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Speaker 1: What are we even do? What are we even doing?

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Speaker 1: What are we even doing? This is my little podcast

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Speaker 1: where I sit down and I talk to wonderful creatives, actors, artist, musicians,

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Speaker 1: podcast hosts, men about town and today very special guest.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you have three names. I do Devin ross

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Speaker 1: katz is with us, ladies and gentlemen. I am so

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Speaker 1: excited you have the the title of the most valuable

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Speaker 1: hype man in the history of television. I think Mike White.

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Speaker 1: Is he the one who gave you that monitor? Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: I don't hate it. What's funny though, was I don't

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Speaker 2: think it was intentionally something that he said that would

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Speaker 2: be out there. She said it in a This is

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Speaker 2: like a It's one of those stories. He recorded a

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Speaker 2: video for me that he gave to Katie Kuric because

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Speaker 2: Katie kirk was interviewing me. Yes, and she played it

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Speaker 2: for me as a surprise. Oh, and he said that

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Speaker 2: in the video and the moment I heard that, I

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Speaker 2: was like, Yeah, well that's going on the rest of Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's I want to be referred to, Yes, because I

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Speaker 2: feel like it encapsulates how I like to see myself,

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Speaker 2: which is ultimately like fanboy, like hype man like person

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Speaker 2: who gets behind the thing and cheerleads.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because it comes from passion. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know that you have Buffy on the sweatshirt, which is

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Speaker 1: your my show. Yeah, I mean have you seen Buffy.

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Speaker 1: I saw early early episodes when it first aired, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is interesting because it was

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Speaker 1: a different approach, you know, And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I loved it. But then I sort of went on

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Speaker 1: to other things. But I know you stuck with it

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Speaker 1: and like it became a really important part of who

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Speaker 1: you are.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I feel like, Okay, Well, first

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Speaker 2: of all, I think there are similarities between the fandoms

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Speaker 2: of Twin Peaks and Buffy. The vampires so interesting, and

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Speaker 2: I think that they're I'm really interested in, like the

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Speaker 2: ephemeral quality of certain art, and I feel like, in

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Speaker 2: the case of Twin Peaks and then also with Buffy,

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Speaker 2: these are these shows that sort of exist in some

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Speaker 2: way decades later, and there are so many really popular

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Speaker 2: shows of their time that more or less get forgotten,

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Speaker 2: and so I feel really lucky in the fact that

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Speaker 2: Buffy was the first show that I discovered that really

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Speaker 2: connected a lot of dots for me about life and

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Speaker 2: the kind of person I wanted to be, and there

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Speaker 2: being a world outside of the one that I had

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Speaker 2: been born into, and like the place I lived, there

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Speaker 2: was a bigger, different, alternative world. Yeah, but also I

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Speaker 2: feel glad now years later that Buffy is something that

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Speaker 2: I can still connect with people on and that still

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Speaker 2: has zeitgeist appeal and it doesn't feel like I'm like

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Speaker 2: stuck in the past, despite the fact that it is

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Speaker 2: this thing that is very of the past, but somehow

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Speaker 2: it has a life today and I'm obsessed with like

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Speaker 2: art that gets to live on.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, why that is How old were you when

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Speaker 1: you discovered Buffy.

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Speaker 2: I would have been so this would be nineteen ninety,

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Speaker 2: it would have been nine. I was not supposed to

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Speaker 2: be watching it, but I remember flipping through the channels.

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Speaker 2: It was I think at that time that would have

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Speaker 2: been viewed like little yeah, like for the for the Tetans.

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Speaker 2: And also at this time there was much more like

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Speaker 2: there was a lot more division in terms of what

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Speaker 2: content was made for what consumer. So for instance, you

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Speaker 2: had like the difference between eight pm, nine pm and

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Speaker 2: ten pm, right, and there was a different kind of show,

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Speaker 2: so I could still watch TV, but it was sort

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Speaker 2: of a it was a show for young adults. I

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Speaker 2: was not yet young, not yet a young adult. Found

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Speaker 2: it immediately was like, this show is doing something different.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know about the world of sci fi or

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Speaker 2: paranormal or what have you. And then there was just

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Speaker 2: an allure about her. I always felt so spiritually drawn

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Speaker 2: to her. There was this magazine when I was a

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Speaker 2: kid called BB and Bop, but it was just basically

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Speaker 2: like glossy photos of the young celebrities of the moment,

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Speaker 2: but there would always be Sarah Michelle Geller. And this

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Speaker 2: was before I had discovered Buffy, because she was famous

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Speaker 2: from all my children at that point, and I never

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Speaker 2: knew who this woman is. And there's this photo that

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Speaker 2: still stays in my brain from BB or Bop and

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Speaker 2: it was her at the bottom of a staircase, just

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Speaker 2: staring seductively at the camera, and I remember being like,

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Speaker 2: I knew who all the other celebrities except for her,

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Speaker 2: and so that became appealing because she was the other

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Speaker 2: And so then when I connected her to Buffy, it

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Speaker 2: was a little bit of like the aha moment of like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is the woman from this and I found her

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Speaker 2: here and I'm going to follow her. Here we are.

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Speaker 1: Ye got to today and here we are. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: earlier about you compared Twin Peaks and Buffy's there's something

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Speaker 1: about these shows that remains that people continue to find.

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Speaker 1: I think fan bases. I mean my fan base is

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Speaker 1: skewing younger and younger because people are finding Twin Peaks

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Speaker 1: and they are really responding to it. Do you have

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Speaker 1: a thought about what it is about the shows that

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Speaker 1: really holds on?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, but I want your thoughts on this too, Okay,

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Speaker 2: So I think it comes down to creators with really

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Speaker 2: established visions of what they want the product to be.

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Speaker 2: So obviously David Lynch Jos Weeden are great examples. I

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Speaker 2: think it's happening right now with have you seen Pluribus yet?

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Speaker 1: Not yet?

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Speaker 2: The new Vince Gilligan show, Oh My God, Run Don't Walk.

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Speaker 2: But that is another example of I was sold on

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Speaker 2: the idea of the show by creator alone. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I trust this man based off of past works that

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Speaker 2: I'm like, where he leads me, I will go, which

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people feel about to give

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Speaker 2: it right, It's like if David makes it. Whatever he's selling,

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Speaker 2: I'm buying. Yeah, So I think it's established worlds is

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Speaker 2: one thing, and then I think people that really resonate

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Speaker 2: with things that aren't derivative, right, that don't come from IP.

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Speaker 2: So the idea that people are building worlds, I think

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Speaker 2: is just deeply appealing. So that's why you can kind

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Speaker 2: of spin off or do derivative versions because the world

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Speaker 2: is so established that people just want to immerse themselves

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Speaker 2: in that world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you about that, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's one of the reasons all the cast

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Speaker 1: members signed on to do Twin Peaks because at that time,

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Speaker 1: you know, David was the first of creative of that

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Speaker 1: type to approach television and look at it as a

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Speaker 1: place where, hey, I can be creative in this world.

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Speaker 1: I can do some things that I want to do

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Speaker 1: that haven't necessarily been seen before. And they, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of they gave him the keys of the kingdom,

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Speaker 1: opened the door. We at least did the pilot, which

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Speaker 1: was pure Lynch with the help of Mark Frost, who

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Speaker 1: was co writer on that. So there was some structure there,

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Speaker 1: but it really had so many elements of David and

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Speaker 1: I think all of us signed on because we felt

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Speaker 1: like this is gonna be a one and done. There's

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Speaker 1: no way, no way. Television is not ready for whatever

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Speaker 1: Lynch is gonna do. And then to our great surprise,

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Speaker 1: ABC said, oh, we're going to buy a few more.

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Speaker 1: We'll do a mid season replacement. We'll buy seven more

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Speaker 1: and we'll put them on the air. And that was

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Speaker 1: like a revelation. We were like, this is crazy. So

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Speaker 1: but I agree with you. I think it was about

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Speaker 1: seeing something on television that had never been seen before

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Speaker 1: in many different ways, music, musically, visually, the story was different,

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Speaker 1: and it was also a rhythm to it that was

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Speaker 1: different than most television. There were a lot of if

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Speaker 1: I've gone back recently, and there's a lot of moments

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Speaker 1: that are just sort of drawn out and slow, and

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Speaker 1: as an audience, you don't really they're not telling you

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Speaker 1: how to respond, they're letting you kind of respond, and

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Speaker 1: some you think, is it funny, You're gonna laugh. If

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Speaker 1: you think it's weird, you're gonna go that's strange. And

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Speaker 1: so it lets the audience in on the joke a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask a follow up?

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Speaker 1: Please? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Because so in the case of twin Peaks. It was

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Speaker 2: like this immediate hit and it was a water cooler

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Speaker 2: moment in television with Sex and the City Season three

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Speaker 2: when you came on. It obviously was a big show

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Speaker 2: then and it was a hit, but it was much

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Speaker 2: more of a an if you know you know. So

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Speaker 2: was there a difference for you and sort of how

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Speaker 2: you understood these two very successful things in the moment.

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Speaker 1: I did understand I had to be brought to Sex

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Speaker 1: and the City. Actually, my wife was heavily influenced me

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Speaker 1: because they had reached out and I was like, I've

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Speaker 1: I have heard of the show, but I wasn't really

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Speaker 1: a big consumer, so I was like, Okay, I really

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Speaker 1: don't know what's going on there, and she was and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not sure, and she was like,

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Speaker 1: you're doing it. Just like that. It was like, there's

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Speaker 1: no question, whatever it is, you're doing it, because she

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Speaker 1: recognized the fact, of course that the show had resonated

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Speaker 1: so strongly with audiences. It was such a big cultural phenomena.

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Speaker 1: But when I got in it was it's funny because

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Speaker 1: it's a very it was a very intimate process, and

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Speaker 1: in that I would go to work. We were at

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Speaker 1: silver Cup and work with with Kristin Davis. We would

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Speaker 1: shoot our stuff, you know, our scenes, and then I

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Speaker 1: would go home, you know, and I maybe maybe I

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Speaker 1: would see John Corbett or something in a hall heading

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Speaker 1: out or David, you know, and I would just be like,

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Speaker 1: hey guys, and that was it. You know, there was

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Speaker 1: no it wasn't like the vibe of it, which you

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Speaker 1: didn't really experience until you saw the show. So I

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Speaker 1: was kind of like just going to work doing the thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and wrestling with this character trying to

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Speaker 1: take which was obviously kind of a kind of a

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Speaker 1: joke idea, but then say, well, can we deepen it?

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Speaker 1: What's really behind? What's going on? How is it affecting

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Speaker 1: the people? And I think we were sort of moderately

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Speaker 1: successful at that doing that. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: have only moderately I mean, well, you know, creating that

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Speaker 1: side of the story, because there was One of the

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Speaker 1: things about it that I love the most was the

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Speaker 1: some of the visual moments that basically said everything about

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Speaker 1: the relationship. Mattress shopping with Bunny, with Francis Ternhagen, three

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Speaker 1: of us lying on the mattress just like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: get clearer than that, And I said, that's just brilliant writing,

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Speaker 1: brilliant visualizing. You know, the scene in the bathtub when

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Speaker 1: I'm in there, you know, Francis is sitting on the toilet,

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Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette, having a just regular conversation as I'm

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Speaker 1: in the tub, you know, in a tub soaking, and

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Speaker 1: Kristen comes in and said, you can't explain the reality

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Speaker 1: of that relationship any better than just you don't even

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Speaker 1: have to say anything. Yeah, it's just a picture of that,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: You know. I do sometimes wonder if we were to

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Speaker 2: get like Trey's POV on everything, is there a world

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Speaker 2: in which it's like, listen, Charlotte, I have to act

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Speaker 2: this way and acquiesce to my mother's demands because there

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Speaker 2: is a trust, a literal trust, and for us to

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Speaker 2: live this Upper east Side life that we both want,

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Speaker 2: this is the price that I have to pay. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't say that I have like necessarily sympathy for Trey,

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Speaker 2: but I do just wonder if we were ever to

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Speaker 2: get like the Trey remix, if there's a version where

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Speaker 2: it's like the.

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Speaker 1: Best I can your perspective on Trey, which I find

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Speaker 1: is an actor's approach and I'm wondering, is that something

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Speaker 1: Is that a career? Is that something that you were

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Speaker 1: at all interested in?

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Speaker 2: Not acting? But I really do because I went to

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Speaker 2: school for directing. I think my innate sensibility when I

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Speaker 2: watch something is like I'm always trying to think of

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Speaker 2: the pov of all people involved, and I think one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons why something like a Breaking bad really

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Speaker 2: resonated for me at the time, or even I've been

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Speaker 2: really invested in, like the reappraisal of Carrie Bradshaw as

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Speaker 2: like a bad guy, which I fundamentally reject, but I'm

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Speaker 2: really fascinated by that because I like the idea that

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Speaker 2: we can all look at certain characters and they might

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Speaker 2: be written as quote unquote heroes or quote unquote villains,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sort of interested in like what got them there?

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Speaker 2: And there are pieces of art that have explored this

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Speaker 2: very concept in depth. But in the case of like

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Speaker 2: a Trey, who I think is written in service of Charlotte, right,

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Speaker 2: like he is a.

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Speaker 3: Well, all the men I mean maybe exactly Chris maybe,

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Speaker 3: but I mean, for the most.

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Speaker 2: Part though, the men are vehicles for the women. As

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Speaker 2: someone you know, Television's my medium of choice. I grew

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Speaker 2: up with it. It's a huge part of what I

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Speaker 2: do now. I think it impacts human behavior and how

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Speaker 2: we see the world. So even the way I talk,

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Speaker 2: you know, you mentioned Buffy earlier. There's a thing it's

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Speaker 2: called Buffy speak, and like I developed a lot of

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Speaker 2: like my speech pattern in like middle school, particularly around

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Speaker 2: Buffy's speak. Like I changed the way I formed sentences.

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Speaker 1: Did people know that you recognize that what you were

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Speaker 1: doing or.

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Speaker 2: Now No, I think they just knew it. As how

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Speaker 2: Evan talks, like you take the idea of the sentence

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Speaker 2: of like I'm going to go there, and you kind

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Speaker 2: of say, what are other ways that we can arrive

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Speaker 2: at this same sentence that aren't just saying the obvious thing?

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Speaker 2: But Buffy had like a cleverness about it. And so

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Speaker 2: when I used to like write screenplays when I was

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Speaker 2: like thirteen fourteen, you know, put them on floppy drives,

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Speaker 2: I would often be thinking, like, how can I say

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Speaker 2: this sentence or present this idea in a way that's

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Speaker 2: not so obvious? Yeah, I'm sure I would go back

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Speaker 2: now and be like alarmed at how effortful I was

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Speaker 2: in that. And I don't think it would be like

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Speaker 2: a good writing, But I think it stretched my idea

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Speaker 2: of like how to write in a way that is

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Speaker 2: not just from A to B.

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Speaker 1: My chief complaints about reading a script, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: an average script is that the voices of the characters

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Speaker 1: are interchangeable. Yeah, and I start reading that, I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who's speaking, and I don't know why there,

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Speaker 1: I don't know where they're going. And it's usually the

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Speaker 1: mark of not a very good script. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: love the idea that you were living kind of living

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Speaker 1: in the world a little bit. I'm guilty as well.

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Speaker 1: From Doune when I was fourteen, that to me was

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Speaker 1: I guess my Buffy was like my bible, for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better word. I mean, I read it over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again. I could quote from the book.

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Speaker 1: I knew everything about it, and I fancy myself Paul.

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Speaker 1: You know what would Paul do in this situation?

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Speaker 3: You know, so I would walk around with kind of

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Speaker 3: in a little bit of a fantasy space, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I don't know if that was okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And it was the power of imagination, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was so comforting. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did it go from imagination to somehow kind of seeping

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Speaker 2: its way into your being at all.

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Speaker 1: I kind of did. I think there was sort of

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Speaker 1: a there was a nobility there to him. I certainly

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Speaker 1: tried to embody, you know. When I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the midst of junior high school, it was like

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Speaker 1: really just walking the halls making sure that I, you know, survived.

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Speaker 1: It was junior high for me was just survival basically.

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Speaker 1: So Paul was for me like a lifeline and a

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Speaker 1: couple of teachers who allowed me. My English teacher actually

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Speaker 1: allowed me to write quotes from the book on her

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Speaker 1: on the blackboard.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny. All she did was allow you. Right, Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's not always necessarily just the lessons. Sometimes it's just

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Speaker 2: the allowance to be who you are that is incredibly

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Speaker 2: freeing and affects who we are in adulthood. School for

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Speaker 2: me was not immensely good or bad. It doesn't hold

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Speaker 2: a lot of weight in my memory. But as you

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Speaker 2: were talking about it, it makes me think that I

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Speaker 2: think that there's there's a connection between being a gay

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Speaker 2: person in the specific time in which I grew up.

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Speaker 2: So I grew up in a post don't Ask, don't

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Speaker 2: Tell universe and we had representation in television on shows

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Speaker 2: like Will and Grace or like the Real World. That

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Speaker 2: was seismic at the time. But also we didn't grow

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Speaker 2: up in the world of today, where I think that

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Speaker 2: there's a swath of different versions of LGBTQ plus existence

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Speaker 2: in the media. It was much more like singular at

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Speaker 2: the time. I grew up being like a gay kid

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Speaker 2: kind of knew who he was or had an idea

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Speaker 2: of who he was in a place that told me

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Speaker 2: you can't be this. But there's something about in adulthood

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Speaker 2: hearing that that version is so often repeated to me

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Speaker 2: by others that it's changed my idea of it. Because

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Speaker 2: what was seemingly very isolating, I now find community in

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Speaker 2: people who also felt that isolation. And I found it

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Speaker 2: really character building. And so I do feel like when

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Speaker 2: I think back upon that time, think about like my

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Speaker 2: bullies or like, you know, the torment that I felt

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Speaker 2: at the time, I don't look back on it with

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Speaker 2: any sense of like, God, I wish i'd had it differently.

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Speaker 2: I think this is like what I had to go

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Speaker 2: through to get me to where I am today. But

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Speaker 2: I don't. I know a lot of people who like

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Speaker 2: that time for them really stays with them. I feel

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Speaker 2: a little bit of like a not rejection, but like

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Speaker 2: maybe suppression, but I don't think it really But you've

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Speaker 2: moved food.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you, and not everyone can move through

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Speaker 3: that or address it as you have and sort of

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Speaker 3: say you know what. It kind of kind of strengthened

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Speaker 3: me somehow, not tougher necessarily, but made me sort of

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Speaker 3: more resilient.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like I had a tough time. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: about being gay. It was about being feminine. That's really

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Speaker 2: the thing that I think young boys glob Onto when

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Speaker 2: they start builing a gay kid is femininity, right, It's

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Speaker 2: just something that they're taught not to be, and so

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Speaker 2: many of them are repressing in some way that when

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Speaker 2: they see it, it's something to sort of ridicule. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I had such a tough time with a notion that like,

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Speaker 2: because I was feminine or gay, that that would like

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Speaker 2: be something to bully me about, and it made me.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people that like causes them

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Speaker 2: to go in it. Really, I had such a strong

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Speaker 2: reaction to that, and it built a rage in me

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Speaker 2: in a way where and I don't say this proudly,

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Speaker 2: like I could be a little bit of a bully

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Speaker 2: towards my bullies, or I really felt this like sense

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Speaker 2: of if you nip at me, I'm gonna bite your

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Speaker 2: head off, just because I was just like I didn't

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Speaker 2: understand because I am not the prescriptive way in which

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Speaker 2: a young boy is supposed to be that that made

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Speaker 2: me subject for bullying. I didn't understand.

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Speaker 1: Was there any Was there someone or a person or

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Speaker 1: a place that you could share you know, any kind of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there wasn't a place. But I think that this

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Speaker 2: goes back to the conversation about the power of media,

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Speaker 2: because I think shows like Buffy and discovering pop culture

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Speaker 2: in general. So I came up like when I was

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Speaker 2: like in my early teens, that would have been like

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Speaker 2: the beginning of Facebook and you know aim and the

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Speaker 2: huge chat and like there was some access to the

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Speaker 2: outside world, but it was still quite limited. Like I

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Speaker 2: remember dial up internet, so it was like you could

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Speaker 2: go online, but your mom needed to use the phone,

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Speaker 2: so it was a negotiation. And then once you were online,

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Speaker 2: you felt like the time turner of like the sand

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Speaker 2: is running out before mom, so it's like I need

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Speaker 2: to get all of my shit done right, like, so,

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Speaker 2: I think that was it. It created. The world felt small

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Speaker 2: to me, but it was beginning to feel bigger and bigger,

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Speaker 2: and so I wouldn't say I had like a person.

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Speaker 2: But as my sense of the world being bigger and

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Speaker 2: bigger grew, I thought I was the only gay person

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Speaker 2: in the world. You don't know that. And then I

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Speaker 2: saw will and Grace and I was like, well, that's

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Speaker 2: another gay person, but I'm not him. So and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, I was like, okay, that there are

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Speaker 2: two gay people and it's me and him, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know about him. So it kept growing and then

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Speaker 2: I think, like as I started, as the world got bigger,

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Speaker 2: I saw to understand my place within it, and it

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Speaker 2: felt less isolated.

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Speaker 1: Was New York? Ever, part of the equation was there

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Speaker 1: was there a draw or was like, oh, I want

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Speaker 1: to get there.

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Speaker 2: So like the problem with New York, and I blame

396
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Speaker 2: my parents. I would come here and just do Times

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Speaker 2: Square and Broadway shows. Obviously Broadway shows were foundational to

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Speaker 2: me and amazing, but I didn't know. I didn't do museums,

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Speaker 2: I didn't come to Brooklyn, I didn't do the parks.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole New York now that if I didn't

401
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Speaker 2: live here and visited here, that would be like on

402
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Speaker 2: my you know, yeah, exactly. Like So it wasn't until

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Speaker 2: I got to NYU and discovered downtown yea and nightlife,

404
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Speaker 2: because that was the other thing I didn't know. I

405
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Speaker 2: read about nightlife. But I think like my young brain

406
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Speaker 2: was like, Okay, there was like the Studio fifty four era,

407
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Speaker 2: and then I knew of like this gay party scene

408
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Speaker 2: of the eighties and everything and sort of like the

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Speaker 2: subculture and club kids. I knew about it, but in

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Speaker 2: my mind it didn't occur to me that like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's still happens in some form today. I think my

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Speaker 2: young brain was just like they partied at Studio fifty four.

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Speaker 2: There was this club kid scene, and that's a wrap, right.

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Speaker 1: Those are your options. Yeah, well you mentioned sort of

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Speaker 1: post stuff, and I know you've done red carpet work.

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Speaker 1: You know there's red carpet work, and there's red carpet work.

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Speaker 1: It's like, hey, tell me about the show you're like,

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Speaker 1: and that's a deer in the headlights for an actor,

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Speaker 1: because this is like where do I begin. Yeah, unless

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Speaker 1: you do something funny, well, it's all about me, you know,

421
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: but you come at it with a kind of a

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Speaker 1: you have interesting questions to people and just say Morning Show,

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Speaker 1: you were trying to say if it was a mashup

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Speaker 1: kind of or what would you and you gave some examples,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's that's great because you give something

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Speaker 1: to the person that you're interviewing, like kind of a challenge,

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Speaker 1: a short SoundBite, something that they can come up with,

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Speaker 1: be clever. Yeah, it's a really a perfect approach. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Think I'm fascinated by interview in general. That's why I

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Speaker 2: do it, but also the mediums in which we do it. Right,

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Speaker 2: So like for instance, right now, you and I are

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Speaker 2: doing a long chat, so we can meander. We can wander,

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Speaker 2: We're not confined. Red carbon Interviewing is fascinating for a

434
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: number of reasons. They are there to sell a product, right,

435
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: if there's a product being sold, there is an aspect

436
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 2: to again the job right that they are doing. They

437
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: are performing a part of the job, and you kind

438
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 2: of have to balance increasingly in this world where virality

439
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 2: is the commodity. You have to balance the fact that

440
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: I want to satisfy the actor by asking them a

441
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 2: question about the work right, because a lot of these

442
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 2: actors they want to talk about the work because they're

443
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 2: proud of the work, as in some instances they should be.

444
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 2: It's but also you want to ask them the fun

445
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 2: are you a Carrie, Miranda, Charlotte, Samantha because that gets

446
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: the pop grave And so I think it's really a

447
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 2: balance and you kind of have to know who you're

448
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: talking to. You have to be ultra malleable. And it

449
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: kind of made me think as you asked this question

450
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,439
Speaker 2: about what you were describing with David, which is that

451
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 2: I think for me it's really about I often have

452
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 2: sixty seconds with them, and it all happens in that

453
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: first five seconds where I'm introducing myself to them, letting

454
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: them know what outlet I'm from, and in the tone

455
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 2: of my voice, in my gaze. It's all about establishing

456
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 2: the framework of this sixty seconds and what I hate

457
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: this word, but the vibe and I love love the

458
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 2: challenge of establishing a vibe. Interesting in a long form interview,

459
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: it's about gaining trust, right, I think that's long form

460
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 2: of interviews purpose.

461
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: I agree, but you have.

462
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 2: Time to amp up to that. I often say, like

463
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: the first ten minutes of a lot of my interviews

464
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 2: that I do, I end up discarding because a lot

465
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 2: of the first ten minutes is like us getting on

466
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: the ride, figuring out the ping pong.

467
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we started earlier, we.

468
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: Started exactly, which is great.

469
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

470
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 2: Well, it's why on late night shows they do the

471
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: pre interview or the host comes backstage and says hello,

472
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 2: so that you can kind of say, Okay, is this

473
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: person a little bit more stand offish? And if so,

474
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 2: how do I get there? I used to love back

475
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 2: in the day when I would do the red camera

476
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: h so you'd meet the red carpet. I could be

477
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: behind the camera. I love anything where like I'm an

478
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 2: invisible figure if I had it my way. I understand

479
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: that there's a virtue to visibility, but if I had

480
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: it my way, truly, it's like I would really love

481
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 2: to be as anonymous as possible.

482
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, observer, interpreting what's happening, putting in a larger context

483
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: that I feel is what you.

484
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 3: I mean, You're unbelievable at it. Top three Dead or

485
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 3: Alive North Star interview subjects.

486
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: It's okay, dead or alive.

487
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to go alive just because then it's

488
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: like maybe this could be like a way to like

489
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: will it into existence. Okay, I would say Inegarten would

490
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: be one.

491
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: I read her book Are You Are You the Cook?

492
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I'm really fascinated.

493
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: But so we're going to bond over something. But yeah,

494
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: never mind, sorry, yes, but I love for Hindergarten.

495
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, love her. I love the idea that life

496
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: doesn't start at a certain age, and so when I

497
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 2: read her book, I was really fascinated by the idea

498
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: that like she was on this trajectory of life and

499
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: then in quote unquote middle age, decided to upend the

500
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 2: life that she thought she was going to lead and

501
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: kind of start something anew. So I think there's so

502
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: much discussion that is like ripe in coming from the

503
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 2: kind of person who's willing to just go on this

504
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: completely separate course.

505
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: I like that.

506
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: So she comes to mind for me Quentin Tarantino, just

507
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: because I love the work. I love the work, and

508
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: I think in every interview I've read, he is so

509
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: willing to speak truth, not necessarily to power that was

510
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: was in that sentence. I don't think that's what I mean,

511
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: but he is just he is a truth teller in

512
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 2: a way that I think it is really difficult to

513
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: speak truth today in many senses, in true, in.

514
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: Story or in character creation or in seen, because I

515
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: think he's on all.

516
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: All of these things. But also I'm thinking too, just

517
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: like about truth about like how stories get made and

518
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 2: why they get made, and this industry and the difficulties.

519
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: And you know, he is someone who seemingly, if you're

520
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: on the outside of it, it's like he could do

521
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: whatever he wants. And I bet you I have to

522
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: interview I bet you there are roadblocks towards having the

523
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: kind of creative freedom that one might think someone of

524
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: his magnitude could have. And then I'm want to interview

525
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: someone that's like totally out of my wheelhouse so that

526
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: I could learn about them. And so again this is

527
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: this is what's coming. I'm just reat Tony Hawk is

528
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: just coming to mind for me. I've never I know

529
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: nothing about him at all. I don't know if it's

530
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 2: like if he competition. I don't know nothing. So I'm

531
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 2: prone to interviewing someone that I have to do an

532
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: extensive deep dive on. But who I I know is

533
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: worthy of the time to learn. Those are my things

534
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: to learn.

535
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's yeah, that's where.

536
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: It starts in Tony Quentin.

537
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

538
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: I think anything that strengthens strengthens those connections, that shared humanity.

539
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's part of why I'm doing this

540
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: as well, just like I want to talk to people

541
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to find common ground. Yeah, I think

542
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: it's so important right now, conversation. Key, it's we're lacking. Yeah,

543
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: I feel a bit, you know.

544
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 3: What I mean.

545
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we are breeding a culture of talkers and

546
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: not of in balance with listeners.

547
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: Right.

548
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: And one of the right things about interview is yes,

549
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: it's very much about talking and having questions, but it's

550
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: about listening, right, And so that's one thing I love

551
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 2: about interviewing and then also reacting to you know, you

552
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: have your questions there, but I imagine that you've deviated

553
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: from them because you're listening. We need to celebrate listening.

554
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's nice. Let's celebrate listening. I love that idea.

555
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: Chaos Tin, Yeah, which looks like a lot of fun.

556
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: I'd love you to come to one.

557
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: I would love to come. It would be great. I've

558
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: never have been invited, but that's okay. It looks like

559
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of a wonderful way to put people together,

560
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: creative people together and have just a fun conversations. Yeah,

561
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: I mean that's what we're talking about.

562
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because dinners have become I mean, they're

563
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: not new by any measure, but I think a lot

564
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: of brands now put together these dinners where you'll go

565
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: on like fashion websites or you'll go on eat and

566
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: you'll see like this brand hosted this dinner, and you'll

567
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: see these ultra glamorous photos, ultra glamorous people eating ultra

568
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: glamorous food. We love those. But what I wanted to

569
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: try and achieve with the Chaos Dinner was the idea

570
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: of like what if like the ultra glamorous were like

571
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: a third of the population of the dinner, and what

572
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: if we found figures And you know, we're continuously building

573
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: it out, but the idea is just that Hollywood and

574
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: beyond Hollywood is just there are lots of fascinating people

575
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: in this world. I mean, you've had a lot of

576
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: fascinating people on this podcast, for instance, and what happens

577
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: when you put them on a room together? And in

578
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: the beginning, we envisioned it as like you know, just

579
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: a dinner, like a gathering, but then we're like, well,

580
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: what happens if they're the idea of like the last supper,

581
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: that one long table, And so that became really important

582
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: to me. I don't think the Chaos dinner is like

583
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: a wildly original concept by any measure. It's like getting

584
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: people together for a dinner. But what we really have

585
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: a lot of fun with is the guest list and

586
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: then who sits where is really fun, But the idea

587
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: of just like in your head, you're like, wow, what

588
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: would happen if like this really super serious actor sat

589
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: next to this reality TV star known for throwing drinks

590
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: at her co stars? What would that create? And the

591
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: idea and the hope is always you know, we have

592
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: photos at the beginning and all of that, but like

593
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: basically once we get out the way of the like

594
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: taking the photos and that the Hollywood part of it,

595
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: and what happens when we sort of as I like

596
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: to say, like we lowered the lines and we all

597
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: just kick it. That's sort of the fun. Yeah, And

598
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: what I'm really proud of is like they go late.

599
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: People say, people say, people have Yeah, people like.

600
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: To go home nine thirty time. For bed.

601
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's sort of my pride. But so yeah,

602
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: we are currently iterating around the fourth one.

603
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: Okay, good, No. I love that idea because the expectation

604
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: is that you're going to be in a situation where

605
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: there are various types of people, right, they do various things.

606
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: As opposed to a dinner that's more like, you know,

607
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: He's like, you sit next to someone, okay, you can,

608
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: and if you're next to someone who you don't know

609
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: or whomever, you know, you can be met with gold shoulder.

610
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: You can, you know, And it's like I would you know,

611
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: but or you don't know or you know. People aren't

612
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: willing to sort of be hey, I'm I'm sorry, I

613
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: don't know, tell me about yourself. Yeah, I mean, and

614
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: starting the even just started the conversation that way that

615
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: people are open to that, And I think that's a

616
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: great idea.

617
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: But to your point, it's like it's a it's bold

618
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: to go to a place because this is the other

619
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: thing about the chast Dinners is we don't allow plus ones.

620
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: And Hollywood types love a plus one, do they ever?

621
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: And so there's a big negotiation that has to happen,

622
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: and it's easier now that we have three case studies,

623
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: but in the beginning, especially that first one to be

624
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: able to say, will you come to this dinner in

625
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: this location, no husband or wife, no publicist, no glam

626
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: just you, And they're like, well what is this? And

627
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: you're like you kind of just have to trust. But

628
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: there's something magnificent that happens. I think because there's a

629
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: certain ilk of famous person who lives life with sort

630
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: of a supporting cast with them at all times, and

631
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: I like the idea of what happens when that's removed.

632
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: And it's not always successful. Sometimes it's like that supporting

633
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: cast helps uplift the star. But in a lot of

634
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: instances it can be really fun when it's just a

635
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: room gathered full of people, all of whom want to

636
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: be there. That's the other really important thing. I used

637
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: to think, Oh, I want this person because they're going

638
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: to make the guest list sound really cool. You need people,

639
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: and this is true of the Chaos Dinner, but I

640
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: think it's true of life too, and especially work. You

641
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: need people that want to be in the room. If

642
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: they don't want to be in the room, if they're

643
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: there for quote unquote added value, I could do without. Yeah, yeah,

644
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: we'll find alternative value.

645
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, We're gonna take a moment, and then when we

646
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: come back, we're gonna play a game. Okay, it's called who.

647
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: Evan said that I'm gonna read some famous lines from

648
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: some of your favorite shows, as well as some notable

649
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: pop culture moment.

650
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I'll be really good at it.

651
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think see. So it's what are we even doing?

652
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: Who Evan said that our grammar is challenged. Yeah, show

653
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: you're impressing me. Okay, good, So when we come back,

654
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: all right, this is the segment that I designed called

655
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: who Evan said that we're gonna do multiple choice. You

656
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: have to guess what it's from? What show it's from? Forever?

657
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: Answer you get right? You get a metal fantastic wow, real.

658
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: Yes, real, plastic gold.

659
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: It is your time to claim your title as champion

660
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: of pop culture.

661
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: Evan is now put on a boxer's I guess a

662
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: robe that is gold and black, beautiful colors, and you

663
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: have boxing gloves on.

664
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: So I'm giving Sylvester Stone.

665
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: You're giving Sylvester s alone.

666
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: Never had the comparison.

667
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: I have a a referees shirt and whistle, and of

668
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: course the belt which begins to each round and we're

669
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 3: ready to go. All right, this is television. The quote

670
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: is I like my money where I can see it

671
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: hanging in my closet.

672
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to give me the multiple choice?

673
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: I can, yeah? Or do do you feel like? Are

674
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: you feel confident?

675
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: I do? Oh it's from a show that you've that

676
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: would be Kerry Bradshaw one.

677
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 3: Very good, Oh my god, absolutely correct. I don't know

678
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: if I should blow the whistle or give the medal,

679
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 3: but here's the medal. I'm gonna set it right here,

680
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: all right. I want to put it right here on

681
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: the on the counter. One medal, you have one, all right?

682
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: This is from pop culture.

683
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Should a man have a podcast? No culture? Should a

684
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: man have a podcast?

685
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: See Julia Louis Dreyfus.

686
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: I don't even have to give you the multiple choices.

687
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: You are proving yourself as the king of all media.

688
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: That's great. And that is another. We're gonna run out

689
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: of metals, ladies and gentlemen. That one's tied up.

690
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: So it's like, I don't know if it's like a sickness.

691
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: It's like, why does that stay in my head?

692
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: Well, they're memorable, right, I mean they're like, yeah, there

693
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: we go, two medals. Third question from television, Yes, I

694
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: burnt down your house, you sleazy little whore. I can

695
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: give you the three on these three Desperate Housewives eighty Girls,

696
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: three White Lotus.

697
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's Desperate Housewives. I apologize for not coming

698
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: to it sooner, but it would be very funny if

699
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: that was from girls.

700
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: Ah well said that almost deserves two metals.

701
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: Have you girls?

702
00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: I have none.

703
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: I'd be curious for your take on check it out. Yeah, okay,

704
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: it's really good.

705
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good, I will check it out. Fourth question

706
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: pop culture To everyone who couldn't stand me this year,

707
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: stay tuned because next year gonna be worse.

708
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: That would be Whoopy Goldberg on Instagram on December thirtieth,

709
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three.

710
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

711
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: If it were in less capable hands, the quote would

712
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: just be like, if you couldn't stand me last year,

713
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: get ready, I'm gonna be back.

714
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

715
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: But Whoopy, in true Whoopy fashion, kicks it up a notch.

716
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: No, no, no, she has her own language, kind of

717
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: as we were talking earlier. Yeah, Buffy speak. Yeah, she's

718
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: got Whoopy speak. Next question TV.

719
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 3: I think I may be the voice of my generation,

720
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: or at least a voice of a generation.

721
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: That would be Season one, episode one, the final scene

722
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: from Girls.

723
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: Oh My Goodness six For extra credit the person who

724
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: said it.

725
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: That would be Hannah Horvath.

726
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: Very good, first and last name. I just had Hannah.

727
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: Oh my God. All right, that's another medal.

728
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: I should clarify it's the penultimate scene because she then

729
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: wakes up at the hotel of her parents hotel the

730
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: next morning, So the penultimate scene from the.

731
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: Pilot Oh my God. And finally, last question pop culture.

732
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: Nobody told me Sex and the City was this good.

733
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm pissed.

734
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: That would be Meghan the Stallion appearing on the Jimmy

735
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: Fallon Show The Tonight Show.

736
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: Unbelievable, unbelievable, truly a sweep. I feel bad. I think

737
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: I did. I forgot to give you one. I feel

738
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: like I wish I could have. I wish I could

739
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: have read your choices. They were one Meghan the Stallion,

740
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 1: which you got right? Two Mother Teresa, Uh huh?

741
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 2: Who I think would have liked Sex in the City.

742
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: I think she would have too.

743
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: Kate Middleton verdicts out on her Yeah, whether she would

744
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: have liked I don't know she would have liked that.

745
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: I think she would have. I think Kate Middleton would

746
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: have liked Bridget my Hands character Natasha.

747
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with you.

748
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: Oh hey, can I ask you one last question?

749
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: Yes, of course.

750
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: And you might have talked about this before. So did

751
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: you watch in.

752
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: Just like that, just the beginning, just the first few

753
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: episodes actually, and then you just were like I kind

754
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: of was like, ugh, I expected maybe more light hearted.

755
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I was feeling like it

756
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 1: was going to be kind of fun and bouncing. It wasn't.

757
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: Were you ever hoping for a phone call or was

758
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 2: there ever a phone call about the consideration?

759
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: There was an inquiry, Yes, there was an inquiry. I

760
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: thought that their idea, their suggestion was kind of one note.

761
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: When I first joined the show, it was meant to

762
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: be a pretty short arc for me, and I ended

763
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: up staying for two years, and I felt like Christina

764
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: and I really you know, there was some funny stuff,

765
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: very you know, the jug stuff all that was very funny,

766
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: but there was also some serious stuff that went on.

767
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: And I think the way we ended it when I returned.

768
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: There was a real bittersweet quality to it, really a

769
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: real sense of loss, like if only could have worked out.

770
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: So I was hoping that when that if and when

771
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: it came, and it did come, I said that there

772
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: would be like a little more depth, I think to it.

773
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: So I was coming at it from a place of

774
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: I would love to return, but I would like to

775
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: return in a way that was I don't know that

776
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: it sort of honored what had gone on before as

777
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: opposed to being kind of put back into some of

778
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: the one episode different types of guys that people go through,

779
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: and I was.

780
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: Like, that's race, not that, and then last but not Lea's.

781
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: Did you have any kind of feelings as Kyle watching

782
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: the character of Charlotte move on to Harry. Was it

783
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: difficult for you at all? Just in the way that

784
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 2: I imagine as an actor, you have a connection to your character.

785
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: You got to be rooting for your character, right and

786
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: you were watching Charlotte go on finding love with her

787
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: divorce lawyer and having that be her endgame.

788
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I felt more like she had found

789
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: someone that again sort of in the same way that

790
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: she found me. She thought I was this one thing

791
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: I looked a certain way, but in fact I was

792
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: damaged goods. You know, Harry looks a different way, but

793
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: it's actually very very inside, is just a gem. And

794
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she's found what she what she loves.

795
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: So I was detached. I think, yeah, I was happy,

796
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: more happy for her that she found someone that she

797
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: could really that appreciated her, and you know, they got together.

798
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 2: So and did you finish watching the series?

799
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: I did not.

800
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I find this so often with actors. When they're

801
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: no longer a part of shows, they stop watching them.

802
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, I mean, I didn't. I don't know

803
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: if I watched every episode that I was in either,

804
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: so fair not.

805
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: I understand, you know what. I used to have this

806
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: desire for act again, for actors to be fans of

807
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: the thing that I'm that I love so much, and

808
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: these days I'm sort of like, you moved on. You

809
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: have other things to do. It's our job as the

810
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: fans to love these things. We don't need you to

811
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: love them.

812
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, nice not saying you didn't know. I did.

813
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: I did, but as well, but I think that and

814
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: for us to understand his actors, hey, this is you know.

815
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's also the fan appreciating the fans. There's

816
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: a crazy film that I love, The three most Sketchier's

817
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: foremost Skitziers, the old one, you know, the Michael Yorke

818
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: and Oliver Reid and.

819
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: Got me kind of through college. You know, I'd watch

820
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: them and I was, you know, you go off and

821
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: just forget about work for a while and enjoy these

822
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: kind of swashbuckling movies. And there was a behind the

823
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: scenes they did and I didn't know existed, and I

824
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: came across it, you know, it's been ten years ago,

825
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: and I sat and I was so because I loved

826
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: the movie so much, and I was so charmed by

827
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: just listening to the stories that they would relate. And

828
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: I said, from that point on, I said, you know,

829
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to do any of the you know kind

830
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: of the behind the scenes that they do now, the

831
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: extra you know, extra footage whatever, and talk about the show,

832
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: because I know there are people out there that are

833
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: going to respond exactly the way I responded to something

834
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: that I was a fan of. And I said, that's important.

835
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: But it's interesting. It's like you came to it from

836
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: the perspective of being at once on the receiving end

837
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: and then realizing.

838
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: That, yeah, how important it was.

839
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of cool.

840
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah it was cool. I said, oh wow, I get it, like.

841
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: You're doing it because you know it's meaningful for a

842
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: certain subset of consumer.

843
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we're important. So what's next for you? What's

844
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: going on? You just mentioned a couple of things about.

845
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 2: I'm currently developing, in various stages, a reality competition show.

846
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: And so I'm a huge no, no, I don't know. No,

847
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: I'm a huge, huge Survivor fan. I have a Survivor

848
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: podcast and like that deep in and I've just been

849
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: looking at, you know, the popularity of shows like The

850
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: Traders and Squid Game and all that, and it's like, hmmm,

851
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm really fascinated by that world, and I was like,

852
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 2: what if I could develop something. So I've been working

853
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: with a producer and we've been kind of tinkering at

854
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 2: the game design because you've got to have strong game design.

855
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. That's intriguing, and I

856
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: think you are the perfect person to do this. This

857
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: is yeah, because you understand the psychology.

858
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: I like it. I like that in between in between

859
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: reality and scripted, and I think the traders kind of

860
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 2: get to this a little bit. But it's like, if

861
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 2: you put real people in pre orchestrated circumstances, how can

862
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: you sort of drive plot through reality with a little

863
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 2: bit of like the godlike complex.

864
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, no, I think you understand the structure. That's great, Okay,

865
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm excited to thanks. Hopefully it comes to fruition. Okay,

866
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: that's all. We have time today on what are we

867
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: even doing? Do we decide? Do we figure out what

868
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: are we even doing? I guess a little bit. Yeah,

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00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: but we still have you know.

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00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, inconclusive, but we've we've we're gravitating towards we have

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Speaker 2: some concept we have some concepts. Yeah, we'll come around

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Speaker 2: to something.

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00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, I agree. It's been a pleasure ever.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you. I think you should

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00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: keep this on song. By the way, I was hoping.

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00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: I could thank you. I'll wear the song you please.

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Speaker 1: It's cold outside. Those are nice mittens there are.

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00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: What are We Even Doing is a production of iHeartMedia

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00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: and the Elvis Duran podcast network, hosted by me Kyle

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00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: McLachlin and created and produced by Full Picture Productions Yay,

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00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: featuring music by Yata and artwork by Danica Robinson. For

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00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 3: more information about the podcast, please visit our Instagram and

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00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: TikTok at wawed with Kyle. Please rate, review, and subscribe

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00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: to What Are We Even Doing on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

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00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 3: or anywhere you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Exclamation points