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Speaker 1: Hello, this is Annie and this is Bridget and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told to you. And we've

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Speaker 1: got another update for you, another update episode. Um, so

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Speaker 1: we're updating the episode that you, Bridget and Emily did

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Speaker 1: on me to the me Too movement. As we write this,

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein has turned himself into the police department. The

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Speaker 1: NYPD released a statement saying that Weinstein was arrested, processed,

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Speaker 1: and charged with rape, criminal sex act, sex abuse, and

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Speaker 1: sexual misconduct for incidents involving two separate women. He has played.

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Speaker 1: Not guilty, Yeah, right, not guilty, my ass. I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to say, like blah blah blah video groping somewhat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hope one would hope that would be enough, one

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Speaker 1: would hope. So. Um, since Me Too took off in April,

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Speaker 1: over two hundred and twenty powerful men have been accused

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Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct. By the time you hear this, it's

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Speaker 1: probably more than Oh, it's if we should have like

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Speaker 1: a ticking clock. McDonald's has you know, like a hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand served? Yeah, are there the dead clock, traded dead clock,

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Speaker 1: the creep clock? What's the creep clock? The creep clock

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Speaker 1: that should be what we have creep every minute, okay, um,

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Speaker 1: Vox and Glamour both have comprehensive list before this creep

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Speaker 1: clock comes to be. You can look there of those

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Speaker 1: accused and the ramifications to them, And that was one

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Speaker 1: of the things I'm really interested in. What happens after

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Speaker 1: um and a lot of times nothing but um and

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Speaker 1: a disheartened number of cases. There have been no ramifications

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Speaker 1: as of yet. However, this is changing, and it is

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Speaker 1: changing the attitudes of several organizations and industries and sparking

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Speaker 1: a lot of conversations. Take for instance, streaming services. A

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Speaker 1: while back, Spotify announced a new policy of not streaming quote,

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Speaker 1: hate music or the music of artists that engage in

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Speaker 1: hateful conduct. Pandora and Apple Music came out with similar

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Speaker 1: policies soon thereafter. Now, this was largely in response to

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Speaker 1: drop R kelly music from their playlists. Unless even living

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Speaker 1: under a rock you probably know R Kelly has been

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Speaker 1: accused of some very very very serious allegations, including keeping

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Speaker 1: underaged girls locked up in his house against their will

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Speaker 1: in a kind of sex cult. Now we should mention

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Speaker 1: that Spotify just recently backed off of this new policy,

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Speaker 1: but it does seem indicative of some sort of cultural

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Speaker 1: change around this conversation. Furthermore, if you look at Netflix

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Speaker 1: and Amazon Prime, we've got Kevin Spacey. Spacey is currently

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Speaker 1: under investigation in Massachusetts and seeking some sort of unspecified treatment.

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Speaker 1: He was fired from the show House of Cards and

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Speaker 1: replaced and really, Scott's be all the money in the world.

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Speaker 1: You've also got um. The allegations against Jeffrey Tambor have

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Speaker 1: him leaving Amazon's Transparent, and it's sort of changed the

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Speaker 1: conversation around Netflix's new season of Arrested Development, especially after

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Speaker 1: several male cast members of the show dismissed Jessica Walters,

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Speaker 1: recounting of the time he shouted at her on set

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Speaker 1: in a way she'd never been yelled at before. That

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Speaker 1: pissed me off so much. I was so angry about that.

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Speaker 1: Jessica Walter is a national treasure. Also, Jason Bateman, if

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Speaker 1: you read that interview, and he's apologized for it now,

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Speaker 1: But if you read that interview, there are so many

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Speaker 1: disgusting things to choose from. But the thing that pissed

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Speaker 1: me off the most, if you saw me on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: I was really ranting about this one, is that he

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Speaker 1: glosses over the behavior by saying over like a family,

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Speaker 1: Like how often is family used to gloss over like

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Speaker 1: really really toxic stuff, Like the fact that he said

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Speaker 1: we're like a family, It just seems like gas lighting that, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're a family there, or the thing that you experienced

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Speaker 1: as abuse wasn't really abuse, It was just help family

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Speaker 1: treat each other. I thought that was disgusting. Two, the

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is he's explaining to Jessica Walter

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Speaker 1: how dynamics on set work before he was even born.

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Speaker 1: Jessica Walter had a golden globe. So I don't want

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Speaker 1: to hear it, Like, how dare he explained to Jessica

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Speaker 1: Walter how on set dynamics work in acting? Who does

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Speaker 1: he think he is? Yeah? That made me. I was

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Speaker 1: so angry. He apologized and whatever. David Cross also apologized,

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Speaker 1: but in true David Cross fashion, his apology it was

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Speaker 1: this weird and it just made me feel exhausted on

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Speaker 1: behalf of his wife, Amber Tamblin. Before Amber Tamplin, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know they were very Oh they're married, and

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Speaker 1: it's the whole thing. Okay, Okay, we'll talk about that later. Um,

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Speaker 1: if we look at classical music. James the Vine of

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Speaker 1: the Metropolitan Opera was the spend in December after three

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Speaker 1: men came forward with sexual assault allegations. Um. They say

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Speaker 1: that it was when they were teenagers. Um. And when

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Speaker 1: it comes to opera, an art form largely written and

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Speaker 1: composed by white men over the centuries, there's this whole

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Speaker 1: conversation happening about how can we make it more inclusive?

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Speaker 1: And an Italian production of Carmen recently changed the ending

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Speaker 1: so that instead of being killed by her abuser, Carmen

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Speaker 1: kills him. Good. Yeah, you should see the look on

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Speaker 1: Bridget's face. I'm a little scared to be in here

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Speaker 1: with her right now. Well you got me all angry

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Speaker 1: with that Jason Bateman thing, and then now now I'm

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Speaker 1: now you're here and you're ready for a fight. I

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Speaker 1: can see it. If you look at news and TV

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Speaker 1: and politics, there are so many creeps out there. Here's

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Speaker 1: an abbreviated list. Mario Batali stepped down from his company

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Speaker 1: and TV show indefinitely. Morgan Freeman was accused by eight

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Speaker 1: women of harassment and sexual misconduct. Freeman denies these accusations,

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Speaker 1: and so far Visa has dropped him as the voice

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Speaker 1: for their commercials. And there's also some chatter about after

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Speaker 1: a provoking his Lifetime Achievement award. Yes, Um, and things

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Speaker 1: happened very very quickly. Um, as we were recording this,

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Speaker 1: we looked into things that have have changed. So maybe

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Speaker 1: when you're hearing it there's been some developments, but as

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Speaker 1: of now, this is the lay of the land. Um.

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Speaker 1: You've also got John Lasseter, chief creative officer at Pixar

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Speaker 1: and Want Disney Animation, who is taking a six month

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Speaker 1: leave after accusations surfaced in November of quote grabbing, kissing,

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Speaker 1: and making comments about physical attributes. UM. Charlie Rose after

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Speaker 1: accusations of sexual harassment surfaced from eight Women's CBS fired

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Speaker 1: him and PBS dropped his show. He's been trying to

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Speaker 1: get his show going about what happens to sexual harassers

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Speaker 1: after being accused? Can you think of anything more absurd?

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Speaker 1: It's difficult. It's difficult. Him and his guest will probably

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Speaker 1: sit around and open robes. Bridget, I really didn't need

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Speaker 1: a picture that I'm just saying I saw on Twitter

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Speaker 1: someone was like, because that was his his biz. One

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Speaker 1: of his things was was like inviting co workers over

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Speaker 1: to his house. Under the guise of like all work

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Speaker 1: trip and then being like an open robe, which is

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Speaker 1: such a Oh, it's just so, it's just it's so horrible.

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Speaker 1: It's almost a cliche. You know. I did see on

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Speaker 1: Twitter someone said Charlie robes more like and I thought, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: good one. Um. Steve Wynn resigned from the Republican National

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Speaker 1: Committee after several allegation service describing a decade long pattern

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Speaker 1: of this sort of sexual harassment behavior. He blamed it

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Speaker 1: on the quote continued work of my ex wife, Elaine

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Speaker 1: win with who I am involved in a terrible, nasty

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Speaker 1: lawsuit which she is seeking a revised divorce settlement. See,

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Speaker 1: I had a feeling that there was a woman responsible

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Speaker 1: for the behavior. Usually what a man does something that's

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Speaker 1: totally inappropriate, it's usually never hit fault, and there's usually

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Speaker 1: some woman somewhere that's done something. Loo looked at him

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Speaker 1: the wrong way, and that's why he did it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it makes sense, it does the way to go, Steve,

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Speaker 1: he really cracked cracked the case one. I'm so exhausted

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Speaker 1: and disgusted by each and every one of these men.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm having trouble holding back my disdain yes, um.

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Speaker 1: And also, if we look at religion, um, the me

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Speaker 1: Too movement is impacting religious communities and organizations. At the

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Speaker 1: end of this may, which is in case someone is

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Speaker 1: listening to it in a different year. Paige Patterson, the

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Speaker 1: president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, stepped down in

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Speaker 1: response to a letter denouncing him signed by thousands of women.

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Speaker 1: Their primary grievance had to do with the advice he

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Speaker 1: handed out to women who had been raped or beaten,

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Speaker 1: and specifically the advice that he gave to one woman

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Speaker 1: who is being abused by her husband, pray for him,

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Speaker 1: don't go to the authorities. Um. Note though, that while

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Speaker 1: Patterson was asked to step down, he still carries the

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Speaker 1: title President emeritus, still lives on campus, and still gets

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Speaker 1: a paycheck. Wow. Yeah. Also, returning to the world of politics,

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Speaker 1: we should also men. Eric Schneiderman, who was a pretty

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Speaker 1: vocal supporter of me too Now for women, accused the

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Speaker 1: New York Attorney General a physical and sexual abuse. The

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Speaker 1: things he was accused of are horrifying, slapping women during

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Speaker 1: sex unconsensually. You know, it was really really nasty stuff.

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Speaker 1: One of his ex lovers said that he used to

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Speaker 1: slap her around non consensually, and that in bed he

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Speaker 1: would say things to her like you're my brown slave. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And he was also I believe he made threats to

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Speaker 1: women's He did, and he clearly was abusing his power.

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Speaker 1: He would say things to women who he wanted to control.

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Speaker 1: He would say things like I am the law. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's terrifying. It is um and this movement is not

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Speaker 1: limited to the United States either. There are plenty of

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Speaker 1: examples of me too in other countries and international listeners.

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Speaker 1: Please write in. Please write in if we don't mention you,

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Speaker 1: or if we do and you've got more details, we'd

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Speaker 1: love to hear from you. But for sample. In Russia,

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Speaker 1: the me too movement has been framed as a witch hunt,

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Speaker 1: a concerted effort by l g B, t q I

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Speaker 1: folks and feminist to gain power. The conversation might have

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Speaker 1: started to change in February when three female journalists accused

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Speaker 1: the head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of Russia's lower parliament,

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Speaker 1: the Douma, of sexual harassment. A review by the Ethics

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Speaker 1: committee came back with no evidence. Over twelve news organizations

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Speaker 1: pulled their journalists from the DUMA in response UM in

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Speaker 1: a case of you can fire me, I quit, the

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Speaker 1: DOOMA stripped those organizations of their accreditation. In Mexico, NPR

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Speaker 1: reported that women in Mexico's entertainment industry began coming forward

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Speaker 1: in larger numbers in March, but most of the women

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Speaker 1: that came forward experienced severe backlash. Another hashtag band trending

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Speaker 1: yo no denuncio porque or I don't report because according

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Speaker 1: to a recent survey, almost fifty of Mexican women had

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Speaker 1: experienced harassment. In Italy, the me too movement has faced

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Speaker 1: back lash as well. One of the first people to

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Speaker 1: accuse Harvey Weinstein, Asia Argento, has had her motives questioned

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Speaker 1: in her own country. Argenta said she left Italy largely

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Speaker 1: because she was being slut shamed and the atmosphere um

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Speaker 1: after Italian director lost his relationship with Warner Brothers in

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Speaker 1: response to accusations from ten women of molestation. This spawned

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Speaker 1: a lot of media coverage in support of the director.

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Speaker 1: In Japan, in early May, women protested with signs reading

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Speaker 1: hashtag me too and hashtag with you in response to

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Speaker 1: remarks from the country's finance minister that dismissed the charges

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Speaker 1: of sexual harassment against his previous deputy. He said, no

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Speaker 1: such thing as a sexual harassment charge, which is untrue.

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Speaker 1: I mean clearly yes from what I read. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a Japanese law scholar, but from what I

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Speaker 1: read from people that are, that is a false statement

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Speaker 1: that he has made. Um. So that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: state of things. This is always changing and spreading and

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Speaker 1: um really powerful, really powerful movement. Um. So let's let's

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Speaker 1: take a look back at how how that movement upstarted.

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Speaker 1: Now for today's episode, we have to have a trigger warning.

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Speaker 1: It is about issues dealing with sexual assault sexual harassment.

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Speaker 1: So if that's something that is tough for you, just

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Speaker 1: know that that is what today's episode is about. Today

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the viral campaign me Too.

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Speaker 1: If you have Facebook or social media, you've probably seen

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Speaker 1: people in your life posting me too. This viral campaign

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Speaker 1: actually came as a response to Harvey Weinstein, who is

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Speaker 1: this very very powerful Hollywood producer and filmmaker. These bombshell,

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Speaker 1: bombshell bombshell allegations that came out that he has been

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Speaker 1: sexually harassing and sexually assaulting women in Hollywood for many

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Speaker 1: many years, and that a culture of silence, a culture

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Speaker 1: of looking the other way, a culture of fear, a

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Speaker 1: culture of intimidation, really allowed for a sexual abuser to

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Speaker 1: fester in this industry. And it took a lot of

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Speaker 1: women standing up to have anything be done about it

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Speaker 1: and even have a national conversation about it. Despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that it seems like it's been an open secret

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood for quite a while. It really does seem

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Speaker 1: like a watershed moment in this conversation. I feel like

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Speaker 1: the access Hollywood bus conversation by our commander in Chief

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Speaker 1: was the match that lit a lot of this fire

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Speaker 1: across the United States, in particular around the everyday, commonplace

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Speaker 1: rape culture that we live in. And now this sort

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Speaker 1: of movement, this energy, this frustration is totally righteous anger

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Speaker 1: is manifesting in this interestingly targeted way. So I look

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Speaker 1: back at that tape and I think, how wo did

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Speaker 1: this guy become our president? I don't know. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was the end. Oh my god, I was so

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Speaker 1: naive to think people cared. But I do think you're right.

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Speaker 1: I think the fact I think for a lot of women, fems,

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Speaker 1: gender nonconforming folks, many of us have gone through sexual thought,

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Speaker 1: sexual harassment. You look at the numbers, it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: common thing. And so I think you're right, and that

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Speaker 1: going through the process of watching that tape, having Trump

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Speaker 1: become president, that kind of lit this anger that had

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Speaker 1: been bubbling under the surface for so long where all

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Speaker 1: of us are like no more, yeah, no more, Like

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Speaker 1: no more sexual predators achieving success in this economy. There

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Speaker 1: is no way that I think. This is where I

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Speaker 1: always go back to, like capitalism can be good, and

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Speaker 1: I really want to see people who are predators, who

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Speaker 1: are criminal in their use of power, coercion, sexual assault, rape,

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Speaker 1: that they are not allowed to succeed. That should be

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Speaker 1: a deal breaker in terms of getting a job, getting

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Speaker 1: a promotion, running companies being successful, Like let's make that

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Speaker 1: not possible anymore. And even beyond that, for me, it's

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Speaker 1: not just make sure they're not successful. We shouldn't get

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Speaker 1: them on a stage and applaud them, Like that's what

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Speaker 1: bugs me so much about things like that. You're Woody

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Speaker 1: Allen's of the world. Not only do I want to

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Speaker 1: see them have massive, massive failures on a on a

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Speaker 1: grand public sale, when I see them get trotted up

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Speaker 1: on an oscar stage and like a standing ovation. That's

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Speaker 1: the thing. They shouldn't be shamed and voted off the island.

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Speaker 1: What are we doing that we allow these abusers to

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Speaker 1: not just get financial and professional success, but then we

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Speaker 1: uplift them like, oh, they're so great? What are we doing?

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Speaker 1: I just think it's a weird distinction that people can

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Speaker 1: somehow and it kind of like problematic faiths and that

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Speaker 1: you can hold someone's body of work separate from the

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Speaker 1: way that they conduct themselves personally. But a we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be able to look the other way when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about serial predators who commit assault, sexual assault, any assault,

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Speaker 1: really and be now we're talking about sexual assault at work,

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Speaker 1: So now this isn't just some dark secret sweep under

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Speaker 1: the rug. We're talking about people who are a threat

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Speaker 1: to women in their offices, who are a threat to

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Speaker 1: women and men in many cases by using their professional

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Speaker 1: power as a vehicle for control in a sexual domain. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things I think is world of

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Speaker 1: glossed over in the Harvey Weinstein situation is that because

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Speaker 1: we're talking about famous A list actresses, it can seem

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Speaker 1: like this is this like this Hollywood thing. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, These are women in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: and that even though they're famous, they're on TV, they're

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Speaker 1: a lists or magazines, it is a sexual assault and

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Speaker 1: harassment in the workplace situation. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: can get lost when you're talking about like glittery A listers,

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Speaker 1: and we sometimes overestimate the power of glittery A listers

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Speaker 1: as compared to the behind the scenes people who make

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Speaker 1: decisions about what rules they're going to get. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you look at these beautiful, successful, flashy A listers and

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Speaker 1: you think they're so powerful, How could this happen to them?

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Speaker 1: Like surely people like when of Paltrow was wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: happening to her. But you think about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to acting, these people were a lot

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Speaker 1: of times just sort of getting their start and just

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Speaker 1: kind of working up the ranks of Hollywood, and so

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Speaker 1: they actually maybe didn't have that much power. Also, it

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Speaker 1: just goes to remind you that it doesn't matter how

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Speaker 1: successful you are, you're still just a piece of ask

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Speaker 1: to somebody. And the most recent everyday assault that I experienced,

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Speaker 1: which I don't even want to go into details because

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Speaker 1: I'm not into the me too kind of assault, sharing

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Speaker 1: culture so much. We're going to talk about more, But

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Speaker 1: it was just like an everyday stranger assaulting me, basically

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Speaker 1: groping me in public, reminded me that, like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: a boss, like I am, I own my own company.

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Speaker 1: I feel on top of the world right now, I'm

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Speaker 1: like having a great day. I'm going through the world

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Speaker 1: minding my own business, and I am still dehumanized by

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Speaker 1: someone else. It does not matter how successful you are.

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Speaker 1: That is what assault reminds you of, is that you

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Speaker 1: are nothing. It makes you feel like it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: how much brilliance or gusto or power you feel like

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Speaker 1: you have, You're still just a piece of ast somebody.

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Speaker 1: And I'm horrified that that happened. But the framing that

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Speaker 1: you just gave, I think is so important because I

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Speaker 1: think as women, we are taught that it's good to

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Speaker 1: be a strong, badass woman. You know, no one's gonna

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Speaker 1: mess with me, blah blah blah. But we are still susceptible, right.

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Speaker 1: People look at women who project as very strong, as

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Speaker 1: very assertive, the kind of woman who would you know,

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Speaker 1: punch you if you did something wrong, and those women

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Speaker 1: are still being assaulted. So it really doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: kind of woman you are, what kind of person you are.

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Speaker 1: Sexual harassment and sexual thought happens to all of us,

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Speaker 1: and it happens in so many industries beyond the entertainment

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Speaker 1: industry too, although the entertainment industry is uniquely poised for

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing because beauty and sexuality and sensuality

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Speaker 1: are such a form of currency for actors really, given

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Speaker 1: the nature of their work. But you've seen this firsthand

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Speaker 1: in the world of progressive politics. I have seen this firsthand.

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Speaker 1: Um And so again, the thing that really throws me

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Speaker 1: about the situation that I experienced firsthand is that you

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Speaker 1: would think that progressive politics, you know, these are male feminists,

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Speaker 1: these are lefties, these are people that you can really trust.

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Speaker 1: That is definitely how I entered the world of progressive

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Speaker 1: politics thinking. And I quickly realized that that is not

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Speaker 1: the case. And so a few years ago I had

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Speaker 1: this job at a consulting firm called It's Given Media

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Speaker 1: here in d C. We also had offices in California

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Speaker 1: and New York. We were this bustling progressive firm. We

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Speaker 1: worked with folks like um Ultra Violet Um. We worked

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Speaker 1: with folks like Move on. Basically, it was a who's

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Speaker 1: who of power players on the progressive left right, so

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Speaker 1: big lefty organizations, and our firm's founder, Trevork Fitzgibbon, ended

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Speaker 1: up shuttering the firm under many, many, many allegations of

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Speaker 1: systematic sexual harassment and assault by both co workers and science.

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Speaker 1: And so how this played out for us is that

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Speaker 1: we went to a retreat in Austin, Texas. We were

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Speaker 1: our remote office, so we had people who worked from

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Speaker 1: home or from different cities. But this is one of

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Speaker 1: the first times we were all together physically in one

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Speaker 1: in one room, and people started sharing stories and so

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Speaker 1: one person would be like, oh, well I got this

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Speaker 1: text or oh this happened to me, and before you

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Speaker 1: know it, everyone has a story. And so it really

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Speaker 1: was one of those things that snowballed where we all

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Speaker 1: came in thinking, oh, this was a one off thing

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Speaker 1: or this weird thing happened with me, and then realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: my god, this is a systematic thing. It's happening to

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Speaker 1: multiple people, and really what you're talking about is unwanted

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Speaker 1: sexual advances from Fitzgibbon, the founding partner, and the people

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Speaker 1: comparing notes and sharing stories were all the women in

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Speaker 1: the office. Okay, so this is like, oh, maybe he

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Speaker 1: just invited me to his hotel late at night because

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Speaker 1: he was like having a weird night, and maybe, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was just me something you can look past.

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Speaker 1: And then you start to com hair notes and realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing like these advances, these unwanted assaults

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Speaker 1: in some cases, um, and granted these are accusations as

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Speaker 1: they currently stand, right, but your office, like you've said

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Speaker 1: in the past, gossip became a very powerful tool for

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Speaker 1: understanding that you were not alone and experiencing this kind

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Speaker 1: of weirdness from your boss. Yeah. And I think what

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Speaker 1: is so fascinating to me about the situation is the

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Speaker 1: way that none of us in that office were famous, right,

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Speaker 1: Like none of us were Hollywood A listeners. But the

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Speaker 1: way that the Weinstein case really mirrored what happened with

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Speaker 1: my progressive firm, and so things like it just being

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Speaker 1: an invite that you're like, oh, well, that was unusual.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: women who made accusations against Harvey Weinstein pointed out is

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Speaker 1: that it often started with meeting for drinks or an

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Speaker 1: invitation to go to a film screening one on one

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and Charter, if it's given, definitely

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Speaker 1: did that same kind of thing, where it's an invitation

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Speaker 1: for something that seems intimate, that gives you pause but

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily strike you as this person is trying to

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Speaker 1: sexually assault me, right right, Well, in Weinstein's case, they

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Speaker 1: would show up and he would be like in a

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Speaker 1: bathroom in a hotel room, so it eventually would get

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Speaker 1: to that thing. So like Lupita and Nyango, actually, right

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Speaker 1: when Weinsteine first came into her orbit, she was still

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Speaker 1: a student, and it often, you know, early on was

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Speaker 1: dinner's invitations to see movies and how he did these

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Speaker 1: specific things to make her feel like it was safe.

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Speaker 1: So it would be like, oh, come to this movie screening,

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Speaker 1: you can bring a friend if you want, or an

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Speaker 1: invitation to dinner, and when they get to dinner, there's

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Speaker 1: a female assistant there, but then the assistant leaves, and

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Speaker 1: so it's done in a way where you know it

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Speaker 1: seems off, but it's not necessarily at least to start

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Speaker 1: with over enough to be like this is bad, Okay,

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Speaker 1: they just want to hate because a I think that

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Speaker 1: one on one meetings are critical for everyone's career success

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Speaker 1: plan and simple B. I've been on many of these

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Speaker 1: kind of hangouts with your mentor and then you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh God, is he going to hit on me. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever has a one on one where you've where

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Speaker 1: you bring your resume and it's a date. Yeah. I

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00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: remember distinctly knowing that I was in trouble when this guy,

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Speaker 1: who was a senior consultant on a campaign and I

409
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Speaker 1: was like the young intern on the campaign, took me

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Speaker 1: out to dinner. I thought we were going to talk

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Speaker 1: about work and career stuff, and he made a point

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Speaker 1: of showing me that it was a four bottle of

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Speaker 1: wine that he just ordered for us to to have,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm in trouble. I'm officially in trouble.

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Speaker 1: This man now feels entitled to something in return for

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Speaker 1: his return on that investment. And I knew it then,

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Speaker 1: and I predicted the oncoming assault that would follow in

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Speaker 1: his car, you know, like, I don't want to tell

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Speaker 1: people you can't have these meetings, right, that's pensive strategy, right,

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Speaker 1: like no closed door meetings without mother there. Mother, Like

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Speaker 1: we can't not be able to have these meetings. And

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Speaker 1: yet this is the tactic that people who are trying

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Speaker 1: to assault others use and rely on our trust of

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Speaker 1: people to not be evil. That's exactly what the case

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Speaker 1: was in my situation working It's given, and also with

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Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein, and so the ways in which predators use

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Speaker 1: these things that we all understand as parts of having

428
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: a job, you know, one on one meetings, getting drinks,

429
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: things like that, using those things to prey on people

430
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: who are vulnerable and that you're in a position of

431
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: power over. One of the things I found so fascinating

432
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: about when a Paltrow story and that really really mirrored

433
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 1: my own, is that when Harvey Weinstein made an advance

434
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: on her, she talks about how stunned she was. She says,

435
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: I thought you were my uncle, Harvey, she recalled thinking,

436
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: explaining that she had seen him as a mentor. And

437
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: for me, what struck me from that anecdote is this

438
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: idea that predators they work by making you feel special

439
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: or seen or chosen right, like when my boss suggested

440
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: that we meet it a hotel room for a drink,

441
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: part of me was like, I should just be happy

442
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: that he sees me and that he you know, I

443
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: thought he wanted to do that because he thought I

444
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: was successful or talented or whatever, like it's a way

445
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: of making you feel special and chosen, and that that

446
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: can be used later on to get you to do

447
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: something you don't want to do. And did you ever

448
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: meet up with him? Uh? Well, funny story. So how

449
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: not funny? But I feel like you told me the

450
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: story for it. So what went down in our case

451
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: was that anyone who knew me at the time before

452
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: I got hired at It's Given, knew that I needed

453
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: a job, right, Like I was a girl who was

454
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: a miserable at her job, and like I was telling everybody,

455
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 1: get me out of here, I'm so miserable. So he

456
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: sent me a couple of Facebook dms, was like, Hey,

457
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: I'm in New York. Do you want to come get

458
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: a drink in my hotel? That kind of thing. And

459
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: at the time I was like, well drinking a hotel,

460
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: this is a little bit off, But then again, it's

461
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: progressive politics. We're pretty we can be pretty casual. So

462
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 1: I ended up declining, but only because I lived in

463
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Brooklyn and he was in Manhattan, and I was like,

464
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: whym not, I'm not getting breaker for you. I'm not

465
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: making a complicated subway trance for yourself. I was like, no, thanks.

466
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: So then later when I ended up getting my job

467
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: at It's Given around Thanksgiving, I lived in Richmond and

468
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: he actually lived in Richmond too, and so he invited me.

469
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, we should get a drink while

470
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: we're both enriched it and I was like, cool, yeah,

471
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: I have showing up with my boyfriend and my brother

472
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: and so I'm sure he was like, well florid, Yeah,

473
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: I mean I happened to be. I mean, this was

474
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: all of this happenstance. I certainly, looking back, I wish

475
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: I had the foresight too, but at the time didn't

476
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: like rage quit that drink too. Yeah, he basically was like,

477
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: well by, yeah, I'll pay for the next round by.

478
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean part of me, looking back, it

479
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: seems so obvious, But I think that is what this

480
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: is about, right, Like when you're when it's happening, you

481
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: tell yourself, oh, like this is fine, or maybe this

482
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: is a little unusual, but maybe he's just idiosyncratic. Right,

483
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: You've got, I mean, the benefit of the doubt. I'm

484
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: not opposed to it, you know what I mean, because

485
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: I have benefited greatly from male mentors in my life.

486
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: And I always tell women, if we are only mentoring

487
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: other women, or if women are only being mentored by

488
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: other women, we're going to perpetuate gender wage gaps and

489
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: jen er based discrimination. That's not good for us. Right,

490
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: Diversity and mentoring people who don't exactly resemble your entire

491
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: life's experience is important, and so people like Harvey Weinstein

492
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: and Trevor fitzgiven give these decent men such a bad name.

493
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: And I hope it doesn't prevent us from meeting up

494
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: for drinks with people who are powerful and can actually

495
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: have influence over our careers. But it's a shame because

496
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: there are predators out there too. It's like, what the

497
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: hell are you supposed to do? So it's almost like

498
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: a double edged sword where you don't want to feel

499
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: like you're going to miss out on some sort of

500
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: career opportunity that you should be able to have access to,

501
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: but because you're a woman, you feel this extra added

502
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: layer of concern about it because men are creepy, And

503
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: that's why we need all the non creepy men out

504
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: there and women to actually call this stuff out right,

505
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: because it's the silence it's the culture of complicity that

506
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: keeps predators like fits Given and Weinstein rising to the

507
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: top like it allows them to remain powerful and influential

508
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: in a world that they should not be able to be. So, really,

509
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: a notable thing I think that you see in situations

510
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: both with things like Bill Cosby and with Weinstein is

511
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: that you have this culture where a team of assistants

512
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: and drivers and handlers and pr people all know the

513
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: drill and they all function to allow this predator to operate.

514
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: And so it's assistance showing up for drinks and then

515
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: knowing that they're supposed to leave after a certain amount

516
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: of time leaves you know, a woman alone with him,

517
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: or it's drivers who are looking the other way while

518
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: there's a woman drugged in his back seat while he's

519
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: driving her home. It's things like this. It's a culture

520
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: where everyone knows their role and it's a machine that

521
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: allows this predator to continue doing what they do without

522
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: really facing a lot of consequences. And the other component

523
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: that's common amongst so many of these stories is these

524
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: powerful influential people have not only this whole team of

525
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: folks who are complicit in looking the other way, but

526
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: they also use retaliation as a powerful follow up to

527
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: their assaults. So whether it's you know, threatening to blacklist

528
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: celebrities like Weinstein did, or if it's planting things in

529
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: the sort of industry gossip papers about those who dare

530
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: to speak out, victims are made well aware that the

531
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: risks of speaking out and reporting someone who's as beloved

532
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: and famous as some of these criminals are can come

533
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: with huge risks, and I think that's what keeps so

534
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: many women silent, including the women if it's given right,

535
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: like definitely, I mean, certainly, worrying about retaliation was a

536
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: big part of what happened that it's given. Something I

537
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: found very interesting about the Weinstein case is that in

538
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: Lupita's piece of Many York Times, she wrote that after

539
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: she rebuffed his advances time and time and time again,

540
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: that there was one incident at a dinner where he said,

541
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: let's cut to the chase. I think we should finish

542
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: our meal upstairs, and she was like no, and that

543
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: after she left, she was like, I felt like I

544
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: needed to make sure that everything was good. So I said, Harvey,

545
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: are we good? And he said, I don't know about

546
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: your career, but you'll be fine, and that she didn't

547
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: know if that was a threat or not. And I

548
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: don't I don't know about your career, but you'll be fine,

549
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: and how I mean? And she this happened when she

550
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: was still a drama student at Yale, so she wasn't

551
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: even surprised me at all. But like, how non elegant

552
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: a threat? You know what I mean? Like would an

553
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: inelegant threat? Like how obvious are you going to be

554
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: about this kind of thing? That that kind of coercion

555
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: is not even something you're ashamed to be that explicit about. Well,

556
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: according to this New Yorker piece by Rodan Pharaoh, which

557
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: if you have not read, is like a bombshell must

558
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: read piece, Harvey Weinstein actually had a thing about bragging

559
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: about getting dirt put in gossip magazines and dissuading of

560
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: studios from using certain actresses. Like he talked about how

561
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: he had this power over Hollywood to make things happen

562
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: for people or not make things happen for people. And

563
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: so I think the reason why he was so inelegant

564
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: it is because he's not ashamed of it. I'm like

565
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: being triggered right now because this feels so much like

566
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: politics it is, And I think, so what campaign life

567
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: is like. And I think what you said is so

568
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: important because it's important to even though, just like you

569
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: were saying earlier, in Hollywood, sex appeal and all of

570
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: that can be a kind of currency. It's not just Hollywood.

571
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: It's in so many industries. It's politics, it's medicine, it's law.

572
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: It's kind of valid. Yeah, if you if you listen

573
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: to our Silicon Valley episode, women being afraid to speak

574
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: up because of retaliation was a hallmark of the abuse

575
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: and harassment that those women faced. Yeah, And I feel

576
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: like this is causing me to like just go back

577
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: in my brain and go back in time, like just

578
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: thinking about all the men who I've come across who

579
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: have used their power and influence to get what they

580
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: want sexually, to get what they want out of the

581
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: people that they work with, and who have been so

582
00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: unafraid to use that power and influence in a retaliatory manner.

583
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: It's just it really is like blows your mind how

584
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 1: every day and how relatable it is. And I think

585
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: that's why the whole me to campaign were so compelling,

586
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: because it made you do that, it made you go

587
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: back through every job, you've ever had, every off incident

588
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: you've ever had, every assault you've ever experienced, and be like,

589
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: this is the experience of being a woman in this country.

590
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk a lot more about the me

591
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: to campaign and how it got started after this quick

592
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: break and we're back. We were just getting very very

593
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: angry thinking about some of the really inappropriate things that

594
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us have dealt with and

595
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: sort of why it's now kind of a watershed moment

596
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: under the me to campaign. If it seemed like everybody

597
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: on your social media feed was saying me too, that's

598
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: probably because they were, uh. And that's probably because sexual

599
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: harassment in the workplace is so common. One in three

600
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: women report being harassed in the workplace, and one of

601
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: four say they witnessed a coworker being hers. And this

602
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: is data from a twenties seventeen pole that you GOV

603
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: did where they surveyed almost five thousand people. And I

604
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: think that these numbers really show this is an issue

605
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: that most of us are dealing with. Right It's very

606
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: very common. Either you've dealt with that, someone you know

607
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 1: has doubt what that, your friend, your family, whoever. I

608
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: think it's just this groundswell of voices being like nope,

609
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: like if you're if you didn't know this was happening,

610
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: where have you been? And I think I've heard from

611
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: the men in my life that that was even more

612
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: opening for them to see all of this me too.

613
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: For me, it was like obviously, obviously me too. I

614
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: think when Alissa Milano after the one Steam story broke,

615
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: she called on people on Twitter to use that hashtag

616
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: me too if they had experienced assault or harassment in

617
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: the workplace, and according to Intercept, the hashtag me too

618
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: has been tweeted well over a million times in eighty

619
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: five different countries. Basically, Milano was saying, maybe if people

620
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: knew how common this experience was, we'd care a little

621
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: bit more about it. And that was certainly the experience

622
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: that I felt. But I also saw when everyone was

623
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: using the hashtag, I had this really weird mix of

624
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: emotions I was experiencing sort of like obviously, duh, Like

625
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: if you aren't aware that this is a widespread issue,

626
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: where have you been? But also exhaustion at the need

627
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: for us to again be sort of trotting out our

628
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: war stories or wounds, to be like, look, tell me

629
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: I'm valid, tell me this is a valid issue, and

630
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I felt very conflicted over

631
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: the popularity of the hashtag, which by the way, was

632
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: initially a movement started by a black activist to Rona Burke,

633
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: who back in two thousand six on my Space actually

634
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: started this me too campaign as a grassroots movement to

635
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: aid sexual assault survivors in underprivileged communities where, quote, according

636
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: to Ebony, rape christ centers and sexual assault workers weren't

637
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: even going. So one thing to note that when she

638
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: started this campaign, she wasn't thinking that it would be

639
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: a viral campaign or a hashtag that was short lived.

640
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: Here today, gone tomorrow. But she says that she's really

641
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: really happy to see what's happening now. She says, what's

642
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: happening now is powerful, and I salute it and the

643
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: women who have disclosed. But the power of using me

644
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: too has always been and the fact that it can

645
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: be a conversation starter or a whole conversation. But it

646
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: was us talking to us, and so she really started

647
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: this as a black woman talking to other underprivileged communities.

648
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: But then she writes on her website that she felt

649
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: the need to take this conversation further. And so while

650
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: she started it for underprivileged communities of color because that's

651
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: who she worked with, she realized just how prevalent this

652
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: was and wanted to take that conversation on a more

653
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: broader level. I wonder if we're losing something in mainstreaming it,

654
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I wonder if we also

655
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: need to bring a more specific lens to the conversation

656
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 1: around women of color. And you know, we know that

657
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: certain women get assaulted a lot more than other women totally,

658
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, we talked about this in

659
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: our episode for HBC. U s uh, black women are

660
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: much less likely to report sexual assault and sex crimes. Um.

661
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: I think the conversation is great, but I'm mindful of

662
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: who it leaves out right, So I think right now

663
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: the conversation seems to be very focused on like white

664
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: powerful a list women. Actually, it was Jane Fonda who

665
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: made this point in MSNBC that so she says it's

666
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: too bad that it's probably because so many of the

667
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: women that were assaulted by Harvey Weinstein are famous and

668
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: white and everybody knows them. This has been going on

669
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: for a long time to black women and other women

670
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: of color, and it doesn't get out quite the same.

671
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: And so I think that she's right in that it

672
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: is an issue for other communities, but that perhaps the

673
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: main streaming of the me too campaign kind of leave

674
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: some of those communities out. I also think that we

675
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: don't we're not talking about gender nonconforming folks trans women

676
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: get you know, as we know, trans folks are much

677
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: more likely to be assaulted than the general public. Um

678
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: I was so proud to see Sarah McBride, who is

679
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: the National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign and

680
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: was actually the first trans person to speak at the

681
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: Democratic National Convention. So shout out to Sarah. Um So.

682
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: She wrote a whole piece for Buzzbeat about how when

683
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: you're trans, sexual assault and sexual harassment has this added

684
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: layer because we are told as a society that transpolkes

685
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: are gross disgusting and that no one could ever possibly

686
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: want to assault them, and that the narrative around transpolkes

687
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: is this completely ridiculous stereotype of a trans person waiting

688
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: to assault somebody in a bathroom, which we know is

689
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: not actually happening. Um So, she writes, I stayed silent

690
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: because they knew that while many survivors are met with

691
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: disbelief in doubt when they showed their stories. Trans survivors

692
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: often also face a different kind of disbelief, one rooted

693
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: in the perception that trans people are quote too disgusting

694
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: to be assaulted. Alleged rapists and sexual harassers will sometimes

695
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: insist that they couldn't possibly have done what they've been

696
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: accused of because the person accusing them is too unattractive

697
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 1: to merit being assaulted. We've even heard that defense from

698
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: our sitting president exactly. Our sitting president has said that

699
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: it makes me want to scream, boils my blood. And

700
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: there's a part of the me To campaign that I

701
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: think was most effective in its mass consumption, which is

702
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: it got us all enraged again because of the sheer volume.

703
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: So whereas we've lost some things in the mainstreaming that

704
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: we need to reclaim, like a special focus on the experience,

705
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: the intersectional experience of being a trans woman, of being

706
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: a woman of color, and how it's not all the

707
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: same for every woman, we've also gained something in the

708
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: mass participation, which is a I think brought our awareness

709
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: of how commonplace this is. But be I got enraged

710
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: all over again and depressed quite frankly just seeing the

711
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: onslaught you know what I mean, it just felt like

712
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: too much. It felt like I'm just I want to

713
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: I want to find who all these people are in

714
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: punched in the face. I mean, I'm angry. I think

715
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. I think you actually did see some

716
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: people saying Hey, If it takes millions and millions and

717
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: millions of women saying me too for you to realize

718
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: this is a problem, what the hell right? Like, why

719
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: should we as survivors of sexual trauma, sexual crime, sexual abuse,

720
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: sexual assault? Why should it be on us to split

721
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 1: open our traumas for the world to see, to get

722
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: somebody to care. Right, this is not the first time

723
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: that we've had a viral campaign about sexual assauce around women,

724
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: like hashtag yes all women. We've done this before, We've

725
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: done here before. And so I think one of the

726
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: criticisms I see, and I think it's frankly valid, is

727
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: that if you're the kind of person who needs to

728
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: see this amount of trauma, this amount of labor on

729
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: the path of survivors to do something and see it's

730
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: a problem, like what is going on exactly? Bridget and

731
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: I think it's important to acknowledge that for every case

732
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: involving sexual assault or harassment at work, there's typically more

733
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: than one party involved. So for every one of those

734
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: hashtag me too tweets, you know, where was the other player?

735
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: Where was the other person in that equation? And that's

736
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: the spotlight that our pal Liz, playing friend of the

737
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: show and the show, um, she really shed light on

738
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: a different take, which was this hashtag him though, like

739
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: what about him? Though? What are we going to talk

740
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: about him? Though? And really pointing the microphone in a

741
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: different direction of saying, Okay, we've heard from plenty of survivors.

742
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: When are we going to hear from men? What are

743
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: we going to hear from men on this? Yeah? And

744
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: I think I'm a big fan of not just having

745
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: the onus being on survivors to do the heavy lifting

746
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: and unpacking and all of that. But yeah, I almost

747
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: felt a little bit exasperated seeing so many men saying

748
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: I believe you, I believe you. I believe you. First

749
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: of all, I don't think we're doing this to have

750
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: men believe us, right, I don't get frankly, I like

751
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: I like what you were about it. I'm completely We're

752
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: not doing this because we want you to believe us.

753
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: We're doing it because we want you to do something

754
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: about it. Right, And so I got a little bit

755
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: irritated watching so many of my male coworkers and calls

756
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: and friends sort of virtues signaling by being like, I

757
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: believe you, I believe you, I believe you, but then

758
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: having an end there. And so I'm not someone who

759
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: is into just giving validation for a man saying I

760
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: believe you. I want you to go further. Make a

761
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: plan for what you're gonna do when you see your

762
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: homeboy do something out of line. Make a plan for

763
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do when you see sexual harassment in

764
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 1: your workplace, even if you're an underling, make a plan

765
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: for it. To tell me what you are going to

766
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: do to help unpack this. Don't just pat yourself on

767
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: the back and be like, hey, women, I believe you,

768
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: do something about it. That's what I found some interesting

769
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: about that other hashtag that popped off from this I

770
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: did that where the men actually saying, you know what,

771
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: it turns out that in college I actually did make

772
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: a girl feel uncomfortable, or it turns out that I

773
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: was I did have more power over a woman, and

774
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: I use that to get her to go on a

775
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: date with me, or it turns out that I did

776
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: exaggerate my status or my ability to make something happen

777
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: for a woman because I wanted to impress her, and

778
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: that was kind of gross. Like it's so easy to

779
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: pat yourself on the back and say I'm such a

780
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: great male feminist. I believe you, blah blah blah. It's

781
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: harder to be like, here are the specific ways that

782
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: I have contributed to a toxic culture wherein sexual harassment

783
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 1: and sexual assault is commonplace, right, and I think it's

784
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: on us. Has done a really good job of having

785
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: that conversation with young men about not only understanding consent,

786
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: but understanding the responsibility of intervention when you see something

787
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: happening that is not okay and not consensual. I think

788
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: we need to have those conversations among grown ups in

789
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: the workplace and making sure assistance are not okay with

790
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: being the honey pot to set up a meeting like that,

791
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: and making sure drivers are gonna speak out, because I

792
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: think power and coercion in the professional domain is so

793
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: much more tangible because your salaries on the line that

794
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: that sense of power and the risk you face for

795
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: speaking out is so real that there are these systemic

796
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: ways in which we are failing people. Sure we might

797
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: be able to curb it on the college campus level,

798
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: with Joe Biden giving a hell of a speech about

799
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: maybe having sex with an unconscious woman isn't consensual? Dudes, like,

800
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: maybe we should all intervene when we see something like

801
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: that happening. No, which is sort of every every sort

802
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: of emotion that I've come out of the two campaign,

803
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: it all comes back to know, um, but you know,

804
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,479
Speaker 1: seeing the men in my life on my news feed

805
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,479
Speaker 1: who said I've just like the women, just like I

806
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: was saying to you off air that this has caused

807
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: me to go back and review every pseudo sexual encounter

808
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: that's ever happened to me in the professional domain or

809
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: in college or whatever, and sort of examine was that okay?

810
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of men out there

811
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: who are doing the same, and if there aren't, they

812
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: should be. And whether or not you're going to tweet

813
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: about it, maybe just ask yourself was that okay? And

814
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 1: if not, how am I going to do something better?

815
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: How am I gonna be better? In Michelle Obama's way.

816
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: That's yeah. That's the thing. Something that I was really

817
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: struck by in watching this campaign take over my personal

818
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: feed was people saying things like, oh, I had a

819
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: me too status earlier about being sexually harassed, and the

820
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: guy who's axually harassed me liked it. And I was like, yeah,

821
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: just like, I mean, how do you make I shouldn't

822
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: even make. I was like, I can't even make sense

823
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: of this. Are the problem is so bad and the

824
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: bad actors here are so I don't even know what

825
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like egocentric. I think it's about them, It's

826
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: it's we're in such a place when it comes to

827
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: the conversation around sexual harassment assault that the people who

828
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: are often the perpetrators are not even seeing themselves in

829
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: that light. Somebody tweeted at us actually just the other

830
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: day um and brought this text message exchange to light

831
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: for us between a sexual assault survivor who had used

832
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: the status on her Facebook wall to say me too

833
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: and the person who she was talking about, texting her saying, Hey,

834
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: I'm just I wanted to let you know I'm here

835
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about this, and she was like,

836
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: you're the last person I wanted to talk to, and

837
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: he was like, you know, I've I told you that

838
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: I feel bad about what happened between us. There was

839
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: no malicious intent, and you know it's not fair that

840
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: we both keep carrying around the psychological baggage. Kidding. He

841
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we should talk about this and

842
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: get it off our chest. And she was like this,

843
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: this is not for you to get any sense of

844
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: relief from. But that's not what I'm here for. Yeah,

845
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. It's like people who are survivors

846
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: are not doing this to make the people who have

847
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,479
Speaker 1: implemented trauma on others feel better. I mean, that's that's

848
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: the frustration of this campaign too. It's I think it's

849
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: more enraging than empowering for me, and I think there's

850
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: something worth looking into, and that like why I didn't

851
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: feel better when I posted no me too on my

852
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: Facebook status. I felt frustrated. I felt like it was

853
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: not super empowering, but it was something I felt compelled

854
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: to not stay silent about. I'm not here to like

855
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: glorify assault or like share my wounds. I feel like

856
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: there's something very perverse about this performance of I want

857
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: you to know the details of every person who's ever

858
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: crossed those boundaries with me. That's voyeuristic. You know at

859
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: its core that I'm going to share those details with

860
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: the people who I have intimate relationships in my life

861
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: as I feel they warrant sharing and no further you

862
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So there's something weird about how

863
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: I how I left this campaign feeling I don't think

864
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 1: you're alone at all. And actually, um, someone wrote into

865
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: one of my favorite advice columns, Slates Dear Prudence, and

866
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: they wrote in feeling angry and triggered and just really

867
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: upset by the whole meat to campaigns. So she writes

868
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: about how this campaign was feeling really triggering for her

869
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: as a rape survivor. Her boss posted on Facebook about

870
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: how quote proud he was of all the women sharing

871
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: their stories, and she writes, at the same time, I

872
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: want to respond. I want to tell people that survivors

873
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: don't owe them their stories. I don't want people to

874
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: come away from this display of mutual pain and think

875
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: that by posting a hashtag they've done enough. I'm feeling

876
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: really gross doubt by all the men who seems to

877
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: have never realized this was a thing until now. I

878
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: understand how people will want to pose, but it makes

879
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: me furious. I just feel like everything I've gone through

880
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: has been reduced down to a hashtag so it can

881
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: trand on social media. And so I think You're not

882
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: alone and feeling like this is this weird, heavy burden

883
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: where you're supposed to slit open your wounds for the

884
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: world to see. Not everybody feels like that's going to

885
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: be an empowering or helpful thing in their life, and

886
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: I think that should be respected exactly. Not to mention

887
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: how triggering this could be. Having multiple people talking about

888
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: their trauma and their pain, how triggering and this could

889
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: be for someone who is dealing with this that kind

890
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: of thing. I mean, I know that the day that

891
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: we were talking about Weinstein all day on a loop,

892
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: I had to I had to leave early because I

893
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: was just like, I can't stop thinking about this, and

894
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: it's all I can think about. I think we should

895
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: take a break because I'm getting enraged and pressed all

896
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: over again. First of all, the second of all, the

897
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: good news is that there are things we can do

898
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: about this, right but there are good people who are

899
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: taking action on these issues that we can join forces

900
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: with and the hashtag was just the start of the conversation.

901
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: The hashtag is by no means the end of activist

902
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: momentum on this, It's just the beginning. And as a

903
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: Woody Allen I believe, came to the defense of Weinstein saying,

904
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: I hope this doesn't trigger a witch hunt. That is

905
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm hoping for. Let's talk more about that

906
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: after a quick break and we're back. We were just

907
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: getting very righteously angry about the state of sexual assault

908
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: and sexual harassment that we're dealing with here in this country,

909
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: which is appalling. Um, we've been talking a lot about

910
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: Hollywood and media, but it's important to point out that

911
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: in no way is sexual assault and sexual harassment just

912
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: regulated to those fields. And so I've actually been really

913
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: really interested to see how this Weinstein case has seemingly

914
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: opened the doors to other industries having people be called

915
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: out with their toxic behavior. And so earlier this week

916
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: we saw Mark help Grate at NBC have a handful

917
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: of accusations from women that you worked with at NBC

918
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: and ABC. Um, just to be on the record that

919
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: he masturbated in front of an ABC News employee. In

920
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: his office and then violently threw another woman against a

921
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: restaurant window before attempting to kiss her. So I just

922
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: want to make sure like people know that if those

923
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: are the kinds of behaviors you hope won't cause you

924
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 1: to be the center of a witch hunt, think again,

925
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: because I am excited and motivated for this witch hunt,

926
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: because this is the kind of bs that we need

927
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: to call out, and people like that should not be

928
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,959
Speaker 1: able to get away with that. As Linda West wrote

929
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,720
Speaker 1: in The New York Times, it is a hunt, witches,

930
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: and we're hunting you. It's it's like, oh, I just

931
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: masturbated in front of my I masturbated in front of

932
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: a co worker and throw her up against the wall

933
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: and try to kiss her and not get called what

934
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: is this? Germany such emotional women are overreacting. Oh my god. Um. Also,

935
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: if you listen to our Silicon Valley episode, you know

936
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: that sexual harassment for tech employees is a is a

937
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: real problem, and so earlier this week we saw a

938
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: blogger and former Microsoft tech evangelist Robert Scobel get some

939
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 1: pretty intense allegations from women saying that he groped them,

940
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: that he would attack them, and he ended up sort

941
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: of blaming alcoholism for those for that behavior. M that's

942
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: sad and real, but also not an excuse. I mean,

943
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 1: I I don't alcoholism and addiction issues cause a whole

944
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: host of things and people's lives. But I think he

945
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: can be both, like, oh, he has a serious mental

946
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: health problem. He needs help, and you're gonna have to

947
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 1: actually like be responsible for your own actions anyway, exactly. Actually,

948
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: just yesterday Kevin spacey Um, he came out that he

949
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: had made advances to an actor who was just fourteen

950
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: at the time, and you know people, and then there's

951
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: been rumors about him for the long this time that

952
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: he's been kind of a toxic, predatory person. And I

953
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: think that, like it just goes to show you that

954
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: it's not just women, it's it's a prevalent issue for

955
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: all kinds of folks. Well, and I guess the gay

956
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: community is up in arms today because his response it was,

957
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: excuse me, I'm gay, Like I'm going to use that

958
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: as a shield. Yeah, being a gay man and making

959
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: a sexual advance toward a child, those are two different things. Like,

960
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: I'm I'm almost horrified that you could try to conflate

961
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: them like that's almost like a that's a pr strategy

962
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: that is so sleazy and toxic that I can't even

963
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: believe that someone told him that was a good idea,

964
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: that like, oh, I will excuse myself trying to make

965
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: a sexual advance toward a literal child by saying I'm gay.

966
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: What no, no, no, no, no no no, kind of

967
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: like saying you're sweet old president too, right, which president?

968
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: Kind of like George H. W. Bush who last week,

969
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: after it was made clear that he regularly tells dirty

970
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: jokes and then pinches the bottoms of young women posing

971
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: in photos next to the former president, his team released

972
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: a statement saying he's just a sweet old guy who does,

973
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: in fact pinch women's bottom. That's what I found so weird.

974
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: They're not he doesn't pinch bottoms, are saying he does.

975
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: Kind of a break that's his thing, that he's a

976
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: charming old man who pinches bottoms. And we were all

977
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: just like, what are you kidding me? And that just

978
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: goes to show you how far we have to go

979
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: in this conversation. It's not just about me too. In

980
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: a world where the perpetrators would like your status, it's

981
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: apparently defining what consent is again and again, and not

982
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: just for college boys pronass men like George H. W.

983
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: Bush knowing that you can't hide behind you're sort of

984
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: senile behavior as being an excuse. So as you've been saying,

985
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: which I think it goes to show that this is

986
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: not relegated to any single industry, It is not relegated

987
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: to people of any single sexual orientation. Um. It has

988
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: everything to do with power, and it has a lot

989
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: to do with what's happening at work, because when people

990
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: are using their professional power and influence for a means

991
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: to coerce you into sexual activity that is non consensual,

992
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: then it's especially disgusting going off that. Something I found

993
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: really really gonna be telling about how bad a situation

994
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: we're in with this is that earlier this month, BuzzFeed

995
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: put out a call they wanted to know who are

996
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: the hard of you wine scenes of your industry. So

997
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: if you're you know, a mathematician, who is the guy

998
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: that everyone knows as a creep that has been getting

999
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: away with it? And I was when I saw that,

1000
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,800
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, great, like out these creeps totally

1001
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 1: like let's do this. I'm in that ended up sort

1002
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: of spinning off into what they called the Media Men List.

1003
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: And this was a crowdsourced Google doc where it had

1004
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of names of men who had done

1005
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: various inappropriate at things and these things. And I should

1006
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: say it's all allegations. The list makes it very clear that, um,

1007
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: you know, take the list with the grain of salt

1008
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: because it's just anonymous allegations, so you know, know that

1009
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 1: going in. But what I found really telling him aout

1010
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: this list is that it ranges from things like sliding

1011
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: into someone's d m s and being weird to outright

1012
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, assault or rape, and then things that are

1013
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: not sexual in nature. Like one of the people who

1014
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: was on the list is a man who, while his

1015
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: inappropriate behavior was not sexual in nature, it was like

1016
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: threatening and bullying, and so it was things like intimidating

1017
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: interns and making them feel like if they crossed him

1018
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: in some way that he would retaliate against them, so

1019
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't sexual. Um, that also had a racial component

1020
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,479
Speaker 1: where he would sort of tokenize employees of color and

1021
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: threaten them in that way, saying, oh, well, I'm the

1022
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: tastemaker of black writers around here, and so if you want,

1023
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, to be the black writer on our team,

1024
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,240
Speaker 1: you better play ball with me. But it wasn't sexual.

1025
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:02,479
Speaker 1: It's just weirdly intimidating and a an inappropriate exchange of power. Well,

1026
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: it's funny because it sounds like this is a tale

1027
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: as old as time, right, like influence power wielding that

1028
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: influence in power. It happens every day. It happens every

1029
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: and some of it is illegal and some of it's

1030
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: not totally so it is you know, I can almost

1031
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: hear the outcry of that group that Trump met with

1032
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: which we covered in the specialsau that's right when we

1033
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: were tackling title nine, the mothers of accused I'm sorry,

1034
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: falsely accused rapists whose lives have been ruined because some

1035
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: girl regretted a night with their boyfriend basically. And I

1036
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: can hear those folks lighting up there tiki torches already

1037
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:54,959
Speaker 1: because the line between white supremacists and my son's Yeah,

1038
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: I can almost like hear the beads of sweat forming

1039
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: on those folks as brows. Because if you think about it,

1040
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: the micratization of gossip through the Internet can be used powerfully,

1041
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: and some might argue can be used as a form

1042
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: of influence and blacklisting, and it can be used in

1043
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: a retaliatory way, just like we're trying to prevent. Now,

1044
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm not here saying that that's what that listens about,

1045
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: but I get the Woody Allen fear of a witch hunt,

1046
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: and at the same time, I think we need a

1047
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: lot more of that kind of exposure. Well. I actually

1048
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: have often argued that the reason why we are seeing

1049
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: these kinds of watershed moments is exactly because of things

1050
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: like social media. I think, you know, when you look

1051
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: at Cosby's situation, I think that Cosby came from an

1052
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: era where it's old Hollywood, where you can call someone's

1053
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: pr agent and say, hey, this story, can we have

1054
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: it killed? It's really gonna be bad for us, And

1055
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 1: we would never be privy to any of that because

1056
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: those power players are wealth, be connected and all of that.

1057
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: And so that's happening in rooms where most of us

1058
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: will probably never be. And I think with things like Twitter,

1059
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: it has democratized people's voices and so people who largely

1060
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: did not have a platform, did not have a voice,

1061
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: can say, hey, like this happened to me, Hey this

1062
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: wasn't okay. And a PR person can't call Twitter and say, hey,

1063
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: can you kill this story? That's not how Twitter works.

1064
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: So it's kind of this reclaiming of power and influence

1065
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: and voice and giving it a sort of a more

1066
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: level playing field where you know, Cosby, I'll never forget

1067
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: when that story bubbled up again, there was no one

1068
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: to call. There was no PR person that you could

1069
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: call to make everybody stop tweeting about it. It It just was.

1070
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: It existed. And I don't think you saw that before.

1071
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: That is such a good point, and I think it's

1072
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: just goes to show you that when women, especially but

1073
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: but survivors of assaults across the gender spectrum get together,

1074
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: like your voice can be powerful. And that's what we

1075
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: saw with Me Too. But Me Too was just the beginning.

1076
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: And so solidarity and a unified front and sort of

1077
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: acknowledging each other's differences, and the unity is going to

1078
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: be really critical to make this movement an effective campaign

1079
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: for change. I could not agree more and so we

1080
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: didn't want to end without giving you some resources. If

1081
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: you're finding yourself dealing with sexual solt or sexual harassment

1082
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: in general or in the workplace, here are a couple

1083
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: of resources that you should know that you have at

1084
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: your disposal. UM one is a great organization that I

1085
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: know and love is the National Women's Law Center. Their

1086
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: number is two O two eight five one eight. That's

1087
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: two O two eight five one eighty and they're really

1088
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: helpful in terms of coming up with legal resources. If

1089
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: you want to take legal action against someone who is

1090
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: breaking the law or or treating you in a way

1091
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: that's inappropriate, and you want to know what your legal

1092
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: resources are, there are a great, great, great resource for you.

1093
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: And furthermore, don't forget to check out the eo C,

1094
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, who we are always giving

1095
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: a little shout out to because our little labor organizer

1096
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: blood in US can't can't help but mention how influential

1097
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: they have become. And yes, they are part of the government,

1098
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: so this is us relying on our taxpayer dollars and

1099
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: actually cashing in on some of that investment. You can

1100
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: contact them at one eight hundred six six nine four thousand,

1101
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: that's one eight hundred six six nine four thousand, and

1102
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: search their website at eo C dot gov for more. So,

1103
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: Sminty listeners, we want to hear from you This is

1104
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: obviously an issue that many many, many of us were

1105
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: dealing with. How's it showing up in your life? How

1106
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: did you feel about the me too campaign? Was it

1107
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: something that you participated in? Why or why not? How

1108
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: did you feel about it? If you're a dude, did

1109
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: you take part in campaigns like him though? Or I

1110
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: did that? How did that go for you? We really

1111
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: want to hear how these campaigns are showing up in

1112
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: your spaces. Yeah, I also want to hear where do

1113
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: you want to see this go? Are you down for

1114
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: the witch hunt you know what I mean? Like? Or

1115
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: are you fearful of this becoming an infringement on equal

1116
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: justice under the law? You know like? Is the power

1117
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: of gossip in the workplace being harnessed productively? Or do

1118
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: you fear its accusations? Run them up? I'm intrigued by

1119
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: how nuanced our path forward really can be, and I'd

1120
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: love to hear from you brilliant listeners on what action

1121
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: you plan on taking. So get in touch with us

1122
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: on Instagram. We're at stuff mom ever told you On

1123
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Twitter We're at mom Stuff podcast and we love reading

1124
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: your emails at mom stuff at how stuff works dot com.

1125
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: M