accepted that long time ago.

73
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 4: Look, the truth is, in the very beginning, there were

74
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 4: people who turned their nose up at this particular franchise

75
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 4: because it was different, it was edgy.

76
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,040
Speaker 3: We worked closely ultimately with law enforcement, and it was different. Yeah,

77
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 3: and we took some heat for that.

78
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 1: And I like in the view of like this is.

79
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 4: Traditional, not so much that, but traditional journalists were like,

80
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,320
Speaker 4: this is different, this is scary.

81
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 3: This has become a part of pop culture.

82
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 4: And I can't help that it became a part of

83
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 4: pop culture. I can't control if South Park does a parody.

84
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,680
Speaker 3: Of Chris Hansen and the Pier Investigation. You can't.

85
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 4: So you can either be afraid of it or you

86
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 4: can embrace it for all the good that it carries.

87
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 3: With it, which it does.

88
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 4: And now we're in the third generation of people who

89
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 4: follow this content from the beginning to the work that

90
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 4: we do today at True Blue by streaming Crime Network.

91
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 4: And the beauty of having your own network is that

92
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 4: I don't have to sit in a meetings and b

93
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,839
Speaker 4: meetings and green light meetings. I make one phone call

94
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 4: to our headquarters in Cleveland, and I could dispatch crews

95
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 4: around the world and do whatever story I want to

96
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,480
Speaker 4: do and own the content and own the distribution of

97
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 4: the content. Finally, so we have it on True Blue,

98
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 4: which we own, We put it on Fox News, we

99
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 4: put it on Fox Nation.

100
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 3: Ultimately some of these documentaries, we hope.

101
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 4: And so we have these multiple platforms along with what

102
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 4: we do on social media.

103
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,840
Speaker 3: So it doesn't get any better than that for a.

104
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,760
Speaker 4: Guy at my stage of this business and in my

105
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,680
Speaker 4: evolution in this business, I mean.

106
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,839
Speaker 1: Forty two years, it's like, let the guy do his thing, right. Yeah,

107
00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 1: it's amazing how much, But it's you.

108
00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,560
Speaker 4: Know, I have to give props to the network because

109
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 4: you know, without twenty one years at NBC and doing

110
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 4: Crimewatch daily and local news, I wouldn't have the platform,

111
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 4: the identity, the brand, yes to do this and all

112
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,600
Speaker 4: those experiences you know, working for the man if you will,

113
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 4: you know, yes.

114
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 3: That gives me.

115
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 4: Well, it was great, you know, but it just again,

116
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 4: it's part of my evolution as well.

117
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: Why do you think that there are so many predators

118
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 1: like that? And I mean specifically pedophiles, and in forty

119
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 1: two years you seem to think that maybe it's even

120
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 1: gotten worse in some way. And so from a psychological standpoint,

121
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 1: just from what you've seen, you know, and half these

122
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 1: people look kind of normal when you're just seeing on

123
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,039
Speaker 1: the surface, right, So what's your take on that?

124
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 4: My take is it's the availability, right, It's there are

125
00:06:59,160 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 4: thirty of these.

126
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 3: Guys who are hardcore predators, pedophiles who do this with

127
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 3: or without the Internet. They'd be the bad coach, the

128
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 3: bad step dad.

129
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 4: Guy hanging out lurking around the food court of them

130
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 4: all that you're never going to get rid of that.

131
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 3: And then you've got a younger.

132
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:21,239
Speaker 4: Group who's so immersed in digital culture that they've become

133
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 4: four chan, eight chan kind of all that, all that stuff,

134
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 4: and they don't they wouldn't say things in real life

135
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,160
Speaker 4: that they say online, and they blur this this age difference.

136
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 4: So you got a twenty one year old talking to

137
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 4: somebody that they think is a thirteen year old and

138
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 4: they think, well, it's only seven years.

139
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 3: You know, it's Romeo and Juliet, and.

140
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 4: They justify it, and then they come for it because

141
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,239
Speaker 4: they don't have the ability to speak to somebody in person.

142
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 3: And that's bad, that's horrible.

143
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 4: I don't think there's a big difference in terms of

144
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 4: criminal impact. Sure, between a twenty one year old and

145
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,920
Speaker 4: a sixty one year old, it's the same crime.

146
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 3: You're an adult, but you can understand it better. Then

147
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,160
Speaker 3: there's this guy in between, this third category.

148
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 4: The doctor we caught, you know, sixty one year old

149
00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 4: guy well Off drives his range rover over to have

150
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 4: sex with a teenage girl after communicating with her while

151
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 4: he sees eighteen patients in his practice. You know, we

152
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 4: saw that, and the guy gets caught, and he ultimately

153
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 4: sat down to do a long interview with me.

154
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 3: It's not true blue now, but.

155
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 4: What he said, he said he had a sickness, he

156
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,680
Speaker 4: was addicted to porn. He really didn't care that the

157
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 4: girl was under age. He was just looking for any

158
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 4: kind of sex he could find, and he found this girl. Now,

159
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 4: I'm sure he's shaded this.

160
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: That sounds like he's he's glossing it over, for sure.

161
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 4: But he also did not have any evidence of child

162
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 4: porn or any previous arrests of doing this. He admitted

163
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 4: to online prostitution and engaging in call girl services, but

164
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,240
Speaker 4: there was no evidence that he had gone under age before,

165
00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 4: and so a judge took that into consideration when he

166
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,679
Speaker 4: sentenced him to probation. And he had already in registration

167
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 4: as a sex offender, and he'd already lost his practice,

168
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 4: and you know, you know, had serious probert almost with

169
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 4: his family as you would expect. But there's a guy

170
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,520
Speaker 4: who can, probably with treatment, not only not reoffend, but

171
00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 4: go out and tell other people on the verge of offending,

172
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:11,880
Speaker 4: don't do this.

173
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. And I know that we have been

174
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 3: a deterrent with these investigations, and might I think guys

175
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 3: are afraid.

176
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 4: Guys have become aware of their own, you know, weaknesses

177
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 4: and their own flaws. And I get letters from the

178
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,559
Speaker 4: podcast listeners all the time from guys who say, look,

179
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 4: I am inclined to be sexually attracted to minors. I

180
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 4: know that's wrong. I don't act on it. I go

181
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,360
Speaker 4: to therapy every week. My partner knows this and is supportive,

182
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,439
Speaker 4: and I know I'm not going to offend.

183
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: But when you read that.

184
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,840
Speaker 4: What do you think it's it's it's it's a little creepy,

185
00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 4: to be honest with you.

186
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 3: It's I think it's brave on their parts. Do it?

187
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 3: They always do it? You know? He said, I know

188
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 3: you can find out.

189
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 1: About killing somebody, and I didn't and said, okay, well

190
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,960
Speaker 1: let's let's let's not kill that person right.

191
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,439
Speaker 3: Right, and maybe we can write exactly.

192
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,800
Speaker 4: And they're very reticent to come on the show because

193
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 4: they don't want to be identified, but I do share

194
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 4: the letters.

195
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 3: With my listeners on the podcast. Interesting.

196
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's it's important because anything that takes

197
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 4: you inside the mind of a predator, whether it's you know,

198
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 4: the predators and our takedown investigations or you know, other

199
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 4: predatory crimes, the more you understand that mindset, the better

200
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 4: you can protect all of you, all.

201
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,000
Speaker 3: Of us from becoming victims of crimes.

202
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 4: And so I think it's an important understanding, And every

203
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 4: time I do it, we dig a little deeper into

204
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,880
Speaker 4: the different personas these guys represent.

205
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: What kind of predators are there out there?

206
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 3: To you? Well, I think any predator who tries to

207
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 3: violate a.

208
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,280
Speaker 4: Child is the worst of them all. But in our

209
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 4: sextortion and investigation. We talked about this on Friday at

210
00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 4: our session, and we've got a big documentary going out

211
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 4: about this. We've got guys in Nigeria who are con artists.

212
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 3: Who poses teenage girls. They have pretty pictures.

213
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,320
Speaker 4: They target young men fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you know, young

214
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 4: men or young men, and they send one of these

215
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,559
Speaker 4: hot girl pictures and ask for one of the boy

216
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 4: he sends it.

217
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 3: Then they start the extortion.

218
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 4: They demand money and they get caught up in this

219
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 4: and these kids sadly don't see a way out, and

220
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,520
Speaker 4: in many cases, sadly they commit suicide.

221
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 3: And I've sat over the last year with four.

222
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:41,960
Speaker 4: Different sets of parents Northern Michigan, California, South Carolina, Ohio

223
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:49,080
Speaker 4: who lost a good kid, athlete, good grades, getting ready

224
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 4: to go off to college, to suicide because they couldn't

225
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,440
Speaker 4: see their way out of this.

226
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,280
Speaker 3: Short term situation.

227
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 4: And it's as if a guy in Nigeria came all

228
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 4: the way into market at Michigan, came through an unlocked

229
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 4: door at a nice family house and.

230
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 3: Killed this kid. That's what this is.

231
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 4: But because it's so far away, they don't often get

232
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,560
Speaker 4: prosecuted in this case for the first time I'm aware of.

233
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,839
Speaker 4: They were able to go over there, find three guys,

234
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 4: bring them back to the United States, and they pleaded guilty.

235
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 3: In their prison.

236
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,400
Speaker 1: Right now, I know, good jobbing then, but this guy.

237
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,440
Speaker 4: It all comes down to, you know, if you ask

238
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,959
Speaker 4: any one of those parents, and I spent and it's

239
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,679
Speaker 4: heartbreaking paid to sit in the home with these parents.

240
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 4: Were their son, who's just like one of my sons, right,

241
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 4: just made a mistake and got caught up in this

242
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 4: is because these guys preyed upon them and knew how

243
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 4: to push the buttons. And this poor mother and father

244
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 4: have to do this and do this interview down the

245
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,320
Speaker 4: hall from the room where it happened. And I looked

246
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 4: at these parents. I said, I, you know, I got

247
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 4: to tell you I'm a tough guy, but I don't

248
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,319
Speaker 4: know that I could survive this the way you survived it.

249
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 3: And it really, I mean, it's from parent to parents.

250
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 3: Suddenly you're not the.

251
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,200
Speaker 4: Journalists so much as you are as a fellow parent,

252
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 4: you know, and Johnshall tell you about that like.

253
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 1: Kids like does that has that changed your viewpoint?

254
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 4: I think it's it's given me a greater understanding And

255
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 4: what is that and what is it? Because you understand

256
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 4: the kids can screw up, and you understand that you

257
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 4: have to tell them that you know they're going to

258
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 4: mess up, and in first and foremost, you need to

259
00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 4: come to me and let's work on this together. If

260
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,400
Speaker 4: any of these kids, these four kids we profile had

261
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 4: come to their dad and say, hey, look, I'm paris

262
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 4: to tell you this. I sent some pictures of my

263
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 4: junk and I don't I'm worried Granma's going to see

264
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,199
Speaker 4: them because the're gona send them money, you know, you knucklehead,

265
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 4: don't do it again.

266
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,120
Speaker 3: Send yeah, save the text, give them to the local

267
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,199
Speaker 3: sheriff's department, the local peace department.

268
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,079
Speaker 4: And don't give them any more money. Just stop talking

269
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,200
Speaker 4: to him, and in two weeks this whole thing is over.

270
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 3: It's we're going to tease you about it at Thanksgiving

271
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 3: dinner when you're thirty. Yeah, because you did something sad

272
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 3: it's a non event.

273
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,719
Speaker 4: But in the moment of an underdeveloped adolescent's brain, they

274
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:11,320
Speaker 4: don't get that.

275
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 1: So we yeah, we see these parents and like you

276
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,559
Speaker 1: you can see your son or something in this city.

277
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 3: Are all good kids. They're handsome kids. They look like

278
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 3: what are my kids.

279
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it just it really, but if it impacts

280
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 4: the way you tell the story, and if you can

281
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 4: put that emotion along with the intellectual integrity into it,

282
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 4: you can get people's attention. And if you save one kid,

283
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 4: you win, right, if you save a thousand kids, you.

284
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 3: Change the world.

285
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 4: So what do you tell to parents like that? You

286
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 4: gotta have the discussion. The same thing I tell when

287
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 4: it comes to, you know, online safety, when when your

288
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 4: son or daughter first goes on the internet, you have

289
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 4: to have an age appropriate conversation about the potential dangers.

290
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 4: And it starts very simply with there are grown ups

291
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 4: out there who like to trick kids.

292
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 3: Kids don't like to be tricked.

293
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,880
Speaker 4: So, you know, unless you know that person in real life,

294
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 4: you don't know whether it's a grown up. You know,

295
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 4: some fifty five year old fat guy down in his

296
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 4: basement in his underwear, right, you know, the worst surrounded

297
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 4: by pizza boxes. You know, you don't know that it's

298
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 4: and this stuff happens, you know, but you got it.

299
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: That's what I always picture they are.

300
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, well and you should because nine out of ten

301
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 4: times that's exactly right.

302
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 3: But you got to you got to.

303
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 4: Reach them in a non intimidating creer. You can't just

304
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 4: yell at them and scare them. And you know, the

305
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,600
Speaker 4: whole thing I thought, you parent, you trick them into

306
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,680
Speaker 4: doing what you want them to do and make them

307
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 4: think it's their idea, you know.

308
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 3: Right, that's kind of the basic rule I think.

309
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I was joking outside before in the green

310
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 1: room before you got in here, when we're putting these

311
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 1: mics on, I was like, how many times did you

312
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 1: put you put this mic on? Is kind of how

313
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: to do this? And like I joked like probably one

314
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, where I was like, probably like a million,

315
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I probably understand it.

316
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 3: You know.

317
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 4: You know, We've been blessed have done some really heavy

318
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 4: duty stories around the world over the years, and two

319
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,160
Speaker 4: that stick out our child slave labor and the soap

320
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 4: business in India where we went under cover with business

321
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 4: people and went to China to do counterfeit medicines and

322
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 4: did the whole thing. And in China they don't have

323
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 4: the same open mindedness about journalists that we know. So yeah,

324
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 4: so I can't go back because I'm on a list.

325
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 4: We went as executives of ge.

326
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 3: Being exactly, but we you know, we uncovered it.

327
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 4: We had set up what would have been a ten

328
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 4: million dollar buy of you know, fake.

329
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 3: Vire ever and some people went to prison in China.

330
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 4: But we were in Cambodia doing a story on underage

331
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 4: brothels and Americans, so Western Europeans going them sex tourism essentially, and.

332
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 3: We were all wired up and taped up. And you know,

333
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,359
Speaker 3: it's hard to get help right away in India or Cambodia.

334
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: They'll get you out, yeah, but it's not like yeah,

335
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: serriffs down the street ready.

336
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 3: And right thought, hey, I need to right over here.

337
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 4: And you know it's a little more intense when you

338
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 4: go over there and have to imagine it's.

339
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 3: It's quite an experience. And it prepared me for the

340
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 3: predator stuff.

341
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: You know, at the end of how many predators do

342
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: you think that you have caught? I think were there

343
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 1: any predators like left that you think you need to catch.

344
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 3: We'll find out in the next.

345
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 4: Couple of weeks because we'll be back out there. But

346
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 4: I would say we're around six hundred six hundred in

347
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 4: the predator investigations. And you know, the way we do it,

348
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,680
Speaker 4: and because we've evolved to continue to collaborate with law

349
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 4: enforcement to make sure these cases are very well prosecutable,

350
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,679
Speaker 4: and we've got to be at a ninety five success

351
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 4: rate prosecution wise.

352
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,880
Speaker 1: Do you think that you are the best predator catcher?

353
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 3: I think so there is I do too.

354
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: You've done so much good work with this and that

355
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: it's it's created this sort of way where I was

356
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: going through Instagram, I was like, is he with Jake

357
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 1: paul Ers and Logan Paul I'm like that. I was

358
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 1: like I felt like I was in like the matrix

359
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 1: or something.

360
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 3: Well, Logan's a great guy, you know.

361
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 4: He he had reached out and it was before his

362
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 4: fight with Dylan Danis and Dannis was trolling and that

363
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 4: was like pardon to.

364
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 3: Be and he said, hey, I got this crazy idea.

365
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 4: Would you come to Manchester, England where I love this

366
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,159
Speaker 4: and we're going to do the news conference and I'm

367
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 4: going to say I'm going to take down this predator

368
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 4: in the ring. And Dannis was really trolling the fiance

369
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 4: hard and heavy, inappropriately and potentially you know, gray area legality,

370
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 4: and so I'm going to introduce you as the you know,

371
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 4: the the most renowned predator catcher and he's going to

372
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 4: help me take this down. So We're in Manchester and

373
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 4: I'm wearing my true blue hoodie with all the cure on,

374
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 4: just promoting, you know, shamelessly or network, and I will.

375
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 1: Go cool, look like a superhero.

376
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 6: Yeah.

377
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 3: I walk out there and I got cruise there.

378
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 4: The whole team went, and Dannis is like, because he's

379
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 4: talking smack you know this whole time He's like and.

380
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 3: He's like, is that an actor? Is that really? Christians

381
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 3: going to need you to have a seat right over there,

382
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 3: slack jaw.

383
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 4: His team was ultimately cool with me, you know, but

384
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 4: but they were kind of scared for a second. Well, yeah,

385
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 4: they were stun and it was brilliant on Logan's part.

386
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 4: I mean, look, the Paul brothers are like you. They

387
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 4: understand like me because they understand, they understand that they

388
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 4: understand this world, this media.

389
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 3: You know, in a good rush, you get it.

390
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 1: You know, you get it at a.

391
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 3: Level much higher than a lot of your period, you know.

392
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they did.

393
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 3: It, they killed that.

394
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 1: They were great at that. Yeah, I would like to

395
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: know as an investigative journalist, you know, so much has

396
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 1: changed in the true crime space since you first started.

397
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: I think that you're one of the originators of like

398
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: you were even saying, like when you first came out,

399
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 1: you were getting pushed back like this isn't traditional news,

400
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: and you know you kind of ruffle the feathers, breaking

401
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: the mold. And now that's like you kept doing that

402
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 1: and you you helped normalize that, and you know, I

403
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: look at that and the grant seame of things you

404
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: go back to you and then to podcasting, and there's

405
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: just been iterations of this. You know, when I first

406
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 1: made up and vanished, you know, I got shipped for

407
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: being the guy who shouldn't be doing this, and.

408
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 3: Now like, what's your pedigree?

409
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like I don't have one.

410
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: Why not mean? Right?

411
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: But now that's like a trope. It's like that's like

412
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: a job if you you know, fail college. Why I

413
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: always I could be a true crime podcaster. I guess right,

414
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, what did it get there? But

415
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: I want to know your thoughts on just the evolution

416
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: of everything and where you think you should go next

417
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: as someone who I think has laid the foundation and

418
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: done it right.

419
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's a great question, and I think

420
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 4: you know, we'll continue or we should continue to exploit

421
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 4: When I say exploit, I mean in a good way

422
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 4: the technology that is out there. Sure, And look, we're

423
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 4: in an industry that is largely self regulated, right, and

424
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 4: so it's very important for us to hold high ethical

425
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 4: standards in terms of what we do. And I also

426
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 4: think it's critically important and we always did this and

427
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 4: continue to do it today in the predator investigations to

428
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 4: be painstakingly transparent about our methodology.

429
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: And I mean to to.

430
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 4: If you are and the listener need to know how

431
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 4: you get the information. They need to know the process

432
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 4: of your getting the information in.

433
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 3: How you distill it.

434
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 4: And as long as you're painfully transparent about your methodology,

435
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 4: you can never get yourself into trouble. You have and

436
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 4: then you also have this organic connection to your audience

437
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 4: that creates great loyalty and great man for the quality product.

438
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 4: And what makes me nervous about some of these vigilanti

439
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 4: predators out there today And I get asked about this

440
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 4: all the time, and I go on shows to talk

441
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 4: about it. You know, you got somebody who finds a

442
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 4: bad guy and they catch them, They catch them, you know,

443
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 4: having lunch with the teenage girls under age and they're

444
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 4: in a prominent position in Hollywood, and instead of creating

445
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 4: the situation that would lead to an effective prosecution of

446
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 4: potentially a bad guy, they're out there shooting with smoke

447
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 4: cannons and doing goofy stuff and committing crimes themselves for

448
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 4: which they could be prosecuted. And any chance of getting

449
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 4: evidence on this bad guy is out the window. There's

450
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 4: no chance of getting a warrant from his computer or

451
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 4: his phone to see if he's done this before, to

452
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: get the transcripts. They're out there to create clicks and

453
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 4: clout and create a dramatic situation and damages the credibility

454
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: of other people who are doing it properly. And there's

455
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 4: a lot of room in our society for citizen journalists.

456
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: Right. Any crimes have been crowdsourced and solved because of podcasts.

457
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 4: Right, everybody, he should have a voice, and YouTube and

458
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 4: other platforms have greatly democratized our media. It's changed the world.

459
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 4: But you also have to remember that every any jerk

460
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 4: can get on and say whatever they want, and some

461
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,239
Speaker 4: of them, Alex Jones, will say outrageous things that are

462
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 4: untrue and hurtful and and and that is why the

463
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 4: rest of us who don't do that stuff. Need to

464
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 4: be self regulating and make sure that we on our

465
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 4: own create ethical standards that.

466
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: You know, produce truthful.

467
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 4: Content, meaningful content. It could be edgy, it can be controversial,

468
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 4: but I think it already is by nature, right.

469
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: It's it's already cool what we do. We don't have

470
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: to over dramatics.

471
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: You're already catching bad guys.

472
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, let's just tell the truth about

473
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: it all. Yeah.

474
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: I did actually see a couple of YouTube and I

475
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: won't even name the YouTubers, but I've seen you know

476
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: what I'm talking.

477
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I remember.

478
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: Actually the other day I was watching I was like,

479
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: Chris Hansen would hate this.

480
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 3: Is what I was thinking of.

481
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 4: I was like, and you brought it up first from

482
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 4: like and every time I publicly about it, Yeah, yeah, crap,

483
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 4: And I know.

484
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: It's like no, It's like, yeah, I was like, he

485
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: would hate this.

486
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 3: I hate this.

487
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: I recently did something and one of my true crime

488
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: podcasts up in Vanish which the first one I had,

489
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: and it's season four, thank you, and there was there's

490
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: a bad guy and I had enough evidence, you know,

491
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: in my opinion to think that there was a high

492
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: chance that he was. He was involved in potentially a murder,

493
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: and he was hard to find. It's hard to track down,

494
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: and I spent months trying to narrowed down where he was.

495
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: Finally figured out where he was. And in order to

496
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: do that, I had I had catfished them. I had

497
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: created a fake Facebook account months prior, never thinking that

498
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: it actually would work or come into play. But because

499
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: I had made it so early on and I had

500
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: had this conversation kind of a little bit over time,

501
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: I think he believed it to be real, even though

502
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: he was a little bit dubious. And it happened in Alaska.

503
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: The laws in Alaska or that it's a one party state,

504
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: and so I was able to legally record him, and

505
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: it was in a public place, and I did something

506
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: I've never done before, and I was, you know, on

507
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the fence, ave ballot, you know, some of my team

508
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: that's in here. We debated for twenty four hours, like

509
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: do we do this, do we do that? Do we

510
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: just you know, tell him to go here and meet

511
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: this fake person? Then Paylands he shows up and I

512
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: was like, you know, like, this isn't the Chris Hanson

513
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: thing where you know they've already committed the crime. When

514
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: they get to you, right right exactly when I show up,

515
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: They're just gonna say fuck off.

516
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what do you do?

517
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, what am I doing this for?

518
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: Am I doing it to get that spicy SoundBite? Am

519
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: I doing it to get this podcast moment?

520
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: Which is okay?

521
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: Which is okay? But what's the next step?

522
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: Right?

523
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: What if I pretend to be this guy? And I did.

524
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: I pretended to be this fake person, and I mean

525
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: I didn't wear like a mustache or anything, but I

526
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: tried to blend in with Alaska, like you know, snow gear.

527
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: And we met this guy at a bar that we

528
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: had staked out for hours, and he came into our

529
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: trap and sure enough, he talked for about two hours

530
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: and everything he said made told everyone exactly who this

531
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: person wants.

532
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that is a totally legitimate method of investigative

533
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 4: reporting it.

534
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: And I've done it. I mean, we've set up businesses

535
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: to lure people in to get to the.

536
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 4: Truth, you know, with hidden cameras around and you know,

537
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: again not really disguised, but you know, with a ball

538
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 4: cap on and casual classes.

539
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, too much. I usually think it.

540
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 4: Made but that's and again it's about sharing with your audience.

541
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: This is what we did, this is why we did it,

542
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: and these are the results of what happened. And that's

543
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: totally legit. That's real investigative reporting, by the way. I

544
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 4: mean one hundred years ago, you know up in Saint

545
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 4: Clair wrote you know in the Jungle about the meatpacking

546
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: district in business, and he went and worked there, and

547
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's it's been going on a long time.

548
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: The Chicago sometimes.

549
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 4: Did a great series where they opened up a bar

550
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 4: and and they.

551
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 3: Captured all the bribe taking and everything that went along

552
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: with it.

553
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: That's how you get to the I think that people

554
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: do it less these days. I think they clicky and

555
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: so fast dateline.

556
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 4: You know, for years we would do that, and then

557
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 4: it became more of a murder procedural, which is great,

558
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 4: which I still want to show, want to show all

559
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 4: those guys are my friends. Yeah, of course, but that's

560
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 4: not what I wanted to do the last twenty years of.

561
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: My career, right.

562
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: So, like one of my fears going into it was

563
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: and like it'd be bigger for you, because I mean,

564
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: you're Chris Hansen and yeah, I feel like you're a

565
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: recognizable figure. But I was like, man, like broth, this

566
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: guy's like, holy shit, is this that Penguins? He could

567
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: you know? Like right away? I don't know. And it

568
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: made me think, you know, have you ever just been

569
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: like at like a library or bookstore and just you know,

570
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: bent down to get a book and you're next to

571
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: somebody and someone catches eyes and goes, holy shit, am

572
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: I about to get cat.

573
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 7: Why?

574
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: I think?

575
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: I don't know how many guys who've been nervous for

576
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: good reason and I haven't picked up on it, but.

577
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: It's happened, right, I'm sure that someone's creeping.

578
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 4: Up on somebody and you know they see it from

579
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 4: behind in a public place.

580
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 3: But it's it's.

581
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 4: I've been able to use that for my benefit because

582
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: we have asked to now though, right, yeah, we have

583
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 4: access to law enforcement and investigations because I've done this

584
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: for forty two years and never.

585
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 3: Burned its sores.

586
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 4: Right, nobody in law enforcement can ever say, right that

587
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: they told me something in confidence, And that's the way

588
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 4: to the right. It's currency in our business, yep. And

589
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 4: you know that because you practice it as well. But

590
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: you know you are your reputation professionally in this business,

591
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: and it continues to pay off in a great way

592
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 4: for me.

593
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: Just asking some personal advice. When I first started, you know,

594
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: I was absolutely nobody, and I was always able to

595
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: use exactly but I was able to use that to

596
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: my advantage, right, and that was you know, there's upside

597
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: to that. But once there is some sort of you know,

598
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: people know you as a little figure or it's it's

599
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: more likely that someone could recognize you in some sort

600
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: of way, you have to flip your method a little, right,

601
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: And so just advice from in your career. What have

602
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: you done so I can think about how I can

603
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: apply it to micros.

604
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 4: Well, I think as you become more well known, you

605
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: just have to shift your approach. Sure, I mean the

606
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: guy say you're Chris Hansen, use that to your advantage.

607
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 4: You're right, you're paying Chris Hanson. Yeah, motherfucking handso right?

608
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: And uh, and you know you just have to, you know,

609
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: be quick on your feet and use it to your advantage.

610
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: And again, the order you get in this business, the

611
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: more experience you have, the less you are in an

612
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 4: anxious rush to get it done.

613
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: I've got nothing but time. If this takes two days.

614
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: I've done got days exactly.

615
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's it's not Oh my god, I

616
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: get it. Get back by the five o'clock news.

617
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: Which was once the case, which also I think is

618
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: a tough place to tell good stories.

619
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 4: I mean again, I I can't say the Golden Age,

620
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: because every age is the Golden Age, but I mean

621
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 4: that being golden, yeah, exactly, and it is it is

622
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 4: for me too. But I remember being a young reporter

623
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 4: in Lansing, Michigan, and the largest walled prison in the

624
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: world was Jackson Prison. And there was a riot on

625
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 4: a Friday night, and young reporter out there covering it

626
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 4: and breathlessly coming to the set and we got all

627
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 4: this video. We're talking about it and everything else. And

628
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 4: I was working weekends at the time. It just barely

629
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 4: had graduated from Michigan's We're working TV ten Action News.

630
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: Nice yeah, NBC affiliate Lansing, Michigan.

631
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 4: And so we're literally sitting in the newsroom on a Sunday, Yeah,

632
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 4: drinking coffee, smoking cigarets.

633
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: This is, you know, nineteen eighty back when you do that.

634
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 4: Planes basically everywhere, I guess, the worst, the worst health

635
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: in the world and the phone rings in the newsroom.

636
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 4: No cell phones in those days, we didn't have pagers.

637
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: Phone.

638
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: Hey TV ten Action News. Chris Hansen was mister Hanson. Yes,

639
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 4: it was an inmate inside the prison two days after

640
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 4: the riot who said we've been given them from mission

641
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: to have a news conference. To Eric grievanceays, head to

642
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 4: Jackson Prison, all right, come on, we get our little yeah, yeah,

643
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: bring it. Everyone does is get our little TV ten

644
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 4: Action news you know, station, wagon off and go from

645
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: the Lansing bureau to Jackson, show up to let us

646
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 4: in the gate.

647
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: They go to the report to the office.

648
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: They bring us in, and the prison's like, you know,

649
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 4: sixty eighty years old. I mean, it's an old prison.

650
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: And we sit down a conference room and interview four

651
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 4: inmates and they tell us the story and I'm still

652
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 4: shre how the hell did this?

653
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: This went from having a good time to doing like the.

654
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: Biggest story on that day, and they still makes the

655
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: network news and obviously make big news locally. And that

656
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 4: following Tuesday, the riots jump off again and the place

657
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: is burning again.

658
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: Damn.

659
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: And they didn't let us in the second time. Okay, yeah,

660
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: but there was you know it was, you know, we

661
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: sort of were making it up as we went along.

662
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: Sure are you still doing that in a way?

663
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think very much.

664
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean, they have you learned from anything you've done,

665
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: But like.

666
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: It's all in the fault, you know.

667
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 4: You know, I'm fortunate enough to have a conversation like

668
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: this with somebody who's curious enough to ask these questions

669
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 4: that provoke good answers. You know, it brings back things

670
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 4: that you know, it's nothing different from what we do today.

671
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: It's just different technology, different tools, but it's the same attitude.

672
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 4: It's like, look, I get paid to find stuff out,

673
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 4: but once I find it out, I share it with

674
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: all of you. That's my job, right And if we

675
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 4: can make great pictures and compelling sound and great.

676
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 3: Interviews, that all loes it together. But that's what we do,

677
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: find stuff out and tell the people. That's it. That's

678
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: It's that simple.

679
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: It is that simple, right. I get asked a lot, like,

680
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of like the morality questions and

681
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: like you know, moral compass, like how do you decide

682
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: what's right and wrong? And like I feel like that's

683
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: such a nuanced thing. That's and I think everyone has

684
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: their own personal belief systems and different things everybody and

685
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: the you know, for you, like, what do you kind

686
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: of like how do you stay straight with you know,

687
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: catching a bad guy and balancing those things and what

688
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: is that for you?

689
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 5: Well?

690
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 4: I think the balance is always you know, tell the

691
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: truth in your reporting and don't let any personal biases clouded.

692
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: You know.

693
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 4: Be sure we'll ask you know all the time about

694
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: your politics, and I have the same answer. It's I'm

695
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 4: pro justice and it applies to somebody on one side

696
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: of the spectrum as it does to the other side

697
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 4: of the spectrum, and I just don't I.

698
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: Don't engage in political theater.

699
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 4: Sure, it's all around us, Yeah, and you can argue

700
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 4: as to whether it's good or bad or someplace in between.

701
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 4: But to me, it's it's you know, we're seekers of

702
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 4: the truth, we're witnesses to the truth, we're documentars of history,

703
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 4: and as long as you're just it's it's about being

704
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 4: painfully obvious, in transparent about your methodology and if if

705
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 4: something ends up being different than you thought, then you

706
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 4: follow that path.

707
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: And as long as you stay on the path and

708
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: you don't find the truth finding the truth, you know

709
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: it may not.

710
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 4: You may not get the answer in part one. But

711
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 4: if you bring the viewer along on your journey of

712
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 4: discovery and take them inside the commission of a crime

713
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 4: or inside a situation, that is also our job. And

714
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: I think that's become the signature part of my reporting

715
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 4: is that we bring people inside this, we take you along.

716
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: It's very in the process your exactly you get the

717
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: problem is or one of them I see is that. Yeah,

718
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: Like I also like to stay like, you know, the

719
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: goal is to find the truth. But the difficult part

720
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: of that is that sometimes the journey to finding the

721
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: truth is an ugly one.

722
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 4: It is ugly or the truth itself is very ugly

723
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 4: to joke around in the early days, you know, news

724
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 4: is not pretty.

725
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: Right, So like, how do you factor in that?

726
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: I think, you know, you have to use a certain

727
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 4: amount of good taste and judgment in terms of what's

728
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 4: too much depending on which platform you're reporting from. I

729
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: can be much more graphic in my podcast when I

730
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 4: get into transcripts of predators I've caught and what they

731
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 4: said and done, because I know who's tuning in and

732
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 4: what they want to hear. When it's uh, you know,

733
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 4: a documentary on mainstream television. You know, our sensibilities have

734
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 4: to be a little different based upon the audience. We

735
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 4: don't shade it, but you know, I may, I'm aware,

736
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 4: you're just aware. I may see something you know, from

737
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 4: a transcript that I wouldn't say on this stage, like

738
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: what like you know, a characterization of a word you

739
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: wouldn't say normally in public.

740
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: I don't really get what you're saying.

741
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you do say the bad word.

742
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: But again, you know, if you feel uncomfortable saying it,

743
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 4: than in all likelihood people are going.

744
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: To be uncomfortable. They might not like to hear it.

745
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 4: And again, I'll go to that very edge on the

746
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: podcast because I know and if I sanitize it too much,

747
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 4: I'll hear from my audience.

748
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: Hey, that's not why we do this, you know.

749
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, yes, can we admit that being on

750
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: South Park is totally a flex?

751
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: Very cool?

752
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

753
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: You know, they don't tell you when they do that.

754
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 4: I'm out in San Francisco going to shoot the night

755
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 4: at air and one of my agents text me and says,

756
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 4: South Park is doing your tonight because the East Coast

757
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 4: time I was on West he.

758
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: Said, it's pretty funny, and about twenty minutes later, you're taking.

759
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: A dark turn You're like, oh boy.

760
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was funny because you know, my older kids

761
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 4: were in high school at the time, and you know,

762
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: they're at a high school where.

763
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: Having a dad on TV wasn't a big deal.

764
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 4: There were other dads on TV, their dads who you know,

765
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 4: owned you know, sporting teams and were captains of industry

766
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 4: and hedge fonds and everything.

767
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 3: But when dude, your dad was on Salt Park last

768
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 3: night happened, that was you know, I was at a

769
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 3: whole level of yeah.

770
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: Next level shit. I liked that a lot.

771
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: It was right up there at the top.

772
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about your legacy?

773
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: I do sometimes.

774
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: Is that important to you?

775
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 3: I think it is.

776
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 4: I think anybody who's lived their life in the public

777
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 4: eye for so many years, you know, you want to

778
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 4: leave a legacy beyond you know, the number of Emmys

779
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: you've gotten.

780
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: Or Edward Armor.

781
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: What is the legacy to you?

782
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: Legacy to me is being remembered as somebody who worked

783
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 4: hard to tell the truth and who made at least

784
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 4: an incremental difference in the safety and goodness in society.

785
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 3: You know, if you leave this.

786
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 4: World, you know, a little better off than when you

787
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 4: got here, through your reporting, through your storytelling, if you entertained,

788
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 4: if you educated, if you you know, put some bad

789
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 4: guys away. You know, I'm fine with that. If that's

790
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: the legacy, that's great. I'm happy with that.

791
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: What's next for you, Well, I'll be back out in

792
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: the streets next week. You know. Well, we got some

793
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: of that, and we get these other documentaries that are fascinating.

794
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: We've got a dozen documentaries, ranging from the fentanyl story

795
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 4: I told you about in San Francisco and around the country, to.

796
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: The traditional predator shoots, the takedown stories, to other crime documentaries.

797
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 3: Sextortion is one.

798
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 4: We really have broadened our ability to get story ideas

799
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 4: from folks like you who reach out on social media,

800
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 4: and because I don't have to be limited by this

801
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 4: traditional network structure, all the meetings and bureaucracy, if I

802
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 4: see something that's hot and moving, I can jump on

803
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 4: it right away. Now, it may be a year before

804
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: it gets on TV because of our production schedule or

805
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: because the story takes that long to tell, but if

806
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 4: it needs to be on right a way, I can

807
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: get it on right away and I've got my own.

808
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: Network, so you can.

809
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: Basically, basically you're saying.

810
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: If if I saw something tonight, it can be on Monday.

811
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: So you can kind of do what you you want.

812
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: So can I come on your show? I just want

813
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: to be like in the back seat, like yeah, yeah,

814
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: go good on, Chris. This is crazy, Like.

815
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: We need we do need to collaborate on something.

816
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: It would be fun.

817
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: I'm getting like five different ideas as we sit here

818
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: at stage, but I mean that you.

819
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: Stay there and smoking cigarette or whatever, eat your sandwich.

820
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 4: And I would love to and we'll do it. I'm

821
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 4: already the wheels are spinning right now.

822
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 3: We're going to collaborate and.

823
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm not on a bad guys do it.

824
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: I don't care.

825
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to put you toward Yeah exactly. We

826
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: have a couple of minutes left, and I figured just

827
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: because everyone is such a fan of yours. I don't

828
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: know if we have mics or not, but like if

829
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: they wanted to ask a couple of questions, I feel

830
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: like it'd be cool to do that. We have like

831
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: five minutes talk, so I don't know how we do this. Hi,

832
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: Hi laugh, Hello O, Okay, it's me there's actually a.

833
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: Life back there.

834
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 7: But yeah, Chris help them out.

835
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 3: Wait wait what Hi?

836
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 7: My name's Kathy and it's nice to meet y'all. I'm

837
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 7: a zero chance of the meeting greet, so this is

838
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 7: my chance. So I have a question. As someone who

839
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 7: has probably the best chance of getting a straight answer

840
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 7: from a woman who's a heinous murderer, I've got one

841
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 7: shot at getting the actual truth as to why she

842
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 7: did it. We have a long history and we know

843
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 7: each other very well. What would you say, other than

844
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 7: feel out their personality would be the best way to

845
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 7: get it?

846
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 4: Well, I guess i'd start, uh, you know, with an

847
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: open ended question, and what I would say, Look, you're

848
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 4: in this situation.

849
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: You know that. I know that.

850
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 4: Help me to understand why. Everybody's got a reason. And

851
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 4: if I understand it, then you know I can I

852
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 4: can better accept it or forgive it. But you need

853
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 4: to be honest with it. Just tell me what happened, right,

854
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 4: Give me that piece, don't attack create and the best

855
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 4: interrogators of terrorists and criminals are guys that initiate a conversation.

856
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 3: And a relationship. If you want a cigarette, do you

857
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: want some soup? You want a cup of coffee. What

858
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: can I get you? And just look, we're both here, right,

859
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: You're not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere.

860
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 4: Just just help me out, give me some peace, help

861
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 4: me to understand what led you to this situation and

862
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 4: what led you to do what you do, and let

863
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 4: them take a deep breath and hold please.

864
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: They tell you the truth.

865
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: Damn well, he's a.

866
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 4: I mean right, absolutely Again, Sometimes it's it's just explained

867
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 4: it to me and don't rush through it.

868
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: Just you know, spend some time.

869
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 7: And if I had to ask anything, what would be

870
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 7: your favorite, most important question that you would ask somebody

871
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 7: other than why the hell did you do that?

872
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: You know, I guess I'd ask you know, what is it?

873
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 3: What what happened to you that made you think this

874
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: was a good idea to do?

875
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 7: Gotcha?

876
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: Or why are you the way that you are?

877
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 3: Right? Exactly exactly.

878
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 7: Well, thank you very much, Thank.

879
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 3: You, Thank you, Chris A big fan. Thank you.

880
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 8: I did want to ask a question about the new

881
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 8: new phenomenon with the daily, so I was going to

882
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 8: get I met you yesterday, so I was you got

883
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 8: a phone call, so I wanted to ask you in person.

884
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 8: But the almost daily reports of female predators and pedophiles,

885
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 8: and there seems to be a different narrative when it

886
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 8: comes to female abusers. They call it affairs a romantic

887
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 8: relationship when a female abuses a child and essentially as

888
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 8: a pedophile, just the same as men are. But yet

889
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 8: when it's a male as the victim. I'm curious. I

890
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 8: don't believe you. Have you ever caught a female? Do

891
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 8: you target or do you target only men? And why

892
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 8: do you think it's so hard to catch? Because we've

893
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 8: seen how many female predators there are in the news

894
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 8: every day, there's almost a new report of particularly teachers,

895
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 8: but they're all in the community. How come it's hard

896
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 8: to catch female predators online?

897
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: The experts tell us, the behavioral folks tell us, the

898
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 4: therapists tell us that it's because when it comes to

899
00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 4: the female predator, they don't like the anonymity of the

900
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 4: online engagements.

901
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: It's happened. It's never happened in our investigations, but it

902
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: has happened. And what you're more likely to see is

903
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: what you alluded to, what we see virtually every.

904
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 4: Week, which is a female teacher, teacher's assistant, counselor therapist

905
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 4: engaged in an inappropriate sexual relationship with an underage boy.

906
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 3: And society does view that. They don't like that.

907
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 4: They like to know the victim of the target, and

908
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: again part of society views that as a little boy's fantasy,

909
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 4: which is wrong because it is illegal and it has

910
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 4: a very definite impact on this child's life. And why

911
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 4: we see all these cases now, I have a couple

912
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: of theories. One, I think in the criminal area, you

913
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 4: often see what is being exploited on the porn sites.

914
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 4: Every time we catch a predator who's offended before, there's

915
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 4: a very high likelihood that they've been associated with child porn.

916
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 3: In some of these cases.

917
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 4: There's a for instance, a big rise in teacher schoolboy.

918
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 3: Porn on these sites.

919
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 4: There's a big hike in the amount of step mom

920
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 4: daughter porn and stepfather. It was just crazy to think about,

921
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 4: but it does, and I think that breeds some of

922
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 4: this real life activity and we see that in our stings.

923
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: But the female predators like.

924
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 4: To know their victim, target their victim, and you know,

925
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 4: I think that's what we're seeing.

926
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 3: Now. We've commissioned a documentary on.

927
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 4: It because it is such a huge issue, so there'll

928
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: be more on that soon.

929
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 5: Hi, my name's Vicky. Thank you so much for everything

930
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: that you do. You guys were talking about legacy, and

931
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 5: I think a lot of people that come to crime

932
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 5: con we're just general folks and we're just going about

933
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 5: our day, but we admire everything that you all do

934
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 5: for society. And I think a lot of us kind

935
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,839
Speaker 5: of sit home and think what can we do? What

936
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 5: can we do? We're not you know, we're not in

937
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 5: the public eye. I were just regular people, and so

938
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 5: what could you say advice for all of us if

939
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 5: we want to get involved, if we want to, what

940
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 5: can we do to kind of be able to make

941
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: an impact, even albeit very small, but anything at all, Like,

942
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 5: what can we do?

943
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 6: Well?

944
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 3: I think it starts at home.

945
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 4: It starts in the conversations you have with your children,

946
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 4: your nieces, your nephews, you know, your friend's kids, who

947
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: often will tell you stuff that they won't tell their

948
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 4: immediate parents.

949
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 3: And so to have an open conversation and.

950
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 4: To say, you know, I heard a great story or

951
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 4: actually not a great story, but an interesting story.

952
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: The other day, after the sex Station is Sextortion presentation.

953
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 4: A gentleman went out to call his seventeen year old

954
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 4: son and say, hey, I.

955
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: Just was in this thing. I didn't know anything about it.

956
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 4: You know, you should know about it because dad had

957
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 4: happened to me when I was fourteen and fortunately didn't

958
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 4: lead to you know, a violent act. But yeah, some

959
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 4: guy tried to do this to me and I never told.

960
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: You about it because I was embarrassed.

961
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 4: You said, oh my god, son, you know, please know

962
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 4: that you can tell me about it.

963
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: But again, it's awareness.

964
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 4: It's it's you know, when you see something that you

965
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 4: think is wrong, or you see something online reported to

966
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 4: the to the to the internet service provider, reported to

967
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 4: the local police, and it may not come to anything,

968
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 4: but at least you generate another element of that database

969
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 4: that one day might be important.

970
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: And connect the dots to another crime.

971
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: Just you know, it sounds corny, but if you see something,

972
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 4: say something you know.

973
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: Man to me, it's like you being here right now

974
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: and asking that question is.

975
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: Probably already part of that. That's a sense of aware.

976
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: It is right because not everyone's doing that. And like

977
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: when I get asked like the legacy question, which is

978
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: not that often, but I I don't really know what

979
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: to think about that. Maybe like down the road, I'll

980
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: look back.

981
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: On it more tory about that.

982
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like you little shrimp. But I I I'm

983
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: so focused on right now and like making sure that's

984
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: okay and those things become legacy. It comes about what's

985
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: happened already.

986
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 3: I didn't know what it meant when I was your age, right,

987
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: But I.

988
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: Think what you're doing now, I think is like that

989
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: is there you go. That's already a start asking questions

990
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: and learning, and to be honest, that's literally all I'm

991
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: still doing. So if that means anything, that's that's what

992
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: I'm doing.

993
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 3: This young lady in the front row keeps trying to

994
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: get our attention.

995
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: Oh yes, hey.

996
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 8: Maybe by.

997
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: Law never not once it may have happened at some point.

998
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: I certainly can't speak.

999
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: Like if it was someone's friend or something, but friend

1000
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: but not something conspiracy that we're protecting pedophile.

1001
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, I I get I you

1002
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 4: know kind of how.

1003
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: A teenage Yeah.

1004
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 7: Uh.

1005
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: The investigation, I mean you can.

1006
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 7: Invest in or and the investigation that went forward, and

1007
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 7: a lot of it seems to me because.

1008
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: His arms had been heard.

1009
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: Enough like other things in your lives and the powers he.

1010
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 6: Said, and you let it go.

1011
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, he he's young enough.

1012
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: Uh, probably totally gets your ure watching him when you will.

1013
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've heard of scenarios like that.

1014
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 4: I know the one you're talking about, but I I

1015
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 4: don't have first hand knowledge that I I'm looking into

1016
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 4: a couple of situations never happened to me though.

1017
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 6: Yes, right, sorry, No, we gotta go so real quick.

1018
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 6: Thank you both for everything else done. I'm like fangirling

1019
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 6: right now.

1020
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1021
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 6: But so knowing what you know. We know about sex

1022
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 6: crimes being the worst thing that could happen to a child,

1023
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 6: and then the psychological effects, suicide rates, et cetera. The laws,

1024
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 6: A lot of the people that you do catch, especially

1025
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 6: if it's their first time that year coming in and

1026
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 6: they didn't do the act. It's probation and the sex

1027
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 6: offender list, and we know just from all these documentaries

1028
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 6: like three Sex Offenders. We're working at Nickelodeon, you know,

1029
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 6: and so it's just like with all of them being

1030
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 6: around us at all times and just living on the streets.

1031
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 6: I'm just wondering what the evolution of the law, if

1032
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 6: you've seen it over your years doing this, the laws

1033
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 6: cracking down harder. I think it's frustrating, and why the

1034
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 6: vigilantes kind of step in is because most of them

1035
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 6: get little to no time probation and then sex offendry list. Sarah,

1036
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 6: I'm just curious if there's getting any better with the

1037
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 6: laws state to state.

1038
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 4: It does vary from state to state, and I know

1039
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 4: that you know, one guy can do the same thing

1040
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 4: in Polk County, Florida and go away for two years,

1041
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 4: and can do it someplace else and get As you said,

1042
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 4: probation and registration is a sex offender And the truth

1043
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 4: of it is, it does vary in jurisdictions. If you're

1044
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 4: in Genesee County, Flint, Michigan, where there are one hundred

1045
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 4: murders waiting to be prosecuted, and you've got a first

1046
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: time offender who've got contonesting who's willing to plead and

1047
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 4: go one probation, go to sex offender you know, therapy,

1048
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 4: and go on on the list, They're likely to take

1049
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 4: that and mark it down as a conviction. Should this

1050
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 4: guy go.

1051
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 3: Away forever, you know that's prole and probation. Folks have

1052
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 3: to court services have to take.

1053
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 4: A look at that and score them as to whether

1054
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 4: or not they'll offend again when they do, it's horrendous

1055
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 4: and it creates, you know, a horrible impact on society,

1056
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 4: and it makes the system re examine itself I as

1057
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 4: you might imagine, and more for the send them to

1058
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: jail for a bit, you know, get their attention, and

1059
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 4: if it's a second offense, they should go away forever.

1060
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 4: But we have gone from seeing stings in California where

1061
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 4: the judges treated this as a you know, a TV

1062
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 4: reality show.

1063
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 3: Even though law enforcement was involved too. You know, some

1064
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 3: of these guys, if they've been clipped before, they will

1065
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: go away for a long time.

1066
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 4: And and we've seen some thirty year sentences and some

1067
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 4: heavy duty sentences if if there's more than one offense here.

1068
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 3: So it's not perfect. I'm not happy with all the jurisdictions.

1069
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 4: I provide my services and my input whenever I can

1070
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 4: to get greater sentences, and you know, you sometimes just

1071
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 4: hope for the best.

1072
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, well, thank you guys. You've been amazing.

1073
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. But it's always a pleasure. It's it's

1074
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 3: easy with you. Thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you.

1075
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 9: Talking to Death is a production of Tenorfoot TV and

1076
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 9: iHeart Podcast created and hosted by Paynton Lindsay. For Tenorfoot TV,

1077
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 9: executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive

1078
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 9: producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are

1079
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 9: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup

1080
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 9: and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

1081
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 9: Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wild for Cohedo. Production

1082
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 9: support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing

1083
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 9: and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover

1084
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 9: art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

1085
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 9: Talking to Death podcast dot com.

1086
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.

1087
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you

1088
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe

1089
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus

1090
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: dot com