1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: what is your relationship with horror stories, with horror movies, 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: with horror fiction. Um, well, you're a fan. Well, well, yeah, 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: I would say that I'm not as much anymore. And 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: I became really sensitive to horror in any sort of 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: form um when my after my daughter was born. Actually 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: well I was pregnant, so I have been slowly ramping 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: back up, back back up into zombie land. Uh. But 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: I used to love the Ripper stuff. I'm not a ripperologist, 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: but that that was something that occupied my mind for 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: for many, many years and a ripper enthusiast enthusiast. Sure, sure, 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: I like that. Um but yeah, yeah, that's that's uh 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: stuff that I think is absolutely frightening and takes hold 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: of your mind and you can't help being transport. And 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that you have a good and lengthy 18 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: relationship with horror. Yeah yeah, I um, I mean from 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: very early on, possibly because my my my mom's explanation 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: for this is that she is that they always made 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: too much out of Halloween, or that they really celebrated 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: Halloween in our households. So it kind of instilled an 23 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: early fascination with with them a cob and and and 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: perhaps that that's the case, but I mean from a 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: very early age, I was fascinated with with these fantastic 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: stories and settings and and any kind of creepy tales. UM. 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: I remember like when I was in uh younger grades, 28 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: we would would go to the video store to rent 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: movies as a family, or I'd go there with my dad, 30 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: and we were not horror movie renting people, but I 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: would sneak over or even not really sneak, but I would. 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: I would go over to the horror and I would 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: walk down I would look at all the vhs uh 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: covers And it was a pretty uh, pretty crazy experience 35 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: doing that because on one hand, especially in you know, 36 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: back in the back in the nineties, these uh, these 37 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: VHS covers, they even the crappiest film might have a 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: really awesome bit of poster art on the cover, awesome title, 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: really awesome stelf and uh. And as we've discussed before, 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: I think that like the first episode we did with 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: each other, or the second about people turning inside out. 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: There was one film that had a picture of a 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: guy turning inside out on the cover, and the actual 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: film has nothing to do with that. And it didn't 45 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: you say, he had like jeans onto you, And that 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: was what was so just concerting, as he was turning 47 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: himself inside out or he was inside out, and yet 48 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: he had jeans on like me. Maybe he knew he 49 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: was going to turn inside out and he has a 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: real version of nudity, so he swallowed some gene shorts 51 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: before the poisonous miss could transform him. How that happened. 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: But they always had, you know, even if it was 53 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: it was something just crazy, out of the ordinary, just 54 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 1: a lost beef home, it might have some really neat 55 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: cover going on. And then the mainstream hits, they all 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: had fascinating covers, be it like a Friday the thirteen 57 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: or a Nightmare on Elm Street. And and I would 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: always build up in my mind this, uh, this creative 59 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: version of what that film must consist of, and generally, 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's not an idea that would stand 61 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: the test of time when I actually watched the film 62 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: later on the road. So yeah, from a from a 63 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: very early point, I was very interested in these in 64 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: horror stories and some of the first books I started 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: reading a really hardcore where Stephen King books, and then 66 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: we got really into love craft, and and I still 67 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: I still read a certain amount of horror. Some of 68 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: it maybe is a little more literary, some of it 69 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: is significantly less literary, depending on I guess what my 70 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: mood is, and I write stories that are horror or 71 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: horror esque in nature. So right, we'll get to the 72 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: crux of what we're talking about in a moment. But 73 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: you want to talk about as soon as I'm through rampling, No, no, no, 74 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: about what you've written and in some upcoming information about that. Oh, 75 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: I do have a book of short stories. It's going 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: to be out eventually, but I don't it's a book 77 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: of Southern short stories and it's called it's going to 78 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: be called The Grave Stoppers, I believe. Yeah. Okay, so 79 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: look forward to and we'll give you, guess some more 80 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: information on that. But I think that's really exciting to 81 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: talk about. I'm excited about it. It's just got a 82 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: little more editing tweaking to do. Um. But yeah, the 83 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: the topic here, we're talking about horror. We're talking about 84 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: our fascination with horror and kids fascination kids, because that's 85 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: the thing, Like, like I mentioned earlier, from a very 86 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: early age, I was interested in what these stories consisted of, 87 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: even if they were forbidden to me, and you know, 88 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: probably in certain to a certain extent because they were 89 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: forbidden to me. But but all kids seem to have 90 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: this this obsession on some level with with what is 91 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: waiting in the closet right what is behind the shower 92 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: curtain or looking at in the bottom of the toilet, 93 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: you know. And and and that is so true because um, 94 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: I remember just hating these stories when I was a 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: little but loving them the same time, like tell me again, 96 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: and tell me again, and then just you know, sitting 97 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: in my bed thinking about how a severed hand was 98 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: going to come and strangle me to death. They're talking 99 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: about the toilet story. Oh they did think made me 100 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: think about the toilet first for a moment, because I 101 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: kind of think at some point I thought a severed 102 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: hand might come out of the toilet too. When I 103 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: was a little I'll see, I was poisoned by the 104 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: VHS covers because they had these awful doolies films and 105 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: that it pictured that the cover arts are are amazing 106 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: because they picture these really bad looking puppets. Not these 107 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: were not hints and creations, but like horrible little goblin 108 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: puppets coming out of the toilet. And the idea, I 109 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: think the tagline was like they get you in the 110 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: end or something, because you're exposed, you're vulnerable on the 111 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: toilet and as a kid, there there are other anxieties 112 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: tied up with with using the toilet anyway. And then 113 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: throw in the fact that there might be a goblin 114 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: down there that might eat you in the bomb that 115 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: in the that's that's problem out right there. Well, let's 116 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about clowns for a moment um, 117 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: because you know what you're talking about, toilets and scary stuff. 118 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: You've gotta go to clowns. Um, I'm not the only 119 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: person who's frightened of clowns. Apparently this is something that 120 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people have a phobia of. And there 121 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: is one study that I thought was very interesting. Um. 122 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 1: The University of Sheffield study asked more than two fifty 123 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: children ages four to sixteen, what they thought of the 124 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: idea of using clown imagery to decorate a hospital children's ward. 125 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Because this is really they were trying to figure out 126 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: what they wanted to make this ward look like to 127 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: make the kids feel more at home. According to Dr 128 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: Penny Curtis, who helped conduct the study, quote, we found 129 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: that clowns were universally disliked by children. Some found them 130 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: quite frightening and unknowable. And unknowable I thought that was 131 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: a really interesting word choice because I thought that I 132 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: think is part of the problem with clowns. Um. And 133 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: think anybody who's listening that has same feeling about clowns 134 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: that I do. There's this idea that you know, there's 135 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: some someone hiding behind a mask, not showing their true 136 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: self well, and their skin is ghostly pale, and then 137 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: grease paint. It's just and they're doing you know, creepy tricks. Um. 138 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: But sometimes they're saving rodeo people from certain goring at 139 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: the hands of a bull. You gotta respect the rodeo clowns. 140 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know about I think the 141 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: rodeo clown has perhaps be most frightening because then you 142 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: just put a cowboy head on top. It's just it 143 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: doesn't work well. One way. I see this tying and 144 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: what we're talking about today. The rodeo clown especially is 145 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of distracting you from the idea of death. And 146 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: maybe we sort of see that, see through that to 147 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: a certain extent, you know, and we kind of we 148 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: can't we see the con going on and we don't 149 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: want to buy into it. That's not a clown having fun. 150 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: That is one dude trying to save another guy from 151 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: getting run through with bullhorns. I don't know about that. 152 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: I think that is the clown trying to add more 153 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: distraction so that the the radio person will be gored 154 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: to death. Because I mean, I do not see anything 155 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: there that's that's um, that is genuine, that's that's beneficial. Well, 156 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: we'll tell me. There's one more thing about clowns here. Um. 157 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: And I encountered the clown phobia a lot because it 158 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: seems like everybody has it. Um. But I started with 159 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: jesters for me, by the way, jester for the record, no, 160 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: just court jesters. Those guys, well there with court jesters, 161 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: I feel like they're a little more honest because the 162 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: court jester is obviously adult and his and his and 163 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: is also in such close proximity to a mad ruler. 164 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: They're really hanging on by a thread. They have to 165 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: walk that line every day. Um? And can I make 166 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: the king laugh without actually uh winding up in the dungeon? 167 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: You know? So I feel for those guys along, But 168 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: but tell me this, how about the sad clowns? How 169 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: about the sad hobo clowns? Like like, mkelly, are you kidding? 170 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: Like that's that's that's the worst? How is that the worst? 171 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: Was just even you see him and he's just the 172 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: hobo clown, you know, with stubble on the chimp, a 173 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: cigarette hanging out, you know, two coins in his pocket, 174 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: has a hole in it. That's uplifting for a child 175 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: right there there hoping it has that hobo mystique about him. 176 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's the traveler, he's got emperiences. Um okay. 177 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: So I think the question is why do we keep 178 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: going to material that that unearth these uneasy feelings? So 179 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: why did I read Stephen King's it? And I couldn't 180 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: put it down? Um? You know, and and it features 181 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: a prominent clown, right. I think there's people when they 182 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: think about clowns, they usually think kings. Ye, why do 183 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: we keep doing this? And scientists believe that The answer 184 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: is that humans have evolved to actually enjoy fear, and 185 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: that we there's a type of personality that really enjoys it. 186 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: We've talked about this person before. It's the neophiliac. It's 187 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: like the type T right, Type T. Yeah, this is 188 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: the person who craves new experiences, really wants a jolt, 189 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: and that's because they have a lot more dopamine flowing 190 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: and we already know that they are genetic markers for this, right. Um, 191 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: So this is something that is hardwired in some people. 192 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: But that being said, even if you're not a type 193 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: TIE person or a neophiliac, usually most people enjoy good 194 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: scare to some degree. So should I walk us through 195 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the the the the shadow of the value of death. 196 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: Al Right, So let's say you're watching something scary or 197 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: or reading something scary. Um, I don't know. Let's say 198 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: it's our textis Chainsaw Masker. That's that was one that 199 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: always got on. Um. So you're watching this right, Yeah, 200 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: the horror on the screen and uh and in the 201 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: soundtrack because it has a fabulous sound design. Uh, runs 202 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: into your ears, into your eyes, and it all winds 203 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: up in this little almond shaped clump of neurons called 204 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: the amygdala. All right, right, we've talked about the Magdola 205 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: processes all sorts of emotions front and center. Yeah, it's 206 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: vital to emotional processing, especially thanks like glove, pleasure, and 207 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: of course fear um. So Amigola activate unless she's all this, 208 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: All these brain and body cocktails into your body, All 209 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: these hormones, all right, yeah, Yeah, prompts the adrenal glands 210 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: to turn out cortisol, which is a stress hormone, and 211 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: high levels of this can actually impede insulin and causes 212 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: the rise in blood sugar. Gives you a little extra 213 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: fuel because you the brain is telling you something scary 214 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: is happening and you might have to either run from 215 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: it or attack it with a stick. So yeah, you 216 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: can need extra oxygen for that. So you're breathing faster. 217 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: The body is saying, all right, let's do it. We're 218 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: gonna fight or flight. I'm going to make sure that 219 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: you have enough oxygen for it. Heart is racing so 220 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: that oxygen can get to your muscles. Your appetite stalls, 221 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: because if you're about to have to fight leather face, 222 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: you don't you don't want to have to stop for 223 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: a snack break or granola bar bar halfway through it um, 224 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: which I think would be a nice take because you know, 225 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: in the slasher films, what always happens to the the 226 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: survey of her lady, right, she ends up knocking down 227 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: Jason Vorhees or somehow incapacitating our killer, kicking him in 228 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: the the nethers or something hitting him on the head, 229 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: and then they're down. And instead of doing the logical thing, 230 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: which is either which is fight or flight, which is 231 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: either run all the way away into the next county 232 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: or never stop hitting the down maniac in the face 233 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: with a brick fight it finish it right, Instead, they 234 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: set there next to the the killer and maybe weep 235 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: a little bit until they actually wait back up again 236 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: and it all starts a new But it would be 237 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: a nice twist if if they stopped and they actually 238 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: use that time to have a granilla bar and yeah, 239 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: little sacket of snack mix. That would be you know, 240 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: if anybody's listening in there, they're writing the next screenplay 241 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: for screen ten or whatever we're on though. All right, 242 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: so but that's not all Your appetite is stalled, and 243 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: you're also you're sweating because we don't want you to 244 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: overheat in this fight or flight scenario, all right, your 245 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: pupils are dilated so that you can see the enemy better, 246 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: because again the body is getting you ready to either 247 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: fight it or flight it. And uh. And finally, the 248 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: cortisol saturated your bloodstream and feeds back in the nicola 249 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: to boost the perception of danger. So it also reinforces 250 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: your memory of that initial fright so that you'll still 251 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: feel a little jumpy. Because the idea here is like 252 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: I got attacked by Jason Vorhees today, I might be 253 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: attacked by another Jason Vorhees tomorrow. So it stays in 254 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: your system for a few days. That's why something frightful happens, 255 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: you're you maybe a little jumpy for a little bit afterwards, 256 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: for you know, days. And this all happens within about 257 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: three seconds. And while all this is happening, information also 258 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: travels to your prefrontal cortex, and this is part of 259 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: the brain responsible for consciously evaluating danger and it tells you, 260 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: thankfully that this is just a movie. And so what 261 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: happens is you are completely overstimulated, right, and the resulting 262 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: spillover is processed as reward instead of fear because all 263 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,239 Speaker 1: of a sudden you think, oh, yes, okay, it's okay, 264 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: there's there's no imminent threat. I have actually served vibed 265 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 1: what I just imagined for myself. Yeah, because the other thing, 266 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: if you're about to potentially fight Jason Vorhees or run 267 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: from him, um, the body is also helping out by 268 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: making sure that the that their endorphins released into your 269 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: bloodstream because you're going to sustain injuries if you're fighting 270 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: him or running through the woods to escape him. So 271 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: so you end up having dopamine, uh flowing through the 272 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: system is feel good drug that if you're not actually 273 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: having to fight or run away, is just going to 274 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: be there to make you feel good, you know. And 275 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: you mentioned to you that cortisol lingers in your blood 276 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: for a couple of days, and um, that actually feeds 277 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: into this other idea that it's useful for your magdala 278 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: to be processing both fear and pleasure because uh, you know, 279 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: necessarily want to um separate those two forms of stimulation 280 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: because situations change on the time. What could be pleasant 281 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: now could in five minutes, ten minutes a day later 282 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: be actually very fearful or unpleasant. So the brain has 283 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: to respond accordingly. And it's actually pretty brilliant way to 284 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: adapt very quickly situations to have the magdala uh. You know, 285 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: having this double duty now another huge aspect of fear 286 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: and uh and and this certainly flows over into into 287 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: our enjoyment of horror films and horror fiction and and 288 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, quick improved scares around the house. Uh And 289 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: and that is the social context of it, because, like 290 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: a lot of things, we learn how it works from 291 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: seeing how others use it. We see how what other 292 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: people's fear responses, and from that we uh we begin 293 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: to piece together our own appropriate fear responses. It's true. 294 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: And uh. You know, we have mentioned kids and the 295 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: fact that they actually like to be scared. And I 296 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: even see this in my three year old at round 297 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: age two, she started saying chase me or you know, 298 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: pretending that I was you know, uh t rex or something. 299 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Um and you do you see the same kids and 300 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: they really are trying to work out situations and this 301 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: is the idea behind why they do like to get scared. 302 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: Psychologist Paul Bloom's lab has actually shown four and five 303 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: year old films of other children reacting to movies now 304 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: he had to do that because for ethical reasons, he 305 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: couldn't get kids into his lab and then scare them, right, 306 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: um so, but he could show them images of children 307 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: who were scared, who were watching scary movies. When asked 308 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: which of the movies they would want to see, because 309 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: he shared them all different types of movies, boring movies, 310 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: happy movies, sad movies, scary movies. The four and five 311 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: year olds preferred the happy films, of course, but they 312 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: picked scary movies over the boring ones. And he says, 313 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: parents automatically assumed that children like stories with happy endings, 314 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: and he cited the Little Engine that Could, But he says, 315 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: what about the little Engine that that tried and failed? 316 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: It might be that children would find it perversely satisfying. 317 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: It's it's also worth noting here, um, not to jump 318 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: too far ahead, but most, maybe most, um, mainstream horror 319 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: films do have a happy ending. Um yeah, like you know, 320 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: you have a lot of bad stuff happened. But then 321 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: but if they follow the more stereotypical story arc of 322 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: these things, uh, you still have everything come back around 323 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: to some level of normalcy and some some manner of 324 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: a happy ending. Now, that that does not hold true 325 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: across the board. But if you think of some of 326 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: the stuff that's really mainstream, the stuff that is actually 327 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: up there in the box office, um, like Jaws, for instance, 328 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: what happens in the end of Jaws spoiler shark blows 329 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: up right right the the bad guy, the Boogeyman, is vanquished. Really, 330 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: and so we see that over and over again in stories. 331 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: We see fairy tales, right, and this is the stuff 332 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: that we feed our children's mind with from the get go. 333 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: I remember that not too long ago there were five 334 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: hundred year old um German fairy tales that were just unearthed, 335 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: and one of them was particularly gruesome. It was about 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: a witch who swallowed um, this girl. Actually the girls 337 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: trying to get away from the witch, she turned into water. 338 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: The witch swallowed her up and so then the girl 339 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: had to cut herself out of the witch's belly. And 340 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: you know this again, the reason why we're putting this 341 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: sort of information out there, um consciously or unconsciously, is 342 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: because you're trying to teach kids about dangers in the world. 343 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: And that's what storytelling and and really horror stories are 344 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: trying to tell you. Like, there is some sort of 345 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: moral code ascribed to what we're doing in the world. Um. 346 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: And there are consequences, and of course you have. Some 347 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: of the nursery boogies were just all about trying to 348 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: correct certain behaviors, like like the long Legged scissor Man, 349 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: the whole rhyme about We're basically it's you don't need 350 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: to suck your thumb because if you keep sucking your thumb, 351 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: the long legged scissor Man will show up and he 352 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: will slice your thumbs off. I never heard that, Oh, 353 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: you're really there's a there's a fun rhyme. If I 354 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: if I thought about it ahead of time, I would 355 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: have brought it. I would have brought it in prepared 356 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: so we could we could read it. But wow, okay, um, 357 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: I didn't get a lot of that kind of stuff 358 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: right to me as a child. It was mostly like 359 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: if you grow up in a Victorian it was mostly 360 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: like environmental literature like pop Cam Park and stuff like that. Um. 361 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean there's this idea that children are 362 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: learning what dangers are and people who they can trust 363 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: and not trust. Um. And there's something actually called Williams 364 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: syndrome and children and adults and this actually this syndrome 365 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: doesn't allow them to be fearful of anybody in any 366 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: sort of social situation. Um, they are hyper social people 367 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: with William syndrome. They love people and they are literally 368 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: pathologically trusting of people right now. And then not to 369 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: imply that all hyper social activity and UH in small 370 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: kids is definitely tied up in this condition. You also 371 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: have situations where kids will be hyper social because they've 372 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: grown up in an early environment where it is advantageous 373 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: to be UH ultrasocial with various people moving through their lives, 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: particularly and say UH an institutionalized setting like an ape 375 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: as yeah, right, as as as a way to adapt. Um. 376 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: But with with people with true Williams syndrome readers, researchers 377 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: actually think that their limbic system, the part of the 378 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: brain that regulates emotion, is wired differently, and there appears 379 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: to be a disregulation in one of the chemicals oxytocin 380 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: we've taught. We've called that the love hormone. Before that 381 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: signals went to trust and went to distrust. And parents 382 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: of kids with William syndrome have to be really vigilant 383 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: about teaching their children to distrust people, because they truly 384 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: will they really sensed no fear whatsoever. And we'll run 385 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: up to anybody and uh and pretty much say, hey, 386 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: what's going on? Come home with me? All right, we're 387 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, 388 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss Catharsis and our old friend benign violation. 389 00:20:53,800 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: Oh that old friend, right, we're back, so benign violation. 390 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: You may remember this from when we talked about humor. 391 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: What makes something funny? According to some theories of humor, um, 392 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: it's the fact that we're threatened but not really. Something 393 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,959 Speaker 1: that seems like it's gonna kill us is actually just 394 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: a joke, and therefore we laugh. It's our our our 395 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: way of communicating to our fellow cave people that that 396 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: there's no real threat, that the what we thought was 397 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: a savor tooth tiger jumping out of the the underbrush 398 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: to consume us was actually just thog having a laugh 399 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: at our expense. And then we all kind of laugh 400 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: because we were so frightened and really sacrificed thog to 401 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: our red gods. Right, but then the sabre tooth tiger 402 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: in the actual horror film does come out right after 403 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: the laughter rime. Right, But but the benign violation definitely 404 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: plays into our consumption of horror because, like we discussed earlier, 405 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: all this stuff is going on in your brain. You're 406 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: watching this horror movie, you're reading this horror book. Your 407 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: body is responding accordingly, and then your brain kicks in 408 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: and says, WHOA, Just to keep in mind, this is 409 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: just a movie. It's not real. Uh and uh, and 410 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: thank goodness that part of the brain is there to 411 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: remind us of this. But it results in this benign 412 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: violation area where we're threatened but not really. There's something horrible, 413 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: but it actually can't hurt us, right, so you know 414 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: that the threats not there. And UM, I do think 415 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: it's very interesting that it has such a parallel with humor. 416 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: And indeed, like we're discussing the humor situation, what happens 417 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: when you go to see a horror movie? Uh, in 418 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: a movie theater, Well, when people are not checking their email, 419 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: talking on the phone, uh, smoking um illegal substances, or 420 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: talking with their friends, or eating popcorn, eating nachos, making out, 421 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: drinking sodas, really loudly talking to their child who is 422 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 1: inappropriately attending the film. It is a long list of 423 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: things that happened that are not movie viewing in a 424 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: like you just took that list out of your pocket 425 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: went down. But one of the other things they do 426 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: is they laugh when something horrible happens, which is something 427 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: I line up on that list of things I hate 428 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: about seeing films with other people, uh list. But but 429 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: it's something that actually lines up with the signs and 430 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: we're looking at here because it's the benign violation. It's 431 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: it's the fact that something horrible happened and they didn't die. 432 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: It produces laughter, and I can't get too irritated at 433 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: that because it's tied into our evolutionary history. Well it 434 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: is cathartic. Yeah, right, So but here's here's the thing. 435 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: So one are the eating nachos, because if they're scared, 436 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: they should have there. That's the other thing that gives 437 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: me so like, people will go into a film to 438 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: see something like Schindler's List or some sort of horror 439 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: film and they have nachos. All we're gonna pay for 440 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: it afterward. But that's not your problem, man, But they're 441 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: gonna lose their appetite. You're in the fearful moments anyway, 442 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Like say, hey, man, don't 443 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: eat those nachos, like you're you're gonna produce too much 444 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: stomach acid because you're in an altered state maybe, and 445 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: and too much noise. They should soak those things more 446 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: in that yellow gook Beforehands of the Knife and Sagi. Anyway, Um, 447 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: that kind of episode. What was I talking about? Well, 448 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: I think we're talking about trying to master our fear 449 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: in Catharsis. Yes, Catharsis. Catharsis, just remind everybody this is uh, 450 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: the purging of emotions or relieving of emotional tensions, especially 451 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: through certain kinds of art, such as tragedy or music. Um. 452 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: It's the pleasure that comes from the relief that follows. Right. Um. 453 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to note that a lot of horror 454 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: flicks are really geared toward teenagers and twentysomethings. Um. John 455 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: Edward Campbell, who is an expert in media studies at 456 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: Templing University, said that that people in those age groups 457 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: are more likely to look for intense experiences, while older 458 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: people have stimulation fatigue. Uh. He says, life's real horrors 459 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: scare them or they don't find them entertaining anymore or interesting. Yeah, 460 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: and then Freud he even piped in and this suggests 461 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: that the horror was appealing because it traffics in quote 462 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: thoughts and feeling things that have been repressed by the 463 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: ego but which seem vaguely familiar. So lining up with that, 464 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: and also outside of that, you have her as a 465 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: form of this. This can be this form of therapy 466 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: where we're we're dealing with the things that we're afraid of, 467 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: but informs that make more sense, be it a social 468 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: concern that is personified or some sort of just you know, 469 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: the fear of death personified into something that can be 470 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: uh dealt with on a on a like a more 471 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: of a clear cut level. We talked about zombies before, 472 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: Like you can look at zombies that way, zombies as 473 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: this uh it's this, this clear cut personification of various 474 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: fears that can be dealt with in a pretty clear 475 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: cut manner. Most of our fears we can't shoot dead 476 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: in the street with a shotgun, um not, and and 477 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: still maintain a, you know, our fair standing in society. 478 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: H Zombies and the zombie fiction allows us to engage 479 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: in that kind of a world where there is good 480 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: and there is zombie and they're cleanly dealt with through 481 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: a specified means of taking them down, you know. Um, 482 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: I was just thinking too, And when you're young, when 483 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: you're really young, um, and then even when you're a 484 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: teenager in your early twenties, you are still grappling with 485 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: this idea that one day you will die, right that 486 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: This is this ultimately is the problem that we're dealing with. 487 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: This is why horror films are so entrancing to us. Yeah, 488 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: you can boil a lot of harror down to just 489 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: basically us trying to figure out mortality. Yeah, it's the 490 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: basic human condition of existential fear, right, Like we know 491 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: that eventually all of us will be entering that that 492 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: doorstep of death. And so I was just thinking about 493 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: how you said, uh, that you might be overly wrapped 494 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: with um the macab because of growing up and celebrating Halloween, 495 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: And the same thing in my family happened. I mean, 496 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: my dad would play the pit and the pendulum against 497 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: the house, like protecting against the house every year, and 498 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: he would turn our yard into a graveyard. And our 499 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: favorite movies of family to this day, and this was 500 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: one of my brother I was five and my brother 501 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: was seven is Harold and maud Okay, which which is 502 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: about a very morose kid. It's about death and his 503 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: occupation with I can't remember he's but Holly was telling 504 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: me how disconcerting it is to see him in pictures 505 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: today because he was Yeah, but he his character was 506 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: preoccupied with death. Um. He would pull off these hoax 507 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: deaths all the time, or suicides. And my brother used 508 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: to do the same thing. So he would, like, you know, 509 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: we'd be eating dinner and he'd go get up to 510 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: go the bathroom, and the next thing you know, you 511 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: would see him dragging his body if you've ever seen 512 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: when someone do that across the threshold, you know, from 513 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: the door. So we so it looked like someone was 514 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: dragging his body. He was always pretending to be Harold. 515 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: And now that I think about it, that that was 516 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: a really fun way for her, for us to kind 517 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: of get a beat on that subject on death and 518 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: work it out. I suppose um. One of my favorite 519 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: cart that's that's very cathartic. Um. One of my favorite 520 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: commentators on all of this is is Stephen King, who, 521 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: in his intro to his short story collection Night Shift 522 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: Um has us a lot of really interesting things to 523 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: say about not only the craft of writing stories in 524 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: his own experiences with with writing horror, but also what 525 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: he sees as the meaning of it. And he keeps 526 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: making allusions to the Uh you know, you've heard the 527 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: idea of the blind men and men and the elephant. 528 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: Right where there's an elephant and there are these there's 529 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: this pack of blind men and they're pawing at the elephant, 530 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: and each one is feeling a different part of the 531 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: elephant and thus describing it differently. Like the person the 532 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: blind man touching the the the legs of the elephant says, Oh, 533 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: it's like it's like a pole, and then the person 534 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: touching the trunks as that it's like a snake. And 535 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: uh King makes this um, this argument that horror allows 536 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: us to paw at this equally um unseen body that 537 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: is death. Um, I'm gonna read a quick quote from 538 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: He says, children learn fear quickly. They pick it up 539 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: off their mother or father's faces when the parent comes 540 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: into the bathroom and sees them with the bottle of 541 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: pills or the safety razor. Fear makes us blind, and 542 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: we uh, fear makes us blind, and we touch each 543 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: fear with all the avid curiosity of self interest, trying 544 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,239 Speaker 1: to make a hole out of a hundred parts. Like 545 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: the blind men with their elephant. We sense the shape. 546 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: Children grasped it easily, forget it, and relearn it as adults. 547 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: The shape is there, and most of us come to 548 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: realize what it is sooner or later. It is the 549 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: shape of a body under our sheet, under a sheet. 550 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: So I thought that sums it up rather nicely. Uh. 551 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: As far as just a horror as our wrestling with mortality, yeah, 552 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: I don't think anybody can put it better than Stephen 553 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: King and um, and then there's all I've I mentioned before. 554 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: You know, monsters. Anytime we're dealing with monsters, monsters almost 555 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: always signify something they're not just a such situation about. 556 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: You know, it'd be scary if we had there's a guy, 557 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: but his his head was a wolf's head. Wouldn't that 558 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: be That would be scary. Let's just throw that in there. 559 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that may be the level of thinking engaged 560 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: in the creation of the particular story or myth. But 561 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: deeper down, um, we even look to the like the 562 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: word monster. The word monstrosity originates from the Latin uh monstery, 563 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: which means to show or illustrate a point. So all 564 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: of our monsters, no matter how gross or poorly designed, 565 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: they embodied ideas, fears, and abstractions about the human condition, 566 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: be it about death or disease, be it a social 567 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: concern or um, you know what, have you eased even ourselves? 568 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: How we can be unknowable to ourselves? Exactly? Yes, certainly 569 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: when you look at Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde King. 570 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: Also in this uh, this intro, he he describes hard 571 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: to as a kind of replacement therapy you know where. 572 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: And this gets a little into Catharsis, but but more 573 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: along the lines of I have certain things in my 574 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: life that, um, that caused me a certain the level 575 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: of anxiety, and um, wouldn't it be nice if I 576 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: could replace that for a little bit with some imagined 577 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: anxiety that's even worse, so an escapism that makes my 578 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: lot in life look not so bad? Yeah, he says. 579 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: The horror story writer is not so different from the 580 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: Welsh sin eater who was supposed to take upon himself 581 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: the sins of the deer departed by partaking of the 582 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: deer departed's food. The tale of Monstrosity and tearor is 583 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: a basket loosely packed with phobious When the writer passes by, 584 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: you take one of his imaginary horrors out of the 585 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: basket and you put one of your real ones in 586 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: at least for a time, which I thought it was 587 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: an interesting way of looking at it. Well, very cool. Um, 588 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: I think that these are different ways to kind of 589 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: come at the subject. But at the end of the day, Um, 590 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's something that a psychologist named Glenn 591 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: Waltz's of Cuttown University. What he said I thought was 592 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: was resonated with me. He said, control lost under the 593 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: cover of darkness is rediscovered in the light of day. 594 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: Danger posed by things unknown is reduced by increased knowledge 595 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: and predict predictability. And I thought that is really what 596 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: it's about. I mean, any sort of story is a 597 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: bit of a training wheels for us to try to 598 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: occupy this this space in our mind. We try to 599 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: imagine ourselves in these horrific moments. Um, So it is instructive. Yeah, 600 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: in that context, I'll be sure to do a blog 601 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: post to go along with this podcast, and so as 602 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: to cut down in time now, I will list some 603 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 1: other favorite bits of horrorsh fiction or horror uh film 604 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: um in that blog post you can check it out. 605 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: So as gonna leave this podcast and our contemplation of 606 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: fearful and horrible things and and how real and imagine, yeah, 607 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: real and imagine, and how looking into the darkness can 608 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: help us conquer the darkness. Here's a little bit of 609 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: geeky uh quotiness from one of my favorite authors, Frank Herbert. Uh, 610 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: you'll recognize it. He said, Uh, I must not fear. 611 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death. 612 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: It brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I 613 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: will permit it to pass over me and through me. 614 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: And when it has gone past, I will turn the 615 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone, 616 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: there will be nothing. Only I will remain. Hallelujah. Yeah, 617 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: So who's for that in your mind? Next time you 618 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: watch something frightening on TV that isn't the news. If 619 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: it leads, it leads. All right, do we have an 620 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: email there? Yes, there's Well, I feel like we've probably 621 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: went a little along, so I'm just gonna have the 622 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: robot share one of these with us, all right. This 623 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: is from one Albert Albert Wright cent and says Hi, 624 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: Robert and Julie. I finished listening to the centaur episode. 625 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: Very interesting. Just wanted to pass on something regarding centaur sex. 626 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: John Varley UH in his science fiction novel Titan, explored 627 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: this very topic. Astronauts end up exploring a space station 628 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: and one of the species they meet our centaurs. These 629 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: centaurs have both human genitalia and equine genitalia, and the 630 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: two parts do not necessarily match, meaning a centaur with 631 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: a male human package can have a female equine package. 632 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: The author explores a lot of interesting topics in sexuality 633 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: in this novel. I highly recommend it. Uh. That is awesome. 634 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: John Varley UM. For those of you who are not 635 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: familiar with him, he uh wrote a lot of science 636 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: fiction back in the day. He also wrote one particular 637 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: story called Overdrawn at the Memory Bank. UH. And there 638 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: was a kind of awesome, kind of cheesy PBS adaptation 639 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: of this story of starring Rawl Rawle Julia back in 640 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: the day, and it was actually featured on Mystery Science 641 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: Theater three thousand Adams Family role Julia. Yeah, Yeah, that's 642 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: that raw Julia. Great actor. UM. Kind of a very 643 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: cheesy production, A lot of kind of matrix C type 644 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: special effects before we really have the ability to pull 645 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: that off. Um, but if you could see the strings 646 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: on them as they bent backward. Yeah, but it is 647 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: cheesy as it is. There are some factless ideas explored 648 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: in that, and so it doesn't come it's too much 649 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: of a surprise that John Varley also explored the topic 650 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: of a cent to our sexuality. So there you go, um, 651 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: and Tina's placement and and other equipment. There you go. 652 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: So it sounds like one worth checking out there. Thanks 653 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: Albert for bringing that to attention. And uh, if any 654 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: of you would like to discuss the topic of centaur 655 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: sexuality or horror with us, you know where to find 656 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: us on both at the same there is a lot 657 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: of overlap between us two topics. I would I mentioned. 658 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook where we are stuff 659 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, and you can find us on 660 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: Twitter where our handle is blow the Mind. Let us 661 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: know your experiences with horror fiction, horror movies, what scares 662 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: you and what are your thoughts on the the freight 663 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: process inside your mind? And you can always drop us 664 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: a line at blew the Mind at discovery dot com. 665 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff 666 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: from the Future. Join houstaf Work staff as we explore 667 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.