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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. My name is Cat,

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Speaker 1: I'm the host, and today we have a special edition

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Speaker 1: Couch Talks because we are talking about what we have

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Speaker 1: been talking about for about a month now, and that

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Speaker 1: is attachment theory and the insecure attachment styles. Before we

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Speaker 1: get into the Q and a, um, the questions that

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Speaker 1: you guys have sent in, I wanted to give a

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Speaker 1: quick disclaimer that this is not therapy in itself. I

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Speaker 1: am a therapist and licensed in Tennessee, but I cannot

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Speaker 1: and will not give therapy do therapy over a podcast.

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Speaker 1: So giving you some information and hopefully what it does

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Speaker 1: is it helps you lean deeper into your stuff and

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Speaker 1: and what you want to learn more about when it

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Speaker 1: comes to you in your life and how you engage

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Speaker 1: in your relationships. So we had a lot of questions,

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Speaker 1: you guys had a lot of really good questions. UM,

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Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do is, because these episodes are not

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Speaker 1: supposed to be four hours long, you guys know that

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Speaker 1: I could talk for four hours straight. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I could keep your attention, but I could do it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know that Houston would want to edit

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Speaker 1: a four hour long podcast, but that's irrelevant, be cau,

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna do it. What I'm gonna do is

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Speaker 1: i'm gonna break this up. So we're gonna answer a

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Speaker 1: couple of questions today and then in a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks I'll do another couch Talks answering some of the

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Speaker 1: other questions, and I've combined some of them because some

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Speaker 1: of them are pretty similar. So just because I don't

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Speaker 1: read your specific email, it doesn't mean that I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting at something that you may have asked or wondered.

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Speaker 1: So if you're also like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: We did a series on attachment theory and then the

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Speaker 1: insecure attachment styles the past couple of weeks, so if

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Speaker 1: you go back, the first episode was starting with the basics,

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Speaker 1: and then I did an episode on the avoidant attachment

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Speaker 1: style and adults, and then the anxious attachment style and bolts.

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Speaker 1: So I recommend you go listen to those before you

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Speaker 1: listen to this podcast unless you were sent this episode

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Speaker 1: for a specific reason. Also, always very thankful for your questions.

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Speaker 1: If you guys have more, no, you can send them

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. And also,

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Speaker 1: just because I don't respond to your email does not

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Speaker 1: mean I didn't read it. Also doesn't mean I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it on the show. So just

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Speaker 1: always keep your ears and eyes peeled for these episodes.

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Speaker 1: Now let's go into it. I'm gonna pick three questions today.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many I'll pick next time, but

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go with three. And when I say three,

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Speaker 1: I really mean like ten because I jumbled some together.

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Speaker 1: Here is the first one. Can someone with an anxious

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Speaker 1: and avoidant attachment style? Date each other? Now? I got

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Speaker 1: this question and about actually like seven different versions, So

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Speaker 1: I'm simplifying some of what you guys said to get

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Speaker 1: to the point of what you were asking. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of um talking around this issue issue question, so

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Speaker 1: we're simplifying it. So there's a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: are wanting to know, can someone with an anxious attachment

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Speaker 1: style date somebody with a more avoidant attachment style? And

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Speaker 1: to put it simply, yes, anybody can date anyone. And

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Speaker 1: I talked about I think it was in the Anxious

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Speaker 1: episode that a lot of times these people are attracted

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Speaker 1: to each other because they mirror each other's belief systems. However,

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Speaker 1: I used to say it wouldn't be a good idea,

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Speaker 1: But as I have become more mature in the craft

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Speaker 1: of therapy, I've realized that I can't really answer this question.

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Speaker 1: Is it unlikely that these two partners to day together? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is it highly likely that these two people will have

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Speaker 1: a somewhat toxic relationship yes. Now this depends on the

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Speaker 1: severity of the insecurity. Of course, I see the insecure

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Speaker 1: attachment steals in adults on more of a spectrum than

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Speaker 1: a fixed point. But what you would have to identify

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Speaker 1: as what level of health am I looking for in

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Speaker 1: my relate sationship? A question I would ask is what

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Speaker 1: what I have to sacrifice in my relationship to stay

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Speaker 1: in it? And would that be worth it? And different

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Speaker 1: answers are Okay, I can't tell you what you should want.

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Speaker 1: You have to be honest about that, and I think

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Speaker 1: we need to be realistic with it all. We have

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Speaker 1: to be honest about how much wishful thinking we're engaging in.

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Speaker 1: Am I hoping that I can change them, or that

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Speaker 1: they will change or something along those lines. Am I

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Speaker 1: staying in this relationship because I'm afraid of being alone

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Speaker 1: or that no one else will love me? Or do

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Speaker 1: I believe that my needs really can't be met? Do

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Speaker 1: I believe I'm too needy? Do I believe I'm undeserving

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Speaker 1: of what I really long for? And am I settling

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Speaker 1: in this? You have to be really honest about those questions.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, when it comes down to it, you

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Speaker 1: could say, like, yeah, I'm willing to be in this

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Speaker 1: relationship even though I'm not fully satisfied because it's better

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Speaker 1: than nothing. You can say that, and my personal desires

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Speaker 1: or my personal belief of what I think is best

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Speaker 1: in relationships doesn't really have a lot of um weight

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Speaker 1: or importance in that from a completely objective standpoint, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these people can date each other. Anybody can date anybody.

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Speaker 1: What you need to ask yourself is what am I

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Speaker 1: looking for? And am I able to have that in

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Speaker 1: this relationship? And I think we also need to be

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Speaker 1: very realistic in the sense that am I dating this

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Speaker 1: person hoping that they are going to change? Or if

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Speaker 1: nothing ever changed, would I be okay with how this

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Speaker 1: person is presenting now and how I present in this relationship?

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Speaker 1: So maybe not what you guys wanted because I bet

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Speaker 1: you wanted a black and white answer, but you know

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Speaker 1: it's hard to hard to do on here because there

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Speaker 1: are so many variables. Okay, second question, how do you

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Speaker 1: balance taking responsibility for your own insecure in this case,

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Speaker 1: anxious attachment without blaming yourself for your behavior slash coping

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Speaker 1: skills that may have made the avoidant attached partner deactivate

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Speaker 1: and abandon you. Okay, So here's the thing here, And

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Speaker 1: I got a couple of questions that were around this,

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Speaker 1: and then I just picked one to read. So again,

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Speaker 1: keep your ears open. If that wasn't your specific question,

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Speaker 1: we might be talking about what you were wondering. Here's

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Speaker 1: the thing, your behavior as an anxiously attached person probably

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Speaker 1: did push this avoidant person away. However, working on your

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Speaker 1: anxious behavior doesn't change his avoidance behavior. They are still

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Speaker 1: going to be avoidant even if you didn't act anxious. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it feels more like you having these anxious coping

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Speaker 1: skills sped up the inevitable and you can pretend to

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Speaker 1: not have needs. You can pretend like you don't have

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Speaker 1: this anxious attachment style. And that's what a lot of

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Speaker 1: the dating advice tells you to do. Right, but then

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Speaker 1: you would just be shutting yourself down. You're not changing

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Speaker 1: his attachment with that either, You're just probably making it

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Speaker 1: easier for him to remain avoidant. What I would encourage

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Speaker 1: someone to do here is acknowledge that, when it comes

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Speaker 1: down to it, you're not being rejected or abandoned. Someone

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Speaker 1: is running away from their own fear of rejection and abandonment.

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Speaker 1: In this case, when it comes to how this person

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Speaker 1: put it, the avoidant partner abandoned me, they're running away

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Speaker 1: from their own fear. When we were talking about too

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Speaker 1: insecurely attached people, it really isn't about the other person.

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Speaker 1: It's about both of them. It's about them. It's about

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Speaker 1: both of those people's fear of the same thing and

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Speaker 1: how they go about avoiding that. So what I would

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Speaker 1: do is work on yourself soothing. I would encourage anybody

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Speaker 1: to work on their self soothing behaviors who somebody who

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Speaker 1: is more anxious leaning practice some self regulation within the

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Speaker 1: context of relationships. So, yes, it's important for us to

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Speaker 1: be able to go and soothe with our partners, but

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Speaker 1: it's also important for us to be able to soothe

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Speaker 1: without them as well. Um to have the ability to

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Speaker 1: do both, not one or the other, and then work

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Speaker 1: on those negative beliefs you have about your self, especially

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Speaker 1: the ones that the avoidant partners behavior may have given

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Speaker 1: you more ammo for. Then your next relationship you can

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Speaker 1: show up more fully in and ask for your needs

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Speaker 1: to be met and possibly get them met, because that's

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Speaker 1: one of the main ways they will be met is

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Speaker 1: if you ask for them to be met. So stay

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Speaker 1: in your lane, own the stuff that isn't working for you,

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Speaker 1: knowing that no matter what I do, no matter how

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Speaker 1: hard I work on my attachment, I cannot change my

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Speaker 1: partner's attachment through working on mine. They have to have

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Speaker 1: buy in as well. And I also don't like the

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Speaker 1: like they abandoned me. I would reframe that as like

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Speaker 1: they left, like they aren't abandoning you. They're choosing to

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Speaker 1: leave based on their own insecurity. So to make that

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Speaker 1: not so much about you, but make your behavior about you. Okay, Now,

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Speaker 1: question number three, how do you remain hopeful for a

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Speaker 1: partner to heal without existing in a place of despair?

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Speaker 1: Still want seemed to be with that person because you've

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Speaker 1: made excuses for their attachment style and their trauma. So

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Speaker 1: I read this question as like how do I remain

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Speaker 1: hopeful and like, how do I hope that my old

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Speaker 1: partner ex partner heals and finds what they need without

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Speaker 1: remaining attached to the idea that we will end up

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Speaker 1: back together Because whatever hurt they may have caused me,

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Speaker 1: I've made excuses for that. I won't see them as

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Speaker 1: not a good fit for me because I see everything

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Speaker 1: through the lens of their trauma, and then I almost

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Speaker 1: look at them as as like a victim and it's

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Speaker 1: not their fault, so then I still want to be

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Speaker 1: with them. That was my long, wounded way of making

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Speaker 1: the question shorter. I just made it longer anyway. So

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Speaker 1: understanding someone's attachment through the lens of their trauma doesn't

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Speaker 1: make their attachment different. It's still is going to be

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Speaker 1: the same thing behaviorally, and it's going to feel the

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Speaker 1: same way to you as the partner of that person.

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Speaker 1: I think this is the difference between being epathetic and

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Speaker 1: being codependent. Yeah, it sucks that a lot of people

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Speaker 1: with insecure attachment have been through some like really shitty

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Speaker 1: situations and it's not necessarily their fault that they got

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Speaker 1: to where they are. But I would be very careful

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Speaker 1: not to put someone in a victim role when they

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Speaker 1: are no longer a victim, right, so they are now

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Speaker 1: a survivor of this experience, and they have some some

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Speaker 1: bruises and some bumps and some wounds they need to

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Speaker 1: work on, but they are no longer victims to those wounds.

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Speaker 1: They have the ability to heal them outside of whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that they have been through if they are

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Speaker 1: no longer going through that. In the next couple of months,

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Speaker 1: I want to do an episode on the Cartman triangle,

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Speaker 1: the drama triangle, and I've alluded to that before this

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Speaker 1: goes deeper into the idea of how we get in

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Speaker 1: these unhealthy relationship dynamics where there's these three roles. There's

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Speaker 1: the persecutor, there's the rescuer, and there's the victim. And

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Speaker 1: in a sense, we're all kind of fighting to be

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Speaker 1: the victim, even though we wouldn't probably want to admit that,

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Speaker 1: but we're all fighting to be this victim because a victim,

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Speaker 1: it's not their fault. They can't help it. And if

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Speaker 1: I can look at an X as a victim rather

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Speaker 1: than a survivor of something, and then an adult who

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Speaker 1: has like agency and power to change their narrative. I

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Speaker 1: can then make excuses for their behavior, and oh man,

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Speaker 1: is that attractive. When I want to make something work.

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Speaker 1: I want to find a narrative that will make this work.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have to be a martyr here. And

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Speaker 1: what happens when we do that is I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: the one that stays with them because everybody's left or

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Speaker 1: something like that. You know, everybody leaves them, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to abandon them to Okay, well, I get

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. What you're doing, and that is not

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Speaker 1: making them see what their behaviors now are causing and

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Speaker 1: how they might actually be hurting you. You become a martyr,

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Speaker 1: and that actually enables them to stay in their insecure

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Speaker 1: attachment because it's working for them. Whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: they're doing is working for them. They can keep their distance,

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Speaker 1: they can keep their safety that they call safety um

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Speaker 1: without any consequences. And so you're going to continue not

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Speaker 1: to get your needs met and they're going to get

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Speaker 1: their needs met. And I fully believe that we don't

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Speaker 1: change unless we have a reason too. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I call boundaries boundaries without consequences suggestions. Right, if there's

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Speaker 1: if I'm like, please don't do this, but it's working

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Speaker 1: for that person, and there's no consequence for them doing it,

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Speaker 1: they're probably gonna keep doing it. Okay. So let's say

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Speaker 1: that like every time I lend a client a book,

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Speaker 1: they bring it back, but it's like all chewed up

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Speaker 1: by their dog, and they're like, I'm so sorry, my

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Speaker 1: dog got ahold of it. And I'm like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: not their fault because like their dog is like it's

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Speaker 1: a puppy, and like, you know, puppies can't help it,

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Speaker 1: and it must be hard to raise a puppy. But

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Speaker 1: I've done this like fifteen times, and I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: please try to like keep the book out of the

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Speaker 1: hands or the mouth of your dog. They're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: i'll try, but like they don't really do anything because

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Speaker 1: there's not a consequence that keep giving them that book back.

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Speaker 1: And then um, one day I'm like, hey, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to loan you my books anymore if you bring

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Speaker 1: this one back chewed up. So if they really want

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Speaker 1: to continue to borrow my books, they might actually put

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Speaker 1: some effort and keeping the book away from the dog.

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Speaker 1: But if I just let them keep doing whatever and

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Speaker 1: it's like effort for them to have to keep the

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Speaker 1: dog away from the book. They're not going to do it.

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Speaker 1: Same thing with human relationships in all forms. So boundaries

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Speaker 1: without consequences, just suggestions, and we don't always take all

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Speaker 1: the suggestions that people offer us, right, So I hope

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Speaker 1: that was helpful. I hope all of these answered questions

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Speaker 1: were helpful in some way. I know that there were

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Speaker 1: so many more. And if you are like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: really wanted you to answer my question, we will be

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Speaker 1: doing another one of these attachment themed couch talks soon

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Speaker 1: next week, however, is need a week, So next week

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Speaker 1: I will be doing content around um eating disorders, exercise, addiction,

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Speaker 1: disordered eating, all of those things I have. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: about the Monday episode. I'm gonna keep it a secret

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Speaker 1: for right now, but I am excited to record that

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Speaker 1: this week with a couple of people, and then the

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Speaker 1: couch Shocks will be centered around that as well, because

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Speaker 1: I think that it is important to continue to spread

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Speaker 1: awareness and information around ound eating disorders and how they

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Speaker 1: can show up pretty like incognito and our culture. So

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Speaker 1: if you do have any specific questions on that topic,

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Speaker 1: UH send them in next week would definitely be your

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Speaker 1: week to do that. And you can do that again

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Speaker 1: Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. If you

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Speaker 1: want to follow us, it's at you Need Therapy Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and you can follow me at at cat

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Speaker 1: dot de FATA D E f A T t A.

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Speaker 1: You can also click the link in the show notes

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Speaker 1: to find those And if you're like, oh man, I

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Speaker 1: only get to hear cat twice a week and I

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Speaker 1: really need some more, I want to remind you guys

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Speaker 1: that I'm also on Amy Brown's podcast Four Things with

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Speaker 1: Amy Brown every single Tuesday with her on her fifth Thing,

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Speaker 1: and we talk about all of the things there. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: we have a goal of something to talk about and

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Speaker 1: we end up going rogue and sometimes we try to

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Speaker 1: stay on track. But we talked about a lot of

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Speaker 1: different stuff, mental health, life, cereal. I mean, we got

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Speaker 1: at it all covered there, so you can check that

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Speaker 1: out as well. So that will do it for us today.

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Speaker 1: I hope you guys have the day you need to

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Speaker 1: have and I will talk to you guys on Monday.