1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young father takes a 2 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: second job to support his family, literally working day and night, 3 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: the night job as a pizza delivery person. There, he 4 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: became the unwinning victim of a murder plot. Delivering pizzas 5 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: was a second job for Josh. His primary job was 6 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: working as a meat cutter for Payless Supermarkets. He worked 7 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: at this store for over a decade because coworkers were 8 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: devastated for the husband and father of an infant son. 9 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: How could that happen? How? You know, all he ever 10 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: wanted to do was take care of his family. That's 11 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: the only reason he had that second job. Well, so 12 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: he could provide and his wife could take care of 13 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: the baby and his stepson, and that's all he cared about. 14 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: Josh was killed less than a mile from the stores 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: he worked at, in his own neighborhood and his manager's neighborhood. 16 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: There is no more well, not in my neighborhood. Nobody 17 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: can say that anymore. It's sad, but it's true. So 18 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: we just we take it and we learned from it 19 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: and see what we need to do to improve so 20 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: that situation doesn't happen again. You are hearing our friend 21 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: Rich Night at WTHR thirteen News people in the neighborhood, 22 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: stating they'll take from it and learn what they can. 23 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: But what about his wife? What about his children? His 24 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: very young children to be raised without a father, without 25 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: a data, without those two incomes, How were they going 26 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: to be supported? All because of one screwed up murder 27 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: plot hatched to get money from a pizza delivery guy 28 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: and now a whole family is left devastated. What are 29 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: they supposed to take from that and move on again? 30 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 31 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: in series XM one eleven. Let me introduce to you 32 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: an all star panel to help us understand what has 33 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: happened with me. Ashley Wilcot, judge and trial lawyer anchor 34 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: at Court TV. You can find her at Ashley Wilcott 35 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us from LA renowned 36 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: psycho analysts. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall 37 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: dot com. Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Coldcase Research Institute, 38 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: now Emmy winner, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, jacksonvill State University, 39 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Now the 40 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: star of poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. But 41 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: first to my longtime friend and colleague, Crime online dot Com, 42 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: investigate every reporter, Alexis Terres Chuck Alexis, take a listen 43 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: to wt h R thirteen. Flafia police were called to 44 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: this address just after eleven pm last night. When they arrived, 45 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: they found two men shot and killed in the street. 46 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: One of them was a Domino's pizza delivery driver. The 47 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: Domino's store less than a mile away confirms thirty seven 48 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: year old Josh Ungersma was making deliveries last night. Josh 49 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: was a delivery driver for us for over a year. 50 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: He was a great guy and a great employee who 51 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: was working a second job to provide for his family. 52 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: Nineteen year old Alberto van Meter was apparently shot and 53 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: killed first at the scene. Neighbor Patrick Gibson heard the 54 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: shots from inside his house next door. If I came 55 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: out after I heard the first four shots, the kid 56 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: was already dead, so I don't know who shot the 57 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: first four shots or whatever. Then, Gibson says he witnessed 58 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: a teenage girls shoot the driver. I would never thought 59 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: once in my life I would see something like this. Happening, 60 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: like right there in my height somebody getting shot and killed, 61 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: or like somebody did like right there in my face 62 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: in that's the other reporter, Alexeis Terrest, checked with me. 63 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: Hold On, Alexis, I just had a thought to doctor 64 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. You know, I just heard for the first 65 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: time a fact that the pizza delivery addressed the shooting. 66 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: The murder was just one mile from the pizza parlor itself, 67 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, when you think a pizza delivery guy in danger, 68 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: you think they're speeding to a delivery. Don't think of 69 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: this just a regular night working a second job to 70 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: support his wife and children. Worked all days the meat 71 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: cutter pizza delivery at night, one mile away. He never 72 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: came home. Nancy. You would also think there's a sense 73 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 1: of familiarity in that neighborhood, so he must have known 74 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: something about the neighborhood and which he was working. But 75 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: back to your point about the calm, the peacefulness of 76 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: familiarity we feel in our own surroundings. Think about the 77 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: statistic that most children who are murdered or kidnapped are 78 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: found within three quarters miles of the family home. Think 79 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: about the number of domestic homicide victims who are secreted 80 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: inside the home in which they lived. We think of 81 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: home as a safe place, but perpetrators also lurk close 82 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: to our homes and to their own homes, and they 83 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: seek familiar places as well. So crimes are not always 84 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: out on the freeway or at a rest stop late 85 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: at night. Often there within your own familiar surroundings. Which 86 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: is what happened here, Till Chuck Crime online dot Com 87 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. The familiarity that doctor Benthany Marshall is describing 88 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 1: really strikes me. Here's the guy out working a second job, 89 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: everything going spe stendered operating procedure. All of a sudden bam, 90 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: He's never coming home to his family again. Who is 91 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: this teen girl? What happened? So? Her name is Jelene Billets, 92 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: She's seventeen years old. She and her boyfriend, Alberto ben Meeter, 93 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: who was nineteen years old, came up with a plan 94 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: to rob a Domino's delivery guy. They went to a 95 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: house not even where I right there, right there, corrent 96 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Cheryl McCollum, Director Colecase Research Institute, 97 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: Recent Emmy winner, Cheryl, don't the pizza delivery people have 98 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: a sign. I never carry over what fifty dollars something 99 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: like that, absolutely, And Nancy, COVID most people don't even 100 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: take cash anymore. Everything is your debit card or a 101 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: credit card. So here's a guy with practically no cash. 102 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: Even before COVID, they would very often, if not always, 103 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: have a sign in the window. Joe Scott, I seem 104 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: to see that all the time. We don't carry over 105 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: what fifty dollars cash? It's very clear why would you 106 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: target a pizza guy with nothing? They're vulnerable, Nancy. I've 107 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: worked cases involving pizza drivers and taxicab drivers over the 108 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: course of my career, and they all turned out like this. 109 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: They were like they were executions essentially, because you've got 110 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: the element of surprise. This guy's rolling up to what 111 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: the authorities have deemed as an abandoned house, and they 112 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: know what they're dragging this guy into, and they're going 113 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: to ambush him. Hey, his hands are full, he's got 114 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: you know you've ever had a pizza delivered your house. 115 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: He's got a pizza in his hand. He's got a 116 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: couple of drinks they've ordered that that's actually found on 117 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: the ground there, and this guy's going into a dangerous situation, 118 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: and it's the most vulnerable position you can be in 119 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: as a citizen. You're just going about your daily job. 120 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: You're not expecting to be murdered. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 121 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: The names of the two people found dead in this 122 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: Lafayette street are thirty seven year old Joshua ungersma In 123 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: nineteen year old Alberto van Meter. Both of them are 124 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: from Lafayette. Now. It happened near the street's heart heart 125 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: in sixteenth Street, excuse me, last night in Lafayette. Lafayette 126 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: Police Lieutenant Matt Guard says the call came in at 127 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: about eleven fourteen last night. When officers got here, they 128 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: found the two men dead from gunshot wounds. LPED is 129 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: still investigating the homicides, but a teenage girl has been 130 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: arrested in connection to what happened here now. The deputy 131 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: corner also mentioned that Unger's Mott was a pizza delivery 132 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: driver in Lafayette. Lieutenant Guard could not say if that 133 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: had anything to do with the investigation. Yeah, it had 134 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: plenty to do with the investigation. These predators targeted the 135 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: pizza delivery guy. They didn't care that he's working to 136 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: Jos to support his family and his children. They didn't 137 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: care about that. This call came in around eleven fifteen 138 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: at night. They used the cover of darkness lured him 139 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: there for what little money a pizza delivery guy carries. 140 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: You were just listening to our friend, Samantha Tike at 141 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: WLFI eighteen News. Back to you, Joe Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, 142 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: jacksonvill State. You mentioned that you had worked a lot 143 00:09:53,320 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: of cases where pizza delivery guys and similarly possess positioned 144 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: victims are targeted and lured. Did you notice they waited 145 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: until it was dark to get the pizza. I mean 146 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: this was very well thought out, Joe Scott, Yeah, it was. 147 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: And think about this as well. There are two individuals 148 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: that are perpetrating this, this attempted robbery, if you will. 149 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: And so you have one person that's drawn the attention 150 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: of the driver, all right, while the other person is 151 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: essentially probably has a weapon being held on him. He 152 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: doesn't know where to go at this point. I'm sure 153 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: he's panicked. At this point, he is, like I said, Nancy, 154 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: he is vulnerable. This is what is referred to as 155 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: a symmetry in victimology. That means one person has the 156 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: upper hand at all times. And things went really sideways 157 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: very quickly. You know, Cheryl will call him. You're the 158 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute and forensics expert 159 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: Joe Scott's laying a lot of fancy words on you. 160 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: Did you hear that symmetry in victimology? Okay? What is 161 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: he saying? All right? I would never say that too. 162 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: With jury, there's a lot of symmetry and victimology. What 163 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: just breaking down a column? He is so brilliant the issue. 164 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: You sure see that a side of your mouth. Go ahead. 165 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: You know he's frail. I love his voice, but basically 166 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: this person, I'm sure you'd be happy to report that 167 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: to your husband. But just keep going right now, enough 168 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: about Jay Scott Morgan and so called silver Fox. Go ahead. 169 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: But this is a soft target. So we see it 170 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: with delivery people, whether it's flowers or pizza. We see 171 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: it with real estate agents. They can be lured somewhere. 172 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: So this house is abandoned, so there's no phone, there's 173 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: no proper lighting, there's not going to be easy help 174 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: for the victim. So again they're laying in weight. But again, 175 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: my former prosecutor, Nancy Grace, I know what you would 176 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: do with this level of premeditation is beyond evil. So 177 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: you're talking about they stalk out this address, that's bogus. 178 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: They lay in wait, they make this phone call, they 179 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: order this pizza. And here's what's really discussing. They didn't 180 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: care who it was. It was just whoever in rotation 181 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: got this assignment. Whoever showed up was six and have 182 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: a gun shoved in their face. What they weren't counting 183 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: on is the victim having his own weapon. Yeah, they weren't. 184 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: And he carried that for reasons because I guess he 185 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: had felt threatened in the past. But he just kept working. 186 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: I want to go to ask you Wilcot Judge and 187 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: Trial Law, your anchor Court TV, ask you Wilcot dot com. 188 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: You know what my twins keep saying, Mom, I'm going 189 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: to get a job. I'm like, you're not going to 190 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: get a job. You're twelve. That's against the law. If 191 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: you want a job, here, here's a toothbrush and a 192 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: can of ajax. Getting there and clean the ground between 193 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: the tiles and in your bathroom tub. That worn't for 194 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: about a month, they keep saying this, get a job, 195 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: what delivering pizza? After I read a story like this. 196 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: You heard Joe Scott Morgan, you heard Cheryl McCollum. A 197 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: soft target. I'll never forget covering the real estate victim. 198 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: She went to a home, a guy was waiting on 199 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: her and murdered her. Just beautiful lady trying to She 200 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: had just called home and told her family, Hey, I 201 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: put something in the oven for you. Just turn it on. 202 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: I'll be there later, but your dinner's ready. I've got 203 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: one more showing I've got to go to. He killed her, 204 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: raped her and killed her. I mean, soft target. It 205 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: is just so wrong. It's not like some drugs shootout. 206 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: It's not like a wife plotting to murder her husband. 207 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: The pizza delivery guy, Ashley, Yeah, it's so random, Nancy. 208 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: It's really sad. We live in a world where you 209 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: always have to be aware, You always have to be 210 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: cautious because there are these on them crimes and criminals 211 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: will be criminals. Then they don't care who they hurt. 212 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: If they're going to try to rob someone like Jesscott said, 213 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: they had a gun, they didn't care what they did 214 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: with it, and it's really a world when we always 215 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: have to watch our back. But that doesn't excuse, condonor 216 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: defend the fact that these criminals took the life of 217 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: someone who was working hard to support his family. He never, ever, 218 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: ever should have been a target, right, there's no reason, 219 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: there's no excuse, there's no justification. And thankfully he had 220 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: a gun on him. I'm going to say that right 221 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: to carry, because if he didn't have a gun on him, 222 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: the results may have been the same, but it could 223 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: have been even worse. It just there's no good outcome, 224 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: but he had to be prepared for something just in case, 225 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: and it happened. Alexis. I just remember the woman's name 226 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: was Beverly Carter, the real estate agent. Just she looked 227 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: like a model, beautiful lady, beautiful family and goes to 228 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: this real estate showing and ends up getting murdered. The 229 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: defense at trial by the killer was that this woman 230 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: had met the killer for the first time and died 231 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: accidentally during a consensual sex act. The dinners in the 232 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: oven just put it on four hundred. I'll be home 233 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: in an hour, Are you kidding me? What a lie? 234 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: And I think we covered that together Alexis when Miss 235 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: Carter was murdered. And here we have another soft target. 236 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: As we hear Chryl McCollum describe it. What can you 237 00:15:53,320 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: tell me about the victim? He is very easy, seven 238 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: years old, he is married, he has a brand new baby, 239 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: not even a year old, baby's six months old. He's 240 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: a stepdad, a loving stepdad to a six year old son. 241 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: And as he's been a butcher for thirteen years, he's 242 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: had a steady solid job. About a year ago he 243 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: decided that, you know you, to do baby on the way. 244 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: They needed more money, so he got a job as 245 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: a Domino's delivery driver to earn more money. Everybody loves 246 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: this guy. I mean he worked so hard, and I 247 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: think you were right about Dominoes. But it's not fifty 248 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: dollars the driver's here, it's twenty dollars. That's nothing to 249 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: rob somebody over twenty dollars, you know, I guess, doctor Bethany, 250 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm just learning a lot more about the victim. You know, 251 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: there are some men. I'm sure you've seen him out 252 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: there on rodeo drive. For everything is about appearance, not substance. 253 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: No offense to you. But here's a guy that marries 254 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: a young lady who is ringing with her a stepson. 255 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: A lot of men wouldn't touch that with a ten footpoll, 256 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: no matter how great the lady is. They just don't 257 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: want the responsibility. But he marries this woman with a stepchild, 258 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: then they have their own baby. Now, this that tells 259 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: me a lot about him right there, holding down this 260 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: kind of job for thirteen years, same position, ten years, 261 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: all day with a night job too. I mean, it 262 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: just reminds me so much of my dad, Doctor Bethany Nancy. 263 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: A couple of things come to mind about that. Who 264 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: wants to be away from their house late at night? 265 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: This was after eleven o'clock at night, when you have 266 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: a newborn at home. That in and of itself is 267 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: a sacrifice, not just the hard work of being a 268 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: piece of delivery man, but the loss of attachment with 269 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: your own child's or own family. Of course, he would 270 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: much rather have been at home than out working, probably 271 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: for minimum wage. The second thing is you mentioned the 272 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,120 Speaker 1: realtor who is killed in the course of her work. 273 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: The guy laid and wait so that he could rape 274 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: and murder her. Where we are assuming that these perpetrators 275 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: were intending to steal money. These were two teenagers. What 276 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: if that was not the m for the crime. I 277 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: don't know criminology, but I do know human nature, and 278 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that they needed to 279 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: use that much worse for twenty dollars. Well, of course 280 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: they didn't. You're trying to apply logic to an illogical situation. 281 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: Of course they didn't need to, but they wanted. This 282 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: guy's twenty five dollars crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a 283 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: guy working two jobs to support his stepson and his 284 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: kneeborn baby and wife. I just hate it because it 285 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: reminds me and my dad work in the night shift. 286 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, the rest of us would be at 287 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: home and we'll be long to sleep before my dad 288 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: would make it back home. And then, you know what, 289 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: even getting home at two o'clock in the morning from work, 290 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: when I would wake up for school, my dad would 291 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: be up in there helping us make breakfast to get 292 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: ready for school. It just makes me sick. Sick about 293 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: this guy. Joshua Ungersman, we're learning a lot about what happened, 294 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: and about the characters involved, and about the victim himself. 295 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Rich and IWTHR thirteen. Two witnesses 296 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: say they saw seventeen year old Jalen Billips shoot a 297 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: Domino's pizza delivery driver just after eleven pm on August thirty. First. 298 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Court records say that Billops ordered pizza with a false 299 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: name to an unoccupied address on sixteenth Street in Lafayette. 300 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: When josh ungers Might arrived with the delivery, Billips and 301 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: her boyfriend allegedly tried to rob him. Investigators believe ungers 302 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: Must shot and killed nineteen year old Alberto van Meter 303 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: with a revol over, then Billips shot and killed Ungersma 304 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter handgun. The team faces multiple felony charges, 305 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: including three counts of murder and armed robbery. The charges 306 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: hold Billips responsible for Ungersma killing her boyfriend. Billips made 307 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: her initial court appearance by video and told the magistrate 308 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: her family plans to hire an attorney. Yeah, she's gonna 309 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: need a lawyer. Joshua Ungersma, however, dead. There is a 310 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: go FUNDI set up for his family and Jackie, if 311 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: you could get that for me, Alexis, I'll circle back 312 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: with you on that, but this is what we know. 313 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: The shooter Jalen Billups seventeen, charged with killing Joshua Ungersma, 314 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: and she may end up being charged with the death 315 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: of her boyfriend, who was shot during the armed robbery. 316 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: Nineteen year old Alberto ven Meter also dead in the 317 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,959 Speaker 1: middle of all this. What do we know about her, 318 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: Alexas Tereshiak, I'm looking at a mug shot right now. 319 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Seventeen Yep, we know she is seventeen years old. She 320 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: has I guess her boyfriend that she was there with. 321 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: But here's what happened during the crime. What the police 322 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: have said is, so she and her boyfriend ambushed Umar 323 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: sm some there are a bunch of shots fired. The 324 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: boyfriend is on the ground dead. That neighbors come out. 325 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: They talk to Umber as much Joshua. He says, please 326 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: call the police, and she actually dialed nine one from 327 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: her phone, the samphone that she called to order the 328 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: pizza from. Is what the police have said. So she 329 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: is starting the crime. She's calling up Domino steps him up. 330 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: He comes. Then after the boy her boyfriend's shot, she 331 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: takes the gun and walks up to Joshua and shoots 332 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: him point blank and kills him. You know that's overwhelming 333 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: to me. Could you just go through that very slowly 334 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: one more time? I'm sure so. Jalen is the one 335 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: that actually makes the phone call from her cell phone. 336 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: She calls Domino's Pizza. She orders the pizza. Joshua shows up. 337 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: He is ambushed by this couple. There are shots fired. 338 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: Her boyfriend, I'm saying boyfriend, the boy with her, the teenager, 339 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: the nineteen year old man is shot. He is on 340 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: the ground. Clearly, I believe dead. Everybody. People the neighbors 341 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: are coming out from the house. They see it. Angersma, 342 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: the delivery driver says to the neighbors police, I was 343 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: hoping he gets hope that he didn't feel anything. So 344 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: he lays there knowing he's dying and asked people to 345 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: call police. No, no, no, he hasn't been shot yet. 346 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: He has not been shot yet. He is he's defended himself. 347 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: He's defended himself from the robbery, and he is doing 348 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: the right thing staying away from the scene. So then 349 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: so he's there, he's doing the right thing. The responsible 350 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: to can call the police. She actually nine one one 351 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: from her cell phone. Then she picks up a gun 352 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: and walks over to him and shoots him point blank 353 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: and killed him. Alexis this is so different from what 354 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: has been reported, Doctor Bethany Marshall, did you hear that? 355 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: I heard the entire thing a Nancy. One of the 356 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: things I wondered was Jalen. She's there with a gun. 357 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: She sees her boyfriend shot and killed a seventeen year 358 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: old girl, then goes and shoots Josh the pizza delivery man, 359 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: who is the seventeen year old girl. Like she's a 360 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: homicidal seventeen year old. It's almost like she went to 361 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: that abandoned house with homicide on her mind, not with 362 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: pizza or the pizza dreams or stealing the twenty or 363 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: the fifty dollars or whatever she thought she could find. 364 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: This is a young woman who is primary m O 365 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: was homicide. That she was trigger happy, She was ready 366 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: to do it before the pizza delivery man ever even 367 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: arrived at the house. You know, in my mind that 368 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: changes so much. First of all, it was going to 369 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: be a felony murder anyway, which carries a life sentence 370 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: if she's treated as an adult, because it was during 371 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: the commission of a robbery. That's a felony, and someone 372 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: died josh Unger's mo the dad to too. But now 373 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: Alexa's terrest stripe. From what I understand you're telling me. 374 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: After Anger's ma tells neighbors call police, she comes over 375 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: and shoots him dead. Yes, he actually The neighbors said, 376 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: are you okay? And Joshua said, According to the police, 377 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: josh And says okay, but call the police. He tells 378 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: the neighbor to call the police. The police are saying, 379 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, in according the affidavit, they say she actually 380 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: called nine one one from her cell phone. So she 381 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: used his cell phone to call Dominoes and she called 382 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: nine like one. Then the neighbor says he witnessed this. 383 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: He said, she picks up a gun and walks right 384 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: up to unders and shoots him. Walks right up to 385 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,719 Speaker 1: the delivery arver. So he had been okay. Now police 386 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: are saying, or the prospers say he had several gunshot 387 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: ones I don't. They have not revealed how many times 388 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: he was shot, or if perhaps her boyfriend had fired 389 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: at him. But he said he was okay. So you've 390 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: been shot, you wouldn't say you were okay way any 391 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum Nancy the point of all this that really 392 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: steaks out for me too is the victim. The delivery 393 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: driver had already put his gun back in his pocket, 394 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: so he thought the threat was over, and he was 395 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: certainly not looking at her as anybody that was involved 396 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: with this robbery in the beginning. So again it goes 397 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: for premeditation. Both of these suspects have a gun laying 398 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: in weight on this man. When this happens and she 399 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: sees her boyfriend shot, it's critical to me that she 400 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: didn't run away in a panic. She didn't freak out 401 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: and leave the area to even save herself. She walked, 402 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 1: not ran, walked up to that victim and shot him 403 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: dead point blank and stayed there and police capture her 404 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: own scene. This is not your average seventeen year old. 405 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: To judge and trial lawyer a court TV anchor Ashley Willcot, 406 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: that is absolutely premeditated, because first of all, you have 407 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: the premeditation of them luring him. The victim, Joshua Angersma 408 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: to an abandoned home. It was not for a pizza. 409 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: The boyfriend, Van Meter, comes out with a gun, he 410 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: gets shot dead. Ugersma calls asked people to call police. 411 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: She comes straight out and guns him down. There's no 412 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: way around it. This is first degree. So I absolutely agree, 413 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: and I'm actually really impressed at that charged with two 414 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: counts of murder. Why because the phone connected her to 415 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: the initial call to the pizza delivery, which was premeditated 416 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: to get somebody there. Right, she did that and as 417 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 1: a result of that, her boyfriend was killed in self defense. 418 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: So I think it's genius on behalf of the prosecutors 419 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: to charge him with both crimes. I just have to say, Nancy, 420 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: this reminds me. Do you remember probably five years ago 421 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: the uber driver in Atlanta that was murdered, gunned to 422 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: the back of the head. Again, they never found any 423 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: connection between the person that shot him and killed him 424 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: and the fact he was an uber driver in the 425 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: middle of the night. I know that family. The reason 426 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: he was doing it was to help support the family money. 427 00:27:49,359 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: Exact same type of case crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 428 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how upsetting this case is. You've 429 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: got a decent guy, no connection whatsoever to these two defendants. 430 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: Second job, I pulled up this picture while we were 431 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: talking that I want to show you. If I can 432 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,239 Speaker 1: hold it long enough, look at him. Look at him 433 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: with his baby, brand new baby, second job to support 434 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: his family. You know, take a listen to Rich Night 435 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: WTHR thirteen. Gibson posted video on Facebook from the scene 436 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: after both shootings. The seventeen year old girl was arrested 437 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: for robbery and murder. She could be charged as an adult. 438 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: Unger'sma also worked in the meat department pay Less Grocery 439 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: for over a decade. The store manager says he was 440 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: married with a newborn baby. We want to be able 441 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: to do everything we can for the family, and we 442 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: are going to for right now. We asked that you 443 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: give us some time for the healing process. The Domino 444 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: store is closed today out of respect to the younger's 445 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: my family. Autopsies or scheduled for both men tomorrow. It'll 446 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: be up to the prosecutor whether to file any criminal 447 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: charges against that seventeen year old. I'm just wondering now 448 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: if she will be treated as an adult throughout the 449 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,719 Speaker 1: proceedings as she should. To forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, 450 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: Professor Friens at Shacksonville State University, j Scott, how can 451 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: we use forensics to prove the scenario that alexis reported 452 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: how it went down. Well, you know, let's go back 453 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: to what Max said just a few moments ago, when 454 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: this young man, this pizza driver, had actually taken his 455 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: weapon and placed it into his pocket. From what I'm understanding, 456 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: it was probably a revolver, a thirty eight caliber revolver, 457 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: which is kind of compact. There were four rounds that 458 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: had been fired, so you have those casings that are 459 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: contained at their end, those rounds, those bullets are going 460 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: to look different than what this seventeen year old i'll 461 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: call her an executioner, allegedly was caring. She was carrying 462 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: a nine millimeter and those two rounds are going to 463 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: look completely different, all right, And then we have to 464 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: think about range of fire. You know, with her, one 465 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: of the things that keeps coming up is this is 466 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: an execution style shooting. Shot him at point blank range. 467 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: When people say things like point blank, they throw it around. 468 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: Point blank is a real thing. That means that you're 469 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: within very close distance of this individual. I'm going to 470 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: be very curious to find out what the range of 471 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: fire is. Did she walk up to this guy and 472 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: just shoot him in the side of the head, Did 473 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: she shoot him in the chest and how many times 474 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: did she fire? And all of that's gonna be revealed 475 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: after the autopsy. Well, we do understand from the autopsy 476 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: from the coroner that the victim, the dad of two, 477 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: Joshua Angersma, was shot multiple times. He leaves behind wife Jenny, 478 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: stepson Logan, and his six month old baby boy. Sebastian 479 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: head warked as a butcher at Payless supermarket for thirteen years, 480 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: then joined Dominoes two years ago to make extra cash 481 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,479 Speaker 1: to support his young family. I want to focus for 482 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: a moment on bills abub Jaillen Billups seventeen years old. 483 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: Could you give me any reason, ashe Wilcott, she should 484 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: not be treated as an adult. In many jurisdictions, it's 485 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: called the seven deadlies. If a juvenile all commits one 486 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: of the seven deadly sins, they will be bound over 487 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: from juvenile court to adult court. Those seven deadlies being, 488 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: if I think I can remember them all off the 489 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: top of my head, murder, rape, child molestation, sodomy, kidnap, arson, 490 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: and armed robbery. There you go. This definitely is one 491 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: of the seven deadlies. Give me one good reason a 492 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: trial judge to kick this back to juvenile Ashley I 493 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: don't think that a trial judge would, But I will 494 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: tell you the reason why it's possible under the law. Yes, 495 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: you're correct, seven deadly get charged as an adult. The 496 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: reason that a judge will kick it to juvenile court 497 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: is because remember, the purpose of the juvenile court system 498 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: is to rehabilitate juveniles. The purpose of the adult system 499 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: is to punish, and so they do it to try 500 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: to provide that. I disagree. If the only purpose of 501 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: adult court is to punish, why do we have halfway houses, 502 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: why do we have probation, Why do I just send 503 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: everybody to jail. Adults get rehabilitated too, But the purpose 504 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: of the system originally was not to rehabilitate, I would argue, 505 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: it was to punish. Now there is rehabilitation, don't misunderstand me, 506 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: but there is no there is for juvenile court for juveniles. 507 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: There is no intent, There is no punishment intended, but 508 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: rather rehabilitation. So when there's a hanous crime like a 509 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: murder like this, they are in my opinion, going to 510 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: be okay trying them as an adult because of the 511 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: hanousness of the crime. It doesn't mean they can't be rehabilitated. 512 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: When they're an adult prison, but it does mean that 513 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: that is not the focus the intent when the juvenile 514 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: court system was set up. This is what else I know. 515 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: I've been trying to speak to people there in the jurisdiction. 516 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: I understand that the boyfriend van Meter was found nearby 517 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: with a Domino's box, two drinks, and cash lying on 518 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: the ground beside him. We also know that the victim's 519 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: weapon was the thirty eight Smith and Wesson, and it 520 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: was in his pocket, as has already been reported by 521 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck. So what does I tell you, Cheryl McCallum, 522 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, boyfriend has found 523 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: with two drinks, a pizza and money beside him, Well, 524 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: it tells me he already started the arm robbery. He 525 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: had a nine millimeter Nancy, I bet you that nine 526 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: millimeter also comes back stolen, perhaps an in Gronado or 527 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: a burglary that he all say be tied to the 528 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: seventeen year old female. She most likely has a juvenile record, 529 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: she's had some issues with her school. I bet you. 530 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: I bet there's other victims that'll come forward about behavior 531 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: that she's displayed. And I bet when it comes to trial. 532 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: She has zero character. Witnesses, This ain't her for Rodeo. 533 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: Look at her mug shot. She ain't scared, she ain't crying. 534 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: She's looking at that camera like whatever. You know what, 535 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: you're right and you just got Morgan. It has definitely 536 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: been confirmed that was shot multiple times. This guy lies 537 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: there and dies outside at an abandoned house. His family 538 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: left without him at the hands of this she devil 539 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: at age seventeen. She's evil already at age seventeen. Yeah, hey, 540 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: you know what, Nancy. This is the thing about it. 541 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: Let me tell you how far this this evil extends. 542 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: The neighbors were already aware that this had happened. Remember 543 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: what we heard. He had engaged in conversation with these people. 544 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: So not only did they gun this young father down 545 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: out in the middle of the street, she did, but 546 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: she did it in front of witnesses. That's how old 547 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: and callous this is. This is something that is going 548 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: to weigh in this neighborhood for years and years and years. 549 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: I think back to a lot of the crime prone 550 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: areas I used to work cases in Nancy, and I 551 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: would go back to those streets and I would look 552 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: and I would say, you know what, I've worked a 553 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: homicide here three years ago, four years ago. The old 554 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: guys that were there before me. Yeah, you got to 555 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: avoid that place. I've had mold, and so this is 556 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: kind of like this generational thing that goes on that 557 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: area is going to be cursed and haunted because well, 558 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: you know what, You're right it will be. But I'm not. 559 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: So I'm not as worried about the area as I 560 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 1: am about this baby, Sebastian, the wife, the stepson. Their 561 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: lives are forever changed. If you want to donate to 562 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: the USA go fund me, I'm looking at it right now. 563 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: You look it up through I put in go fund me. UNGERSMA, 564 00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: You and G E. R. SMA. We wait as justice unfolds. 565 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crumbs story signing off, goodbye friend,