1 00:00:00,210 --> 00:00:27,570 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,610 --> 00:00:30,750 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:30,890 --> 00:00:36,089 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Look, this is our super producer, Mr. 4 00:00:36,130 --> 00:00:40,130 Speaker 1: Max Williams. That's Noel Brown. They call me Ben Bullen. 5 00:00:40,490 --> 00:00:44,670 Speaker 1: And we figured out a few years ago a concept 6 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,660 Speaker 1: of a clip show because, Noel, as you know, there's 7 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: a ton of stuff that we research and can't quite 8 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: fit into an episode. 9 00:00:53,650 --> 00:00:55,610 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I like the clip show concept. 10 00:00:55,690 --> 00:00:57,110 Speaker 3: I did point out last time that it's a little 11 00:00:57,150 --> 00:01:00,070 Speaker 3: different than your, you know, clearly run of the mill 12 00:01:01,050 --> 00:01:04,690 Speaker 3: 90s sitcom and Simpsons-esque clip shows where you are literally 13 00:01:04,950 --> 00:01:08,620 Speaker 3: seeing some frame story surrounding the repetition of clips of 14 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: episodes you've already seen. These are things that may have 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,110 Speaker 3: could have been featured in episodes you've already heard. But 16 00:01:15,130 --> 00:01:17,330 Speaker 3: you've never heard these bits before. So we do set 17 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 3: ourselves apart in that respect. I would maybe posit more 18 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 3: of a listicle show. 19 00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 2: There we go. 20 00:01:22,860 --> 00:01:28,220 Speaker 1: It's a modular approach. And essentially what you're hearing here, folks, 21 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:34,950 Speaker 1: is various examples of times that we got super obsessed 22 00:01:35,230 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: with rabbit holes. We've been going through kind of an 23 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,290 Speaker 1: Americana folklore phase this year, and we recently had an 24 00:01:50,470 --> 00:01:55,210 Speaker 1: episode about the legendary Johnny Appleseed, or as we decided 25 00:01:55,250 --> 00:01:57,190 Speaker 1: to call him in the episode, Johnny Apps. 26 00:01:57,850 --> 00:02:00,630 Speaker 2: Johnny Apps, like Willie Shatz. 27 00:02:01,070 --> 00:02:01,350 Speaker 1: Yes. 28 00:02:01,370 --> 00:02:03,910 Speaker 2: Before him, well, after him, yes. 29 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:08,540 Speaker 3: So the last known survivor, we'll call it, of Johnny Apps... 30 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:10,740 Speaker 3: Reign of positivity. 31 00:02:10,980 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: I could say. Yeah, is a tree, as you can imagine. 32 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 3: An ancient apple tree that lives on to this day 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,270 Speaker 3: in a farm in a place, a very cool sounding 34 00:02:22,330 --> 00:02:24,889 Speaker 3: place called Nova in Ohio. 35 00:02:25,310 --> 00:02:31,150 Speaker 1: Yes, Nova, Ohio. This is where Johnny Appleseed, the actual guy, 36 00:02:31,490 --> 00:02:37,230 Speaker 1: Johnny actual Appleseed, is believed to have planted a whole orchard. 37 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,430 Speaker 1: of what are called Rambo apple trees in 1830, and 38 00:02:41,450 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: I had no idea there was such a thing as 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Rambo apple trees. 40 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: Do you think John Rambo was named after the trees 41 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:50,540 Speaker 3: or were the trees named after? 42 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,500 Speaker 2: No, no, I wouldn't make it. John Rambo, of course, 43 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,410 Speaker 2: the fictional Sylvester Stallone, problematically Americana, a bit of an 44 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,150 Speaker 2: American folk hero in his own way. First blood. Yeah. 45 00:03:01,389 --> 00:03:04,590 Speaker 2: Like I love kill Brown people. Oh, geez. 46 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:10,470 Speaker 1: Well, that aside, the apple trees that Johnny apparently planted, 47 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,620 Speaker 1: still do produce fruit. You can learn more about this 48 00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:19,140 Speaker 1: by going to nurserymag.com, where you'll see the news about 49 00:03:19,180 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: the last living Johnny Appleseed tree. 50 00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:23,980 Speaker 3: Now, Ben, I seem to recall there was an issue 51 00:03:24,020 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: with the way he planted. It kind of caused like mealy, 52 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: kind of gross apples that you wouldn't want to nosh on, 53 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 3: but you could definitely mash them up and make them 54 00:03:32,780 --> 00:03:37,260 Speaker 3: into a bit of a mash, an alcoholic concoction. 55 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,410 Speaker 2: Is that true of these legacy trees as well? 56 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:45,010 Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked a little bit about this in our 57 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:50,210 Speaker 1: previous exploration. The issue is that every time you make 58 00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:51,590 Speaker 1: an apple from a seed. 59 00:03:51,610 --> 00:03:52,470 Speaker 2: An angel gets its wings? 60 00:03:52,490 --> 00:03:56,270 Speaker 1: An angel gets its wings and plays a genetic lottery 61 00:03:56,350 --> 00:04:00,490 Speaker 1: because apples don't do what we call breeding true to seed. 62 00:04:00,890 --> 00:04:04,220 Speaker 2: Ben, if I win the genetic lottery, I won't say anything, 63 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: but there will be signs. 64 00:04:05,300 --> 00:04:08,420 Speaker 1: There will be signs, yeah. Think about it this way. 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,050 Speaker 1: You know, if we... plant a tomato, we are going 66 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:15,330 Speaker 1: to get a plant pretty much identical to. 67 00:04:15,190 --> 00:04:19,370 Speaker 2: The parent plant, but apples are built different, homies. Because 68 00:04:19,410 --> 00:04:20,610 Speaker 2: of the grafting, right? 69 00:04:20,930 --> 00:04:26,810 Speaker 1: Well, you have to graft because of their love of mutation. 70 00:04:26,860 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 1: The apple genome has, and this is true, more genes 71 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: than the human genome. Their heterozygous, meaning that their genetic 72 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:41,770 Speaker 1: makeup is a mix of somewhat unpredictable DNA from two 73 00:04:41,810 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: different parents. 74 00:04:42,860 --> 00:04:45,780 Speaker 2: I'm guessing, Ben, this is not the case with oranges. Otherwise, 75 00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:48,420 Speaker 2: people wouldn't, you know, use that as a thing for 76 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: two things that are completely different. That's right. 77 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: That's right. 78 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:54,740 Speaker 3: I'm on a dad joke tear today, guys. We're having 79 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,790 Speaker 3: some big Friday energy on Thursday. 80 00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:58,029 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're on fire. 81 00:04:58,210 --> 00:04:59,109 Speaker 1: And it is Thursday. 82 00:04:59,170 --> 00:04:59,630 Speaker 2: I forgot. 83 00:05:00,390 --> 00:05:03,770 Speaker 1: We have to talk about nominative determinism, one of our 84 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:09,140 Speaker 1: favorite inside jokes today. because we found an explanation about 85 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:15,870 Speaker 1: how apple mutations occur from a guy named napton cidery yeah. 86 00:05:16,350 --> 00:05:19,890 Speaker 3: Yeah i mean jonathan apple seed as if that weren't 87 00:05:19,930 --> 00:05:23,250 Speaker 3: enough you know that was a was a nickname yes 88 00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:27,770 Speaker 3: that's right uh napton cidery which if he didn't start 89 00:05:27,790 --> 00:05:30,550 Speaker 3: a cidery That was called the Napton cider. 90 00:05:30,610 --> 00:05:32,779 Speaker 2: It already sounds like it should be a thing. 91 00:05:33,060 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to drink a cider from some guy 92 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: named Napton. I don't know why. 93 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: Why not? You drink a wine from Napa. 94 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,970 Speaker 1: Yeah, I should finally learn about wine at some point. 95 00:05:44,330 --> 00:05:46,450 Speaker 2: You know what's really big these days, Ben? What's that? 96 00:05:46,510 --> 00:05:50,659 Speaker 2: Natural wine. Natural wine. What's the difference? Natural wine. It's natural, man. 97 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,500 Speaker 2: I don't know. Oh, my God. I mean, I guess 98 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,620 Speaker 2: most wines, it's a subgenre of wine. What's his face? 99 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,460 Speaker 2: Eric Wareheim of Tim and Eric fame. Oh, yeah. 100 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,770 Speaker 3: He has a winery called Las Charas. He wrote a 101 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:04,690 Speaker 3: great cookbook, too, by the way. He's a smart dude 102 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:06,930 Speaker 3: and an interesting guy and a real bon vivant. And 103 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:10,089 Speaker 3: he loves food and wine. And he has this natural 104 00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:14,090 Speaker 3: wine company called Las Charas. And they have one called 105 00:06:14,210 --> 00:06:16,550 Speaker 3: Glue Glue, which is fun because when you pour a wine, 106 00:06:16,570 --> 00:06:17,270 Speaker 3: what sound does it make? 107 00:06:19,220 --> 00:06:19,620 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. 108 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 2: Pretty, pretty cute. 109 00:06:21,140 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: The most popular ones, you'll start to see them at like, 110 00:06:23,260 --> 00:06:27,419 Speaker 3: you know, nice restaurants. Really popular ones right now are 111 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: orange and they are naturally fizzy. Just a little bit. 112 00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: Something to do with the process of how they're made. 113 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: And they have these kind of floaty little bits in them. 114 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: Sulfides, I think they're called. And they just have a vibe, man. 115 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: They're really nice. They're really refreshing. 116 00:06:43,339 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: And I'm a huge fan of natural wines. 117 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:49,510 Speaker 4: Yeah, natural wine is pure grape juice that's fermented without 118 00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:54,570 Speaker 4: anything else. There's no sulfites, artificial coloring, sugar, yeast. 119 00:06:54,589 --> 00:06:54,830 Speaker 2: Tannins? 120 00:06:54,890 --> 00:06:57,870 Speaker 1: Where are we at with tannins? 121 00:06:57,910 --> 00:07:00,250 Speaker 2: That's what the floaty bits are. They're not sulfites. 122 00:07:00,570 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 3: Sulfites you will find in more traditionally fermented wines. But 123 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,219 Speaker 3: the floaty bits in this, it's a feature, not a bug. 124 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,340 Speaker 3: It just shows you that it was really done correctly. 125 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,710 Speaker 4: And there's also stuff about how the best practices you'd 126 00:07:13,730 --> 00:07:15,190 Speaker 4: have to do with them and stuff like that. I'm 127 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:17,610 Speaker 4: getting this from Dry Farm Wines, by the way. 128 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: Oh, OK. Dry farm wines. Also, I'm grateful to you 129 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:24,060 Speaker 1: guys for teaching me the stuff that cool kids know. 130 00:07:24,580 --> 00:07:26,830 Speaker 1: You know, I would just be walking to a winery 131 00:07:27,330 --> 00:07:30,210 Speaker 1: and saying the one thing I know about wine, which 132 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:32,270 Speaker 1: is that red wine has tannins. 133 00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:33,850 Speaker 2: It does have tannins. 134 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:36,860 Speaker 3: And just to correct myself, the bits floating in the 135 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:40,410 Speaker 3: natural wines. are sediments that are made up from leftover 136 00:07:40,530 --> 00:07:45,630 Speaker 3: grape solids, dead yeast particles, or natural crystals that derive 137 00:07:45,650 --> 00:07:48,770 Speaker 3: from the process. But we are not talking about natural wine, 138 00:07:48,810 --> 00:07:51,310 Speaker 3: but that was a delightfully refreshing aside. 139 00:07:52,040 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: And speaking of asideries, Napton Sidery writes in regard to 140 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,890 Speaker 1: apple mutation, think of it like human children. You and 141 00:08:05,930 --> 00:08:08,310 Speaker 1: your partner might have a child, but that child is 142 00:08:08,370 --> 00:08:12,110 Speaker 1: not a clone of you. They are a unique remix 143 00:08:12,190 --> 00:08:15,470 Speaker 1: of your DNA. So imagine if you have 50 children, 144 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:19,060 Speaker 1: they're all going to look different, some taller, some shorter, 145 00:08:19,180 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: some with blue eyes, some with brown. And Sidery, I think, 146 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: makes an excellent analogy here about how apples work. 147 00:08:28,850 --> 00:08:30,290 Speaker 2: Is that what they mean when they say the apple 148 00:08:30,330 --> 00:08:32,010 Speaker 2: doesn't fall too far from the tree? 149 00:08:32,210 --> 00:08:34,050 Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about that, and that's a 150 00:08:34,130 --> 00:08:39,290 Speaker 1: really weird one because the apple does genetically seem to 151 00:08:39,330 --> 00:08:41,410 Speaker 1: fall pretty far from its parent. 152 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,020 Speaker 2: That's true. An apple fruit is the ovary of the tree, 153 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 2: and the seeds inside are, to stick with the comparison, 154 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: the children. So the mother would be the tree that 155 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,740 Speaker 2: the fruit grew on. The father would be the unknown 156 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,220 Speaker 2: tree that a particular bee visited. Before landing on the 157 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,620 Speaker 2: mother's seductive blossom. Yeah. 158 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:10,550 Speaker 1: So every single seed in every single apple is genetically unique. 159 00:09:10,870 --> 00:09:13,770 Speaker 1: So this is a problem Johnny Appleseed had. If you 160 00:09:13,830 --> 00:09:17,790 Speaker 1: plant 10 seeds from one apple, you will get 10 161 00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: totally different trees. And most of these, to our earlier point, 162 00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: most of these wild apples were that are called pippins, 163 00:09:26,660 --> 00:09:30,230 Speaker 1: by the way, they make small bitter fruit. You can 164 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:32,370 Speaker 1: mash it down for cider, but you wouldn't want to 165 00:09:32,410 --> 00:09:35,150 Speaker 1: pull one off a tree and eat it. It tastes 166 00:09:35,170 --> 00:09:35,689 Speaker 1: pretty gross. 167 00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:39,950 Speaker 3: And that's why the grafting is the move, because that 168 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:42,069 Speaker 3: gives you predictable genetic results. 169 00:09:42,570 --> 00:09:46,710 Speaker 1: A hundred percent. And while we are on the subject 170 00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: of food, we have to return to another recent obsession 171 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: of ours, which is the iced creams. 172 00:10:02,309 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: Ah, yes, the iced creams, the soft-served iced creams, Ben. 173 00:10:06,980 --> 00:10:09,819 Speaker 3: This was a little bit that I was kind of 174 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: sad we didn't get to in that history of soft-serve 175 00:10:12,460 --> 00:10:16,179 Speaker 3: ice cream episode because it introduces, much like in our 176 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: discussion of Atlanta streets earlier, a bit of a true 177 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:19,980 Speaker 3: crime story. 178 00:10:20,590 --> 00:10:24,290 Speaker 2: Which, you know, it's okay every now and then. It happens. 179 00:10:24,730 --> 00:10:28,970 Speaker 2: It does happen. So you'll recall Tom Carvell, the creator 180 00:10:28,990 --> 00:10:34,990 Speaker 2: of Fudgy the Whale and other delicious ice cream-based characters, including, 181 00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:39,890 Speaker 2: there was another weird one, Sugar Puss. What? Cookie Puss. 182 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:40,949 Speaker 1: Is that real? 183 00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:41,949 Speaker 2: Yeah, Cookie Puss. 184 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:42,709 Speaker 1: Oh, wow. 185 00:10:43,050 --> 00:10:43,290 Speaker 2: Yeah. 186 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: Is it like an octopus that's a cookie and also 187 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:46,660 Speaker 1: ice cream? 188 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 2: I think he must be if we're sticking with the 189 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:48,579 Speaker 2: nautical theme. 190 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:49,250 Speaker 1: Let's see. 191 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: Cookie. I don't know. I don't think we talked about 192 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,260 Speaker 2: Cookie Puss. No. No, we did. Cookie Puss is not 193 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: an octopus at all. He's just a face because that's 194 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:58,089 Speaker 2: what they used to call a face, your puss. Your puss, yeah. 195 00:10:58,230 --> 00:11:00,829 Speaker 2: Which doesn't really stand. 196 00:11:00,530 --> 00:11:04,830 Speaker 1: Up to modern scrutiny. Well, you know, the English language 197 00:11:04,910 --> 00:11:06,390 Speaker 1: is a living document. 198 00:11:06,490 --> 00:11:07,850 Speaker 2: So, nope. 199 00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:13,770 Speaker 1: I remember from your research in our history of soft 200 00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: serve episodes that Tom Carvell passed away, unfortunately, in 1990. 201 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,820 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was maybe less of a true crime 202 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 3: story at the end of the day than just sort 203 00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:31,830 Speaker 3: of like a succession kerfuffle, right? So Tom Carvell, like 204 00:11:31,870 --> 00:11:35,390 Speaker 3: I mentioned before, I got derailed by Cookie Puss, passed. 205 00:11:35,210 --> 00:11:39,750 Speaker 2: Away in 1990. And when he did, a really gnarly 206 00:11:39,870 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 2: feud exploded between his and his widow, Agnes Carvell's fortune. 207 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,820 Speaker 2: as well as their charitable trusts. 208 00:11:49,660 --> 00:11:58,980 Speaker 3: The trustees, Mildred Arcadapain and Robert Davis, were essentially emboldened 209 00:11:59,070 --> 00:12:03,550 Speaker 3: by mutual wills. They limited Agnes' access to the funds 210 00:12:04,010 --> 00:12:06,470 Speaker 3: and were later sued by the New York Attorney General 211 00:12:07,070 --> 00:12:11,110 Speaker 3: for mismanagement of the funds, prompting the trustees to resign 212 00:12:11,130 --> 00:12:18,599 Speaker 3: in 1996. However, Tom's niece, Tom Carvell, Pamela Carvel escalated 213 00:12:18,660 --> 00:12:27,780 Speaker 3: the whole gnarly affair with some pretty intense accusations, unsuccessfully 214 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:33,750 Speaker 3: claiming in 2007 in a bid to exhume Tom Carvel's body, 215 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:39,670 Speaker 3: alleging that he was murdered by the trustees in order 216 00:12:39,809 --> 00:12:42,130 Speaker 3: to hide embezzlement. 217 00:12:42,690 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: Well, first off, I am so excited. for all of 218 00:12:46,660 --> 00:12:50,310 Speaker 1: us to one day get our own charitable trust. 219 00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:51,309 Speaker 2: I can't wait. 220 00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:55,530 Speaker 1: But also, yeah, this does feel like true crime, Noel, 221 00:12:55,610 --> 00:13:01,530 Speaker 1: because Pamela Carvel is saying that her uncle was murdered 222 00:13:01,630 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: because of financial crimes. And as you found in your research, 223 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,780 Speaker 1: Courts repeatedly rejected her suits. She brought this to the 224 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: courts at multiple instances. 225 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,900 Speaker 2: Well, $ 28 million worth of instances, Ben. I mean, we're 226 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,630 Speaker 2: talking gnarly court costs and fees that ultimately led to 227 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:23,750 Speaker 2: a big fat nothing. 228 00:13:24,429 --> 00:13:30,050 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, because they're trying to control charitable entities and 229 00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:32,390 Speaker 1: they're burning through their nest egg. 230 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:35,500 Speaker 3: So it does seem that it's very unlikely that Mr. 231 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: Carvel was the victim of foul play and that his 232 00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:43,860 Speaker 3: heir was barking up the wrong tree. And, you know, 233 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:49,390 Speaker 3: in doing and in pursuing these allegations burned up quite 234 00:13:49,429 --> 00:13:50,969 Speaker 3: a bit of her inheritance. 235 00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:52,589 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 236 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:57,140 Speaker 1: And. There is definitely a tale to be told there. 237 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,380 Speaker 1: Let's see if we can pitch it to our friends 238 00:13:59,590 --> 00:14:01,449 Speaker 1: over at Ridiculous Crime. 239 00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:02,710 Speaker 2: Good call. Yeah. 240 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:05,910 Speaker 1: While we're on the subject of ice cream crimes, Noel, 241 00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:09,569 Speaker 1: you and I mentioned this either on Stuff They Don't 242 00:14:09,610 --> 00:14:12,590 Speaker 1: Want You To Know or here on this show. We 243 00:14:12,650 --> 00:14:15,750 Speaker 1: have to give a shout out to another recent ice 244 00:14:15,809 --> 00:14:19,770 Speaker 1: cream movement, the Free Ben and Jerry's movement. 245 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, we were in a green room doing this 246 00:14:23,460 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: little speaking event for ad week thing here in Atlanta, 247 00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:31,700 Speaker 3: and there's this kindly older gentleman in the back. I 248 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,500 Speaker 3: kind of walked in late, and I was just introduced 249 00:14:33,540 --> 00:14:36,490 Speaker 3: to him as another fellow Ben, and I missed the 250 00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:39,850 Speaker 3: detail that he was Ben of Ben and Jerry's fame. 251 00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:43,150 Speaker 1: Yes, and I've got to admit, Noel, you know this well. 252 00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:48,150 Speaker 1: When Bens meet each other, we typically– tend to grow 253 00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: up instantly. And we should probably ask more questions because 254 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:56,820 Speaker 1: a name doesn't mean you are immediately someone's soul brother. 255 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: But in general, Ben's tend to get along. So we 256 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,660 Speaker 1: later learned this guy was actually the ice cream man. 257 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: And not only that, he has since 2021 been fighting 258 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:16,260 Speaker 1: a corporate takeover, a big baddie named Unilever. which owns 259 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:22,670 Speaker 1: another ice cream brand called Magnum, has apparently compromised the 260 00:15:22,810 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: values of Ben & Jerry's. Now, how would we describe 261 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: Ben & Jerry's ice cream to anybody who's never heard 262 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:28,260 Speaker 1: of it? 263 00:15:28,450 --> 00:15:29,330 Speaker 2: Well, it's delicious. 264 00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:32,150 Speaker 3: You may know some of their more popular flavors, such 265 00:15:32,190 --> 00:15:34,430 Speaker 3: as Chunky Monkey, Cherry Garcia. 266 00:15:34,770 --> 00:15:35,870 Speaker 2: They love a pun, dude. 267 00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:38,630 Speaker 3: They love a pun, and they love a hippie. 268 00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:40,710 Speaker 2: They never met a hippie they didn't like. 269 00:15:41,630 --> 00:15:45,369 Speaker 3: The pair were based in Vermont, and they look it 270 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: in their images, as did Mr. 271 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:49,820 Speaker 2: Bennett, by the way, short for Bennett. 272 00:15:50,890 --> 00:15:52,790 Speaker 3: You know, I swear in my mind he was wearing 273 00:15:52,830 --> 00:15:55,750 Speaker 3: a puffy jacket, but he may not have actually been. 274 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:59,310 Speaker 3: But as you can imagine, that part of the country 275 00:15:59,350 --> 00:16:02,750 Speaker 3: here in the United States is well known for its activism. 276 00:16:03,210 --> 00:16:04,109 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah. 277 00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:06,410 Speaker 3: And Ben & Jerry's as a brand has always kind 278 00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:09,170 Speaker 3: of leaned into that in the writings on the back 279 00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:14,700 Speaker 3: of their pints, some special one-off kind of drops that 280 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: they will do that benefit certain charitable organizations. And that's 281 00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:24,630 Speaker 3: Still the case today, at least in theory, but they, 282 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:28,030 Speaker 3: at least Mr. Ben, does not feel that the Magnum 283 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: Unilever brand have honored the spirit of their agreement when 284 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: they acquired the Ben & Jerry's brand in continuing in 285 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 3: that legacy of charitable activities. 286 00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:41,020 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. 287 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,460 Speaker 1: And I think that's an excellent summation. We were surprised 288 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: to learn that Mr. Cohen has done something Old school protesting, 289 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:54,300 Speaker 1: old school activism with Magnum. He gate crashed the Magnum 290 00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:58,210 Speaker 1: Capital Market Day in London and his got arrested. 291 00:16:58,270 --> 00:16:58,470 Speaker 2: Right. 292 00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:01,970 Speaker 1: I think he did get in trouble. And I can't 293 00:17:02,030 --> 00:17:03,930 Speaker 1: wait for us to have him on the show to 294 00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:06,030 Speaker 1: tell us about the ice cream wars. 295 00:17:06,050 --> 00:17:09,189 Speaker 3: Fingers crossed. He gave us his assistance info. And I 296 00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:12,429 Speaker 3: think whether he's on. This show or stuff they don't 297 00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:15,830 Speaker 3: want you to know, honestly, it fits both bills. We'll 298 00:17:15,850 --> 00:17:18,130 Speaker 3: figure that out off mic. But it seems pretty likely 299 00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:19,810 Speaker 3: that we'll get to have a chat with Mr. 300 00:17:20,310 --> 00:17:22,090 Speaker 2: Bennett Cohen. Yes, yeah. 301 00:17:22,330 --> 00:17:26,409 Speaker 1: And if you want to sign the petitions they have 302 00:17:26,950 --> 00:17:31,070 Speaker 1: to Free Ben & Jerry's, you can go to FreeBenAndJerrys.com. 303 00:17:31,369 --> 00:17:33,030 Speaker 3: Oh, and lest we bury the lead a little bit, 304 00:17:33,290 --> 00:17:36,390 Speaker 3: literally they just are trying to wrest control of this 305 00:17:36,970 --> 00:17:39,270 Speaker 3: once independent brand from their customers. 306 00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 2: Now corporate overlords. 307 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 3: And I don't know exactly all of the mechanisms that 308 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,910 Speaker 3: they're employing other than just, you know, good old fashioned protests. 309 00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:50,830 Speaker 3: But the goal, and this is from Ben himself, is 310 00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:55,150 Speaker 3: to become an independently owned company with socially aligned investors. 311 00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:58,389 Speaker 3: And once again, be free to honor its social mission 312 00:17:58,530 --> 00:18:01,340 Speaker 3: and live by its brand values without compromise. 313 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:02,899 Speaker 1: What a cool guy. 314 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: Pretty cool guy. 315 00:18:03,940 --> 00:18:06,980 Speaker 1: Pretty cool guy. Obviously, I'm biased, and I guess you're 316 00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:09,780 Speaker 1: biased too, but what a cool guy. And they're trying 317 00:18:09,820 --> 00:18:12,060 Speaker 1: to do all of this before the world— I. 318 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:14,590 Speaker 2: Like the cut of his cookie puss. There it is. 319 00:18:14,650 --> 00:18:17,430 Speaker 2: Bring back cookie puss. He's back. He can get a 320 00:18:17,450 --> 00:18:20,689 Speaker 2: cookie puss ice cream cake to this day. Oh, my gosh. 321 00:18:20,830 --> 00:18:24,290 Speaker 1: I wish we didn't have to work after this because 322 00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:26,690 Speaker 1: it would be a perfect time to have a cookie 323 00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:30,030 Speaker 1: cake party, especially if we could do it before the 324 00:18:30,090 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: world collapses. into nuclear Armageddon. No, remember when we figured 325 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,510 Speaker 1: out that the boffins of World War II didn't just 326 00:18:42,570 --> 00:18:45,889 Speaker 1: want to make nuclear weapons really big. They wanted to 327 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:46,830 Speaker 1: make them really small. 328 00:18:46,850 --> 00:18:50,869 Speaker 3: Yeah, they wanted them to fit in little knapsacks or backpacks, 329 00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:55,250 Speaker 3: believe it or not. These weren't the only, however, crazy 330 00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:57,010 Speaker 3: nuclear power weapons of the Cold War. 331 00:18:57,030 --> 00:19:00,500 Speaker 2: We got a couple more. One in particular with the 332 00:19:00,540 --> 00:19:04,740 Speaker 2: intriguing name, the Davy Crockett nuclear rifle, which, again, seems 333 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: like it should be a weapon in the Fallout universe. 334 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like Fallout. It feels like John Carter 335 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: novels or something. It feels old school, 1950s sci-fi. And 336 00:19:16,580 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: it very much is. It's a nuclear recoilless rifle that 337 00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: you could pack on a Jeep. And you can move 338 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: it around. 339 00:19:23,420 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 2: What a great detail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got to 340 00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,100 Speaker 2: be a Jeep, though. It can't be a sedan. 341 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeep lobbyists got to it hard. And the idea 342 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,460 Speaker 1: is that you could fire this thing and launch a 343 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:39,290 Speaker 1: nuclear round, a small nuclear device, up to two and 344 00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:45,390 Speaker 1: a half miles away. And if you read the research 345 00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:49,969 Speaker 1: documents on this, the U.S. Army did something really ominous. 346 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: In every document, they say, look, if we use Davy 347 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,460 Speaker 1: Crockett correctly, this rifle is not going to automatically kill 348 00:19:58,520 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: the crew. 349 00:20:00,380 --> 00:20:04,180 Speaker 2: Thank God for that. It probably will, but it's not 350 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: a foregone conclusion. 351 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,129 Speaker 1: It's so Florida man style. They said, just put the 352 00:20:08,170 --> 00:20:12,020 Speaker 1: thing on a hilt. activate it, and then run away. 353 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:12,899 Speaker 1: Run like mad. 354 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,660 Speaker 2: You may or may not have to die on that hill. Right. Exactly. 355 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. Cover your neck and your head and duck. The 356 00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:23,830 Speaker 1: Davy Crockett was manufactured. It was even put in the field, 357 00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:26,770 Speaker 1: as far as we could tell. It was never used 358 00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:30,250 Speaker 1: in combat because it was probably not as good of 359 00:20:30,290 --> 00:20:33,300 Speaker 1: an idea as chicken-powered nuclear landmines. 360 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:43,060 Speaker 2: What's not to like about that? Big chicken, little chicken. 361 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,550 Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah. After World War II, the Brits 362 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:48,970 Speaker 2: learned that their precious island was in a bit of 363 00:20:49,030 --> 00:20:52,670 Speaker 2: a precarious position. The best defense, as you say, Ben, 364 00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:55,330 Speaker 2: and I agree, is– I think you coined this phrase, actually. 365 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:57,629 Speaker 2: It's a good offense. Oh, not me. That was a 366 00:20:57,650 --> 00:20:59,950 Speaker 2: football coach somewhere. Maybe so. 367 00:21:00,869 --> 00:21:03,990 Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. So the British are in a 368 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,420 Speaker 1: tight spot, and they say, we're going to place these 369 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: landmines we call blue peacocks– Sounds like some sort of 370 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: pretty firework. 371 00:21:13,460 --> 00:21:14,740 Speaker 2: It sure does. 372 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:15,220 Speaker 4: Yeah. 373 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,780 Speaker 1: And we're going to put them across the plain of 374 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: North Germany. And this way, they say, if the Soviets 375 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: come rushing into Europe. Oh, Soviets come rushing in. 376 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:26,550 Speaker 2: All right. We'll keep it. 377 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,940 Speaker 1: That was my fault. The opposing forces are going to 378 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,810 Speaker 1: run into these nuclear landmines. But the British will figure 379 00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:39,300 Speaker 1: out there's a big problem. That part of the world 380 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,780 Speaker 1: gets really cold. And if it gets too cold, their 381 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: landmines won't work. 382 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Ben, peacocks like 383 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,659 Speaker 2: it pretty warm. 384 00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:51,109 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. That's my understanding as well. 385 00:21:51,869 --> 00:21:55,650 Speaker 3: I've only ever seen them down California way. 386 00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: Is that true? It is true. They're actually peacocks that 387 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,420 Speaker 2: roam the grounds of the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. And you 388 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 2: know my position on exotic birds. I steer clear, but 389 00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:09,290 Speaker 2: it is cool that they exist. Yeah, yeah. 390 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:13,369 Speaker 1: You can see peacocks roaming around in the strangest places. 391 00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:17,930 Speaker 1: Birds are quite adaptable, and that is what brought them 392 00:22:18,010 --> 00:22:22,650 Speaker 1: into the conversation at the British Boffin Drawing Board of Ideas. 393 00:22:22,770 --> 00:22:26,250 Speaker 1: They said, how do we keep these landmines warm enough 394 00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:28,810 Speaker 1: to work And they said, what if we just like 395 00:22:29,490 --> 00:22:33,570 Speaker 1: put chickens inside the mines and we'll give them food 396 00:22:33,609 --> 00:22:36,510 Speaker 1: and water and they'll stay alive and their body heat 397 00:22:36,550 --> 00:22:40,390 Speaker 1: will keep the landmines warm. So this whole idea, which 398 00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: does sound like peak ridiculous history, was so hard to 399 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:50,479 Speaker 1: grok to comprehend that once the project got declassified, the 400 00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:54,130 Speaker 1: British public, thought it was malarkey. They thought it was 401 00:22:54,170 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: an April Fool's Day joke, like that famous spaghetti trees 402 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: piece from BBC. 403 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,820 Speaker 2: 100%, which if you haven't seen, it is available as 404 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 2: a video for you. You can watch it online. 405 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,050 Speaker 1: And we'll blow through a couple of other ones quickly here. 406 00:23:10,109 --> 00:23:13,590 Speaker 1: There's Atomic Annie. This was a nuclear field cannon. It 407 00:23:13,609 --> 00:23:16,649 Speaker 1: could fire a nuclear shell up to 20 miles. It 408 00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:18,730 Speaker 1: was fired once in 1953 at a test in Nevada 409 00:23:18,750 --> 00:23:23,860 Speaker 1: in And you can see it in a video. One 410 00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: fun fact, they also paraded this atomic Annie in the 411 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,730 Speaker 1: inaugural parade of President Dwight D. 412 00:23:33,910 --> 00:23:34,550 Speaker 2: Eisenhower. 413 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:39,929 Speaker 1: Presumably, it wasn't looted with, you know, nuclear munition. But 414 00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:42,830 Speaker 1: remember back when our presidential parades used to be good? 415 00:23:43,340 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, man. 416 00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:48,139 Speaker 3: Speaking of which, not to clown the man exactly as 417 00:23:48,180 --> 00:23:49,450 Speaker 3: much as is warranted. 418 00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:52,889 Speaker 2: Did you see President Xi Jinping is in town? 419 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:53,550 Speaker 1: Yes. 420 00:23:53,869 --> 00:23:56,430 Speaker 3: And there's a really great clip where he and Trump 421 00:23:56,490 --> 00:23:58,530 Speaker 3: are standing side by side with Trump holding a salute 422 00:23:58,810 --> 00:24:03,340 Speaker 3: and then cringing visibly when a military flyover happens. 423 00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:04,939 Speaker 2: Like he looks genuinely spooked. 424 00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:10,550 Speaker 1: We've got some genuinely spooked. strange stuff to get to 425 00:24:11,410 --> 00:24:14,750 Speaker 1: with weird nuclear experiments. Noel, I think we may have 426 00:24:14,790 --> 00:24:20,250 Speaker 1: mentioned it previously, but the Trinity test was super top secret. 427 00:24:20,510 --> 00:24:25,950 Speaker 1: There are some great pieces of fiction or what will 428 00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:29,540 Speaker 1: we call Oppenheimer? Will we call it an adaptation? 429 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, a blockbuster, you know, but weird one, too. 430 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the thing there is Christopher Nolan 431 00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 3: really just has become one of the only truly, you know, 432 00:24:41,650 --> 00:24:44,450 Speaker 3: sure thing box office names in directing. 433 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:49,530 Speaker 1: And in the story of Oppenheimer, you're going to learn 434 00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:54,210 Speaker 1: a lot about the U.S. 's mad secret rush, a 435 00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:59,930 Speaker 1: true conspiracy to create nuclear weapons and We don't know 436 00:25:00,030 --> 00:25:04,390 Speaker 1: how history would have gone if Kodak went public with 437 00:25:04,450 --> 00:25:07,620 Speaker 1: their knowledge. This is so crazy. Kodak, the camera company, 438 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,260 Speaker 1: almost blew the whistle on nuclear arms. And it's all 439 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: because they had to use cardboard that is not contaminated 440 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:20,510 Speaker 1: with any radioactive substance because of the way camera film works, right? 441 00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:23,850 Speaker 1: And so in August of 1945, one of their scientists says, 442 00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:30,780 Speaker 1: hang on. Why is all our camera stock, why is 443 00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:32,740 Speaker 1: all our film fogging up? 444 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, real canary in the coal mine there. I'm taking 445 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: a look into that phenomenon. 446 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 3: One of the scientists working for the Kodak company determined 447 00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:42,869 Speaker 3: that there must have been some sort of nuclear event 448 00:25:43,710 --> 00:25:47,290 Speaker 3: near enough that it would have caused this phenomenon. 449 00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:48,090 Speaker 2: I mean, it literally is. 450 00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:51,550 Speaker 3: If it had been really near, it would have blacked 451 00:25:51,609 --> 00:25:53,709 Speaker 3: out the film entirely, but what we're talking about is 452 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 3: just enough of a little bit of fogging a lens, 453 00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: that's I think what it would look like, that they 454 00:25:59,580 --> 00:26:02,340 Speaker 3: could tell a nuclear explosion took place. And since the 455 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:05,020 Speaker 3: Trinity test was set up as top secret, this was 456 00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: a big deal. 457 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:12,419 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this scientist goes to his bosses and he says, okay, 458 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,330 Speaker 1: definitely someone is letting a lot of radiation into the environment. 459 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: And his bosses say, shh. So he doesn't talk about 460 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: this until 1949. And instead of going public, Kodak is 461 00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:31,780 Speaker 1: putting air filters on their film factories to keep the 462 00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:32,619 Speaker 1: radiation out. 463 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:33,899 Speaker 2: Pretty neat. 464 00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:37,940 Speaker 1: Pretty neat. Something to crack a nuclear brew to, right? 465 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: Hey, look at that. Ben, you are really, there are 466 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,980 Speaker 2: segues today. We're on fire today, man. You're killing it 467 00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:44,699 Speaker 2: with the dad jokes. You know, thanks, Bob. 468 00:26:45,670 --> 00:26:47,470 Speaker 3: I'm a walking dad joke, and I come by it 469 00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:50,649 Speaker 3: honestly because I am an actual dad. But you teased 470 00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:54,139 Speaker 3: the idea of a nuclear brew, like a Nuka-Cola type situation. 471 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So picture this. We're hanging out, minding our 472 00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: own business, and then a nuclear bomb goes off. You 473 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,429 Speaker 1: see that mushroom cloud in the distant horizon. You get 474 00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:11,189 Speaker 1: the shockwave. There are fires everywhere, chaos, pandemonium, dogs and 475 00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:14,530 Speaker 1: cats sleeping together, and you have survived, and you think, 476 00:27:15,090 --> 00:27:18,770 Speaker 1: I'm kind of thirsty. What do we do, Noel, in 477 00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:19,540 Speaker 1: that situation? 478 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,380 Speaker 3: Well, Ben, there's no running water, at least not where 479 00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 3: you are, but there is a little bit of a 480 00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 3: bodega nearby, a convenience store. Sadly, it's been crushed by 481 00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:34,500 Speaker 3: the shockwave, but as in any post-apocalyptic scenario. 482 00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:37,129 Speaker 2: Shout out, Fallout. Well, that's where you go, man, to 483 00:27:37,270 --> 00:27:40,290 Speaker 2: find your canned goods, to find your bottles and cans. 484 00:27:40,510 --> 00:27:44,010 Speaker 2: Just clap your hands. So you got to wonder... What's 485 00:27:44,109 --> 00:27:47,710 Speaker 2: okay and what's not okay? How much radiation, you know, 486 00:27:47,770 --> 00:27:49,670 Speaker 2: how much rat away am I going to have to take? 487 00:27:49,930 --> 00:27:50,570 Speaker 1: There we go. 488 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:51,060 Speaker 2: There we go. 489 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: I love that reference. Could I grab one of these 490 00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: sodas or one of these beers and will I survive 491 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: drinking it? Also, how's it going to taste? This is 492 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: a true story, folks. In 1957, the U.S. government was 493 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,500 Speaker 1: so worried about this that they paid for a study called, quote, 494 00:28:12,830 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: the effect of nuclear explosions on commercially packaged beverages. 495 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,940 Speaker 2: You know, the more you know. Written by three executives 496 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: from the Can Manufacturers Institute. That's so shady. 497 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,889 Speaker 3: And the Glass Container Manufacturers Institute for the Federal Civil 498 00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:35,830 Speaker 3: Defense Administration. The study says that after placing cans and 499 00:28:35,850 --> 00:28:38,730 Speaker 3: bottles of soda and beer next to an actual atomic explosion, 500 00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: after measuring subsequent radiation... and actual taste tests. Which one 501 00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: is the most radiated? You know, it's the Pepsi challenge. 502 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,540 Speaker 3: You can grab a can, pop the top, and drink away. 503 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,060 Speaker 3: It turns out it's mainly okay. 504 00:28:53,660 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good news. We always like to end on 505 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: good news. So this study, we said it comes out 506 00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:05,610 Speaker 1: in 1957. It's based on research from 1956. They exploded 507 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:10,110 Speaker 1: two nuclear bombs. One had the equivalent of 20 kilobytes, 508 00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: kilotons of TNT and the other had 30 kilotons. This 509 00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: was at, of course, a test site in Nevada. They 510 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: put these cans and bottles of beer and soda and 511 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,090 Speaker 1: carbonated water at various measured distances away from ground zero. 512 00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:30,110 Speaker 1: They would bury them, they would place them on top 513 00:29:30,150 --> 00:29:32,590 Speaker 1: of wooden boxes, or they would just chuck them over 514 00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:36,490 Speaker 1: to the ground. The closest can was about a thousand 515 00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:38,070 Speaker 1: feet away from the blast site. 516 00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:41,570 Speaker 3: Well, Ben, I think any of us who read like the, 517 00:29:41,770 --> 00:29:45,690 Speaker 3: the road or any of these post-apocalyptic books where people are, 518 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,340 Speaker 3: you know, stockpiling canned goods and bottled, you know, goods. 519 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: Okay. 520 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 3: Maybe they're safe. Maybe they won't kill you, but are 521 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:54,900 Speaker 3: they going to taste like radiation-y? 522 00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:57,410 Speaker 1: That's the big question. 523 00:29:57,490 --> 00:29:57,770 Speaker 2: Yeah. 524 00:29:57,790 --> 00:30:01,209 Speaker 1: And luckily, our pals at NPR came through with that question. 525 00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:06,250 Speaker 1: They said, radiation aside, will this stuff actually taste good? 526 00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: And what they found is, first off, the blast actually 527 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: didn't destroy all the cans and bottles. A bunch of 528 00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:19,900 Speaker 1: them would be, you know, cracked open or they would 529 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: be crushed by falling debris. They might be shattered completely. 530 00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:28,990 Speaker 1: But even the ones closest to detonation, which were radioactive, 531 00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:35,070 Speaker 1: were judged safe for emergency use. And they immediately, as 532 00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:38,510 Speaker 1: you said, they went into a round of taste test. 533 00:30:38,730 --> 00:30:40,870 Speaker 1: You got to wonder, like, who gets that job? Is 534 00:30:40,910 --> 00:30:43,150 Speaker 1: that a volunteer or are you in trouble? 535 00:30:43,410 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: Maybe someone's just really into it. You know what it 536 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:46,300 Speaker 2: reminds me of, Ben? 537 00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:50,020 Speaker 3: There's a think it's a local brand um monday night 538 00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:53,540 Speaker 3: brewery oh they have emergency beer emergency drinking beer that's 539 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 3: what it's called i love the name i love the 540 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,690 Speaker 3: name yeah and so how i think in case of 541 00:30:58,730 --> 00:30:59,730 Speaker 3: emergency right. 542 00:30:59,650 --> 00:31:04,690 Speaker 1: And however these uh these folks these brave uh scientists 543 00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: got hired to taste uh these irradiated beverages they said 544 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,380 Speaker 1: look it's not that bad but there is a slight 545 00:31:14,970 --> 00:31:18,110 Speaker 1: flavor change, and one of our favorite lines from the 546 00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:22,690 Speaker 1: study says the beers that were closest to the explosion were, quote, 547 00:31:23,210 --> 00:31:24,230 Speaker 1: definitely off. 548 00:31:24,890 --> 00:31:28,860 Speaker 2: The most blasted. Yeah, I think that's how they put it. 549 00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:31,740 Speaker 2: But still, apparently, not that bad. 550 00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:34,940 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the question is... Still so good you could 551 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: drink with your mouth. 552 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:36,820 Speaker 2: Yes, there it is. 553 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: If you find yourself near an atomic blast and you 554 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,580 Speaker 1: run short of potable water, yes, You can chug a Coke, 555 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:47,900 Speaker 1: you can sip a beer, just don't expect it to 556 00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: taste awesome. 557 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:53,540 Speaker 2: Well, and let's remember that the earliest, you know, beers 558 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,620 Speaker 2: and fermented drinks were in large part because None of 559 00:31:57,660 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: the water was potable. So they had to ferment it 560 00:31:59,940 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: so they could actually get liquid sustenance. 561 00:32:03,180 --> 00:32:05,860 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point, actually. And maybe it's a 562 00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:08,750 Speaker 1: story for another day because we have so much more 563 00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:11,950 Speaker 1: stuff we want to get to. But I say we 564 00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:13,930 Speaker 1: call it here on Nuclear Beer, you guys. 565 00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:16,250 Speaker 2: Oh, I think so. Before we end, though, I think 566 00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:17,870 Speaker 2: Max has something to say. 567 00:32:17,970 --> 00:32:18,490 Speaker 1: What's on your mind? 568 00:32:18,510 --> 00:32:21,490 Speaker 4: Yeah. I just want to shout out Monday Night Brewery. 569 00:32:21,570 --> 00:32:24,670 Speaker 4: Their main location is in West Midtown of Atlanta. I 570 00:32:24,690 --> 00:32:26,890 Speaker 4: want to shout them out, though, because as a bartender 571 00:32:26,910 --> 00:32:29,710 Speaker 4: and bar manager, the people at Monday Night are super cool. 572 00:32:29,850 --> 00:32:32,730 Speaker 3: There's some real cool breweries here in Atlanta and in 573 00:32:32,750 --> 00:32:36,860 Speaker 3: the region. In Athens, we've got Creature Comforts. Here in Atlanta, 574 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,630 Speaker 3: we've got Orpheus. And there's a lot of cool... You know, 575 00:32:40,930 --> 00:32:42,580 Speaker 3: like what do you call those places? 576 00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:45,500 Speaker 2: Microbreweries? Where you can go and have a meal. 577 00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. 578 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,540 Speaker 2: Gastropubs. Yeah. Or no, just like the actual, there is 579 00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:51,900 Speaker 2: a Monday night garage, I think is what it's called. 580 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: Taproom. 581 00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:53,620 Speaker 2: There it is. 582 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,670 Speaker 1: And folks, there we are. There you are. Thank you 583 00:32:58,750 --> 00:33:02,510 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this continuing mission to 584 00:33:02,590 --> 00:33:06,340 Speaker 1: explore all things ridiculous about history. Big shout out to 585 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,660 Speaker 1: Max Monday Night Williams. Big, big shout out to A.J. 586 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:14,540 Speaker 1: Bahamas Jacobs, the puzzler, who is going by Bermuda these days, 587 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: at least through October. 588 00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:17,810 Speaker 2: Indeed. 589 00:33:18,010 --> 00:33:21,790 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to Christopher Asiotis and Yves Jeffcoats here in spirit. 590 00:33:21,910 --> 00:33:25,690 Speaker 2: Jonathan Strickland, the quizster. A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, the puzzler. 591 00:33:26,430 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: And big thanks to you, fellow ridiculous historians. 592 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. 593 00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 594 00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:43,890 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.