1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Za Nemntonvedos. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:33,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. Today 6 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: we have another special candid conversation recorded live here at 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: the Aspen Ideas Festival. Maybe you can hear the Aspen 8 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: trees and streams behind me where I'm sitting down with 9 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: some of the world's foremost leaders, innovators, and creators. Today 10 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: is my conversation with Zanni Minton Bedos, editor in chief 11 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: of The Economist. I'm so excited she Pivots as one 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: of the inaugural audio first media company to partner with 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: the festival. It was invigorating to be among brilliant leaders 14 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: and thinkers from around the globe to discuss and hear 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: the ideas that'll shape tomorrow and help us understand today. 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: Over the next few weeks, you'll hear live candid conversations 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: from inspiring women recorded here at the festival, from geopolitical issues, 18 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: to economic issues, to cultural issues and beyond. Each interview 19 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: connects to the larger cultural moment we're in, and of course, 20 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: interreeves their personal lives. I hope you walk away feeling 21 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: as inspired and determined as I did to continue to 22 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: share our stories and experiences to change the cultural landscape 23 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:50,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: for a better tomorrow. Let's jump right in. So I'm 24 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: here at the Aspen Ideas Festival with Zanni minten Bedos, 25 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: editor in chief of the Economist, who has led the 26 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: iconic and highly respected publication for over ten years. There 27 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: is always one in my house. As I just told you, 28 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm excited to chat with her about her pivot into 29 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: the world of journalism and the role that she plays 30 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: now in the global economic conversation. 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Welcome, Zanni, thank you for having me. It's great to 32 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:11,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: be here. 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm so glad that you made it here to this 34 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: conversation after your wild bike ride this morning. 35 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: That was I almost didn't make it here to the 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Ideas Festival. I was staying with some friends outside of 37 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: town and I thought it would be fun to bike in, 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I put into Google Maps, you know Aspen meadows, 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and of course it being a bike, it took me 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: on a proper bike trail, so there. I was kind 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of in my going to be on stage outfit, goring 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: along on this bike trail and it's hot, as you know, 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:36,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: but I made it. 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah yeah, ready, ready to comment on tariffs at any moment, 45 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: in a perfect suit to do it. It's the fun 46 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: part of the unknown of the Aspen Ideas Festival. 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,839 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So we're going to go on chronologic order. Let's go back. 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:49,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: You grew up on a farm. 49 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I did grow up on a farm. I grew up 50 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: on a farm in Shropshire, which is on the Welsh border, 51 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in rural England, on a farm that's been in my 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: father's family for generations. Mixed farm. We were talking about agriculture. 53 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Your husband has a farm, but we had sheep, we 54 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had cattle, we had wheat, barley, oats, and it was 55 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: an amazing place to grow up, very rural and very 56 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: beautiful and a kind of real sense of root. But 57 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: what's interesting about my I guess my upbringing is that 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: my mum is German, which is not what you would 59 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: expect from somebody who grew up in rural England. And 60 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: she met my dad because she was in ou Pair 61 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the sixties and they met and then he was 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the army and he met her again in Germany 63 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and had a world with romance, and she came to 64 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: rural England. But because I was the eldest, her English 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: actually wasn't so great. So German is my first language, 66 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and I grew up bilingual, and I actually think that 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was a sort of big part of who I am, 68 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: because I grew up speaking two languages. Always loved languages, 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and my parents are big to holiday every year as 70 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we would go and see my grandmother in Germany. She 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: lived in the south of Germany. And when I was 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in second grade, so seven, doing second and fifth grade, 73 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: my parents did something that when I became a parent, 74 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I thought was truly extraordinary. So they sent me to 75 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: spend between Christmas and Easter with my grandmother and I 76 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: went to school in Germany. And I went to the 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: local elementary school in Germany for two and a half 78 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: three months and was just part of the class because 79 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went there several years in a row, I had 80 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: friends there and so I had this kind of life 81 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in Germany for a few months of the year, and 82 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: then I went back to my local primary school in England, 83 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,279 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and that from that, I think came a sort of 84 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: life long love of travel and a lifelong love of 85 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,279 Zanny Minton Beddoes: understanding different countries. And I always knew I wanted to 86 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: live and work outside the UK. What about it drew you? 87 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I think seeing that from a very early age that 88 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: there was such a different life than what I had 89 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in rural Shropshire because my grandmother lived in a suburb 90 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of not a huge town, but on a lake in 91 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a suburb of a town, and it was just a 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: quite completely different lifetime. I would go off and the 93 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: school was very different, and my friends were very different, 94 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and it was a sort of sense, I think, to 95 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have a sort of seven eight that you could kind 96 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of in different ecosystems if you will. I mean, I 97 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,239 Zanny Minton Beddoes: didn't think of it like that then, but it would. 98 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It was definitely the beginning of I was determined to 99 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: learn lots of languages, and I was determined to travel. 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: The fields that you're in now, in economics, in journalism, 101 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: in worldwide perspective are very intellectual fields. Did you see 102 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,599 Emily Tisch Sussman: seeds of that in your childhood or when did that 103 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: turn on for you? 104 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Very early on, I knew I wanted to experience other places. 105 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I wanted to go to lots of different I knew 106 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I didn't want to just live and work in England. 107 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: In fact, when I was, you know, six or seven eight, 108 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: maybe people would say, well, you know, as you ask kids, 109 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:35,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: what do you what do you want to be when 110 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you grow up? And I said, I want to be 111 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a flight attendant because it was the only thing I 112 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: could think of that involved traveling to lots of places. 113 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:42,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Then I was I grew a bit older, and I thought, 114 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: maybe be something like a diplomat, you know i'd want. 115 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: But I always knew I wanted to be in lots 116 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of different places, and I learned everyone learned French in 117 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: English in England. But I was incredibly lucky. At secondary school, 118 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went to a boarding school about an hour from 119 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: my parents, which was not a neither particularly academic school, 120 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:00,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: but it was it was a great school. I liked it, 121 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and as it happens, we had a teacher there who 122 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was an elderly gentleman who had been a baron in all. 123 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: His family was an ennobled family in the former Soviet Union, 124 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and he had moved them to Wales and he taught Russian. 125 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And that was another kind of completely weird thing to 126 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: how why on earth would you be able to learn 127 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Russian in the school in the middle of nowhere in England. 128 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:22,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: But I did. 129 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I learned Russian and from that decided I applied to 130 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: university and I was I guess I was reasonably intelligent. 131 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So I my school which had they said you should 132 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: apply to Oxford. So I applied to Oxford and managed 133 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to get in, and then wanted to travel before I 134 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: did that, So it took a year out and persuaded 135 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: my father that I should be allowed to go traveling. 136 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And my friend's quite traditional and he said, well, you 137 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: need to be able to have some skills so that 138 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you can earn some money. If you're traveling, you need 139 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to raise the money to go. So I worked for 140 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: six months in various odd jobs, but the contract was 141 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that I needed to learn to type and I needed 142 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to learn to cook, which shows you how wonderfully old 143 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:00,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fashion he was. 144 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: So I did the only skills one would need, the 145 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: only skills that a young woman would need. 146 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: But actually actually it was really quite useful because I 147 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: learned to touch type. In those days, I had a 148 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: month's crash course and you had to pass this course. 149 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It was at some very shady typing school in London. 150 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: You had to do sixty words a minute for five 151 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: minutes with fewer than five mistakes, and then you've got 152 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the diploma. And if you've got the diploma, you could 153 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: become what was called a temp which was a temporary typist. 154 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And so my first job, very first job, was in 155 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the typing pool at the Crown Court in sovo In, London, 156 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and from which I actually got fired, which was a 157 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: little embarrassing. On my fourth day I went, I went 158 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: out to lunch with a boyfriend or a Wanabe boyfriend, 159 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and we came back. I came back twenty minutes late, 160 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and that was it. I got fired. But anyway, this 161 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I raised the money and then with those skills, 162 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went traveling and I spent seven I went to 163 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:51,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Hong Kong, I went to Australia. I went to New 164 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Zealand and came back via La the West Coast, and 165 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that was my first taste of the US, and I 166 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: remember then completely loving the US and went to university, 167 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: did a bunch of traveling. Through university. In those days, 168 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you didn't have to do things like internships, and so 169 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: every vacation I would go and earn the money and 170 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: then I would go traveling and then at the end 171 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of my I guess my third year, I really didn't 172 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: know what to do. I applied for the Foreign Office. 173 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: The diplomat thing was still there, so I applied for that. 174 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: But I also had a professor who she was an 175 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: amazing tutor, and she said, there's a thing called the 176 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Kennedy scholarshis you should apply for them. And the Kennedy 177 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Scholarship is kind of like a reserve reverse road scholarship. 178 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It's a scholarship that British young people couldn't go to Harvard. 179 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And amazingly I got one and went off to Harvard. 180 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And that was the kind of life changing moment. Oh, 181 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a life changing how well, first off, going to university 182 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the US was just going to be in the US. 183 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: This was nineteen eighty nine. Was an amazing experience. I 184 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: went with a friend and I didn't know her that 185 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,079 Zanny Minton Beddoes: well before we went, but she and I were the 186 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: same year at Oxford, and we rented an apartment, very 187 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: small apartment in Summerville, which is not far from Harvard, 188 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and we then were suddenly thrown into a marriage graduate school, 189 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: which is you know, I was at the Kennedy School, 190 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: which is an amazing, credible experience, people from all over 191 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the world, a whole different way of learning. So that 192 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was really exciting. Was the first time I had sort 193 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of seen how an American educational system worked. I remember 194 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: just being amazed by everything. And then at the end 195 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of that year, again I was wondering what should I do. 196 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And then internships are very important because Americans even then 197 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: toook internships very seriously. And I again didn't know what 198 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to do until someone said to me, there is a 199 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: professor Jeffrey Sachs who was at the Economics Department, is 200 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: taking some interns to Poland. This was nineteen ninety, just 201 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: after the Berlin War had fallen to work in the 202 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,559 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Ministry of Finance as part of a group for the 203 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: reformist finance minister for the first post communist government. And 204 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: he said, why don't you this friend of Mineset, why 205 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: don't you go and see if you can get a 206 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: part of this group. And I went to Professor Sax's 207 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: office hours knocked on the door and he said, well, 208 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: actually I got my interns. It's full. And I then 209 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I was I said, okay, I'll try my pitch and 210 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I said, well, you know, I Poland has a big 211 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: agricultural sector. And I know all about agriculture because I 212 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: grew up on a farm. And Polish is kind of 213 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a bit like Russian and a bit like German, and 214 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I speak Russian and German, and so I think you 215 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: should take me. And anyway, the kind of I guess 216 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Kutzpo was enough and he took me. And that 217 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was actually the really life changing thing going to work 218 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in Poland in the summer of nineteen ninety, which was 219 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: less than a year after the war came down as 220 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this country moved from communism to capitalism, and the government 221 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of the finance minister was called Lesheg Basovich, and he 222 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was leading this economic reform program which is called shock therapy. 223 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And what was meant by shock therapy is that they 224 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: essentially lifted all price controls, lifted all tariffs, freed up 225 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the economy kind of almost overnight, and so you really 226 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: saw free markets in action. And when I went there, 227 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Poland was very heavily bombed during the war, so it's not, 228 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at least wasn't then the world's most beautiful city. And 229 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the kind of along the main street were these 230 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,959 Zanny Minton Beddoes: big shops that were the old Soviet era shops, which 231 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: essentially were very drab and they had long, long shelves 232 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,079 Zanny Minton Beddoes: either nothing on or you know, exactly the same tin 233 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of piltures kind of all along the shelf. It was 234 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a perfect example of what you imagined the command economy 235 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of communist economy to be like. But outside on the pavement, 236 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: on the sidewalk, as you would say, were stall after 237 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: stall of people who had driven in their Soviet made 238 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: cars to Berlin, which is not very far from Poland, 239 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: because all prices had been freed and these were traders 240 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and they'd gone and they'd bought bananas, oranges, fresh food, 241 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: women's underwear, everything that they knew people actually wanted to buy, 242 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and were setting up shops. And this one was setting 243 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up stalls on the pavement. And for me, I still 244 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: can kind of visualize it very powerfully. It was a 245 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: real sense of this is what happens when you free 246 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up prices, this is what happens when you free markets. 247 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And I had been studying economics and I thought, my god, 248 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this is what happens, and that was a just a 249 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: really pivotal moment. I can see what happens when you 250 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: reform an economy and I can see what happens when 251 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: capitalist forces start stirring. And so I took a semester off. 252 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I worked for Jeff Sax and his team for you know, 253 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that semester that I took off, and I was I 254 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: moved from the Ministry of Finance to what was called 255 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Ministry of Foreign Economic Cooperation and was the sort 256 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of assistant speech writer to the minister. And they were 257 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: then the polls were negotiating a kind of agreement with 258 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the European Union, the new Polish government, and so I 259 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: worked on that and I helped them, and then I 260 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: went back and finished my degree. But that kind of 261 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: made me think, I want to I want to use, 262 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you know, what I've learned about economics to work in 263 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: economic policy, because I could see what happened. And I 264 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: think it also all I probably didn't realize all the time. 265 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It reinforced that sense of the power of markets, the 266 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: power of freedom, the power of the individual, which you 267 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: know is really what underpins the economist, right. I mean, 268 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we are that's what we stand for. And I feel 269 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it very very viscerally, and I think it comes from 270 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that experience. And when I look back now, you know, 271 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: whatever it is along many decades later, that moment after 272 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Berlin wilfell with the collapse of communism was the 273 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: sort of beginning really of an arc and an era 274 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: which is sort of now coming to an end, because 275 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it was an era of taris coming down, economies opening up, 276 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: emerging markets, globalization, all the things that are now in 277 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the debate in this country seen as often bad words. 278 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: That era started at the beginning of my career, and 279 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I feel it's very striking that now as i'm 280 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: sort of, you know, towards the et monomic and not 281 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at the end of my career, but towards further into it, 282 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that all of those things that I felt very visceral 283 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and I still feel very viscerally and now much more challenged. 284 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: You ended up working over the next couple of years 285 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: in macroeconomic programs in Africa and Central and Eastern Europe, 286 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: so you really went to very many any different countries, 287 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: in different and different regions that were in different phases 288 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: of economic growth. Were you looking for more opportunities to 289 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: learn to build upon it, or did you think that 290 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: you like, this is now my career and I'm going 291 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: to pull the strings, so to speak. 292 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So I knew I wanted to work in economic policy. 293 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went back from poland finished my degree, then went 294 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to work actually in Ukraine for a couple of months. 295 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I wrote, I co wrote, and my only academic paper 296 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: published in a very minor journal. Though my co author 297 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: won a Nobel Prize. But there's nothing to do with me. 298 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: But that was we were in Kiev and we were 299 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: looking at how Ukrainian state farms were being privatized or 300 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: were being broken up. And it was it was with 301 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Simon Johnson, who subsequently worked won the Nobel Prize. He 302 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was in Cambridge. I was doing the field work, and 303 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went out and we wrote a questionnaire and I 304 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: basically went to I think it was almost one hundred 305 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of these state farms and asked these questions, and they 306 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: who is this woman in her early twenties. These were 307 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: these were rural Soviet type communist state farm directors, like, 308 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: who the heck is this woman coming? So they, first 309 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of all, they wud insist that I drank loads of 310 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: either vodka or there's other thing, this other drink which 311 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: is like firewater even worse. And often I was the 312 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: first European who'd been in these places and actually in 313 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: one place. It was since the Germans coming east during 314 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the war. I mean it was it was quite It 315 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was quite striking going to these places. 316 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Feel like, let me switch to my Russian and not 317 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: my German yet, yeah, because at that point. 318 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It was actually flying this big Russian. I mean I 319 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: did use my Russian. Then you wouldn't do that now, 320 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: but I did. And that was a sort of it 321 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was an interview. I wrote this paper, but then I 322 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: thought I want to carry on doing economic policy, and 323 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I had when I went back finished my in my 324 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: last semester, I was, you know, everyone at graduate school 325 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was applying for their postgraduate school work, and I kind 326 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of then thought I better apply to what everybody else 327 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: does too. So I applied for consulting jobs, and I 328 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: applied for investment banks, and I applied to the IMS 329 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and the IMA, being the sort of prime international fireman, 330 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: if you will, economic fireman. And I got a job 331 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at the IMF, but I turned it down to go 332 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to accept a job at Goldman Sachs. And then that 333 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was in January February. I was going to start in 334 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: gold six in the summer went to Ukraine and then 335 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: suddenly thought what am I doing? Why am I going 336 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to Wall Street when I could actually really learn about 337 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: economic policy? And so I then said, actually, wasn't going 338 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:22,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to go to Goldman Sacks told him I wasn't coming, 339 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and grolled and went back to the IMF and said, 340 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: can I actually come after all? And I had originally 341 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: been going to work for them on post Soviet countries, 342 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and they said, yes you can, but you're going to 343 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have to work on West Africa. You'll have to work 344 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the Africa department. So I spent a year working 345 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: on Marley and Senegal, which had absolutely not been my plan. 346 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: This is a very long answer to your question. But 347 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it's not like I sat and I must go and 348 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: learn about West Africa. I was completely I was told 349 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I was working there, but that was fascinating. It was 350 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the first time I'd been in Zimbabwe briefly, but I 351 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: hadn't really didn't know Africa at all, and worked on 352 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: these two countries. Must have gone five or six times. 353 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: That was, I mean, real poverty. Bamaco, the capital of 354 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Marley then, had really only one paved road which went 355 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: from the airport to the hotel and the main hotel 356 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and to the presidential palace. And we were there a 357 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: team of us from the IMF, and we would go 358 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: several times a year trying to work out what the 359 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: country's balance of payments was, where the economy wasn't, how 360 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: much foreign assistance they needed, and how it would all 361 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: add up. And I learned a ton if it was 362 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: an amazing training. I learned the mechanics of how you 363 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: work out economic policy and the mechanics of how you 364 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: build a balance of payments, all of those sort of 365 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that was back in the day of Excel spreadsheets. But 366 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: hours and hours and hours with these things. But I 367 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: realized after a couple of years there that it's a 368 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: big bureaucracy. It's a big international bureaucracy, full of incredibly 369 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: talented people. But I just realized that I wasn't cut 370 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: out for working in a big institutional bureaucracy. And it 371 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was one of those eingsine you're at a certain grade, 372 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:54,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and you know that if you've worked very hard and 373 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very well, in five years time, you will be at 374 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this grade, and in ten years time it will be 375 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at this grade. And I guess I was a sort 376 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of restless young person in a hurry, and I just 377 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I can't, you know, and the youngest person on the 378 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: team never says in a thing, and then you know 379 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it was. It was very formal but incredibly incredibly talented people. 380 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So I just after I finished the sort of it's 381 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: called the Economist program, it was a two year training program, 382 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I decided that actually this was not for me. Almost 383 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: went back into investment banking, decided not to again, and 384 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: then thought, well, maybe actually what I would really like 385 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to do is economic journalism, because what I liked most 386 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: about when I was in both in West Africa for 387 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the IMF and there on my second year, I worked 388 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in Kyrgystan, which was then, you know, a country in 389 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Central Asia, again, a new country. We were building its 390 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: balance of payments, building all of the sort of statistical 391 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: infrastructure for the country, and I realized that although I 392 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was okay at the spreadsheets, I was not a No 393 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: one would ever call me a great model builder. I 394 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was okay at it, but what I was what I 395 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: liked doing, was talking to all of the officials, figuring 396 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: out what was going on and then kind of writing 397 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,639 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up what had happened. And the IMF has a particular jargon, 398 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so it was not the world's most beautiful English, but 399 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I would write this up, and I was reasonably good 400 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at doing that. And then I actually Economic Joermalism would 401 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: be interesting. And I'd done student journalism at Oxford. I 402 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: edited the student magazine, so I can write. So I 403 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: went to applied to the Economists, and applied to the 404 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Financial Times, and went to the Economist, and you know, 405 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: nearly thirty years later here I am. So that's the 406 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: positive history. 407 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: Did you have any mentors, advisors, anyone talking you through. 408 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean, it's a fairly large decision. 409 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:37,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So I've had lots of incredible opportunities, like you know, 410 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the wonderful Baron Fonda Parlan who was my Russian teacher, 411 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: or Mary McCaulay, who was my wonderful professor at Oxford, 412 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: who said, should really apply for this scholarship. I didn't 413 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have anyone where I sort of thought about the decision 414 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I had. In fact, I had a friend who talked 415 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: me out of going to dog Goldman Sacks and going 416 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:53,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to the IMATH, who said to me, you know, you 417 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: can always go to gold with sex. You'll never go 418 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to the IMF if we don't go now. But it 419 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was not it wasn't a sort of I didn't have 420 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a a mentor in the sense of a single person 421 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: who had helped me all the way through. But I've 422 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: always you know, when people ask me, now, what advice, 423 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we must ask you this, What advice do you give 424 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a younger person? I always say the same thing, and 425 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I really mean it, which is just grab every opportunity 426 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: You'll almost the only thing you will regret is something 427 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you don't do. That's basically my philosophy. The only thing 428 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I regret is things that I don't do. I now 429 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: think I should have gone to work on Wall Street 430 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: for a couple of years. It would have been really 431 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: interesting to have done that, and I never did do it, 432 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And so I was optimizing options. So I would always 433 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: say I'm going to do something because it will maximize 434 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the options of what I can do later on. I 435 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: want to close off anything. I could never work out 436 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: what I wanted to be, so I just wanted to 437 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: make sure I could keep as many possible options going, 438 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and that was why I ended up taking. So I 439 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: never I didn't sit and say I want to be 440 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a journalist, although I had done student journalism, but I 441 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,959 Zanny Minton Beddoes: rended up there through this process of keeping options open. 442 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:16,919 Emily Tisch Sussman: Stay tuned for more of Zenny after the break, Do 443 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: you remember what some of the opportunities were that you 444 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: grabbed when you first got into the newsroom. 445 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So when ized to join The Economist, I was hired 446 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: by the the then editor to I was put in 447 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the foreign department because he was a man who believed 448 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: as a rigorous economics and I was, by the stands 449 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of journalism. Because I had some economics training, I was 450 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: considered sort of rigorous and quantitative. So I joined the 451 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Foreign department, which was run by lifelong foreign correspondent types 452 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: who had beautiful, elegant pros but were probably not so 453 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: focused on looking at spreadsheets. And so I went in 454 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: as the kind of wantku looked at spreadsheets and learned 455 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: how to write, which was My colleagues at the Economist 456 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: are include some just extraordinarily good writers. And I'm I mean, 457 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I'm a good writer, but I know one would ever 458 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: call me a great writer, least of all me, And 459 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I learned. I learned that first of all, and 460 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that was a that was a kind of a sort 461 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of tough training, you realize, particularly when you came when 462 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I came to the IMF, which is a wonderful institution, 463 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: will never be known for its pros, and so I 464 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: arrived writing this sort of slightly wooden jargon that one 465 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had to learn how to write. And there again I 466 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had the kind of Okay, I'm going to grab every opportunity. 467 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And I the editor who is called former editors called 468 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,399 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Bill Emmett, created a new job for me, which was 469 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Emerging Markets correspondent, and we hadn't had one before, and 470 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I basically could write my own job description. And 471 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so I would think, where's an interesting country that I'd 472 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: like to go and understand how its economy works. So 473 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I remember going to Chile early on and spending a 474 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,199 Zanny Minton Beddoes: week there and then came back and wrote quite a 475 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: long article about it, and I thought, this is actually 476 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: sort of half of It's exactly what I used to 477 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: do at the IMF. Go to a country, meet all 478 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,399 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the policy makers, because the economist is an amazing kind of 479 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: calling card. So I was then in my whatever late twenties, 480 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and you know, I'd see the Foreign minister, and i'd 481 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,119 Zanny Minton Beddoes: see the central bank governor because they care about the economist, 482 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and then I'd come back. And if had I been 483 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at the IMF, I would have come back being the 484 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: junior member of a team that would have written a 485 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: long report, But as a journalist, I came back and 486 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I wrote an article. I went to the Czech Republic, 487 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went all over the place, and that the most interesting. 488 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Relatively early on, I think it was ninety four, maybe 489 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the editor said to me, do you want to go 490 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and write a special report which was a long twelve 491 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fourteen thousand word article on the Caspian, the Caucusus and 492 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Caspian because at that point there was a lot 493 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of oil and gas. Then there was quite a lot 494 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,399 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of excitement about it, and I thought, so, why not 495 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so and you got six weeks to do this, And 496 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:53,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I went on this trip from Georgia Azerbay, John took Menistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, 497 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and just went through all these extraordinary places and then 498 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: wrote a fourteen thousand word piece on what they came. 499 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And that was I remember thinking that this is people 500 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: pay me to do this. It's amazing. Did it ever 501 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: feel like a little unsafe to be traveling alone as 502 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a woman in these developing nations? 503 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: The only time I've ever felt seriously unsafe is was 504 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: actually before I became a journalist, when I was still 505 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,199 Zanny Minton Beddoes: actually an undergraduate. I was at Oxford and I one 506 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of the summers. There used to be a visa you 507 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: could get and it may still exist to work in 508 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the United States as a student. So I was called Bunach, 509 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I remember it. And I got this visa and I 510 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: came over to the US. It was nineteen eighty eight 511 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and I worked in New Orleans, what was it called 512 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Mediterranean Cafe on Decatur Street as a waitress, and 513 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that was an amazing month to earn the money to 514 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: then go on traveling. And it was the It was 515 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a cafe. The Mediterranean Cafe was run by a wonderful 516 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to Greek brothers. But nineteen eighty eight it was the 517 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Republican Convention in New Orleans, so I remember vividly they 518 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: took down all the pictures of du Carcass and put 519 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up George Bush for the convention because they knew that 520 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: would be better for the customers. And I had a 521 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fellow way to called Chuck. And Chuck and I divvied 522 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up the cleontele so that when the you know, when 523 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a group of men came in, I took them, and 524 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: when the women came in, he did, and we would 525 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: both make better Tips that way, and that was a 526 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I never felt really unsafe in Naorns, but it was 527 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a very luk I was a real eye opener. No 528 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,399 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we lived. I lived on Decatur Street, right in the 529 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: heart of the French Quarter, which is a you know, 530 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: there's a lot of tough stuff there, a lot of drugs, 531 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: there's a lot of people who were very serious problems, 532 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a lot of drunk. It was eye opening. But then 533 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: from there I went on and went all the way 534 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: through Central America, through Mexico, through Guatemala, and I was 535 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,639 Zanny Minton Beddoes: traveled for a bit of it. I traveled with a 536 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: friend and then I crackers. Really. I decided that I 537 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: wanted to go to Nicaragua to Managua overland from New 538 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: York and that was my goal. But to do that 539 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you had to go through our Salvador, which was in 540 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the middle of a civil war at that point, and 541 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I was determined to do it. So I went into 542 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,919 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Ol Salvador. My friend who I was traveling companion I 543 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was traveling with at that point, he said, look, you, 544 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,639 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this is insane and he left and went back to England. 545 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: My parents hadn't heard anything from me for three weeks. 546 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: They just knew that my traveling companion was back in England, 547 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and eventually I got to Ponduras into Taguzaglper and it 548 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had been I mean, nothing terrible, but it had been 549 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a little scary at times. But in Taguza Glper, which 550 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was at least then was a pretty grim place. I 551 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was staying in some hostel one night on the ground 552 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: floor and there was a very sketchy kind of night 553 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: watchman type who tried to get into my room. And 554 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,959 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that's like the one time and I remember barricading every 555 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: chest of drawers, absolutely everything against the door and thinking 556 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that this is this is going to be I'm going 557 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to get raped, this is going to be this is 558 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: going to be it. And actually he didn't get in, 559 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and first light I was out of there, and that 560 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was fie. But that was a long answer. That is 561 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: literally I think the only time I have been I 562 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have felt in a very very potentially sticky situation. 563 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: So part of the base of the show is that 564 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: we talk about the intersection of the personal and the professional. 565 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: So we've covered very well to tell excellent stories. I 566 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: would really picture them all, you know. It covered a 567 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: lot about the professional side that what brought you into 568 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: each of these jobs. I want to try to bring 569 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the personal. At the same time, I. 570 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Feel like I've been going on about personal stuff. You know, 571 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it's so funny as an tell you stories. 572 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: And I thought to myself as we were coming into this, 573 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm guessing that you know, you came up at a 574 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: time in journalism which was a real old boys club, 575 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,479 Emily Tisch Sussman: in economics, which was very male dominated. 576 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: That even this might feel a little personal for you. Yeah. 577 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: People often ask me, you know, you worked in these 578 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very male dominated environments. What was it like did you 579 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was it very difficult, did you have a hard time? 580 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And you know, I guess I got used to being 581 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in an environment where it was very male looking at 582 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I remember when I would go to a conference that 583 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: would be a sea of pale male faces. But I 584 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: can honestly say that The Economist is an extraordinary meritocratic place, 585 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,159 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and I never ever felt anything other than that, you know, 586 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: people of the quality of people's work was what mattered, 587 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and it was a great place to work. It is 588 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,399 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a great, I hope for my colleagues, a great place 589 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,679 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to work. It's a small We're now three hundred people 590 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in the editorial side of The Economist, and when I 591 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,439 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was there, when I first started, it was barely just 592 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: over one hundred so it was a very small place, 593 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a very collegial place. And that comes from if you 594 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,639 Zanny Minton Beddoes: read The Economist, you will know that the our articles 595 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: are unsigned, and so there's a kind of collect sense 596 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of this is a collective endeavor. And when I first started, 597 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: all The Economist was was a weekly print publication, and 598 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we all worked together, and it had a very very 599 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: strong Mistreeder call and was truly meritocratic. Now if you 600 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: looked at it, it's certainly when I joined, it was 601 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very male, very white, very sort of a lot of 602 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: posh people, but the sense of it was very a 603 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very very meritocratic place. It's now got much bigger. But 604 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: as a result, I genuinely have never I've always felt 605 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that if you do good work, it's going to be rewarded. 606 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: And so while I've had, you know, lots and lots 607 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of interesting experiences over the last twenty five years, I 608 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,479 Zanny Minton Beddoes: haven't felt that I've had to kind of climb up 609 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a ladder that would have been there was more difficult 610 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: because I was a woman. I genuinely haven't. That said, 611 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: now I've become much more aware in this position of 612 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a how few women there are leading organizations, whether it's 613 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,239 Zanny Minton Beddoes: companies or any organization. And that's all I feel a 614 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: kind of sense of responsibility that I didn't really think about, 615 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: you know, two decades ago, to try and convince more 616 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: people to do this, to try and not start sounding 617 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very pretentious, but not just to sort of be a 618 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: role model, but actually to try and you know, change that, 619 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: because I think it is kind of shocking how few 620 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,239 Zanny Minton Beddoes: organizations are led by women, and how few I mean 621 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: there are at the top of most things. And I 622 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: think that is it is changing, but it's not changing 623 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:04,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fast enough. 624 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: And I think even just an awareness that if you 625 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: don't have, like if you're looking at global economics, you 626 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: certainly need to have quite a few women and you 627 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:13,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: do well. 628 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Christine Lagarde who used to who was, you know, French 629 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: finance minister. Then she was head of the IMF. She's 630 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: now head of the European Central Bank. She had that 631 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: famous quip she said if it had been Lehman's sisters, 632 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: they would not have been a financial crisis. 633 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:46,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: After the break More from Zanni, is there something that 634 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: can be something that we talked about, or can be 635 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: something totally different that at the time you saw as 636 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: like a real negative or a low point in your career, 637 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: and now you see it as having really launched you 638 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: to the success you are now. 639 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I think I've become a different kind of person. I 640 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: started off with a sort of I've always been very competitive, 641 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: but it was a restless competitiveness. I wanted to be 642 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: good at what I was doing, but I wasn't quite 643 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: sure whether what I was doing. I was always wondering 644 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: whether what somebody else was doing was better than what 645 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I was doing, and white what should I be good 646 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at that too? And it was it was a sort 647 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of debilitating, that restless competitiveness. And I've been so lucky. 648 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: We've talked about a bit of it, but I've been 649 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: able to have as my job going around the world 650 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: trying to understand different countries, trying to hearing different people's stories, 651 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: trying to make sense of it. And now I feel 652 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a sense that the values that the economist stands for, 653 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that I passionately believe in individual freedom, free markets are 654 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: kind of under attack, actually, and so I now have 655 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a very strong sense of what we do matters in 656 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a really fundamental sense, and it drives me, and it's 657 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: not that's not come from any hardship earlier on, but 658 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I've one I feel that it's really really important, and 659 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I think I've become much more aware that I know 660 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. 661 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I'm an okay writer. I'm certainly not a great writer 662 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,280 Zanny Minton Beddoes: compared to all my colleagues, but I am quite good 663 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at helping frame arguments, and I'm I think, quite good 664 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at getting my getting people to work together to produce 665 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: really good stuff. And that's what I now get a 666 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: lot of satisfaction from. So it's less about individual stuff. 667 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It's about how to bring my colleagues, whether it's five 668 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of them or three hundred of them together to be 669 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fired up by what fires me up about what we're 670 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: trying to do, about what the economist believes in at 671 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this time. So you know, if we're making money subscriptions 672 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: are growing, that's great, but what we're doing is really important. 673 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: So there are just and I can This for me 674 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was one of the most powerful things. It was. A 675 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,760 Zanny Minton Beddoes: year ago I got a letter from a gentleman who 676 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was I think it was half Iranian, half American, who 677 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had been a political prisoner in Evan prison at Wilful 678 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,920 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Prison in Tehran, and he sent me a note saying 679 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that he thought I might like to know that while 680 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: he was there, the Economist had kept him going, and 681 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that there had been a kind of underground railroad kind 682 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,360 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of delivery of The Economist and the lengths that he 683 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and his fellow prisoners had gone to to get the 684 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Economist and to pass it to others. And I read 685 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: that think we published it last year, and I thought, 686 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,840 Zanny Minton Beddoes: this is what makes what we do worth work. And 687 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: it wasn't that I had some hardship that got me 688 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to that, But I've been lucky enough to be able 689 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: for thirty years to do what I love doing, and 690 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: now to be able to lead an organization that I 691 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: truly believe in what we do. I think it really matters, 692 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and if we can have we can make that difference 693 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in people's lives, you know, it's all really worth it. 694 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Why Why is The Economist so important now? 695 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Because The Economist is a publication. We call ourselves a newspaper, 696 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: but increasingly because we have podcasts, we have videos, we 697 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have a digital presence, I think it's a better called 698 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a publication. We were founded in eighteen forty three to 699 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fight for free trade. There was something called the corn 700 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,479 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Laws in the United Kingdom at that point, which were 701 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,479 Zanny Minton Beddoes: basically tariffs which were kept in place by to essentially 702 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,240 Zanny Minton Beddoes: protect rich, aristocratic run farms and meant that poor people 703 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: had to pay higher prices for their bread. And there 704 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,239 Zanny Minton Beddoes: was a big movement to get rid of them, the 705 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,759 Zanny Minton Beddoes: free trade movement, and the Economist was essentially created to 706 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fight for free trade, to fight for openness, to fight 707 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: for traditional English liberal values. And we've done that ever 708 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: since eighteen forty three. And you know, you look around 709 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:29,440 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the world now and those values openness to immigration, free trade, 710 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: free markets are increasingly under attack. Look at what's happening 711 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: in this country right now. And when I started this job, 712 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: when I became editor in chief in twenty fifteen, the 713 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: kind of worldview that the Economist is associated with globalization, 714 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: freer trade, open markets was kind of a establishment view. 715 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It was a standard view. But ten years later it's 716 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: very much not. Ten years later, you have populism, you 717 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: have people protectionism, you have people who want to put 718 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: up barriers. You have a foreign policy which is much 719 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: more transactional, you know, one country against the other, and 720 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: so the kind of world that my career has been 721 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: able to watch essentially be created after the fall of 722 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Berlin Wall, after the collapse of communism, I think 723 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: is now under threat in a way that's very striking 724 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,879 Zanny Minton Beddoes: across the world. Whether it's the tensions between the US 725 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and China, whether it's the increase in tariffs from that 726 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the Trump administration is doing, whether it's intervention in economies, 727 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: whether it's the attitude to immigrants. Across the board, there 728 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: is a moving away from those kind of traditional English 729 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: liberal and I have to say English books is American 730 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: liberals something slightly different English Liberal values. And so I 731 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: think what the Economist does, which is not just provide 732 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,520 Zanny Minton Beddoes: superb analysis and journalism, and you know, we're not partisan, 733 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: we're rigorous, we're fact checked. It's really very very rigorous 734 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,359 Zanny Minton Beddoes: good journalism, but it also does it in the sort 735 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,959 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of founded on these values, and we make the case 736 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,719 Zanny Minton Beddoes: for this kind of world, which I passionately believe is 737 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: about world than the one that we're heading towards. 738 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: So it matters this phase that we're moving into now. 739 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: I just have to get your take on this. Do 740 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: you think we are moving into a phase sort of 741 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: the decline of US superpower and the rise of Chinese Like, 742 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: is it inevitable? 743 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,800 Zanny Minton Beddoes: No, No, it's absolutely non inevitable. First of all, China, 744 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: China has done an extraordinary job at reducing poverty and 745 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: becoming a successful economy. But China has real challenges. It's 746 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a huge demographic challenge. China's aging incredibly quickly. China's economy 747 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: has huge problems. So I don't think one should sort 748 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of fetishize how strong China is. What I think is 749 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,560 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a problem. And I also think the United States. And 750 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,680 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I'm as I said to you, I came first to 751 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the West Coast when before I was even at university, 752 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,720 Zanny Minton Beddoes: I spent most of my adult life living in the US. 753 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,759 Zanny Minton Beddoes: My kids are American citizens. I love this country. But 754 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,759 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the reason I love this country is that it is 755 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a country where people come. It's a magnet for people 756 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: all over the world who want to make the best 757 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of their lives in America. And it's this magic combination 758 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: of an incredibly deep capital market, a competitive economy, the 759 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: best most talented people, the best universities. That is this 760 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: magic cocktail that has created not just the sort of 761 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,960 Zanny Minton Beddoes: wealth that is the United States, but what I see 762 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: the US doing now and it's bipartisan, it's both parties. 763 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Is because of the fear of China, the US is 764 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,320 Zanny Minton Beddoes: essentially becoming something very different, putting up tariff walls, putting 765 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,239 Zanny Minton Beddoes: on export restrictions, you know, becoming skeptical of migrant Look 766 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,080 Zanny Minton Beddoes: at what the administration is doing for the best universities. 767 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,880 Zanny Minton Beddoes: It's I think, turning it's back on some of the 768 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,200 Zanny Minton Beddoes: things that have made this country right great, and in 769 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,120 Zanny Minton Beddoes: some ways the US is becoming a little bit more Chinese, more, 770 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,600 Zanny Minton Beddoes: a greater kind of government, control, less open, and less 771 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,839 Zanny Minton Beddoes: and for me, that is tragic. The US has, Yes, 772 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,000 Zanny Minton Beddoes: China's competitor, Yes, China's an authoritarian regime. Yes they've caught up. Yes, 773 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: there are certain areas where you know, the US needs 774 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,400 Zanny Minton Beddoes: to make sure it stays ahead. But turning sort of 775 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,640 Zanny Minton Beddoes: fear of China into a debilitating fetish is I think 776 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,480 Zanny Minton Beddoes: something that will not lead to good posy in this country. 777 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thank you so much for joining us and this is phenomenal. 778 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,160 Zanny Minton Beddoes: Thank you for having me. Thank you gag it to 779 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,040 Zanny Minton Beddoes: me so. 780 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Great to meet you. Thank you so much for listening 781 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: to this special episode of she Pivots, recorded live at 782 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: the Aspen Ideas festival. The best way to stay up 783 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: to date with Zanni is to subscribe to The Economist 784 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: or to follow her on Twitter at zannimb Thanks for 785 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: listening to this episode of she Pivots. I hope you 786 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: enjoyed it, and if you did, leave us a rating 787 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: and tell your friends about us. To learn more about 788 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: our guests, follow us on Instagram at she pivots the Podcast, 789 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: or sign up for our newsletter, where you can get 790 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: exclusive behind the scenes content on our website at she 791 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:54,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: pivots thepodcast dot com. This episode was produced and edited 792 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: by Emily Atavelosk, with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollock. 793 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: Audio production and social media by Hannah Cousins, research by 794 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: Christine Dickinson, and logistics and planning by Emma Stopic and 795 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots is proud to be a part 796 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:15,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: of the iHeart Podcast Network. I endorse t pivots.