WEBVTT - Episode 7: A Guide to Gapping 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:01.240 The guys from Ping. 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:03.880 They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.000 I just love that I can hit any shot I 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:06.600 kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.240 Hello everybody, Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:16.560 I'm Shane Bacon. That is Marty Jerts and Marty. How 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:18.160 we doing great? 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.040 Shane loving it in the office and try and solve problems. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.959 I just by the way, Marty, I just got a 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.360 new PLD in the mail, and I went with the mallet. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.880 I went a little bit more mallet style. I had 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:34.640 a little bit more of a blade one in the 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.479 previous iteration stamping on the bottom. Have kind of a 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.159 little bit of a equation, if you will, with like 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.919 my kids and my dog's names on the bottom of it. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.839 But this is something I really believe in. I went 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.280 out today. You know, I've got the putting green in 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.479 the backyard. I went out there. I set up for 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.320 a ten footer. I feel like, you gotta make the 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:56.520 first putt with a new putter. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:58.880 You I made it. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.120 I made it in But you know, it's like you 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.959 can't miss the first putt with a brand new, beautiful putter, right. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.160 You gotta make that thing to give it the good 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:09.760 vibes you need as you go forward. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.480 Yep, I saw. I was at the range last night. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.200 I saw a guy in the range. He is the 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.560 best scratch golfer at my club, and he was he 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:18.920 bought a new fancy cheft and he was screwing it 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.399 in and he's all excited, and I was. I was 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.480 sneaking over there to see how that first shot went. 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.440 You need to hit the first drive with the new driver. Well, 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.480 you need to hit the first wedge. You need to 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.200 clip it. I remember I had a friend of mine 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.760 one time. He hold out with a new wedge, brand 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.440 new wedge in the bag, hold out, first swing with it. 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.240 Oh boy, never hit another good shot with it. Last 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.080 lasted like four months in his bag. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.920 He said. I I exhausted the good. 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.760 Swing the first time out, and that thing never produced 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.560 another positive. But hopefully the putter will will produce it. 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.200 It's one of the more beautiful ones I have ever had. 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.080 But Marty, today I wanted to jump in and dive 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.200 into an issue with a lot of golfers. An issue 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.600 maybe the golfers don't even understand they have. And this 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.120 isn't just everyday players. This is a professional golfer issue 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.600 as well, and it's you know, it really kind of 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.920 goes back to the rules of golf. We can have 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.080 fourteen clubs in our bag. That's the maximum allowed in 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.400 a golf bag to compete and play in tournaments. And 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.280 I'd say, you know, everyday players abide by this rule 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.239 for the most part. I mean, occasionally you might see 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.520 somebody with sixteen or seventeen clubs, and then maybe they 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.480 have a desert club if they're out in Arizona. But 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.600 fourteen clubs is the number, and when you only get 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:34.960 fourteen sounds like a lot. If I went upstairs and 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.320 ask my wife, who's not a golfer, does fourteen clubs 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.519 kind of cover, you know, the basis of a golf round, 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.880 she'd probably go, yeah, of course, that sounds like a ton. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.560 But as golfers, we know that fourteen typically means there's 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.000 a space in our bag that has a hole. And 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.120 so I wanted to dive a little bit into that 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.600 because gapping isn't just a golfer issue, but it's a 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.600 company issue and it's something Peeing has spent a lot 0:02:58.639 --> 0:02:59.680 of time trying to solve. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.840 Yeah, Shane, I think I think you introduced the topic great, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.120 which is like what is gapping? Like what does it 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.240 mean to the everyday golfer? What does gapping mean? Like 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.920 it might mean like you have even space between your irons, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.840 like some people might think that. Some people might think 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.680 it's like, well, which wedges do you play? You know? 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.880 I think what we should do is like define it 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.400 a little bit and you let it off. It's like 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.079 you got fourteen club It's an optimization issue. Right when 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.480 I put my engineering hat on it. It's like you 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.639 got your driver that's designed to do pretty much one thing, 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.160 which is go very like as far as possible while 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.800 being mindful of distance. We'll talk about that sometimes distance 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.840 verse accuracy. Then you have your putter, which that's doing 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.960 its job and with rare exceptions people with two drivers 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.800 or two putters, you got twelve clubs in between. How 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.040 do you slice and dice those to help you play 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:49.720 your best golf? 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:49.960 Right? 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.880 I think that's a good definition. Like what gapping is. 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.280 We called it set makeup or bridge bridge fitting or 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.120 what have you. And then yeah, I think You're right. 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.200 I think not a lot of people know like what 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.040 to do or how to solve it, or you know what, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.520 what does your fitter do? You know, when you're trying 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.080 to solve these problems. So there's there's like a lot 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.240 of self experimentation that happens when you're trying to figure 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:12.920 this out. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.040 When you talk about gapping, Marty, and you talk about 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:20.160 an average golfer, an everyday player versus a professional golfer, 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.240 are the gaps different for those two groups? 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.600 Yeah? No, that's a great point. I mean, I think 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.320 that the faster swing speed players you're gapping is more 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.640 about how far do you carry the ball? Like your 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.800 PGA tour player, Man, they're doing their calculations. It's all 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.760 about Okay, I gotta what's the cover you're solving for 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.920 that cover number where you want to pitch the golf ball, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.280 And it's a lot about carry. The slower you are 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.960 in clubhead speed, the more it is about your total gaps, right, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.320 you know, it's like carry plus roll. So we've even 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.080 built our tools like that. And one fun thing, Shane, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.440 we've kind of noticed in our in our you know, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.960 data analysis that we've done, is that there's a good 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.400 way to kind of figure out what your optimal gap is, 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:02.400 which is if you ever go on a launch monitor 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.240 going for a fitting, and we and a lot of 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.839 our competitors fit with a seven iron. You take whatever 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.880 your ball speed is in your seven iron in miles 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.520 per hour, so yours minor close to the same, where 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.640 like one thirty ish, so one hundred and thirty miles 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.800 an hour with our seven iron. You divide that by 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:22.640 ten and that's thirteen. That's a good spacing between your irons. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.200 And that works whether you're a tour player or if 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.680 you hit your seven iron shorter, you're like eighty miles 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.279 an hour seven iron eight yard gap is good if 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.680 your Tony Fenow thirteen and a half yards is like 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.320 a good gap. So it's kind of a cool, fun 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:37.280 little trick you can do. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.479 Yes, I mean, so you guys have done studies and 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.120 tried to figure out the exact number between clubs, because I. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.160 Think when you know a. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.600 Vision how far your golf clubs go. You know, people 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.920 love round numbers, right, they love something in it and 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.159 a zero. I know, tour guys people like yourself really 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.680 understand how far a stock club goes. The everyday player 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.640 probably struggles a little bit more in that department, ay, 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.000 because they don't hit it as consistently and be maybe 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.480 they just don't understand how far they hit certain golf clubs. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.840 They might in their brain think I hit it, if 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:07.520 I hit it perfect, it goes this distance. 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.560 But maybe what your average would be. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.120 But thirteen yards that seems to be the number that 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.760 you'd like to really kind of hammer when you're talking 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:15.320 about gappy. 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.240 Yeah, if your ball speed's one thirty, which is us 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.919 you know what I mean. So that's the thing we hear. Okay, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.200 ten yard gaps is good, fifteen is good. Whatever it 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.599 scales to your speed, and that's a good way to 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.559 kind of just get to that number kind of quick, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.599 you know. But Shane, one fun thing we've done is 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.920 to try to figure out, well, you know, where are 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.720 people on the golf course, where are they hitting most 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.240 of their shots? Because if you're trying to optimize your 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.400 bag and you're like, okay, it sounds convenient to have 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.160 evenly spaced gaps for all these twelve clubs, Well that 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.200 might not be where you are playing a lot of golf. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.039 And so we did this really fun thing in the 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.040 last couple of years where we used our data partnership 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.440 with Arcos, which provides like en course play tens of 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.800 millions of shots. We have access to of golfers of 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:01.960 all all different skill levels, playing all different types of 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.000 courses all over the world. We could go in and say, Okay, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.440 where are these golfers playing, where are they hitting these 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.840 different clubs on the course, and should we design tighter 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.120 spacing where they are the most. That was kind of 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.720 like our hypothesis, right, And so that was a really 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.320 fun exercise we did and we went through. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.000 So Okay, for somebody like me, right, I have always 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.000 battled with the kind of high and low. So my 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.760 gapping issue is either I'm adding a longer club. So 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.480 I mean, I've always been a big kind of two 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.880 iron guy. I love the idea of two iron and 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.240 three iron, but I feel like I'm going to hit 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.640 a hell of a lot more wedges than I'm ever 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.520 going to hit a two iron or three iron in 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.360 around the golf. So for me, I've always been a 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.440 four wedge setup guy. I like having the pitching wedge, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.520 the gap wedge of sandwich, and the lob wedge because 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.760 as you said, you're diving into information, you're diving into data, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.200 you're setting all this stuff, and you're seeing that those 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.520 golf shots for somebody with my distance are going to 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.280 be in those scoring areas. So that's where it should 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.320 be maybe tighter versus a four or five iron. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.320 That's exactly the hypothesis, and we're still working to try 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.200 to figure that out exactly right, Like, you know, you 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.720 might not hit that that driving iron a ton or 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.640 depend on your particular golf course. You may play your 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.440 home course where it's like, yeah, you got to chip 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.600 it off. You might be hitting your little stinger driving 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.560 iron off eight of the t boxes. I know one 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.200 of my courses at my home course is like that, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.319 Like that's a very important club on that particular golf course. 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.400 But this data analysis what it allows to do, Shane, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.080 And we're kind of sharing my screen here to look 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.200 at a chart that shows where golfers are on the 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.640 golf course and then what clubs did they hit from 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.120 those different distances. Okay, And what's fun to see here 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:51.560 is you see that it kind of looks like a 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:52.840 camel shape to it. 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.240 Right at Campbelback Mountain, exactly one of those big humps. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.360 You see there is centered right around a hundred and 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.120 forty to one hundred and fifty yards. You see this 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.640 enormous spike and this has broken down, Shade. We broke 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.440 this down into players who hit their driver like one 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.440 seventy to two o four, two five to two twenty four, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.200 two twenty five to two thirty nine, and then two 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.560 forty and further and all those players you see the 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.360 same big spike at like one hundred and forty five yards. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.080 Yeah, that's the sweet spot. 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.880 That is the sweet spot. And so we've actually run 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.520 the analytics and you hit over fifty percent of your 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.120 iron shots. So that's say, let's call it your five 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.760 iron through pitching wedge or four through pitch, whatever that is. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.440 You hit over fifty percent of those shots between one 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.079 hundred and twenty and one hundred and sixty five yards, right, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.560 And so what does that mean to equipment or how 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.520 you should set up your bag? We is the club 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.320 company paying man. We better designed you to have some 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.319 tight spacing in that area, right. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.240 Marty, have you ever thought or has anybody ever messed 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.079 around with like half irons in that department where I 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.040 mean you're thinking like an eight and a half iron 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.000 or a nine and a half iron, I mean obviously, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.120 so it's not something that we've seen on the market. 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.680 But have there ever been as you're diving into these 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.120 types of analytics and you know, if you're not seeing 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.600 this and you watch this on YouTube, you can see 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.440 what Marty is talking about in terms of this distance 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.920 to whole distribution. But I mean this chart really shows 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.679 the one hundred and forty yard is kind of the 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.040 sweet spot. Has there ever been any thought into like 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.440 half irons for those lower you know, irons before you 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:23.199 get to the wedges. 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.560 Yeah, Well, one fun story about that is, you know, 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.640 you may have heard of this one Like Lee Westwood 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.680 plays two U wedges. He's played two gap wedges, and 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.800 he's kind of funny. You know, he writes his yardages 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.640 on the back of the clubs for his wife who's 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.880 caddying for him, and so he has two gap wedges 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:39.600 and so he's like, oh, well, which which U wedge 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.600 should I hit? So he's kind of figured out how 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.600 to do that. What we've done is instead of saying, hey, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.679 eight iron, eight and a half iron is you know, 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.440 over a long period of time, the industry and we've 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.000 certainly done. It is you start squeezing in more wedges, right, So, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.040 like in our new G four to thirty iron set, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.680 you go to pitching what you go to hitching wedge, 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.120 then we go to a forty five degree, then a 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.120 fifty degree. So you really try to like tighten up 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.840 that spacing because we've seen that as a big problem. Like, 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:10.920 you know, as folks want to go in they get 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.760 fit for irons, they go further, which is generally a 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.400 good thing as long as they're going high and landing steep. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.640 That's fine. Like have somebody hit an eight iron instead 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.360 of a seven is a good thing as long as 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.800 they land it steep. But the problem is is as 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.800 you start straining in those lofts. You know, we found 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.079 even on our g iron designs, we created bigger gaps 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:32.760 right in here where golfers needed the most. So we 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.440 fixed that and we fixed it by adding another club 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.040 to the bag. Really and so it's kind of like 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.360 that half iron approach chain. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.080 Do you what do you say to people that tell you, okay, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.520 this is this is too complicated. There are too many 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:45.920 wedges in the bag. You guys are offering me too 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.480 many you know, too many different tools for an area 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.400 where I kind of hit a wedge all the time. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.760 Yeah, I think I think that's where you got to 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.960 tell that data story, you know, and we're trying to 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.080 you know, all of our fitters and our fitting network, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.240 we've showed them this data mind and they love it 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.480 because it's one it's something you don't you can't really 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.160 measure in a fitting, And I think that's where we're 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.520 trying to develop these tools, which is like, hey, after 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.440 you go get fit, you get fit with a seven iron, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.880 but when you go play golf, you're going to be 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.719 having a lot of shots in this area, so you're 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.760 gonna need clubs for that area. So I think it's 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.599 kind of a you know, using the data and empowering 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.480 and tell telling those stories and say uh and marrying 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:26.599 those two things up quite quite frankly. 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.080 Where do players have their biggest gap? Because I know 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.960 you've showed some information about where they hit the most 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.959 shots from. Where do you typically find that gap being 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.200 the biggest issue for a player? 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.319 Yeah, I think it's in a couple areas. It's it's 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.520 they don't have the right transition between their pitching wedge 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.640 and you know, their gap wet sandwich. Whatever that situation 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:46.960 is can cause a lot of problems for what we 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.720 were just talking about. You know, I've Shane, I've played 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.720 in pro ams around here in the Southwest section and 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.320 we'll be playing like, you know, they could take my 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.160 drive six times. And you know Arizona golf, you're always 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.320 at like one thirty. You know, one thirty five. You're 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.080 a Greyhawk like driving down there one thirty five. And 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.640 I play with these ams and they play these strong 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:10.200 lofted juiced irons where they're pitching wedge literally will go 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.320 like further than mine. They'll go like one fifty five. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.880 Then their next club is a sandwich. They lay that 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:16.640 bloop up in the air because they don't have the 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.160 right spin loft. It goes like one hundred. So we're 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.880 at one thirty all day and they got no club 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.080 for one thirty. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.120 They don't even feel our gap here. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.760 Yeah, they don't even realize that. So this is what 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.920 our data is kind of validating, is like, hey, that's 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.720 one real weak spot and then the other one, Shane, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.160 I think where is maybe more more obvious is you know, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.880 how do you how do you build the bag between 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.920 your your lowest lofted three wood, your hybrids in your 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.839 irons and getting the The gap at that point is 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.400 both a distance gap, but it's also like a trajectory gap. 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:49.920 It's like how high do you need to hit that 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.080 golf ball? Right? So those are the two areas that 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:54.679 I think people could use a lot of help with. 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.240 Is that more often the case with tour players? You 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.120 see it obviously when they're further away from the hole. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.640 I mean you're thinking about a player that has let's 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.840 say they have four iron through wedges and maybe they've 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:07.640 got a three wood. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.319 It's finding that tool. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.840 And you and I've discussed, you know the obviously, the 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.599 popularity of the seven wood, and I mean the crossover 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.400 world has has really, in my opinion, changed that space 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.200 for me at least. I mean, I have a three 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.760 iron crossover that I've been playing for years in different iterations, 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.520 and it is huge for me because the versatility I 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.880 find with it. It's not just that I can mash 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:31.240 it and really get it out there if I need 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.600 two fifty, but I can kind of hit that softer 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.120 one with the crossover if I need to hit the 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.080 two thirty five shot. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.560 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think you're a good example of, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.520 like of what those tour players do. And you know, 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.800 tour players quite often will travel with maybe you know, 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.760 sixteen or seventeen clubs and two of them they'll be 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.520 swapping in weekend and week out. You know, I think 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.840 Victor at the Masters this year thirteen and fifteen, we 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.880 built them a seven wood literally for those two sh 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.840 some of those approach shots, and we saw them the 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:04.960 entire tournament and on the weekend hitting it on the 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.960 hitting on the green. He could obviously not do that, Shane. 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.520 I mean, gus is built for lefties. I mean, you 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.800 know that's a separate topic, right, but you'd be able 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:14.960 to hit your high cut in there maybe with your crossover, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.360 but you got that ball above your feet and you 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.320 need that seven woods. So yeah, there's a lot of 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320 mixing and matching that happens weekend and week out that 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.640 quite honestly, I think the everyday golfer doesn't need that. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.800 They don't need to be mixing those clubs. Maybe you're 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.640 maybe you're not traveling as much and you're playing most 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.120 of your golfer your home course. You can kind of 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.840 optimize your bag with your fourteen clubs, right, there. But yeah, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.880 the tour players do some fun stuff. They'll play you know, 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.040 seven woods short, you know, closer to hybrid length to 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.000 get the spin down, to get more control, to hit 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:43.840 more down on it. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.920 How much has that Crossover family helped in terms of 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.040 gapping because we you know, you saw the popularity what 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.480 was that probably early two thousands, this popularity boom of 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.920 the hybrid, and then we started to see the driving 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.720 iron become popular. But the issue with the driving iron 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.680 for most players was they couldn't get it up in 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.080 the air. What is the Crossover family done to kind 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:06.480 of help in terms of that gapping? 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.360 Yeah, so I think it's been great. It's been nice 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.720 to have all these options in that space. So you got, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.160 generally speaking, you got irons that are gonna fly the lowest. 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.960 Then we designed our crossover to be quote unquote you know, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.560 kind of not a driving iron because it does go higher. Now, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.240 skill player like yourself, you can still sting it down 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.080 there and make it act like a driving iron. So 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.160 you got irons, then you got crossovers that go a 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.360 little bit higher, Hybrids that go higher than high lofted 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.119 fairywoods that go the highest, right, So that's your spectrum 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.600 of options. Then it's all about you know, fitting the 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.080 right club to your course, your playing style, what you 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.200 need to do. Can you hit it low on command 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.760 or not. But that crossover has been a great option 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.880 kind of between irons and hybrids, and a lot of 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.080 people like that flat face because you can have more 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.280 workability to it as well. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:54.600 Marty. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.960 One of the coolest parts about being involved with you 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.440 guys at PING has been seen the innovation in terms 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.920 of just kind of outward thinking, you know, thinking outside 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.000 the box to help a player. And I mean, you know, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.639 I mean you're in the putting lab right now. I 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.240 mean it's a place where you can go in there 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.640 and use technology to your benefit. But I was floored 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.040 when you showed me this gapping app that you guys 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:17.960 have been working on. 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:19.399 And I know you're really proud of it. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.920 I mean we're not just talking about gapping because it's 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.879 an issue. There's also technology that PING has worked on 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.439 and now can throw it a player that not just 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.240 Marty can help them in terms of their bag set 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.960 up and keeping that gap number where it needs to be, 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.720 but also not exhausting them out on the driving range 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.200 when they're working through the bag. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.120 Yeah, I mean even a lot of us around the office, 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.320 Like I've asked a lot of our engineers here, we 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.440 have that we're at the proving grounds. We got track, man, 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.040