Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
Speaker 1: This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one. It's part
Speaker 1: of my series of interviews with people talking about how
Speaker 1: they take their days from great to awesome. I am
Speaker 1: so excited to introduce you today to Kathleen Paley, who
Speaker 1: is a lawyer, a dedicated volunteer, a mother, and a podcaster,
Speaker 1: among other things. And what I love about talking with
Speaker 1: Kathleen is that she is always looking for ways to
Speaker 1: make the world around her better as she is also
Speaker 1: looking for ways to make her own life run well. So, Kathleen,
Speaker 1: welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Good morning, Thank you for having me. I'm just honored
Speaker 2: to be here.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, please tell our little listeners a little bit
Speaker 1: about yourself.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll try not to repeat what you do share,
Speaker 2: but you're right. I'm a lawyer and a mom. I
Speaker 2: have two teen preteen kiddos, and I'm a litigator of
Speaker 2: the big law firm in DC. And you put those
Speaker 2: together and that's a lot to handle. But I don't
Speaker 2: want that to be all of life. So I have
Speaker 2: a few volunteer gigs and have so many kind of
Speaker 2: thoughts about using our time and our resources in effective
Speaker 2: efficient ways that I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 2: got to start a podcast too to talk about all this.
Speaker 2: So there are a lot of balls in the air,
Speaker 2: and that makes for a very busy but also very
Speaker 2: fun life.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, I wonder if you could talk through a
Speaker 1: little bit about your morning routine, and from what I understand,
Speaker 1: you have more of a hybrid schedule where some days
Speaker 1: you are working from home and some days you are
Speaker 1: in your office, and obviously some days you're on the
Speaker 1: road as well. But maybe you could talk through what
Speaker 1: your morning routine looks like on those different days and
Speaker 1: how you figured out what works for you.
Speaker 2: All right, yes, you are very correct, I will say,
Speaker 2: the days they're on the road, I have no morning
Speaker 2: routine except get up and just like start grinding for work.
Speaker 2: But when home there are two kind of templates Mondays
Speaker 2: and Fridays. I work from home and that gives a
Speaker 2: lot of flexibility in terms of how the morning goes. Now,
Speaker 2: one of the things I think is incredibly valuable to
Speaker 2: my own values and like the life I want to
Speaker 2: live is I want to take my kids to the
Speaker 2: bus stop, and so even though I have a teen
Speaker 2: who is over six feet tall and does not want
Speaker 2: to be taken to the bus stop, we still walk
Speaker 2: together in the morning and it's a nice few minutes
Speaker 2: to just chat and very relaxed. So on work from
Speaker 2: home mornings, I get up at six fifteen and we
Speaker 2: are out the door by six thirty going to the
Speaker 2: bus stop. But that gives a lot of flexibility between
Speaker 2: about six thirty and nine o'clock. Now, I used to
Speaker 2: feel like as soon as I was done with like
Speaker 2: official parental duties, I should start working, So by six
Speaker 2: forty five or seven am, I should be doing you know,
Speaker 2: billable lawyery work. And with time I realized that that
Speaker 2: does not build the kind of life I want. I'm
Speaker 2: going to do all the work that needs to be done,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't need to be done at that time.
Speaker 2: So now on those mornings when I'm working from home,
Speaker 2: between about six forty five and nine o'clock, I use
Speaker 2: that time for things that I find valuable. That includes
Speaker 2: things like at this point, drafting podcast scripts and reading
Speaker 2: and spending time with my other kid, or going Sometimes
Speaker 2: I just go for a walk and it's just lovely,
Speaker 2: especially now that the fall weather is starting to arrive,
Speaker 2: to just go for a walk, stretch your legs, clear
Speaker 2: your thoughts, get sort of energized for the day. And
Speaker 2: so that means two Mores, Mondays and Fridays, I have
Speaker 2: about two and a half hours of flexible time to
Speaker 2: do stuff that I find life affirming. I also throw
Speaker 2: in a load of laundry, you know, unload the dishwasher,
Speaker 2: do those sorts of things to keep you know, the
Speaker 2: daily rhythms of family life going. But those don't actually
Speaker 2: take all that much time. They take kind of a
Speaker 2: mental load, but they don't take a lot of time. So,
Speaker 2: you know, this morning, we're filming on a Friday, and
Speaker 2: I took the kid to the bus stop, and then
Speaker 2: I wrote out some interview questions for my own podcast.
Speaker 2: I read for a while, I journaled for a while,
Speaker 2: and I went for a walk. And so you do
Speaker 2: that twice a week. That's five hours a week of
Speaker 2: really like good kind of you could almost call it.
Speaker 2: I kind of hate the term self care, but in
Speaker 2: a way, it's like self care time. Now three days
Speaker 2: a week I go into the office. That starts with
Speaker 2: take the kid to the bus stop, and then go
Speaker 2: straight to the office. But that means I'm getting there
Speaker 2: really early, like in the seven of hour, which gives
Speaker 2: a great jumpstart to the day to get through the
Speaker 2: backlog of things that need to be done and before
Speaker 2: the office fills up. And so I like that sort
Speaker 2: of quiet, slightly contemplative time at the office three mornings
Speaker 2: a week when it's just me and my caffeine source
Speaker 2: and my inbox, and I try to very much like
Speaker 2: match the work to the energy levels and you know,
Speaker 2: the rhythms that are going on, so I can blast
Speaker 2: through a whole ton of stuff before people arrive.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, mornings really are a great time to get
Speaker 1: things done. And I love that since Monday and Friday
Speaker 1: are work from home days, you even start the week
Speaker 1: with a big dose of this morning self care. Right,
Speaker 1: it feels a little bit different than just diving straight
Speaker 1: into to the office. It's probably a very different sort
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that really dramatically reduces those Sunday scaries
Speaker 2: when you know, oh, tomorrow morning, I've got a little
Speaker 2: bit of flexibility. There's a little bit of a a
Speaker 2: like a mental bridge to get into you know, the
Speaker 2: weak full speed.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So your podcast is called minimal dish, So like minimalism,
Speaker 1: but ends with minimal dish. So what do you mean
Speaker 1: by minimalish and what is appealing to you about sort
Speaker 1: of a lighter version of minimalism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I think the driving force
Speaker 2: for me is that I want to remove distractions so
Speaker 2: that I can focus on the very many, many cool
Speaker 2: things that life presents, all of these opportunities. The issue is,
Speaker 2: I think sometimes the term minimalism is it's hijacked a
Speaker 2: little bit into people who talk about like I want
Speaker 2: to do nothing, I want total emptiness of the schedule,
Speaker 2: and it's its own little cult in a way that
Speaker 2: does not appeal to me. I do not want emptiness.
Speaker 2: I do want not want nothing. Thing that is totally unappealing.
Speaker 2: And so that sort of brand of minimalism you see online,
Speaker 2: I think that it's boring and it can come off
Speaker 2: as sort of preachy or self righteous. And what I'm
Speaker 2: looking for is figuring out how to focus on what
Speaker 2: I figure in my own life to be the right stuff.
Speaker 2: But when there's so much going on, that does mean
Speaker 2: needing to kind of cut out the clutter. And so
Speaker 2: there are four kinds of clutter you could say that
Speaker 2: I've tried to cut out in life. One is visual clutter,
Speaker 2: stuff management, just you know, you know, when you've got
Speaker 2: kids and you've got a lot of balls in the air.
Speaker 2: I think we both have dogs. There's a lot to
Speaker 2: keep going, and having just less stuff around, particularly for
Speaker 2: those of us who are sort of distracted by visual clutter,
Speaker 2: is helpful, just having fewer things to manage. I also
Speaker 2: try to cut out schedule clutter and keep the commitment
Speaker 2: levels to the right level. And one example is my
Speaker 2: kids are both pretty competitive athletes, and we want them
Speaker 2: to be able to play at a competitive level. But
Speaker 2: we don't want entire weekends every weekend to be taken
Speaker 2: up with tournaments where you're driving six hours away, you're
Speaker 2: spending all day, you're staying the night, you're doing a
Speaker 2: tournament the next day too. That's not the right level
Speaker 2: of commitment for us, So schedule clutter. We let them
Speaker 2: play in a travel league that has two games a week,
Speaker 2: not like an AAP basketball league where you're doing the
Speaker 2: tournament every weekend. We don't want to be essentially taxi
Speaker 2: drivers for our entire lives, so schedule clutter. We try
Speaker 2: to keep things at a level that like lets them
Speaker 2: compete but doesn't ruin the family dynamic. I also try
Speaker 2: to cut out financial clutter. That includes being very reflective
Speaker 2: on what spending actually gives value to our lives and
Speaker 2: what doesn't, and really questioning some questioning the defaults that
Speaker 2: we tend to fall into, particularly when life is busy
Speaker 2: and you could start throwing money at everything. I want
Speaker 2: to figure out where I really get value from throwing
Speaker 2: money at the problem, And like, right now I have
Speaker 2: some cleaning folks in my home because I get value
Speaker 2: from having someone help with that. But there are other
Speaker 2: things that we don't, you know, we don't throw money
Speaker 2: at that. Also that removing financial clutter also involves eliminating debt.
Speaker 2: We just paid off everything as quickly as possible, and
Speaker 2: that is such a reduced mental load of just worry.
Speaker 2: It reduces your worry when you don't have debt. And
Speaker 2: then finally, I know I've gone on a long time here.
Speaker 2: I try to remove mental clutter, and that the way
Speaker 2: I put it is, uh I have Maybe this is
Speaker 2: just part of being in your forties, but I've really
Speaker 2: stopped caring about the judgments of others and what they're
Speaker 2: going to say about my choices. I'm willing to be
Speaker 2: a little bit unconventional. I'm willing to be a little
Speaker 2: bit weird, and if someone thinks that it's strange, I
Speaker 2: really don't care. We're going to live lives on our
Speaker 2: own terms. So that's my take on Minimalish, cutting out
Speaker 2: various forms of clutter so that we can live the
Speaker 2: lives that make us sort of very individually, particularly most satisfied.
Speaker 1: Sounds good. Well, we're going to take a quick ad
Speaker 1: break and then we're going to come back and learn
Speaker 1: about a very cool project that Kathleen did before turning forty. Well,
Speaker 1: we are back for those just joining us. This is
Speaker 1: the longer version of Before Breakfast. Once a week or so,
Speaker 1: I am doing an interview with someone who is doing
Speaker 1: cool things in their lives, taking their days from great
Speaker 1: to awesome. We are talking with Kathleen Paley, who is
Speaker 1: a lawyer, a mother, a volunteer, and the host of
Speaker 1: the Minimalish podcast. Well, Kathleen, you did a really cool
Speaker 1: project of forty acts of kindness before turning forty. I
Speaker 1: believe I wonder if you could talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that project and maybe just highlight one or two
Speaker 1: of the things you did as part of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to memorialize turning forty in some kind
Speaker 2: of way, but was not seeking a big birthday party
Speaker 2: or anything that's actually turns out to be a good thing,
Speaker 2: because I turned forty in the summer of twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: so if there had been a desire for a big
Speaker 2: birthday party, that was not going to happen with the
Speaker 2: pandemic going on. But it's late twenty nineteen, and I
Speaker 2: just wanted to memorialize this time and do something special.
Speaker 2: And I thought, well, there are like bucket lists of
Speaker 2: forty before forty things to do, adventures to have, and
Speaker 2: that all sounded fun. But I thought, what about forty
Speaker 2: small acts of kindness things that we could do within
Speaker 2: our community, within our families, would just help brighten someone's day.
Speaker 2: And so I put together list, took a few months
Speaker 2: sort of iterating on it, and put together list with
Speaker 2: a few categories of acts of kindness to do, and
Speaker 2: over the course of the next you know, six months
Speaker 2: or so, I knocked out almost all the list and
Speaker 2: it was a lot of fun. The categories included things
Speaker 2: like goods and money, you know, giving goods in money,
Speaker 2: respect and encouragement, time and talent, earth and environment, and
Speaker 2: then within the family, intra family acts of kindness, so
Speaker 2: a few of my favorite ones. I was shocked to
Speaker 2: learn that in the community that we live in in
Speaker 2: northern Virginia, which seems quite economically comfortable, there's still a
Speaker 2: remarkably high percentage of kids in schools who face food insecurity.
Speaker 2: They may get free lunch school, but when they go home,
Speaker 2: those cabinets are empty. And it turns out that within
Speaker 2: our community, there is a program where you can drop
Speaker 2: off shelf stable foods at elementary schools and they will
Speaker 2: very sort of covertly, quietly so as not to embarrass
Speaker 2: the kids, put food into kids' backpacks that they can
Speaker 2: take home so that there is you know, there's an
Speaker 2: actual dinner on the table. And so one of the
Speaker 2: forty acts of kindness was I went and bought several
Speaker 2: hundred pounds of rice and several hundred pounds of dried beans,
Speaker 2: and like raid down the car it was kind of
Speaker 2: sagging in the back, but took them to one of
Speaker 2: the local elementary schools and dropped them off so that
Speaker 2: they would have their pantry full, so that all of
Speaker 2: these kids could go home and have meals, particularly over
Speaker 2: the weekends. That was so much fun. And I think
Speaker 2: that there's some value in really doing like physical acts yourself.
Speaker 2: I think you feel more involved in the process of helping.
Speaker 2: I also like to cut checks for things as well,
Speaker 2: but there was something about the very physical nature of
Speaker 2: that that I found inspiring.
Speaker 1: And then maybe you can talk about one that's a
Speaker 1: bit more person to person that you did something encouraging somebody.
Speaker 2: Yes, I actually I've received some books over the years
Speaker 2: from folks where they said I loved this and you
Speaker 2: may really value it, and I thought, I want to
Speaker 2: do that for someone too, So I decided to choose
Speaker 2: five books that I have found to be sort of
Speaker 2: life changing or transformative and to give them to friends
Speaker 2: with a little note saying why I thought that they
Speaker 2: may find it valuable. And in fact, one of those
Speaker 2: books was one hundred and sixty eight Hours that You
Speaker 2: Have More Time Than You Think, by a certain Laura Vandercamp.
Speaker 2: I have found it really inspirational. Back in my sort
Speaker 2: of earlier parenting lawyering journey, when I was just starting
Speaker 2: off with thinking about like how to make this better
Speaker 2: richer life, I actually gave it to I think two
Speaker 2: or three friends.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, I'm glad to hear that I did not
Speaker 1: ask Kathleen to say that. I'm very excited to do.
Speaker 1: That's wonderful. So if somebody else was going to undertake
Speaker 1: a project like this doing you know a large number
Speaker 1: of random acts of kindness, I wonder if there was
Speaker 1: something you learned along the way or some advice you'd
Speaker 1: give to them to make it a more effective project.
Speaker 2: I think setting out in advance the sort of general
Speaker 2: categories that you want these acts to be in, or
Speaker 2: general groups that you want to help can help structure
Speaker 2: the thinking and can help sort of spur on creativity.
Speaker 2: And then also just ask thoughtful people in your life.
Speaker 2: You know, hey, how do you think I could help
Speaker 2: with local animals or whatever it is your priority is.
Speaker 2: And sometimes you can actually get pretty insightful, thoughtful ideas
Speaker 2: from others, but you need to give them a prompt,
Speaker 2: not just what can I do that's nice? You have
Speaker 2: to say, I want to help the local poor, how
Speaker 2: can I do that? What do you think? So? Yeah,
Speaker 2: structure a little bit, and then just seek inspiration from
Speaker 2: others who your respect.
Speaker 1: Awesome We're going to take one more quick ad break
Speaker 1: and then we'll be back to learn about Kathleen's current
Speaker 1: time management challenges. Well, we are back. This is one
Speaker 1: of the longer Before Breakfast episodes. I am interviewing Kathleen Paley,
Speaker 1: who is a lawyer, mother, volunteer, podcaster, many different hats,
Speaker 1: and she talked about a project she did of doing
Speaker 1: forty acts of kindness before turning forty. So, Kathleen, I
Speaker 1: wonder if you could talk about sort of your biggest
Speaker 1: time management challenge right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my biggest time management challenge is that I am
Speaker 2: a sucker for adding projects to my life and I
Speaker 2: did recently start doing a podcast. So it's how to
Speaker 2: work work in more while not feeling harried. And one
Speaker 2: of the ways I've I've been able to do this
Speaker 2: is to just look for what are the low value
Speaker 2: pockets of time that I'm not It's not wasting, but
Speaker 2: maybe not using optimally. And you know, we started this
Speaker 2: episode talking about those Mondays and Fridays from home where
Speaker 2: there's a big chunk of time several hours in the morning.
Speaker 2: I've started to leverage that time to do more work.
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily the podcast work, but sort of shift
Speaker 2: more more things into those timeframes that I might otherwise do.
Speaker 2: At another point, I'm sort of using the tiles or
Speaker 2: the pieces of time, moving them around the way you've
Speaker 2: talked about so much in your work. So you know,
Speaker 2: by adding more, I've I've made myself be creative about
Speaker 2: looking at where the low value time is being spent
Speaker 2: and seeing where I can you know, eliminate eliminate that waste.
Speaker 2: And so you know, I'm using my Mondays and Fridays
Speaker 2: better and using little pockets of time on the weekends
Speaker 2: when I might have otherwise been kind of scrolling or
Speaker 2: just puttering around the house, carving out half an hour
Speaker 2: here an hour there to move the tiles around and
Speaker 2: be able to do the volunteer work and the podcast
Speaker 2: stuff and the mom's stuff and you know all those
Speaker 2: billable hours. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So what's one of your volunteer gigs right now? That
Speaker 1: is a project you've taken on but is adding meaning
Speaker 1: to your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So for the last oh, I think we're on
Speaker 2: year five now, I've found a commissioner on our city's
Speaker 2: Economic Development Authority, did a two year stint as the
Speaker 2: chair and then timed out under our bylaws, so I'm
Speaker 2: back to not charing meetings anymore. But we work on
Speaker 2: helping small businesses, both retail and you know, sort of
Speaker 2: more traditional accounting firms and such, but helping small businesses
Speaker 2: in the city thrive through a variety of programs and
Speaker 2: you know, support systems, and so doing that work is
Speaker 2: really exciting because over time you do start to see
Speaker 2: a change in your community. The five year mark, I'm
Speaker 2: now seeing projects that we started years ago really bear fruit.
Speaker 2: And it's incredibly exciting when you walk around your community
Speaker 2: and you say we had a role in that we
Speaker 2: helped with that this place is better because of something
Speaker 2: that we did. And so it's all you know, we
Speaker 2: have staff and we have a bunch of volunteers and
Speaker 2: they work together beautifully to make the place that we
Speaker 2: live more vibrant awesome.
Speaker 1: So, Kathleen, what is something you have done this week
Speaker 1: to take a day from great to awesome?
Speaker 2: Yes? So I have recently, so this week ish, I
Speaker 2: have rediscovered my love of the library. I had thought, oh,
Speaker 2: I like audiobooks, but somehow that childhood or young adulthood
Speaker 2: love of like reading the written word on a page
Speaker 2: had somehow faded. And I realized it wasn't that it faded,
Speaker 2: I just didn't have anything I wanted to read. And
Speaker 2: so recently I've been going to the library, so rediscovering
Speaker 2: the library, but then taking it up a notch in
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks by using my Tuesday, Wednesday
Speaker 2: Thursday commute time on the Metro to read a paper book.
Speaker 2: So now I'm getting an hour each day, three days
Speaker 2: a week reading a book in peace. You know, there's jump,
Speaker 2: you know, clutter going on around you, there's movement going
Speaker 2: on around you. But by just shifting that metro time
Speaker 2: and not doing like an audiobook, but actually reading on paper,
Speaker 2: I'm getting that great satisfaction of you know, reading something
Speaker 2: on paper and the turn of the page again, that
Speaker 2: physical act, the holding the book, There's something special about it.
Speaker 2: And so the great to awesome is getting back into
Speaker 2: reading and finding time to do it. That isn't taking
Speaker 2: away from anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and since you're leaving early enough on those days,
Speaker 1: you're probably getting a seat. I would imagine it's slightly
Speaker 1: harder to read if you're holding onto a pool, like
Speaker 1: flipping back and forth between the pages.
Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, yes, in the afternoon it is pretty crowded,
Speaker 2: and I'm flipping the pages while like wrapping an arm
Speaker 2: around the pole. But in the morning, it's it's a seat.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful to see.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. That's so funny. I have memories many, many
Speaker 1: years ago. I had a year long internship that I
Speaker 1: lived in the Greater Washington, DC area, and I had
Speaker 1: a fairly long commute and I wound up reading I'm
Speaker 1: going to say it around with Anna Karinina Tolstoi's novel
Speaker 1: on the Metro twenty minutes a day. You know, you
Speaker 1: get through it over the course of a month or two.
Speaker 1: It was a good read, you know, past the time.
Speaker 1: So I hope you're enjoying your reading in the morning
Speaker 1: as well. Do you have a particular life hack or
Speaker 1: strategy you want to share with our listeners. I always
Speaker 1: love to ask people if there's something really cool that
Speaker 1: you've been trying that's made life more efficient that you
Speaker 1: could share with us.
Speaker 2: Well, one thing we've been doing recently is whenever there's
Speaker 2: a situation where someone's going to give us a gift,
Speaker 2: like holidays, you know those are coming up, you know, anniversaries,
Speaker 2: things like that, we've been saying, can you just give
Speaker 2: us a gift card to a restaurant. It's because one,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to just spend less money eating out and
Speaker 2: be more efficient in that way. And two we want
Speaker 2: to do that. We're also big foodies, so I don't
Speaker 2: want clutter at home. I don't want physical stuff more
Speaker 2: physical stuff at home, but I do want to go
Speaker 2: explore new restaurants and try new foods. So just letting
Speaker 2: the folks in your life no like restaurant gift cards, please,
Speaker 2: that is a very welcome gift. Has been super in
Speaker 2: terms of now we get more experiences that we like
Speaker 2: and we don't have another vase sitting around that's just
Speaker 2: going to gather dust exactly.
Speaker 1: With a little extra tip for our listeners that you
Speaker 1: need to make sure you use the gift cards then,
Speaker 1: so when it comes in, make sure you've got a
Speaker 1: reservation and a date on the calendar, because otherwise those
Speaker 1: become clutter in a different way.
Speaker 2: They do, you know, Laura, Actually my kids have accumulated
Speaker 2: gift cards from birthday gifts over time, although I do
Speaker 2: swear the thirteen year old boys just circulate the same
Speaker 2: Amazon gift card back and forth, but they've accumulated a
Speaker 2: bunch of gift cards, and I took a page from
Speaker 2: your playbook and told my youngest we're having a gift
Speaker 2: card day. We're going to use up all of your
Speaker 2: gift cards. So we went to Dick's Sporting Goods, we
Speaker 2: went to a local bookstore. We didn't Amazon on order,
Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, that was actually a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. Like, yes, buddy, and now you have stuff
Speaker 2: you want and I don't have a drawer full of
Speaker 2: your gift cards.
Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly awesome. Well, Kathleen, this has been great. Can
Speaker 1: you tell our listeners where they can find you?
Speaker 2: Yes, I like I mentioned a couple of times. They
Speaker 2: now have a podcast. It's the Minimalish Mom podcast. If
Speaker 2: you have any interest in listening, it's on Apple Podcasts
Speaker 2: and Spotify. You can also reach out on Instagram It's
Speaker 2: minimalish Mom. I mean, the podcast name came from the
Speaker 2: fact that I've had that handle since like twenty fifteen
Speaker 2: or something, so it was just the easiest way to
Speaker 2: name things. But I would love to connect to folks
Speaker 2: who share an interest in, you know, using our time
Speaker 2: and resources better. I think it's a lot of fun,
Speaker 2: so please reach out.
Speaker 1: Well, we have a lot of people listening to this
Speaker 1: podcast who want to use their time and resources better.
Speaker 1: So Kathleen, thank you so much for joining us, and
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone who has been listening. I would love
Speaker 1: your feedback about this interview series, particularly if you decide
Speaker 1: to adopt Kathleen's project of doing random acts of kindness.
Speaker 1: I would love to hear about that. You can reach
Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com and in
Speaker 1: the meantime.
Speaker 2: This is Laura.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of
Speaker 1: our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've
Speaker 1: got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at
Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.