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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent coverage.

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Speaker 3: That is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: All right, guys.

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Speaker 1: I can hardly believe I am saying these words, but

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Speaker 1: joining us now the former host of The Daily Show

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Speaker 1: and the current host of the Problem with John Stewart,

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Speaker 1: the one and only John Stewart.

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Speaker 4: Welcome, Great to have you.

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Speaker 3: Good to see you, sir.

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Speaker 5: Oh hold on, hold on, I'm about to make my entrance.

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Speaker 2: There is wow, a little bit older than I remember,

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Speaker 2: very dramatic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, sounds pretty good.

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Speaker 1: So I really have genuinely been enjoying the show. We've

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Speaker 1: actually talked about it here on Breaking Points a couple

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Speaker 1: of times.

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Speaker 4: But let's just start with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh of course, yeah, Well, what was the sort of

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Speaker 1: creative spark that led you to create this show and

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Speaker 1: decide to come back into the media space.

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Speaker 4: At this time.

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Speaker 5: I think it was that sense of having worked down

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Speaker 5: in Washington. The Daily Show was kind of an exercise

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Speaker 5: in catharsis an exercise in you know, sitting in your

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Speaker 5: underwear yelling at the TV screen, and there was a

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Speaker 5: certain impotent rage to it. But it also for my

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Speaker 5: creative mind ran its course. I didn't. I wasn't quite

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Speaker 5: sure how to evolve it anymore. I wasn't quite sure

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Speaker 5: what else to do with it, and I don't. And

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Speaker 5: it became I didn't want it to become a caricature

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Speaker 5: or become rote and you don't want to stay somewhere

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Speaker 5: just because they're letting you. And you can see now

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Speaker 5: like the other folks that had been on it have

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Speaker 5: worked and evolved it into these different worms that have

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Speaker 5: been really cool to see, you know, Oliver and Trevor

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Speaker 5: and Sam and like they've they've moved it and made

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Speaker 5: it their voice and and that's kind of that's the

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Speaker 5: creative process. But I couldn't. For me, I just I

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Speaker 5: just needed just to step away and kind of engage

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Speaker 5: more in in the real world. And so after having

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Speaker 5: done that and seeing how the halls of power have

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Speaker 5: a relationship with their constituents, but it's not it's not

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Speaker 5: one that is necessarily grounded in their needs or the

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Speaker 5: necessities or their reality. And so it stemmed from the

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Speaker 5: idea of like, why is that gap so difficult to bridge?

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Speaker 5: And it seems fucking simple, Like, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 5: a lot of this stuff seems simple. So it was like,

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Speaker 5: you know, the impetus of the show is just why not?

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Speaker 5: You know, you'd you'd have these constituencies with these very

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Speaker 5: real and urgent issues, you'd have the stakeholders in those

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Speaker 5: issues very articulately stating what their what their problem is,

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Speaker 5: or what their you know, what the process is or

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Speaker 5: the perversion of that process, and then you have people

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Speaker 5: who have an ability to affect change over that disconnected

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Speaker 5: from it. So the idea for the show is sort

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Speaker 5: of simple, which is, set the map on where the

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Speaker 5: kind of corruption or perversion is and whatever issue we're

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Speaker 5: talking about, Let some of the stakeholders express how that

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Speaker 5: corruption or perversion affects what they're trying to accomplish or

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Speaker 5: affects their lives, and then try and talk to somebody

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Speaker 5: who might have a sense of how you could overcome

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Speaker 5: that or in a position where they could have.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting to see you in the new.

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Speaker 5: Promat long winded.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, it's fine. We're on the podcast. You

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Speaker 2: don't have to worry about the commercial breaks or whatever.

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Speaker 2: We got limitless dive.

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Speaker 5: That's what That's what I thought. That's right.

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Speaker 2: What I enjoy is that while you were a source

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Speaker 2: from me, whenever you were on the Daily Show, you

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Speaker 2: would always famously say, like, I'm a comedian, I'm not

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Speaker 2: delivering the news. But here you've really embraced both the

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Speaker 2: comedy aspect, the explainer aspect, and then the news making interviews.

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Speaker 2: So how has that kind of changed your not even calculus,

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Speaker 2: but like the way that you guys come up with

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Speaker 2: the constructs of the show. Because to sit down with

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Speaker 2: the Bob Iger or to sit down with the Jamie Diamond,

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Speaker 2: to sit down with the people that you are and

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Speaker 2: to push them in a way that are the Secretary

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Speaker 2: of Veterans Affairs, both those are not necessarily things that

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Speaker 2: might have happened in the previous era.

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Speaker 3: And you've you've affected change.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think single handedly are responsible for the

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Speaker 2: word burn pits being uttered by the President of the

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Speaker 2: United States in the State of the Union how is that?

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Speaker 3: How have you reflected on that in the current in

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Speaker 3: the context of the current show.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. So part of it is Daily

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Speaker 5: Show made its money on volume. You know, we were

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Speaker 5: there so you know, we had to do four shows

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Speaker 5: a week, so you're you're always there, so you would

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Speaker 5: have those types of interviews, but you would also have

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Speaker 5: you know, the third lead on a New Girl and

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Speaker 5: also somebody who wrote a book about how they built

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Speaker 5: the Pentagon. So it was this wide variety of things

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Speaker 5: where you'd have a you know, someone was asking me, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, there's an earnestness to the show, and and

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Speaker 5: how is that? And and I feel like the Daily

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Speaker 5: Show was very earnest. You may have thought it was cynical,

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Speaker 5: but it wasn't. It was more pathetically earnest and idealistic.

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Speaker 5: The only difference is we would have a correspondent deliver

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Speaker 5: that earnestness with archness. They would they would approach it

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Speaker 5: from the arch position, and then I would say that

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Speaker 5: sounds crazy. You know, I would be the mirror to

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Speaker 5: say to the person who is delivering an arch premise,

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Speaker 5: but that sounds like it's backwards. Well wow, So you know,

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Speaker 5: we had a lot of people on the show back

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Speaker 5: when I was doing it that were newsmakers, from Rumsfeldt

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Speaker 5: to Sibelius to Pelosi to all these people that were

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Speaker 5: Judith Miller. But I think it got in the in volume.

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Speaker 5: It's forgiving in one sentence in that when you fuck

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Speaker 5: up a show or you're not doing it well, or

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Speaker 5: you know, you can come back and take another crack

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Speaker 5: at it the next day. But also everything blended together

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Speaker 5: and kind of a stream of it, there becomes a

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Speaker 5: certain meaninglessness to Volume. Yeah, all it is is it

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Speaker 5: just plays into the churn.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, we totally get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean we experienced that. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: know our trajectory at all, but we were. This show

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Speaker 1: used to be at the Hill. It was five days

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Speaker 1: a week, and we've taken it independent and intentionally scaled

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Speaker 1: it back to three days a week, because, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: just get in the cycle where you're like, you realize

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Speaker 1: you're talking about stories that you don't actually really care about,

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Speaker 1: that you don't actually really think are great use of

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Speaker 1: the audience's time. You're hosting guests that you're like, this

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Speaker 1: person's not really adding anything to the conversation. So for us,

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Speaker 1: three days a week has been a good sweet spot

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Speaker 1: in terms of being able to we do a daily monologue.

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Speaker 1: Each of us think about have a topic that we

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Speaker 1: have time to get invested in. So I definitely hear that.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. You've got a great new

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Speaker 1: episode out on the media. We do a lot of

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Speaker 1: media critique here as well, so I want to dig

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Speaker 1: into that a little bit more. But one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite episodes that you did was on the economy, and

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Speaker 1: you took a part the sort of like moral panic

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Speaker 1: over socialism and also really pointed out that guess what, guys,

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Speaker 1: we have a lot of socialism for the rich. It's

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Speaker 1: only when it's you know, to benefit the working class

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Speaker 1: that suddenly we have these moral panics. And it just

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Speaker 1: struck me watching that episode ode that the critique and

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Speaker 1: the commentary was, to my ears a little bit sharper,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more pointed than from the Daily Show era.

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Speaker 1: And first of all, I wonder if you agree with that,

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Speaker 1: and if you feel like your politics have evolved or

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Speaker 1: changed over the interim since you were, you know, last

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Speaker 1: during the Daily Show.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think my politics are relatively consistent. It's

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Speaker 5: that I mean Honestly, you could have lifted that, and

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Speaker 5: I probably did the socialism for corporations to pit directly

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Speaker 5: from the Daily Show. Again, I think it's got to

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Speaker 5: do with having a little bit more time to craft

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Speaker 5: something that can be a little bit more specific and

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Speaker 5: a little bit more surgical. I think when you're you know,

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Speaker 5: comedy in general, and especially as I wielded, it is

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Speaker 5: pretty reductive. Just in general, it's, you know, comedy is

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Speaker 5: a distillation of a variety of assistant prejudices into a

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Speaker 5: you know, a kind of a catch all bucket. And

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Speaker 5: so I think for this it was about trying to

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Speaker 5: deconstruct the narrative of what is considered socialism. It's the

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Speaker 5: idea that for a certain status quo population in America,

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Speaker 5: an entitlement is just basically shit you don't need, and

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Speaker 5: a stimulus is shit you need that you think is important.

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Speaker 5: And so it's trying to make that point that if

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Speaker 5: you look at the status quo mainstream distillation of our

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Speaker 5: economic policy, we have this identity. The show always tries

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Speaker 5: to exist in the difference between what the image of

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Speaker 5: something is versus the room where that image is planned,

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Speaker 5: the meeting where where they design that image. Sometimes it's purposeful,

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Speaker 5: sometimes it's by happenstance. Sometimes it's malevolent. Sometimes it's just

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Speaker 5: blind spots and ignorance. But it's it's looking at that.

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Speaker 5: And it's pretty clear that the image of the United

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Speaker 5: States as a beacon of free market capitalism, where the

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Speaker 5: government doesn't choose winners and losers and just this leis

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Speaker 5: a fair and visible hand creates the wealth. This is,

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Speaker 5: this is how God intended money to be made, is

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Speaker 5: a fabrication and a fallacy. And I think the whole

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Speaker 5: point of the episode was to show that as specifically

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Speaker 5: as we could, and to show that it's sole an manipulation.

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Speaker 5: It's just a question of where the powers that be

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Speaker 5: decide to put the emphasis in that moment.

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Speaker 6: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I remember thinking so much during the Trump era, whenever

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Speaker 2: we had to react to some of the insanity. I

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Speaker 2: was like, Man, I wish John Stewart was around during

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Speaker 2: Russiagate and smart.

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Speaker 3: So to get to watch this episode.

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Speaker 2: Was like a cathartic experience because I remember thinking how

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Speaker 2: important it would have been to have you around at

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Speaker 2: that time. And I think the biggest problem John, which

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Speaker 2: you allude to, is, look, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I would have come to your house.

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Speaker 5: By the way, I would be Yeah, you just should

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Speaker 5: have called me how to come to your house. I

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Speaker 5: would have had me around. Wish I could have sat

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Speaker 5: on the couch with you and watch TV.

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Speaker 3: My mom would have been thrilled.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 2: But when I think about it, it's like, yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 2: Fox is bad.

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Speaker 3: Right wing media is bad.

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Speaker 2: We agree, you know, but the so many of the

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Speaker 2: same characteristics, the intertwinement of the administration talking points, building

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Speaker 2: up narratives, and as you point to in your interview

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Speaker 2: with Bob Iger, is it's not just that the media

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Speaker 2: is covering fear. It's that by their ridiculous and selective coverage,

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Speaker 2: they're influencing the trajectory of Paul and of politics in

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Speaker 2: this country is just as easily applied to so much

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Speaker 2: of whatever the corporate liberal media industrial complex as much

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Speaker 2: as it is on the right, John, Why is it

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Speaker 2: so difficult to get the people in that complex to

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Speaker 2: understand it? You know, Having come from a more conservative background,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you a lot of people at Fox

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Speaker 2: they know what's up, they know what they're doing. But

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Speaker 2: the people of the Washington Posts and the New York Times,

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Speaker 2: they truly believe they're doing the Lord's work exposing all

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Speaker 2: of this, and they don't even see their own, like

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Speaker 2: their own role in so much of the system that

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Speaker 2: they're helping to perpetuate. That's why I always found your

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Speaker 2: covered so valuable. Is just skewering of everybody, which I

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Speaker 2: think is.

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Speaker 3: Where most the majority of the country is. They hate

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Speaker 3: it all, all of it.

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Speaker 5: Well. So one of the difficulties of the nihilism that

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Speaker 5: should describe yeah, is I think you have to understand

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Speaker 5: it's about incentives and mechanisms right and the mechanism and

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Speaker 5: incentivizing for right wing conservative media is different from the

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Speaker 5: mechanism and incentivizing for what you would consider mainstream than

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Speaker 5: you know, left wing media. So yes, it's not about

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Speaker 5: a pox on all your houses. It's about criticism of

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Speaker 5: or examining each thing as its own separate entity, but

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Speaker 5: being as clear headed and smart about what you believe

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Speaker 5: to be. It's about looking at things on a different polarity,

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Speaker 5: whereas the mainstream media has set up kind of this

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Speaker 5: dynamic of right versus left because it's producible and it's

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Speaker 5: a good source of conflict, and it's reductive enough that

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Speaker 5: it's you can repeat it. I mean, the one thing

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Speaker 5: you guys know about making content is it's one thing

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Speaker 5: to be able to make it. It's another thing to

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Speaker 5: be able to make it all the time, every day consistently.

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Speaker 5: And that's their job. They're on the air twenty four

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Speaker 5: hour day, seven days a week, where you have talk

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Speaker 5: radio or you have all these other things that have

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Speaker 5: to be producible, and so producibility is an enormous foundational

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Speaker 5: principle of the dynamic of right and left. What we're

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Speaker 5: trying to do is look at it from a principle

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Speaker 5: of corruption versus integrity or noise versus clarity. Don't always

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Speaker 5: obviously achieve that, but that's the goal. So you know,

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Speaker 5: when you say something like the right wing media, yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's bad, but the left wing media is bad too,

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Speaker 5: it's not a question of them both being bad. It's

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Speaker 5: a question of what is one trying to achieve, what's

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Speaker 5: the incentive behind what they're trying to achieve, and how

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Speaker 5: are they going about achieving it. And I do think

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Speaker 5: there's a big difference between what CNN does and what

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Speaker 5: MSNBC does, And I think there's a big difference between

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Speaker 5: what all of them do and what the right wing

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Speaker 5: media sphere is much more directed and much more politically

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Speaker 5: a li mind and entwined. I mean, you saw that

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Speaker 5: after January sixth, the text messages back and forth were

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Speaker 5: between the President of the United States and his handlers

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Speaker 5: and Hannity and Ingram and you know, the right, the

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Speaker 5: right wings media is a much stronger arm of a

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Speaker 5: political movement.

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Speaker 7: That is true.

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Speaker 1: And Emerson, although I do want to say, I mean,

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Speaker 1: CNN just got caught in a big scandal where the

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Speaker 1: president of the network and his mistress were are stand

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Speaker 1: accused of, you know, helping Governor Cuomo at the height

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Speaker 1: of his popularity, coordinating talking points having him be interviewed

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Speaker 1: directly by his brother in prime time. Jensaki is now

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Speaker 1: being floated as a new host at either CNN or MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: Simone Sanders, who was constractor for the Vice president, is

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Speaker 1: at MSNBC.

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Speaker 4: So I'm not sure that there's a lot of political detach.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's revolving doors. And it's what I'm saying

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Speaker 5: is the coordination. You can't have it on the left

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Speaker 5: because the left is a much more fractious coalition. What

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Speaker 5: I'm saying is their bias tends more towards sensationalism, right

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Speaker 5: and easy narrative, and it's not relentlessly focused on achieving

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Speaker 5: political aims. They're just not, and if they are, they're

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Speaker 5: really bad at it. And I would say the example

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Speaker 5: you have about Chris Cuomo and Andrew Cuomo is much

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Speaker 5: more about protecting one of their own than it is

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Speaker 5: about protecting a political movement. That it had a lot

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Speaker 5: more to do with nepotism and the cozy relationship between

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Speaker 5: those industries than it did about, you know, trying to

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Speaker 5: advance medicare for all. You know the right wing media

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Speaker 5: is about and you've seen them have to flip now

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Speaker 5: when you look at their coverage of Russia and Ukraine, right,

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Speaker 5: So Russia is much more politically aligned with our political right.

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Speaker 5: They're defenders of They're an orthodox Christian state, defenders of

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Speaker 5: Western value. So there was great kind of common purpose

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Speaker 5: with our right wing media. And then this guy goes

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Speaker 5: like full Hitler and everybody's got a backtrack. But the

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Speaker 5: fact remains that there is a lot of common cause

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Speaker 5: in their sort of politics. Does that make sense? So

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Speaker 5: I'm not suggesting that left wing media is the same

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Speaker 5: as mainstream media is the same as right wing media.

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Speaker 5: But what I'm saying is you have to be able

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Speaker 5: to critique them for what they are and not put

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Speaker 5: them all in the same pot. And it's not both

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Speaker 5: sides arism to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's one well, there was one piece of

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Speaker 1: that that you pointed to you there with regards to

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Speaker 1: the Quomo scandal that I think is correct, which it

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Speaker 1: was much more about you know, Zucker interested in getting

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Speaker 1: the governor of New York who was this big political

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Speaker 1: star at the moment, sort of exclusive to his network.

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Speaker 4: It was great for.

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Speaker 1: Ratings to have this little like casual back and forth

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Speaker 1: with his brother where they're joking about swabbing each other's

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Speaker 1: noses or talking about mom spaghetti dinner or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: there was a money and corruption and nepotism angle there ultimately,

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Speaker 1: And that was one piece that I felt like was

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Speaker 1: a little bit left out of the episode that you

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Speaker 1: did on the media because you talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: the pressure for sensationalism for ratings. You know, anchors getting

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Speaker 1: the minutes by minute by minutes and seeing, okay, these stories.

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Speaker 1: You know, climate change is un sexy, but you know

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Speaker 1: Russiagate is very sexy. So we're going to lead with

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Speaker 1: it every single night, and the walls are closing in

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Speaker 1: and all of that.

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Speaker 4: But I do think part of.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that sort of coziness, in that clubbishness

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Speaker 1: where they're all in the same circle as the very

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Speaker 1: people whose feet they're supposed to be holding to the fire.

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Speaker 1: So that's how you end up with a situation like

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Speaker 1: Governor Quomas.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't just CNN.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was linizing these guys, this guy at the same

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Speaker 1: time that there were real questions about the handling of

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Speaker 1: nursing homes, about the liability corporate liability shield that he

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Speaker 1: was helping to usher through that was used as a

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Speaker 1: model by Republicans, and all of that was ignored because

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Speaker 1: they were all sort of in the same social circles,

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Speaker 1: and it's uncomfortable to hold people that you know and

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Speaker 1: consider as peers to account.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean yeah, you're you're dead on there.

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Speaker 5: And I've said that to everybody who works here, and

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Speaker 5: I said it to everybody to Daily Show, which is

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Speaker 5: when we all leave this show, look around this room,

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Speaker 5: because these will be your only remaining friends. You know,

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Speaker 5: we don't we we can't have we can't have colleagues

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Speaker 5: and you know that that cozy relationship and everybody depending

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Speaker 5: on each other for their for their livelihoods, and that

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Speaker 5: revolving door is an enormous issue. And it's why the

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Speaker 5: you know, White House correspondence issue should be taken out

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Speaker 5: in the back and were sent to a farm upstate,

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Speaker 5: like the idea that because you can't do your job

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Speaker 5: while protecting access and feelings. Yes, ever, and I think

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Speaker 5: it's an enormous problem, but I think beyond that problem,

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Speaker 5: you have to look at the dynamics of how they're

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Speaker 5: incentivized to make their money. Look, there are people there

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Speaker 5: that get bonuses for ratings right on the news and

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Speaker 5: so that naturally incentivizes it. Salaries are based on if

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Speaker 5: you can drive a better demographic. So those are all

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Speaker 5: the kinds of things that and they're competing for a

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Speaker 5: narrower and narrower audience. And I think if you drill

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Speaker 5: down with almost any of them, they don't think that. Look,

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Speaker 5: I'll give you an example. The way that they're covering

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Speaker 5: Ukraine is bold. It's brave, it's immediate a lot of times,

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Speaker 5: it's thoughtful, a lot of times, it's illuminating, and it's heartbreaking,

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Speaker 5: not just for what they're going through, but for having

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Speaker 5: to be on the front lines of something so dangerous.

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Speaker 5: But what it reminds you is there's a different model

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Speaker 5: to do all this. What it does is point out

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Speaker 5: the superficiality and the general tediousness and triteness of the

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Speaker 5: majority of their coverage. Yes, because it's not along the

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Speaker 5: lines of now, let's bring on Van Jones and Rick

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Speaker 5: Santorum to tell us how to put Ukraine into perspective.

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Speaker 5: They're not using the right left polarity. They're using right wrong.

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Speaker 5: They're using corruption integrity. Now, it doesn't mean that some

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Speaker 5: of it isn't manipulated, and some of it is and uh,

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Speaker 5: redundant and overdone. But what it shows is there's another

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Speaker 5: way to do this that's compelling, that is insightful and

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Speaker 5: within their grasp that they have the tools. And that's

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Speaker 5: all we're asking for is cover it in a manner

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Speaker 5: that is illuminating and not obfuscating, because generally, when you

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Speaker 5: buy into the two team paradigm there and they do

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Speaker 5: and they do it differently right and left in mainstream,

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Speaker 5: you're buying into a false dichotomy and one that clouds

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Speaker 5: the conversation and doesn't you know, so I when when

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Speaker 5: you look at that, it's hard to imagine, Well, if

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Speaker 5: you've got the capacity to do it this way, why

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Speaker 5: aren't we doing everything this way?

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is a just current

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Speaker 2: system system thinking sold that. O'Brien actually pointed that in

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Speaker 2: your episode whenever Crystal and I started our show, actually

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Speaker 2: a lot of what you said resonated with me. Whenever

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Speaker 2: you told the date of the Comedy Central guys, you're like,

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Speaker 2: let me do what I want and if you're not,

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Speaker 2: you can fire me. Everybody told us the covering the

403
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Speaker 2: news in a class first, in a non partisan way

404
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Speaker 2: was not going to work. They're like, nobody cares, it

405
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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Good luck all of this, you know. Now

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Speaker 2: it's what number one or whatever in the news category

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Speaker 2: on Spotify, which is not connected to a corporate media organization. Now, no, everyone,

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Speaker 2: But this is the point, though, which is that nobody

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Speaker 2: wants to take that leap of things. Nobody wants to

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Speaker 2: try and within that framework, it's not going to happen

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Speaker 2: at the most systematic level. But it's actually something I

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Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, which is that you are one

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Speaker 2: of those people who's not going to cut anybody slack

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Speaker 2: in an interview. Yet you got Jamie Diamond to sit

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Speaker 2: down with you, you got Bob Iger to sit down

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Speaker 2: with you, you got the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to sit.

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Speaker 3: Down with you. What is the model then for people.

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Speaker 2: Like us who are kind of coming up in your

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Speaker 2: footsteps because we find this problem. John Politician wants to

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Speaker 2: come on, but he wants to talk for five minutes

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Speaker 2: and stick to whatever is bullshit Bill is.

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Speaker 3: It's like, no, that's not how it works here.

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Speaker 2: And then they say, Okay, I'll go to CNN, I'll

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Speaker 2: go to MSNBC, I'll go talk to the New York Times.

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Speaker 2: You actually successfully broke through that barrier. How do the

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Speaker 2: people who are coming up do the same thing, or

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Speaker 2: is it even possible to have the same level of

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Speaker 2: household ID or whatever that you have from coming up

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Speaker 2: in legacy media in the two thousands of the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 5: Well, first of all, your goal can't be household ID.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not that not to be clear to get

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Speaker 3: the big interview too.

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Speaker 5: Well, but again even that, what your goal should be

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Speaker 5: is to get really good at diagnosing what are the

435
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Speaker 5: corrupting or corroding influences in whatever story. It's about becoming

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Speaker 5: a weather man for bullshit, for figuring out how is

437
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 5: this system incentivized for negati of outcomes or how is

438
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 5: this system incentivized to keep the status quo in power

439
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 5: at the expense of you know, you know, disenfranchised communities

440
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 5: or communities with less power. It's about power dynamics more

441
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 5: than anything else. And it's about learning how those work

442
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 5: and being able to diagnose them and being able to

443
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 5: articulate them in a really clear way. And if you

444
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: do that, and if you become a really expert at that,

445
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 5: and then you develop a constituency. And that constituency has

446
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 5: value to salespeople and politicians are salespeople at heart. And

447
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 5: if you have a constituency that they feel is an

448
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 5: important one or that they feel will have consequences for

449
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 5: them in a negative way, even if it's shame or

450
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: if it's uplift, if you develop that, then you can't

451
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 5: be ignored because you I mean, that's what that's the

452
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 5: right wing media model. You develop this constituency that can't

453
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 5: be ignored. My point is develop it in a way

454
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 5: that's honest, and that is looking at systems not in

455
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 5: a political way or a partisan way, but not being

456
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 5: ignorant that those are the dynamics which can affect change.

457
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 5: But make your arguments urgently and smartly about the dynamics

458
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 5: of situations and nuance and call out corrupted arguments wherever

459
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 5: you find them. Yeah, and that helps you build a constituency.

460
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 5: That's what it is, is earning your editorial authority. And

461
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 5: if you earn that, then you can use that to

462
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 5: get access to do those things. But if your access

463
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 5: is based on obsequiousness, or if your acts is based

464
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 5: on the care you will take for that person's you know,

465
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 5: fragile status quo world like, that's useless. It does no

466
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 5: good and you don't need the access. You can do

467
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 5: your the jobs you guys do you can do without access.

468
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: Certainly we do it every day, fortunately have Tom.

469
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 5: Let me ask you this we talking about.

470
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 1: Do you think that the cable news model is salvagable

471
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: because you know, I even think about the Ukraine War,

472
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: which you said, like you feel really good about the

473
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: coverage and they're doing you know, right versus wrong, versus

474
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: right versus left. But you know, at the same time,

475
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: the worst humanitarian crisis on the planet is happening in

476
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: Yemen right now. They don't find that good for ratings.

477
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: It's also inconvenient for their friends and politicians because Saudi

478
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: is one of our allies versus Russia's one of our adversaries.

479
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 4: Or you could look at the Ascan.

480
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: Where there was a lot of focus when we were

481
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: finally after years withdrawing our troops, and now that you know,

482
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: our freeze on that central the Afghan government's reserves is

483
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: helping to spark a mass humanitarian crisis and famine, suddenly

484
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: there's no coverage to be found. So given the fact

485
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: that there is such sort of like selective coverage, all

486
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: based on what's good for ratings, what's good for their

487
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: friends and whatever political circles that you know they're frequenting,

488
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: is it possible to change the cable news model to

489
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: be more edifying without just creating an entirely alternative ecomedia system.

490
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 5: You just did it. You you just did it. You

491
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 5: just explained how to do it.

492
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: But don't you have to change the incentives? How do

493
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: you change the incentives? Because right now it's not about

494
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: the individual people. You know, there's a certain type of

495
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: person that thrives in cable news because they're willing to

496
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: sort of accept the system as it is. But it's

497
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: really not about the individual people. It's about this system

498
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: that's ratings driven, that's access journalism driven. In that day,

499
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: twenty four hour news coverage striven. So can you change

500
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: that really fundamentally without sort of changing that structure altogether.

501
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 5: So I guess I don't buy the premise that if

502
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 5: you were to cover Yemen responsibly and give it the

503
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 5: attention that it deserves for the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan,

504
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 5: that you would suffer that your ratings would be, that

505
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: your ratings would be the problem. Now, there may be fluctuations,

506
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 5: but it's already an incredibly small, narrow group of people,

507
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 5: and it's designed by Nielsen, which is from like the

508
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 5: forties and fifties, So it's a nonsense rating system to

509
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 5: begin with, so to be judging important stories. The larger

510
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 5: problem for news organizations is they are really good at

511
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 5: singular focus. So when you have an event that matches

512
00:29:54,560 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 5: the magnitude of their news gathering firepower, that confluence works

513
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 5: really well. But the truth is they should be able

514
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 5: to cover all those things you're dead on right about Afghanistan.

515
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 5: The high dudgeon that everybody took about the mistakes that

516
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 5: were made in those two weeks, You're like, where the

517
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: fuck have you been? You know? And maybe if we

518
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 5: had covered it with the kind of aggressiveness that it

519
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 5: had deserved from the beginning, we wouldn't have been there

520
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 5: for as long as we were. That we would have

521
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 5: a different foreign policy that didn't rely on destroying countries

522
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 5: and then being their social safety net for the next

523
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 5: fifteen to twenty years as we try and rebuild them

524
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 5: to the point where they're friendly enough to us that

525
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 5: nineteen people in a basement in Hamburg couldn't plan an attack.

526
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 5: I mean, the whole thing is nonsensical from the get go.

527
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 5: But that being said, these companies make their money on

528
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: carriage fees, Like Fox News makes almost two billion dollars

529
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 5: a year, not just for ratings, but on they make

530
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 5: carriage fees. CNN makes carriage fees. EMSONBC does make the

531
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 5: kind of carriage fees that they do.

532
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: So why do you think, then, if it's not a

533
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: ratings issue, if it's not a ratings issue, why don't

534
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: they cover what's going on in them?

535
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 4: For example?

536
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: Because I would submit and tell me if you think

537
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: that I'm atas here it's it's chauvinism, but it's you

538
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: know this, what's going on in Ukraine is okay for

539
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: them to talk a lot about because not only is

540
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: it good for ratings, but it's also Russia is one

541
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: of our adversaries, so we're not going against one of

542
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: our allies. But in Afghanistan, you know, now it's the

543
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: Taliban in charge, and so we can't be you know,

544
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: seed to be nice to them. And with regards to Yemen,

545
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: Saudi's one of our big allies. They have a lot

546
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: of you know, money in this town and all over

547
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: the country, and a lot of ties to.

548
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 4: Political leaders here.

549
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: So it seems to me that that's a part of

550
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: how they choose what to cover and what to go

551
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: all in on, no.

552
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: Question, no question. I mean, it's you know, the Saudis

553
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 5: are considered an ally. I mean, it's it's very hard

554
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 5: to think of that regime as anything other than murderous,

555
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 5: especially after Kashogi and and those kinds of things. It's

556
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 5: a repressive regime certainly, But I think the other thing

557
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 5: that we have to talk about is what the people

558
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 5: of Ukraine look like. They look like us yep, and

559
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: Muslims are scary, and that world is primitive, and Africa

560
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: is primitive, and those worlds. I mean, they've they've said it.

561
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 5: Trevor did an unbelievable bit on this which was, you know,

562
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: a lot of news reporters going, you don't expect to

563
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 5: see this kind of construction and the.

564
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: Blonde haired and blue eyed the sea they watch Netflix.

565
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. So I think you're you're dealing with a

566
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 5: lot of look biases and prejudice are rife in everything.

567
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 5: The question is getting us to overcome the blind spots,

568
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 5: getting us to you know, not have that. And I've

569
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 5: sort of described it all the time as an eight

570
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 5: year old eight year old's playing soccer. There's a ball

571
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 5: and everybody runs to it and no one else is

572
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 5: on the field, Like hold your positions in other places

573
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 5: to give people a better perspective on everything that's going

574
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 5: on in the world. And it's not like it can't

575
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 5: be done. Yeah, it can be done, and I think

576
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 5: it can be done. To profitability. Now, will it be

577
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,719
Speaker 5: the billion dollars that CNN makes off their carriage fees

578
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 5: and things, I don't know, but it'll be fucking profitable

579
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 5: and if you get the right people involved to it,

580
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 5: it'll be dynamic and it's about telling stories and telling them.

581
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, well we agree with you, and people

582
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: are hungry for you know, real sort of unvarnished, as

583
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: you put it, uncorrupted, you know, attempts to sort what

584
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: is a complicated and nuanced world. So thank you John

585
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: for your time again.

586
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Yeah, I was just gonna say one more thing.

587
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

588
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 5: Ways, when you talk about that, the thing that people

589
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 5: always wonder is that doesn't mean it's not visceral exactly

590
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 5: or emotion right.

591
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 4: Yes, it doesn't. It's not like let's all come together.

592
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just you know, one of the things that

593
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: inspired us from the Daily Show that we tried to

594
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: bring into this show is your willingness to you know,

595
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: to just look at the landscape and point out the

596
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: absurdities wherever they were. And the other thing that we

597
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 1: really have tried to embrace here is engagement. That's probably

598
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: the most controversial part of our show, to be honest

599
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: with you, So thank you for that model. Guys, watch

600
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: the show is the problem with John Stewart. We've got

601
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: a nice little graphic we can put up there on

602
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: the screen it really is worth your I've gotten a

603
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: lot out of the show. I think the new model

604
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: has a lot to recom end it. So thank you

605
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: for your time today. We were grateful.

606
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 3: Thanks John.

607
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: It was a great honor and everybody goes subscribe to podcast.

608
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 5: Thanks man oh, thank you. Keep up the great keep

609
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 5: up the great work, guys.

610
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 3: Thank you sir doing our bust.

611
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 6: Thanks John, Marsha and Soccer here. Welcome back to the Realignment.

612
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 6: Hey everyone, we've got a great episode. We interviewed presidential

613
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 6: candidate vivike Ramashrami about his candidacy, what he's focused on,

614
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 6: his agenda's priorities, pushed him a bit. Only had thirty minutes,

615
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 6: not quite the format length we typically enjoy, but this

616
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 6: is what you get for entering in this side of

617
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 6: the game. Hope you all enjoy this conversation. We'll definitely

618
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 6: be following up.

619
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: Vivike Ramaswami, Welcome to the Realignment. Good to be on guys,

620
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 2: Absolutely so, Vic. I think it's important just to put

621
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: this out at the top. One of the ways I

622
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: became prominent, honestly, was just by interviewing newer candidates to

623
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 2: the field, unconventional candidates and kind of treating them seriously.

624
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: So at the top, I just want to say you

625
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: to the audience, I'm gonna treat you the same way

626
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: that I treated Andrew Yang, Tulsa Gabbard, President Trump, Mike Pompeo,

627
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: any of the people that we've interviewed here. So I

628
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: think at the top, number one, what is the case

629
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 2: for your candidacy.

630
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, the case for my candidacy is I'm not advancing

631
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 7: somebody else's vision. I'm advancing my own, and it is

632
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 7: a vision for national identity at a point where we

633
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 7: lack one. I think America is in the middle of

634
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 7: this identity crisis where if you ask most people my age,

635
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 7: most people your guys age, for that matter, what does

636
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 7: it mean to be an American in the year twenty

637
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 7: twenty three? You get a blank stare in response. And

638
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 7: I think that's a problem. And I think much of

639
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 7: what the Republican parties focused on attacking, from wokeism to

640
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 7: gender ideology, to climatism, to Covidism for that matter, which

641
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 7: I've also been a critic of, fierce critic of, is

642
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 7: just a symptom of that deeper identity crisis. And I

643
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 7: don't see another candidate in this field stepping up to

644
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 7: actually offer an affirmative vision of national identity that can

645
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 7: dilute that vision to irrelevance. And as part of that,

646
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 7: I'm also willing to take on issues that other candidates

647
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 7: in this field bluntly seem unwilling, frightened, or unable to

648
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 7: take on. I've committed to committed to an affirmative action

649
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 7: in America.

650
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 5: Okay.

651
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 7: I would love for another Republican candidate, all of whom

652
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 7: behind closed doors say they agree with me on this,

653
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 7: to say that out loud it could be done by

654
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 7: executive order. Most affirmative action in America. Not a lot

655
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 7: of people know this. The original sin the head of

656
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 7: the snake was a Lyndon Johnson era executive order. Every

657
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 7: Republican president since then could have crossed it out. Instead,

658
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 7: they complained about affirmative action without actually doing something about it.

659
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 7: Same thing with respective.

660
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 6: Climate, very quick, quick thing like isn't. Part of the

661
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 6: reason why Republicans don't do that is Republicans are doing

662
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 6: terribly in the center adjacent suburbs. I think the last

663
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 6: thing a republic would want to convey is that they're

664
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 6: going to start a racial battle at the Supreme Court, Like,

665
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 6: isn't that why they're not doing it.

666
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 7: I mean, maybe it's political calculus. I don't do the

667
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 7: political calculation. I asked the question about from this. This

668
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 7: is why I make this about American identity, from the

669
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 7: standpoint of what it means to be an American. What

670
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 7: are the values that define being an American. Part of

671
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 7: that to me is getting ahead not on the color

672
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 7: of your skin, but in the content of your character

673
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 7: and your contributions. That's what it means to put merit

674
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 7: back in America. And I think that there's actually broad

675
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 7: bipartisan consensus around that, more than most people appreciate. California,

676
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 7: you'll remember what was at Prop sixteen a couple of

677
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 7: years ago that a liberal state still voted down on

678
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 7: the back of saying that you, no, no, no, we

679
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 7: don't want to amend the state constitution to allow this

680
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 7: form of discrimination. So I think, actually this meek attitude

681
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 7: to think that actually we've got to compromise and somehow

682
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 7: we take these two sides as given. That's not my

683
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 7: theory of national unity. My theory of national unity is

684
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 7: we achieve national unity in this country not by showing

685
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 7: up in some proverbial middle and say, can't we all

686
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 7: hold hands, guys and sing Kumbayan get along? No, we

687
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 7: achieve national unity in America by embracing the extremism, the

688
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 7: radicalism of the ideas that set this nation into motion.

689
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 7: And you want to know the case from my candidacy,

690
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 7: I'm willing to embrace the extremism and the radicalism of

691
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 7: those American ideas even without regard to simple partisan labels

692
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 7: or political calculations. And my bet is the America people

693
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 7: are going to be able to tell the difference between

694
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 7: a foot soldier in the fight against wocism who's spouting

695
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 7: off talking points that you might have read in a

696
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 7: book or in a binder are given to you by

697
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 7: a political consultant, versus somebody whose actual, original bone, deep

698
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 7: conviction it is that drives this agenda. And in my case,

699
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 7: it's definitely the latter. From affirmative action to the climate

700
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 7: religion in this country to willingness to use the military

701
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 7: to solve the fentanyl crisis by going after cartels in

702
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 7: Mexico and using our military to protict the southern border.

703
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 7: Basic ideas that actually transcend I would say partisan lines,

704
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 7: but which other Republican candidates appear too fearful, bluntly to

705
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 7: be able to say out loud, I'm taking those I'm

706
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 7: taking on those sacred cows. And you know I say

707
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 7: this as a vegetarian, hinduo American myself. Take those cows

708
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 7: to the slaughterhouse, because that's what it's going to take

709
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 7: to spawn a national revival that's unapologetic.

710
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 6: Here's something I wonder too. You kind of had a

711
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 6: Bury Goldwater adjacent movement moment when you were talking about

712
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 6: like extremism. You had the famous extremism in the defensive

713
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 6: Liveries Novice. You're saying, we get the extremism the ideals

714
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 6: that you are describing. Do you get the sense that

715
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 6: the American people are asking for extremism right now? We

716
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 6: look at the twenty twenty two midterms like that was

717
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 6: the definition of a moment where the right thought there

718
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 6: was always populous energy, there's always aggression, and it actually

719
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 6: just turned out people don't like stop the steal and

720
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 6: want things to be pretty normal. That's the Joe Biden case.

721
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 6: What's the response to that.

722
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I don't think people are looking for partisan extremism,

723
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 7: because partisan extremism is a unproductive but be boring. It's

724
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 7: not even coherent. I mean, what does it mean to

725
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 7: be a Republican today? What does it mean to be

726
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 7: a Democrat today? These questions are on the table, They're circular.

727
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 7: Whereas I think what people are hungry for is a

728
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 7: sense of purpose and meaning and identity and cause. I mean,

729
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 7: I think our generation, all generations in this country today

730
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 7: are so hungry for purpose at a moment in our

731
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 7: history when the things that used to fill that void,

732
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 7: from faith to patriotism, to hard work to family, those

733
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 7: things have disappeared, and that's what creates this moral vacuum

734
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 7: in its way. So are people hungry for it now?

735
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 7: I think people are starved for it of what it

736
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 7: means to be American, a revival of a national identity

737
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 7: that we long for, hungering to be part of a

738
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 7: bigger nation. Filling that hunger with something greater than transgenderism

739
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 7: or wokeism or climatism. Yes, people are hungry for it.

740
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 7: Here's my problem, though, is the Republican Party so far

741
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 7: has not been stepping up to deliver an affirmative, inspiring

742
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 7: vision to fill that void, reviving ideas like merit, like

743
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 7: free speech, and open debate as our mechanism to settle

744
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 7: political questions rather than censorship, reviving the idea that who

745
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 7: have ever thought the people we elect to run the

746
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 7: government are the ones who actually run the government, rather

747
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 7: than this cancerous federal bureaucracy. These are basic American ideas,

748
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 7: and in fairness, I will tell you this, those are

749
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 7: extreme ideas. For most of human history it was not

750
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 7: done this way, although seventeen seventy six, on the other

751
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 7: side of the pond, in Old World Europe, it was

752
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 7: not done this way. So we're the weirdos here on

753
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 7: the American side of the Atlantic, in the post seventeen

754
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 7: seventy six version of our country. But that is part

755
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 7: of what makes us who we are, and we've obsessed

756
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 7: so much over you know, are different. We have similar

757
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 7: shades of melanin on this particular call, but across the country,

758
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 7: different shades of melanin. Who cares whether we look different,

759
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 7: whether we're diverse, if there's nothing greater that binds us

760
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 7: together across that diversity. So if there's one thing that

761
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 7: I think our citizenry is hungering for, it is a

762
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 7: revival of that commonality. Those basic ideals and dare I

763
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 7: say yes, embracing the extremism of those ideas, I will

764
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 7: not apologize for it, because that's what it means to

765
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 7: be American.

766
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 2: One of the talks about extremism right now, Vivik here

767
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: in Washington is a Republican standoff with the Biden administration

768
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: over the debt sealing and cutting Medicare and Social Security.

769
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: This isn't something I've heard you get way on. Where

770
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 2: do you stand on entitlement programs? Should they be untouchable

771
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 2: in any sort of deal? If you were the president

772
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: of the United States, what would you plan to do

773
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: so with those programs?

774
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 7: So the first observation I'd make is this is again

775
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 7: another one of these straw man partisan struggles. I mean,

776
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 7: one of the things that Republicans ought to be honest

777
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 7: about was that spending was high under President Trump. I'm

778
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 7: actually an unapologetic America first conservative of I think in

779
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 7: order to put America first, we have to actually redefine

780
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 7: and rediscover what America is now. Donald Trump he had

781
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 7: a lot of things right. One of the things he

782
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 7: didn't have right was the amount of money he's spent.

783
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 7: So I think that this is far from a partisan struggle,

784
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 7: So I generally favor spending less money as the federal government.

785
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: I thought about it time my programs.

786
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 7: You know, I want to give you the give you

787
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 7: the broad back drop. So look, I think that there

788
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 7: are easier ways to solve this than just sort of

789
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,399
Speaker 7: dig trenches and then pretend like we have some sort

790
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 7: of disagreement about it. Take somebody who's earned over ten

791
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 7: million dollars over their life, should they be eligible for

792
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 7: Medicare in the same way as somebody who hasn't earned

793
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 7: over a million dollars in their life. I think we

794
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 7: ought to be able to have that discussion rationally without

795
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 7: using toxic code words like means testing. I think if

796
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 7: you get really specific, I mean, that's a line that

797
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 7: I would draw. Okay, I think that somebody ten million,

798
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 7: and that's a lot of people in this country. And

799
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 7: I think that you know, in my you know, a

800
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 7: full policy team early days, first week of the campaign,

801
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 7: this is not one of my campaign priorities. Rock solid

802
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 7: on the twenty or so things that I do plan

803
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 7: to deliver. This is not Admittedly, entitlement reform is not

804
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 7: part of my case for the President's You asked me,

805
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 7: what was I'll tell you about it. This isn't on

806
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 7: the list, but it is something that a leader of

807
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 7: the United States is going to have to consider. And

808
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 7: the way I think about this is that there are

809
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 7: reasonable incremental steps we can take to get the country

810
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 7: back on the right track the way I saw for it.

811
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 7: What is on my agenda is shutting down many swaths

812
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 7: of the federal government because part of where you get

813
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 7: spending bloated the way it is is if you put

814
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 7: people in a job, they think they're supposed to do

815
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 7: the job, and all jobs in the federal government involves

816
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 7: not only spending money on their own employment, but spending

817
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 7: on money on behalf of the federal government itself. And

818
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 7: so when I say shut down the Department of Education,

819
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 7: part of that is because the Department of Education has

820
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 7: no reason to exist, but part of that at the

821
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 7: federal level. But also part of that is because it's

822
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 7: a step towards creating a culture in the federal government

823
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 7: of not only spending less money, but returning it to

824
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 7: the people to whom it belongs. So that's going to

825
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 7: be my main contribution. And I've laid out the fact

826
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 7: that I'm to shut down government ag ses, I'm going

827
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 7: to actually fire employees pursue it to Article two of

828
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 7: the Constitution, which says that actually the US president runs

829
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 7: the executive branch of the government, no matter what civil

830
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 7: service protections and statutes say. Those are the kinds of

831
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 7: issues I'm most focused on. But if you're gonna ask

832
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 7: me directly, I'll tell you where I am on those

833
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 7: entitlement rule.

834
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, here's the thing, like we're because I you

835
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 6: know this, like I'm not a huge fan of like

836
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 6: two thousands george'll b Bush, like naming the president of

837
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 6: like Taiwan, gotcha journalism. The reason why we're asking you

838
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 6: I think this actually matters beyond what you're saying, though,

839
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 6: is we could say whatever we want. What matters what

840
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 6: the voters actually think, and I could tell you the

841
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 6: Donald Trump twenty sixteen voters actually did not like how

842
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 6: Jeb Bush was not aligned with their vision of how

843
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 6: entitled and social security actually worked. So what I want

844
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 6: you to reckon with here, right, So talk about like

845
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 6: you're saying these values of like merit and like individualism

846
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 6: relate how that vision translates into how we treat old

847
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 6: people in this country. Because this is frankly a debate

848
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 6: with Obama, you're not being overturned, well, social security prioritization.

849
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 6: Failing that, the Left has broadly won. So express that

850
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 6: entitlement debate through the values you said at the top

851
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 6: of the episode.

852
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 7: Yes, So, look, I think that we have to start

853
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 7: with the lower hanging fruit to start a spawn a

854
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 7: cultural revival that gets us. So here's my theory of

855
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 7: the case philosophically, and then I can get to the

856
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 7: specifics as much as wat on policy. So my view

857
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 7: is a lot of the things we're going to have

858
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 7: to do in this American moment will demand sacrifice. The

859
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 7: one I've been most explicit about is decoupling from China.

860
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 7: I've called for a declaration of independence from China. Sounds

861
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 7: great on paper, in practice a lot harder than it sounds. Why,

862
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 7: because it's going to involve some trade offs. We got

863
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 7: addicted to buying cheap stuff for a long time. That

864
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 7: was a purposeful bargain we entered, but it got us

865
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 7: into the precarious geopolitical position we're in, where we're in

866
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 7: this codependent relationship with an enemy that's different than anything

867
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 7: we ever experienced with the Soviet Union in the last

868
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 7: Cold War.

869
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 6: Well quick to understand. Ild you understand this then, So

870
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 6: what you're saying is under your presidency, assume you could

871
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 6: get this past or whatever you could make this happen.

872
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 6: We cannot do business if anyone in China and American

873
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 6: So I'm just like a small business like garage cannot

874
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 6: source its goods from China. That's what you're saying.

875
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to be explicit about a couple of

876
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 7: things of what decoupling means. But at the limit, we

877
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 7: have to be prepared to tell us businesses that you

878
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 7: cannot do business in China unless and until the CCP

879
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 7: reforms its behaviors or the CCP falls. And then for

880
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 7: reasons I can explain to you, because I think China

881
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 7: is in a very precarious position right now, and we're

882
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 7: working within a short window we pull the rug out

883
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 7: from under them that delivers that reform and possibly the

884
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 7: fall of the modern CCP as we know it. Xijinping

885
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 7: shot China's economy in the foot to take his third

886
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 7: term last October. So there's a complex geopolitical view here

887
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 7: that informs my view that this is actually leverage we

888
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 7: exercise to defeat them economically. So that we never have

889
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 7: to militarily. I could go on for hours about that,

890
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 7: but I bring that back as an example to say that, yes,

891
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 7: we have to be willing, as you pointed out, to

892
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 7: make some short term sacrifices in order to achieve long

893
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 7: run game. But I think the American moment right now

894
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 7: calls not for Chamberlain, it calls for Churchill. It calls

895
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 7: for thinking on the time scales. Yes, I'm not shy

896
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 7: to say it, time scales of history rather than in

897
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 7: the time scales of an actoral cycle. And if we're

898
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 7: able to do that, okay, then we then I think

899
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 7: our kids and grand kids are going to be a

900
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 7: good place. But we can only do it if we

901
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 7: know what we're sacrificing for. And that's why it comes

902
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 7: back to this case for national identity. Okay, you know,

903
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 7: entering a family, think about values I inherited from my parents, right,

904
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 7: entering a marriage, having kids, raising a family, These things

905
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 7: involve a sacrifice and trade offs too. But you can

906
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 7: make those trade offs if you know what you're sacrificing for.

907
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 7: I think it's the same thing in your capacity, not

908
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 7: just as a family member or a parent, but as

909
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 7: a citizen. Of this nation too. And that's why my

910
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 7: focus and the next president of the United States. No

911
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 7: successful president, successful president in history, has been able to

912
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 7: take on everything at once. You pick the few things

913
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 7: you're going to do, clearly pledge what you're going to do,

914
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 7: go deliver, and accomplish it. In my case, it's going

915
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 7: to be to fill that void of a missing national

916
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 7: identity by setting in place, setting into motion a set

917
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 7: of policies that help us revive that sense of natural

918
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 7: national culture and pride, start to declare independence from China,

919
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 7: and begin to demonstrate how we're able to make the

920
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 7: short run sacrifices in order to do what actually needs

921
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 7: to be done in the long run on the scales

922
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 7: of history.

923
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 2: And so it may gives us us how I think

924
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: about my priorities there. Sure you're calling this America first

925
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: two point oh? And it really raises a question. I

926
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 2: know a lot of Trump people here in Washington. I

927
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: interviewed the presidents several times what was wrong with America

928
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: one point zero?

929
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 3: And there was quite a bit of a discussion.

930
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: You know, on the platform that you laid out, we

931
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: didn't see immigration there at the top. Is there a

932
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: reason that you didn't put immigration in your formulation of America.

933
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 2: First two point, Oh, you talked about wocism climatism, because

934
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: is in there?

935
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, Immigration's in there. I chose to do something that

936
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 7: most candidates don't do, is I launched my campaign both

937
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 7: on television and with the simultaneously published op ed in

938
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 7: the Wall Street Journal laying about I think the most

939
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 7: specific campaign launched that at least in modern history of

940
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 7: candidates launched with immigration was on there. I believe in

941
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 7: merit in immigration, so meritocratic immigration is the cornerstone for me.

942
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 7: I divide this in terms of accidental immigration versus versus inten.

943
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: What about overall levels of vague? Are we talking about?

944
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: So the discussion plan? So sorry, So go ahead.

945
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 7: Yeah, wrong discussion right. So I'm not rejecting your premis

946
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 7: because other people talk about this too. But look, I

947
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 7: think that we should ask ourselves what are the right

948
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 7: kinds of immigrants we want? Right now, we're getting the

949
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 7: wrong kinds of immigrants. People whose first act of entering

950
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 7: this country is a law breaking one should not be

951
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 7: permitted to enter this country. I say that unapologetically as

952
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 7: the cave of immigrants. I'm not a hardliner on that,

953
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 7: I believe in using the military to secure the southern

954
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 7: border if necessary, rather than protecting somebody else's border abroad.

955
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 7: This is a higher priority here. However, and by the way,

956
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 7: even in the legal immigration system, we have this hair

957
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 7: brained idea of a lottery based immigration. Co on Earth

958
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 7: would want America to pursue a lottery when you could

959
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 7: just pick the best ones instead right best ones as

960
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 7: defined by loyalty to this country, by willingness to make

961
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 7: contributions to this country, on the basis of economic and

962
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 7: otherwise career based track record to predict who's going to

963
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 7: make the biggest contributions to this country. So I think

964
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 7: merit based immigration ought to be the right answer. And

965
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 7: so these people who want to get this into discussion

966
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 7: about this many immigrants are not I say, there's two

967
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 7: problems with that. One is, let's say you just pick

968
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 7: level X, whatever that number is. It may be that

969
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 7: there are not enough immigrants who even meet that bar.

970
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 7: Why should we let that many immigrants in Conversely, if

971
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 7: we have immigrants who are really willing to serve this

972
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 7: country as citizens, make contributions, assimilate, be part of America,

973
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 7: and be proud of it, even more proud than people

974
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 7: who actually inherit their status as American citizens. Great, let's

975
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 7: have more of them. But that's so far from where

976
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 7: we are today. The problem today is that we actually

977
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 7: have an accidental immigration policy starting with a disastrous illegal

978
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 7: immigration influx starting at the southern border.

979
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: So it I just want to go back.

980
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 7: It's a false straw man that that otherwise exists in

981
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 7: this numerical debate that some people like that.

982
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: I understand what was wrong with America first? One point? Oh,

983
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 3: why is nothing wrong?

984
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 7: Nothing was wrong with America? Person, But I would I

985
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 7: wouldn't borrow the lingo America first if I thought something

986
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 7: was wrong with it. I just think we need to

987
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 7: take it to the next level.

988
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 3: So but then the follow up on that, right, President

989
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: Trump is there in the race? Who was in the race?

990
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: Whenever you announce your candidacy, two point zero is going

991
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: to be juxtaposed then with one point zero? So why

992
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: is two point zero then better than one point The

993
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: original version is on the ticket right now.

994
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 7: A couple of things here, so I can get specific

995
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 7: on the policies. I think I'm just willing to do

996
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 7: certain things that President Trump, if he was going to

997
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 7: do them, would have done them already, right. Eliminating affirmative

998
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 7: action is the easiest example, because that can be done

999
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 7: by executive order. But that's small ball, Okay, compare small

1000
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 7: not small ball, but small picture compared to the deeper

1001
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 7: answer to your question. I think in order to put

1002
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 7: America first, we need to rediscover what America is. Okay.

1003
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 7: I care a lot about national unity, and I know

1004
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 7: President Trump, he's a friend. He's misunderstood on us. He

1005
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 7: cares about national unity too, I know he does, but

1006
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 7: he I don't think is capable in the same way

1007
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 7: of delivering it, because if he was, we wouldn't be

1008
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 7: where we are right now. And so to me, I

1009
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 7: think the thing that I care about many of your

1010
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 7: listeners care about many Consernais in this country care about.

1011
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 7: What Donald Trump cares about is having not a national divorce.

1012
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 7: And one of the things about this conversation about a

1013
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 7: national divorce is the more you talk about it, the

1014
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 7: more it speaks itself into existence. I care about having

1015
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 7: one nation left at the end of it, e pluribus

1016
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,359
Speaker 7: unum from many one. That is the vision that set

1017
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 7: this nation into motion two hundred and fifty years ago.

1018
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 7: And I think we need a leader who is capable

1019
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 7: of actually delivering on that, both by going further than

1020
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 7: Donald Trump ever did on questions from affirmative action to

1021
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 7: dismantling this climate religion the shackles of the United States

1022
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 7: without shackling China. That's going further on putting America first,

1023
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 7: also has a clear north star on the ideals that

1024
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 7: set American motion, and speak to that with national unity

1025
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 7: as an express objective. On the other side of.

1026
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 6: It, there is a contradiction here. You're talk about in

1027
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 6: noasri unity, but you say something like climate religion basically

1028
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 6: flips the bird at half the country. How do you

1029
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 6: get national unity through polariz I.

1030
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 7: Disagree with you on that premise, Actually respectfully disagree with you. First,

1031
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 7: I think that most people in this country agree with

1032
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 7: everything I've said so far. Okay, that there is a

1033
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 7: climate religion that shackles the United States without laying a

1034
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 7: finger on China. That the United States should be producing

1035
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 7: more fossil fuels, and it's completely hypocritical to tell companies

1036
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 7: like Exon and chef that they can't to only shift

1037
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 7: that oil production to places like Petro China in China.

1038
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 7: Last time, I checked it was global climate change. And

1039
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 7: even if you subscribe to the tenets of this religion,

1040
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 7: methane leakage is far worse over there than it is here,

1041
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 7: and methane is eighty times worse for global warming even

1042
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 7: than a unit of carbon dioxide. So a lot of

1043
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 7: this is a farce. I mean, even the ESG movements

1044
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 7: and the climate movements, hostility to nuclear energy defuddels the

1045
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 7: mad Belies reality, because even if you cared about carbon

1046
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 7: production or carbon emissions, you would be embracing nuclear energy production.

1047
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 7: So I think a lot of people see through that hypocrisy.

1048
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 7: A lot of people understand that, as I've joked around,

1049
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 7: this has about as much to do with the climate

1050
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 7: as the Spanish Inquisition had to do with christ Okay,

1051
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 7: so you're not flipping the bird on Christians by saying

1052
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 7: that you actually oppose the Spanish Inquisition at the height

1053
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 7: of the height in civil in the fifteenth century, I

1054
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 7: think the same thing is true in America today. People

1055
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 7: recognize that these religious movements aren't even about the gods

1056
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 7: that they propose to care about, from racial equality to

1057
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 7: the climate. They've really become vehicles for aggregating power for

1058
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 7: the people who wield these magic words as a way

1059
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 7: of exercising dominion and control and even punishment self punishment

1060
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 7: on the back of it. And I think that goes

1061
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 7: for the racial equity agenda to climate change in a

1062
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 7: with it. By the way, the calls I've gotten, I've

1063
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 7: been surprised, even from Democrat friends or otherwise after they

1064
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 7: watch my opening video and you know, only been one

1065
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,959
Speaker 7: week on the campaign trail, but saying that, you know what,

1066
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 7: I'm afraid to say this to my friends, but actually

1067
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 7: a lot of them like what you're saying. Wait, what

1068
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 7: did I say in my opening video. I don't care

1069
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 7: if you're black or white, or Democrat or Republican. If

1070
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 7: you're on board with these basic principles, these basic rules

1071
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 7: of the road, then we're on the same team. And

1072
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 7: we can disagree on whether Ivermectin treats COVID or whether

1073
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 7: corporate tax rates should be high or low. But if

1074
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 7: we're on board with the unapologetic pursuit of excellence, of

1075
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 7: free speech and open debate of self governance over aristocracy,

1076
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 7: of recognizing that China is indeed our number one long

1077
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 7: run threatened, that it's worth making some sacrifices to address that.

1078
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 7: That's what it means to be American today, and that's

1079
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 7: a pro American movement that transcends these, I would say

1080
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 7: somewhat boring even stopophoric, partisan boundaries that we've somehow become

1081
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 7: a prisoner of, in part because of modern media and

1082
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 7: a bunch of other reasons.

1083
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 6: Sure, so we've got We've got less than five minutes left,

1084
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 6: so sorry, and I will be quick about these ones.

1085
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 6: So you had an interesting interview with Hugh Hewitt earlier

1086
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 6: in the week. You didn't know what the nuclear trad

1087
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 6: meant pride was. We'll put that to the side. You

1088
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 6: can learn what that term means. I know you know

1089
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 6: what it is now. That said, I think the significance

1090
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 6: behind the question, though, is the president is in charge

1091
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 6: of the means to end the earth. You can definitely

1092
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 6: train to learn what acronyms mean. I'm not convinced that

1093
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 6: you could learn in a year and a half during

1094
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 6: partisan Fox News hits podcasts like this. How do I

1095
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 6: actually sit down with Shijing ping er Vladimir Putin? Convince

1096
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 6: me otherwise? Because I got your point about how make

1097
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 6: a great point that work?

1098
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 7: And thank you for taking the superficiality out of it,

1099
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 7: because you know, anyone can learn a term, right, so

1100
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 7: this is a word. Okay, I understand that there's land,

1101
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 7: air and see. But I'm approaching this with humility. So

1102
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 7: I think I think one of things is it's different

1103
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 7: is yes, I'm I fast study. Yes. Have I taken

1104
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 7: on other complicated problems before and learned them fast? Sure,

1105
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 7: But I got to approach this, and I am approaching

1106
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 7: this with humility. So I'll just tell you where I

1107
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 7: came from. Earlier today, I was having lunch upstairs in

1108
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 7: my house in the basement now with a former cabinet

1109
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 7: level secretary from the Trump administration who was over here

1110
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 7: visiting me. We spent two hours training on the relevant issues.

1111
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 6: You know, training after one precise I think precise? What

1112
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 6: does training mean? Does train it? Because once again, let

1113
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 6: me tell you a quick story. Berlin, nineteen sixty one.

1114
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 6: Incredibly important. JFK he's in the presidency. He meets in

1115
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 6: Vienna with Krushchev. He looks like a full in front

1116
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 6: of Khrushchev because JFK is a very smart guy, but

1117
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 6: he was like kind of not really ready for it.

1118
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 6: Khrushchev builds the Berlin Wall Quan missile crisis. That is

1119
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 6: the definition of an example of how in the presidency

1120
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 6: there was no training for that. The JFA could have

1121
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 6: done between nineteen totally nineteen nine nineteen sixty. So what

1122
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 6: does training mean in that context for.

1123
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 7: You is at least understanding the history and the status quo.

1124
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 7: But you can't. You have to analyze as a future situation.

1125
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 7: You can never do it by analogizing as a substitute.

1126
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 7: But one thing that we're going to do that's different

1127
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 7: on this campaign, and I haven't talked about this, so I'll

1128
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 7: mention this to you guys, is we're going to tape that.

1129
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 7: We're going to do it daily. We got two hours

1130
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 7: at least daily where there's somebody coming in flying here

1131
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 7: spending time with me in Columbus, Ohio. We're going to

1132
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 7: actually let the world watch how I learn. Okay, nobody

1133
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 7: and by the way, many of the governors who were

1134
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 7: running they're utterly unprepared on foreign policy as well. Not

1135
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 7: because it's their fault, it's just not in the nature

1136
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 7: of what it means to be a governor. So nobody

1137
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 7: is really prepared.

1138
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 6: To cause it's important. YEP, I would not debate that you,

1139
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 6: being incredibly educated and smart, may know more information at

1140
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 6: the end of this campaign than a governor does. But

1141
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 6: the issue of George W. Bush wasn't that he didn't

1142
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 6: know enough facts. It's that when nine to eleven happened,

1143
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 6: he had terrible judgment. He had terrible judgment. He was

1144
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 6: emotionally immature, he wasn't intellectually suited for the job. He

1145
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 6: was foisted upon. I'm just concerned if we reduce this

1146
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,439
Speaker 6: to an SAT quiz that's playing to your strengths being

1147
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 6: to the actual job.

1148
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 7: There's difference being smart and being wise. And you know what,

1149
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 7: in the nature of this conversation, there's nothing I can

1150
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 7: say that would convince you or should convince you of

1151
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 7: the answer to your question. Right, But I think that

1152
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 7: what you want is somebody who approaches it with humility.

1153
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 7: This is a long process for a reason. I think

1154
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 7: the early States in Iowa, New Hampshire played a really

1155
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 7: important role here where people actually I spend a little

1156
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 7: bit time there lost because really impressed. I mean, people

1157
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 7: have a sixth sense for who's real, who's not. What

1158
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 7: to ask I mean the questions and the exchange the

1159
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 7: parts that they were picking up on. We have an

1160
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 7: all right process. It's not a perfect process, but we

1161
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 7: have an alright process for vetting who gets to run

1162
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 7: the free world. I'm entering this ring pretty early to

1163
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 7: go through that. People should be skeptical of me or

1164
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 7: anybody else, but maybe especially somebody who's young, who's never

1165
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 7: held political office, who has the hubrist to think he

1166
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 7: can run for president of the United States. And you

1167
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 7: know what, we will leave that to the voters next year.

1168
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 7: I think that this year should be about defining the agenda.

1169
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 7: So for a second, I ask to you and everyone

1170
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 7: watching this is forget the question about the who in

1171
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 7: the primary for a little bit. Let's first define the

1172
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 7: what and the why. What do we stand for? Why

1173
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 7: do we stand for it? I think that's what's missing

1174
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 7: in the Republican Party. I expect, you know, bluntly, I'm

1175
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 7: not trying to be humble here, as you can tell,

1176
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 7: I think I have already this last week and will

1177
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 7: continue to lead the way in specifically defining an agenda,

1178
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 7: offering specific policy solutions. I invite the other candidates to

1179
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 7: join me. That's what this year should be about. Sure,

1180
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 7: next year should be about the question of the who okay,

1181
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 7: And I will be very transparent and open about this.

1182
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 7: People have a chance to watch how I learn. I

1183
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 7: will approach this with humility. And you're right, there's a

1184
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 7: temperament question to this too. Is not just about who

1185
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 7: has the right ideas, though I think this year's emphasis

1186
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 7: should be on that. But next year, let the voters

1187
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 7: decide who they think that right standard bearer is going

1188
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 7: to be. And I hope that I'll learn the trust

1189
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 7: of the people who vote for me.

1190
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 2: I have faith in the democratic process as well. So

1191
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: last two questions, I know you've got to get out

1192
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 2: of here. Number one, on the election of twenty twenty,

1193
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: was it stolen or not?

1194
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 3: Yes or no question?

1195
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 7: Yes, but not in the way that not in the

1196
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 7: way that you mean that question.

1197
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 3: Okay, So what I think it was.

1198
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,919
Speaker 7: I think the technology companies tilted the scales of public debate. Okay,

1199
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 7: I think that this was. I think the Hunter Biden

1200
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 7: laptop storyes what was wrong with the lead up to

1201
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 7: that election cycle. There was a true story that was

1202
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 7: censored in the name of misinformation, actually created more misinformation

1203
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 7: that somehow this was Russian disinformation. Guess what this was

1204
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 7: American disinformation? That that actually wasn't a true story. By

1205
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 7: the way, the same lesson we've learned this last week

1206
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 7: as it relates to the COVID lab league. And so

1207
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 7: I think that I think the twenty six I think

1208
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 7: the real If I had to pick one election that

1209
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 7: was stolen from Trump, though it was actually the twenty

1210
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 7: sixteen election, the one that he won, not the one

1211
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 7: that he lost, because he had to actually deal with

1212
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 7: two years of a fraudulently based inquiry that was based

1213
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 7: on completely false and politicized premises. But I also think

1214
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 7: that we should stop using these retroactive We're not going

1215
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 7: to move forward by adjudicating the past. We're going to

1216
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 7: have to understand going forward, how are we going to

1217
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 7: fix the democratic process. And it's not just about the

1218
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 7: ballots we cast every November. It's about a democratic culture

1219
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 7: of free speech and open debate. And I think the

1220
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 7: litmus test for the health of a democratic process is

1221
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 7: actually the percentage of people who free to say and

1222
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 7: are free to say what they actually think in public.

1223
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 7: I think over the last eight years we've done poorly

1224
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 7: in that regard. I think we have an opportunity to

1225
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 7: do better since that the twenty twenty four election can

1226
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 7: put that dirty pass behind us.

1227
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: No disagreement on much of what you said, but I

1228
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 2: do have to get specific because it's an important thing.

1229
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 3: I'm talking about mass voter fraud. There was no mass

1230
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 3: voter fraud in the twenty twenty election.

1231
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 7: I have not seen any evidence of mass voter fraud.

1232
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 7: I distinguished that from micro examples that have clearly been

1233
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,479
Speaker 7: reported and documented. I have not seen evidence of mass

1234
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 7: voter fraud.

1235
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: No great and final question here is on abortion. So

1236
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 2: one of the Vice President Pence and big disagreement between

1237
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 2: him and President Trump is on a national abortion ban.

1238
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 3: Where do you stand on national abortion ban?

1239
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 5: So?

1240
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 7: I am pro life. However, I think that for years,

1241
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 7: on constitutional grounds, we have correctly argued that this is

1242
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 7: a state's issue, and I think it should remain a

1243
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 7: state issue. I think overturning Row in the Dobbs decision,

1244
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 7: I think it was the right decision on hard constitutional grounds,

1245
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 7: full stop, hardline on that, crystal clear. I think that

1246
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 7: we constitutionally finally got it right. That's where I'm at.

1247
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 7: For years it was argued to be a state's rights issue,

1248
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 7: and both for constitutional as well as public policy reasons,

1249
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 7: I think that's where it rested.

1250
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 2: So would you sign any federal abortion legislation fifteen week ban,

1251
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 2: twenty two week ban as proposed in the Congress.

1252
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 7: As somebody who is staunchly pro life and unapologetic about

1253
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 7: that fact, I think that the states should get to

1254
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 7: that answer.

1255
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 2: That's okay, so all right, well with Viak Gramase, Sammy.

1256
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you taking the time to join us.

1257
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 2: We know that you took some time out of the schedule.

1258
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: I look forward to some of the videos that you're

1259
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 2: talking about, the two hour videos, the education chestins and

1260
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 2: welcome back on the show anytime.

1261
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, appreciate you guys, absolutely