1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: Dead on vacation. You set off for a tropical paradise 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: and never come home. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: and Series xment eleven. Listen. When Debney McPherson Udall first 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: heard her brother Casey Palmeroy died in a terrible accident 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: in December of twenty eighteen, she couldn't shake the feeling 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: something wasn't right. The medical professional that we had to 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: read the justificates told us that it goes along the 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: lines if he was poisoned. Debeney says her sister in 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: law told them two couples were visiting them on the island. 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: When they got back to the apartment, Palmeroy and his 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: friend Caleb started having seizures started having seizures. So how 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: does that happen? Listen? She says, her sister in law 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: told them two couples were visiting them to Ring in 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen and they were out to dinner. They came 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: home and my brother's friend passed out and began having seizures, 17 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: and then my brother began having seizures. She says. They 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: cold emergency services, but it was already too late. The 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: friend had passed away, and then my brother apparently passed 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: away at the hospital. Joining right now in auster panel 21 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: to makes sense of what we know. But I first 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: want to go to Debney McPherson udall. This is Casey's 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: sister and you can find her online at Justice for 24 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: Casey and Caleb. Debnie, thank you for being with us. 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy Denie. I agree with you. Something isn't right. 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: And I remember these words and I mocked them mercilessly 27 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: at the time when doctor Henry Lee, who is a 28 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: renowned forensic scientist, said in the Oja Simpson case, something 29 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: is wrong, but you know what something is wrong. Tell 30 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: me when you first got the news about what had 31 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: happened to your brother. Well, we first got the news 32 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: on New Year's Day and it was from Barbara's sister. 33 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: She came to my parents house and along with her 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: husband and told us that there I've been an accident 35 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: in Anguilla and that Casey and his friend had passed away. Okay, 36 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait Autem, they called you. They came 37 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: to our house. But wait, where where was your house? 38 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: Barbara's sister lives in the same town as my parents, 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: which is where? Which is in Medford, Oregon? Wait a minute, 40 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: didn't this happen in Anguilla? It did so somehow the 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: news had gotten to Barbara's sister, and she's the one 42 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: who came and told us. Debne, what went through your 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: mind when you've got the sister telling you this? Could 44 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: you believe it? Did you think there was a mistake? 45 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: We were terrified. We didn't know what was what to 46 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: think it was. We were wanting to make sure that 47 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: everyone was was safe and and we didn't know what 48 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: to what to think. What were you told happened to Casey? 49 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: They didn't know. They just said that there had been 50 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: an accident. We didn't know what had happened. Why was 51 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: he in Anguilla? To start with? He was an Anguilla 52 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: to go to medical school? And his wife where did 53 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: they meet? They met at a medical convention there in Fresno, California. 54 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: Was she also a med student? No? She was a 55 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: medical professional and Casey was a salesman. What is that? 56 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: What is a medical professional like a physician's assistant and nurse? What? 57 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: She's a nurse practitioner with a edital two endorsements? Okay? 58 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: And who is Caleb? Caleb Guillory is one of Casey's 59 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: childhood friends, and why was he Caleb in Anguilla. Caleb 60 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: and his wife traveled to Anguilla to spend the holiday 61 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: with Barbara and Casey. So let me understand, Caleb Guillory 62 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: and his wife Carly went down to visit your brother 63 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: Casey and his wife Barbara. Yes, that's correct, Okay. Straight 64 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: out to Katie Strite joining US multi media journalists with 65 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: Spectrum US thirteen in Orlando. Katie, thank you for being 66 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,559 Speaker 1: with us. Um you can find her on insta at 67 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:49,119 Speaker 1: Katie Strite. Tell me about Anguilla. What is it? Where 68 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: is it? How big is it? Well, it's a it's 69 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: an island in the Caribbean, and it's it's a pretty 70 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: small island. Actually, you know, very hot vacations and that's uh, 71 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: that is kind of you know, a very hot a 72 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: vacation spot. I'm just thinking about. I mean, I know 73 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: they've got very high end resorts there, like four seasons. Um. 74 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: I know, it's a British territory and it's got huge 75 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: stretches of white sand beaches. Um uh, it's a really 76 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: big vacation spot and gorgeous. So we've got one the 77 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: brother Casey there in medical school and his friend Caleb 78 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: comes to visit along with his wife. So that is 79 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: what we know, and we know that somehow Casey is dead. 80 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: But that's not all we learned that. When did you learn, debony, 81 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: that not only is your brother dead, but his best 82 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: friend too. Well, we learned right away that both Casey 83 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: and Caleb had passed away. We just didn't know how 84 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: and we didn't have any details at all. Guys, how 85 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: did it get up to this point? Take a listen 86 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: to our Francis Kobi, the Eagle Point native, moved to 87 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: California in two thousand and four to work as an 88 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: actor and producer. That's also where he met his wife, Barbara. 89 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: The two were married six years before trading in the 90 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: Hollywood lights for a much quieter life thousands of miles 91 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: away on the Eastern Caribbean island of Anguilla. There's actually 92 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: a surprise that he wanted to go to medical school. 93 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: It really wasn't a dream of his. But we were 94 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: excited for him. We were all excited for him because 95 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: this was something spectacular that he was doing with his life, 96 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: something spectacular that he Casey is doing with his life, 97 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: becoming a doctor listen. They were living in the district 98 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: of Violin Harbor, just a few miles away from the 99 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: Saint James School of Medicine, where Paul m Roy was 100 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: attending school. He loved it over there. It was beautiful. 101 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: They were living in Paradise. Four months later, tragedy struck. 102 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: We're able to communicate with his wife, and she had 103 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: told us that it was an accident. Like to you, 104 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: Debnie McPherson, You doll, what type of accident were you 105 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: told that claimed the life of your brother Casey. We 106 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: weren't told. We didn't know. We weren't told any details 107 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: at that time. You know. Joining me right now twenty 108 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: seven years as an FBI agent. You can find him 109 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: at Bobby chacone dot com. He is a writer of 110 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: audibles After the Fault. Bobby, thank you for being with us. 111 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: Why is it, Bobby, whenever anyone dies on one of 112 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: these islands, it's always shrouded in mystery. I mean, you 113 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: think about it. You've got Natalie Holloway. We don't know. 114 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: I know what happened to her, but I don't know 115 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. They were You've got Robin Gardner, Uh, 116 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: it just goes on and on and on. You've got 117 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: George Smithy falls off the craze. Shit body never found it. 118 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: Just why is that, Bobby? You know, Nancy. I think 119 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: it's because as as popular as these places off of 120 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: vacation spots and many people go and visit them. Um, 121 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: in the end, they are very insular. They're very close society. 122 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot of corruption, both in the police department 123 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: and the courts and in politics. I think these are 124 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: very you know, everybody knows everybody else. And we've seen 125 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: time and time again people get away with murder, and 126 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: they literally get away with murder in these places because 127 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: either corruption or uh you know, uh, bad police work 128 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: or no police work. Uh. And and and these small 129 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: island nations are sovereign nations. Sometimes they protectorate's of the 130 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: UK or someplace like that, but they kind of can 131 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: operate on their own and there's not a lot of 132 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: reach that you know, places like the US can have 133 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: in the you know, law enforcement from a year and 134 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: go there. You know, you and I have both seen 135 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: that in these cases. So I think it's they're very 136 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: insular societies and it's hard to for us to have 137 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: any influence there very difficult to have any influence there. 138 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: Another thing Bobby chkne joining us from an FBI agent 139 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: is that their law enforcement is nothing compare everybody f 140 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: wines and carries on about the US law enforcement. I 141 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: don't get it. They've got the best police force, state, local, 142 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: and federal in the world, in the world. In Great Britain, 143 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: they come after you with a stick. Okay, you're robbing 144 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: a bank with a gun, they come for you with 145 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: a stick. Okay, that's a whole other can of worms. 146 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: But on these islands, their police forces are rudimentary. I mean, 147 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm really surprised they came up with what they thought 148 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: was the cause of death in this case. I mean 149 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: they I mean, you tell them, hey, go get touch DNA, 150 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: It's like, what what's that? Nanthy? And you know, you 151 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: and I both note that for its excience of comes 152 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: such a long way, you know, in recent years and 153 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: being used in terrifical ways to solve cases. But we 154 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: also know that crime scenes need to be done quickly 155 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: and write the first time, or you can lose evidence forever. 156 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: And unfortunately that happens in some of these cases where 157 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: law enforcement is not very good or not even existent 158 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: at all, or this corruption, and then you lose that vital, 159 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: valuable evidence from the crime scene that you could have obtained. 160 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: You know quickly, it's like Humpty dumpty. You lose it. 161 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: It's gone. You can never get it back. What's that 162 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: crime It's either gone with vacuuming or sweeping or whatever. 163 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: You can never put humpty dumpty back together again. It's over. 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: You can't reconstruct and get that forensic evidence. The call 165 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: came on a New Year's Day to the families that 166 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: Casey and as childhood friend friends all these years, Caleb 167 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: on the Caribbean island up Anguilla, where the both of 168 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: the two men and their wives were bringing in the holiday. 169 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: We're both dead, miraculously the wives lived. But leading up 170 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: to it, how did these two guys really know each other? Listen, 171 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: we've known Caleb since he was nine years old, so 172 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: he was like our boy too. Both men, their wives, 173 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: and another Southern organ couple were having drinks when Caleb 174 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: and Casey started having a seizure, or so the family 175 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: was told, but both men's death certificates tell a different story. 176 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: Seizures death certificates. I mean, when you first got this news. Debney, 177 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: this is Casey's sister. Your head must have been railing here. 178 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: They go into seizures and you're getting various conflicting accounts 179 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: of what happened. I mean, hold on to take a 180 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at wt VL or It says 181 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: from that moment on, things continued to go downhill. Before 182 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: they could get back to them their condo, he fell 183 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: out and went into cardiac arrest. Casey got sick himself 184 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: and he went into cardiac arrest. Ward says. All four 185 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: individuals who were there were arrested following the incident. Okay, 186 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: what were you told deaboney about the incident that claimed 187 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: the life of your brother. We were told that they 188 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: were poisoned from a beach bar. Poisoned from a beach bar, 189 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: joining us doctor Dennis Darty, medical director Right Relief Help, 190 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: and the Robert W. Dale Memorial Treatment Center at Duke University. 191 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: Doctor Darty, thank you for being with us. Thank you 192 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: that what could have caused. I mean, they're at a bar, 193 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: doctor Doherty, celebrating it's New Year's The four of them 194 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: are together, the two wives, the two husbands, and suddenly 195 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: one of them goes into seizures the other or Casey 196 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: tries to perform CPR, then he gets sick and they 197 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: both die. Now that sounds like a lot more than 198 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: a date rate drug GB. Yes, I mean absolutely, I 199 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: mean gamma hydroxyh B gamma hydroxy. But rate would not 200 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: kill you if it were being used as typically is 201 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: at bars. So what what could it have been? Thing 202 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: is that the time cores when I looked at it 203 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: seems to be very pored for someone even to quote 204 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: overdose on alcohol, for alcohol and any other substance, and 205 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: you absolutely right, it would be improbable in that time 206 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: and any other thing that would be added, particularly things 207 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: that are then the agent beings a valuable or whatever, 208 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be resulting in appreciated by those sympthings exactly. 209 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: I mean typically when someone's administered GHB, gama hijoxy bet. Right, 210 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: it's commonly noticed that date rate drug. It knocks you 211 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: out and then after a period of hours you come 212 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: back too with little or no recollection of what has happened. 213 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: Joining me. Also, in addition to doctor Dennis Dohugherty is 214 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: Devin Doherty, Clinical Coordinator Alcohol Drug Counselor at RIGHT Relief 215 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Help wagh in. What do you make of it? I think, well, 216 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: we think together after looking at the information we've been provided, 217 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: that these statistics and the probability that something of this 218 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: nature would happen the two individuals on the same nights 219 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: and from a couple of SIPs of a drink would 220 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: die and then another person would be fine, is well crazy? 221 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it. Highly unlikely, yes, 222 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: highly unlikely. Yeah, yeah, I mean typically a female slipped 223 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: GHB and she gets dizzy and passes out and that's it. 224 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: So I'm saying GHB because we all are familiar with 225 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: that was the substance. Katie Strike joining us a multimedia 226 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: journalist Respectrum News thirteen, Orlando was the substance. The poisoning 227 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: agent ever identified, not that we know of. I mean 228 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: they in the dusth certificate. Bay had a laundry list 229 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: of reasons why Kesey and Caleb died, but the actual 230 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: police itself was never was never sat in an atlasting 231 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: death certificate. Take Alestar Fransic Kobi. First, the family didn't 232 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: ask too many questions who it is and guilla investigating 233 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: the sudden deaths of two Americans. Then news outlets picked 234 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: up the story. The story started to come out, story 235 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: started to change. When they were there on the island. 236 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: They had them cremated right away, and we were in 237 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: agreement about that. After she claims police wouldn't provide her 238 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: information on his death, she says, the trail went cold. 239 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: That is very unusual. Deboni McPherson udall joining me, this 240 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: is Casey's sister. Why wouldn't police get any information because 241 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: they do not consider us next of ken and they 242 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: would only communicate with his widow. That's quite the coincidence, 243 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: isn't it that both the husbands die after just a 244 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: couple of SIPs of a drink, not even the whole drink. 245 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: One goes into immediate seizures, followed by the next and 246 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: they both die and are immediately cremated. So we're told 247 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: poisoning is a cod cause of death, but listen to 248 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: our france at Kobi. Casey's death certificate says he died 249 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: of pulmonary edema, cardiac toxicity, cardiac a, schemia, hypothermia, and seizures. 250 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: Caleb's death certificate says he died of asphyxiation, strangulation, ligature, 251 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: multiple blood force traumas and seizures. The families say there's 252 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: never been a reason for how this could have happened. Hey, 253 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: I'd love to accept their story. I'm still at a 254 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: point I'd love to accept it. If that's what happened, 255 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: that's what happened. But why would the death certificate indicate differently. Okay, 256 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: now we're getting down to it. Bobby Chicone. The death 257 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: certificate says, I don't hear anything about poisoning. It says 258 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: pulinary pulonary edema, cardiac toxicity. I'm not sure what that is, 259 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: Cardiac ishemia, hypothermia, hypothermia. I mean it's going to get 260 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: really cold, seizures. That's casey. Caleb's death certificate says he 261 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: dies of asphyxiation, strangulation both manual and ligature, multiple blunt 262 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: force trauma, and seizures. Wait, the poisoning is not consistent 263 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: with strangulation and blunt force, Bobby Chick, None at all, Nancy, 264 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: It's so unusual to have two people die and then look, 265 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: all we know is these things that were supposing all 266 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: come from the widow. We don't really have any other 267 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: information about really what happened and how it happened. We're 268 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: getting all this information widow, and now we know what 269 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: she's telling us. That they imbibe some alcohol from the 270 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: same cup and got sick does not match the physical 271 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: results of the autopsy. And to have two people, two 272 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: grown man, die from such different causes at the same time, 273 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: in the same presence of the same four other individuals, 274 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: the two widows and that other couple, I mean, it's 275 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: very very strange. Their stories just don't match the physical 276 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: evidence at the crime scene, which has been determined to 277 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: the utopsy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Devinie, if you're 278 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: seeing you, dall, I understand one wife is saying poisoning. 279 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: What does the other wife say? They say that the 280 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: deatificates are fake, that they're not correct. Okay, why would 281 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: a medical I assume it was a medical examiner, a 282 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: doctor reviewed the bodies and determined asphyxiation, strangulation, and blood trauma. 283 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: Was it a doctor, Yeah, it was. Why in the 284 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: world would there be any reason for a doctor, unknown 285 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: to these people, fake a death certificate. Karen Stark joining me, 286 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: your psychologist Adam Manhattan at Karenstart dot com. That's Karen 287 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: with a C. What do you make of it. Well, 288 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: come on, Nancy, something is very very fishy here. It 289 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: doesn't How can four people be okay, two of them 290 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: are poisoned, but the other ones aren't poisoned, And then 291 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: you get these death certificates in they're saying they're made up, 292 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: and you're talking about a foreign place when nobody can 293 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: really verify what's going on and what happened. It is 294 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: the strict one of the strangest stories, honestly, and we've 295 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: covered a lot that I have ever heard. Joining me 296 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: is Christopher Montgomery, consulting, an agent to McPherson Pomeroy Foundation 297 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: and board member at Redbanion dot com. Christopher, I find 298 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: it very hard to believe that a medical examiner faked 299 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: an autopsy report, Nancy. What I find most even more 300 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: incredible than that, is how the feather survivors, if we 301 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: call them that, at the moment pick and shoes. When 302 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: the medical examiner is at state and when the medical 303 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: examiner is faking, they're picking and choosing what they want, 304 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: their cherry pickingness. That's where I started the first problem 305 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: in all of it. Then I go from their nancy 306 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: to the fact that this is a place where where 307 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: Americans are going to medical school. This is not some 308 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: third world country Banana Republic. This is modern medicine, at 309 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: least at the hospital level. Here. These people knew what 310 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: they were doing. These parties to be accurate. Guys, take 311 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Amanda Rais. We just want 312 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: to know what happened. We want to have the truth 313 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: of what happened. Months later, she says, the family got 314 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: ahold of Pomeroy's death certificate pulmonary edema, cardiac tosicity, cardiac ishmia, hypothermia, 315 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: and seizures. The medical professional that we had to read 316 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: the justificate told us that it goes along the lines 317 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: if he was poisoned. But that wasn't the family's only surprise. 318 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: Not the family only surprise. That's an understatement. Listen, Debony 319 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: had expected her brother's friend who have died the same way. 320 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: The cause of death for him was asphyxiation, strangulation, both 321 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: ligature and manuel, multiple blunt force traumas and seizures. Today, 322 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: Palmeroy's family believes he was murdered. You're not able to 323 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 1: grieve at this time because you don't have those answers 324 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: and you don't have closure. We do need that closure 325 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: because we just need to heal. We've heard from Casey's 326 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: sister joining us, Debony, take a listen to what Caleb's 327 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: uncle has to say. My nephew's case strangulation by literature, 328 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: that's a freaking rope around your neck, or a belt 329 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: or a strap or some kind of an instrument that 330 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: is choking you. Three years later, the case is still 331 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: not going anywhere. Not one of the force suspects has 332 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: appeared before a gwyllin authorities who have gone out of 333 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: their way to make it possible for them to testify. 334 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: You know, the inquest is still ongoing in Anguilla. And 335 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: more from Kabi. The friend had passed away and then 336 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: my brother apparently passed away at the hospital. But Caleb's 337 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: death certificate shows something very different. Asphyxiation strangulation both ligature 338 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: and manual, multiple blunt force traumas and seizures, blunt force trauma, seizures, 339 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: ligature and manual strangulation. Why is there no homicide prosecution? 340 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 1: I want to go straight back to special Guests joining us. 341 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: This is Debity mac fiercing U Dahal Casey's sister. How 342 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: did his widow behave when you finally saw her. Well, 343 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: when she came to the house, we all sat down together, 344 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: and she was the spokesperson for the entire group, and 345 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: we what do you mean by the entire group? Well, 346 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: when they came to our my parents' house, the four 347 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: of them came all together. What four That would be 348 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: Caleb's widow, Carly and Barbara and Chuck and Alicia Gross. 349 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: You're Chuck and Alicia Gross. Chuck and Alicia Gross are 350 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: the other couple. And Chuck was childhood friends with Casey 351 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: and Caleb as well. So why do they all come 352 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: to Casey's family home Because they wanted to all come 353 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: together to tell us their story, okay, And what was 354 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: their story, Dabney, Well, Barbara was the spokesperson for the group. 355 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: No one else spoke. And that's your brother's wife, okay, yes, 356 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: that is his widow. And she told us that they 357 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: had gone to the beach bar and that their drinks 358 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: had been poisoned and that she had gotten sick, and 359 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: that they were all arrested and we'll never have any answers, 360 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: that we just needed to move on. She actually said 361 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: to move on, that we were never going to have 362 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: any answers, that this is too what that we just 363 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: I'm a lost for words right now because I'm transury. 364 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: Remember that day. What were the others doing is she's 365 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: telling you to move on? They were all looking down 366 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: at the ground. I don't like that. I don't like 367 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: that looking down in the ground at all. Dodger Dennis 368 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: see Darty joining us right Relief Health. What do you 369 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: make of the conflicting stories? I mean, one of the friends, 370 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: Caleb died a blood force trauma and strangulation. How did 371 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: that happen after a bad drink? Yeah? I agree, it's 372 00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: fairly ridiculous form. She'd be Some beings here are so 373 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: inconsistent and driven by the informations among one person, and 374 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: it's it's not in any way doesn't smack of a 375 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: truthful accounting of wanting, you know, trying to gather it 376 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: remation to define how I love one has been taken 377 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: from you. Doctor Jordy, have you ever heard of a 378 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: medical examiner faking an autopsy report? I've not heard of it, 379 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: but I have to comment, and I know that we 380 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: have other experts, but and I gave read in fact 381 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: because I'm compulsion about it. But there appears to me 382 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: and I just what I've seen in some states, the 383 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: immediate and the native staming is that the immediate cause 384 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: of death is method. So it sounds ridiculous to me 385 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: and it would to you. But if you died from something, 386 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: obviously that it's the three hours before, but the immediate 387 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: cond death was blood loss or hyperbolinian, you will see 388 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: a death certificate. The death certificate is not issued until 389 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: the final autopsy is done. I mean, somebody may look 390 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: like they had they fell and died, then the autopsy 391 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: reveals they were poisoned. So the ultimate death certificate does 392 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: not say falling downstairs. The ultimate death certificate states what 393 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: the autopsy says. It's my understanding, Bobby Chico, is that 394 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: you're understanding as well? Yeah, yes, But Nancy, in this case, 395 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: it gets even worse because Barbara, the widow of Kasey, 396 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: are very quickly arranged to have both those bodies transported 397 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: off the island of India to a close by island 398 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: and have been cremated. Now, she's a medical professional. If 399 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: she thought her husband was poisoned, she knows the importance 400 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: of toxicology and preserving tissue stands. Actually, why on earth 401 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: which you have that body moved off island to the 402 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: nearest cremation facility on another island, and I've been cremated. 403 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Private Eye T. J. Ward. 404 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: This is a wtvl. Ward says, there are clues that 405 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: show differently they have the bodies cremated on the island. 406 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,959 Speaker 1: There's another clue. We have learned that there's the insurance company, 407 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: the health the life insurance on casey Barbara, prior to 408 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: them moving to the island, tried to increase the life 409 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: insurance up one and a half million dollars one and 410 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: a half million dollars life insurance. Deboney on your brother. Yes, 411 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: that is correct, one and a half million dollars. Go ahead, deboney, 412 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: this is debon. I may I added something to jump in, Okay, 413 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I mean. And the other 414 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: factor here is that if we had all of the information, 415 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: like Chris touched on. We're not touched on. He puts 416 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: laid out there. But if we had more information from 417 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: the other parties that were at this you know, event 418 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: and participating and whatever, then we would actually probably be 419 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: able to ascertain more information. Not to mention that you know, 420 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: you can also get the evolution and science and forensics. 421 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: You can even from you know, cremated ashes, you can 422 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: get information. What information can you get from cremated ashes? 423 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: I don't know there's specific agents yet, but I am 424 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: it's advaned, just as mister Yakonians stated, to the point 425 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: where almost what you can imagine can't be done can't 426 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: be done. I wouldn't have imagine it five years ago 427 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: or ten years ago. But you know the fact that 428 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: that the bodies was so quickly disposed of it was remarkable. Again, 429 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: even not just because as I unders should ready that 430 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: the readings on the papers that is anting automatically declare 431 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: the suspicious step anyway in GLOA, I don't understand as 432 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: a non investigative, but a position, why would you let 433 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: information go like me tossing out your MRI, all your 434 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: lab and your physically madam? What's your family said? How 435 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: can you make the God announced this about all your 436 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: information time stories with Nancy Grace to Debney, make person 437 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: you doll or actually let me throw this to Christopher 438 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: Montgomery who's working with the family. Is it's true that 439 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: the widow Casey's widow will not give Debney access to 440 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: records that's one hundred percent true. You don't. Also to 441 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: just back up just a moment, Nancy here, first of all, 442 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: was leaving the island with the bodies. The widow had 443 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: the opportunity to bring the bodies back to the States, 444 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: back to Oregon for the families for proper goodbyes, proper burials, 445 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: even desposition there for free, Yet she chose to pay 446 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: to transport the bodies to another island for quick disposal. 447 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: When she returned to Oregon, she said that they needed 448 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: to keep it quiet and not discuss it for fear 449 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: of something happening to these four survivors. Yet while she 450 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: was on the island, she was part of a funeral 451 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: procession for Casey and Caleb that one hundred and twenty 452 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: members of the public attended. While she said she was 453 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: in fear. Was the family invited to the memorial? I 454 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: guess the procession you described, No, as the family and 455 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: the consultant. We did not even learn that this happened 456 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: until last year. We have only known about that event 457 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: for less than twelve months at this point in time. 458 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: So let me understand. They die apparent alcohol poisoning, even 459 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: though one is bludgeon is s triangled, they're immediately taken 460 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: off the island and cremated. They actually have a funeral 461 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: procession on the island, and the victim's family had no 462 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: idea about the funeral procession. Nope, we did not know 463 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: until last year. And they said when they came to 464 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: Oregon and met with Debony, they said that this needed 465 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: to be kept quiet because the four of them were 466 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: in fear for their own lives. Yet within a couple 467 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: of miles, less than five miles of the actual murder location, 468 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 1: they had this funeral where the public of over one 469 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty people came and went, and yet they're 470 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: in fear of their lives, no security without that funeral. 471 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: To take a listen to Mandaro's The inconsistencies in the 472 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: story and the more sinister possibility the two men were 473 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: murdered are what drew private investigator T. J. Ward to 474 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: the case is totally wrong. What dare saying happened and 475 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: once transpired. He knows all too well how difficult it 476 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: is to investigate a tragedy abroad. And these kids are 477 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: young adults, think that everything's a saying for beer, that 478 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: they can do the same things here that they can 479 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: do over there, which is totally wrong, and theres no 480 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: there has not been an inquest. Is that correct? The widow, 481 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: she's delayed the inquest, Nancy, this is Chris mcgomer. She 482 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: has delayed it by refusing to cooperate with the inquest 483 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: and the widow. You go ahead, dear. The widow and 484 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: the three others have been offered the opportunity a to 485 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: return to the island to testify in person. They refused. 486 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: They then claimed COVID the island has offered them that 487 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: the ability to testify being zoom from anywhere on Earth 488 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: that they're choosing just call in. They say it's not 489 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: safe for them even to do that from an undisclosed 490 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: bunker fifty feet underground wherever they want to go. They're 491 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: not it's not safe for them to testify, so they refused. 492 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: Mobby Chicon, please explain to everybody what's an inquest. Well, 493 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's usually done by a car. It's a 494 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: it's a medical investigation. You try to you know, sometimes 495 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: these uh these British countries or protectorates call their investigation inquest. 496 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: It's it's just simply a very primimary investigation looking into 497 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: what happened and how how things happen, So you get 498 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: the first The first part of it is you talk 499 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: to everybody that was there. You get official, sworn statements 500 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: about what they did and what they saw at the time. 501 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: These people's debt and that is what they are refusing 502 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: to attend. Guys, take a listen to our cust fifteen sixteen. 503 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: This is Amanda rose Ward says, he, like Debony, has 504 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: been struggling to put the pieces together and accessing information 505 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: has been difficult. It is here in the United Space. 506 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: The next step, he says, is for the court to 507 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: hold an inquests, you know, for other witnesses in this case. 508 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: They've been requested to return to the island, which I 509 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: felt very serious. What's going to happen without an inquest 510 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: and the testimonies of those involved. Wards says the road 511 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 1: ahead is unclear, but one thing is certain. The family 512 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: will continue to fight to keep the case alive and 513 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: get justice for Casey. They know that we are onto 514 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: the truth, that we're uncovering what's happening. The family tells 515 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: us they've also hired an attorney on the island. The 516 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: attorney told us it's uncommon to have an inquest if 517 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: there is evidence of an unnatural death or possible homicide. 518 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: For that reason, he says he's fighting to get a 519 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: criminal investigation under way. Devanie, this is Casey's sister. You 520 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: have described this entire scenario an I quote as a big, 521 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: huge spider web of lies and deception. Correct? Why? Because 522 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: the story keeps changing and the more things that we 523 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: uncover it put holes in holding their story. Nancy, it's 524 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: christmagovery and every time we turn around, when we just 525 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: last year we find out this funeral was hosted, we 526 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: find out all these things years later, months and years later, 527 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: we keep learning new things where this family had a 528 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: chance to get all the information on day one, and 529 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: yet nothing was provided to them. The phone calls made 530 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: by Barbara from the island at the start of this 531 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: are suspicious. What tione calls are you farring? In the 532 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: first days after Casey's death. We have reports right now 533 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: that she made three phone calls from jail. She made 534 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: a phone call to Life Insurance, she made a phone 535 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: call to a corporate attorney, and she made a phone 536 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: call to the contingent beneficiary of the life insurance policy, 537 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: all three of which we understand went to the island. 538 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: The family was the only way to get the truth 539 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: here is for there to be a full hearing and 540 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: inquest in Anguilla. And the only way we're going to 541 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: have that is if these parties agree to it. That 542 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: doesn't even make sense. Why do they have to agree 543 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: to an inquest. I don't understand that, christpher Montgomery. That's 544 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: been our question as well. Barbara has said on repeated 545 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: occasions she's not aware of an inquest. Yet. We can 546 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: show where she has been directly officially told that she 547 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: needs to appear, she'll publicly say that she hasn't. We 548 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: can show the evidence where she has. Well, I can 549 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: tell you this much, something is very, very wrong. We 550 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: wait as justice and Fols. Nancy Grace comes to resigning off. 551 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:32,879 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend.